Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the one-for-the-newbies dept.
Scott writes "Just got done reading
this
article over at C|Net, which claims to
answer the 10 most frequently ansked Linux questions.
Noticed lots of links to various HOWTO's, and a few to the
LDP. Overall, it seems someone actually made an effort
with this one. "
28 comments
Linux Help Center
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
We were all newbies to Linux at one time or another... I would rather see people asking the questions than just getting frustrated and giving up on Linux.
Excellent!!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
They got everything 99% right.
/Tommy
ONLINE MAGAZINE HAS INTRO TO LINUX ARTICLE!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Hot breaking news. Stuff that matters.
Can we get a category for this kinda stuff?
I'd like to filter it. It's no longer interesting when a news outlet has a little Linux piece.
First of all, I use neither KDE nor gnome, my WM of choice is WindowMaker. But I'd like to point out, that under the Q, "How do I make Linux more like Windows", CNN points out that KDE is available. Then goes on to say that "KDE is based on proprietary Qt libs... thus gnome was born". Shouldn't it be, KDE *was* based on proprietary libraries? From what I've seen, hasn't TT released their source code under a public license (QPL)?
Read it yesterday
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I came across this article yesterday while doing other research regarding Linux - I was very impressed! I myself are what you would call a Linux "newbie" - I have only dabbled with the OS a bit. I enjoy the system, and I try to make every day another move toward it and away from M$ (going to be hard as I work in an M$ dev shop). But I am a convert - I like articles like these, even though they are not as informative as FAQ's, they still help by providing links to info (that is sometimes hard to find) - and they take an unbiased position with the right kind of attitude to help attract new users to the community...
How Can I Make Linux _Less_ Like Windoze?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
I'm a new Linux luser I'd like help making it look/feel _less_ like windoze. I installed Red Hat because um... well, I'm new to Linux, and couldn't get FreeBSD up so was feeling like a Luser OK?
Anyway... FVWM doesn't look like it did when I was using Solaris at school. What is up with that? I want X-Windows to look like X-Windows, or at least not annoying like Windoze is. Having it look like MacOS might be interesting. Is there anything like that? I'm using Afterstep and that was OK after tweaking with it.
Also, are any of the other Distros better about this kinda stuff?
They forgot pre-installs
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
They forgot to mention the easiest way to get Linux is the same way people get Windows: pre-installed on their computer! It would have been helpful to mention VAResearch, Penguin Computing, etc.
Trendy
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Keep your holier than thou attitude and you wonder why people will continue you to buy M$ products. These consumers are the ones whose purchasing power makes the difference in the OS wars. If people like yourself do not allows an easy transition, the mainstream consumer will never switch and you will be stuck crying about Bill forever. I use Linux with X only because someone helped me out after a frustrating start. I was about to quit. The solution to the Wintel monopoly is a viable alternative. Help some other people and maybe they will help you support your cause.
why dont you write a driver you rich SOB
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
go fuck yourself, 'my 5000 dollar machine wont run whine whine whine' FUCK YOU some people have a 486 so go fuck yourself and write your own goddam driver
Yes, its true. A few years ago, I bought a top of the line Gateway 2000 Solo notebook. The sound did not work and XFree was not pretty at 480x600. That was my first experience with Linux. Redhat 4.1. One month later 4.2 came out. Stereo sound then worked along with accelerated full screen video. It was amazing with the one liner commands I could do with the hardware. I could pipe this to that and it never crashed since. It was quickly turning into the computer I always wanted!
How Can I Make Linux _Less_ Like Windoze?
by
zosima
·
· Score: 1
Can't speak for other distros, but the important thing to remember is X only draws pixels to a screen. Want different wrappers around you window? Use a different window manager, or theme it. I would be greatly remiss if I didn't suggest Enlightenment to you (www.enlightenment.org, or check out e.themes.org). You want something that looks different from windows, you can't beat enlightenment. Also, I highly suggest GTK apps with themeable widgets, very cool. Check out www.gtk.org for that one, and the ubiquitous gtk.themes.org for their themes. That should get your desktop looking pretty individual. By the way, you are probably refering to FVWM95, which looks like windows and FVWM. If not, there is FVWM AND FVWM2, so that probably accounts for the difference. Definetly check out the MACOS theme for enligthenment, you will be impressed (e.themes.org, again).
Odd thing really. When I worked at gamecenter (part of cnet) I only observed one person using Linux, and it wasn't Christopher. Another odd thing was the guy worked in Gamecenter as well. (ya know, Linux hasn't had the greatest games support, at least until now)
I agree with those points you made, C/Net did a good job of dispelling FUD with FACTS. (I was writing a post along those lines too, but netscape died and I lost it - I'm on an HP-UX machine before someone laffs @ Linux.. doesn't happen to me at home)
One thing I was wondering though was in the first question it mentions that one of the benefits of having Linux is being able to 'tweak the source code at your leisure'.. hmm.. that seems like not the sort of thing to mention on the first page - can you say GPL? - especially as in the previous paragraph they mention that 'Linux is a Unix-like, kernel-based, fully protected, multitasking operating system' and then have to explain that if people don't understand.. and they're talking about tweaking source code ?.. hmm..
