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Getting Paid to Write Open Source Code

Thanks to Norm J for pointing out the recent Doc Searls' article that talks about the growing number of ways to earn money while writing open Source code. This article is especially interesting in light of CoSource and SourceXChange. So, buckle down, and have fun-get paid to do what you love.

53 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. Open Source has gone commercial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    If I wanted to make money writing software, I'll go work for Microsoft. CoSource? Yeah right. How long before I see ads on Altavista like this:

    GET THE SOURCE -- NOW at www.msn.com

    Open Source has become just another buzzword, everybodies talking about it. But besides Netscape, which `corporation' has actually gave us any interesting source code (not hidden behind 1,0000 lines of legal crap)?

    It seems Slashdotters are happy when they can download their latest corel-shareware.rpm but they're the same losers who start complaining when GNU/Linux is mentioned.

    Well, like all things going commercial, quality gets lost.

    1. Re:Open Source has gone commercial by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2

      Sun gave us XView and SUNRPC long before the expression Open Source was invented, and they financed the maintenance of TCL. They invested a lot of money in XEmacs.

      HP gave us the reference implementation of STL, and SGI has been maintaining it since. This is the version used in gcc.

      And if we look further than the big guys, the biggest contributers to Ghostscript, gcc, GNAT, and gdb are all commercial, and XEmacs also originated from a commercial setting.

      Commercial support for free software is nothing new, and for those of us who like both free software and earning money, it is definitely not something bad.

    2. Re:Open Source has gone commercial by dattaway · · Score: 2

      If your software really is useful, I'd speculate that you would have more long-term success with open-sourced software than
      anything else, and that the GPL would be most successful of all.


      If someone wants code to be looked at, I'm sure people who enjoy coding prefer a code base that can be freely added to and borrowed from on a whim. If an application proves useful and I know it is GPL, I might be inclined to see the intimate details of how it works and learn something from the author. While I'm at it, I might catch a few bugs and help add something useful myself.

      On the other hand, if the source code of a bloated operating system were available under a restrictive license, I would not even want to waste my time or contaminate my thinking with it. I would want to "clean room" myself away and deny ever seeing it.

      I have nightmares of being chased by Bill Gates with reams of Windows source code. "Here, touch it!"

    3. Re:Open Source has gone commercial by Lando · · Score: 4

      So are you saying that getting paid to write code is bad? Or that even if companies are advertising open source work, they are actually producing proprietary software. This conversation is pretty important to me at the moment, as I get set to launch a consulting and service firm oriented to *nix. I've hired one programmer full time, though he won't be programming full time, and another part-time to work on specialized programs. It would be nice to be able to get programmers to work on specific projects without having to pay them, but it's my opinion that they need to be paid for their time, especially since it is of value to me. My biggest problem is getting the finances to pay programmers what I think they are worth. I prefer to program myself and if I had a choice, I would not mind programming for little as long as I knew that I would be taken care of, but in my opinion programmers, especially good programmers, generally are not paid what they are worth. If anything management tends to be paid more for a job that is no more difficult than coding. The whole reason for hiring programers is the fact that I have customers that need a solution to their current problem. I intend to make my money off the consulting portion of the business, though I can forsee some projects that I will not open-source, quite a few can be released as open-source once they are complete and indeed I wouldn't mind making some of them opensource in the beginning to get professional help that I cannot afford at the present time. Comments? Thoughts? Lando

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    4. Re:Open Source has gone commercial by for(;;); · · Score: 2

      [First a little geekiness:

      Lando> 2b || !2b That is the statement

      No, it's not. According to the BNF in K&Rv2, a statement is either followed by a semicolon or enclosed in parentheses (with a few other variants). What you have is a logical-OR-expression (most specifically), i.e. an expression (most generally). Also, I don't think the first character of valid identifiers can be digits, and "2 b" doesn't mean anything. "2*b || !2*b That is the expression" would be more accurate. (Correct me if I am wrong on these points.)]

      If your software really is useful, I'd speculate that you would have more long-term success with open-sourced software than anything else, and that the GPL would be most successful of all. Free software tends to get used by a lot of people; the more people use your software, the better off you are in the long run. Consider that companies who own their programs and code have been hiring old COBOL coders like mad for Y2K stuff; what's important isn't controlling the code, what's important is being recognized as somebody who can do nontrivial things with the code. Make it free, get it out there, you'll do well.

      --

      "Whatever happened to fair use?"
      -- Duff-Man
    5. Re:Open Source has gone commercial by Dead+Mike · · Score: 2

      RE: "Open Source has become just another buzzword, everybodies talking about it. But besides Netscape, which `corporation' has actually gave us any interesting source code (not hidden behind 1,0000 lines of legal crap)? "

      Check Freshmeat, but here are three:

      http://cvw.mitre.org (The Mitre Corporation)
      http://openmap.bbn.com (BBN/GTE)
      and, of course,
      http://www.sendmail.com (you didn't qualify your definition of the size of "corporation).

      Not to mention IBM's donation to the Apache Foundation, and the various beginning-to-be-profitable Linux/*nix distributors (XFree86 and SUSE, Gnome/Enlightenment and Red Hat Labs (not to mention RPM's) and Sun and its sponsorship of the Java community (through the Java Fund and others).

      Don't forget that jsut because the underlying art isn't "free or open," doen't mean the derivatives can't be...so then we need to count LiteStep (ACKK! M$loth!), X (???) and even AT&T itself (Unix begat BSD begat Minix begat Linux...ad infiniteum).


  2. Re:Prevention of Dissenters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    If an HP developer doesn't work, he gets a pink piece of paper... and HP is also behind three months. HP SAVES MONEY by outsourcing, since it wastes three months' pay on an unproductive employer that it doesn't have to send to a contractor...

