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420 Gigabyte Hard Drives
Zach Garner writes "IBM is introducing a new line of harddrives, code named "Shark", that will start from 420gig and go up to 11 terrabyte." Now thats what I'm
talking about. This kinda stuff has got to make the film industry as
nervous as the recording industry. But mainly it just makes things
like digital audio and video mixing a lot easier. (Update: 07/27 01:32 by CT : Course a
few people noted that these things are the size of refrigerators so
its not like their gonna be desktop toys any time soon either)
So dumb... The whole posting should be moderated
down to... "-1, posted before thinking"
There would never be such a huge jump in shipping
drive capacity... and you can bet on that.
Well. At 64kbps, you get about 2 minutes of MP3 per megabyte. So the "disks" can take between 1Y:218D:8H:00M:00S and 41Y:312D:18H:40M:00S worth of music, not including leap years.
:)
--
Joao "a cup of espresso, a free few minutes, a spreadsheet, and a visit to slashdot is what mornings are all about" de Souza
Saw a story on them yesterday. They start at $50,000 for the low end and range as high as $120,000 for the 11 terabyte model. Pricing structure is based on how much you want to store. The machines are customized for your storage needs by IBM.
What will be the actual physical dementions. Will I be able to buy Empeg unit with this in it?
I ate my tag line.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
No amount of scanning for typos will get someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're" to correct it. And on top of that, it's really disheartening to see that Taco doesn't have the time/inclination/energy to read fully and comprehend a piece that short. He seems particularly susceptible to this sort of deception with regard to hard drives- remember the 30Gb removable hard drive a few months ago that turned out to be a tape drive?
"Misinformation for Nerds. Stuff that sounded too good to be true, so I posted it without looking and tossed on a rambling, semicoherent comment filled with misspellings and punctuation errors."
And of course, you do, despite the fact you can't differentiate between a plural and a possessive...
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
People are dumb. Think how often you read: your's their's wan't think's
Romen
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
who the fuck says you have to read it? dont like it then go elsewhere... fucking gimps. it happens to be robs call what he puts on his page...
Give them a chance! First off, I'm no suit (in fact i cant even get a job anywhere, I'm only 13),But it takes a while for everythng to get settled. you dont just go blow off $10,000 and then get a bunch of office clowns that just drink coke all day and dont find news. I'm surprised andover.net has even let them keep /. all to themselves and give them money and employees and the whole bit. Give it a few months.
-TeChY
Romen
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
first thing you need to do is learn how to spell you stupid shit.
FIRST OFF, I USE FREEBSD! IT DONT PERFORM BETTER UNLESS YOU HAVE ALL DAY TO FOOL WITH IT! SECOND OFF, THESE "FACIST" MODERATORS AS YOU CALL THEM ARE THE SLASHDOT USERS THEMSELVES!
I'm feeling better now. Moderators, feel free to -2 this.
Is it just me, or has Slashdot been turning lame the past week or two?
It's just you.
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
Yeah, but it'd look cool sitting in the corner of my kitchen.
"What's that?"
"Oh, that's my computers drive array."
Yes, I have no dining table in my kitchen. Just two desks and 6 computers.
Airneil.
capacity is not the issue. Bandwidth is.
Look. So he made one little mistake and everyone jumps down his throat. He just said they were disks and didn't say they were arrays. How many times have you posted something that ended up being a little wrong? I would guess more than once. And Rob posts (at least) half a dozen articles a day. . .
All I'm saying is to cut him a little slack. . .
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
Yeah. Capacity isn't really an issue anymore... nearly full quality mpeg2 files already get passed around. Its just a matter of how long you want to spend downloading.... But with cable modems and DSL even that is becomming more reasonable for the average person.
You wrote: "He just said they were disks and didn't say they were arrays."
That's not true. He didn't call them "disks". He called them by the script-kiddie term "harddrive", which was completely and utterly stupid.
It's like confusing a record player for a record, or a wheel for a tire. It's the mark of carelessness.
I've seen the 11tb model, up close and personal. If you're ever feeling chilly, just go stand next to the exaust port on one. Nice & toasty.
