Slashdot Mirror
Perfect tie knot mathematically found
An anonymous reader writes
"Thomas Fink and Yong Mao of Cambridge University's Cavendish Laboratory have discovered six new "aesthetically pleasing" tie knots. Now that the perfect tie knot has been mathematically proven, will geeks everywhere flock to ties?"
No.
Gah.. I was just about to submit this one, too :^)
:^)
Didn't know this was 'News for Suits'..
I program at a bank so I have to wear a suit. But I compensate by wearing funny ties. My favorite is my "cow tie"--looks just like a Gateway box (although it's unrelated).
I'd be interested in new mathematical tie knots, especially if they save length (why are ties so short?)
Oh you're one of those sickening cheerful people aren't you?
Do you really think someone would bother to mirror this?! Although it sounds cool. I never did figure out that double-Windsor. All I can manage is a boring forehand.
AC Hooligan
I'm sure you're also the kind of person to use the word "zany" in everyday conversation...
This sounds like a class I could get into. "The topological properties of men's neckwear." Maybe I can combine it with the "Implementation of woven storage and transportation containers in an aquatic environment."
you are bad
Gateways make any self respecting geek barf right there on the spot. GW2000 sucks
I know the kind of person you are talking about, but no, I'm not like that.
Nor do I think beanie babies are especially cute.
I will lose a lot of sleep over that.
My coolest tie is The Scream...
I wish I could get to their site because I want to see what their theorem has to say about clip-on ties. Are they considered the un-knot?
Um noooooooo.
The Lone Gunman from the tv series X-Files. Not only is it complete fiction it's also complete udders!
Can any 3 syllables be anymore vomit enducing?
Mi-cro-soft... hmmm....
You didn't need to do that...
Most geeks don't wear ties because the resulting restriction decreases spacial perception by ~5% as the day progresses. At least that's what a comp sci prof told us one day.
There's a lot to be said for camo.
And you've pinned down my opinion on ppl who wear 'funny/cheerful/zany' ties.
But there is nothing comparable to be paid for your coding and the employer doesn't give a shit what you wear.
People think that geeks refuse to wear ties, because a lot of them do. (I think there would be open rebellion in our development group if management tried to require that.)
Now if I'm on the make for some woman I might bust the tie for some classy night out but I gotta be me and I'm at my best naked.
little poor server..
I think they make a pretty respectable desktop. A lot better than Compaq (proprietary) or Dell (cheap-o), at any rate.
Their laptops on the other hand...
Pity... It sounded entertaining... :(
I would agree with you there!
I spent a good week at work trying to get OpenBSD/PMAX installed. I ended up just taking the drive, putting it in a sparc, rawriting the filesystem onto the drive, and then putting it back into the DecStation.
It wasn't pretty, but in the end it worked (albeit very slowly...).
I still haven't been in that embarassing situation :) Last tie I wore was 10 years ago! :)
sucker
Though, I must confess that whenever I've worn a suit, I've been stared at, remarked over, and generally laughed at. I guess I'm not wearing it right, or I need to hang around people who don't know my usual attire/attitude.
And because I'm bald, I gotta say that long-haired folk in suits just look silly 90% of the time.
Most people when they don a tie are wearing a crap poorly fitted suit and a cheap shirt. If you had to wear suits on a regular basis and invested a bit in them you would discover that they can be very nice, command unwarrented respect, and attract cute babes looking for succesful men or perhaps men with sucessful cues. :)
Our society doesn't seem to teach anything anymore about social functions. You wind up with social idiots who are fine in every other fashion but if they cannot handle a black tie event will hit a glass ceiling in their careers when the guy standing next to him is just as good technically but can dance and wear a smart suit and tie.
there are a number of useful books on the subject as well....
Casual wear (or, heaven forfend) makes you look low-class, yeah, and that gets superficial people to down you, but it lets you get stuff done.
Valuing accomplishment over personal status seems key to geek virtue.
Yeah, a suit does sorta require conformity of other aspects of appearance. E.g., I doubt Stallman could pull it off. It's the same for women who don't shave their armpits (something I don't mind at all otherwise) in sleeveless cocktail dresses.
