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Netscape, Sun, and AOL plans
MBrod sent us a link to a story
about the business plan
of the new AOL/Sun/Netscape holy trinity. I'm keeping my
eye on this one. The plan is nice and vague, but it does
look like they will be working fairly closely.
Geez, how corny and obvious can you get?! I suppose in future press releases they'll be referring to Microsoft as either "The Empire" or "Imperial Forces" huh?
Am I the only one who finds it incredibly funny that, right after the discussion of how huge websites require the sort of reliability and functionality of the sort the Alliance will make, the link to Sun's "Alliance" page doesn't work?
i know /.'ers don't like to have their dogma threatened, but the sun/netscape/aol alliance is really just another facet of the industry catching up with the microsoft business model
much good and bad has been written about the ms model, and mostly only the bad echoed here, yet ms (along with the bad) was the first to make a global corperation on the premise of information technology, putting geeks first...
zyxil
Part of this deal is AOL is purchasing $500,000,000 worth of Sun Servers. HP is still being installed, but after the current HP contract runs out ... bye bye.
first it was microsoft now we get an even more powerfull gigant. They will play it hard and dirty as they can, take as much of our rights as they can just to bind us to them.
Beware of evil like aol it will blind the many and in a democratie the many rule. Sun and netscape can give them the power to chain the hoards to them. But since they do it silently they are far more dangerous and then it's too late!!!!!!!!
We have to act now! Hack those servers and kill those aol idiots, damn them all!!!!
Every dead aol idiot is less genetic contamination, so for the sake of humanity destroy them!!
The universal rule is evolution. Only the best will stay alive. And the brain is by far the strongest weapon a human has.
Use it!!!!
And I doubt if their going to get any better due to this alliance. I used to think Sun and Netscape were ok - they're better than Microsoft will ever be, but I will take Linux/FreeBSD w/sendmail & apache over Solaris w/Netscape Enterprise Server & Netscape Messaging Server. Netscape servers are buggy, overpriced, poorly documented, poorly supported.
Don't know how it looks to you, but to me Billy looks pretty happy wearing his Borg gear :)
SunWorld asks what exactly Sun is up to, in an article entitled "Does Sun Have an E-commerce Strategy?". A lot of people are beginning to wonder.
Ditto, and kill "Smart"Download while you're at it. A good idea (recoverable file transfers) totally fscked by the non-closable, spam-filled window attached to every single download instance.
I've run many servers, from ftp+gopher+wais through cern server through ncsa server through the suitespot servers. Usually in small installations. I've found NS's setup+maintainence
trivially easy, and I've never had troubles with the products. I'm setting up a DMZ now, and my #1 requirement was that I could run NS servers (#2 req. was that it be on Linux.)
Their servers are aimed at huge installations, so the impact can be a bit high (why do I have two dozen slapd processes, for example), but I'm never going back to sendmail, innd, umich slapd, univ. of whoever imap, etc.
If I were hacking server source, then obviously I'd go free-source, but most of my hacking nowadays is kernel or perl.
Sun has realized that they just can't do software.
It recently developed that most of their good hardware deals were joint deals with Netscape servers. AOL can't actually *sell* the server division for another couple years (not without evil tax penalties), so this is the next best thing: Sun "almost buys" Netscape's proven server division and axes their own, AOL gets $$$ to ease the cost of buying NSCP.
I don't think most of suns best hardware deals
come off the back or web servers, the web market
just isn't big enough + apache works just aswell
under solaris as anywhere else. I do agree that Sun wants Netscape servers though, but to compete
with microsoft on all platforms and to give a extra push to Java. Watch out for how much Java technology is in the next release of Netscape servers.
After discuss,ing your needs, they recommend a system, hardware, software, and connectivity, that meets all of them. Everyone says their system is the best, its called a sales pitch Not only that, but it ties into AOL's proprietary content delivery services as well. Never happen, no one is going to tie companies into purchasing content they don't want or need. I've never worked for or heard of a company that wanted any content but there own, if users want Aol content they can bookmark it. The system is purchased, configured,etc, in about a week. You wait another week (don't want to see it look too easy) before getting in touch with the client, way ahead of schedule. You look good, you delivered extra functionality, and all ahead of schedule. Actually you have delivered AOL's website, I can do that in 5 seconds. The company has no benifit from this, where is the business need and how will having a web server that serves AOL content make this company better from the rest? Sun wants Netscapes servers AOL wants Netscapes Browsers and Portal Netscape wanted to cash in because it had lost its way in the market place thats it
After discuss,ing your needs, they recommend a
system, hardware, software, and
connectivity, that meets all of them.