The drives internal to it are, err, dangit, it's a TLA starting with S for Serial, not SCA, but something else.
Very fast, external interface is LVD, the unit I've worked around (closed lab) was on two 20 meter cables strung along the celing. Sure, they're loud and run hot, but you can literally store them in the closet down the hall.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
ANY word on prices?
> $3*10E6
Meme of the day: I browse "Disable Sigs: Checked". So should you.
We all know that too many GOOD stories fall through the cracks and don't get posted here. But with the few stories that do get posted, there is no excuse for not reading the article first. Especially a short one like this. Furthermore, Malda added commentary of his own to this ass-uming that the submitter's summary was correct, thus breaking a cardinal rule of /. (don't post until you read the article).
But Katz makes Malda look good. Maybe that's why he keeps him around. Nobody can be as bad as that dimwit.
Rob seems to have a policy of not changing stories (except to add on a little bit at the end) once he's posted them. Not really a great way of doing things, especially if he doesn't check stories before posting them.
What's worse, however, is the unbelievable level of ignorance this story has revealed amongst the Slashdot population.
D, who spent all yesterday working on a Sun e3500 with a knacked rootdisk plex (courtesy of Veritas Volume Manager and dodgy GBICs).
we mustn't forget:
tower = hard drive
case = hard drive
power supply = hard drive
motherboard = hard drive
as in "Press the reset button. It's on the front of the hard drive."
or "ok, I have my monitor plugged in to the hard drive, what now?"
or "I'm getting a CDBurner installed in my hard drive tonight."
As in.. 'made on Earth' trademark?
- Rainy
These storage monsters aren't terribly exciting.
_ ___________
I've used the Hitachi 5700, 7700 and 7700E. These are only exciting if throughput is the name of your game. I think some engineers around here had a cluster of workstations talking to a 7700 and a smokin' mainframe. They got approx. 300Gigs/hr in throughput.
As for anything exciting...
I guess you can back up your MP3's rather quickly...
_____________________________________
$which weed
...for my beowulf cluster.
We're "solving" chess.
With that kind of capacity to work with, you could use full quality wav files at 1440kb/s (or something like that) and still have years of music.
You americans are obviously obsessed with hard drives; here in Ireland lusers have a different perceptual problem; there's no such thing as a hard drive. It's all memory. All (all) users say "I'm out of memory" when their hard disks are full. It's become automatic for me to dismiss any complaints about memory and check the machine myself to find out what's really wrong.
How much space could OS's address in an HDD. I know 95A (eek.. I mentioned something from Macroshit!) had a limit of 2 gigs or something... Do similar limits exist for other os'es for HDD's I am talking IDE hear, but obviously there is no way that a HDD of these sizes could be anything but SCSI....).
(almost) everyone's has a refrigerator, why not another?
;-)
ya know.. even my tv takes more floor-space than my refrigerator.. so for 11 teras, i think i can make the room in my appartment.. i just don't know about the electric bill though
I figure once Be goes broke (sniff) they might just release the BeOS to the public. Wouldn't that be nice.
Wah!
When we get enough contest entries, we'll have a nice translator tool that we can all use to talk to the um, regular people. :-) Send me mail with any suggestions or programs. Any language is ok.
If we take 24 of these drives, in a RAID array, allowing $1000 for a controller... the price works out to:
24 * 365 ---> $8760
Controller -> $1000
-------------------
Total price $9876
They want more than 10 times this price... time for a reality check!
--Mike--
216gb/hour==61.44mb/second...that is about 75% of 655mbit...you'd better not backup over a network with such a device :)
0x or or snor perron?!
You don't have enough money in your pockets to buy it. Period.
heh...it's extremely cool that they've made them huge, but it's still your standard hard drive format (i.e. the whole spinning disc thing), right? If I'm thinking correctly (and I doubt I am...I've been working until 3am for the last week), wouldn't tons of disks be really really slow?
I'll be interested when high capacity static ram gets cheap and readily available...
Save the children; quit overparenting!
Having never used a RAID system I was wondering what type of access time you could expect from such a system? How would the access time to even a fairly small array of drives compare to let's say a large desktop hard drive?