  3. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I like your idea better... it's simular to an idea I had about consumers posting bounties for bug fixes and enhancements. This would use the laws of economics to ensure that the most important things get fixed first.

    Personally, I think economics can have a benificial role in steering the direction of open source development. If its important enough to me, I should be willing to pay some money for it. If it's important enough to enough people, there should be a sizable reward for meeting the demand.

  4. Re:Commercial vs. Open Source quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    However, the commercialism is not needed for the OS to continue to thrive. In fact, it might prove it's downfall (with the Linux standard base still not ready). Look at FreeBSD, what do you here about it from the media? Little or nothing. Does this make it a worse OS? Does this make development go any slower than Linux? Not really, FreeBSD has enough dedicated developers too make an excellent product without generating all the media hype Linux tends to draw. I'm not saying Linux sucks, I'm saying people who only "embrace" it to make money out of it suck.

  5. this should be tax deductable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3

    How much different is funding a Open Source project from commissioning an artist to do a public mural?

  6. How the Hell Will this Work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3


    Let's say I am someone with money, and I want to put up $10,000 to have a vital piece of software written...

    Let's say it's a device driver, or a codec, or maybe even a I/O library.

    So I put up $10,000 of my own money. What do I get?

    What if I'm not satisfied with the result?

    What's more, am I forced into an open-source license? Can I request a BSD license?

    Otherwise, I end up paying $10,000 for an open-source codec, device driver, or library, and on
    top of that, I have to give away both the open-source, and my own closed-source product.

    So I spent $10,000 and substantially increased my risk. Also, I spent $10,000 for a device driver that maybe someone else might have funded. So why not wait 1 month and get the same result for free?


    Why not spend $10,000 and just hire a consultant?

    Paying for open-source development just seems stupid for the vast majority of business models. What the hell does open-source have to do with say, factory robotics? (not portable at all.)
    Or corporate automation (must be onsite and have deep knowledge of the business internals)

    Or, why would I pay someone to develop the next Quake killer, just to have them give it away.

    Or why pay at all, and just let some other idiot pay, and then leech off the open-source result?

    They will be forced to use GPL you say?

    Even worse.

    I think CoSource and SourceXChange will end up showing the idiocy of the OSS business models.

    In the end, we will see that the only two models that will work is the Support and Consultant model. But no one is going to pay for OSS product development since it makes no sense.

    I might pay for someone to write an intranet app for me, since I could care less if they give it away. It's not likely to be useful to anyone else.


    CoSource and SourceXchange will end up being nothing more than CareerBuilder/Monster.com style sites listing jobs for programmers who end up getting hired as consultants.

    1. Re:How the Hell Will this Work? by tap · · Score: 2

      How does giving away software decrease its value to the person who wants it written?

      There exists quite a bit of software which is not itself a product. There are lots of people who want some piece of software that they don't intend to sell, they intend to use.

      Your attitude sounds, quite frankly, like childish selfishness, like the kid who won't let his little brother play his video games when he's not using them. So you pay $10k and get some piece of software written that you want. Other people get to use it for free. Other's use of the software doesn't make it any less useful to you. In fact, it will probably make the software more useful, since others will contribute improvements, that you get to use, for free.

    2. Re:How the Hell Will this Work? by firewood · · Score: 2

      > How does giving away software decrease its value to the person who wants it written?

      The value of something has very little to do with how much people will actually to pay for it. That nice coat in the store is worth more to me than the current price; but it's going on sale at another store across the street next week; so I'll wait and save 40%.

      That device driver might be worth big $$$ to me; but I'll wait until Bob, or somebody else who needs it as much as I do, offers big bucks for it. Then I'll wait, hire some kid at minimum wage to type ftp, gunzip, configure, make, install for me; and save 99% of the purchase price. If it's Open Source and on the net, I'll get it seconds after Bob gets it.

      It's time arbitrage. The first person in gets screwed relative to everybody else. Does that sound fair?

  7. Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4

    I've been proposing something similar for years, but with the numbers reversed... I can't implement it, myself, but perhaps these guys can.

    SourceXchange allows a single big sponsor to write a spec and then hire thousands of programmers. My (unimplemented) Programmer's Agency would allow a single big programmer to write a spec and then solicit thousands of sponsors. Each sponsor would contribute a small amount, which would then be held in escrow by the agency until the programmer completed his spec. The agency could then take a 10% commission on the programmer's earnings. From the sponsor's perspective, the agency would seem just like a mail-order shop selling commercial software... except it would be legal to copy what you purchased -- and you'd have to wait for it to be
    written before you received it. From the
    programmer's perspective, the agency would gather
    thousands of small software purchasers into a
    single rich purchaser with diverse interests.

    Why can't the same companies implement both ideas?

    --Ed Kiser

    1. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous+Shepherd · · Score: 2

      I don't see where some of your extrapolations come from...

      So there would be a segment of the software industry (those programs that lend themselves to OpenSource - basically, OS's, business, most things besides big games) that could no longer be "sold", per se.

      Linux is an Open Source software now, and it is being sold; why would Open Source software in the future fail to be sold? Support and manuals and setup would ostensibly be the reasoning, but Open Source software should still be sold, in the future.

      No HP making copiers and software, no Sun making hardware and software. All these companies would have to drop their software divisions.

      I don't imagine this would necessarily hold either; I would think, for internal use, that a permanent 'independent' software house would make more sense than regularly contracting out work to the same company, so in some situations HP would keep their software houses, while in others, like BofA for example, would continue to contract out, perhaps to HP or IBM, for example.

      Some companies may shed their software divisions, but if the software divisions are added value ventures that push the sales of hardware and support, I don't see why the big companies, like HP or IBM, would lose them.


      -AS

      --

      -AS
      *Pikachu*
    2. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous+Shepherd · · Score: 2

      What you say is certainly *possible*...

