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More on the Russian E2K
volkris writes "Here's
an article about the Russian chip, the E2K. It's
the first I had ever heard about it, though later I went
back and checked the article earlier this week about the
Merced, the G4, and the E2K. This is just an overview of the chip. Looks interesting."
I dont remember the exact numbers, but I seem to recall that the SPECint and SPECfp values they were projecting were about 3x as fast. It could be the article is referring to this. But if they are, its still bad reporting because they certainly aren't very clear about it.
Yea, intel's engineers are brilliant - in your dreams. Speeking of third world countries, i am under impression US is, beeing in the 50-th place in education puts it right there in a top.
I really hope these guys get to build this thing. It could help the russian economy as well as give us a potentially kick butt chip ;-)
I am no Russian but I think that they did put Sputtnik (or what the hell they nicknamed it) on orbit by using slide-rule.
But in reality, it won't go anywhere unless these folks get somebody to invest in them. There's not enough money to go around if AMD buys the plans, then manufactures it, and then shares a large piece of the profits with starving soviet scientists.
Russian language also does not have a word for ;-)
sex, it was borrowed from the west
Did you know that in russian peasant is pronounced
krestianin, very close to Christian. Why is that?
Your statement just proves your ignorance, no educated beeing would even dream to make such a remark. By the way the second university i graduated from was the one in US. Laughable :)
Um...yeah. But I'm "too broke to build it."
Sorry...but I've heard this story too many times before under so many different names. Cold fusion, the 100:1 lossless codec, and now "the amazing Russian super CPU." And it's always "but we're too broke to build it" or "we're waiting to secure a patent before divulging anything," which then never happens.
Either build the thing and prove your point, publish in a peer-reviewed journal rather than some hype-blurbs in Wired, or shut up. Until then, it's all just unfounded rumors.
Everyone's made their little contributions too. Then you never hear the end of it. It's like if you drive through some small town and they have a sign "Home of [some famous person's name]" like it's their greatest achievment. Universities in the US have been far more productive and made many more innovations than it sounds like most people here are willing to acknowledge. They're like "Mweh, we've done stuff too, look at us, you guys haven't done anything!" and bitch and moan about ho wthey don't get noticed and everythone thinks the US is so great. That's because it is. People just don't ignore entire countries because they're biased or something. When you start pumping out technology after technology, people will take notice. Look at Japan. Many years ago, no one would have thought they would be what they are today.
Who else is reminded of these:
n .html t ml
http://www.theonion.com/onion3323/russianstatio
http://www.theonion.com/onion3112/mexicancopy.h
We all know why we don't run the fastest CPUs possible - we have to get people to buy them. That means software support, developer brainshare, and marketing partnerships (a la Intel/Microsoft).
The Western chip market does not produce the fastest chips - it produces chips people want to buy. It shouldn't amaze anyone that a directed research effort could produce something more impressive.
America has done a really good job in brainwashing its population. Its for this reason that they need to people to immigrate to the us, its because all the us people don't know how to think for themselves. Much of america's past and present beliefs are false. Did america create the first computer in 1945, false, germany did in 1938 (Z1). Shall I continue? It is in america's best interest to convince everyone that they themselves and only themselves are the best at everything in the world.
Henry Knorr wrote a little bit about this on the Macintouch site.
Babbage's computers were well before anything Germany did in 1938.
Russians are indeed very intelligent.
But what they are best at is PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS and brute force [mechanical not electrical] engineering. This E2K chip is an example of PSYOPS.
Recently, the Russians admitted that their thousands of nuclear weapons which they claimed to have vast numerical superiority over the US in the 70's was a HOAX -- they actually had far fewer than us -- but by claiming they had a vast amount they kept us at bay for many years. Likewise, they would frequently display "new" missiles on May Day each year -- re just recently discovered that these were frequently mock-ups made to scare the pants off of us -- and it worked.
Recently they came out with a new fighter which "outperformed" the F-22. Well, once the facts were uncovered it was a non-stealth (but they said stealth features could be added later -- NOT!), non-Mach 3 (they claimed Mach 3+), non-fighter (it was a prototype designed solely to test engine design). Once the light of truth met with Russian propaganda, there was very little substance to their "our fighter is better than your fighter" game.
Chernobyl was officially denied for weeks afterwards. Multiple other "incidents" never happened -- such as the Soviet sub currently docked which is "too hot to handle" from the radioactive debris.
The truth is not a way of life for Russians (their government, not the people -- people are pretty much the same everywhere). They are playing mind games [again].
Russians STOLE far more technology than they ever invented. Communism never inspired creativity and hard work, capitalism does! During the 80's the most sought after computers were micro-VAX's and Sun workstations -- they wanted our stuff because theirs was junk!
One does not go from creating Model-T's to Ferrari's in one decade. If they indeed have a new chip it's probably a lot closer to a 486 in terms of performance than it is to an Alpha, PowerPC, or Pentium III. They lack the deep pockets it takes to perform the engineering miracles of the US chip manufacturers. Solid chip design takes $$$ and lots of them -- not a couple spare rubles.
