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XFree86 Release Plans
sfid writes "Just read at XFree86 about the release plans for 4.0. The first beta will be availiable in July, further on there will be releases every 4-6 weeks. "
Mentions several new chipsets in the 3.3.x tree, as well as
several interesting new features for the 4.0 tree including
video in a window, multihead, integrated TrueType,
as well as 3D support
Precision Insight's
DRI stuff (which looked really excellent at LinuxExpo), Mesa,
or SGIs GLX.
Hmm.. Jurassic Park?
"It's a Unix system! I know this!"
I for one am cheering for such a major upgrade. With recent advances with Redhat 6.0, GNOME 1.0, GTK+ 1.2, and many others (including the anticipated release of Mozilla), Linux is finally advancing far enough and fast enough to be a serious contender in the desktop market.
It's important to note the large availiability of applications and tools not only to make it easy for developers to create products for Linux, but also the tools to make it easy for "normal" users to experience the advantages of using an open source OS.
Especially with all the recent news coverage that Linux has been getting, the idea that device support (at least video device support) has started to become largely comprehensive (especially with a section of the market Linux has long been bad with, totally new drivers, as evidences by nVidia and Creative's moves) really adds to the appeal of the operating system.
Quite simply, I cannot wait until I can get my hands on a version of XFree 4.0, especially if there's some very cool and useful features such as multi-head support, support for more cards, &c.
Thanks to everyone that has helped develop and test X, and remember to support open source software!
I can run XFree86 on Windows NT using the Interix Posix implementation.
You mean you can actually run one of the servers, or just that you can use the client libraries? Do the XFree86 client libraries differ from the stock X consortium ones in any significant way?
Hopefully they will fix some of the obvious memory leaks in XFree86. Like the XWrapper eatin my memory like I eat fried chicken.
Your Momma's so fat she makes emacs look like nano!
Quake and QII have always had hooks for all sorts of mods. And Q3 will be cross platform.
Why couldn't one just use this environment and add basic Desktop functionality? File browser as real objects... Web browser... Some sort of xterm...
Or maybe it is easier to start from scratch. Give me a browser, xterm, and quake and I can do 80-90% of all my computer needs.
One problem is that redhats Xconfigurator does not set my board up correctly.
I have a Diamond Viper 330, with the riva128 chipset, but I have the 8MB version, which is much closer to the Viper 550. However, it does not work correctly with either the Viper 550 settings, or the Viper 330 settings, since Xconfigurator expects the Viper 330 to be a 2MB or 4MB card.
I need to use XF86Setup to set the DAC to the correct speed (250) and change the amount of RAM on board. So far, XF86Setup is the only one that can do this correctly.
Glothar == "Too Lazy to enter my Password"
ttmkfdir -o fonts.scale -p
like the next post. It works better.
you don't need to install any new rpms
if you've installed RH6.0
Choice of masters is not freedom.
> They dragged a window so that half was on one screen and half was on the other -- and both sides of the window displayed properly.
I'm not sure how useful that is in practice besides being a neat hack. Keeping the window in the half-displayed state like that mainly burns CPU cycles doing extra clipping and the like.
Being able to support more than 1 color depth on the same display, and being able to switch color depth without restarting the X server, are the main things that X really should support.
(this could be done by just requiring applications to redraw when the color depth changes; apps would get an error if they tried to continue using the old depth and would have to re-adjust- otherwise, the X server could do the translation for old apps when the display changed, and provide a new interface for new X programs to become aware of the change)
If two X displays with different color depth were linked, the window manager could provide the necessary glue to allow dragging windows from one to the other, never actually displaying the same window on both screens. The wm of course should draw its icons and embellishments correctly in both color depths.
The alternative to font anti-aliasing, in my experience, is a high resolution display, 1152x864 or higher. Font anti-aliasing was developed primarily for those people who don't bother to set their displays to anything other than 640x480. :)
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I prefer text to the gastly widget set that XF86Setup uses, but I don't like xf86config for a couple of reason: You can't back up, and the on-screen directions are too verbose (they should be in a readme file or something).