      True enough, the Red Hat does not, per se, sell Linux, at least not in the same way that M$ sells Windows, but the software remains for sale, in stores, etc. In a way the presence of boxes of Linux on an aisle shelf works very much as advertisements for Linux and for RedHat. The problem with *not* selling boxes of Linux is to require people to be savvy enough to download an installation and work their way through, or to buy a CheapBytes type CD? Caldara has a very nice solution, in that they have value added support software to their OpenLinux, with their own installer and 'proprietary' dual glib version compatibility. I'd imagine, even if RedHat isn't 'selling' Linux, it's important for someone to carry boxes of Intel Linux, PPC Linux, Alpha Linux, etc, in store aisles... at least until online shopping is the norm, and browsing aisles is relegated, if ever, to the dustbin.

      As for an internal independent software house, it's a management and allocation bonus. On demand, no searching or hunting for talent, as well as being able to control/supervise on a daily basis the software programmers. Otherwise the same argument goes for secretaries, management, utility, janatorial, marketing, etc; none of them make any money for the company, they just help to keep the company running. It is *only* the software programmers, the hardware designers, the manufacturing plants, and the distributors that make any money for a company, but the glue layers between all these components is necessary, and a permanent software house is just as useful, to fix bugs in Open Source software utilized internally, to port some Open Source software, to maintain Open Sourced software, etc.

      Still, I can see what you're getting at, but I just don't quite believe it will go that far anytime soon, like say the next 10 or so years. There are still shortages of decent technically skilled workers in the Silicon Valley, so no company would be willing to let go of it's talent and allow them to earn 'market' value...


      -AS

      --

      -AS
      *Pikachu*
    3. Re:Interesting... by Billy_Pilgrim · · Score: 2

      Cosource.com will only handle monetary compensation when it launches (because we are aggregating many sponsors, rather than a single sponsor per project). If you want a machine instead of cash, sourceXchange is the one for you, at least initially.

      I tend to think that non-monetary compensation will become extremely important for both companies.

      For example, it would be awfully hard for me to write a driver for a piece of hardware without first owning it. (Forgive me if I've got the wrong site here, I've just read both. . .)

      Also, waiting for a milestone to receive cash to get hardware x would be kind of hard, huh?

      Obviously there will be a lot of things to work out after your beta run, but I think this is an important thing to look at up front.

      In addition, non-monetary compensation is at least partly responsible for the way in which the OSS movement has flourished, attracting these kinds of attentions.

      --
      "My husband invented the internet, and I censored all the naughty stuff on it. . ." -Tipper Gore
    4. Re:Interesting... by Bernie+Thompson · · Score: 3

      Thanks for your questions. We don't have a FAQ up yet, sorry. (I'm a lazy Perl programmer, and I'm trying to write the FAQ in XML, and spit out the pages from that -- not done yet).

      Will Cosource.com only use the GPL licensing model? No, we'll provide a menu of licenses for the developer to choose from. The sponsors can then reject bids that use licenses they aren't happy with. We'll accept requests to have new licenses added to that menu.

      What do we do about non-monetary compensation? Cosource.com will only handle monetary compensation when it launches (because we are aggregating many sponsors, rather than a single sponsor per project). If you want a machine instead of cash, sourceXchange is the one for you, at least initially.

      How to we make money? We mark up the developer's bids, much like a retailer.

      Thanks,
      Bernie Thompson
      Cosource.com

    5. Re:Interesting... by Bernie+Thompson · · Score: 4

      Hi Ed,

      Obviously we haven't made this clear enough (our upcoming FAQ will speak to more cases) -- Cosource.com is designed to do just what you're asking for: Either an initial sponsor or a developer posts a project, and we start gathering sponsors for that project.

      We handle the developer-initiated case, and we certainly handle the multiple sponsors -- that's our primary focus! This logic for the site is implemented in Perl (mySQL database).

      Join our beta program and check it out...

      Cheers,
      Bernie Thompson
      Cosource.com

    6. Re:Interesting... by speek · · Score: 2

      Extrapolating a bit.....

      So there would be a segment of the software industry (those programs that lend themselves to OpenSource - basically, OS's, business, most things besides big games) that could no longer be "sold", per se. Companies would still pay to have it built, but then everyone could use. Companies would probably create software research funds and all member companies could request various software to be created/updated.

      Which suggests that all software could eventually be outsourced and created on-demand, and the main companies would only make "real" products, and sell services only. No HP making copiers and software, no Sun making hardware and software. All these companies would have to drop their software divisions.

      --
      First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
    7. Re:Interesting... by speek · · Score: 2

      Linux is not being sold by Red Hat - they are selling Linux support and an easy installation toolkit. What happens when other, easy-to-use Linux toolkits are made available for free download? Then all Red Hat is is a technical support company. Which is exactly what I'm saying. Selling software just can't last if Open Source takes off they way everyone seems to want.

      And since Open Source software has more developers behind it, on more platforms, proprietary software solutions designed with specific hardware in mind (ie Sun making solaris for Sun hardware, HP making software for HP hardware, etc) will become increasingly hard to sell. The proprietary software is no longer a value add over Open Source solutions. The software divisions will spin off - witness Javasoft. Yeah, Java is from Sun, but it's mostly it's own company that Sun just has a large investment in. Because Java isn't tied to Sun's hardware, it's going it's own way.

      Even for internal use, an independent software house would be hard to justify - it has no means of making money, and it's probably cheaper to outsource it all, just like companies find it's better to outsource IT. Why have a team of engineers create code for your copier, when you can contract some dedicated software house to modify some existing Open Source code for you? Admittedly, this is a far off example, because Open Source is nowhere near the embedded systems market, but this is an extrapolation.

      I'm hopeful, in any case. I envision loosely knit teams of programmers contracting for jobs - not even representing a company - just a group of individuals with complimentary skills coding for fun and profit. Reminds me of that group of ISP developers who put themselves up for auction on Ebay.

