Slashdot Mirror
ZDNet Does Linux
Querty wrote in to tell us that
ZDNet's AnchorDesk page
(home of everyone's favorite person: Jesse Berst) is doing a whole
big Linux Thing today. Articles Include "Take the Linux Plunge",
"Resellers Key to Linux Success", "Essential Linux Tips" and
"Jon's Linux Toolkit", and a (ahem) poll. It looks like
Linux is mainstream now.
First Gates lies to my face, then Clinton... And now Jesse Berst!!! Didn't he write a while back that Linux is not going to make it into the office? At least something to the extent that Microsoft's grip is too tight to break even with a damn nice desktop. Or that it would be too hard to pull off. I remember that he got flamed pretty hard by those who came from slashdot. And now he is *helping* people who *sneak* Linux into their workplace to become legit? this is too much. I will never believe anyone in the world again.
mike@asdf.dds.org
Could someone tell me what this is. Is linux somekind of poor mans Windows?
And for some REALLY informed opinion, be sure to check out Berst's 'talkback' section. I'm sure it will be filled with "just wait for NT 2000!" and "Why is everyone picking on Microsoft?!?!"
Couldnt Microsoft Use the polls from ZDNet to
help show the popularity of Linux?
t's not a beginner's operating system. If you wanted to learn Unix, though-- which is a very valuable
skill-- Linux would be the way to go.
Hey, it's the truth.
But seriously, there are millions of business programmers who where orphaned when the software houses like Borland/Inprise, Symantec, and Lotus switched from DOS to WinDoze. They totally screwed up the programmability of the database products. The switch from ParadoxDOS/PAL to ParadoxWin/ObjectPAL has to be one of the all-time stupid ideas.
Something like Tcl/Tk, Python, or Perl is very usable for business rules and database programming.
ZD did a very good job explaining the use of DOS. With WinDoze they are totally lost, mostly because WinDoze is a lost cause. I'd like to see a coherent explanation of how to get these SQL databases going. Maybe ZD will light the fire you guys need.
You may not think highly of Anchordesk, but apparently other people do. The email announcement about the site's contents goes to more than a million people every day. I'm not sure, but I think it has the highest hit count on all of ZDNet.
And yes, the Linux story got top billing in the email this morning.
How to change the number of lines on your consle.
And how to grep.
After "a year of using Linux", they've only got 2 lame tips?
Oh, and there's something you may not like... Linux is like Unix!
What's not to like?
I can't imagine that a Slashdot reader hasn't
atleast heard of Linux. This is probably just a troll.
S
Sooner or later our worst enemies will be the ones steering Linux commercially.
C|Net, Berst, Ellison, and *shudder* Bill himself.
If that happens, I may start focusing my attention on hurd.
All they do is reprint mainstream Linux aticles that I already read here first.
finally, somebody has the sense to cut through all the bullshit and call a spade a spade.
i salute you, visionary!
:)
>The tortured voices of those foolish enough to buy MS stock.
Damn, I wish I'd been that foolish about 10 years ago. I could retire and devote my time to writing open source stuff.
Is this slashdot, or is this segfault? You seriously should consider cleaning that up a little and submitting it to segfault.org.
It's found in "Diary Of A...". Nothing, I repeat, _NOTHING_ can be further from the truth.
...his "Open"-Source Initiative and all that! :)
It's all Eric's fault
No it's an operating system that runs faster and better than windows, crashes less, and doesn't cost anything, but because of the typical gargantuan idiocy of the consumer is still a bit of a secret among engineers, scientists, and programmers. Unfortuately, it does take some modicum of intelligence to learn how to use and some investment of time that you will recover 100 fold once you do learn.
Wasn't it mentioned in the beta press release for the 2.2 kernel
I've never read the thing before. Every columnist sounded like "Jean" from The Onion: "My wacky staff told me about Linux!" Yecch.
Um, am I missing some years somewhere? I could have sworn it didn't start in 1984... Hmmm 1984. Big brother!!!
i think that u are on to something here. maybe Big Brother isnt late he is just part of underground unix develment...
How does Berst expect me to read his articles when I can't stop vomiting on the screen.
okay, that's it, i've had enouf of Linux's mainstreaming.. i'm moving on!! GOODBYE LINUX, HELLO PLAN9!!
:-(
(Linux becoming a part of the establishment.. who would've thunk it!!)
intresting quote: Linux is only free if your time is worthless. - JWZ
ROT IN HELL JESSE BERST!!!