That aside, why do geeks so often insist on dressing BADLY? Is it just the "I'm too technically busy/important to bother with a dress code" mentality?
For as much as geeks seem to whine about not getting any dates, you'd think a little more effort put into looking sharp couldn't hurt.
You very much get treated by what you wear in the Real World. Dress like a gentleman and you'll be treated accordingly - try it and be amazed.
I don't think you can get all the button-down shirts, _shoes_ (don't forget shoes, many people frown on suits worn with sneakers), ties, maybe socks that you need for only $300. I'll confess, I've only ever shopped for ties as gifts for others, but it always seems that the ones that aren't actually hideously ugly cost at least $50. Then let's not forget dry cleaning costs (and the associated medical bills for the damage that dry cleaning fluid does to you). Also, let's not forget that these costs are not one-time things. Suits can last quite a while, I suppose, since they don't get very much wear, but, on the other hand, it's not as if they have to be very damaged at all to be considered destroyed. So, you have to buy new suits every once in a while, as well as dress shoes, ties, etc. all the while buying regular human clothes for your time off.
I myself do not own a suit. Maybe I'll need one someday, but I really really hope not.
What, you mean like in submarines and stuff? I think that course is only for people going into military engineering.
use that technique for buying high ticket items. i first peruse the merchandise dressed as an unshaven slob. salespeople won't touch me with a 10 foot clown pole. when i decide on something i want (after being at many stores), i shave and put on a shirt, tie, sometimes a blazer, etc. The second i'm in the store the salespeople start salivating and hanging off me like remora. Then, i get all the attention i want.
Sad, but true.
Would you people mind showing a little consideration for us poor, impoverished students trying to find out our assigned maths work by not bringing the server to its knees the moment it starts responding again? :) http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~mdt26/ maths.html
If they could come up with a recursive knot and get it widely publicized it just may kill(1) enough suits who lack adequate processing power and memory.
knot(air) {
if (air >0)
return knot(air--);
else
die;
}
Actually, I think I'm pathalogically incapable of understanding what other people will think looks good. Plus it always seems to me that fashionably dressed people are wearing something just like the kind of thing my mother used to stuff me into when I was nine.
Wearing a nice tie with a nice dress shirt is a good way to look sharp. You don't need to wear a suit to wear a tie, and will probably look better without one. A shirt and tie in a casual job says, "I don't have to dress this well, but I choose to care about my appearance." That implies that you've choose to care about and have got more together in your life than a dozen linux boxes in your bedroom.
This will get you more interest from women than chewed up combat boots, faded jeans and that M.C. Escher T-shirt.
Unless you're absolutely the best programmer ever, this will also take you farther in your carreer and pay scale, which will also attract more interest from women.
And no, just because a woman appreciates a well dressed, put-together and successful man doesn't mean she's shallow and not worth your time.
that it cuts off blood flow to the brain.
Sheesh.
Read this and hopefully you'll realize what a dolt you've been all this time...
l
http://www.theonion.com/onion3503/wacky_tie.htm
Nobel prizewinners improving the lives of ordinary people! I'm getting married in several weeks and shall employ one of the mathematically correct methods of tying a knot, in my tie. In years hence I shall take each one of my descendants aside and note with some pride the technical merits of my tie. No doubt they will recommend an increase in my medication. A double win!
That poor little server didn't stand a chance... *sniff*
86 comments later and it's still dead! Rob, you should warn these sites before you post.
Ah, an anonymous coward with a sense of humor. Long have I waited for this day.
and now it's time for my medication
I actually do find my dress clothes to be pretty comfortable. I just don't wear them much because (1) I don't have very many, and (2) it would make me stand out too much (not something an Anonymous Coward likes).
And no, just because a woman appreciates a well dressed, put-together and successful man doesn't mean she's shallow and not worth your time.
- It just means she's a normally functioning money-grabbing materialistic woman ( they all are... it makes sense in evolutionary terms to select a mate who can provide for the substantial resources required to raise offspring - Of course, this doesn't stop them finding their long-term "supporting" mate and shagging whoever else takes their fancy behind their back, particularly if it's big and strong and clever - that way, they maximise the genetic diversity of their offspring, while maintaining the advantages of having a long term mate)
Me? Bitter? Never....
