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Caldera pulls Motorola onto Linux Bandwagon
PowerPC writes "Motorola will be announcing their alliance with Caldera Systems and Lineo according to this article over at ZD-Net.
" While I still mantain that "Lineo" is one of the dumbest names I've ever heard, Motorola will be working with both them and Caldera Systems. As would be expected from Motorla, the focus is going to be on embedded devices, and using Linux in that environment.
I bet it would have survived if it was running a 366Mhz PowerPC 750 with Linux and PHP.. maybe Phorum
Well they said they sold it already, wheres the source?
From the sound of the situation you describe, the embedded market is *ripe* for a PORTABLE, OPEN SOURCE environment, complete with scalable kernel adaptable to "real-time" scheduling, runtime libraries, and development tools.
There are thousands of penny-ante guys (like, for instance, myself) who would be in business making short-run embedded equipment if the entry fees were NOT SO HIGH. Linux ports will lower this wall, enabling a plethora of new developers to write code for and *buy* stuff like yer 8240 without having to shell out a raft of money for tools.
Is it *that* tough to port gcc to another machine?
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
Don't be so hard on the MCG. The 8240 is pretty new. I don't even no if they have a product based on it yet. Remember, these guys are only sell boards and computers, not the chips (that's Motorola Semiconductor).
I've used the "crappy" RTOS you mentioned, and was actually able to get working drivers for their boards from the MCG. You're right that they're in the business of selling hardware, but if in the process, they contribute to GNU/Linux, what's the problem. Adopting a wait and see attitude is fine, but hold back on the criticism til there's something to criticize.
Changes aren't permanent, but change is.
> motorola isn't "officially supporting" anything.
Well, maybe not offically, offically, but they are certainly contributing several patches to the Linux/PPC Kernel (to support their hardware better--they are the main reason why Linux/PPC Kernel started to support RS/6000 / CHRP / PREP Machines), gcc patches to support the unreleased (yet) Altivec PowerPC processor extentions (think MMX on steriods), and patches to better support embeded devices. So Motorola (well, at least Motorola employees, have been 'unoffically' supporting Linux on the PowerPC for almost 3 1/2 years).
> Motorola had aboloutely no connection that i am aware of with the LinuxPPC project (www.linuxppc.org).
Well if you are referring to the Linux/PPC Kernel project see above. If you are refering to LinuxPPC, Inc., LinuxPPC, Inc. used to resell Motorola StarMaxes with LinuxPPC preinstalled. Of course that ended with Apple ending cloning.
> What is more, this is not the only linux distribution for PPC macs; there is also MkLinux.
You are again confusing Linux/PPC Kernel Developers and Linux Indepent Developers with LinuxPPC, Inc.
There are actually quite a few different distros that use the Linux/PPC Kernel -- Debian on PPC, Yellow Dog Linux, An unammed in development distro by the Linux am Mac people (for germans), TurboLinuxPPC and of course LinuxPPC Inc's LinuxPPC product.
So LinuxPPC isn't the only distro using the Linux/PPC Kernel.
Assuming you're trashing VxWorks, I have to say that their kernel is rock solid. Unfortunately (for them) that's one of the few bright points (aside from GCC, which they add no value to) in an otherwise fairly mediocre (IMO) offering.
Changes aren't permanent, but change is.
Of Course So. If you where on the Linux/PPC-developer's list (sponsered by LinuxPPC, Inc.) you would have recieved most of these patches as enclosers in your mail box.
Of course, that caused a problem -- lots of people would lose or accidently discard these patches, or were not on Linux/PPC-developer so now Motorola has a website (http://www.mcg.mot.com/linux/) that has most of them avalible to patch various Linux/PPC kernels you might be running.
Isn't the 8240 just a 603r with a 106 on the same die? You cant see the PPC bus, just a memory bus and PCI bus with an I2O unit thrown in. /68332 CPM unit added (OK, an enhanced CPM)
The 8260 is the smae thing with the 860
Re Windriver..
Ugh... that code is soo nasty,layers and layers of cruft... Then there's their BSP scam, you write it, we (WR) approve it, and WR gets to sell it.
They called us once, we wanted to know how much they wanted for their OS on a per unit license, they wouldnt tell us a figure until we told them how much our product was going to sell for...
They got the quick hustle out of the office after that.
Linux is no more suited for Realtime than NT, but I've had people who wanted one or the other in a RT application. Sure you could make Linux a RTOS, but by the time you had ripped enough out, why bother, there are much better RTOS's available that have some history and support for less than the cost of my time to patch Linux to be some sort of questionable RTOS.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
Read http://www.calderathin.com/fullstory/lineoprl.html
I doubt these are the same thing.
http://www.uclinux.com. and http://www.uclinux.org
You didn't seriously think we did uclinux for the PalmPilot did you? We did it so people like the guys at Moreton Bay (and you) could build devices with a really GOOD embedded OS in them using real embedded processors (like 68k or coldfire).
It's really nice to see the Caldera people comming up to speed and moving from DR-DOS. We've spent a year at it already. Embedded linux (no, not PC104) is here now, no need to wait.