      --
      First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
  8. I get paid to do work I love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4


    I quit my job 1 year ago.
    I started my own company.
    I write exactly the software I want.
    I got investment and I have revenue.
    It's not open-source, although I have
    contributed in the past.
    But, I completely love and enjoy what I do.

    IMHO, open-source is like a hobby. If you can't imagine or find a way to get paid to do what you love, than that's your problem. Whether open-source or commercial. The openness or closedness of something is not what makes it fun or interesting. I'm sure the engineers who build stealth bombers at Skunkworks still have lots of fun.


    Don't equate commercial developer with "suits" and "cubicles" and "dilbert"

    Most of the people I know of don't have cubicles, or suits, they work in gargages in Silicon Valley.

    If your attitude is "once I get paid to do open-source, it is no longer fun, and I have commitments and responsibilities and obligations, etc..."

    then you have a serious problem with commitment, integrity, personal responsibility, and working with other people.


    Is this a symptom of generation-Y, the real *ME* generation? It's kinda like "fuck everyone. I'm going to work when I want, on what I want, and no one tells me what to do. If you don't like my bugs, fix it yourself. Open-Source lets me get away with being a lazy irresponsible person. Because I can always fall back on 'if you dont like it, you have the source to fix it yourself' "

    Is this really the essence of the Slashdot community? I don't want to be obligated to anyone?

  9. Prevention of Dissenters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5

    The article, as far as I could tell, did not mention dissention. What if a developer produces crap, or nothing at all? He may not get paid, but now H-P or whomever is three months behind where they wanted to be. If an H-P programmer doesn't work, he gets a pink piece of paper...

    The enforcement cannot be a strongarm contract -- individual developers do not have personal attorneys, and aren't willing to risk a lawsuit for $500 - $5000.

    How do coSource, etc. handle enforcement on the development side?

    1. Re:Prevention of Dissenters? by Eccles · · Score: 2

      >What if a developer produces crap, or nothing at all?

      I would think that companies would use the same sort of safeguards one generally uses to ensure contractual compliance. Before hiring a contractor, references and/or a previous working relationship are important. During the contract, status reports and demonstration of current status show the work is coming along. Legal action can be used to deter outright fraud, and otherwise it doesn't take that much overhead to have some impression of how the work is coming along. And the more important the work is to the company, the more safeguards you use, the more checking on the progress, etc. Even the most honest, hardworking programmer could die in a car accident tomorrow, so you make sure you're not so dependent on his/her work that failure is not an option.

      Note that for damages below a certain amount, small claims court is used, not full-fledged lawsuits. Small amounts simply aren't worth suing over.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    2. Re:Prevention of Dissenters? by yuzow · · Score: 4

      If you take a look at the sourceXchange web site, there's a peer review process to handle "enforcement" issues. They don't go into much detail, which is unfortunate, but the basic gist is that a peer reviewer, who is an expert in a particular technology, is assigned to the appropriate project, and makes the final call whether a milestone has been met. It says these peer reviewers are compensated, but I'm curious how many people will actually sign up for it.

  10. Ownership by Micah · · Score: 2

    RMS *should* be ecstatic over this.

    But I don't quite understand who actually *owns* the code that is written. It seems that the sponsor, the company that pays for the service, would own the code, and thus be able to set the license. Then they would be able to change it to any license they want.

    I guess that's where CoSource and sourceXchange have to guarantee that it will always be under an open source license.

  11. Tradition by HoserHead · · Score: 3
    This isn't the way things are traditionally done in the Free Software community. Generally, things get done because a particular programmer needs or wants that particular task to be (possible|easier). Even so, there are a lot of programmers who can't think of tasks which other people might need to do, but aren't programmers themselves. Other people or companies with more money and experience could ensure that their particular itch gets scratched.

    However, I can think of a potential problem with this new "mercenary-like" approach to Free Software development. While I don't find anything innately wrong with being paid to do a Free Software development job - or being paid to do any programming job of any sort - this gives companies and people with money the upper hand when it comes to deciding what gets developed. True, most Free Software developers have other jobs, but when it comes to deciding between working on a "true" Free Software project and one for which you're getting paid, which a company wants - the for-pay job will probably win. It remains to be seen whether the traditional Free Software community is hurt by these developments.

    Personally, I don't think this could happen - but it might. Do we really want to forfeit our independence?

  12. Read. Understand. Post. by gavinhall · · Score: 5

    Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:

    I don't doubt that you'll see proprietary companies touting the openness of their source code if you aren't already.

    And yes, "Open Source" is a buzzword.

    And yes, I also hate free (beer) software disguised as Free (speech) software.

    BUT, you seem to be confused on number of issues.

    First, Netscape is not the only corporation to have opened its code. Cygnus, IBM, Sendmail Inc and many others have always or recently been open.

    Second, your only objection to sourceXchange and CoSource seems to be that the developer makes money. What's wrong with that? No one, not even RMS, objects to developers getting paid to do what they love. The objection is proprietary "standards", secret source code and lack of Freedom.

    As for quality getting lost: What exactly do you feel will lose quality? Linux? These companies aren't hiring Linux developers, they are hiring developers for unrelated, Open Source software. And even if some of them wanted things like device drivers or kernel mods, they'd have to pass Linus to be official anyway.
    --
    "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda

  13. Linux media hype by TedC · · Score: 2
    ...FreeBSD has enough dedicated developers too make an excellent product without generating all the media hype Linux tends to draw.

    There's no doubt that Linux is over-hyped in the media. Part of this is due to the MS trial; it makes interesting headlines for MS to have a real competitor for a change. I suppose that reporters will get bored with it eventually, just as they got bored with Java a while back, and move on to something else. But like BSD, Linux is an excellent product, and it can survive on it's own merit without all the media hype.

