Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the trekking-westward dept.
WebMaven writes "Well, acording to his page, Raster will soon join Mandrake as an employee of VA Linux. Congratulations, Raster, we can't wait to see what you'll code next! "
Where could he have worked that he would not have been competing with red hat then where he could use his skills. Sorry, that's just not cool to say that someone can't make a living.
Anyhow, while RH and VA market to the same group, it is a bit much to call us competitors. I mean, we ship red hat on our boxes all the time.
As far as N.C. and his contract, Raster wasn't under contract, he was an employee, and he didn't go home to work with his bud, if so, he'd be in austrailia. So while you may take it as sleasy, and I understand why you feel this way, I disagree with you.
Chris DiBona VA Linux Systems
-- Grant Chair, Linux Int. VP, SVLUG
--
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Not trying to be rude here, but I really don't think everytime somebody gets a new job it ought to be put up in neon lights. People change jobs every day. It doesn't really change the flow of things... neither does it have *much* bearing here.
And as to "compatibility", Redhat has always stuffed executables in non-standard places, and if no effort is made to have enlightenment look for those files in the right place, it may very well not run. Hence my concern.
Because they simply don't need to bother - the job is already being done. With no compelling reason to do so, they probably won't (inertia is a powerful effect).
There's nothing sleazy about that. VA and RedHat don't compete at all. Hell, I'm sure you can buy a VA system with RedHat on it. The fact that he's going to work for another company, in the "same industry" as you call it, just proves that he loves working in Linux environments.
I say let the guy do whatever the hell he wants to. It's a free country and he's doing his part to make parts of it a little free-er.
I am a relative newbie to Linux, having started using it just last fall. As such, there are many personalities and things about it I still do not know. Raster to me was a non-entity until the recent postings started by him over his little fall-out with Redhat and his moving on to greener pastures.
Having read these postings, here's my impression of Raster: a very valuable member of the Linux community, the developer of enlightenment, a passionate person, a remarkably immature person, a really crappy speller:), a person lacking somewhat in good judgement.
Now I admit I have never met the guy and impressions can always change, but the negative impressions I (and others?) have of him are his own doing and do need mending. Such is the problem with spouting off in a public forum without first calming down and attempting to establish some perspective.
I am not "against" Raster. But I do have a fairly negative impression of him. So, I tend to agree with the sentiment: who cares? I'm kinda tired of hearing about him too.
I post these thoughts for two reasons: 1. To inform Raster, in case he cares, how his public actions impact others' perceptions of him, and 2. To highlight the need for everyone to be rational and fair-minded when participating in a public forum.
This is not a major issue. But the recent posting by Mindcraft of the venemous hate mail they received from some members of the Linux community is an embarrasment. Everyone should take a reality check before firing off some irrational, profane, hate-filled message for all to read.
Some of use have work visas - we have to lie and protect our butts cause the INS screws us over and basically 1. takes months to process visaS 2. only allows you to work for 1 company on a visa so thus if you at all let on you're goign to get another visa you're screwed and get kicked out so you have to lie to save your own butt. if the INS were like immigration dpeartments of other coutnires you'd have a work visa that let you work for anyone - not just one company. I've been mumbling about north carolina for a long long time if you check the news on that page since it started. if i werent on a work visa I would have changed jobs months ago. I had to keep quiet and seemingly happy to keep myself in the country. if you don't understand any of the above you've never been one of the "lucky" people in this country on a work visa - just ask anyone on one or who has been on one. now I can get on with code again...:)
-- --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Re:When does he plan to leave VA?
by
dattaway
·
· Score: 2
Do you lack slack, or forget your afternoon nap? There's nothing wrong with diversifying experience and some people have a problem with marrying a job. Wisdom is gained when one jumps the fence to the greener side. Its great seeing independent code warriors who decide what risks to take in furthering their goals, whatever they may be.
I'm just a happy E user since I compiled the tarballs on my Redhat 4.1 a few years ago. It was inspirational. It takes a creative person to do projects like E. If an author of a creative project decides to move, it only leads to greater opportunity. Its all GPL after all and he isn't taking his ideas with him when he moves. The code has always been shared and will live the duration of this universe...
When you do a job and you are paid for it, you keep your mouth shut and do whatever the job it is that you are paid to do
You are a servant to your company, a wage slave, that's the cold hard truth.