D. Jeff Dionne
Of course, "neo" meant "new" long before The Matrix, but let's not get bogged down by details... :-)
Is it any dumber than having a penguin as a mascot? The FreeBSD devil kicks way more ass.
Yup, Lineo does sound too much like a certain durable, wipe-clean floor covering.
--
Matthew
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
The only thing scarier than the name "Lineo" is probably the amount of money that went into coming up with it.
Alas, the real reason I wanted to comment here is to tell all the folks at Motorola that I can't wait till my Toaster and Cell Phone both run Linux. Hrm. I could call my toaster from my car, load some bread, check on the status of my toast when I'm almost home, adjust the light/dark setting, and have it ready, perfectly golden-brown when I arrive home from work. The future is now! (Take that George Jetson.)
SirSlud
"Old man yells at systemd"
ZDNET story
Register Article
Clip 1 from yesterday at mu.current.nu:
Motorola Computer Group is going to be at the Linux Expo August 9-12 in San Jose, CA, to talk about using Motorola hardware for embedded Linux solutions.
Related Clip from Sunday on mu.current.nu: The PPTP Server is out, brought to you by Moreton Bay. If you don't remember who they are, maybe I can remind you, in February we released the first Linux port to the Motorola Coldfire family of processors. The nice thing to note, is that coldfire hardware can be had from Motorola Digital DNA at a fairly reasonable price.
More Linux is good, but I'm not convinced that Caldera is. I hate press releases.
For example, if they're bringing us a low-cost, Unixish solution, what do we have already? A *free* Unixish solution...
If they're bringing us the ability to make embedded solutions, then what do all those car MP3 players already run on? Hmm... Linux, maybe?
Maybe I'd believe them if "OpenLinux" was an Open version of Linux, instead of something more like what the Open Group would do if they got their hands on Linux.
Now, I know that companies add enhancements into the OS, but do they have to *sell* them, without source? Hmm? That's why I like Red Hat. As well as funding development, they don't charge as much for what they also release for free, either...
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Motorola has been officially supporting Linux for a long time now. Haven't you heard of PPCLinux?
Which is goofier: Lineo (easy to scrub) or Athlon (soothes your itchy feet)? These days with product names stooping to such lows as cars called the "Aspire" (to what?) and the "Charade" (it's not really a car...), a handheld operationg system called "Wince" ("You'll WinCE when you see the performance!!"), and AOL and Sun's new "iPlanet" (waaay too close to eIBM's enew ethinking), it's really hard to tell which marketing flub is worse.
I think not...(*poof*)
Follow the link to the "Privacy Practices". After squinting for a while, I finally just did View -> Page source, and found the following tags --
-- liberally scattered throughout.
They also claim that "Personally identifiable information may include name, title, company,
address, phone number, etc. We do not require this information to obtain access to any
part of our public sites," yet accessing the MCG Linux Forum requires registration (Full Name and Email) in order to access.
The MCG Linux home page.
Deleted
My guess is that the companies who make such ridiculous names spend too much time thinking up all the money they're going to get from the sale of their product to spend time thinking about a name worth using.
Either that, or they're trying to make something goofy enough so that we'll remember it.
("What about those.. oh, what's that name again ['it was really whacky']? oh yeah, the iToaster/iMac/etc, etc, etc...")
Insert mind here.
While I have nothing against Tux or penguins in general, I once borrowed someone's Slackware CD set (3.0 I think), and it had a really cool platypus where the penguin is nowadays, and I must say that I like the platypus a lot better.
-- $SIGNATURE
Once upon a time, there was a man named Linus Torvalds. Him was very smart. Him was so smart that him created a new operating system. Him called the system Linux. This name is a combination of Linus and UNIX. After making he, him asked for some help on the Internet and him got many responses. So many people wanted to help he that the new operating system eventually took over the world. Linus, what a guy. Him was very smart.
One day, him met a nice girl named Sarah. Her was very pretty. Him wanted to marry she so him gave she a nice big ring. The ring, he was so big! Her saw it and almost fainted. Eventually her woke up and her said yes to him's proposal. Them got married and them lived happily ever after.
WHATS WRONG WITH THIS STORY??????
Wait till they come out with the microsoft version of it. You'll come home to a burning pile of rubble only to realize theres a few "bugs" to work out of it
Any time you want in fact. At the risk of sounding like a commercial, that's the sort of thing we've been doing for a year now. uClinux.
.com
:-)
http://www.uclinux.org and
Hardware, firmware and software for anything from really small embeded systems right up through the larger ones most people think of when you say Embedded Linux.
Most of the embedded market goes to Motorola. The 68000 family is really a workhorse in that industry because of the fantastic on chip modules that are available from the different 683xx family members.