And yet even with xfstt (or a patched XFree with ttf support) or xfsft (I've tried them all), font rendering at small point sizes is apalling. Absolutely terrible. No worse than PS font rendering at small sizes, but come on - Windows and MacOS have been doing good quality small point size rendering for years.
,hacker Perl another Just)'
I seriously hope this improves (it's all down to a good hinting engine). That and font smoothing would seriously improve my X experience.
Matt.
perl -e 'print scalar reverse q(\)-:
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
wow.. really? Care to show me how to setup multi-headed Matrox Millenium G200 cards in linux?
We tried getting them working at my job. Accellerated X said they could do it. Then they said they couldn't. (with those cards)
Metro-X said they can do it.. then they said they couldn't. The only way to get multi-headed G200 support in Metro-X is by mixing a G200 with a Millenium or a Millenium II. You can't use 2 G200's.
Well, of course, Helvetica is the suckiest font that comes with X, IMO. Have you tried the 100dpi fonts yet?
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Anyone know how far along the g200 support in mesa is? I'd like to try q3 under linux.... it looks great in 32 bit under windoze.
Beeblebrox.
Well, actually, multiple video cards and monitors. Don't know if it includes multiple keyboards and mice.
Also don't know if anything other than a 1:1 card/monitor ratio is possible;ie, if any cards by themselves support multiple monitors.
All of this implies independent monitors. I bet there are solutions already for monitors slaved to another monitor, but that's not multihead.
--
Infuriate left and right
XFree worked fine before (well, the font display sucked (yes, I know about standalone TT and PS fontservers)), but the design -- separate server binaries -- always bothered me as very inelegant. Finally, my aesthetic sensibilities will be satisfied, and we will all live happily ever after! (the fact that there will finally be native Voodoo3 support, won't hurt either).
--
--
Victor Danilchenko
IMHO, other than hardware support, XFree is better. (And XFree has pretty good h/w support.)
Reasons you might want a commercial X server:
OpenGL with anything other than an NVidia or Matrox chipset. (And right now, 3D for the G200 is limited by incomplete specs.) So basically, h/w support...
Multihead support. I'm not sure if XFree supports multihead yet. According to the announcement, 4.0 will.
Umm... Other than multihead support and hardware support, I can't think of any other advantages... I think AccelX has been known to be faster for some cards, OTOH, I've heard many bad things about the quality of the server. (i.e. bugs) I'll take a performance hit for the stability of XFree.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Nope. It's just not there. I for one am a VERY dissatisfied Rage Fury owner not because of the quality of the card, it's fairly good - in Windows, but because ATI was so damned slow in releasing specs for the card so that a driver could be written. Peak has the best info on using a Rage 128 card in X, but it appears as if there is only one guy working on the XF86 driver! We also should have a dvd player for X. IMO, this is not too much to ask. If Windows gets these things, so should X.
It would take more than an addition to 4.0 to support that, it would take a pretty fundamental change in X-Windows itself.
X fonts are returned to the server from the font server as monochrome pixmaps. Font servers expect to send that, x servers expect to get that, and the client programs all expect that. You'd need to extend the X protocol to support grayscale pixmaps for the fonts, recode the font server to be able to send them, and the clients to be able to understand them.
IMHO, I don't see it happening. Some client programs where it would be useful could be extended to do it the way Gimp does it (request the font at a size a few multiples bigger than needed, and resize it down on the fly), but it would be application specific, and I can't see very many applications needing it.
I thought for a while about poking around in Mozilla and trying to add the ability to do that in there, but since I decided to do it, I haven't managed to get a single copy of Mozilla to run on either of my decent Linux development systems...
I think Mozilla is a place it'd be nice to see that support.
Well I for one would love to see support for antialiasing. I run 1280x1024 on a 17" monitor and notice a huge difference between text and graphics with and without antialiasing. I don't understand what the big resistance against it is all about. Just imagine if Linus, Raster or Miguel listened to the nay-sayers. Personally I think it would be a great addition to the capabilities of XFree86, and I'm surprised there's been no attempt to impliment it.
Will the modular approach of 4.0 make such implimentation possible?
Paul.
I guess I should forgive you for not having a clue, since the link I posted doesn't work today. Try this link instead. In short, not all of the GNU project is written by GNU, some of it is just included because it is good and it is free. And not all the stuff they collected from other places is GPL, though it is all free.