No, I don't think so. You have a strange perception that if you go to work for a company, you sold yourself to that company body and soul and now have to obey orders like a mindless automaton. Now, the company may want you to believe this, but that doesn't make this true.
I tend to think about this in another way. You and the company are independent entities and you two have a contract (which may be written or implicit) that says "I, the person, will do certain stuff for the company, and in compensation for that the company will give me money and other benefits". Generally there is nothing in that contract which says "shut up and do as you are told", and if there is I would have great doubts about entering into it.
Of course the situation, the power balance if you will, depends greatly on how valuable job-wise you are. If you are a data-entry clerk the company probably treats you as completely fungible and you may have problems persuading it that you are somebody and not something. On the other hand, if you are Rasterman or somebody with the same coding skills, you are valuable and the company better accomodate you or you'll find sweeter pastures elsewhere. This all is a power game between you and the company, but nowhere it is set in stone that you have to bend over and take it.
This, everybody, is called a "work ethic".
This, everybody, is NOT called a "work ethic". This is called "I believe I am a little piece of shit that the great and magnificent company is doing a great favor to by not kicking me out of the door, although I deserve it". Work ethic, in case you are interested, has been developed in medieval Europe by Protestants and it basically holds that doing one's job properly and assidiously is pleasing to God, while engaging in entertainment, leisure and other non-useful activities is sinful and wasteful of one's life. If anything, people with strong work ethic tend to value what they do and do not accept "shut up and do what you are told" approach.
Kaa
--
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
If you don't like your job, T.S. You can always quit. Bitching about it only annoys other co-workers and management and is completely useless.
Did I say anything about bitching and whining? I was mostly talking about self-respect, not about complaining because you don't like something.
Companies remain competitive, you are a commodity you are not an individual.
Well, that's where we disagree, don't we? But it's OK by me. You can continue thinking of yourself as a commodity, and I'll continue thinking about myself as an individual.
Do yourself a favor and talk to somebody that's gone through the Great Depression. You're a spoiled little brat, not an adult by any means.
Heh. Think I am an idealistic college kid with stars in his eyes? You should try surviving on $575 a month with a wife and two kids, no right to work, no medical insurance, no welfare, no nothing. Try it, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
I'd roll over you like a steamroller if you got in my way because when it comes to my job it's my fanancial security that comes first and then whatever my boss wants to pimp me to second.
Just in case we ever meet, please remind me to never have any dealing with you. There are a couple of people like that at my workplace and I find them intensely unpleasant.
Kaa
--
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
If you have a wife and 2 kids and live off from $575 you should have used that piece of grey matter called a brain before you put yourself into that situation. Instead of simply putting yourself into a bad situation you've brought your wife there and two complete innocents that YOU decided to have. It's your own fault, you cannot run away from responsibilities that you brought entirely upon yourself.
I would never put myself in that situation much less drag 3 other people into it. Don't expect pity from me, expect contempt from me. Your stupidity will profoundly effect your children for their entire lives.
Well, I never said this situation lasted. This happened a fairly long time ago and had nothing to do with either idealism of having fun at work. If you would have read the paragraph carefully you should have guessed why and how that happened (er... I am assuming standard thinking abilities, I am not sure that applies). Right now my kids are doing quite well, thank you very much. Both me and my wife make six-figure salaries so I don't think putting the kids through college is going to be a problem. That, by the way, is a direct consequence of the fact that I with my family had to manage being very poor for some time.
You better get your fucking priorities straight. Work isn't a game, it's work. If you have dependants, it's your duty to put them ahead of yourself, otherwise you shouldn't even have the right to have kids. You're a selfish twit, have the balls to see it. If you're not going to take care of your kids, I don't see why the fuck an asshole like you had them in the first place.
Ah, the fire in his fingers... But really, you should polish your flaming style. I've seen better flames on Usenet from aolers. Besides, it helps to know what you are talking about, but you've never experienced that, did you?
Kaa
--
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Re:Getting animated, aren't you?
by
Kaa
·
· Score: 2
Lucky for you
I don't see what luck has to do with this. I didn't win the lottery, in case you are wondering.
Oh Great Magic 8 Ball, please undecipher the paragraph since the author cannot verbalize it himself."
It seems that I was right about undeveloped thinking abilities. Oh well, this was becoming boring anyway.
You've certainly put me in MY place.
You are a commodity, remember? That's what your place is.