The dialin problem with Linux opposed to Windows seems guff to me.. I've always had more problems dialing in and maintaining a reliable connection under Windows than Linux. gnomePPP or kppp do a very good job of 'shielding' the user from the nastiness of pppd scripts.
Question 7 says something about making Linux/X/ more like Windows.. but as a counter argument what about pointing out that it's very easy to make it NOT like Windows and something much more pretty. Go use Enlightenment and GNOME and look around e.themes.org and gtk.themes.org if you want evidence of such.
Good points made everywhere else, including that of web serving (Q9), something Linux does amazingly well. The windows information copying tip is a good one too, I've passed that one to newbies I've helped before. The support issue (Q10) altho a thorny one for many Linux users is well handled, they don't just laugh and say 'What support?'.
Well done C|Net.. you can teach ZDNet quite a lot !
Hmmm. Rebuild the kernel to use every memory-hogging feature you can find. Reboot every couple of days whether you need to or not. And every 18 months or so, send a check for $99 to Bill Gates. That should do the trick.
----
I like it:)
Points in C|Net's Favor
by
Chris+Pimlott
·
· Score: 1
1. They correctly state that Linux is Unix-like, and not truly Unix. 2. They refer to it as open source and not freeware, shareware, etc. 3. They stress the cross-platform issue (many news outlets seem to think Linux is just for Intel chips) 4. Links to how-to documention and other good resouces 5. They point to a wide variety of distributions instead of just RedHat or Caldera 6. Correct answer to the "make more like Windows" question (and a sense of humor as well)
This _does_ seem to be a reasonably well written article... amazing.
I didn't actually read this article, but the stuff on CNet I have seen is really good. The write good stuff for everyone. I have seen Linux stuff, NEtscape stuff, and just about anything you could think of. They alwayse do research and present things very well. Even the comparison of Netscape and IE was good, and unbiased. Wich is a hard thing to achieve on such a touchy subject. I personally check CNet often for information, and have gone back for more.
wow..cause i suppose you are nothing but a complete genious who as soon as you heard the word "linux"..you knew exactly everything about it and how to run it. I bet you never had a single question about setting anything up and just went right in and took control. Never a problem with anything. In fact, you've never had to read a how-to once have yah?
To those of you who have expressed disdain for Linux newbies...
OK, this is a soapbox issue for me. People who essentially say, "Linux should stay the exclusive province of hackers and hobbyinst... keep the clueless newbies away!"... you are being just plain selfish. EVERY computer user should have a bulletproof operating to run their applications on, not just the hackers. When someone in my family has a problem with their computer because Windows ate its own head, *I* am the one who gets the call. Just last week I had to reinstall Windows on my sister's computer because they installed an educational program and it corrupted something in the OS. I have NEVER had that problem with Linux, even installing alpha software. Add to that the ability to remotely admin their computer, and Linux is very attractive. Unfortunately, the educational software she wants for her children is not avalible on Linux. That is why I support the *mainstreaming* of Linux.
Thad
Linux: Because I love my family members, clueless newbies though they be.
It's nice to see someone finally talking about the lack of development for newer hardware under Linux. I have at least one system that I can't run it on due to lack of hardware support. It really suck because even though none of the HW is M$ Windows specfic there is just no support for it. Oh well maybe soon. ___________________________________________ _____________ Can We trust the future - Flesh99
I have to wholeheartedly agree that C|net does an awesome job of being generally un-biased. I work in a mixed OS shop (Don't ask how many we use) and it's hard to find compatible apps to run cross-platform when everyone is getting M$ paychecks to write their reviews and the VP's and Board of Directors believes ever-damn-thing they read. ___________________________________________ _____________ Can We trust the future - Flesh99
Do think anyone who actually has to ask question like this about Linux ahould actually be using and/or installing it?
Now come on, if someone wants to use a better/free OS and get away from M$, there will obviously be a learning curve. That question is ridiculous, unless you are a developer it is almost impossible to get an install right the first time you do it. As for wanting it to look/act like Windoze thats just and ease of transition sort of thing.
To win the battle against M$ the Linux community must embrace the newbies and help them along, this idea may seem foreign to you, but every newbie that is not afraid to ask questions and learn is one less M$ customer in the long run. This post reminded me of the Cluele ss Users Are Bad For Debian article. The Linux community seems to be divided into two camps, the "I Hate Newbies" camp and the "Newbies Are Good" camp. This division and the constant arguments over distros are just a few of the things that will drive a prospective nebie right back to M$.