Think about it, it the chip were that great, wouldn't they sell the manufacturing rights to IBM (who has plenty of fab capability and research/investment capital) for $10B. It would put the Russians on the technology map and give IBM a super-chip. But it hasn't happened...
It's a HOAX!
I don't know why everyone references the PIII. Personally i hate the arch., and would much rather go with an ALPHA, (even though Compaq did buy the comp). besides-have you been to www.bigbrotherinside.com? errr maybe it's .org i foret :|
The Elbrus crowd is for real. I saw one of their big iron boxes in 1993 when I was in St. Petersburg on business. We forget that those people are very good mathematicians, scientists, and engineers. It was their crummy economic and political system that couldn't make full use of their talents.
I am totally agree on this one.
,my choice was IT/Multimedia.
.One of the reasons why USA is so succsesfull is because they have people from around the world(the best people )are coming to live and work there for the better quality of life .They give they talant and the knoledge to the country who pays them well for it and provides them with a secure type of living.
My story line is very similar to yours.
I moved to Austaralia afted I graduated high school in Moscow(the school was under supervision of MFTI(rus)
on arival I went back to school here to catch up
with my english.After 2 years I went to uni
well my point is Russia has a lot of talant,and I mean a lot.i belive that Russia has a lot more talant than USA
I don't want to retype the text of the guy who written "hear the russian roar" because this exactly what I mean and feel as well.
I'm sertain that there will be a lot of other people who knows that I'm right!!!!
No offence but the first real computer as we know it today was made in the US. We were the first to make the a bomb and the first on the moon. We are not morons as you may think. You can not judge are edu system from one or two schools. I am a student at a school in the us. There math is years behind where mine is. Sure I may be in there classes but I learn on my own and am proud of that fact. For people to say that the US has no good programmers I ask why are you so ignorant ? Also we are not the ones blowing peoples heads off over stupid things such as land or religion. The united states does a lot for the world in all parts. We may not be all good but we sure as hell are able to keep are cool and sort things out. We have kept the peace in areas all around the world, we made the UN, and we have done many more. Also moron the US system doesnt go into ww2 till 8 or 9th grade. In most of 8th grade you learn about the civil war and the rebuilding years. You brush apon the 1910s and 20s. Also you touch apone many other subjects and maybe learn a little about ww2 but nothing in depth. Are edu is flawed but all the systems are. Also at least when i was in 8th there were two groups the 1 groups and the 2 groups 1s were above avg 2s were avg. I was in a 1 group your sister may be in a 2 group. (gen 1 groups here are about 1/2 to 1 year ahead of there 2 counter parts.
You contradict yourself. If students lack self-esteem they are usually apathetic and to depressed to want to learn. Thus, self-esteem is important to learning. While I agree with you that the US education system isn't very good, it isn't the worst in the world either. The problem is that the standards expected from students are VERY low, and so students perform at those low standards. I'm in highschool right now, and unless you are taking an AP (college level) class, the classes are a joke. In history I've learned almost nothing. In 4 years of english, I've probably learned 1.5 years worth of material (during junior year I had a good enligsh teacher). I guess part of the problem is that pay for teachers is horrible.
Anyway, I guess one beneficial side effect of such low standards is that students get to do other things besides work. Which I personally feel makes them better students. Life isn't all work.
I agree, the diversity education stuff does suck. I try to ignore most structurally imposed requirement stuff, and some how get by anyway.
Not only has the US built the A bomb, but they
also used it two blow up TWO Cities full of
civilians. Talk about evel empire. By the way,
since the US news coverage is so substandard, you
might at least listen to those who lived outside
US for their opinion on the US.
PS. don't call me moron, its rude, and it should
have been taught to you in grade school.
Wow. Things have really gotten touchy on this one. As an American who has never left the country, I would like to make the following observations...
America is not comprised of an indigenous population of people (with the exception of Native Americans). We are a nation of immigrants. For most Americans, this means that we arrived here just 2-8 generations ago. The thing that makes us American is our culture, and I'll admit that it is not without its faults.
Yes, we produce a lot of stupid movies, but people outside America pay good money to watch them too. Don't ask me why. France also ramps out a lot of pointless cinema, in my opinion. It may not be as overtly stupid, but it's just as annoying. America doesn't own the market for forgettable media.
We have some stupid people. I doubt that there are any nations that don't posess such a population. We also have some very brilliant people. Rock stupid or Einstien smart, recent immigrant or not-so recent immigrant, we are all American.
We are a successful nation. I'm no economic or political science genius, but I blame this on our well organized and democratic system of government. For all the bitching we do about taxes and bureaucrats, it is this system that forms the needed infrastructure for American business to operate, and allows us the freedon to express and implement new ideas.
We are a diplomatically confused nation. Before the collapse of communism in the former Soviet Union, the world was an easy, bipolar place to operate in. Countries were either adversaries of us or them. Now, we have the sole role of superpower, and no clear objective, leading us to do inane things like bombing whatever middle easter country annoys us, and inviting ourselves everywhere.