Thanks
#include "mysig.h"
Not only is this a storage system rather than a (single) hard drive, but it also isn't much news. 420 GB storage cabinets - configured as RAID, JBOD or mirrored drives or whatever else you may fancy - are all over the market and terabyte-sized ones also. I haven't seen 11 TB configs, but then I haven't looked. Vendors tend to stress scalability and throughput, rather than sheer size.
Sorry to spoil the party. SAN and storage systems are buzzwords in the glasshouse these days and everyone and his/her grandmother are offering them, including IBM.
For truly huge data storage needs (petabytes and beyond) coming down the pipe, and no real technical solution in sight check Nature, June 10, 1999, p. 517. Unfortunately, you need to have a paid subscription for the online article, but you can ask me for a FAXed copy.
I seldom make grammatically correct statements
while online. Sue me.
Last hard drive you will ever buy? Yeah right and
no one will ever need more than 640k of RAM.
"Disk". Harddrive is scriptkiddie confusion.
We're onto you. You want to make us think that you
couldn't care less, that you're really nonchalant about the whole thing, but you sneakily say you
could care less, so really you do want them to
run on Linux.
How could you possibly want to run them on Linux?
Surely, BeOS is the answer to everything!
I suppose these are all good critiques... I agree with many of them, there have been stories I've submitted to slashdot, only to see them appear a few days later. They're old news to me, but news still to /.
I think maybe the problem is that not enough people are submitting news stories. I used to submit stories, but got discouraged after seeing some passed up and then alternate versions posted a bit later. I understand that some posters have different viewpoints on what exactly IS news for nerds, but it's becoming rather absurd.
This isn't really a criticism of slashdot, it's a criticism of the posters and of the userbase. The posters for deleting possible stories because they don't fit their own definition. To me, these should be left in a queue for the other posters to think about. An internal system allowing the posters to leave their thoughts on the story, and a limit in the queue of 24 hours (so a news story doesn't get stale, and to keep it tiny) Of course, worthless submissions can still be immediately deleted (e.g. flames, empty posts, comments to rob et al), but give other posters a chance to see what you thought was crap!
Now to the users- we need to browse online news sites more! When we find a decent article we need to submit, submit, submit! To increase the quality of the submissions, once you find a good story, browse other news sites for similar stories! If you can, include two or more links in your submission including, if you can, a link to a relevant page on a company mentioned in the articles! (Sorry for all the !'s, but this really would help the quality and timing of stories.)
I hope I don't get rob angry for criticizing slashdot, I know that's a no-no. But it isn't really an attack on slashdot, more a statement of the growing userbase but declining submission rate (I think.. I could be wrong here).
Anyway,
I hope Taco reads this and ponders it... it would be terrible to try to implement, I'm sure... but this is also a plea for all the users out there to 1) increase the quantity of submissions but 2) to make sure the quality of said submissions rises with quantity!
Thanks,
this
I don't know what the big deal is with all this digital stuff. Why don't they just do it *now*, through a dvd drive hooked up to an LCD projector? I'm not trying for flamebait here, but why don't they just do THAT?
And all the digital-ness in the universe is not going to make Lucas a good Director/Producer/"Storyteller" (as he likes to call himself). I thought "Episode IV" was bad, but Episode 1 included some of the worst acting, and, indeed, some of the worst special effects I have ever seen. All of the Jar-Jar people looked fake. The robots looked like clowns or something.
"Yippee!"
Digital schmigital. Citizen Kane was in black and white for god's sake.
I could care less about whether they can run Linux, as long as I know the answer to the burning quesiton: How much will they cost? An 11TB drive could be the last one I'd ever buy, but that's what they said about my 1GB drive back in '94.
For more information, click here.
I was thinking that lunabytes should be smaller, and jovibytes should be smaller. And areobytes should be redder. Who needs these silly terrabytes anyway?
Hopefully we will be seeing these outside of mainframes and SGI's before too long has passed. It makes you wonder what will happen when the capacity exists to pass around mpeg2's like people do mp3's. Any word on how large these things are going to be? The article doesn't mention it...
Would you do it for some scoobie crack?
