Slashdot Mirror
Red Hat IPO Story at Yahoo
malacai sent us another article in a long stream about
Red Hat's Impending IPO. This one talks a bit about Be's IPO,
as well as assorted other stuff related to it. It's a good piece (and one
that for a change is about the actual IPO and its implications and
not the E*Trade/SEC fiasco)
I love these IPO stories! Please post more of them with lots of cutting commentary! Does Red Hat have an IPO, by any chance? Thanks, Nerd :-)) PS Serious question, what's an IPO?
Amazon has over $1 billion in revenues. That's 100 times better than Red Hat. In the grand scheme of things, Red Hat is really small and irrelevant.
Also, they will in competition with companies with a very good name recognition like Dell.
I'm writing this comment on a Dell Precision 410 workstation that came factory installed with RedHat 6.0. The above sentence is like saying that Dell competes with Microsoft (wrong again, for those keeping score at home).
I think you must have meant to say:
"Also, they have formed valuable corporate partnerships with companies with very good name recognition like Dell, Intel and IBM, just to name a few."
Off this poster's comment, and on the article itself, I don't see the comparison with Be's IPO being particularly relevant. Yes, Be has good ink here on Slashdot and among the alternative-OS-enthusiasts, but it's mainstream mindshare is zero. Linux, on the other hand (and most people don't know there's Linux that isn't RedHat Linux), has buzz everywhere. This community gets way more press and word-of-mouth than a lot of people here think. The whole world is watching :-)
----------------------
"This moon-cheese will make me very rich! Very rich indeed!
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Who is "they"? I'd like to see a citation, if you have one. I've looked, and I haven't managed to find out anything definite about Be's prospects. There are plenty of generalized statements that they stink, yes, but I've seen precious few figures.
If my memory serves, they were burning about $ 25 million a year in cash. The Be IPO gave them $ 30 million. So they have about a year to prove themselves.
Their current strategy is to get themselves into set-top box applications. I don't think it's going to bear fruit this Christmas, but it might next. If they have something promising by about this time next year, I think they could sell additional stock and keep going.
I'm certainly rooting for them (and using their product right now).
D
----
Caldera and TurboLinux forked from Red Hat some time ago, although they maintain it themselves nowadays. They ARE based on older code of Red Hat however. Mandrake just straight up leeches off of Red Hat's work. Perhaps they should give Red Hat some royalties to compensate for the free development they make money off of. While not required by the GPL or anything, it would certainly be a good gesture....
> But you'll hate it because it supports very > minimal JavaScript and no Java. Nowadays a lot > of web sites rely on those languages, so there's > a surprising amount of content you simply won't > be able to get to. Umm...do I want to look at that kind of content?
> But you'll hate it because it supports very
> minimal JavaScript and no Java. Nowadays a lot
> of web sites rely on those languages, so there's
> a surprising amount of content you simply won't
> be able to get to.
Umm...do I want to look at that kind of content?
I meant the part of the article that talks about the fact that BeOS's stock barely moved in price after the IPO, in contrast to a lot of ".com" stocks that seem to float upward of their own volition. This is Be's "experience" with the stock market, so far.
How long after you made them aware of the glitch in your account did they fix it?
--
It took Etrade about 20 minutes to fix the problem while I was holding on the telephone through the other end. In tech support I spoke with 'Scott', a courteous person who was also impeccably polite with and helpful attitude. Etrade is lucky to have him, he reflected well on the company.
Sure, profit runs this country, and if Redhat customers can make a bigger profit by paying basically $0 for their operating systems and getting support from redhat, redhat can be a success. That's what will drive this IPO.
In what way are they competing with Dell?
I thought Dell was installing Red Hat on some of their machines!
Obviously they're competing with Microsoft, and that's enough to worry any company. But Dell? Gasp.
D
----
I own a few shares of Be. I bought just as the stock leveled off at $6.