As for Russia, I admittedly don't really know any Russians, but I have great respect for them. Those that I have come across in the media are very intelligent and practical. From what I've read, Russian education is intense. I've been taught that, after WW2, Stalin wanted a nation of engineers and scientists, and placed a high emphasis on technical fields and education, fostering the development of some great minds. I view Russia as a major power waiting to redevelop under more modern government. If I may may also drop some great Russian Names... Shoshtakovich, Stravinsky, Tchiakovsky, and Kachaturian.
I want to see Russia develop into a thriving country. I don't want to see it slip into extermism under people like Zhirinovsky.
Anyway, enough ramblings. Russians are cool, and Americans aren't all ignorant pigs. In closing, I'd like to add that I find nothing sexier than a woman with a Russian accent. yeow!
You can't judge America on an idealogical perfect country. Comparing it with other countries in the world, we are saints and benevolent peace keepers. Of course, America has many skeletons in its closet, and since we were born not to logn ago, we took our part in imperialism a little while after everyone had gotten over it. I would just like to reassure and remind you that without America you would be speaking German right now or be conforming with society. America saved the world's ass twice (I & II, no arguing it) and rescued the world from comunism. I severely hate all these ingrateful, arrogant, stuck-up, europeans who think they are vastly supperior to Americans. I can assure you that in America we really don't go around boasting our accomplishments unless we are disparaged or pushed too. That's the quality in America I like the most, arrogance and aristocray is limmited.
Every level of education beforethe university totally sucks in the US. It doesn't "lag", it is a total fake. But the universities are *very* good.
I'm not american in the sense of "born in the US".
While the capitalist model looks for the most cost effective way of production + return on investments, sometimes good projects which are more resources hungry never gets anywhere. The E2k chip is a perfect example of this. While the initial stages of R&D, and human resources(man-power) was so expensive back then, that western companies are unwilling to explore it.
My question is how come, Intel, Compaq AMD and etc...., never got around exploring the oppotunity to get hold of this chip design and produce it? Surely, their inteligence network and resource are much better than the average people. The point I am getting to is, are we held back for no other reason but lots of profits. Any thoughts???
When forming an argument on an issue, it's best to appear as if you are being objective and rational. Is it rational to group an entire population of 270 million people under the heading "stupid"? Why would the governemnt oragnize such an effort to undermine its own citizens, and then bring in new ones to counter this very plan?
The phrase "black and white thinking" comes to mind after reading your post.
-A brainwashed American
Christ, where the hell did you go to school? Learn how to use a god damn contraction.
god are europeans really this arrogant. Damn ingrateful bastards don't realize we saved their asses twice and three times if you count communism. AND YES WE DID SAVE YOUR ASSES SO PLEASE STFU.
As for minor historical inaccuracies, I can assure you that these are generally made by ignorant people. Computers as they are now, were for the most part developed in America. So again, STFU. I can also reassure you that in school we have no Brainwashing 101 or America is the Greatest IV.
History in highschool is usually divided in half between ourselves and the rest of the world. Which to me, doesn't seem unfair. 2 years of American history, two years of World History. Even though both only take a superficial look at the matters, they provide decent sufficient background knowledge.
You can't go to America and base your opinion of their entire education system on the fact that you went to a crappy school. America's education system isn't really as bad as it would seem. It's just more diverse than other parts of the world. It has schools easily comparable to that the rest of the world has to offer, and then some that just plain suck. Just depends on how hard you look. Sad thing is, most people don't seem to care about their education. But it's there, for those that want it.
Sorry, since your plugging UVa, I gotta plug mine too - GO William and Mary! (Thomas jefferson WENT here!). Nothing against UVa(I'm out of state and I was accepted at both), but W&M kicks, we do just as good a job as UVa(if not better;) ) but we do it with A LOT less $$$, as Richmond spoils you & VT!
Respectfully,
Kevin Christie
kwchri@maila.wm.edu
Americans suck, Europeans suck, everyone sucks, every country is crap. Yes, some america is nice, but most of it is horrible, and many of the people are very full of themselves.
Here is a TYPICAL, dumb, 6-pack american, folks. Your involvement in ww1 and 2 was pathetic. You said we, russians, would speek German? Here is a free clue for you, dork - we lost 27 mil. people! And your prosperity is based on russian blood and bones. The fact that english language still exist is because our fathers saved your father's sorry asses from german slavery. You, illiterate americans, are so ignorant!
There is really no precedence in history as why country with such a dumb population beeing so prosperous.
Sorry, just couldn't hold it any longer.
Actually the Russians were the first to get to Berlin. And you're being disrespectful to the British that endured months of air strikes until you finally decided to do something (only because of Pearl Harbor). This is typical. Did you see one single European in Private Ryan (the Spielberg movie) ? I guess that doesn't count as boasting, ha ? Millions of Russians died in WWII. We owe much more to the Russians than to the USA (i mean the soldiers and people not to the goverment). My country (Portugal didn't take part in WWII but we did in WWI so you're being disrespectul to all that died in that war too. And also, i hate when the Americans think they rule the world and attack some country without the approval of the UN (after all, it is the UNITED nations, isn't it? ).