Though decent outline support would improve things no end -- I thought about implementing the double-sized fonts thingy in my X server, but gave up after taking a look around the innards of X (and yes, the most of the font system would need a rewrite, but it NEEDS one)
Also, if you want a 14-point font at 75 dpi, then you DONT request the font at 28pt -- you request a 14pt font at 150 dpi (to be pedantic, but this show the problem about the font doubling -- you have to worry about the screen resolution, the font resolution etc. -- in short, and I think you'll agree, X can't do type to save its life).
John_Chalisque
What specifically does Redhat 6.0, Gnome "1.0" and GTK advance? Excessive use of pixmaps, perhaps, but not much else.
A lot of good reasons and partition schemes mentioned above, but nobody seems to have mentioned a separate partition for swap.
/var or /tmp, so I generally have one partition for the relatively invariant stuff (the OS and apps, ie /var /tmp and /usr all on the same fs as /) and one for data, user files, etc. (Plus a swap). And then another partition for each OS if I want multi-boot.
Sure, ideally you have enough RAM that you never swap. But if you are swapping, performance will be a heck of a lot better if the swap space has its own partition rather than messing with the filesystem. Some commercial databases like to have their own partition for data too, for similar reasons.
On a mostly single-user machine (ie my personal workstation) I'm not much worried about overflowing
-- Alastair
Use the TrueType font patches, and install some TrueType fonts. it doesn't do anti-aliasing, but the scalability works well, try it.
Agreed, I have tried high resolutions (1600x1200), other fonts (URW) 75dpi, 100dpi. X fonts simply are ugly. Plus tampering too much with fonts makes some X apps (and their widgets) look wrong as they were not prepared for that.
Some sort of intelligent font smoothing are really needed, anything else (as mentioned above) just doesn't quite cut it. Windows look crisp and clean with respect to fonts, in comparison.
Your should try GGI with the "Cube" target, and run X servers on the cube sides :-) Not quite what you suggested, but at least it's 3D.
> Not everyone needs, or even wants, anti-aliased text. For example, at very small point size, anti-aliasing tends to make things worse, not better.
My car stalls when I start it in fourth gear. That's why I have three gears under that.
You don't antialias small fonts. Windows doesn't antialias fonts under 8pt (you can make it, but it is awful). And has been said over and over and over and over and over again, it will require a new API.
Or we could all use Berlin and get rid of the X monstrosity completely. Someone has to start.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
# Font anti-aliasing was developed primarily for
# those people who don't bother to set their
# displays to anything other than 640x480.
What about laptop users?!? 1152x864 is really not an option on most laptops.
Uh... NO. All things GNU are GPL'd. XFree86 is not, and cannot be GPL'd. Reason? The X Window System was written with an MIT-style license.
Yeah! I miss this as well.
Acorn's RISC OS had fully working sub-pixel anti-aliased outline fonts since RISC OS 3.0 (IIRC it came up 1991?!?). Thanks to clever caching techniques they were quite speedy even on 1MByte ARM2@8Mhz computers like my venerable A3000.
Yes. It supports the v4l devices and also I believe the Permedia inputs.
you can do whatever you want with it, as long as you don't remove the copyright notices
Or the usage permissions
This includes relicensing it under the GPL
No, you can't really relicense it unless you are the copyright holder. If you make a new derived work that includes the old code from X plus some new code that is under the GPL. The result would only be distributable under the GPL. There's a clause in the X license:
That appears to conflict with the GPL's "no additional restrictions" clause, but apparently it doesn't, since the clause has no effect (even without the clause you would not be entitled to use the the name of the X Consortium). Somwhat unclear, that part, and many people prefer not to mix X-license and GPL code (it's also rather impolite towards the person who wrote the X-licensed code).At least the X license doesn't include the obnoxious BSD licensing clause which is a pain in the backside whether or not you want to mix it with the GPL.
Look at the website for more information.
A part from the 'features' list on the web site:
"A full-featured and efficient TrueType bytecode interpreter. The engine is able to produce excellent output at small point sizes. This component has been extremely difficult to get right, due to the ambiguous and misleadings TrueType specifications. However, we now match Windows and Mac qualities."
--- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
Windows was able to include it without any rewrite to existing apps. Are we actually admitting that Windows can do something that UN*X can't? And as for the need - try going to 90% of webpages that have hard-coded font sizes in them. The suckers get scaled down so small they look like little bit blocks. With anti-aliasing, at least I could make a guess at what it was supposed to say. And yes, I run at 1600x1200. It doesn't make much difference when people force their pages (or apps) to 6 point fonts.
They set up an 3D card so that you can map an X server output to the surface of a 3D object. You could have a cube with a program running on each face, or a wall with a program or programs mapped onto it. They're essentially moving the output of the server into the texture memory of the card. That should be feasible with the TNT cards, which can pack in a LOT of memory.
Somewhat more interesting would be programs that could actually take advantage of the 3D environment. A conventional Xterm doesn't map well into that paradigm, I'm afraid. That would be an interesting field to research.
With the recent advances in head mounted displays, you could probably also make your environment immersive. That would be cool.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
-- Of course not. It's part of "the GNU system."
That's funny, all the source states that it's
still the property of the X consortium.
Microsoft looked into a 3d-desktop with its "Chrome" project
but gave up on the idea because the hardware requirements
were to great - too much memory, processor and video required.
Linux and unix don't need this since the only reason for X to
begin with was to have an xterm and a clock and a way to show
simple graphics generated from a more powerful server on what
was a dumb terminal with some graphics capabilities.
If Microsoft had trouble with this, then this might be a little too
much for some hobby programmers and students at MIT to
try, not to mention getting the needed hardware support for
every off the wall version of unix and linux.
Every OS has its niche and I think Linux makes a fine server
OS so long as it doesn't try to add much of a gui and consumer
apps. Other systems have more experience with this and I
don't think Linux hackers understand the needs of desktop users.
Most people who use Linux seem happy with a command
line so I don't see what all the fuss is about. Well, I guess
some of them want to add transparent backgrounds to their
xterms. But 3d xterms?
Posted by Scott Francis[Mechaman]:
It's _stable_ but full of annoying bugs and lack of features. The MIT-SHM stuff was broken on my i740, leading to annoyings bits in Blender and a nightmare for painting things in the GIMP. And for some reason AX4.2 doesn't support DGA nor the ability to drop resolution below 640x480, which also didn't appeal to me. The i740 XFree module works almost as fast--the only difference I've seen is that it takes it about 5 seconds to display the root window on startup.
Where can I find a list of those 4 steps?
OK, time for me to come out of the closet-- I answer other's questions, but I don't know all.
What's wrong with the one big partition approach? What's a better approach? What's most important to put on separate partitions?
Generally, I use one big partition, or use the smaller drive for / and the bigger drive for /usr. Heck-- for fun, I might install devfs, and put / and /mnt on an initrd.
I'm using the Voodoo3 server now. There are a few more bugs in it than the old S3 one I was using, but when compared to my WinNT / Win98 combination, it is still far more reliable.
The only problems I had with it were unrelated to the actual server code. I had to upgrade my poor old XFree86 3.2 to 3.3.3.1. And even that took less time (and fewer reboots) than the last time I tried to install a game in Win98.
-Joe
I am using xfstt as a truetype font server. both it and xfsft have worked well for me. And really, I don't see the need for anti-aliasing....it looks fine to me. i am happy that they are including native true-type support though.
Can't wait till it's released. Thanks to everyone involved in this project :^)
The only missing feature has been Display postscript; I didn't see it mentioned in the list of features, but I believe that work is being carried out on this.
--
We had a discussion about this very topic on a newsgroup a while back. My suggestion was to add an X extension that would basically say something like "Please antialias all of the fonts that I draw to this window" or "Please antialias all rendering with this particular font". At which point XDrawText etc. would have the same syntax and components, but the output would be antialiased, as requested.
I didn't see any mention of support for the Rage 128 chipset for 3.3.4 or 4.0 ... is there something I missed?
Glad to know I'm not the only one who remembers that horrible little line...