Kaa
--
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
"compatible" - well realize that we do run on a number of different systems and platforms and archetectures (sp?) so the compatibility shouldn't be a problem.
Both raster and myself are spending a lot of time these days working on imlib and enlightenment (respectively). There's a lot of stuff on the whiteboard right now to do. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Compatible - whats with that? E runs on Linux. if RH wishes to use it they can. I dont' intend to make it incompatible. If it doesnt fit what they want (and it likely won't as they want gnome and E is not part of the gnome project thus it clashes in several departments and will continue to do so) that's up to them. as for the future plans for E - it'll becoem a desktop shell - it's not going to become part of KDE or GNOME - it's just going to do a job - manage windows, let you launch and manage applications, and eventually manage files. thats it.
-- --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
but we want to know how this is going to impact the devel of E.
This means only good things for the development of Enlightenment. Not only will raster and mandrake be working for a company which supports free software, but they will be working together at the same company, and even in the same room. This will facilitate the exchange of ideas in a much more effecient and productive manner than ever before.
In fact, I have accepted a position with VA as well and will be joining them shortly. I am going to be working on developing Eterm and helping raster and mandrake with Enlightenment, Imlib, etc. Having us all together means features -- more, better, and faster.
Also.. will any effort be made to keep E compatible with future redhat releases? I know they rather soured the milk on this, but alot of us still use redhat..
Enlightenment was compatible with RedHat Linux before raster ever went to work for them. Furthermore, VA ships RedHat on its servers.
-- Michael Jennings | HPC Systems Engineer, Lawrence Berkeley National Lab | Author, Eterm (eterm.org)
What is up with you guys? Shesh, Raster is a friend to some of us, and personally, I think it's great that he got a job at VA. They are great guys, and Raster is a great guy as well. CmdrTaco, Enlightenment, Raster, linux, and a number of us go back before slashdot even existed, so if Cmdrtaco and the gang want to post about him getting a new job, then why the heck shouldn't they be able to? If you don't like it, don't read it. It's not like every news story out there has to be some mind boggling new technology or corperate lawsuit. Raster is one of us, and he doesn't deserve some of the crap he's been getting on these forums. Some of the critisizm is legitimate, but the flames and pot shots certainly are not.
I'm afraid I have to agree. He wrote a cool window manager, and a couple other things. Get over it. Is the Linux community that starved for celebrities?
As a native American born in Southern California, this immigration crap disturbs me. What is the point in work visas and all these border laws? To exploit labor and legalize illegal labor? If someone feels this country is a nice place and wants to work to help build a better community here, I welcome the compete with our native lazy butts. Someone please enlighten me why we have people without "full citezenship" that can have all rights and property terminated when basic human freedoms wish to be expressed. I have seen people stuck in bad marriages, slaves to their spouses, just because of citizenship.
I think it is high time the Linux/OSS/*BSD and/. community realize that there probably is a lot of M$ dronez paid to impersonate Linux/*BSD and/. users here on/. and the other Linux OSS sites and newsgroups. The old OS2 guys say this is the same they did to derail OS2. The difference is that now we are orders of a magnitude more and aware of the M$ juggernaut.
While it certainly wouldn't cost Microsoft much to do this, IMO it's not terribly likely. We're perfectly capable of shooting ourselves in the foot without assistance - immature people will exist in any group.
Slashdot Mirror
Anyhow, while RH and VA market to the same group, it is a bit much to call us competitors. I mean, we ship red hat on our boxes all the time.
As far as N.C. and his contract, Raster wasn't under contract, he was an employee, and he didn't go home to work with his bud, if so, he'd be in austrailia. So while you may take it as sleasy, and I understand why you feel this way, I disagree with you.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Not trying to be rude here, but I really don't think everytime somebody gets a new job it ought to be put up in neon lights. People change jobs every day. It doesn't really change the flow of things... neither does it have *much* bearing here.
And as to "compatibility", Redhat has always stuffed executables in non-standard places, and if no effort is made to have enlightenment look for those files in the right place, it may very well not run. Hence my concern.
--
Because they simply don't need to bother - the job is already being done. With no compelling reason to do so, they probably won't (inertia is a powerful effect).
There's nothing sleazy about that. VA and RedHat don't compete at all. Hell, I'm sure you can buy a VA system with RedHat on it. The fact that he's going to work for another company, in the "same industry" as you call it, just proves that he loves working in Linux environments.