PCS phones, pagers, PDAs with 68328 or 68EZ328 are cropping up everywhere. 68331 and 68332 are used in piles of applications. Anything timing critical is a candiate for the 332, it has a little microcode engine seperate from the CPU for uSec accurate timing. 68302 and 68360 have the coolest serial communication ports (they even do a few channels of on chip ethernet). The ColdFire series is building on this by adding 50+ mips cores to simmilar on chip modules.
uClinux is the Linux derivative that runs on all of these. Like I said, that what we do, support for embedded (uC)linux running on processors like this
D. Jeff Dionne
lineo is good. bugs can't hide in lineolum the
way they do in carpets.
First let me state that It's not Caldera that made the MCG jump onto the linux BangWagon. It's been some time now that they speak and send patches to the linuxppc-dev list. They have openend a specific linux site one week ago or so (see the above link).
Too bad they are pushing the embedded market
I whish some linux hardware vendors would get in touch with the Motorola MCG to get Quantities of MB (603e, 604e, dual 604e's and 750 based ones) so Linuxppc users yould have the oportunitie to by non Apple branded hardware.
Bad thing is the price of a single board that why we need a Big partner( like VA) to have them in quantities. ...]
There a discussion now on the debian PPC list on how to get PPC boards ( beginning of the thread on PPC boards )- It was said that IBM would licence the desing of its longtrail MB and that they could be easely manufactured [ if someone is listening there a Market for PPC based motherboard - With Linux as the OS - If enough boards are sold then I'm sure you could interest the QNX/Amiga people and the BeOS people too - You just need to launch the market using Linux,
none Yet.
<nitpick>
Actually, it's "LinuxPPC" (without the slash).
</nitpick>
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
is this helping the rtLinux port ?
as I understand it this is for embedible procs and such like so you can do real time sound stuff as well as fly your plane well
airbus use 5 machines running BSD they calculate then argue who is right the majority wins
what we need is stuff like this done with linux as you get smart people sorting things out !
ah well
I have no faith in wings
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy a PPC-based laptop with 3-button
rodent on which your could run the Linux of your choice? It's nice that
I can run Linux on x86-based laptop hardware, but some hardware
*choices* would be even better.
Believe me this whole thing is a crock of shit.
Embedded Motorola is NOT Motorola. These guys are still living in the stone age. I just talked to our FAE, and he doesn't know jack shit about embedded linux/egcs/gcc (or even care). They pass Diab all the appropriate stuff and wash their hands of it. They don't want to be in the compiler business, and they don't want to be in the OS business.
Open source embedded design has a LONG way to go. There are so few developer/end users compared to desktop systems. To make matters worse, most of the embedded engineers I know (and no, they aren't stupid) dont know JACK about OS design. We buy a crappy RTOS from ISI/Greenhills/Windriver, pay them a TON of money for software we get 0 source code to, PLUS fork over per unit royalty fees, and get on our knees and thank the Lord that somebody sees fit to write an OS for our particular target.
Then, we call up Diab, and they charge us another ton of cash for their compiler, again, who's source we have no access to, and who's portability is restricted to the platforms Diab decides is the most profitable for them.
I don't see (embedded) Motorola helping egcs. I don't see Motorola helping linux developers. They are in the hardware business. Hopefully, Caldera will bridge the gap...
But I'll believe it when i see it.
Yes, this is a hole that needs to be filled, but so far there is no incentive for anybody to start the dump trucks.
I like that Moreton VPN router family -- I can think of various useful roles that could play in my systems as it stands, even without customizing its Linux. It has a lot of potential.
Did anyone find pricing info on the site?
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
catarrh
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
"Lineo has already developed and sold Embedix based solutions to a select group of OEMs"
:)
Is it available for download anywhere yet?
Think about it: Linux + Neo = Lineo. They are just trying to cram as much geek culture into the name as possible.
Just click here. Motorola Computing Group (MCG) has an entire Linux discussion base. Just register (it's free) and hop right on in.
-RISCy Business | Rabid System Administrator and BOFH
your company here.
shelby != ford
MCG doesn't make toasters or cell phones.
Ed Carter (who has an account but is at work)
Both them and Caldera, damnit!
Caldera release all their work as Open Source. Two examples? COAS, their administration system, is GPL. The Lizard is Open Source, everybody can use it for their own Linux distribution.
;-)
Also Caldera supports KDE development just like Red Hat does.
Caldera may have had a stupid start some years ago. They changed a lot, I'd say. Personally, I trust them more than Red Hat. Caldera is less political and more technical oriented. And they produce the better distribution.
Comparing them with the Open Group is quite unjustified
My bad, I meant GSS/CSG (Cellular Subscriber Group) instead of MCG.
73's J.
I say the more the merrier ! Even if MOT isn't really interested in Linux and they just want to hedge their bets, this is good. Everytime a large company jumps on the bandwagon it gives Linux a little more legitimacy.
There are still a lot of suits who chuckle when the hear the word Linux, I know because I work with some of them. When a large co. comes out of the closet and proclaims their love for the penguin it continues to chip away at these guys. Gee, who knows..maybe we could see Linux running on a PCS phone sometime...hmmmm Linux on a StarTac...:)
Even if MCG is running on IIS, at least Motorola is running Apache on Solaris.