Can't believe you turned down the opportunity to work out how much mp3 playlength you could fit on one, Rob...
From what I saw last night (I think CNN) this Shark "hard drive" is about the size of 2 refrigerators. Not exactly for the meek.
-Duke Leto
*Absolute power corrupts the absolutely corruptable.
It's not a new harddrive - It's a new storage system. Doh!
http://www.razors.org
The article isn't clear that these are individual disk drives; rather, they seem to be describing a "storage appliance" or a disk array. The kicker that they go to 11 Terabytes suggests the latter.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
If one reads the article, this is not a harddrive, but a Storage System. A quote
... up to 11 terrabytes ... the highest capacity in the industry. The new storage systems, together with a refreshed line of storage tape backup products, help organizations record and track the massive volumes of information they create each day."
"IBM said the new product line can handle from 420 gigabytes
These are huge boxes that live in enterprise data centers that have massive amounts of money.
Sorry to dissapoint.
If you had my real name, you'd use an alias too.
This is a storage system, like a raid unit not a hard drive. IBM currently sells something like this, which had the code name "seascape" which basically had an RS/6000 front end and lots of IBM's SSA serial disk on the back. It runs a version of ADSM (IBM's lousy backup program) to a local tape drive. The actual RS/6K is hidden from the user, so their is no actual console you can log in to. This is what IBM is promoting along with SSA as a "SAN" soloution.
Steve Scherbinski
Damn, that's impressive. On the other hand, my belief is that no matter *how* big your hard drive is, you'll find a way to fill it up within 6 months of purchase...
"Don't touch the bunny!"
This isn't about new drives, just drive clusters. Interesting, but not worth the heart-racing, pluse-pounding excitement I got when reading the headline...
This sig left unintentionally blank.
It's an external storage device, similar to an external RAID (in fact it probably is a RAID), it's many hard drives, plus I/O, plus a couple processors.
You can't put this in your Pentuim, you have to plug into your external Fibre Channel or Ultra-SCSI port. These sorts of systems have been around for a while, the 430GB part isn't the impressive bit. The impressive bit is it scales up to 11TB, none of them have gotten that big before in one box.
----
----
Open mind, insert foot.
As a musician . . . I WANT!!!!!
Right now I'm constantly running out of space. You could partition and run EVERY OS on the market!!! It would almost be worth it just to partition a non-networked machine and fill your alpha-array of drives!!!!
ANY word on prices?
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
A correction is required! If one reads the article carefully, it becomes revealed that this is an enterprise storage solution - ie a managed disk farm, and not a drive. It could be a drive if all the disks in the farm were mapped to one Logical drive, but thats not usually whats going on. The mention that it will compete with EMC should also be a hint that the cost will be in the high 6 digits.
Devon
Sr. Systems Engineer
Storage Mgmt.
Well, AIX's max filesystem size is 1TB, max filesize is ~64GB, and max total system addressable disk of ~2PB (that's PETAbytes).
Check out th e AIX FAQ section which goes over this.
Remember, Linux is not the only OS out there......
The next Star Wars film (Episode 2) is being shot digitally. It will be the first movie to be completely digital. By the time it is released, more movie theaters will support digital projection of the movie as well, otherwise it still requires the digital images to be printed to an analog film strip. But when we get HDTV/DVD players, it will be easy to remaster the movie onto them.
Spyky
Hmmm, I wonder you don't know...
1. These things are quite failsafe (RAID blah,blah,blah)
2. Of course this doesn't help you if the building burns down etc., that's why companies wich use stuff like this will probably have another one in an other building and sync each other via high-speed links.
3. This is still not enough, because this doesn't help if a software bug silently corrupts data and companies almost allways want to archive stuff. There are those "tape robots" (don't recall their correct name right now), basically these are systems that have some tape drives and a little robot that feeds those drives. The robot is in most cases some kind of "rotor" hidden inside. The written tapes are then stored in some very safe places (a bank's safe e.g.)
I've read some weeks ago an article how a big computer/data center handles its storage/backup. This was quite impressive!
It used to be that I heard about things first on /. and then on the radio that night or the next morning.
/. when I got to work.
/. on Monday.
