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Phasers, Tasers and Stun Guns, oh my!
Thoth_Ptolemy writes "Here's an article on a ranged non-lethal weapon that freezes the targets body without killing them.
Wonder how long it'll be until we can whack people with Light Sabers and such. I see a lot of potential for the SCA.
" Geez-if I could have a copy for when Rob gets...frisky things would be much better in my day. To be fair, they haven't build a prototype yet, but the concept is just too neat.
Simple to build, but finding a ionizing laser that will provide a conductive path any distance that's useful is *extremely* expensive. Well, a couple grand at least. Too rich for my bones.. but I guess there's lots of people that that isn't too rich for.
:)
:) You'd probably have to hit bare flesh as well and assume there's enough of a path for the current to return to ground on.
:)
But, this should work. Meaning someone WILL do it
Another technical note - these things are low current because the "conductive" path still has a reasonable resistance (remember power calculations in high school?). So, you take care of that by using SUPER high voltages and almost no current - I've zapped myself with a flyback transformer/multiplier box at about 20kV at next to no current, and it *hurt real bad*.
In addition, the laser acts to get the conductive path set up. I don't think you'd NEED the laser after the path is running, because super high voltages ionize air all by themselves. It's about getting a conductive path (directional) set up in the first place. I haven't done much experimenting though, so I don't know how accurate this is.
Another technical note: These devices will only work against things that are not protected by a grounded shield. Zapping your computer would be a bad idea, but it wouldn't do anything, so long as the case was on the box.
Off the market HV stun guns are a great pocket sized HV source, too. Just need that damn laser
Steve
n706@unb.ca
Not to whine about this, but:
When the ____ Amendment was written, the founding fathers were thinking about ______, not ______. They couldn't anticipate the possibility that technology could make ______ possible. For that reason, the ____ Amendment doesn't apply.
Fill it the blanks with either of the two choices for each:
1st/2nd
printing presses/muzzle-loaders
the Internet/semiautomatic rifles
kids downloading porn/assault weapons killing kids
1st/2nd
Now *you* tell me where the Constitutional difference is. Hint: There isn't one. If you argue or believe that the 2nd Amendment is limited to farmers carrying single-shots, then you implicitly argue or believe that the 1st Amendment is limited to those same farmers cranking out revolutionary pamphlets. Lose one freedom and you will lose the other. Get it?
Oh I would just LOVE to have a phaser even if it only stunned people. How easy it would be to mug people then... *zap*. You'll be walking down the street one minute and out cold the next and wake up with your wallet gone.
Nikola Tesla described many such beam weapons that use UV light (no lasers then) to ionize a path in air and then use a high-voltage-high-frequency pulse to send the "shock" or "stun". This was also the priniciple behind many "Star Wars" weapons.
:).
I would think that anyone with access to a physics lab could hack something together with a UV flashlamp, or a UV laser or better ($$$). A tesla coil would make a great source of power, and there are many miniturized or even solid-state tesla coils available. (www.amazing1.com) You only need a conductive path through the air for a VERY short time to zap someone, and you can get a pretty good charge from a tesla coil - even a small one.
Those of you south of the border might have some problems with the ATF though hehe.
If anyone has access to the flashlamps/lasers that could directionally ionize air, send me a msg and I'll share some tesla coil circuitry
Steve
n706@unb.ca
>Yeah, and the police will be that much more inclined to USE this thing than fire a bullet.
Indeed, it makes a handy torture device, both for bad cops and bad non-cops. Haven't tasers been outlawed in many states for this very reason?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I think you make a good point -- the "taser" effect they're shooting for needs a circuit to do any good. With a normal taser, if you're missed by one of the probes, you're probably not going down.
;)
I wonder how they take care of that? Two lasers creating two conductive paths? I'd think the ionized air would stick around long enough outside the beam to short the circuit. I can't imagine they're hoping someone is going to be barefoot, or grounding themselves some other way...