Ever heard of Nazi Germany? Well they spent millions on undermining their own citizens. Now lets use rationalism and "objectivity". Why would a government spend millions in propaganda if there is nothing to gain? There must be something that they want if they will spend so much and go at just great lengths to propagate its own people. It's simple. Take the old Taoist saying, "Keep their bellies full and their heads empty".
I think you're using "black and white" thinking, if you think the US government has nothing to gain by undermining its own citizens. They sell you lies all the time, they tell you only what they want you to know, they hide the facts, they spin things into their favor. Why would they not want to undermine their own citizens?
Here's some numbers on Allied forces in WWII. Looks like the USSR took the most losses. I guess that would mean we owe the Russians the most. They also lost about 60 million civilians. Of course Soviets were conditioned to die by the millions. In the early 30's Stalin made farms state controlled and 7 million people died of starvation. Sounds smart to me.
Nation Peak strength Battle deaths
Australia 680,000 23,365
Belgium 650,000 7,760
Canada 780,000 37,476
China 5,000,000 2,200,000(1)
Denmark 25,000 3,006(2)
France 5,000,000 210,671
Greece 414,000 73,700(2)
India 2,150,000 24,338
Netherlands 410,000 6,238
New Zealand 157,000 10,033
Norway 45,000 1,000
Poland 1,000,000 320,000
USSR 12,500,000 7,500,000
UK 5,120,000 244,723
United States 12,300,000 292,131
Yugoslavia 500,000 410,000(2)
Another interesting fact 72% of all the ordanance dropped in WWII was dropped after the invasion of Normandy. One could then deduce that US had a large part of that number.
The problem with the cold fusion fiasco was the fact that the scientists responsible went for the fame before going through peer review. Then when the peer review finally started, some time *after* all the big news stories, only a few people could verify their results, and most still debated what was actually going on.
UVA SUCKS!
Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi!
Tech Tech VPI!
Solarex, Solari
Polytech Virginia
Ray Rah VPI
Team Team Team!
.. with those sexy russian female spies...
Oddly enough, in WWII, I don't think the allied powers would've had a chance against Germany if they hadn't opened a front on the Russians. Interesting how not only did the russians save the world in WWII, but how they made some really fast processors or something.
What makes people buy into conspiracy theories? Is it just that they don't fully appreciate the amount of effort that must be expended to accomplish what they claim? It's not a stretch to imagine that disconnected elements of the government could issue false and misleading information (the military comes to mind), but a unified nationwide strategy of brainwashing is a major undertaking. Who organizes it? Who are the head decision makers? How did the decision to implement this grand plan develop? Who administers it? Surely, it must take a lot of people. Why do they do it? With so many people working on the covert objective, how is its presence kept secret? When did all of the millions of American journalists decide to cooperate with such a plan? When are they told of it? The implications of this whole idea are just staggering. By way of proof, you throw out a single quote and a vague comparison to Nazi Germany. I doubt that everyone in Germany was brainwashed during the Nazi regime, anyway. Surely, they weren't getting the truth, but they weren't fully in the dark. Besides, 1930s Germany was a much smaller population, with a state controled media, and more primitve channels of communication. On many levels, the two aren't comparable.
There's a principle I'm sure we're all aware of called Ockhams's razor. Given two scenarios, one relatively simple and straightforward, and one convoluted and complex, you're usually correct to assume the simple explaination. Thus, evolution and the heliocentric view of the solar system eventually won out over angels pushing the planets around the earth, and god incessantly creating new species. The same priciple leads us, after a careful consideration of the observed facts, to see that Freemasons don't really run the world, aliens haven't been abducting thousands of people, and (some people will disagree) Oswald indeed acted alone.
This all boils down to the core of thought... our view of reality. Everyone grows up exposed to different beliefs and events. These make all of us irrational in some way. One man grows up to be racist, one woman grows up believing that the alignment of the planets and her birthdate affects her daily life in predictable ways, and one boy is raised in the Jewish faith. We all have our biases and beliefs.
This said, it is up to each of us to decide how deep we want to probe, what realities we will accept, and whether or not we are indeed capable of doing so.
Admittedly, the name has been bastardized. We should say "The United States of America," but it's much simpler to simply say America (or U.S.).I'm sure other countries in the Americas object, but they don't have the phrase "America" in their name, so we feel justified.
>America saved the world's ass twice (I & II, no arguing it)
:)
Um, you're still in High School, aren't you? You have a case for WWII, but we entered WWI pretty late, really. It probably would have been resolved without our intervention, though perhaps a few years later. WWI -did- do great things for our position in world politics, though. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you.
>That's the quality in America I like the most, arrogance and aristocray is limmited.
(I'll refrain from correcting your spelling). I'd hardly say it's limited. Belong to many country clubs? Tried going to a $50/plate restaurant without a tie?
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be American than anything else (When was the last time a war was fought on _our_ soil? Oceans on both sides does wonders for strategic advantage, as does having neighbors like Mexico and Canada.) Europeans might have that "snobby" image, but that's hardly fair to make sweeping generalizations like yours. It's really just the French that suck.