Actually (except for a few naive idiots), the postings after Berst's column are almost all solidly in favor of Linux.
Can you believe he said that only seasoned UNIX veterans should attempt to use Linux? Talk about circular reasoning. You sure don't see him proposing that only experienced NT users should try NT.
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain."
we should make linux near to impossible to install.
:)
we're getting there
Can someone post the url for "Linux, the year in review" or something similar that appeared recently. It had Berst's contradictory quotes throughout the article.
Look in the Talkback section for that comment (or one with a subject like it).
The guy complains that it was going to take him 10hrs to download a gfx card driver.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
And apparently, unless you can use Xwindows, you can't use the internet. Looks like thats the dev teams of Lynx, Pine et al, out of a job then.
Linux according to Jesse Berst
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"I think it's great if you are willing to promote Linux to your boss. As
long as you are aware of the risk you are taking. The risk of getting fired."
(Feb. 16. 1998 http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_1774.
"Is a Linux takeover likely? Give me a break. Of course not."
(Jun. 23. 1998 http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2241.
"I personally think Windows NT will be the mainstream operating system
within a few years." [...] "My belief: Linux will never go mainstream"
(Sep. 9. 1998 http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2523.
"I've always said that Linux could become a serious challenger to
Microsoft's Windows NT."
(Sep. 28. 1998 http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_2587.
"How to Persuade Your Boss to Take the Linux Plunge"
(Jan. 21. 1999 http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_3011.
by Jesse Berst, Editorial Director, ZDNet AnchorDesk
Nope!, a troll is a dumb, evil, creature. To accuse M$ groupies / suits of being trolls is quite unfair (to trolls) as trolls don't know any better. M$ guys do.
Listen, junior, many slashdot readers (myself included) take "poor man's windows" as an insult.
I find it extremely hard to believe that somebody who reads slashdot has never heard of Linux. Go to www.linux.org and get a clue before saying nonsense.
(FYI: my www, ftp and mail server runs Linux).
Wasn't Micro$oft going to use Linux as a defence??? Now, knowing how in bed ZDNet is with M$, is everyone too naive to see M$'s hand behind it??? It is the same reason why Compaq is distributing Netscape with desktops and Linux with servers. And the same reason why HP is going to distribute Linux with their servers.
It wont truly be mainstream until you start seeing rubbish shareware visual basic and turbo-pascal applications popping up.
...
Then we'll know its made the grade.
What a future
Microsoft... I mean ZDPubs is just using Linux
to get the DOJ off of its...I mean, Microsofts
back. They even tried to use journal articles
to show things like users like Windows and its
'usability'. I'll bet that most of those articles
were from Microsoft controlled press, mainly
ZDPubs. For crying out loud, Ziff and Microsoft
had even started a company together for the sole
purpose of promoting the building of games for
the Windoz 3.2( 95 ) operating environment.
Trust Nobody!
Locutus
GNU != Linux
/bin/true, which they've seen fit to attach a copyright notice to, even though chances are pretty good, if someone else were to write a shell script to exhibit the exact same behavior, apart from formatting and copyright notice, it would be character for character the same. Yes, Sun and many other unix vendors have done basically the same thing, but you don't hear me proclaiming their products from the highest hills either.
I agree, the majority of boxes run a lot of GNU software. But let's do an inventory on my system:
Shell: zsh. Not GNU. Bash? Doesn't exist.
Editor: vim. Not GNU. Emacs? Doesn't exist.
Newsreader: trn. I don't think it's GNU.
/bin/true: 1k binary, non-GNU. (three lines of assembly)
/bin/cp: Not GNU.
Last I checked, most of Linux's system tools are not FSF software, although they do frequently come under a GNU license. Still, they're not part of the same project.
I could go on down the list, but most of the time, when there's a choice between a GNU tool and a non-GNU open source tool, I'll go with the non-GNU tool. As far as the tools where there isn't a choice, I really don't think that the FSF should be rewarded for having a monopoly in a given toolset. If their open source programs were clearly better than everyone else's, and if they were working closely with Linux, providing us with all the system tools we needed, and such, I'd consider GNU/Linux to be a fair title.
However, most of the system tools aren't FSF products, as I recall. They're known for making monstrosities like their
...when he stops babbling like this snippet: "Our GenX gadget guru Nicci
Noteboom persuades with promises..."
Gah.
Mind the Gap
"Oh Linux is baaaad! Stay away!"
"Linux will get you fired!!"