Then I started hearing things on the mainstream radio news in the morning and seeing them on
Then I heard a story on NPR on Friday that I saw on
I heard about IBM's Shark on yesterday morning from a mainstream Seattle news radio station. A very lame one. Furthermore, that "reporter" got the story right the first time around and didn't need an update to tell us the drives would be big and expensive.
I'm sure this post will be moderated down as a troll or offtopic or something, but before it goes, heed the warning CmdrTaco--the quality of your readership is directly related to the quality of your news site. If you cut corners we cut out.
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
this puppy would be great for film warehousing... oh yeah baby!
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
So you're an illiterate boob. This puts you in good company with the rest of the Microsoft generation.
Illiterate, No. Boob, Perhaps.
Though I did part company with nearly all Microsoft products over two years ago, shortly after graduating the eighth grade. I feel I'm doing pretty well for myself, and I don't think that I need to have my intelligence insulted by you or anyone else.
I'm looking into setting up a data center for home use (MP3's and DVD's) and I'm trying to find the best price per MB. I'm sure other people here have researched this far better than I have. Any comments?
I'm looking to store 1 terabyte or more. Here are the prices I came up with for 1 terabyte.
HDs - ($10/Gig) cheapest ratio seems to be 17Gig IDEs for $160. That's about $10K for 1 TB when you add all the IDE controllers.
tapes - ($7/Gig) 35Gig tapes themself are only about $2/Gig, but a robotic tape changer is about $5k (anyone see any cheaper ones?) Draw back of tapes is the seek time. 30-60 seconds for a seek and at least double that for tape changes. But, caching/preseek solves this problem for music, and movies are rarely watched so a 2 minute setup time is ok by me.
Cd - More than tape and no better seek time (with changer) and it's a big hassle to burn CDs. I didn't look into for that reason.
-- Virtual Windows Project
Here are a few interesting facts taken from an interview with IBM in the latest issue of MaximumPC:
:-)
Areal Density increases 60% every year, on average. At this rate, HD capacity increase by a factor of 10 every 5 years. Considering the largest HD for sale right now is 32 GB, in 7 years we should have 1 Terabyte drives in our computers.
Yum... while I haven't filled my 18 or so GIGs yet, and I have had my computer for nearly a year... I still want more.
How would you defrag/scan disk/format/fdisk/whatever this drive? It would take about a month :)
See front page for more info.
RAID mirroring doesn't count as a backup. One accidental rm -rf / and your fscked. Speaking of fsck, how many months? Also, RAID won't help file system corruption or {h,cr}ackers.
How do you back up an 11TB system?
:-)
Simple; to another one.
Also, the 'harddrive' and 'terrabyte' misspellings were in the quoted text from the contributor.. not Rob.
Aren't those things just cut-n-pasted from the submission?
This is not a hard drive - it's an external storage cabinet. BIG DIFFERENCE, FOLKS!
And it's not *that* much bigger than what EMC offers now, since you can get their cabinets with multi-terabytes as well.
What's the saying? A terabyte here, a terabyte there...
Typically devices like these run journaling file systems, so you don't fsck them.
I forget what 8 was for.
On a related note. What's coming with disk sizes.
Isn't Seagate soon going to release its 50gb drives. What's the rest of the industry doing ?
Is also good for backing up a consistant filespace. "This system as it was at exactly midnight."
--Dan
Useful? 9 gig.
No? Try to fsck that and have the system back in a reasonable time.
What, 9 isn't enough pain? Try 25. See what happens when that once-in-a-blue-moon(that strangly happens every other week) kernel 'oops' happens and your primary storage array is down while e2fsck is looking at 100% of a 99.9% clean disk.
Is it possible to stop hyping linux for about another 12 months until there's something to hype about? Sorry to dissapoint the kiddiez, but it's NOT ready for serious applications. Personal servers, development workstations (Ha! if you want to produce code incompatable with everything else.) ... possibly samba/dhcp on a small office LAN. Scale beyond that and you start failing.
(Mind you, I said something negative about linux, so I must be a troll. Never mind the fact that I run my entire network on it so know firsthand just how "stable" it really is in production.