Sounds like something that would make a hell of a security system -- two ionized beam paths in in a doorway, far enough apart not to short themselves, but close enough to give a good zap going through.
I'd bet these are more hazardous than they sound. I can't imagine the shock would do much through clothing, so they've got to aim for exposed skin -- ie, the face. I'd bet you'd have a hell of a lawsuit on your hands if a cop zapped you in the face with one of them and you ended up with blindness or seizures as a result.
(Mental note: wear goggles and a wetsuit next time I'm crossin' the cops!)
There should be more emphasis on ethics in education. Technology that has potential for disaster can be very expensive when it comes to long term investments.
I admit there are very good uses for radiation, but shooting people with UV light that can cause instant burns is not cool. There are legit uses for radiation, but zapping people with UV is not one of them.
I used to work surveying oil wells down in Texas and we used some mighty powerful sources, including neutron and gamma. When you want to find oil in a shaft miles deep in a hostile environment, radiation bouncing off hydrocarbons to detect the oil is much more attractive than drilling a hundred fold more in a hit and miss manner. We used radiation below ground and not directed toward people. It allowed us to save money and minimize unnecessary damage to the envirnment.
Radiation should not be used to maintain public order. Cancer is a horrible public relations possibility.
This is freakin' scary stuff. Like previously stated, muggings would be of great ease, and corrupt government figures abusing it as well...
Bad cops bad cops. Whatcha gonna do. Whatcha gonna do when they freeze ray you?
Probably a bit less severe than the long term effects of a gun.
If I understand the physics correctly, the
only safe people would be the ones where the
aluminium foil hats and underwear.... ( and
everywhere else as well)
Excuse me? Since when is "stun anything that moves" a good police policy?
Also, I really wonder how well this will work against someone wearing a winter coat. They have problems with felons not falling down when hit with conventional tasers, too.
Hmm. Police zap moving vehicle. Moving vehicle, now without power brakes and steering, continues down the road at its previous velocity until it plows into something. Nope, sounds just like a CHiPs episode!
Still, it would be useful for preventing people from taking off in a car.
Though, wouldn't it be bad if the anti-car raygun accidentally hit a human being like a random pedestrian?
Jon
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
This is great, as it could replace the use of the more lethal weapons out there, and would also help curb police brutality ...
:)
Cops wouldn't have to be so worried about the other guy pulling a gun on them, that they instead overreact and become far too harse when the person was being compliant. Instead, if this is developed and has no sideeffects, the officer can simply stun the guy, handcuff them, and then wait for them to wake up.
No worries.
The idea of the ones that stop cars would also put an end to all those long dangerous car chases (although we would miss watching them on TV *smile*).
Plus it would just be too cool once someone makes one in a original star trek phaser style casing
(And yes, the SCA would be VERY interested in this *smile*)
This has been thought of, and is in development as a way of keeping lightning away from airports. There was an article in Scientific American about this a while back.
The laser doesn't need to be shielded; the beam is focused instead of parallel, which means that only air at the focal point is ionized (a similar scheme is described above). A series of pulses are emitted as the laser is swept from ground to sky (or vice versa), and you wind up (hopefully) with an ionized trail at a distance from the laser.
I NEED one of these. Perfect for those boring meetings.
Corporate Type: "And so, through the process of structured quantitative technology incubation, we can proactively synergise our value proposition to facilitate the globalization of..."
*click*
*fzzrrrt*
--John Riney
jwriney@awod.com
Yeah, but standing inside one of those cages would surely be neat, assuming you were wearing ear muffs, had an oxygen tank, and welder's goggles.
Wouldn't want our eardrums to explode, to breath in pure ozone, or to be blinded by zillions of volts, now, would we?
Still... It would be impressive...
I wonder if I could build me a UV laser =)
Look out, I'll prolly be on the evening news for frying myself with lightning.
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
That would only disqualify it if the HV source were undirected and just took the path of least resistence, which would actually be the user as you have pointed out. Think lightning, I guess.
