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Red Hat Growing Pains
The following was written by Slashdot Reader def con cyber
An open letter to Red HatI have been a Redhat user since release 4.2. I have always been so impressed with your desire to advance Linux technology and bring Linux to the world with your ease of use and easy installations. My Linux experience started off downloading images of slackware Linux off of the net. When I loaded my first Redhat distribution, I swore I would never use anything else.
But now, I find myself waivering on that decision for several reasons. First, I was so excited to get my copy of Redhat Linux, I surfed on over to your website and decided to give you guys a little extra business. For the first time, I will take the plunge, dig deep into my wallet and buy the extra pack. Well, it looks like I will have to dig a little deeper than I expected $99.00. But what the hell. Lets do it.
So, for the next week, I listen to my Linux cohorts telling me about their new Redhat 6.0 Linux boxes. So, I break, I run off and buy a retail version. I still have the perks to look forward to when my plus pack comes. Again a dent to my wallet. $79.00
I load it onto my box, new install. Looks just like the old. Finally, I am up and running. A flawless install. Unfortunately Gnome is buggy and crashes (a lot). I have never spent more time rebooting my system since I ran Microsoft products on it. I type "glint" to install some additional packages. What? Glint is nowhere to be found and GnoRPM is very confusing to use. Why would you drop something tried and trued just like that.
I attempt to install Redhat on my laptop. Glitch, I am trying to install from a superdisk which is recognized as second device, second ide controller or in the Linux world hdd. Not a problem, I am sure I can override Linux trying to mount fd0 and telling it to mount hdd. I try for a few days and fail. Well, I'll try later.
I finally get my Redhat extra pack. I excitedly rip it open. I thow the powertools and application disk into /dev/floppy and spin it up. Well, they are both full of lame application which can be easily d/l'd from the net or that Redhat used to distribute with their standard distrubution. What the hell, I am going to get my moneys worth. I phone Redhat to redeem my free technical installation support about the superdisk problem.
Well, little to no wait, very impressed. I find out why in a minute. I explain my problem and my proposed solution and the tech support says cheerfully, "That sounds reasonable". After being on hold for 5 minutes she comes back and informs me that she spoke to some techs there and, "they could not understand why I wanted to do what I was asking therefor, they could not support the problem." Wow, from, "that sounds logical" to "no way in hell" in five minutes flat.
The problem has since been fixed (without the help of Redhat). Well, this past weekend I get the chance to really tweak my system. I find liks that point to old versions that were not loaded into the system (Ironically when I tried to use the Redhat 'support disk' (a hi-jack of out of date usenet lists)).
I go to the Redhat errata page. I try to dowload the update to Netscape. Broken links. So I ftp into Redhat's updates.redhat.com. What do I find, but a bunch of empty directories. This wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that the errata page had several fixes that pointed to this area. I dreamed of the day Redhat would go public and actually have been putting money aside for when it finally happened. When I read about the Redhat IPO, I wasn't the least bit excited.
Redhat, please know that I am not flaming you. I have tried to fill this with legitimate complaints. I am not anti-Redhat. You and I have been together for many years. I am an Internet content provider and run 5 boxes 24x7x365, and one laptop. All running Redhat Linux.
I have always "bought" your distribution to support you because you were supporting me the user. I have purchased every release since 4.2. I have always recommended you to newbies and helped them setup their systems.
I do not ask for perfection. But you are now charging $79.00 for your basic distribution. As a customer, I am getting less, quantity, and quality. My web server (Redhat 5.0) has been up since Sept. 98 without a glitch. My Redhat 6.0 workstation locks up every few days (much like my wife's Windows machine).
I appreciate your need and desire to win corporate business. But I am "common joe Linux user". I feel I helped you get where you are. Please tell me there is still room for me within your business plans and future goals. If not let me know now so I can find a different distribution who is still looking out for the little guy.
With respect and hope for the future of Redhat, Stuart MacKenzie
Unlike so many others, I am not turned off by RedHats business forays. If they can bring commercial software makers into the fold fine, if they can make a buck fine, if they are the foremost distribution fine. RedHat has made a huge contribution to the Open Source movement and they are still doing it to this day. They are providing hackers like Miguel and Alan Cox with livelihoods to code Linux and release all of it under the GPL. You can still load one copy onto any number of computers ( unlike Caldera but that is another story. ) It's total crap that Redhat is selling out.
.3 to .9 for no apparent reason and even Miguel admitted the 1.0 release was too early. It is obvious that Gnome was falling quickly behind KDE and needed a 1.0 release to stay in the race. ( No I don't want to start a flame war about K and G - but the situation speaks for itself. )
However, the quality thing is another issue. The thing that attracts people to Linux is its stability. If RH continues to release buggy distributions they are shooting themselves and us in the foot. Why should anyone switch from M$ crap to Linux crap. The 5 series distributions were decent but included a few major problems such as broken Linuxconfs and the program that erased the fstab for you. The problems with 6.0 seem to be rampant though ( Truetype fonts that stop working, Samba misconfigs, and crashes due to Gnome, etc.). Gnome may be the next big thing but it obviously isn't ready for the big time. It jumped from
As for me I am about ready to go with Debian or Mandrake Linux which is basically a fixed version of RH 6.0. I think unless RH straightens out this quality thing, they are injuring themselves as well as the rest of us by because as the foremost Linux distribution the rest of the world percieves RedHat as Linux.