As I see it Be's short term fate is, at least in part, intertwined with Apple's. (Unless I am mistaken BeOS runs on Mac Hardware) And Apple's prospects haven't looked better in quite a long time....
Now. What where Yahoo's losses / share when it went public?
I'll take cap ap any days.
It's amazing how little research the stock-buying public tends to do. Look how many people bought shares in China.com, just because it has two buzzwords that Wall Street likes: China, and "dot com". The amount of people buying the stock was huge, even though the company information (SEC filing, i think?) wasn't very easily available. I wonder how many people bought shares in MP3.com thinking that they *owned* the MP3 format? And will those same people buy Red Hat shares thinking Red Hat owns Linux? Hey, MP3 and Linux are some pretty hot buzzwords nowadays.
..................................@ @
i dont display scores, and my threshhold is -1. post accordingly.
Discuss
--
My guess is that it was moderated using the classic "Randomly select a word" style of moderation, which I hear is used by an increasing number of moderators here on this most excellent Slashdot.
-- $SIGNATURE
excellent idea.
the comments usually DO contain more intellegent writing than the online news links. some sort of section containing high-moderated comments/topics would be nice. i cannot think of how to do it. but there are many a thread that dies simply because it is no longer on Slashdot's front page. i ASSUME that it is dead at least and never return. there are a lot of great conversations that i would go back and read if i knew people were posting.
just a thought.
-fixe
thanks for the knowledge slashdot.
Spurt that IPO all over her fat account balance. You crazy investor.
Don't agree. The $12/share figure applies only when buying a small quantity of shares. If you want to buy all of RedHat you will most likely pay a different price for the whole company. That could be substantially more, or (mostl likey) substantially less. I would personally not pay more than 60 million for the WHOLE company, if I was able to build a similar company, with the same brand, for less money.
Caldera is absolutly not based on Redhat. Mandrake is. Not sure about TurboLinux.
If Dell is selling 1 Linux machine for every 600 Windows machines, it will not seem likely that Linux is competing agaist Microsoft.
If my memory serves, they were burning about $ 25 million a year in cash
Financials
Looks like somewhere around $17M. So they've got two years.
Can someone please confirm when RedHat is going public? I was under the impression that it was today (Monday August 9th), however this article mentions that it is in fact Wednesday the 11th? I checked RedHat's website, but couldn't find any information besides the old June press release. Can someone please help so I don't miss this one?
Thanks
Like Business Week, Newsweek (oh, you mean you missed the article), TIME (ditto), and so on.
It's not my fault that you just read the JFK Jr. pages and toss the mags.
;-)
Will in Seattle
Everyone I have talked with had good things to say about both the tech support people and the direct line IPO (you know, the 1-888 number in "the letter") people. They were pretty helpful and polite. Kudos to them.
Now the people who answer the main E*Trade 1-800 number could use a little coaching from them, on the other hand.
Will in Seattle
What site did you read that Red Hat may reach the 100's? I can only hope to be so lucky.
(Shares Outstanding) * (Share Price) = Market Cap
Which on 11 August is now:
66.8 Million Shares * $52.0625/Share = $3.48 Billion!
Nothing of note there; but then again it's from ZDNet. It is unfortunate for poor ol' Be, though.
An IPO article without news about the fiasco? That definately lacks spice.
Disclaimer: I'm not the person who moderated it down. I currently have no moderation points, anyway.
To me, his post *does* look like a standard first post. Not redundant, but offtopic; for starters, it was on Yahoo news, not ZDNet, and didn't really say anything, but was just the usual "Oh, the media is crappy" and obviously didn't read the article. Well, not obviously, but most likely didn't. If I had moderated it, though, I'd have done 'off-topic.'
That's just me, though.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
If Redhat can fix my computer, more power to 'em.
I am critical.
..." one could assume linux is redhat's, much as they stated later in the article "Microsoft's Windows is an operating system that ..." [generic quotes]
From the manner of its presentation i.e. "Redhat's Linux is an operating system that
Contrary to several misleading half-truths in the article, it is not redhat's linux. It is redhat's distro of linux. Yet, Redhat is also the only linux mentioned. Not good.