IAAL,BIANLY
XFree86 has been able to support multi-plane overlays for a while. When I was working on the Matrox Millennium driver, starting around August 96, the support got added eventually by one of the other dudes, um I can't remember if is was one of the other Andrews or Radek. It was easily two years ago that support was added - I haven't worked on the driver for a year now.
There's just no easy way to make a different plane depth in X as it was shipped, and only some chipsets (eg, Matrox and a very _few_ others) can support it. I certainly never tested it, although I knew it was there.
Andrew
Andrew van der Stock
It's pretty irrelevant now since it runs on more than the x86 architecture.
How about "FreedX" ?
Just my stupid opinion.
This sort of thing has cropped up before. And it has always been due to human error.
--
This sort of thing has cropped up before. And it has always been due to human error.
HAL9000
You really ought to reread the mit x license. you can do whatever you want with it, as long as you don't remove the copyright notices. This includes relicensing it under the GPL.
Please let's make one thing clear:
Since I read all the stuff about Linux in this comment: Xfree86 never was a "Linux project".
(GNOME, GTK and Mozilla aren't either.)
Yes, I know nobody said this but some readers here may get the assumption from reading comments like that.
There is a set of nice type 1 fonts that you can use with XFree and ghostscript that suck much less.
I think the name of the package was URW-fonts or something. It was available from www.gimp.org a while back.
Using that, the standard X fonts look a lot cleaner.
That would definitely break things, and probably more than you think. There's no way to do that compatibly. To do this, you'd have to have a different API for drawing anti-aliasted text.
Which isn't to say that adding that API would be a bad idea. I think it could be done in a way that was fairly convenient to use, and would degrade well on servers that didn't support scaled fonts.
The MacOS (or possibly even the hardware) handles the color bit change transparently - I don't think the application is even aware, because the system handles the dithering. Anyway, I used to have a IIfx with a 21" 4-bit grayscale and a 24-bit color monitor and everything worked (except a couple of games) with no slowdown.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
This is what we need to bring Linux to those that aren't even bright enough to use Winbloze.
I personally like the idea since it's intuitive and makes use of that 3d card (since Im not much of a gamer). This will eventually come into play anyways (since they're already working on 3d displays and input devices) so why dont we get a jump on this area of computing?
So why not guys? The first step would be a 3d version of XFree which maps 2d to 3d and a routine that maps the 2d mouse onto the top window and it's respective coordinate. This doesn't seem to far fetched since we've been doing it in so many games.
I've tried AX4X and AX5, while both were very fast, I found
them to be rather buggy. This probably depends on your
graphics card, because I know a lot of ppl who like it, and a lot
of people who think its buggy like I do.
Which is the point -- it must be a option to be with, and an option to be without -- given the
former, that latter is trivial, the X peoples'
problem is the other way around.
John_Chalisque
Imagine a desktop with depth to push all those overlapping windows (er... wormholes?) away. Hang icons on walls. Turn your view for more space, and navigating on the fly
It isn't hard if you try.
X3DM: Instead of just catching up on the latest drag'n'drop features, offering the option of fly-or-fall.
Seriously, I'm happy & productive enough with XFree+[a functional wm] as it is, but it's veery nice to read of inspirated development on areas such as multihead support - the one and only thing I miss in Macs. Inspirated, I consider, due to more than one line mentioning clarified design. Good [XFree developers' favorite item here]!
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
ehn...that hasn't always worked for me...I'm running 1600x1200, and Helvetica Bold looks kinda icky, though everything else is good...
I don't like Red Hat's text-based XConfigurator, and Sax looks nice, but it hangs my system. The current version of XF86Setup works the best, but it's pretty outdated.
The reason the small fonts do not look as good under X windows is because it doesn't anti alias them.
:)
It would be possible to get the X server to antialias text that is drawn with XDrawText(), but this would probably break some other applications (eg drawing the text again in the background colour to erase it may leave artifacts if antialiasing is used).
By using the freetype library directly, or rendering to a pixmap then reducing the size of the pixmap, it is possible to do antialiased text, but it is difficult.
The other option is to get a higher resolution monitor and run X in 100dpi mode
All this talk of how antialiasing can't be supported in X11. Too bad none of you have actually looked at the source or you would know it is in the XAA extension. Less talk and more coding would do you all good.