Pathetic? Heh. No.
And I highly doubt the Germans, had they won, decided to make all of Russia speak German. That's hardly worth the trouble.
Oh, BTW. The way the Russians flip-flopped sides in WWII for the sake of getting some little Japanese islands is pretty pitiful.
Then again, I'd rather have the Russians as allies in a war than the Italians.
Yes it's a 2 times faster. But the chip itself can be 1.5 times faster too. add this up and you will get 3x...
>Lomonosov
>Mendelyev
>Tsiolkovskiy
>Zhukovski
>Kurchatof
>Saharof
>Korolev
OK, maybe it's your spelling, but I only recognized Mendelyev. Can you give us some hints on the other guys (gals?).
> However, if you allow English to have 'fuck', then Russian has 'yebat' :-)
AFAIK fuck comes from German.
So english looses again
only thing your post shows is your lack of knowledge about russian history & ww2.
lenin died at least 10 years before start of ww2
Rescued the world from communism ? If you have a brain (I don't rely on this, in fact), you'll be able to understand the cold war was an artefact of a corrupted governement to create a new kind of US citizens, called the **base-stupid-citizen-who-think-Me-and-my-country- are-the-best-in-the-world**. Communism is not good (far from it), but USA didn't do anything against anything : USA have allways protected its own interest, and used to use some inexistant ennemies to show its big insane d*ck. You did not enter in the WWII until the Japanese guys flamed you...
We're not ingrateful, arrogant, whatever you think we are. You grand'father, if he cames in France, would know it. You, no. You are only the stupid child of a child of a proud guy.
> Thats the quality in Ameria I like the most,
> arrogance and aristocracy is limmited.
Well, this last sentence is not arrogant at all, I believe... *You* (not Americans) suck, and will probably get the first place on the 'Most Stupid Guy' tournament.
I'm not russian or US citizen but I lived three years in the US and I know some of the history of WWII.
The fact that so many russians died its due to the fact that their country was invaded by land forces and their territory ocupied by the germans (nazis) who though of russians as less humans and murdered vast portions of the population.
I f you were a little smarter you would realize that if the US were to be invaded by a land force that hated your guts you bet there would be millions of deaths and it would have nothing to do with incompetence. I'm not friend of the comunist (far from it), but I do admire a lot more the russian military than the US army, they have never fought a "fair" war against an enemy that match the strengh.
Yes, there is no doubt we may have lost the war, here in Europe. But one things for sure, the tide was turning until America became involved, before that you were happy to give us enormous loans to help our war effort, we have not paid these off to this day.
So thankyou for everything your wonderful country did.
( I am British )
Your country makes movies in which it defeats those arogant enough to become the rulers of the world, and yet the actions your country takes in this world only illustrate that it aspires to be that ruler of the world. Believe it or not, US will never be the boss over Russia. Russians value their independance just as much as you do.
Making an x86 isn't that hard actually. And an EPIC type instruction set should be even simpler. I think you believe the hype a little too much.
I think you'd find that America has done well by funding first generation immigrants who were happy to get the oppurtunity to turn their dreams into reality. I'm not dissing the US. That's a good strategy. BUT that's not quite the same as "americans kick everybody else's ass".
I just want to note, that in millitarized Russia
... surprising. And
there was a big difference between "for people"
and for "millitary guys".
For this reason they stole IBM's mainframes and
they buy a lot of PCs and workstations from west
(or Taiwan), but for MILLITARY purposes they
always used and continue to use their own
supercomputers. In soviet system of economics
they couldn't allocate resources for manufacturing
goods for people, but everything millitary needed
was readily available. And their computers were
cool. Did you hear anything about BASM or Elbrus
in detail?
They did use OOO execution and register renaming
and a lot of other stuff, but all that was kept
in secret as it was considered crutial millitary
technology neccesary for missles. Who launched
the first sattelite? Who was the first man in
space? Russians.
Now that the soviet government collapsed those
engineers are left in the middle of nothing and
try to feed their children by selling their skills
and knowledge to anybody who can pay anything.
Of course their claims are
they will need a good compiler to exploit this
CPU, but do you know that most of SUN's compilers
are written by Babaian's team?
Yeah, well the entire logic system was largely laid out by Greek philosophers, and since computers use formal logic (AND/OR/XOR/NOT), computers are therefore largely Greek in origin. Or not.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Posted by Bocharn:
I hope they will get enough financing (it would not be bad even if money will come from the West. Knowing the falling apart Russian economy, there's no gov. money for such projects) and manufacture the chip.
Posted by Mr. Assembly:
The say that it is a "paper design". Hey, that's like saying that because I hang out in a donut shop, I'm a cop.
It's a good thing though. If they were to move away from their vacuum tube technology there would be nobody that our FAA could buy vacuum tubes from. We need to keep our air traffic system up and keep our airplanes from droppng out of the sky.