However, currently tasers work fine except they are limited by their short range; the taser *I think* completes it's own circuit unless it touches another individual, in which the circuit involving the earth and the other individual is much more attractive.
Essentially if you attached a UV laser in front of a taser, you'd get this effect. Two lasers in parallel is even better for providing an ionized path because it's just so much larger in diameter, but is unnecessary for its functioning.
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
In a similar vein, would not firing a UV laser at an approaching thundercloud force it to discharge? You'd need a large Faraday cage/lightning rod around the laser to protect it, but otherwise lightning storms could be controlled and directed.
Wouldn't that be neat? Seeing arcs of lightning, as performance art?
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
A back-of-the envelope calculation: The beam has to ionize a path say about a micrometer on a side and about ten meters long. If a small current (so that we don't fry the guy at the other end of the Invisible Death Ray) isn't going to dissipate, we're going to need a conductivity of maybe 10^7 (Ohm-m)^-1. (like a metal) Conductivity is approximately n*q^2*t/m, where n is the charge carrier density, q is the charge of the carriers, t is the relaxation time (about 1.5ns; that's the decay time for the 2p state of Hydrogen) and m is the carrier mass. (About the electron mass, since air is an insulator) This means we're going to need a charge carrier density of about 2*10^23 per cubic meter, or a total of about 2*10^18 ions. Air is mostly nitrogen, which has a first ionization energy of 1400 kJ/mol, so the total amount of energy the laser would have to deliver is about 5 Joules. It would have to deliver this in about 10 microseconds (the time for light to travel the ten meters from the guy with the gun to the poor schmuck on the other end) so we need powers on the order of a megawatt for ten microseconds.
(End of calculation part) So practically? 5J in 10us is well above the level that can damage the eyeball even from indirect exposure. (Class IV) If the beam is UV, that makes it worse rather than better - the eye can absorb invisible light less than visible, and you can't see if you're accidentally going to zap yourself with it. So unless this calculation is off by a lot (several orders of magnitude) then I'm not sure how this beam isn't going to be a lot more dangerous than the makers intend. I'm getting kinda suspicious of their claims.
This is not exactly new, although it hasn't been mentioned on Slashdot before. About a year ago there has been some media coverage of a LA based company working on a phaser based on the same principle.
-- Spelling and grammar errors tend to be a sign of erroneous thinking.
Back in high school we had a small Tesla coil for use in various physics demonstrations. Being the rather crazy idiot I was in those days, I decided to hold the output of the Tesla coil in my right hand, then pick up a copper pipe with my left hand and touch it to the radiator in the classroom, thereby grounding myself. I have never been in so much pain in my entire life. Well, actually, when I broke my tailbone skydiving it hurt more, but you get the point.
Don't know how you'd do this reliably with a remote device, but I can guarantee you that putting up a fight will be the last thing on someone's mind if you manage to do it. Convulsions will do that.
"That's Tron. He fights for the Users."
Stop it, you two!
Both of you are grounded!
*duck*
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
...charged with?
"About 25 milliamps, sir."
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Ever see the Maxell commercial of Ella Fitzgerald (I think it was her, it was a while..) breaking a glass with her voice? I've seen it numerous times in physics classes.
Anyway, programmable microcontrollers that use EPROM are commonly erased with UV light (PIC and 8051 are notable examples). This is for prototyping, however. For production, OTPs (One Time Programmables) are used. They have the exact same makeup, save the clear erasing window. I saw a discussion a a PIC list somewhere about some of the people on the list who were experimenting with erasing the OTPs. They were trying x-rays, high-intensity UV, all at different wavelengths, with some success (managed to erase them, didn't work again, ie: destroyed).
So there are magic frequencies that destroy chips.
Now, I have seen demonstrated microwave EMP devices that are capable of destroying electronics. (Discovery channel, I think) It was a semi-trailer sized device vs. a model helicopter -- fried the RC circuits. Helicopter stopped flying. Demonstrated Range: no more than 10 feet.