So keep up the good work, maybe you'll scare off a newbie or two today.
________________________________________________ ________ Can We trust the future - Flesh99
Slashdot Mirror
This is interesting too,
http://www.cnet.com/Help/Software/OS/Li nux/
Sarcasm will get you nowhere ;-)
you are exactly correct: that is the entire purpose of http://www.linuxnewbie.org
They got everything 99% right.
/Tommy
Hot breaking news.
Stuff that matters.
Can we get a category for this kinda stuff?
I'd like to filter it. It's no longer interesting
when a news outlet has a little Linux piece.
First of all, I use neither KDE nor gnome, my WM of choice is WindowMaker. But I'd like to point out, that under the Q, "How do I make Linux more like Windows", CNN points out that KDE is available. Then goes on to say that "KDE is based on proprietary Qt libs... thus gnome was born". Shouldn't it be, KDE *was* based on proprietary libraries? From what I've seen, hasn't TT released their source code under a public license (QPL)?
I came across this article yesterday while doing other research regarding Linux - I was very impressed! I myself are what you would call a Linux "newbie" - I have only dabbled with the OS a bit. I enjoy the system, and I try to make every day another move toward it and away from M$ (going to be hard as I work in an M$ dev shop). But I am a convert - I like articles like these, even though they are not as informative as FAQ's, they still help by providing links to info (that is sometimes hard to find) - and they take an unbiased position with the right kind of attitude to help attract new users to the community...
I'm a new Linux luser I'd like help making it look/feel _less_ like windoze. I installed Red Hat because um... well, I'm new to Linux, and couldn't get FreeBSD up so was feeling like a Luser OK?
Anyway... FVWM doesn't look like it did when I was using Solaris at school. What is up with that? I want X-Windows to look like X-Windows, or at least not annoying like Windoze is. Having it look like MacOS might be interesting. Is there anything like that? I'm using Afterstep and that was OK after tweaking with it.
Also, are any of the other Distros better about this kinda stuff?
They forgot to mention the easiest way to get Linux is the same way people get Windows: pre-installed on their computer! It would have been helpful to mention VAResearch, Penguin Computing, etc.
Keep your holier than thou attitude and you wonder why people will continue you to buy M$ products. These consumers are the ones whose purchasing power makes the difference in the OS wars. If people like yourself do not allows an easy transition, the mainstream consumer will never switch and you will be stuck crying about Bill forever. I use Linux with X only because someone helped me out after a frustrating start. I was about to quit. The solution to the Wintel monopoly is a viable alternative. Help some other people and maybe they will help you support your cause.
go fuck yourself, 'my 5000 dollar machine wont run
whine whine whine' FUCK YOU some people have a 486
so go fuck yourself and write your own goddam driver
Odd, at work I often ask myself the opposite of that question.
That's just too good... : )
-- No, no -- Not that one!
Posted by Gargamelo:
Do think anyone who actually has to ask question like this about Linux ahould actually be using and/or installing it?
Qt 2.0 will be QPLed. Still arguable if QPL is compatible with GPL though.
/mill
Yes, its true. A few years ago, I bought a top of the line Gateway 2000 Solo notebook. The sound did not work and XFree was not pretty at 480x600. That was my first experience with Linux. Redhat 4.1. One month later 4.2 came out. Stereo sound then worked along with accelerated full screen video. It was amazing with the one liner commands I could do with the hardware. I could pipe this to that and it never crashed since. It was quickly turning into the computer I always wanted!
Can't speak for other distros, but the important thing to remember is X only draws pixels to a screen. Want different wrappers around you window? Use a different window manager, or theme it. I would be greatly remiss if I didn't suggest Enlightenment to you (www.enlightenment.org, or check out e.themes.org). You want something that looks different from windows, you can't beat enlightenment. Also, I highly suggest GTK apps with themeable widgets, very cool. Check out www.gtk.org for that one, and the ubiquitous gtk.themes.org for their themes. That should get your desktop looking pretty individual. By the way, you are probably refering to FVWM95, which looks like windows and FVWM. If not, there is FVWM AND FVWM2, so that probably accounts for the difference. Definetly check out the MACOS theme for enligthenment, you will be impressed (e.themes.org, again).
Odd thing really. When I worked at gamecenter (part of cnet) I only observed one person using Linux, and it wasn't Christopher. Another odd thing was the guy worked in Gamecenter as well. (ya know, Linux hasn't had the greatest games support, at least until now)
I agree with those points you made, C/Net did a good job of dispelling FUD with FACTS. (I was writing a post along those lines too, but netscape died and I lost it - I'm on an HP-UX machine before someone laffs @ Linux .. doesn't happen to me at home)
.. hmm.. that seems like not the sort of thing to mention on the first page - can you say GPL? - especially as in the previous paragraph they mention that 'Linux is a Unix-like, kernel-based, fully protected, multitasking operating system' and then have to explain that if people don't understand .. and they're talking about tweaking source code ? .. hmm..