--Dan
This andover buyout of slashdot didn't change anything. Malda is as thick as ever about checking his stories before posting them.
This has nothing to do with a new hard drive. Please be more responsible about posting articles before wasting the time of tens of thousands of readers and making some poor sysadmin cry when his servers get slashdotted over nothing.
Ok, like 15 people have said the same thing?
People have no brains or something.
... How the heck do you back these things up? I've got a 400Gb NetApp filer (network raid array), and backing it up is a royal pain. How in the !#$^& do you backup 11Tb?
Apparently at the annual USENIX conference, there was a talk which mentioned the fact that 1Tb disks on the desktop would not be outrageous in the next few years. That's what I'd need. All of the engineers w/ 1Tb of storage space.
This is IBM trying to get more money by selling hardware and services, and cutting into the market that EMC *owns*. These guys sell boxes that can be made more redundant then a chicken joke.
In this market, 420 GB is pretty small, kind of like a bottom-of-the-line MTI system (no hardware control, just a box where you can hot-swap the drives).
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
Be nice. Rob does have a life you know. The purpose of /. is links and discussion forum. We can't expect EVERYONE to know EVERYTHING, and do you have any idea how many submitted articles the crew is looking at right now?
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
Yawn !
Nice try, but Shark is just IBM's VSS next
generation and not a harddisk. Similar storage
systems are available by EMC, Hitachi, StorageTek
etc. etc.
Orloff
/ 100 mb
:)
/usr 2 gig
/home 3 gig
swap 420gig
?
Sensei
Sensei
Linuxnewbie.org home of the NHF's
and hence can't have a single filesystem striped across it (atleast not in the sense that ext2fs is a filesystem), but I have to wonder... What is the upward limit on the size of an ext2fs partition?
The capacity of hard drives seems to be increasing exponentially, and I wonder how long ext2fs will remain serviceable. Of course, there are a few replacements already in the works, and hopefully we'll have the IRIX filesystem soon, anyway.
All that said, everything important on my system (less the mp3's) still fits on a 1.6 GB drive. Linux installs just *don't* take that much space.
Maybe I should get into sound editing to fill up my other drive...
--Lenny
With the BeOS's 64 bit fully journalled file system and it's 16 Exabyte limit (16,000,000 Gigs), I finally have a system to store all my full motion video. YES!
Here's an article with a little more information:
, 1015697,00.html
http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153
-capt.
This is a storage system, not a 'hard disk'.
These things already exist, though this one may be a cut above the rest. Sun has a storage array system, so do others.
They allow you do add dozens, or possibly even hundreds of SCSI drives, allow those drives to be accessed quickly and efficiently, and provide for raid-like striping and redundancy.
Some, you can simply buy the chassis, get it hooked up, add a few drives to it, and when you need more space, just slap a new drive in, of whatever size, and things will automatically assimilate the new space.
you=suck.
Please spell "fascist" correctly if you are going to criticize.
Keep in mind that these are not for personal use. They're going to be competing with EMC, a company that has been producing similar products for some time now. These are corporate enterprise solutions, not home hard drives.
www.niceFire.com
Funnier than a speeding bullet
Just to be informative some people that works with SSA sad that it has some bugs and that Fibre Channel is better for the same applications.
I don't think so. One important point why Apple incorporated FireWire into PowerMacs (and building a handle so one could carry it easily to the shooting location - my personal opinion) is for the film industry. Open-sourcing their streaming server is another complementing move.
Expect a Sci-Fi movie from George Lucas or somebody else to shoot a complete movie digitally.
IBM's drive array only helps and not frighten the film industry.
I know, there's a major concern for piracy (Mpeg and digital movies) but the Film and Music industry will not sit still to protect their businesses. There will be a solution.
In the meantime, bring on the arrays (wish I can own one)...
Here's one more from IBM itself. This ones a lot more detailed.
m
http://www.storage.ibm.com/press/disk/990726.ht
-capt.
terrabyte?
their gonna be?
How did this retard make it through college?
Is it just me, or has Slashdot been turning lame the past week or two?
I think I'll get news elsewhere, and third person until this lets up.. What a lame headline!!
Later!