P.S. Genetic tests are available these days, of course. If your wife says " You wouldn't want to do them if you loved/trusted me ", then definitely do them - she's hiding something...
Yeah, I guess I'm actually forgetting my GW2k horror story.
I needed to install NT. I had a Gateway. It said "Made for NT". I installed. The video wouldn't work. Look up video card on NT HCL. Not there. Call Gateway. "What's a hardware compatibility list?"
The only people that dress in ties as part of their "Business Apparel" fall into one of two groups.
1. People who dress in a suit because of a business "dress code". The dress code was thought up by someone who liked to dress up their kids in "cute" clothes and thinks of the employees at the company as one step up from this. I've never wished to deal with company slaves.
2. Those who need to rely on image rather than knowledge and experience (worth) to convince people/customers that they are worth the time and trouble to talk to.
I am not impressed with either of these types, and don't care to do business with them. Don't come into my office wearing a suit and tie if you want to sell me something. Come with some substance and brains (and the right price) and we'll talk.
Little minds dress nice.
luce@cwixmail.com
Now, if I could just get a suit that would make me look like any of those things and had an option for the jake/elwood look and would work at a madness concert I'd be a happy guy. I don't think all those things would be compatible though. At least not in spirit.
Come on, you can probably get decent accessories even at KMart. That's max $30 per pair of shoes/$15 per shirt/$10 per tie, etc.
Hmm... I always get treated very nicely at commercial establishments, and I dress like a total slob.
I am not impressed with either of these types, and don't care to do business with them. Don't come into my office wearing a suit and tie if you want to sell me something. Come with some substance and brains (and the right price) and we'll talk.
Oh how very. So it's either or, right? What if I come with both substance and the polish just because I very much enjoy quality menswear and couldn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of it?
Yhea- I did it one hundered and two!
Could someone that gets in to that place mirror it? If I could get in I would do it myself..
:)
thanks
Yes, the "intellectual geek" look requires a
hand-tied bow tie, sportcoat, and hush puppies.
What a crock. Sure, things related to suits, like "success", extrovertedness, arrogance can attract women, but so do other things. From my experience, and observation of friends and teachers, dressing casual, unusual, even paint-splattered, attracts better women -- if one is a better man. I know of no women scientists (hard/mental science), artists, or musicians that like suits, especially if they're smarter and all 3 of those things. Being strange and introverted is good for getting them interested, at least as a friend. As women may know more than men, a healthy lifestyle takes care of appearance and can imply one cares about more than that and has more together in their life than a suit -- and more in their mind.
A woman liking a "well-dressed" person doesn't mean she isn't worth my time, but it probably does. I wouldn't want to conform and wear a f***ing suit around ones who are worth my time.
Real programmers don't need suits to attract women.
And even if I weren't, I wouldn't have a necktie. Those are for men.
Thanks, I always wanted the instructions for a full Windsor.
Over one hundred messages and apparently very few have even seen the actual article... :)
I'm getting more and more interested in it all the time
personally I kindoff like ties. Although I detest wearing them every day (I hate those types of ties), Wearing a nice silk tie in the middle of the summer with a slashdot t (shameless plug) and jeans just feels cool around the neck. Hey, maybe slashdot should make ties that say "I FUCK'N HATE TIES" then people would wear them..
Man required to wear tie decides it might as well be wacky
The /. effect really is the coolest thing that I have ever seen and can even conceive of. Even a completely pointless site gets killed. I am in awe of its power. Still, I have machines on my network taking just an awesome web load, and I wish I wouldn't get in trouble with the management if I started hosting all sorts of free websites in hopes that one would get posted to slashdot. (Just so that I could tell people that not only did the /. effect not harm me, but no one noticed the network traffic and the load on the webserver never went over .1).
Trim my nails? How would I get screws undone, and get that nice extra edge on the strings on my bass? :)
I have a friend who works in the TCM group with the two guys who did this. He told me that nobody's been able to do any work because every press organisation in the country has been trying to get interviews with them. Apparently the initial idea was a bit of fun that one of them dreamed up while in the bath!