Everyone says their system is the best, its
called a sales pitch
Not only that, but it ties into AOL's
proprietary content delivery services as
well.
Never happen, no one is going to tie companies
into purchasing content they don't want or
need.
I've never worked for or heard of a company that
wanted any content but there own, if users
want
Aol content they can bookmark it.
The system is purchased, configured,etc, in
about a week. You wait another week (don't
want to see it look too easy) before getting
in touch with the client, way ahead of schedule.
You look good, you delivered extra functionality,
and all ahead of schedule.
Actually you have delivered AOL's website, I can
do that in 5 seconds. The company has no
benifit from this, where is the business need
and how will
having a web server that serves AOL content make
this company better from the rest?
Sun wants Netscapes servers
AOL wants Netscapes Browsers and Portal
Netscape wanted to cash in because it had lost its
way in the market place
thats it
Also CompuServe. It was since the AOL takeover that the last of the forums, including the Unix forum, moved over to HMI only. There is no HMI client for Unix, so people's whose only access is from linux can no longer access the forums which IMHO are what used to be the CompuServe's best feature.
If you interested in this try these
. html?0329a
h tml?0329a
e r.html?0329a
x cebit.html?0329a
AOL gave some idea this week of what it plans to do with its new
toy, Netscape Communications Corp. A major reorganization and the
creation of the new Netscape Enterprise Group division put
approximately 1,000 jobs at risk.
http://www.sunworld.com/swol-03-1999/swol-03-aol2
In an announcement related to the new Netscape group at AOL, Sun and
AOL formed an alliance -- or a "virtual company," as they put it --
to develop e-commerce solutions. Sun has been confusing everyone with
mixed e-commerce messages, but AOL's massive user base, Netscape's
middleware, and Sun's infrastructure could help the Sun shine on
e-commerce.
http://www.sunworld.com/swol-03-1999/swol-03-aol.
In other news, the worldwide server market has grown, but its
revenues appear to be flagging. Research giant IDC explains the
sag and its implications.
http://www.sunworld.com/swol-03-1999/swol-03-serv
Not related as such but linux
The streets were crowded on Linux Alley at this year's CEBIT
technology fair, but the apps missed the party. Is Linux
suffering a shortage on the desktop?
http://www.sunworld.com/swol-03-1999/swol-03-linu
Posted by Aelfgifu:
Interesting how Slashdot is so eager to throw up a pic of Bill Gates, the Evil Borg (tm) and yet there is a happy dinosaur Netscape. So I suppose that MS is really more evil that AOL?
Posted by Aelfgifu:
Anyone who works for an ISP knows that AOL isn't doing nearly enough.
Posted by Aelfgifu:
:)Besides, you can get Earthlink almost anywere. And they don't make you use their proprietary software.
I should hope that any self-respecting Linux user would consider using only BBS's over AOL.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
I've been out to AOL's HQ in Virginia. It reminded me of the typical Silicon Valley megacorp, just 3000 miles east. I know there's a knee jerk reaction to AOL as either un-cool or just too darn big. It might be both. But man, you have got to give them credit for knowing their customers, and giving them what they want. From the time I visited in January to today, they went from 15 million to 16 million registered users.
Microsoft wishes it knew its customers as well.
So you've got great technology from Sun and Netscape, and you combine it with some serious marketing know-how at AOL. Add 'em up, and what do you get? Hmmmm....
For those who haven't seen it, the Dilbert mission statement generator is worth a look.
Here's the one it came up with for me.
The customer can count on us to authoritatively coordinate world-class technology in order to solve business problems
"L'IT c'est moi!"
It's right on the mark regarding Sun's popularity in industry, their popularity as the leader of Anyone But Microsoft, their ability to take advantage of open standards and open source, and the criticisms brought upon them by competitors who accuse them of being just as bad as Microsoft if they could get away with it.
--
Jake
well duh since mozilla is open then you won't have AOL in your browser in the first place
---
Okay, this is off topic, but re: sendmail:
It's an insanely powerful mail processing/delivery system, but it takes an insane amount of effort, energy and time to get it to do anything productive. Sendmail could probably be configured to bring about world peace, but by the time we figure out how to create that configuration, we'd all be dead anyway.
I used to think printing on on Unix sucked. Then I figured it out. Printing on Unix *does* suck. Like a Kirby.