Being in the new york startup scene, I know the quiet period is an SEC requirement for a fact. The rule seems to be intended to prevent self promotion by the company going public. The idea is that the company files and the investors use the filing to judge what the market value should be. Based on the rules and format of the filing itself, it is probably a way of forcing the investor to look at a company in more objective terms than a normal press release.
-Dave
David Stenglein daves@bluetape.com
Check out http://www.sputnik7.com for a cool interactive music video experience. (Blatant Plug. We're nowhere close to our quiet period ;-)
I can see your understanding of being fustrated at the pains of RedHat linux, but there are some simple solutions which I will list.
1. Don't pay that much for linux. Linux started off as a free OS, and continues to this very second.. RedHat sells their distribution for that much to provide the user with good(unable to confirm), support. I have yet to buy a distribution of linux, and the closet I ever did come to it was 2 years ago when I ordered something like 12 cds with distributions and archive packs from cheapbyes for something like under 10 dollars. I now have acces to a T1(they claim) at school, and can download it if I am really determined to, which I am not really. Either order some 2 dollar cds from Cheapbytes, linuxcentral, or linuxmall, or download it using someone's fast link. Don't pay Microsoft prices.
2. When you are having problems, don't call RedHat support, as you have already learned. Every tech support department at companies consist of many phone operators sitting next to thousands of sheets of paper in tech manuals. When that tech support person told you that she checked with the techs, she was most likely meaning she opened a few manuals and looked around, not finding anything. Whenever I have problems, which dosen't happen much cause linux is mostly good to go when you have a good base install and maintaince, I go to IRC and ask. Sometimes it might be a gimp question, or gtk, or something. But I access IRC on one of the many networks and find the right people to ask what to do and how to fix it. 100% free and most of the times it's only a matter of minutes before someone can help me with the problem.
3. Extras pack. Hey now, no need for that. I have never even seen an extras pack, much less bought one. All it is, like you found out, is a bunch of applications that the RedHat people went and collected off the internet. Spend the ten minutes and download those few megs of programs that you really need to use.
I hope that this will guide others in aqiring linux and using it, as it will save you money, time, and paitence. Linux was started as a open source free project, let's keep it that way and not taint the idea that started it all.
Yes, but the point of the post was that he had been actively supporting them this whole time, actually giving them money when he didn't have to because he believed in what they were doing - and this is how they repayed him.
I think it is a good thing when people who can afford to support Linux distros/developers/etc., do so. They help to make all this possible. This post is all about trying to determine whether it is worthwhile to continue supporting RedHat when things have changed for the worse this much. In the spirit of the post this man should instead turn his business over to SUSE or Debian or someone else, where the money will be actively used to enhance Linux for the rest of us rather than whatever RedHat has been doing with the money (and let me say that they have helped the cause out a lot, but it doesn't seem to be quite as high-quality help lately).
Charlie, someone who owns 1 legitmate copy of RedHat Linux 5.2 and is probably going to buy the next Debian distro next time instead, if he doesn't just switch to *BSD
Hey, everyone, listen damnit!
From the Red Hat site:
Red Hat Linux Core
For the hard core Linux users, this comes with only CDs and the Official Red Hat Linux Installation Guide.
$39.95
There $40 bucks. IT'S $40 BUCKS, NOT $79, NOT $99.
Yeah you don't get the source CD (?), you don't get the Applications CD, the "Getting Started Guide" nor installation support.
But who cares? All that's available elsewhere (and it's usually better elsewhere).
If you still have a problem with $40 then simply DOWNLOAD it, but stop whining about $79 for Red Hat 6.0.
Thanks.
Sounds like the netscape + 24bpp pimaps problem. Here is the answer from the XFree86 FAQ:
Q.D3- wrong colors or black and white images in 24bpp modes for Netscape, xanim, WABI and others This is a long-standing problem with all those client programs. It is NOT a problem in XFree86.
Technical details: it is caused by a relatively new feature of XFree86 (24bpp modes with 24bpp pixmaps) that is very poorly understood by many client authors: they assume 32bpp pixmaps instead of asking the XFree86 server for those details. Others (like Netscape) do ask for the pixmap size, but since they don't support 24bpp pixmaps, they fall back to using 1bpp (monochrome) pixmaps...
The current public versions of XFree86 can only support a 1:1 mapping between the framebuffer depth and the pixmap depth. Some commercial Xservers support 32bpp pixmaps in 24bpp modes, and hence they present an interface to client programs that happens to match their assumptions. XFree86 4.0 will also support this feature.
There are two possible solutions to this right now:
- do not use 24bpp modes, but rather 16bpp or 32 bpp modes. 32bpp is best, but it requires more video memory than 24bpp.
- don't use broken X clients. There are patches for Netscape and even compiled binaries on the net that fix this bug.
The part of his experience I found most apalling was their refusal to support their product because they didn't understand *why* he wanted to use it (in that way). As a sysadmin, I sometimes uncover a bug by doing something that the tech's don't undertand. The fact that they don't understand *why* is no reason to refuse support. I will not accept that excuse -- unless they can tell me a better way!
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