That's physicists for you.
David.
Gotta be a record.
I still can't get at it
9PM MST
Maybe they've just given it up.
how 'bout doing these guys a favor and mirroring their thing? They're obviously crushed by their 15 minutes of fame.
My girlfriend bought me a tie with Penguins on it. I make a habit of wearing it trade shows/seminars. I think the icon is appropriate - although bowties are more traditional with a Tux.
Bah. Ties have been obsolete ever since napkins were invented.
While sitting, watching TV, about 4 hours after seeing this - One of the nightly news has a thing on the perfect tie...
Gee I wonder what it is about!
>Our society doesn't seem to teach anything anymore about social functions.
Teach? It sounds like you mean indoctrinate. Society is _created_ by
people and their actions.
Maybe if we stopped trying to "teach" stuff like wearing ties, the utterly
useless tie meme could die out, and your kids wouldn't have to wear ties 20
years from now. Right now, a tie is apparently a token meaning "competent."
If enough people throw away their ties, the meaning of the token will be
redefined to mean "poser."
But, of course, it is a choice. Which world would you prefer?
I've tried to unsubscribe from this mailing list for days to no avail. Could someone please have mercy on me and remove me from the list. I can't stand this constant flow of nerd news!
Bill S B
Their poor little server is holding up today, but there are no pictures of the new knots, just the math to calculate them. Didn't they actually tie any of them and take pictures to show what they look like???????????????? Did they take the pictures off to help the server? Anybody got a picture of the new knots?
Never fight the system, the world might actually be better, and that's something we don't want, is it?
My can get the full postscipt off the author's we page at http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/research/publi cations.html
I suppose it depends on how you wear it. Myself, I have the classic geek hair - as long as it grows and straight - and have found that the best way is to let it flow on the shoulders as usual instead of trying to somehow conceal the "nonstandard" haircut.
No, it won't look conforming (read: same as everyone else) - the only way to avoid that is not to have long hair in the first place - but it does have a certain style to it and definitely beats the alternatives. A ponytail is absolutely the worst thing to wear with a suit, and I really mean worst - much more ridiculous than, say, sneakers. (Although those are just my opinions and observations, so YMMV.)
On the subject of ties, the article is way cool. I've always thought there has to be some mathematical hack value to those things, and I'm glad to have my assumption confirmed. I have to try one of those new knots the next time I need to wear one..
Stallman could get away with it if he bathed regularly.
On the other hand, I hear the rage on some nude beaches this spring is women with "inverse shaving" - don't shave the armpits, but make sure the pubic area is bare.
I've always wanted to do something like that in a subject line...
I've always wanted to do something like that in a subject line...
/. would strip out the less than. Oh, well... I still remember some FORTRAN!
I didn't realize
I never understand why people think that geeks refuse to wear ties. I wear them to work 4 out of 5 days and don't really mind it.
I don't try and wear those cartoon or otherwise humors ties because I think that's like saying "I'll wear a tie, but I'm really much cooler than that."
I've noticed most of the marketroids wear those kind of ties. I just find a decent suit and try to use it as camo so I can hide in my cube and code undisturbed.
I wouldn't buy one today though.
My favourite tie is still my Christmas cows.
Cows with Santa hats and green scarves.
... to the "Tie Knot" app.
I've given up on the whole tie platform because I never had an open source knot application to run on it - had to perpetually ask to 'borrow' copies of Tie Knot from friends, co-workers, etc., and not only that but the user interface sucked so bad that I had to get their help installing Tie Knot on my (admittedly antiquated and underpowered) green polyester tie *every* day.
My old tie crashed every day, and no matter how hard I tried to baby it's uptime at the end of the workday, pulling it over my head, loosening it a little, etc. after about a week, Tie Knot was just far too much of a resource-hog and my tie system ended up constricted and laggy as hell.
Maybe now that I can download the source to various Tie Knot implementations I can dust off the ol' tie, compile the source, and get it up and running again.
Thank you OSS community! You Rule!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
get away with it.