Posted by Nr9:
SANT PYETYERSBORG TEKNOLOGICHESKIY UNIVERSITY RULZ
'Father of Soviet supercomputing' !? Everything I have heard and seen said that Soviet Supercomputing was a smuggling operation. Bring in the fastest workstations they could get from the west. I just find it very hard to believe. Over the past few days this unheard of group has taken credit for inventing pipelining, superscaler chips, EPIC, parallel processing, and some compiler technology. Just a little too good to be true.
Look at the efforts AMD, Cyrix, NexGen, etc. put in to cloning 486 and pentium chips, now some new group from a country that is practically third world is going to beat them to the punch with an IA64 design that is 2-3x faster?? There was a lot of top tallent, money and work put into just matching Intel's processor speed.
It just doesn't smell right to me, they might have a design but their performance claims are lies. Their claims to have invented a lot of that technology are also suspect in my mind. This kind of thing has happened before, even Exponential boasted of inflated performance numbers, they didn't exactly take their investors money and run but they didn't deliver anything. They may have a top chip team but not good enough to beat Intel by that much, Intel (regardless of what you think of their products) has some brilliant designers.
Either build the thing and prove your point, publish in a peer-reviewed journal rather than some hype-blurbs in Wired, or shut up. Until then, it's all just unfounded rumors.
s/Wired/Slashdot
I'm an American, but I really dislike it when people go off spouting complete nonsense like this. To go and say that Russians are all liars and thieves is crap. Stop with the sweeping generalizations and get a clue.
Do you honestly think the US has never told a lie? Do you think the US has never stolen technology or used foreign intelligence like you describe?
The process of giving your enemy misleading information about your abilities and arsenals is called "counter-intelligence". That's right, it has a name. Every major nation does it. It's not like we all stood up and gasped when it was discovered that Russia was actually MISLEADING us. My God! They told a lie!
Perhaps you should educate yourself about some of the stuff your own country does before you judge others.
Ah, but I think he's ahead of you there, he's attributing low educational standards to malice. :-)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Do you have a reference for your cold fusion claims?
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I'd just like to point out that the vast majority of the technology in use today was created in United States-based universities.
Where is it?
In short words, E2K is very different from other CPUs on the market. The other part of the core technology is a heavily optimizing compiler, which Elbrus people were developing for something like 10 years.
Also what is interesting E2K will both interpretate & recompile IA32 programs (unlike Merced), putting them in E2K form back to the disk. Dont ask me how. Also UltraSparc CPU was developed with help of Babayan team, and in general his company has done a lot of work for Sun. Now they are maintaining SunOS, for example.
Lots of things look great in simulations.
This is the most vaporous of Vaporware.
I'm amazed anyone even noticed this stuff....
I have a plan for world peace, eliminating
hunger, ethnic conflict, overpopulation,
old age, obesity and lonely Friday nights.
Just waiting for funding and implementation.
Well... Which country launched the first satellite? Which country had the first human in space? You say that the US stand for peace, what about Chile, the US supported Pinochet, the US sold waepons the Iran when they where in war, killing civilians.
What I want to say with this is:
No country is "perfect", most countries does both bad and good things.
Yeah.... And we built your contry.
"Diefendorff said the Russian data indicates the .18-micron process
E2k chip -- fabricated in a
- would run at 1.2 GHz. By contrast, Diefendorff
estimated that the Merced processor, fabricated
in the same process, would run at 800 MHz, three times slower."
WHAT? 1.2 GHz is 50% more than 800MHz.
It's reporting like this that makes me doubt the rest of this article.
Cum grano salis, friends.
US Elementary and Secondary education does lag, but the best universities in the world are in the US.
:)
MIT, CMU, CalTech, Berkely, Stanford, all the Ivies, zillions more. 'Course CMU's the best
It's no surprise there are a lot of foreign nationals who come here for university. My friend Mathilde est d'origine francaise and she agrees, US universities are far better and more rigorous.
I recently heard a talk about NASA technology in the good old days.
Apollo went to the moon on a slide rule as backup.
There were some amusing situations. I think it was Skylab, had 2 machines duplicating all calculations. The first one that cought the other one in a difference turned it off -- hehe, no guarantee whether the right or wrong computer wins.
Hell, the original incarnation of the shuttle had --you guessed it--IBM 360's. And ferrite core RAM. Wow.
If this isn't all hype, all the attention will surely bring someone in with some cash. The question is, will it be someone with the technology (lots of people suggest AMD. It would be farout) who can make this happen relatively quickly. (AMD is building a new fab in Dresden i think, i think it's even .18 u, get me if i'm wrong).
:). Maybe k7 will be good.
But this will still be a chip competing against much later revision Merced's than the initial ones. This won't appear for 2-3 years at _best_.
Anyone else notice Intel's initial chips suck? The first (was it klamath?) PII's were 66MHz frontside, the first pIII's don't have the new cache, the first Merced's aren't so hot either. Ohwell. Mmmmm, alpha.
