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Dell is Building iMac Lookalikes
Shawn Pryde writes "MSNBC reports that Michael Dell told investors the Dell is going to start making PC's modeled after the iMac."
I hafta say for all the criticisms, the super cheap, non-upgradable
internet capable appliance PC is a wonderful holy grail.
Someday it'll happen, but the question is will Dell be able
to cover the cheap part of that grail?
I'm not big Mac fan but the G3 case design
is sweet. Click a latch on the side of the
case and the whole motherboard panel drops
down (all connectors still intact) -- everything
is right there for easy picking, the hard drive,
RAM simms, adapters. Very nice case design.
They aren't due for 12-18 months. Vapor hardware is not news.
I didn't intend to come across as implying RC5 cracking was the be-all end-all of benchmarking. It's just one benchmark... a real one perhaps but not very important.
The industry DOES need an accepted *standard* for measuring CPU's. Intel doesn't seem interested in such a thing however.
To me, claiming MHz is EXACTLY the same as "claiming RMP" in a car. Better benchmarks are 0-60, quarter-mile, and the torque curve.
The SpecINT and fpINT, and BYTEmarks are only part of the picture.
That's a symptom of the "higher initial post" feature. If most of your posts get "bumped up", the system starts to make assumptions. My initial score "should" have been neutral (1), but because of prior posts it was 3 to START with.
One thing I DON'T like about this system is it will auto-subtract posters like MEEPT! who sometimes has some clever (or at least witty) postings that are no less on topic than everyone else. Sometimes...
At any clock speed, or just simply "close", the G3 MOPS THE FLOOR of *ANY* x86 CPU: Pentium 3, Pentium2, PentiumPro, Celleron, AMD, or Cyrix.
The Celleron DOES get decent floating point but only if you compare it to AMD or Cyrix. If you compare an Intel offering against the PowerPC 750 ("G3") or say an Alpha, you're simply not in the same ballpark.
Read up on it. This is one of the "less disputable" platform-characteristics. Floating Point on Intel sucks. Maya and SoftImage may exist on NT, but that's because of a number of pressures (including IT departments), but floating point is not one of them.
Oh, and you did this investigation, didja?
Harboring resentment towards women, especially educated ones, will get you nowhere in life unless you live in saf Afghanistan. Get a life -- maybe you won't grow up to be a stalker.
WAY KEWL pee-cee wEb pAge aRt d00d...
Diamond LX MB + 400 MHz Celeron A- $179
Maxtor 6.4GB Hard drive- $114
32MB RAM- $31
24x cdrom- $29
Diamond Viper 330 (Riva 128 3D)- $47
15" - $100
Case- $28
Total $528
Add in misc software and there is a $600 roughly equivalent system.
All prices are from pricewatch.com
There are competitors ... just without the "stylish" part. Browse your local Best Buy or whatever -- you'll find a quarter-of-a-dozen models of cheapie PC made by various vendors. Most of them are locked-down non-upgradeable machines, with a bunch of options stuck in already (sound, CDrom), and an inexpensive 15" monitor.
The iMac is just the next logical step in integrated systems like this.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
the first generation of computer programmers are either in or nearing their fifties
Er, sonny (g), a bit older than that. My *mother* was a computer programmer at one time, and she's in her seventies. Remember, the first electronic computers were built in the 1940s, and were being bought up by businesses in the 1950s. COBOL and FORTRAN date back that far.
I don't know that my Mom would have any interesting in putting her own box together these days, but my father-in-law, also in his 70s, and never a professional programmer (though he's tinkered with them nearly forever - he's the guy that coined the word "bionics") certainly could.
-- Alastair
I knew this would happen. I'm surprised Dell is the company that did it.
:)
"Cuteness" can only sell a system for so long. Once people realize that iMacs weren't being built with the (in my mind) necessary baseline features for a system nowadays, someone else had to step in and do it better. Build a good-looking system that has a DVD drive, 128Mb RAM, 17" monitor. Want to make it extra special? Throw in SCSI and Firewire. Who needs internal peripherals anyway?
Sure, one can argue that the next iMacs have that (see www.macosrumors.com). Or that SGIs have done it for years. But it was only a matter of time before a major Wintel player entered the ring.
All along, I figured Compaq would be the company to do it. They've got enough market share and enough guaranteed consumer base (think of all the places that ONLY buy from compaq... companies, schools, etc). Compaq has the in-store audience, too, that Apple seems to be losing despite strong iMac sales. (Just this week, I was in contact with several Best Buys, CompUSAs, and office supply stores that sold out of all their iMacs in just a few days, but never even attempted to stock more.)
The problem with Compaq is the price premium, as always. You're paying more for stuff you don't get. But that's there because of their "guaranteed customer base." So businesses have been moving to Dell and the public have been moving to Gateway.