Redhat PR office should complain that future media articles about redhat should at least offer passing mention of a few of the other distro efforts upon which it has built much of its own.
I am sad, as I believe this will happen more and more. Due to megalithic media exposure, Linux will slowly become Redhat's (i.e. redhat will slowly subsume linux) possibly to the point that if another distro tries to go public, I will venture that they will be considered to have "borrowed" much of their code from redhat. I hope it does not demoralize the other distros.
In the hallways of Redhat's future New York office, will they have portraits of Bob Young, or of Linus and Stallman, the Debian team, and more?
someone moderate this back up. I don't think it needs to be moderated down...
Are we just killing *all* first posts now?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
BTW, you are aware that other distros are/were based on Red Hat (TurboLinux, Caldera and Mandrake come to mind)
I put in for some shares and am wondering what it might go up to, barring the fact the stock market was slumping last week, i don't think 30's is that crazy. I even read at one sight they said like 60 to 100 which I don't think will happen but you never know.
well, I wouldn't have moderated it off-topic. yes, they were wrong, since it was on yahoo, but the article didn't say much to me, and i read the whole thing. it was just another boring, sterile, commentary on the situation and the most interesting thing about it was the reference to poor ol' BeOs...
Insert mind here.
I personally Think it will go up to around 40 at the start, and settle down around the high twenties, low thirties.
...I mean wEIrd and ZDnet and all those other ones that make out the bulk of articles on /. /.ers are preaching to the choir. We rant and rave and get all hyped, but rarely, rarely, rarely does my father's copy of Newsweek mention Linux. Haven't seen BE in it. Maybe because Microsoft and Apple and HP pour buttloads into fullpage and multipage glossie ads in the mags. I was ticked when a week or so ago there was steve jobs in the middle of Newsweek plugging his ibook, and somehow it was news instead of marketing. (imagine a 3 page story, in Newsweek, Time, or USNews on say, one of Compaq's notebooks, or even better, something from VA. We'd say, gee, a computer. woopee doo. Apple, specifically Steve Jobs, has always been a media favorite IMHO.)
/., where I could post "is BE really as good as Be INc. says it is?" or "I had to give up linux because Netscape 4.0x really sucks, is it worth my time to dl 4.6?" without feeling like i was off topic or not important enough to waste a whole story. I also think certain threads could just be ongoing if there was a bit more structure to moderation. (for example: Perhaps old but really good comments could be archived in the "which distro is best" ongoing thread and so there is some continuity and permanence to what people put so much though into saying. Or maybe just an archive of all the highest scored posts??)
/. is important and cool and great. We have a good thing going here. (thanks cmdrtaco/hemos/andover et al!!)
I spend a couple hours a day reading stuff here, but sometimes it seems like
It all comes back to mindshare (not any company by that name but the socio-psychological idea). HP sells "The Unstoppable NT" and we groan. We all know that the world just isn't right and that we have the solutions (whatever they may be). So we shout at eachother across the internet, sometimes flaming, sometimes being polite and careful. But we are a fringe. Broad and varied and multinational but still a fringe.
I like it. I come back here every day. I can almost always find something interesting to read. I enjoy and learn from many of the comments. I'd like it if there were some other things to do here (maybe a more newbie-friendly ask
Anyway. I think I'm hella off topic and wasting bandwidth but maybe i won't be moderated down.
"I want peace on earth and good will toward men." "We're the U.S. government. We don't do that sort of thing!!"
I think that Be's experience shows that at least part of Wall Street is beginning to wake up to the fact that not everything with a ".com" after it will make oodles of money. Unfortunately, some worthwhile companies, with more to sell than a flash-in-the-pan idea and a web page, will also fall victim to this. Be and Red Hat could be among those.