BTW I'm not that impressed by anything I've seen from AMD. Yeah, their K6's run applications ok. But I have yet to see a k6 w/a good FPU. I'm greedy. I want it all. I want nice caches AND a nice FPU. Give me a celeron450a
I don't claim every university is excellent. And I certainly think that with few exceptions the best US universities are private (which just may be the secret, since most other countries don't even have a private university system).
There are a hell of a lot of American state universities (at least 1 in each of 50 states), but most are at best mediocre, except perhaps in a few areas. There are still a couple of great state schools: UVA (go VA!, founded by TJ), UCBerkeley, UMichigan (aerospace), Georgia Tech. But the best ones are private.
BTW the best public school I have seen, and one of the best overall right up there with CMU, MIT, etc. is Technion, the Israel Institute of Technology. Where you should speak Russian to get anywhere.
I have quite a number of friends with Celeron 450a's :) They're all very happy people.
:).
Unfortunately I understand the celeron went out of production a week ago last Thursday. There may be a few places w/one or two left, buy'em while you can.
From what I've seen and heard (discounting unrelieable reports) Celeron366 will run at 464 or something but that's over I think an 83MHz bus, so the PCI is at 42MHz and no peripherals will work. The Celeron366 will not even POST at 550, don't bother
Really a shame Intel had to kill that one, here we were getting something for nothing. My @$$ overclockers played no part in their decision to pull the chip. Grr.
I recall from the first article that the specint
:)
and specfp were both significantly higher than the clockrating would indicate. Perhaps that's where that 3x comes in?
Either way, if the thing is real, some US company would make an enormous amount of money by buying up the rights to manufacture it. AMD, maybe?
Knowing the russion sence for 'community service', perhaps can we persuade them to GPL the chip-design.
It would be a great way to expande the 'open source' idea into other field!
...Nothing like an article about Russia (or any foreign country) designing some super cool sounding uber-technology to bring out the American nationalists in the crowd.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Aha! No wonder I didn't recognize
"Saharof". We spell it "Sakharov" over
here.
Point well taken. The Russians should be
proud of their accomplishments, especially
the technical ones.
Then again, as an American, I may be a
minority -- I know what the Battle of Kursk
was, I've heard of Prof. Kolmogorov (chaos
theory dude), and I know who Sergei Federov
plays for. 8-)
(ooh, a smiley. How uncool here. Well, bite me.)
-----
".sig,
Good volley. *Thwak!*
Unlike most Americans, I know a thing or 2 about Russian history (liberal arts colleges with good technical departments *rule*).
I've heard all about Nicholas, Alexandra, Rasputin, Lenin, Trotsky, Frunze, Dzerzhinsky, Bukharin, Zinoviev, Stalin, the kulaks,
the kolkhozes and the harvests of sorrow, Kandinsky, Malevich, the Reds and Whites, the Purges, the Yezhovshchina, the Nazi-Soviet Non-aggression Pact, Stalingrad, Leningrad, the defense of Moscow, the Berlin Airlift, the Thaw, the Master and Margarita,
Gagarin, the Doctors' Plot, Krushchev, etc. etc.
Russia has a fascinating history and has many many interesting people within its borders.
And they have many acheivements to their credit (not the least of which is
saving the world from unspeakable evil).
But I have to ask: Why is Russian history so.. well.. sad and awful?
By comparison, Irish history reads like a day at the amusement park..
-----
".sig,
that has produced some of the humankind's greatest
writers, musicians, mathematicians, and
scientists. Dostoevsky, Horowitz, Sakharov; just
to name a few.
They are more than capable of formulating such a
chip design. Fabricating it is another matter.
You ought to be careful to distinguish between
Soviets and Russians. They are not the same.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
While the details and performance numbers are unknown I wouldn't dismiss the news as a lie. Russians (Soviets) do have some top minds working for them. For how long is a different matter. They seem to be leaders in many military related areas like
I guess every country has their strong points.
I've been to russia and I know quite a few russians. True this is a very poor country right now, but you must have FORGOTTEN the sheer terror that they struck into the hearts of every american during the cold war. It was because the US had a valid fear that the Soviet union might be technically superior to the US. Many of them are smart, and They do more with less. In fact MOST OF THE WORLD does more with less. I wouldn't be suprised if the chip that they have presented is as good as they say if not better. You have WAY too much pride in american companies. During the cold war, We did just as many shady things as they did ( if not more ) my grandfather was in the government during that time, and he said that his worst fear was what those smart russian scientists had cooking in their lab. Of course it never comes to light in the USA, but many technological advances that Americans take credit for are Russian/Non US in origin. we wern't neccisarily always the innovators, we did our share of imitating as well. I think that you are just picking on russia while their down. In Russia, you can't afford to make blown up claims like you can in the US because the government would have your ass on a skewer if you came up short. More power to this Soviet company and I hope that they find funding.
like a man without arms, you can't hang......
I'm an american, and
I think my foreign friend had a point
your spelling stinks
your history is substandard
you ARE a moron
and you do suck
get a life
get a real education.
like a man without arms, you can't hang......