I say let the guy do whatever the hell he wants to. It's a free country and he's doing his part to make parts of it a little free-er.
I am a relative newbie to Linux, having started using it just last fall. As such, there are many personalities and things about it I still do not know. Raster to me was a non-entity until the recent postings started by him over his little fall-out with Redhat and his moving on to greener pastures.
:), a person lacking somewhat in good judgement.
Having read these postings, here's my impression of Raster: a very valuable member of the Linux community, the developer of enlightenment, a passionate person, a remarkably immature person, a really crappy speller
Now I admit I have never met the guy and impressions can always change, but the negative impressions I (and others?) have of him are his own doing and do need mending. Such is the problem with spouting off in a public forum without first calming down and attempting to establish some perspective.
I am not "against" Raster. But I do have a fairly negative impression of him. So, I tend to agree with the sentiment: who cares? I'm kinda tired of hearing about him too.
I post these thoughts for two reasons:
1. To inform Raster, in case he cares, how his public actions impact others' perceptions of him, and
2. To highlight the need for everyone to be rational and fair-minded when participating in a public forum.
This is not a major issue. But the recent posting by Mindcraft of the venemous hate mail they received from some members of the Linux community is an embarrasment. Everyone should take a reality check before firing off some irrational, profane, hate-filled message for all to read.
My humble $.02 anyhow...
Some of use have work visas - we have to lie and protect our butts cause the INS screws us over and basically 1. takes months to process visaS 2. only allows you to work for 1 company on a visa so thus if you at all let on you're goign to get another visa you're screwed and get kicked out so you have to lie to save your own butt. if the INS were like immigration dpeartments of other coutnires you'd have a work visa that let you work for anyone - not just one company. I've been mumbling about north carolina for a long long time if you check the news on that page since it started. if i werent on a work visa I would have changed jobs months ago. I had to keep quiet and seemingly happy to keep myself in the country. if you don't understand any of the above you've never been one of the "lucky" people in this country on a work visa - just ask anyone on one or who has been on one. now I can get on with code again... :)
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Do you lack slack, or forget your afternoon nap? There's nothing wrong with diversifying experience and some people have a problem with marrying a job. Wisdom is gained when one jumps the fence to the greener side. Its great seeing independent code warriors who decide what risks to take in furthering their goals, whatever they may be.
I'm just a happy E user since I compiled the tarballs on my Redhat 4.1 a few years ago. It was inspirational. It takes a creative person to do projects like E. If an author of a creative project decides to move, it only leads to greater opportunity. Its all GPL after all and he isn't taking his ideas with him when he moves. The code has always been shared and will live the duration of this universe...
This is slightly newer news...
:-)
Rasterman has been in the cube next to Mandrake for a few weeks now. Can't wait to see what excellent hackish software comes out of VA now
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
When you do a job and you are paid for it, you keep your mouth shut and do whatever the job it is that you are paid to do
You are a servant to your company, a wage slave, that's the cold hard truth.
No, I don't think so. You have a strange perception that if you go to work for a company, you sold yourself to that company body and soul and now have to obey orders like a mindless automaton. Now, the company may want you to believe this, but that doesn't make this true.
I tend to think about this in another way. You and the company are independent entities and you two have a contract (which may be written or implicit) that says "I, the person, will do certain stuff for the company, and in compensation for that the company will give me money and other benefits". Generally there is nothing in that contract which says "shut up and do as you are told", and if there is I would have great doubts about entering into it.
Of course the situation, the power balance if you will, depends greatly on how valuable job-wise you are. If you are a data-entry clerk the company probably treats you as completely fungible and you may have problems persuading it that you are somebody and not something. On the other hand, if you are Rasterman or somebody with the same coding skills, you are valuable and the company better accomodate you or you'll find sweeter pastures elsewhere. This all is a power game between you and the company, but nowhere it is set in stone that you have to bend over and take it.
This, everybody, is called a "work ethic".
This, everybody, is NOT called a "work ethic". This is called "I believe I am a little piece of shit that the great and magnificent company is doing a great favor to by not kicking me out of the door, although I deserve it". Work ethic, in case you are interested, has been developed in medieval Europe by Protestants and it basically holds that doing one's job properly and assidiously is pleasing to God, while engaging in entertainment, leisure and other non-useful activities is sinful and wasteful of one's life. If anything, people with strong work ethic tend to value what they do and do not accept "shut up and do what you are told" approach.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
If you have a wife and 2 kids and live off from $575 you should have used that piece of grey matter called a brain before you put yourself into that situation. Instead of simply putting yourself into a bad situation you've brought your wife there and two complete innocents that YOU decided to have. It's your own fault, you cannot run away from responsibilities that you brought entirely upon yourself.