    TedC

  14. Commercial vs. Open Source quality by TedC · · Score: 3
    Well, like all things going commercial, quality gets lost.

    Not all commercial software is of poor quality, and not all Open Source software is well written. Bad programmers write bad software; whether they get paid for it is a seperate, unrelated issue.

    It seems like a lot of Linux users are adopting the attitude "if it's Linux/Open Source/whatever it must be good, otherwise it sucks". A little more introspection in the Linux community would be a Good Thing.

    TedC

  15. Interesting... by Millennium · · Score: 5

    Here's the thing. People always use the "programmers will starve" argument against Open-Source and moving the whole industry in that direction. The thing is, they're half right. If the Open-Source model becomes the standard for the industry, those programmers who cannot adapt to it will either lose their jobs or have to take severe pay cuts.

    However, there is still big money to be made. Why? Here's the deal: Open-Source has many advantages. The biggest advantage is that maintenance turnaround times are extremely high. However, Open-Source does have one flaw: initial development time, be it for a piece of software or even just a major feature being added to a piece of software, is very slow.

    And that is where the money is to be made.

    Why? Well, Open-Source proponents say that the initial development time does not matter. However, they're wrong: it matters. A great deal. People outside the industry care about it even if people in the industry don't. This isn't a bad thing, though, because that's where the money comes in. Imagine a company which writes only Open-Source software. Of course, you have the idea of selling support and such, but let's face it, that alone is not going to pay all the bills. It'll sustain the tech support division but it won't fund programming, especially not on completely new projects. However, what happens when that company also does consulting? That is, it is hired by others to write completely new Open-Source software or add large new features to existing software.

    Why would people do this? Individuals probably would not, but businesses would. Why? Because they need software now. They can't depend on waiting for features to naturally evolve, as features do in the Open-Source model; it simply takes too long (and there is no guarantee that the feature you want will evolve at all). That is where the companies come in: what they are selling still is not the software itself. What they are selling is the ability to get that software out more quickly than would otherwise happen. It's like shipping via FedEx; you can save a lot of money by using the regular mail, but FedEx will get it there much more quickly (plus they're more reliable than the postal service).

    There's money to be made in Free Software. You just have to know where to look. And ironically enough, Open-Source's only flaw is the reason you can make money from it.

  16. cutting development to the bone by goon · · Score: 2

    is it just me or do others have a mistrust of money in the development of oss? i cant see it really taking off for for small-meduim projects, but it may have a benifit for large (say a real gnu browser) or will it? with money comes some degree of organisation and rules/regs.

    the bazaar method of software development has 'evolved' because it's efficeint. efficeincy in software development means software gets out faster. how can 3rd parties not but get in the way, while they sort, shuffle and haggle over their own red tape?

    while i bet ppl can think of good reasons why money for os development, what about the dynamics and effects this has on efficiency of output? oss at the moment is lean and mean with as few people to guide development as possible.

    imop, until there's some runs on the board, this type of 'top-down' approach will be interesting to watch, but not a powerhouse of development as some may think, in the bottom-up world of oss.

    --
    peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
  17. But how about long-term support and maintenance ? by Oestergaard · · Score: 3

    I really love the idea of sourceXchange and coSource. For development of new software, and for quick fixes and feature additions, this is surely the way to go.

    So, I start this company and get paid $100K to develop some large piece of software, say, a complete 3D modelling and rendering package a'la 3D studio + Pixar renderman.

    Great, the company that neede this got what they wanted, I got paid, and everyone's happy.

    Until, a year later, someone wants not just a feature addon, but a larger change that will require some architectural changes in the software. Now what ? I'm of to Bahamas and can't be reached, and noone else really has any real insight into what goes on in my code.

    How do we ensure, that a program developed thru these new efforts gets maintained, or at least, keeps it's maintainers ?

    This is different from the current OpenSource development, because now, people write the software because they need it themselves, or because they truely love the idea of that piece of software they are creating. For those reasons, the software that currently gets developed, is likely to have a competent and loyal maintainer or ``head of development'' for many years.

    With the get-paid-to-do-X-and-getouttahere, the software is not likely to hold this key person for very long time. I see a problem in that. But how do we solve it ?

  18. Linux Mall and donations by dattaway · · Score: 2

    I just took a visit to LinuxMall and do not ever remember their pages quite so huge! Its mighty busy and could be distracting if I just wanted to order something. Are they trying to be a portal or something?

    You can donate more than just the slotted $5 by increasing the quantity multiplier. When I ordered the cheap Debian cd, I put a good number in the donation box.

  19. Re:Jolt Cola, Now with 500% more caffein! by dattaway · · Score: 3

    Some anonymous poster described this effect to me:

    "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the Beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
    the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."


    So what we have here is someone experienced in tilting back cold refreshing 16oz Jolt Cola Classics (tm) and discovered the New Improved Jolt. When the fingers hit the keyboard, the once steady hands turned into convultions of mouse clicking like behavior.

  20. Let's clear up some misconceptions, please! by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4
    Some number of you are saying things like don't tell RMS. That's silly. RMS is not against making money while producing free software. In fact, RMS was under contract to Intel, writing free software, a few years ago. RMS paid Ian Murdock a salary for 6 months while Ian was working on Debian. He's paid lots of other programmers, too.

    I don't know about other authors, but before I do a minute's work for any of these groups, I'd have the license stated in my contract.

    It doesn't matter much who owns the code as long as the license is fair. You can't take back the BSD license or the GPL.

    Don't forget the non-profits like SPI and FSF. You can fund free software through them, and write it off your taxes, too. And I think they are more appropriate stewards of free software projects than companies like O'Reilly and Associates. Given O'Reilly's recent anti-GPL agitation, a lot of free software authors would not want to do business with them. It's a shame that HP chose them for an associate.