Sure they *can* write binary only drivers, but I think the trend toward releasing open source drivers will continue. And when we have the choice, we (the Linux community) will simply go for the open source drivers. There's no reason to tolerate binary drivers given all the problems they present.
I think hardware vendors will, in time, become cluefull in this area.
Note that the last line should read:
"as well as 3Dsupport Precision Insight's DRI stuff (which looked really excellent at LinuxExpo), Mesa, AND SGI's GLX."
Subtle but important for all of those who want/need to run GLX apps.
They may not have changed the name to just XFree yet, but they're set up xfree.org as an alias, so they're ready to do so if they so choose.
As well as having Multihead support, it also has the Xinerama extension. This allows you to join two screens to form a single display (a 2560x1024 display sounds nice :)
I remember, years ago, being blown away when someone showed me a Macintosh with multiple monitors, one of which was a low-resolution 1-bit screen, and the other of which was a giant color screen. They dragged a window so that half was on one screen and half was on the other -- and both sides of the window displayed properly.
I doubt X will ever be able to do that. I think it would require major protocol and API changes.
It's nice to see XFree86 moving along. It shows the strength of the open source model--just because the copyright holder has virtually abandoned the software, development continues.
True, The Open Group recently announced some political reorganization of X, but as far as I'm aware, they haven't hired any engineers to work on it. (The old X project team left last summer.)
Disclosure: I used to work for The Open Group, until last summer when they shut down operations in Cambridge, MA.
It is not "part of GNU" in the sense that it was written by or for the GNU project, but it is recommended and used by people in the GNU project.
Overall, it should probably not be called "part of the GNU system."
Regardless of how difficult it is to implement or how "bloated" it makes a design, the fact remains that anti-aliasing is necessary to produce a pleasant display. Ditto the rendering of fonts at small point sizes.
If you assume that what is necessary is inevitable, a fair assumption, then you can provide useful feedback. So:
What's the cleanest way to implement anti-aliased font rendering? Alpha bitmaps? Which side of the client-server connection should it reside on? Can this be done without breaking any clients?
FWIW, you don't need _outdated_ Matrox cards, all Matrox cards (except the Mystique) support multihead.
If only "common" sense was actually that common...
I personally see nothing much wrong with implementing anti-aliased fonts, not implementing them as an extension (the creeping featurism can easily be solved by removing most of the legacy X font support and placing it into a demand loaded module). The rewriting of applications talked about is less than people say, since modifying GTK and Qt alone would do most of the work for most applications (though Motif maybe a lost cause (in this respect -- it's a lost cause in general anyhow)). That said, does anyone have any pointers to discussions detailing how exactly AA would break applications? Also, for use on laptops, adding a 19" 1280x1024 monitor isn't really an option -- and being able to use both AA and sub-pixel AA would be useful -- the ability to have AA should be considered far more important than actually having AA (think maximal generality) such that it could be added and removed transparently to the applications using the display. Given that UN*X is known for its tendency to have its tools used in ways not originally designed for them (e.g. using a tar-tar pipe to recursively copy a directory and preserve the file dates), ruling a feature out becuase "I can just get a higher res display" seems to be very short sighted.
John_Chalisque
do this as root:
/mnt/c/windows/fonts/ in my case...
/usr/local/share/fonts/ttf/
/usr/local/share/fonts/ttf/
/usr/local/share/fonts/ttf
get the fonts from wherever.
cp *.ttf
(or wherever - make sure to create the directory, if it doesn't exist)
cd
(go to the directory)
ttmkfdir -o fonts.dir
(make the font index file)
chkfontpath --add
(add the directory to the font path)
/etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs restart
(restart the font server)
There. All done. Use chkfontpath --list to see your current fontpath, chkfontpath --remove to remove entries. Try chkfontpath --help for a summary
Choice of masters is not freedom.
Will this new release support Xvideo? I remember Metrolink supports this in their Xservers, and the current release of XFree doesn't. Perhaps they call it by another name...
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Most things that makes Linux good are not really
Linux projects...
And that's the way it should be...
Xfree86 definitely is a big part if the system
that most people refer to when talking about Linux...
/Daniel
-- No, no -- Not that one!