Sheesh, why didn't Gateway do this? They're the ones that have the home entertainment PC audience. Imagine a cow-colored PC. I would buy one of those in an instant.
Computers are getting so cheap that aesthetics DO matter. Powerful beige boxes just don't hack it anymore.
Nor do underpowered teal, green, pink, orange, or purple ones.
-Chris
(Of course, I'd love to buy an iMac and turn it into an iLinuxPPC)
I can guarantee that monitor isn't a tenth as good as the iMac's 15" multisync monitor. That right there is enough to throw off your price point.
And who makes that box? I trust Apple's hardware over some no-name computer company.
Don't forget about that cool case. Sure beats beige.
--
InstantCool
Once again, the wintel market steals another great idea pioneered by Apple.
--
InstantCool
The G3 isn't aimed at the "average user".
-Too big: It's how big it needs to be. If it were any smaller, you'd have grognards carping about the lack of internal expandability. If you want a small case, get an iMac or a powerbook.
-Security: If somebody can't be bothered to use a lock, they're not worried about security. Note that I have a key for just about every other computer on my person at all times...it's called a Phillips screwdriver.
-Upgradability: Users who don't want to upgrade buy iMacs. Users who DO want to upgrade buy PowerMac G3's.
You needn't have a tight case to have an elegant case. For those people (the PowerMac G3's target audience) who DO know their way around the inside of a computer, the easy accessibility is a boon.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Oh come on, Michael Dell. That statement just sounds so cynical. If all he's learned from the iMac is that a candy-colored one-piece computer can revive a flagging hardware company, he still doesn't get it at all. And he must think very little of consumers to think that iMacs succeeded with the public because they're "stylish."
The thing that cracks me up is that Dell isn't the first company to say this. After the iMac came out, a slew of PC makers (eMachines for one) and even Intel started pooh-poohing it, saying many of the same things that are being said on this discussion board. You know, not enough options, where's the floppy?, underpowered, overpriced, hard to expand, blah blah blah. And I remember a couple of companies slapping together prototype lookalikes and saying they could sell the same thing for $600 or whatever.
But the proof is in the pudding, and almost a year later, nobody's actually brought forth a competitor. Even Dell is, what, over a year away? And I don't think they'll ever be able to. The first iMac-style PC will be an embarrassment: you'll have to wade through a thousand options before you even buy it (processor, ram, video card, sound card, etc.), it'll have PCI and ISA slots, serial ports, external speakers, and forty-five minutes of "registration and personalization" when you turn the computer on, like any Windows PC you buy these days. PC makers just won't be able to make the tough sacrifices that Apple did when they designed the iMac.
The iMac succeeded because most people don't have the interest, patience or knowledge to seek out, configure and maintain the absolute top-of-the-line computer. Most people just want to run Office, IE, Outlook and a couple of games. And for that stuff, a 450 MHz Pentium versus a 266 MHz G3 just does not provide much extra benefit. USB is a great consumer interface -- it's so easy -- and Apple was right to force everyone to use it. And, to be honest, I think Apple sells a lot of iMacs because techy people like us know that we can tell our mothers, girlfriends and co-workers to buy them for home, spend at best an hour helping them set up, and never have to think about it again.
The pretty boxes sure got a lot of attention at the beginning, but I think they could start making beige iMacs at this point and they'd sell just as well. Listen to the testimonials and you'll hear that people in general are very pleased with their computers.
At work I have 2 computers: an Intergraph for SynaFlex and a Dell Dimension for "email and Microsoft office". You don't want rampant Microsoft virii running loose on a production machine, see... ;-)
Anyways, last time I priced a Dell Dimension v333c it came out to $2300! Never mind that the G3 is faster than a Pentium3... this Dell is a CELERON! The G3 is faster than the Celleron by *QUITE* a noticable margin.
For THAT price I could get a G3 WITH MONITOR, same memory and a BETTER video card. Dell vs. Apple is a much better comparison than say Apple vs. eMachines
My PowerPC G3 @ 300 MHz cracks 970,000 - 1,010,000 keys per second... very comperable to a 450 MHz Pentium2. I haven't SEEN an AMD CPU that comes even CLOSE to that!
If you want to be fair, base the AMD against the discontinued G3's that are less than 300 MHz... or maybe a discontinued 604e 200MHz system which can be had *very* cheap these days (and run not just Linux but also BeOS, for whatever that is worth..)
So it can be upgraded. The lack of currently available upgrades does not prove otherwise.. the market is very young and there's just no demand, yet.
Also, because they are built using PowerPC CPU's, the iMacs are very tolerant of overclocking.
As soon as I have had my G3 PowerMac for a full 60 days I will overclock it from 300 to 350, or 400 if it's stable.