"I've always said Linux has a chance against M$"
"Here's how to get your boss to use Linux"
--
M$ Encryption
Isn't Jesse Berst the same one that wrote the infamous "Could You Get Fired for Choosing Linux?" article last year?
Now it's "Take the Linux Plunge? How to Persuade Your Boss"
Too savage.
Too aggressive.
No, that's Gnulix.
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
It doesn't matter whether Linux becomes mainstream or not. The important thing is that *we* have it. I've been burned in the past by commercial OS's that I spent buckets of time learning to program and creating software for (Amiga, primarily). Once the company is gone, development stops and there's *nothing* you can do about it.
Now I develop under Linux. The OS code is happily sitting here on my hard-drive. Nobody can take it away!
*That's* what Linux is about -- not trying to conquer the world. If, as a side-effect, we make the computer world a brighter place, so much the better.
And the funniest thing is that someone is accusing Berst of carrying a grudge against Microsoft! And being on "Linux payroll"! Ha!
Geez, people can be so clueless....
<Conspirisii>Unless, of course, you're part of a Microsoft conspiracy to make people abandon linux, out of disgust of the things we read at ZDNet. I know the thought of you suddenly jumping on the bandwagon fills ME with revulsion.</Conspirisii>
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
Determinedly and repeatedly denigrate Linux (and other OSes) as inferior and unusable products
Make statements about Linux et al that were either misleading or just plain wrong, either relying on anecdotal pro-MS propoganda or simply turning his opinions into his own personal 'truth'
... now do a complete about face on his Linux stance for no definite reason (though I'm sure we can all guess at a few!), a history of which is plainly summarized on the linux timeline.
If we extrapolate from his prior examples, it's reasonable to assume that nothing will change except his supposed stance on Linux... that is, there will be steaming piles of mis- and dis-information spread around, cheap shots taken at other OSes, and general 'mindless advocacy'.
Yes, it's nice to see mainstream press go pro-linux, but a mindless and inaccurate pro-linux stance is just as unacceptable as a mindless and inaccurate pro-MS stance. It's a pity that some anonymous-cowardly linux advocates see that 'any press is better than none', rather than 'good press is better than tripe'.
--
rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
"People will pay big bucks for the luxury of ignorance."
Sure he can change his mind anytime he wants. But changing one's mind when one has said somthing like (to quote Berst) "I think it's great if you are willing to promote Linux to your boss. As long as you are aware of the risk you are taking. The risk of getting fired," or "My belief: Linux will never go mainstream" is generally denoted by writing articles with an overall tone similar to "I'm sorry about trashing Linux, I was wrong and I admit it," rather than (again, to quote Berst) "Now I've always said that Linux could be a serious challenger to Windows NT."
Berst is so full of crap it's seeping out his ears.
If this is a real newbie, you're better off thinking of Windows as a rich-idiot's Linux.
(Windows is basically DOS with a GUI glued on, and DOS is basically UNIX with everything useful taken out.)
Anyone who -wants- to pay through the nose for less is welcome to do so. And, whilst you're at it, there's this tower in Pisa you might like - it's getting on a bit, and there's mild subsidance on one side...
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Jessey being well versed in the
To crazy?
-Ex-Nt-User
Yaknow, I've never liked Jesse Berst. He follows nothing but the latest "trend" although Linux isn't a trend.
What makes me absolutely disgusted by this jerk is the fact that he makes a point to declare what is right or WRONG (Linux, a year ago), and then he goes on, many months later, to follow up on what he has said was RIGHT (Linux, now) or wrong.
Does anybody with an IQ over 32 actually listen to what this hypocritical contradicting bastard says? It's poor journalism ("Linux sucks" - Berst, last year. "Linux r00lz!" - Berst, this year)... Well, apparently people DO listen to him, considering he still somehow has a job.
-mickey
To help those newbies:
www.linux.org
sunsite.unc.edu/mdw
www.stardivision.com
www.redhat.com
www.kde.org
www.gnome.org
www.cheapbytes.com
www.freshmeat.net
www.xnet.com/~blatura/linapps.shtml
OK So I'm somewhat biased... :)
"Linux sucks. But Linux sucks less." - JWZ
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
i did not know that linux has been around for 15 years... thank you zdnet for showing me the light...
and i quote:
"We've been using Linux for almost a year, and collecting the stories you need to read to get off to a good Linux start. You'll find out why it took Linux more than 15 years to turn into an overnight sensation -- and why it took us months to get past a basic Linux installation -- in Linux 101"
need i say more?