Don't be fooled by the stock market into thinking that Linux and its associated companies are going nowhere. Even if the various Linux OSs do collectively fall on their face, the Open Source idea and movement are more than resiliant enough to just keep on trying and improving. The stock market doesn't make companies (though it can break them), and similarly the success or failure of a few Linuz companies won't doom everyone to the likes of M$.
Besides their grammar error ("could move up substantial" -- should be "could move up substantially") I noticed one more error in this story. It was reported that Be closed up 1/16 to 6 1/16 on its opening day; however, Be closed up some 30% to over $8 per share on its first day. Alas, he correctly notes that Be is now back around $6, and it hasn't moved much. Volume has also dropped to only a couple hundred thousand shares a day. Oh well.
For more information, click here.
I've been worried about the same thing since Red Hat's IPO became common knowledge to the media. After all, it is NOT in Red Hat's best interests, financially, to mention other distros near the time of their IPO (or to correct media blurbs to do so). As Bob Young is so proud of saying (I paraphrase) "All Red Hat really owns is a brand." It just doesn't make good business sense to mention other brands when you're trying to make money off of your own, so I don't really expect this situation to change.
However, I don't believe Linux has to become synonymous with Red Hat, because:
1) Linux distributions for other platforms make it hard for the mediia to accuse other brands of borrowing "Red Hat's" code. LinuxPPC, YellowDog, etc. are becoming more of a presence now, and the media is too thick to understand that a Mac operating system could use the same code as an Intel OS.
2) Caldera, at the very least, has a good business presence--they've targeted the office, so their name still makes rounds in the business world. If they IPO, they will likely carry a buzz as a "competitor to Red Hat."
3) All of us know better, and if history is any indication, we'll scream bloody murder if "Red Hat's Linux" is bantered around too casually. =)
My 2/100ths of a dollar.
Let's try not to let fact interfere with our speculation here, OK?
Honestly unless the ipo is /.ed this baby will struggle to get in the thirties. Profit is what runs this country and redhat is no match for microsoft and investors know this is redhat's main competition. I hope all of you take care of your finances, you may win the short battle and redhat will have a high ipo but it may fall flat on it's face and you will lose the war. If you want a real stock to pick ipo wise , UPS is going public , I would definitely invest in it. This is just my opinion, all I hope is everyone be wise with your finances. Cruel and capitalism are soulmates. take care, sd.
In general, it's a hyped-up IPO so most hunches seem to be that it'll go up a lot just after it opens and then it's anyone's guess from there. But if you throw money into a volatile investment like an IPO, be prepared that it might not do well, just in case. Don't do IPOs if you can't consider and plan for that possibility.
Of course, we all wish them the best. After all, it's the first Linux-based IPO.
That's how low it can go.
I'm no venture capitalist, but as I understand it, when Goldman Sachs eyeballed in the $8 to $10 price, they do it by exactly that method. They totally guess at it. Their job is to guess as high as possible, (generating as much commission as possible) without queering the offering with greed.
/. pre-sales activity could be counterproductive, as temporarily pressurized early orders can push price up during the first hour or so, and then poof. On the otherhand, maybe there will be sustained pressure from the heavy hitters ... who knows.
... it's not linux, it's gambling with a mob.
That said, this will be interesting to watch, if in fact a linux crowd does head like a mob into brokerages and tries to "get on the train." Like they say down at the railroad tracks, Hobos shouldn't try to jump on fast moving trains. Be careful. This
I agree with the comments to this one, that is if you plan to buy, buy to hold. I have a feeling that the day and week quick buck dreamers, and other "weak hands" will not make it through this one with their shirts on.
IPO
Follow your own advice. PS> I'm actually serious about that. Computers blow hard. But especially ones running Linux... you know.. the ones owned by linux-hippies.
The whole world is watching, but what they're seeing is "Not-Microsoft." That's a far cry from "Linux."