The new IBM copper-process PowerPC CPU's can be taken from their "rated" 400 MHz up to the current record of a stable 560MHz... and they DO NOT OVERHEAT. the limiting factor is usually the 100 MHz speed RAM, or the cache.
What does the IPX in Sun IPX mean? Is is a reference to a (corporate) Novell network?
I like the Pizza Box case idea that Sun (and Apple) used to have. Pick your monitor, sound, network, video, and SCSI on the motherboard suits most people fine.
I've work at places that buy standard size but have a Technician-Shall-Not-Open-The-Case policy. The labor costs of upgrading an existing box apparently are much more expensive than just buying a new one.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
The all-in-one PC is hardly a new idea. Even excepting the original Mac, Apple has had (non-colored) all-in-one models for 10 years.
Compaq has made all-in-one presarios, as well as a model that included a flat panel display. Others have followed.
The iMac is interesting because it's the first time this case style has gotten out of the educational market ghetto.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
"May you live in interesting times"
-random Chinese proverb, probably Confucian =)
So Apple set a trend and benchmark; consumers are at least as fashion conscious as power conscious. iMac flavors, design, and cuteness sells.
Why not? Notice the VW neoBeetle, for example!
However, I note several problems and have several thoughts.
A lot of people bash the iMac for cost, noting quite accurately that one could build a similarly powered system for half the price, without realizing that one would need to be knowledgable enought to build and maintain said computer. Call it a stupidity tax if you want, but that cost can be justified by the simpleness and attempt at being plug and play.
It's not as if a comparable Dell or Gateway costs $600 dollars right now. Is it me? With 6GB HD, 32MB memory, 32x CDROM(and floppy of course), and 15" monitor, the price is (gasp!) $1,018, not that far off from the iMac's $1,199 price, plus the fact you get to chose a color.
My guess is if Dell goes for the future consumer PC with larger monitor and such, Apple will beat it to the punch(12-18 months? Why so long for a PC maker the size of Dell?), with faster processors, better video cards, and larger monitors.
In a year I'd expect Apple's iMac to come with a nice quality 17" monitor, at least a 450MHz CPU, 64mb of memory, an ATI Rage Fury 32mb adaptor(about the same as a current TNT, not the Fury Pro), at least 6GB of HD space, perhaps ISDN or whatever revolutionary internet connectivity standard is hot, and separate speakers with 3d sound capability.
Assuming Apple doesn't make another blunder somewhere.
The PC market is still not offering anything cheaper than an iMac with it's functionality, performance, or style.
You can build your own, but that isn't the point.
Dell probably isn't the only one, just the first/only one to publicly announce it.
I also think that Apple's future device will drop below $1,000 dollars, and if bundled with MacOSX, will beat hands down Windows98, assuming it has all the standard features that Win98 and MacOS8.6 currently has. Windows will be on SR2 or whatever, with Win2k being to big and bloated for home use, and Win2k Personal won't be available yet.
I really think Apple is on the ball here.
AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
The design/layout of PCs are a natural result of how they have been used. Separate discrete components allow for flexibility in configuration and upgrading. I just bought a new system mere weeks ago (Dell btw.) and I have already added components to it that I wanted. But I didn't purchase it in 'consumer' mode, thus what _I_ want in a system is not what a non-computer person would want.
For computers to become a ubiquitous device it needs to be in a form factor that consumers are familiar with. Most people do purchase TVs, with the intention of upgrading the speakers or the tuner, nor do they purchase microwave ovens with based on whether or not they can upgrade the turtable significantly later. What drives purchases in the consumer market are:
1) Ease of use - Can I plug it in and use it?
2) Features/capabilities built in - I'll choose the model that has the features I want built in!
3) Price - Can I afford it?
By making a computer a consumer device, Dell (or any manufacturer for that matter) has an incredible opportunity to make the killer consumer device. Imagine, what if in a form factor similar to an IMac there was a device that has the following capabilities:
17" monitor/touchscreen
64mb Ram, upgradeable via small removable panel on side.
4gb drive
DVD Drive
SVideo Out
TV Tuner capabilities
Integrated Sound w. Speakers plus AC3 and the usual audio inputs/outputs in back, headphone jack in front
2+ USB ports, make KB & mouse use USB
Port for home automation
10Mbit Network Card
56K modem
Joystick port in front
What does this device do? Replaces many consumer electronic entertainment devices...
Want to watch a DVD movie? Pop it in and watch on monitor, or connect it to TV...
Want to Manage Checkbook? Click/touch the checkbook icon...
Want to play a game? No problem, plug gamepad in front of unit and run the game...
Want to surf? Fire it up...
Heck, with a big enuf HD (or one reserved for that) you could even replace your VCR....
I'm not saying these specs are what should be done, instead they represent what could be done. A device that replaces or can control so many components would be successful in the consumer market.
e to the i pi equals negative one