    Thanks

    Bruce Perens

    P.S. use bruce@va.debian.org for email, my DSL provider went out of business and thus perens.com is down.

  21. Can this handle changes in developer group size? by David+Ishee · · Score: 4

    One of the good things about the volunteers writing free software is that developers can come and go as their interest inspires them. A bug can be fixed or a new feature added by a newcomer just as well (?) as a member of the original core group.

    I think that with these contracting arrangements new developers will not wander along and help out. The original core group (or person) will work on it until it is done. I didn't see any mention of how to compensate someone who jumps in at the last minute and fixes a bug or adds the final feature. How would the latecomer be compensated? I would guess that the core group will not change for the life of the project.

    If the projects span a few weeks or months, then the group size will not have time to change. I think of KDE or Gnome where developers are more likely to come and go and contribute widely varying amounts of code to the project.

    The idea that all bugs are shallow given enough eyeballs doesn't say if the eyeball that found/fixed the bug was a member of the core group of developers. A newcomer could have found/fixed it.

    This may not even be a big deal, I don't know.

    --
    Your password has expired, please login to change it.
  22. Open-Source Funding follow-up by kzinti · · Score: 2

    [This is only slightly off-topic, but since Hemos mentioned CoSource, I'll go with it. (It's also posted to the right discussion this time; first try, I posted to the wrong one.)]

    Speaking of Cosource, this seems like a good time to let everybody know that I received a great response to the essay I posted earlier this year about Open-Source funding and escrow agencies. I'm currently going through the responses and preparing a second essay to make recommendations to people who want to contribute money to Open-Source development efforts. My review will include organizations such as the Free Software Bazaar and CoSource. Unfortunately, my day job keeps getting in the way, or I would have posted my follow-up sooner.

    --JT (Jim Thompson, "kzinti" on slashdot)

  23. code mercs by blaine · · Score: 4

    This is a very interesting concept. What it allows for, in a sense, is something of a "mercenary" subculture of programmers. Instead of paying somebody a full time salary and benefits, and dealing with all the hassles that come with hiring somebody, a company could enlist the aid of a "hired gun" to get the job done. Yes, we have contractors now, but this allows for a completely different methodology. Instead of seeking out programmers/contractors, we have basically mercenary "contracts" (bounties even) available to anybody who thinks they can get the job done. Obviously, this means there is a level of trust that:

    a) the job will get done by the developer
    b) the job will get paid for by the company

    This is definately a step in the right direction for the Open Source movement. Not only does it allow people to make money, at the same time it still helps to furthur the community by making sure the code is open. The peer review is also a great way of making sure that quality code is produced. Not only that, but now, if a company needs support for certain hardware for a specific OS that doesn't have it, or some similar problem, and just wants it to get done, and does not care about owning the rights to it, it can get done quickly and efficiently.

    Now you too can be a merc! Just sign up, hire some nerdy thugs, and make a killing! (figuratively speaking of course)

    I can't help thinking of Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries :) God I love(d?) that game!

    --

    -[Blaine]- "'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
  24. This is free software! by Q-bert][ · · Score: 2

    I think what people failed to notice was that this doesn't conflict at all with the FSF. This is just a way for a company to hire someone to code something that they themselves cannot. The software that was created is then relased as opensource for all to use thereafter. A suble(sic?) but important point.

  25. Re:Why I object to commercialism. by Dead+Mike · · Score: 2

    Elaborate on the Microsoft TCP/IP comment, please.

    If you mean the stack, then I can use Open Source C (gcc port to M$/OS/2, etc.), code alternatives to the stubs that Microsoft, must, by definition, leave Open, in order to be interoperable with the rest of the world (even they can't afford to write off those not on Windows...remember, they're an INTERNET Company now!).

    But I believe the majority of desktops communicating via TCP/IP use SOCKS and that doesn't belong to M$, its owned by some Austrailian company or other, and not "Open" either (sigh!)

    I can see using M$'s libs for only M$ code, and then they have every right to ask to "review" the result, as you saved some precious time by re-using their "prior art."

    I, personally dislike using any libs not "open," or that I don't write myself, especially communications protocols, as I don't trust "Black Box" comms....but use the M$ libs and MFC if you want or need to. Others of us will continue to use other tools and take more time, but wind up with better optimized, and more secure product...THAT is the major benefit of the maturity of the models we use now (such as the TCP/IP communications protocols, etc.)

    Remember that all of this was developed originally over 20 years ago by the US Government and its contractors and then "given" to the world because of statutory requirements...if the "prior art" is public and allowed to mature, and adopted as "Standard," even M$ cannot "steal" the product. The code may "fork," but the community, by its efforts can isolate the branch and allow it to die. It is only when we allow M$, IBM, Sun, HP, et. al. to define the standards with proprietary, "closed" code that we run the risk of losing the war by capitulation. This is one of the most unsettling aspects of, for instance, Java.

    I agree that software SHOULD be free, and most of the best stuff, the stuff that survives, is...but, there must be a model for rapid development of "Free" software that supports the best of us in their work. It remains to be seen whether this is an answer. It is certainly not THE answer. The market will decide

  26. Who's says Rome CAN'T be built in a day anymore ?? by opencode · · Score: 2

    SourceXchange is undoubtedly a better idea than it first seems -- and not just for the money, or even the reputation of Linux/BSD.

    Sure, SourceXchange will eventually become "the WD-40 for open-source development." Since, after all, what in a "new" program is really NEW? It's like asking a songwriter what in his/her song is original -- same language, new twists and turns, further propegation (sp?) of this new paradigm.

    I'm not at all against hackers getting paid for their craft, but I REALLY like the aspect of peer review -- which is no longer an unspoken commandment of open-source. Sure, we all know it's there; but THEY do not ... and THEY are the ones keeping us fat.