I would never put myself in that situation much less drag 3 other people into it. Don't expect pity from me, expect contempt from me. Your stupidity will profoundly effect your children for their entire lives.
Well, I never said this situation lasted. This happened a fairly long time ago and had nothing to do with either idealism of having fun at work. If you would have read the paragraph carefully you should have guessed why and how that happened (er... I am assuming standard thinking abilities, I am not sure that applies). Right now my kids are doing quite well, thank you very much. Both me and my wife make six-figure salaries so I don't think putting the kids through college is going to be a problem. That, by the way, is a direct consequence of the fact that I with my family had to manage being very poor for some time.
You better get your fucking priorities straight. Work isn't a game, it's work. If you have dependants, it's your duty to put them ahead of yourself, otherwise you shouldn't even have the right to have kids. You're a selfish twit, have the balls to see it. If you're not going to take care of your kids, I don't see why the fuck an asshole like you had them in the first place.
Ah, the fire in his fingers... But really, you should polish your flaming style. I've seen better flames on Usenet from aolers. Besides, it helps to know what you are talking about, but you've never experienced that, did you?
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
"compatible" - well realize that we do run on a number of different systems and platforms and archetectures (sp?) so the compatibility shouldn't be a problem.
Both raster and myself are spending a lot of time these days working on imlib and enlightenment (respectively). There's a lot of stuff on the whiteboard right now to do.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
Compatible - whats with that? E runs on Linux. if RH wishes to use it they can. I dont' intend to make it incompatible. If it doesnt fit what they want (and it likely won't as they want gnome and E is not part of the gnome project thus it clashes in several departments and will continue to do so) that's up to them. as for the future plans for E - it'll becoem a desktop shell - it's not going to become part of KDE or GNOME - it's just going to do a job - manage windows, let you launch and manage applications, and eventually manage files. thats it.
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
but we want to know how this is going to impact the devel of E.
This means only good things for the development of Enlightenment. Not only will raster and mandrake be working for a company which supports free software, but they will be working together at the same company, and even in the same room. This will facilitate the exchange of ideas in a much more effecient and productive manner than ever before.
In fact, I have accepted a position with VA as well and will be joining them shortly. I am going to be working on developing Eterm and helping raster and mandrake with Enlightenment, Imlib, etc. Having us all together means features -- more, better, and faster.
Also.. will any effort be made to keep E compatible with future redhat releases? I know they rather soured the milk on this, but alot of us still use redhat..
Enlightenment was compatible with RedHat Linux before raster ever went to work for them. Furthermore, VA ships RedHat on its servers.
Michael Jennings | HPC Systems Engineer, Lawrence Berkeley National Lab | Author, Eterm (eterm.org)
What is up with you guys? Shesh, Raster is a friend to some of us, and personally, I think it's great that he got a job at VA. They are great guys, and Raster is a great guy as well. CmdrTaco, Enlightenment, Raster, linux, and a number of us go back before slashdot even existed, so if Cmdrtaco and the gang want to post about him getting a new job, then why the heck shouldn't they be able to? If you don't like it, don't read it. It's not like every news story out there has to be some mind boggling new technology or corperate lawsuit. Raster is one of us, and he doesn't deserve some of the crap he's been getting on these forums. Some of the critisizm is legitimate, but the flames and pot shots certainly are not.
I'm afraid I have to agree. He wrote a cool window manager, and a couple other things. Get over it. Is the Linux community that starved for celebrities?
As a native American born in Southern California, this immigration crap disturbs me. What is the point in work visas and all these border laws? To exploit labor and legalize illegal labor? If someone feels this country is a nice place and wants to work to help build a better community here, I welcome the compete with our native lazy butts. Someone please enlighten me why we have people without "full citezenship" that can have all rights and property terminated when basic human freedoms wish to be expressed. I have seen people stuck in bad marriages, slaves to their spouses, just because of citizenship.
While it certainly wouldn't cost Microsoft much to do this, IMO it's not terribly likely. We're perfectly capable of shooting ourselves in the foot without assistance - immature people will exist in any group.