Even while everyone else is wearing a suit and
tie, we can waltz in wearing something comfortable
(say, a t-shirt, shorts and tevas). It makes us
feel better then everyone else to know we can get
away with stuff they can't.
It's classier than standing atop your boss' desk
and yelling, "I am the only one who understands
the computer systems! Worship before me, slave!"
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
The product is the product. I personally don't really care about (or even pay attention to, or could tell) a $150 suit from a $500 suit. If the product is good, that's all I care about. I don't mark the product up or down based on how well the salesman dresses.
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
I like ties (and suits) too. Just not at work. Aside from the rather standard selection, I also have bugs bunny, mickey mouse, winnie the pooh, and a couple other kickass ties. I had this really really great tie with Marvin the Martian on it, but it wound up getting soaked in a rainstorm, and alas has never been the same since. (Note to self: silk ties+water+dryer = bad idea.)
Err...no.. I just worked for the govt. in a facility where ties were the norm. Since I had to wear a tie, I figured I may as well do something other than the regular paisley and atomic structres of sugar that everyone seems to wear. Good thing was, the only other person who shared this opinion was the head honcho of our group, who ususally wore ties with cows on them.
Though I understand the baldness consideration (I should be plenty bald in 10 years), I am REALLY enjoying the Long-hair and suit thing. And, yes, I have the UNIX-beard (me young RMS... grunt). Nothing quite like it for comfortable non-conformity.
What they failed to mention was that the bowtie was ignored because it fell more than a standard deviation of fun above any of their knots. I picked up a whole passel of bowties a while back. Once I figured out how to tie them, I've never looked back.
My favourite bowtie is one from H-P back in the day with "schematic" caps and resistors on it.
So, yeah... last big dress-up thing... I'm all about fun retro... Khakis, white shirt, blue jacket, Art Deco bowtie, khaki socks and Birkenstocks, and a wool Hound'stooth fedora, and my mid-back Jesus-style hair and a UNIX lover's beard.
What a geek look.
Posted by Nino the Mind Boggler:
...the problem is with your _shirt_. You need to make sure you get one with a sufficiently sized collar.
Posted by mark_faz:
Oooooh-wee. Take a dull subject and make it more dull. What next ? Which way round we're wearing our pants ?
Yes, I do like wearing suits, preferably three piece, with a tie. Am I now an untergeek? (I do own 18 computers... but fail at installing openbsd on my decstation).
Attempting to get the whole document.
. html
Should be avaliable at:
http://members.tripod.com/~crystalake/tie/paper
Which, if you prefer a clickable link, is here.
Hope I can get it all down...
Try: `/usr/games/fortune -s`
Makes it darn hard to read.
Sorry about that guys.
Pictures would NOT download for me.
(and man, 30 mins to download 3 pages of how many?? I must be insane...)
Of course, you could check out my project too... that's pretty insane as well.
Try: `/usr/games/fortune -s`
And I mean quality-wise. Hopefully they've fixed this, but I doubt it (which is one reason their support site sucks for getting drivers).
Gateway performs the wonderful function of changing parts out from under you in the middle of a production run. One day, you'll get a Cirrus Logic video card, the next it'll be an ATI, and yet another day, you'll get a Matrox. Motherboards change, too, as do drives and sometimes soundcards.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
This man is essentially correct. Nothing impresses a woman more than a tie, a nice clean house, a basement full of Unix boxes all churning away on strange jobs, a nice car in the garage, an airplane in the hangar, and a nice salary to support it all.
And of course, nothing impresses me more than a nicely dressed (or undressed) woman who can appreciate the above and who makes a nice salary to support even more of the above!
I must be the worlds happiest man.
The simplest of conventional tie knots, the four-in-hand, has its origins in late-nineteenth-century England. The Duke of Windsor, as King Edward VIII became after abdicating in 1936, is credited with introducing what is now known as the Windsor knot, from which its smaller derivative, the half-Windsor, evolved. In 1989, the Pratt knot, the first new knot to appear in fifty years, was revealed on the front page of The New York Times.