Precision Insight and SuSE are building in the direct rendering stuff, which should bring OpenGL up to Windows level and make it easier to support 3D in general
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
I assume Xinerama lets you drag windows across multihead boundaries. (I also assume that without Xinerama you have to start things on different heads DISPLAY :0 or :1)
Should Xinerama work with two different display resolutions? I eventually want to run 1600x1200 on my big head and xga on my little head/s?
Where can I get more info on Xinerama?
Ed
I'm glad that by the end of the year we'll have true multihead support, without buying MetroX and two outdated Matrox cards. Well, I'm assuming XFree will be able to do multiheaded with any of its regularly supported cards.
-NG
+--
Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works of Shakespeare.
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
What exactly is 'Multi-Head'?
I disagree that anti-alasing is needed. I have netscape using tt-fonts and it looks absolutely beautiful. Well smaller fonts look like ass but, eh, it happens.
-matt
How does XFree86 compare with other commercial X-servers? I am thinking about features, not hardware-support.
// Simon
I'm hoping that they include support LCDs attached to the ATI Rage Pro LT (the current server doesn't). Then I could finally use my Inspiron 7000 with the swank 15" screen. There's a bunch of kludges to get it working now, but they're broken under the most recent BIOS. And I need the most recent BIOS for good WinNT support and to test Win2K to see how much it sucks.
Waaah.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Will we finally be able to get similiar Windows X performance with the new OpenGL stuff ?
How do OpenGL compare to DirectX stuff ? on a normal gfx card ?
/ACAC
Unless I am mistaken (could be) the 86 in XF86 is from the x86 (ia32 intel) architechture. Now that Xfree 86 supports many architechtures isn't it about time to dropthe 86 from the name?
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
"SPOOOOOOOOON!" - The Tick, The Tick
Given the same TT font on both X and Windows, if X shows the small points worse than Windows does, then my guess would be that the hinting support in X is either missing, broken, or just not good enough.
--
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
I don't think so.
You could do all of this on the client side:
Now obviously that's pretty inefficient, and this could be done much faster on the server side, if the server had support for it. But the basic mechanism would be the same, it's just that instead of using a scratch pixmap, the server would do the blending directly onto the target drawable.
So it's easy to imagine a system where the ``draw an antialiased string'' function would do this negotiation behind the scenes: if the server supported the right extension, it could let the server do it, otherwise, it could do it the hard way. (It could even load the double-sized font for you, by looking at the font you've passed in, and keeping a cache of double-sized versions.)
The way I remember after reading about this, adding anti-aliasing would break compatibility with current X programmes, so that the new feature would have to be coded in as an 'extension' of sorts, and that would require that current X clients be rewritten to use that extension. This would either increase the creeping featurism and bloatiness that is currently present in X. Besides, as you say, it's not really needed.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I don't see that the X consortium are going to add anythin in the near future -- if X is going to have any chance (though I hope that an alternative takes over personally) is for XFree and the commercial vendors to get together and do it themselves
John_Chalisque
On deja news (which should nearly always be your first stop for answers to linux questions that aren't in any of the pieces of standard documentation to your knowledge).
Here's a relevant post:
(based on a deja news post from Alexandre Blanchette
TrueType fonts are great, but anti-aliased fonts are more important (IMHO). Does anybody know if this is part of 4.0?
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
I don't follow X news as much. Will the TT server be integrated instead of separate xfstt or xfsft? What will be the most likely source of TT fonts? What's the story?
It's on its way....
Display ghostscript
Choice of masters is not freedom.
Actually, you picked up on the true meaning. For hardware which supports transparency and dual color depths, 4.0 will implement overlays of the supported depths. But I wouldn't expect it on very many drivers. There doesn't seem to be much consistancy between video cards from different vendors and their overlay implementations.
Sure it is. The GNU system is a collection of software, some of it written by the GNU project to make a complete free Unix clone. check out the 'it all started here' link through this.
I can run XFree86 on Windows NT
Sure, you can run lots of bits of the GNU system on non-GNU systems, but they are still part of the GNU system.
XFree86 is also part of the NetBSD system, and the RedHat system, of course.