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
One of the links at the bottom of this article is a nice comparison of Linux and W2K. Now, it was 5 pages long, and I didn't feel like reading it, but I'm curious how they can compare a product that is here right now to a product that won't be here until at LEAST the year 2000 (probably later, if I know Microschlock). It boggles the mind. The masters of vapourware are at it again...
You'll find out why it took Linux more than 15 years to turn into an overnight sensation -- and why it took us months to get past a basic Linux installation
Um, am I missing some years somewhere? I could have sworn it didn't start in 1984... Hmmm 1984. Big brother!!!
judging from the poll and the link on slahsdot i think an inordinate number of slashdotters will have skewed the results. then again, it might help us get noticed - and maybe my company (almost 100% pro-m$ - they would if they could but a few key apps elude m$) - keeping my fingers crossed?
icq 11041108 GB/AT$ d++$ s: a C++ UL+@ P+ L++ E W+ N+ o K w O M V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t++ 5 X+ R- tv- b+++ DI++ D G+ e+++ h
linux is not a poor man's windows! firstly it is an actual operating system... oh, just look it up.
go to:
www.redhat.com
www.suse.com
www.linuxhq.com
that should get you started.
soapbox time: linux allows us to get away from hegemony and agony that is microsoft (well at least until we have to go back to work - then, linux makes me wish we were using it in the office since windows crashes several times a day)
overheard in the office:
a: hey did you know they have found a win-nt virus?
linux advocates in the office : what does it do? keep windows from crashing?
icq 11041108 GB/AT$ d++$ s: a C++ UL+@ P+ L++ E W+ N+ o K w O M V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t++ 5 X+ R- tv- b+++ DI++ D G+ e+++ h
jesse, get yourself an account and stop logging in as an ac.
icq 11041108 GB/AT$ d++$ s: a C++ UL+@ P+ L++ E W+ N+ o K w O M V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t++ 5 X+ R- tv- b+++ DI++ D G+ e+++ h
Doesn't matter - the article isn't being conspicuously advertised, so few people, if any, are going to see it. Funny, Berst's column is usually advertised fairly well - just not this time.
Even if Berst sucks, still, I appreciate the mere mention of Linux in mainstream press - but only if its in a place people will see it!
I don't imagine there are that many ZDNET readers who click on "AnchorDesk"...
Ya learn something (???) new everyday.
I never thought I'd see the day! Reading through the comments at the end of Jesse's article, his readers are now flaming him for being, of all things, ANTI-Microsoft!
:)
Jesse Berst anti-Microsoft? Yeah, right.
It's funny. People say that Linux advocates are fanatical, yet look at how some of these Windows freaks react when Jesse kind of hints that Linux might be, in some situations, sort of OK. I wonder how many of these people wear slip-on shoes for the sole reason that they find those string things on some shoes just a bit too complex.
(OK, maybe that last comment was a bit immature, but after reading through so much cluelessness, I really felt the need to vent.
Prepare yourself... you're about to get flamed... I will, however, not take that route. To answer your question, quite simply, no. Linux is a multi-user, unix-like system that is distributed for free. It is more stable than windows, runs faster than windows, and smells better than windows. I'm sure you'll hear a lot more.
-bc
the amazing bc
just another guy doing IT
webnaut, music junkie, holes-in-head
Exactly what is it that you're talking about?
It seems that you are incapable of understanding
sarcasm, using punctuation, etc. Since he was
being sarcastic, I'll skip pasting in his mentions
of PINE and Lynx. What does '94 have to do with
*anything* ? I'm 13 and I doubt anyone really
cares how old anyone else is here.
(in reference to their hit-and-run style of journalism)
If you have no accountability....you have no credibility...
Cheers,
Nick
Did I misread? Did Jesse say he's been using Linux? I know for a fact that is untrue as my brother works for ZD-NET and they don't use Linux on their desktops there in Washington State....give me a break....Maybe I misread....I've been up for 28 hours so that's possible...
Cheers,
Nick
My guess is this:
Microsoft has a secret production facility in the mountains of Tibet, provided to them by Gateway. They are quietly producing Amigas in multi-colored boxes.
At a prearranged time, to be signalled by the Berst-script announcing "I've always said 'Linux is the only real way to personal salvation, and now it appears I'm right, because JESUS NEVER LOVED FAT AGNES!", the Microsoft/Gateway marketing campaign kicks off, the neo-Amigas with "MS enhancements" flood the market under the banner "The only real alternative there ever was," the Berst script will start gradually revising its stance on the new Amigas, coyly hinting that a whole subterranean basement farm of Amigas is running the Pentagon.