I hope all of you Linux supporters consider long and hard what you're doing before putting money into Red Hat. Remember that at the current price range Red Hat's market value would be $800 million. That's for a company with loss of 1c per share and just $10.8 million in revenues. Also, they will in competition with companies with a very good name recognition like Dell. Just a word of warning for the "I never held a stock in my life and I only opened a brokerage account because I want this IPO" crowd.
I think Netscape has become a little more stable with 4.5, but I feel the pain of hapless Netscape users (including myself). In all honesty I don't think Internet Explorer is much better - I've seen both of them crash and burn badly. The main problem is the god-awful fonts. :-(
:-(. However, I think this is changing in the newer versions of GoBe Productive, the native Be office suite.
BeOS: Is it what Be says it is? Yes. It really is fast, it really is stable, it really is slick. And application support is getting pretty nice - if you're willing to pay from $ 20-200 for applications, you can get some very nice ones. This is cheaper than Windows, but admittedly more expensive than Linux.
The Be web browser is a good demonstration of both the strengths and weaknesses of the OS. It renders pages attratively, new windows pop up in under a second, the user interface is smooth and crisp, if one window is hanging waiting for a sluggish web site, you can pop up a new window and immediately go to another one. This is all fantastic; you'll love it.
But you'll hate it because it supports very minimal JavaScript and no Java. Nowadays a lot of web sites rely on those languages, so there's a surprising amount of content you simply won't be able to get to.
That's not a bad metaphor for the entire OS - what it does, it does better than anything else out there, but there are some exasperating gaps. The biggest gaps are in driver support - a lot of devices you take for granted in the Windows or even Linux world don't exist in Be. The other major gap is that I don't know of any utility for viewing or editing Microsoft Word or Excel files. Hate them as you may, there are times when they really need to be decoded
If $70 isn't enormous money to you, I think it's well worth handing to Jean-Louise. It's not totally there yet, but it's getting close, and it has the most appealing personality of any other PC OS.
Hope that helps.
D
----
Uuugh. Who *doesn't* want a part of the set-top-box market? Come to think of it, who *does* want a set-top-box itself? I know I couldn't care less about them.
I think Be is a long shot to go anywhere. I sincerely hope it does (but at the expense of 'Doze, not Linux). But this stock will ONLY do good if they start to get some mainstream marketshare.
*That's* how low it could go.
Look at the Wall Street Journal. When I subscribed, I was surprised to see linux at least once a month or so.
NOTE: M$ is my lame substitute for Microsoft.
Mudhiker has two major points, that I agree with.
One topic that I have been doing extensive research on is PPP. (still can't get RedHat to connect to my ISP!!!) I know that I should go "Read the documentation" (been there done that), but doesn't everyone prefer to chat with someone to get there problems solved (I know, go through IRC)?
I DO trust "Hackers" because I am one.
I DO want to use linux, but I don't have a clue how to re-compile my kernal with PPP support (last time I tried, the kernal wasn't worth SH!T).
I DO use Apache to test out my web page projects.
Linux rulz, but there are a few things that need to happen before this statment can take full effect.
PS:I love linux.
I've run BeOS on my PII. As previous posts mention, Apple is not giving them specs on the G3, which is sad and not very nice. Unless I'm wrong, the LinuxPPC people didn't get G3 specs - they just reverse engineered much of it. I guess the small staff of Be doesn't have the resources for that.
How bad could it get? It is at 6 or so right now. I wonder how low it could go?
Ken
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!
Do not expect to see any major development on the Red Hat/E*Trade fiasco until some time after the IPO happens.
Hypothetically speaking ( wink, wink, nudge, nudge ) people are going to wait until the IPO. This way, they can put a dollar amount on lost income due to E*Trade's questionable activities.
This story is NOT going away.
--
There's a story about how the RTP is all abuzz about the IPO and the profit potential at http://www.news-observer.com/
_ index.html#top
(click on technology link in lower right hand page corner
and a story about the new RH marketroid at http://www.news-observer.com/daily/1999/08/07/biz
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.