.. but as a counter argument what about pointing out that it's very easy to make it NOT like Windows and something much more pretty. Go use Enlightenment and GNOME and look around e.themes.org and gtk.themes.org if you want evidence of such.
.. you can teach ZDNet quite a lot !
One thing I was wondering though was in the first question it mentions that one of the benefits of having Linux is being able to 'tweak the source code at your leisure'
The dialin problem with Linux opposed to Windows seems guff to me.. I've always had more problems dialing in and maintaining a reliable connection under Windows than Linux. gnomePPP or kppp do a very good job of 'shielding' the user from the nastiness of pppd scripts.
Question 7 says something about making Linux/X/ more like Windows
Good points made everywhere else, including that of web serving (Q9), something Linux does amazingly well. The windows information copying tip is a good one too, I've passed that one to newbies I've helped before. The support issue (Q10) altho a thorny one for many Linux users is well handled, they don't just laugh and say 'What support?'.
Well done C|Net
Delphis
7. How Can I Make Linux More Like Windows?
:)
Hmmm. Rebuild the kernel to use every memory-hogging feature you can find. Reboot every couple of days whether you need to or not. And every 18 months or so, send a check for $99 to Bill Gates. That should do the trick.
----
I like it
1. They correctly state that Linux is Unix-like, and not truly Unix.
2. They refer to it as open source and not freeware, shareware, etc.
3. They stress the cross-platform issue (many news outlets seem to think Linux is just for Intel chips)
4. Links to how-to documention and other good resouces
5. They point to a wide variety of distributions instead of just RedHat or Caldera
6. Correct answer to the "make more like Windows" question (and a sense of humor as well)
This _does_ seem to be a reasonably well written article... amazing.
I didn't actually read this article, but the stuff on CNet I have seen is really good. The write good stuff for everyone. I have seen Linux stuff, NEtscape stuff, and just about anything you could think of. They alwayse do research and present things very well. Even the comparison of Netscape and IE was good, and unbiased. Wich is a hard thing to achieve on such a touchy subject. I personally check CNet often for information, and have gone back for more.
wow..cause i suppose you are nothing but a complete genious who as soon as you heard the word "linux"..you knew exactly everything about it and how to run it. I bet you never had a single question about setting anything up and just went right in and took control. Never a problem with anything. In fact, you've never had to read a how-to once have yah?
OK, this is a soapbox issue for me. People who essentially say, "Linux should stay the exclusive province of hackers and hobbyinst... keep the clueless newbies away!"... you are being just plain selfish. EVERY computer user should have a bulletproof operating to run their applications on, not just the hackers. When someone in my family has a problem with their computer because Windows ate its own head, *I* am the one who gets the call. Just last week I had to reinstall Windows on my sister's computer because they installed an educational program and it corrupted something in the OS. I have NEVER had that problem with Linux, even installing alpha software. Add to that the ability to remotely admin their computer, and Linux is very attractive. Unfortunately, the educational software she wants for her children is not avalible on Linux. That is why I support the *mainstreaming* of Linux.
Thad
Linux: Because I love my family members, clueless newbies though they be.
The Bolachek Journals
It's nice to see someone finally talking about the lack of development for newer hardware under Linux. I have at least one system that I can't run it on due to lack of hardware support. It really suck because even though none of the HW is M$ Windows specfic there is just no support for it. Oh well maybe soon._ _____________
__________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99
I have to wholeheartedly agree that C|net does an awesome job of being generally un-biased. I work in a mixed OS shop (Don't ask how many we use) and it's hard to find compatible apps to run cross-platform when everyone is getting M$ paychecks to write their reviews and the VP's and Board of Directors believes ever-damn-thing they read._ _____________
__________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99
Do think anyone who actually has to ask question like this about Linux ahould actually be using and/or installing it?
_ ________
Now come on, if someone wants to use a better/free OS and get away from M$, there will obviously be a learning curve. That question is ridiculous, unless you are a developer it is almost impossible to get an install right the first time you do it. As for wanting it to look/act like Windoze thats just and ease of transition sort of thing.
To win the battle against M$ the Linux community must embrace the newbies and help them along, this idea may seem foreign to you, but every newbie that is not afraid to ask questions and learn is one less M$ customer in the long run. This post reminded me of the Cluele ss Users Are Bad For Debian article. The Linux community seems to be divided into two camps, the "I Hate Newbies" camp and the "Newbies Are Good" camp. This division and the constant arguments over distros are just a few of the things that will drive a prospective nebie right back to M$.
So keep up the good work, maybe you'll scare off a newbie or two today.
_______________________________________________
Can We trust the future - Flesh99