Rather than wait another half-century for the next sartorial advance, we have taken a more formal approach. We have developed a mathematical model of tie knots, and provide a map between tie knots and persistent random walks on a triangular lattice. We classify knots according to their size and shape, and quantify the number of knots in each class. The optimal knot in a class is selected by the proposed aesthetic conditions of symmetry and balance. Of the 85 knots that can be tied with a conventional tie, we recover the four knots that are in widespread use and introduce six new aesthetically pleasing knots.
A tie knot is started by bringing the wide (active) end to the left and either over or under the narrow (passive) end, dividing the space into right (R), centre (C) and left (L) regions (Fig. 1a). The knot is continued by subsequent half-turns, or moves, of the active end from one region to another (Fig. 1b) such that its direction alternates between out of the shirt ( ) and into the shirt (). To complete a knot, the active end must be wrapped from the right (or left) over the front to the left (or right), underneath to the centre and finally through (denoted T but not considered a move) the front loop just made.
The symmetry of a knot, which is our first aesthetic constraint, is determined by the number of moves to the right minus the number of moves to the left,
where xi=1 if the ith step is , -1 if the ith step is and 0 otherwise. Because asymmetric knots disrupt human bilateral symmetry, we consider the most symmetric knots from each class, that is, the ones that minimize s.
Whereas the centre number and the symmetry s specify the move composition of a knot, balance relates to the distribution of these moves; it corresponds to the extent to which the moves are mixed. A balanced knot is tightly bound and keeps its shape. We use this as our second aesthetic constraint. The balance b may be expressed as
and the winding direction i(i, i+1)=1, where i represents the ith step of the walk, if the transition from i to i+1 is clockwise, say, and -1 otherwise. Of those knots that are optimally symmetric, we desire that knot which minimizes b.
The ten canonical knot classes {h, } and the corresponding most aesthetic knots are listed in Table 1. The four named knots are the only ones, to our knowledge, to have received widespread attention, either published or through tradition. Here we introduce some unnamed knots.
The first four columns of Table 1 describe the knot class {h, }, whereas the remainder relate to the corresponding most aesthetic knot. The centre fraction /h provides a guide to the shape of a knot, with higher fractions corresponding to broader knots; along with the size h, it should be used in selecting a knot.
Some readers may notice the use of knots whose sequences are equivalent to those shown in Table 1 apart from transpositions of , groups, such as the use of LRCRLCT in place of the half-Windsor (T. P. Harte and L. S. G. E. Howard, personal communication); some will argue that this is the half-Windsor. Such ambiguity follows from the variable width of conventional ties (the earliest ties were uniformly wide). This makes some transpositions arguably favourable, namely the last , group in the knots {5, 2}, {6, 2}, {7, 2}, {8, 3} and {9, 3} in Table 1. We do not attempt to distinguish between these knots and their counterparts; this much we leave to the sartorial discretion of the reader.
Thomas M. Fink, Yong Mao
Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge CB3 0HE, UK
e-mail: tmf20@cus.cam.ac.uk
--
W.A.S.T.E.
W.A.S.T.E.
So it doesn't mean very much without the graphics and that vital table, does it? Oh well, never mind. There's an interesting article in there on `two-photon microfabrication' which has been allegedly `used to demonstrate a scheme for three-dimensional [optical] data storage which permits fluorescent and refractive read-out, and the fabrication of three-dimensional micro-optical and micromechanical structures, including photonic-bandgap-type structures' (my emphasis), so it's worth buying anyway.
PS I tried all of their suggested knots last night, and the only one I could make look half-way decent was the good old four-in-hand. *shrug*
--
W.A.S.T.E.
W.A.S.T.E.
whats wrong with a dozen linux boxes in the bedroom? That way i have less to pay in heating bills.
schematic
My
yep, still so. Any mirrors?
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
yeah, I've gotta tie @ home I sometimes wear out, it's called the, "noose" :)
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
Right, and most computer geeks staring at a ~17" diagonal flat screen are in need of spatial and elliptical perception. :-)
3lixyqueue
Ever heard the Ludichrist song, "Well-Dressed Man Disguise"?
Security generally only applies to shy, poorly-dressed people. Trim the hair, nails and face fur, carry a briefcase, look intent and you can wander almost anywhere.