    --
    "He who questions training trains himself at asking questions." - The Sphinx, Mystery Men (1999)
  27. Free speech/free beer by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4

    The author of this article hopelessly confuses the meaning of "free software". He quotes a lot of Stallman to explain the slight ideological differences between "free software" and "open source", but then continues using the word "free" in the gratis sense to draw a comparison between "free software" and the software that these two companies are trying to help people create. Unless I greatly misunderstand the qualifications to be "open source", the products created under these kind of contracts will be "free software", and also will be free (gratis) to all who want them. The monetary transaction involved is to have the software created in order to sell services or add value to existing proprietary software.

  28. Community standards by ravenskana · · Score: 4

    I see this as (necessary?) steps in organizing the community, and I think there will be some growing pains in making it a success:

    It will be especially interesting to see how all this goes down with Richard Stallman and the Free Software stalwarts.

    I don't recall hearing anything (yet) from this corner. I imagine there will be some ... debate ... over this.

    Whatever disagreements may persist between RMS and others in the often fractious movement he
    started, the difference between Free and Open is now clear. The two can no longer be mistaken for
    synonymous, and companies looking for open source development don't need to stumble over the F
    word.


    Perhaps it is clear for the discerning /. reader, but the mass media doesn't make a distinction. I think it is important to continue to define the differences, so that the communities involved are not confused by the public.

    often a great idea would come up and somebody would say, "Oh it would be really nice if somebody
    worked on this." But because it wasn't really sexy, or because it wasn't an overnight hack, it would just go undone.


    This is always going to be a significant problem. Not just for specific projects, but for
    things like documention and quality control / testing. People may want to code it, but do
    they want to take the extra steps to make it maintainable? This is an area I didn't really see addressed in the article.

    1. Re:Community standards by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2
      This is always going to be a significant problem. Not just for specific projects, but for things like documention and quality control / testing. People may want to code it, but do they want to take the extra steps to make it maintainable?

      Sadly, those steps are rarely taken in commerical, proprietary code...

      Cosource mentions docmentation as one of its potential type of projects. I don't see why testing, code reviews, et cetera can't be contracted out just like development.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  29. Ummm... Isn't this just telecommuting? by Izaak · · Score: 2

    Sure, we are wraping some additional process
    around it, but this is at the core just
    telecommuting. I know freelancers who have been
    doing this sort of thing for years. One of them
    consults for a company in Chicago but does all
    of the work from another city. The company does
    no have to provide office space or a computer.
    The consultant does not have to relocate his
    home and then fight rush hour every day...
    Everyone wins.

  30. open source associations by johnrpenner · · Score: 2


    this is a good thing. it is the next itteration towards
    *associations* which will mediate an intelligent distribution
    of the needs of producers, and the interests of consumers.


    --| open source associations |-----

    Where 'supply and demand' are the determining factors, there the
    egoistic type of value is the only one that can come into reckoning.
    The 'market' relationship must be superseded by associations
    regulating the exchange and production of goods by an intelligent
    observation of human needs. Such associations can replace mere supply
    and demand by contracts and negotiations between groups of producers
    and consumers, and between different groups of producers...

    Work done in confidence of the return achievements of others
    constitutes the giving of *credit* in social life. As there was once
    a transition from barter to the money system, so there has recently
    been a progressive transformation to a basis of credit. Life makes it
    necessary today for one man to work with means entrusted to him by
    another, or by a community, having confidence in his power to achieve
    a result...

    A healthy system of giving credit presupposes a social structure
    which enables economic values to be estimated by their relation to
    the satisfaction of men's bodily and spiritual needs. Men's economic
    dealings will take their form from this. Production will be
    considered from the point of view of needs, no longer by an abstract
    scale of capital and wages.

    Economic life in a threefold society is built up by the cooperation
    of *associations* arising out of the needs of producers and the
    interests of consumers. In their mutual dealings, impulses from the
    spiritual sphere and sphere of rights will play a decisive part.
    These associations will not be bound to a purely capitalistic
    standpoint, for one association will be in direct mutual dealings
    with another, and thus the one-sided interests of one branch of
    production will be regulated and balanced by those of the other. The
    responsibility for the giving and taking of credit will thus devolve
    to the associations. This will not impair the scope and activity of
    individuals with special faculties; on the contrary, only this method
    will give individual faculties full scope: the individual is
    responsible to his association for achieving the best possible
    results. The association is responsible to other associations for
    using these individual achievements to good purpose. The individual's
    desire for gain will no longer be imposing production on the life of
    the community; production will be regulated by the needs of the
    community...

    All kinds of dealings are possible between the new associations and
    old forms of business--there is no question of the old having to be
    destroyed and replaced by the new. The new simply takes its place and
    will have to justify itself and prove its inherent power, while the
    old will dwindle away... The essential thing is that the threefold
    idea will stimulate a real social intelligence in the men and women
    of the community. The individual will in a very definite sense be
    contributing to the achievements of the whole community... The
    individual faculties of men, working in harmony with the human
    relationships founded in the sphere of rights, and with the
    production, circulation and consumption that are regulated by the
    economic associations, will result in the greatest possible
    efficiency. Increase of capital, and a proper adjustment of work and
    return for work, will appear as a final consequence...

    Exerpted from: Rudolf Steiner, *Capital & Credit*
    http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Steiner-S ocial.html


  31. This isn't so new. We do both those and then some by droleary · · Score: 5

    This seems to be yet another case of Slashdot reporting old news. We at Subsume Technologies have been trying to get the boat floating in the "pay for your open source" movement since last year.

    Put quite simply, nobody seems to be eager to to give funding to projects that may potentially help a competetor, regardless of the benefits of the open source model. For some reason, it is OK to buy the same word processor as your competetor if it comes from Microsoft or some other closed-source shop, but the second you want to release the source, they think they're just giving a free ride to someone else, which doesn't sit well with them.