As an american, If i could apologize for all americans, I would, but some really need to be taken out to pasture and shot. Many of us have such a one-sided view of history and everything else for that matter, that I seriously wonder if anyone knows WHAT THE F!@# is going on in the rest of the world. I am dreadfully ashamed that we as a 220 year old nation (the new kid on the block) try to tell civilizations that have existed for thousands of years how to conduct their every day lives. Forgive my fellow American's stupidity, but realize that there is A LOT more where that came from. Also realize that not all of us are that utterly stupid ( I'm talking about the thread that you replied to)
like a man without arms, you can't hang......
Not only is the US behind in math; judging by the AC to whose post I am replying, it is also behind in ENGLISH!
:)
My GOD man! The original Russian poster had better English skills than you do! When you stand up for your own country's educational system, make sure you do not embarrass it in the process.
As for the accomplishments of the US, no one will dispute what you've said. However, the Russians were the first in space. They were the first with a permanent station out there. Does the name Tesla ring a bell? How about Sikorsky?
Point being, every country has it's flashes of brilliance. The US has an incredible amount of resources, and this is why it attracts so many foreign students into it's graduate programs and it's think-tanks. It's a quality of life thing, nothing more, nothing less. This is the land of opportunity for people who are willing to work hard - and a land of welfare for those who are not.
Americans are not genetically superior - as is implied in many "we're better" postings. That kind of thinking is what got the Germans in trouble.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Well, the Saturn V rocket, (The one that launched all Apollo moon missions, and Skylab) was designed exclusively with slide rules, as were the SR-71 and X-15, the fastest airplanes ever created.
Hell, my calculator has more processing power and RAM than the space shuttle, and my watch has more than the Apollo lunar lander!
Almost everything designed before 1975 was made using only a slide rule.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
>While we all know Hz aren't directly related to processing power, 1.2 GHz is not 3x faster than 800 MHz.
1) This design is most likely real. If it wasn't, they would be stupid to expect any funding just based on their claims. Not likely considering that they are professionals.
2) It will get sufficient funding if its confirmed to be real. Not necessaritly from Russia or from US.
3) Ok, its fast, its real, there are 2 questions left, how much time will it take to make and how expensive will it be? If it's 3x faster than merced but 10x more expensive, everybody will just get dual or quad merceds. BUT there's something worth considering here: design cost is alot less in Russia than it is in US right now. This may result in E2k actually being cheaper than Merced.
This might be very cool in a few years..
woot.. Simpsons time
-- ATTENTION: do not read this sig. It doesn't say much.
Education in much of the US is excellent. I imagine that your 50th rating probably comes from some statistic on percentage of GNP spent on public higher education.
Education is still a field where the USA is a leader. If you don't believe me, go to a major university and look around, you will see a great number of students who pay huge sums of money to attend US schools.
Dude, you speak in ignorance. The "50'th place" figure is very real; it was based on some international testing of school (not university) students, so it reflects knowledge and not education spendings. However, I think it is old -- I believe US is somewhere in the teens right now (which is still pretty pathetic).
Bottom line is, US public education sucks royally. As far as industrial countries go, it is very weak. US universities are good, but think -- people get to universities by acquiring a lot of knowledge in schools first.
I go to a graduate school in a major university. I would guess that at the very least, 1/3 of students here are foreigners (and they do not pay any money to attend UMass). This, if anything, speaks detrimentally about the quality of US education -- it implies that US, rather that raise their own brains, steals them from other countries.
As to Russians -- their academia IS one of the best, pity they don't have money to do what they can do so well. They have the knowledge and the ability, but not the money or the technology.
--
Victor Danilchenko
Russian language also does not have a word for sex, it was borrowed from the west ;-)
English does not have a word for 'sex' either, 'sex' is borrowed from Latin through French -- unless you count 'fuck'. However, if you allow English to have 'fuck', then Russian has 'yebat'. QED.
Did you know that in russian peasant is pronounced krestianin, very close to Christian. Why is that?
I don't know -- but I am not convinced that the two are etymologically related. I wish I had a good Russian dictionary here...
--
Victor Danilchenko
Get some answers, from the source of the news.
And it's in English, so don't bother that
Russian guy in the next cubicle 8-)
Oops, forgot the URL :
http://www.elbrus.ru/press/press_faq-2502.html
If you read the specs for the chip you'd see that the triple the speed factor comes from the Mips, not the clock speed.
Aside from that, hell, I've been trying to find an investor for these guys. If we can get them going, not only will the chip rock, but it would be a hell of a profit.
PDG--"I don't like the Prozac, the Prozac likes me"
"Where is my mind?"
Today's San Jose Mercury News highlighted that a sytem with 2 Pentium III's would require a license if exported to certain countries. The production of the E2K outside of the US would demonstrate the flaw in export controls. The technology is not limited to the US.
this thing might actually exist... in theory at least.
Let's take up a collection to start manufacturing them.
d
...
JFYI:
the clockrate does not measure the speed of a processor but (part of) its timing behaviour.
if you were educated you would have noticed long time ago that good education in a nation-wide sense can never be achieved by 'industrial' (=economic) approaches. if education is not free, it is not good but biased and limited.