Suits double your consulting rates.
In the States, suits are ideal for concealed carry.
And folks will take your weird-ass Chomsky marketing/social control theories, amateur Sociology and Marxist economic analysis to mean you have an ivy-league MBA.
A well-chosen and properly-tied tie doesn't choke, keeps you out of grunt work and dusty equipment (unless you want to look like a hero) and distracts people from the fact that you've been wearing the same clothes for the past four days.
Despite popular opinion suits are acceptable geek attire. (As evidence: one of the lone gunmen always wears a suit.)
Yes a lot of people consider the lone gunman theory to be fiction but do you have any actual evidence?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
"will geeks everywhere flock to ties?"
Why not? Won't it be even more exciting --oh, you mean as formal neckwear, never mind.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Don't worry for some code that was just lifted from the (working!) netbsd project I too am amazed at how insane the install for OpenBSD is on PMAX hardware. I never got it past remote booting the kernel.
--- I do not moderate.
oh yeah. i think so. mirror anyone???
-------------- insert [signature] here
as : "Will geeks everywhere flock() to ties?" the first time around?
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Wouldn't the Big Foot icon be more appropriate?
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Maybe it's an oblique reference to Alan Cox's essay.
Just a quick note .. the lone gunmen are FICTION.
brett
b
Yea, I used to buy GW2K PC's for a company that I worked for (.. well, employed me. I don't remember doing too much work..) and I found the build quality was excellent, the cost wasn't too bad, but they kept changing the spec (in fact, in one case we had 5 'identical' PCs ordered and they arrived as 3 different hardware configurations!!).
Also, if anything went wrong the helpdesk was useless and you had to pay to ship back any faulty hardware to Eire with only a vague promise of a refund. Get someone to come onsite ? No chance.
Still, perhaps they have changed since then....
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
I remember once when I worked at a software house and used to get stick from my manager for never wearing ties. So I bought this disgustingly wide kipper tie in flourescent green/orange/yellow and red, wore it to work for a few days, and funnily enough he never hassled me about it again...
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
1) Screwdriver
2) Plectrum (or Screwdriver, if you're brave!).
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
I fully agree. Maybe Rob is trying to improve the geek image by posting this story. I'm a SysAdmin so I'm probably considered mid to low on the nerd scale by the hacker crowd that frequents this site. Even so, I have plenty of coding friends who really need some help.
Trim those nails (that includes cleaning under them), get a haircut, shave, shine those shoes (no, not your birks, the ones you keep with your pair of socks) and throw on a suit. You'll be surprised at the respect it commands when you walk onto a job. Plus, as was said, you attract a new breed of women. Some may be money grubbin, but you can at least sleep with them until you find the ones that just like men who look powerful and sucessful.
M
MG
Agreed.
It should also be noted that you are not considered dressed up if you are wearing a polo type shirt you got for free from a seminar or conference. Look down. If you see a logo on your shirt from someone other than it's maker and the shirt has buttons, you aren't putting in enough effort.
M
MG
I can't hit the site, /.ed already?
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -- Homer Simpson
Now if only they'd release something truly geekworthy instead of just talking about it...
-DrPsycho - Coping with reality since 1975
I never knew that... ... Damn... that doesn't look right ... try to undo slipknot ... gaaaaaak gasp ... whoops, wrong side to pull on ...
I just find some way that holds it in place and looks right on the front...
I've probably never tied a tie the same way twice (exaggeration).
Also, when I'm putting a tie on, mathematical perfection is usually *not* what's going through my head. Usually it's more like "uuuggkkk AIR! ugkkk! Why am I putting this damn thing on? ugggkk gasp gasp swear
-Cheetah
.. and they all stink.
My other Slashdot ID is much lower.
A friend of mine made a web site called the necktie repository. Its useful for anyone who had trouble or doesn't know how to tie a necktie, like me.
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jimes/necktie
"Luncheon meats make the sawdust in your stomach explode."
wow... this is trasferring slower then aan ATM...
Honestly who really cares about this?
I like to wear suits to work and prefer Grateful dead ties...
But who cares!!!!
Behold the power of cheese...