    We've taken pitches for software a company wants implemented, we've given pitches to companies for software they need implemented, and we've done software in advance in hopes of finding the market that will support it. In all cases, the mention of our intention to make the source open has been met with massive resistance.

    In short, it simply won't fly. The market is not yet ready to contribute to the open source movement, they are only ready to plunder the works that already exist. It will be a good five or ten years before the more clueful companies show enough benefits to topple the old model of proprietary computing.

  32. Re:Can this handle changes in developer group size by Bernie+Thompson · · Score: 2

    The important thing is to break down larger projects into smaller components. Cosourcing works best for modules that can be worked on independently, and many efforts can be going on in parallel by different people/groups.

    For example, We won't have a single project called "KDE" on Cosource.com. What we will have is a folder called "KDE", with lots of different projects in it, like "Add a CTERM(Rate, FutureVal, PresentVal) spreadsheet function to KSpread".

    Thanks,
    Bernie Thompson
    Cosource.com

  33. Re:what about licensing? by Bernie+Thompson · · Score: 3

    I'm not sure how sourceXchange is handling this --probably selected by the developer as a part of their RFP.

    With Cosource.com, the developer places a bid to win the project. That bid includes their price, their schedule, their peer reviewer, and their license.

    Project sponsors get to look at and accept/reject each bid. The first bid to gather enough sponsors to pay the price is assigned the project.

    The license is not a text field.. it is a menu of radio buttons of standards licenses like GPL, MPL, etc. with links for everyone to go read the full license text on the home site.

    I'd love to heard any comments you have on the way we're doing this. We expect that it'll take a good bit of fine-tuning to get this right so we're balancing the needs of sponsors, developers, and the Open Source community at large.

    Bernie Thompson
    Cosource.com

  34. Re:But how about long-term support and maintenance by jdzions · · Score: 2
    Until, a year later, someone wants not just a feature addon, but a larger change that will require some architectural changes in the software. Now what? I'm off to the Bahamas and can't be reached, and no one else really has any real insight into what goes on in my code.

    You're kidding, right? Cygnus makes a very healthy living supporting OSS; stuff they've written, stuff other people have written. If a program is important (e.g. egcs) to some company's business, they'll pay someone, anyone, to provide it.

    How do we ensure, that a program developed thru these new efforts gets maintained, or at least, keeps it's maintainers?

    Use cosource/sourceXchange/any-other-means to tell the same community "I'm willing to pay someone to support this code". Or develop your own expertise and support it yourself.

    Compare this to the proprietary source model. The vendor assumes that, if you want the product, you also want some low level of support; the cost of that low level of support gets into the price of the product. The vendor then sets a higher level of support and charges another fee to obtain that level, adjusting the level and price until profit is maximized.

    In the cosource/sharedXchange model, there are no assumptions. Desire for and willingness to provide support are made explicit; an efficient market in "what does support mean to you?" evolves. I can see some people bidding $x each for "fixes to these ten bugs"; I can see other people bidding $10x for "fix any bug I can reproduce for you within 5 working days".

    None of the above is profound; it's been said before, and amply demonstrated, by Red Hat, and Cygnus, and a whole lot of other people and companies.

  35. Infrastructure is good by jdzions · · Score: 5
    Speaking as an executive of a company that has paid individual developers for exactly this purpose, I'm thrilled to see an infrastructure develop to make things easier.

    Last year my company sponsored what we called a "Linux Bounty"; we identified a dozen or so Open Source applications that we wanted ported to our operating system. We put dollar amounts on each and set up some simple rules:

    1. First acceptable implementation gets paid
    2. We decide what's acceptable
    3. We'll update in real-time a list of projects for which we have received implementations
    4. Whatever copyright terms applied to the original source base applied to the submitted code
    We got a half-dozen implementations; for those which were useable, we paid. The most expensive item cost me $1000 out of my budget, and was cheap at the price.

    The biggest unanswered question about sourceXchange indeed lies in the matter of peer review. If I'm going to write a check for a few grand, I'm going to want to have some degree of trust in the technical judgement of the person or persons deciding if the submitted work meets the requirements. I expect I'm going to have to write wickedly precise requirements with respect to coding standards; things like "no compiler warnings beyond those generated by the starting source base", etc. Things that I need guaranteed if I'm going to be able to support the resulting software.

    All in all, though, I expect to be a sponsor of a variety of projects. Start small, work my way up as I gain trust in the process. I don't like the idea of starting small; it will cost me time I can ill-afford. But it's the only way to mitigate the risks involved with someone else making an accept/reject decision on my behalf.

    Jason

  36. The point is that openness makes this possible by pavlos · · Score: 3

    This is a great idea whose time has indeed come. Some posters have argued that this is just like telecommuting or contracting and others decried the notion that programmers will be getting paid, claiming that this is not "free" or "open". More reasonably, some have expressed a worry about what license the projects would be released under.

    I believe that Open Source is what makes these schemes possible and different from a simple contracting agency. The understanding that the project is to be released under an open source license affects the dnamics of the sponsors and the motives of the developers, as well as lubricating the entire process.

    First, Open Source allows a group of users, who want the software for its use value and not as a product to resell, to come together and pool funds for the development. Sure, there will be free riders, but they only get to sit and watch the scenery go by.

    Second, developers like to work on open source projects. The reason I would rather work on an Open Source project is the ethical motive that my source will be free for use by everyone and not hoarded to extract a price, whether I get paid for writing it or not. I do want to earn a comfortable living and welcome this chance to be able to do so while developing Open Source.

    Third, the bidding and collaboration arrangements suggested by these sites are made far more practical by an Open Source license because there is no need to keep the project strictly confidential, and because of the very large pool of potentially reusable code.

    Thank you
    Pavlos Papageorgiou
    pavlos@spamblocker.voxar.com