There are also "land mine" style EMP devices: Looks like a rubber cow pie with 4 ~18 inch antennae sticking out of it. 50Kv to the undercarriage of an auto, then no more computer. Car stops running, rolls to a stop. Anyone read their owner's manual lately? Most likely, it'll tell you to unplug the computer before doing any arc welding. Same thing! One caveat though: a car without a computer is immune!
Now, as to the range of this thing: "target up to 100 metres away..." If memory serves, 10Kv will initiate a 1 inch jump at STP (standard temperature and pressure). A meter is 39.37 inches, thus to cover 100 meters, that needs almost 40 million volts! Granted, not that difficult to generate, but definitely difficult to direct / control. This laser thingie must be really lowering the conductive resistance of the air if they say it can be built into a suitcase size at this time! What keeps the operator conscious?
Current taser and stun gun implementations operate at 30 - 50Kv. I think the frequency is rather high, on the order of 1000 Hz. Direct contact is required. The air-taser operates with nearly the same properties, the only exception being air-propelled, wire-trailing barbs that run the risk of attaching to your opponent. The police model is different only by the fact that it's propelled by .45 caliber blanks. Range for both models does not exceed ~30 feet.
The social effects of this device are definitely scary. We put a lot of criminals in jail on increased charges through "creative prosecution." Someone uses a car to intentionally kill someone -- it becomes (in addition to murder) "assault with a deadly weapon." What happens when the weapon is implicitly designed to be only incapacitating and nonlethal?
What about the Second Amendment implications? If organized government agencies can have them, then some citizens are going to want them "to protect themselves against government overzealousness." What then? Or will this be treated like automatic weapons? "The founding fathers didn't intend this, therefore only (pick your agency) will be eligible to receive them."
The criminal element is frequently characterized by cowardly actions. It takes a rare person to walk up to a victim with a stun gun, ZAP!, and the victim wakes up minus a wallet/purse. (Notice that you don't hear about this much?) The risk is that their intended victim will be similarly armed and (possibly) quicker on the draw.
Now, with this technology, a criminal will not have to close the distance to their victim, and thus will not risk being seen. I fear that this will make some criminals very much more bold.
(Tangent mode ON)
At the University of Connecticut in Storrs, there was an incident a few years ago where an individual entered a dorm, walked up to a male resident, and asked "Want a real buzz?" (Or some such nonsense). At that point he pressed a stun-gun into the victim's ribs, triggered it, and took off. The attacker was quickly mobbed by other residents. I expect that his stun-gun did little against an incensed mob, and he was quickly turned over to campus police.
This is the only time I've heard of offensive use of "energy weapons"
(Tangent mode OFF)
You see, there are stupid people out there. They do things like this, they stereotype Goths, nerds and geeks. Imagine the ruckus that would happen if the media started portraying each and every one of us as an armed and dangerous stun-rifle-toting maniac! I can honestly see things like this happening:
(Older beat cop, nearing retirement) Sorry I had to stun ya. Here's your jaywalking ticket.
(Victim, trying to catch breath)...why...did...you...?
(Cop) You were trying to evande me!
(Victim)..what...???
(Cop) You were walking away faster than I could!
Okay, perhaps I'm a bit paranoid. I just finished watching a series on when cops go bad... perhaps you caught it? No one is perfect, and it's very dangerous to put easily abused power into the hands of authority without any checks and balances. Sometimes I wish we would put as much energy into real problems as we put into weapons!
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
It seems to me that if governments did get their hands on this technology we would in effect all be droids fitted with restraining bolts. whenever someone stepped out of line,.... *zzzzzzap* i dont know about you all but it sure seems kinda scary to think that we could all in effect be slaves to our own government. well its not like we arent already, but it adds more of a science fiction theme on it. :)
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Considering the UK's record at shipping this sort of stuff out to dodgy regimes I would be quite worried.