IT'S NOT UNDERWATER BASKET-WEAVING, IT'S UNDERWATER FIRE PREVENTION!!!
sorry - pet peeve of mine.
I don't like to wear ties OR suits because they cost money that would better be spent on hardware. Going from a jeans/t-shirt environment to a suit environment can easily cost $2000.
I'm sure the women prefer you at your best :)
Has anyone else had trouble getting through to www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk? Either they've been /.ed already, or there's something wrong with my connection.
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
Two thousand bucks? Where is that money all going?
The last time I went and bought a suit, I got myself a very nice Nino Cerruti -- a beautiful Italian number that, depending on what other accoutrements I put with it, can make me look like anything from a Mafia capo to a hip record company exec to a SoMa Internet consultant. It cost something like $350 or $400.
The suit before that was a much cheaper black one that I picked up in a hurry for a wedding or something, and ran about $100, IIRC. Maybe $150.
So let's say you get one nice suit at $400, two of lesser quality at a total of $300, and then with another $300, you can get as many button-down shirts and neckties as you need. Total: $1000.
And that's taking the high-side estimates on those prices. What do you need for a suit and tie environment that costs a total of $2000?
Though I'll admit that even only $1000 taken out of the computer equipment budget is pretty noticeable. $1000 can buy a decent amount of toys and stuff.
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
I'm pretty sure you can, although I hadn't really been thinking of shoes. Like another poster mentions below, you can pick up decent-looking shoes pretty cheap.
Many of my favorite ties have been bought from street vendors for under $10 -- generally more like $3 or 4! (Washington DC, where I used to live, does have a lot of tie-selling street vendors. I haven't seen that phenomenon here in San Francisco...) Even in stores, though, they can usually be found for between $10 and 20. And I'm talking about at-least-decent ones, not those angry-fruit-salad hideosities that some places stock.
As for the remaining socks and button-down shirts, neither of these needs to be very expensive. They also need not be conservative -- I used to wear my suit with brightly colored silk button-down shirts ($20 apiece at any of a gazillion shops in Georgetown) back in DC, and nobody batted an eye. For a similar price, you can get a standard, run-of-the-mill button-down shirt at K-Mart and again, nobody will care.
So, my analysis there is: $100 on shirts gets you one for each day of the week. Figure another $50 for decent shoes, and then you've got yet another $150 for ties and socks. I'm not certain on sock prices lately, but I suspect $50 on socks will get you more of them than you're likely to need, and $100 on ties should buy at least 5 to 10.
I was responding to a consideration of "converting to a suit-and-tie environment", so I can and do count only the one-time costs. Also, since this is just the conversion, the suit need not be dry-cleaned, since it's already clean.
Sorry to be nit-picky. :)
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
You might want to congratulate said establishments some time, just to let them know they're doing something right.
Kai MacTane: Web developer for hire in San Francisco
I think the Lone Gunmen point is a decent argument in this rather pointless debate. X-Files is fiction, sure. But it's by Geeks for Geeks fiction.
w
\//
i picked up a super-dope nino cerrutti suit for about $250. but although i happen to work at a place where everybody dons suits, i never wear one. it isn't coded in the employee manual, so i skip it. nobody notices. since i am in a technical position i consider it inappropriate attire.
if one day i'm selling something again i will slap on my friend nino, preferably with my stylin', watercolory georges machado neck atttire.
And your point is...?
What do you care what your tie looks like? I mean, it's not like you wear a tie to impress babes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Himprove your social life or anything.
I'm wearing a tie right now, and I hope it's loud enough for all you out there who get /. from a slow feed...
King Babar
Babar
But even so, it is a tough choice. Do I buy a $1000 worth of suit that will look awesome and last me 5+ years, or do I sink that in a P2/VooDoo2 upgrade that will last me 5 days until it is obsolete.
Tough choice.
DOH!
--
wooga.
Better yet, let's just forget this whole tie business and make jeans, T-shirts and sneakers the new corporate uniform!
Herbert von Kammerstein
Nosferatu Hacker extraordinaire! Well, I wish, anyways...
No one actually pays these guys to study tie knots
do they.