Net result:
Linux is supplanted as the meme of the day by eager corporate lemmings sent off to numerous Amiga conventions for free who come back as members of an astroturf organization with the slogan "Amigas: Good enough for Andy Warhol, Good enough for Uncle Sam's Mailed Fist, Good Enough for Me."
Sometime in late 2000, just before the real millenium change, the Berst script will execute a terminal loop, Microsoft will quietly cease production of the Amigas, and the world will be plunged into a thousand years of darkness. The apocalypse won't happen, either, because Bill Gates will own controlling interest in the trinity.
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"A horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms"
But on the chance that this newbie is legit, be warned: if you don't know what Linux is, you are probably not ready to try it. Yet. Read up on Unix basics and lurk on /. and newsgroups a while first. I would hate for someone's first experience with Linux to be traumatic due to lack of basic knowledge.
Hmmm, MS announces that Win2K is going to be later than ever, ZDNet suddenly starts printing lots-o Linux articles.
No conspiricy -- just that outlets like ZD rely on NEW NEW NEW to sell their press, and right now Microsoft ain't delivering. So they go elsewhere.
Just like back when Windows 95 kept getting delayed and more delayed, and all of a sudden ZD started printing lots of OS/2 Warp articles. As soon as 95 came out, they dropped Warp press ASAP. I'd expect them to do the same with Linux as soon as Win2000 is out.
(BTW, there seems to be a divergence in opinion in Linux space. Slashdotters seem to think that the mainstream press sucks and they should go away. Others are writting them and compaining that their WordPerfect/Linux writeup was not as long as the MS Office one.)
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Well well.... Mr U-Turn himself, Jesse Berst, and that great journalistic institution ZDNet have decided to jump on the Linux bandwagon now that it's travelling at 300mph. I'm sure that once they've paid due homage to the current 'fad' they'll go back to their usual profound insights into the wonderful world of Windows...
Apparently Jon never thought of putting explore2fs into his toolkit. 0.17 is really stable and good for my uses, anyway.
I agree with that. Journalist have to be dramatic in order to get attention. I get a kick out of the thought that maybe all this was spurned by some minor staffer who was caught installing the new 2.2.0 Linux kernel on a ZDNET computer.
;)
As a side thought, I'd like to see ZDLabs do comparative performance testing. I suspect that they might find the results surprising.
I'm stunned
=moJ
- - - - - -
Member in Good Standing,
Well, this is just an idea.
ZDNet is a known lackey of Microsoft.
Microsoft is trying to prove that there are other options.
Can YOU figure it out?
They give the judge the "Anchordesk" to read,
then he says "No Monopoly" and then ZDNet says
"We were wrong. Linux is crap, use Windows"
Thats scary.
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
HAHA
God I hate ZDNet. Spammongers.
And why would I wanna use a "tool kit" made by
Jesse Berst?
Point taken:)
Don't be fooled by Jesse's sudden turn around, it is not sincere. He is still Microsloth's whore and doing what anyone in that profession would do that had sold their integrity along with their body, anything their pimp tells them to do.
The article is meant to show Jesse as a non biased journalist only wanting to promote the best product. But when we view the Talk Back section we see that the people are overwhelmingly at odds with his opinion. Jesse will eventually have to admit that the people were right and MS products are truly the best products available in the world.
What this two bit whore fails to disclose is that he decides what gets posted into the Talk Back section and what his relationship with his next door neighbor Microsloth actually is. I'm sure there is an article coming down the line sometime in the not too distant future praising how great Linux is and how it would take over the world if it were not for the fact that:
A) It makes your hair fall out
B) Makes you impotent
C) Causes your spouse to leave you for AS/400 salesperson
D) All of the above
This message is in no way meant to offend those who's profession is to provide a quality service for a reasonable price while maintaining their integrity and self-respect. Rest assured that I hold you in a much higher esteem than I do Mr. Berst. I just cannot think of a better or more appropriate word to describe this individual.
--
michaelrankin@netscape.net
Where there is no vision, the people perish:
I used to work for ZDNet Australia (http://www.zdnet.com.au), until I saw the error of my ways, and a piece of trivial information for you all is that their Web server is Apache, run on a FreeBSD box.
Brought to you by the author of such childrens' classics as "Some Kittens can Fly!" and "All Dogs go to Hell."