I see a potential for regression in the cause of open source software here though. I notice they say that they will make it easy for 3rd parties to write their own video drivers... But what if they decide to make them binary-only, and NOT covered by an open source license?? I don't like this idea at all, especially since it seems there are so many video card manufacturers (like ATI) who have shown that they are so unwilling to write open source code unless forced to.
Still, the sharp LCD display makes for fine text-editing over long periods.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
I personally see nothing much wrong with implementing anti-aliased fonts, not implementing them as an extension (the creeping featurism can easily be solved by removing most of the legacy X font support and placing it into a demand loaded module).
The rewriting of applications talked about is less than people say, since modifying GTK and Qt alone would do most of the work for most applications (though Motif maybe a lost cause (in this respect -- it's a lost cause in general anyhow)).
That said, does anyone have any pointers to discussions detailing how exactly AA would break applications?
Also, for use on laptops, adding a 19" 1280x1024 monitor isn't really an option -- and being able to use both AA and sub-pixel AA would be useful -- the ability to have AA should be considered far more important than actually having AA (think maximal generality) such that it could be added and removed transparently to the applications using the display. Given that UN*X is known for its tendency to have its tools used in ways not originally designed for them (e.g. using a tar-tar pipe to recursively copy a directory and preserve the file dates), ruling a feature out becuase "I can just get a higher res display" seems to be very short sighted.
John_Chalisque
A friend of mine has one of these cards and loves it for it's capabilities! Yet, ATI has not provided drivers that are stable enough or problem free to make his experience memorable. He's a hairsbreadth away from getting a TNT2; especially since X and 3D support is now available in Linux.
FUMBLE! (aka ATI's dropping the ball...)
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Installing true type fonts is much easier in RH6.0, since it installs a fonts server that supports true type fonts by default. You still have to download and install the fonts yourself, but the process now takes only 4 or so steps (instead of 10 or 15).
This is something SGI has done forever, and it's just incredibly convenient. It's so much nicer to be able to have the default visual be an 8-bit colormapped visual, but have it be possible for specific applications to use 24-bit color as needed. Most applications don't need TrueColor, so all that memory is just wasted on them. And there are things you can do in PseudoColor that are just impossible to do efficiently in TrueColor.
It also makes debugging X programs much easier, because you can test whether your application works in both PseudoColor and TrueColor modes without having to start a second X server to do it.
I wish they wouldn't call this ``overlays'', though. Overlays are something else entirely (that's the term for visuals that have transparency built in at the hardware level. That kind of thing is supported on X servers from all the major players except XFree and Sun: SGI, HP, DEC and IBM.)
Return those cards to ATI and pick up a TNT2! The frustration you save yourself will more than pay for the TNT2 card. Explain to both ATI and Nvidia that the reason you're getting rid of your ATI cards and buying TNT cards is because of the excellent Linux support.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Perhaps some ppl should read the licenses before
assuming something was written by/for the GNU?
You know the world doesn't graviate around RMS's vision of the world like some of the radicals around here would like you to believe...
--- polarbear
In X, clip masks are only 1 bit. To draw antialiased text you need a true (8 bit or whatever) alpha channel. To add 8 bit clipmasks to X would either change memory size for a bunch of stuff and break all existing apps, or implement a set of new calls for antialised text, which is what they will probably do.
Windows has had 8 bit clipmasks from Win95 on. Note that antialiasing doesn't work in most sixteen bit applications.
I'm by no means a Netscape wizard, but I've had good results with the settings below at 1024x768 resolution. You should put these changes in the ~/.Xdefaults file rather than directly altering netscape.ad
Netscape*documentFonts.generic.serif: times new roman
Netscape*documentFonts.xResolution*iso-8859-1: 110
Netscape*documentFonts.yResolution*iso-8859-1: 110
Netscape*documentFonts.maximumPoints: 35
Netscape*documentFonts.sizeIncrement: 15
Netscape*fontList: -winfonts-verdana-*-*-*-regular-12-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
I can't remember exactly what all of these do at the moment, but netscape.ad is pretty well documented. Note that each new line should only begin with Netscape*, regardless of how your browser has wrapped them here. Also note that I'm running a TT font server and have used TT fonts in these settings. You should change the font names to something suitable for your system
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it."
--Henry David Thoreau