Hey, I'm all for business, but I've gotten so tired of having to go into the registry to remove that AIM thing and the AOL bookmarks that I'm considering tracking down a virus maker and creating something to modify the registry to delete this thing AS A SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY. Aaagggh.
--
One word: QMail. You don't have to like the author, but it's a damn solid product.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Great comment - I laughed.
But, sadly, it's completely false. Business @ The Speed of Thought was created by taking statements like that and putting them in the blender.
The statements, sadly, existed before the book. Wish I could give Bill Gates & friends the blame for inventing this style of lousy writing, but I can't.
(I didn't actually read the book, but I picked it up in Fry's Electronics and flipped through it. Just the chapter headings were good enough to show what this book was about - it featured every crummy business cliche I've ever seen).
D
----
anyone who works at a local ISP can thank AOL for keeping the bulk of the morons to themselves.
Just because it runs on Unix doesn't mean it's good.
PS: I work with sendmail every day so I know what I'm talking about.
Oy! I think someone just put Business@The Speed of Thought through a blender to come up with those quotes.
Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity
...Nothing interesting here. Just move along...
I wonder what the future holds for HP-UX within AOL. HP losing AOL certainly wouldn't kill the company in and of itself, but it certainly would sting a great deal.
Should be interesting to see what comes of this alliance.
--j
The unsig!
Imagine, a year from now you're contacted to put together an extensive ecommerce site. The company bigwigs, who have their secretaries print out all their email every day, are willing to commit buckets of money to this initiative. You, the humble consultant/coder/webmaster that you are, get on the phone with Sun.
After discussing your needs, they recommend a system, hardware, software, and connectivity, that meets all of them. Not only that, but it ties into AOL's proprietary content delivery services as well. The system is purchased, configured,etc, in about a week. You wait another week (don't want to see it look too easy) before getting in touch with the client, way ahead of schedule.
You look good, you delivered extra functionality, and all ahead of schedule. Not bad.
Of course, such an easy turnkey solution could make the client bypass you entirely. Oops...
In any case, it should make it easier for less technologically-inclined businesses to get on the Web easily and quickly. However, such a system ups the ante to a dangerous level. As an Open Source, GNU, whatever advocate, you want to be able to offer the same features, but written elegantly in open source. Do you think AOL wants any sort of OS software running on the poprietary part of their service, especially when it stands to lose sales to it? Probably not.
One the one hand, hope for a system that works well, simplifies what can now be a difficult process, and makes life somewhat easier.
On the other, fear that such a project could be too successful, leading Sunscape into the realm of Microsoftian (previously Orwellian) market domination.
If OS is truly going to take over the world, we as its advocates need to act. Too much OS software is technologicaly elegant but impossible to use without an extensive skill set. Perhaps this is because designers and interface specialists aren't as willing to work for free by contributing to OS software as programmers, who are notorious for designing great software whose interfaces could be called evil at best.
So, what to do?
Well, what if Sunscape was OS? It would probably be under the NSPL or Sun's Public License, but this is better than a completely closed product. Simply, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or at least meet them halfway. RMS would probably cringe, but this type of solution seems necessary if free software is truly to take over the world.
--Andrew Grossman
grossdog@dartmouth.edu
Uhhhh, so what exactly are they going to DO?
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
we can get them to open the source to AIM (like Mozilla). Then we'll go in and add a backdoor password (i.e. "/.rulez") that causes it to delete itself. I'm sure they would have no trouble recruiting programmers to do THAT for free. :-)
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
... is if they try to kill off Mozilla somehow.
Remember the AOL layoffs of Netscape employees last week? There is a considerable contribution from independent programmers to Mozilla, but I would guess that most of those developing Mozilla are still on a salary from Netscape, or should I say AOL. AOL could stop supporting Mozilla at any time if they choose, which may not kill Mozilla, but it certainly would be a serious blow. Yes, yes I know Steve Case has stated a couple of times how supportive of open source he is, but I believe him about as much as I believe M$. Besides, if he is so supportive of open source why hasn't the code to AOL's proprietary login software been made available so that we can have AOL for Linux.
I know, "AOL for linux!?!? Yuck!!" but for some it is the only ISP available. OK enough ranting.
Sun - very good, Netscape - very good, but why when I see AOL I get this feeling of uncertainty or doubt or "untrustfulness" or "unseriousness" or even "do not believe that it will be any good" feeling... Maybe I'm paraniod.
I object to that wording on so many levels... and not even one of the reasons is religious...
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BlackNova Traders