Slashdot Mirror
Alias|Wavefront to Support Linux
Steve Rojem writes "This press release at Yahoo details the porting of Maya et al to Linux." Very cool, and probably one of the first of many similar announcements we'll be seeing this week with LinuxWorld going on (though as an astute reader pointed out, this one was due to SIGGRAPH, which is also going on presently). Maya should show up in December, and it won't come cheap (US$3k).
I love /., but I'm so sick of reading about Linux, ... but ... two under "Games" and one
I could puke! Therefore, I have selected to
exclude Linux articles from the index page
it doesn't work, because people keep posting Linux
related articles under different topics. For
example, just today there were three Linux
articles showing up
under "SGI."
It's pretty simple: If the article is about Linux,
it goes under the Linux topic. If the article is
about a program or game being written or ported
to Linux, it *STILL* goes under the Linux topic!
Why? Because unless you use or like Linux, you
don't care that Game "X" being ported to Linux. Or
that SGI's Maya software is being written for
Linux.
If the people posting articles don't want to take
the time to correctly categorize the articles,
at least consider providing us more powerful ways
to filter... e.g. regex's on the body of the
article. Then I can allow all topics, and just do:
!/linux|microsoft/i;
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Microsoft and Intel may not have voting shares, but they carry considerable influence within Avid.... witness the attempted retreat by Avid to NT-only post NAB 99.
:(
:)
Reflexive Mac-bashers hold your tongue please. The majority of non-linear video editing (read: Avid's customer base) is "still" Mac based.
After the customer base revolted Avid has been falling head over heels - following a 30% stock drop! - to make up and reverse that decision somewhat.
In my humble opinion SI is a piece of shit. I use the software quite often, and on NT even...
Microsoft ditched SI because their customer base was switching to Maya anyhow. You see, as part of Microsoft's "war against open 3D stardards", they had to buy smart people to help develop their closed 3D API "DirectX". To do this they diverted considerable resources from the SGI flavor, and poured resources into the fledgeling NT port.
Once all the SI customer base was screaming "I knew it [ms would hose them]" they had to get rid of the product or watch it wither. SI on NT was a tremendous HACK even as far as NT standards go. Microsoft never bought SI to make a direct profit off of... they just wanted to embrace and extend OpenGL and capture one of the leading IRIX applications (giving the customer base the shaft if they stayed on SGI).
SGI was very smart when they brought down the price of Maya to within reach of SI, MAX, etc.. and one more thing you'll NEVER see MAX on Linux. It's way too tied to NT code-wise and uses a lot of licensed code too (maybe you'll see the MAX distributed render client...). Given SGI's healthy attitude towards Linux I think it's a matter of months before it's announced for Linux. This makes me very happy
The Maya renderer sucks all ass. Strangely, it's a lot worse than the older Alias renderer.
The Animation and Modelling package is amazingly powerful, though.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
It's just the renderer. The first clue I got was "Maya should show up in December, and it won't come cheap (US$3k)." :)
The Maya complete package for $3k? I wish.
The true cost of the environment is much higher.
On the other hand, I used an early version of Wave front circa 1990, and it was way cool even then. Making an object run along a spline was pretty easy, having an large number of them doing this was also easy.
I can only imagine it's much better now.
You have seen the product of this package, unless you haven't seen TV in 20 Years.
I have always hoped the Linux world would come out with something as easy to use for free or cheap.
All the technology in the world won't hide your lack of vision, talent, or understanding.
yeah, but the new one sucks. there was an article in /. awhile back, and almost everybody agreed the new SGI logo sucks, and that the old one is/was awesome. So Rob took that as feedback.
Well, it takes porting the enite application, to start swaying ISVs, IHVs, and users to support Linux.... As it stands by just porting the renderers, it only sways those who want to set up an inexpensive render farm... thats not bad, its a good thing, but it would just be better to have the entire package on Linux.... for me it just means I won't be using Linux for 3D for a while....
well, I don't know about that. '
3k is cheap compared to packages that are 30k.
Alias Wavefront Maya is a amazing product, unmatched in its price range. Most people ran this on IRIX, either Octane or O2 but hated paying 3 times as much for other apps such as Word Perfect and Photoshop.
That market swarms to Windows NT which will be good for Linux because of the more important move from MIPS to Intel. Now with Maya on Linux, focus on the other free software such as GIMP and watch the Modellers flock.
This port is GREAT news, this is one example where software will never be free, but atleast the operating system will be.
You buffoon... He's not implying that the tools can't be good because they're open-source. He's saying that the open source tools aren't up to the level of the commercial apps. It's true. Quit waving your open source flag and admit that the software just isn't there yet.
I wish you the best luck, if you start today you may have a Maya/Alias|Wavefront OSS clone ready in 10 years from now. :-)
They want to make money enough to clean their asses with it and drive brand new Ferraris to work.
A) Because they make me to.
B) Because Photoshop on SGI stops at version 3.0
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
You have to use them to understand the difference. High-end packages such as Maya or Softimage are *lightyears* away from the $100 crowd.
Really.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Do you not have enough self-control to ignore articles you do not wish to see. Guess what, if I don't feel like reading an article on this site I don't. It's pretty easy to not click on that "Read More..." link. BTW, what did slashdot ever do against you?
Why is it stupid? I work with both Macs and Unix boxen, and after one or two hours on the Mac I just can't wait to get to a command line so I can actually be a bit productive.
Sorry, but one-button mice and no multitasking has to *go*.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
WTF are you talking about? I am offering a
suggestion to improve the site. Unlike you...
Why bother offering any options at all to get
rid of articles that appear on slashdot? Obviously
either Rob is bored, or slashdot readers are
requesting this.
Obviously I don't have to read the entire article,
but most of the time the entire article appears on
the front page anyway. 3 out of the 7 or so
articles on the main page were about Linux and
thus un-interesting. I'd rather have only the
articles that appeal to me show up on that page...
which is why the "exclude" feature was created in
the first place.
So unless you have something meaninful to add...
go away.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Did Microsoft buy Avid Technology, Inc. stocks ?
Houdini: an interface only a technical director could love. It's cool, but not much fun trying to get artistic types to use it. 'course they claim that's all gonna change. But as a professional Coward in the business, I can guess that the Maya renderer on x86 Linux will be a boon only to a small audience. Most big houses use Renderman or internal programs to actually render, even if they animate in Maya. The Maya render has problems with its overall look. They aren't insurmountable, but it's harder to get really high class stuff out of it. Many smaller houses use the Maya renderer because they already shelled out 7gs for the thing, but they run mostly on NT, so they'll have to weigh the change over carefully. Most of those places have pretty small render farms anyway. Now if it was ported to Alpha Linux, that would rock. EV6 rules. But then again that would be an even smaller audience. If/when the GUI side goes over to Intel Linux, I'll rethink my position. And if/when I see a good 16bit/floating point, paint capabable version of the GIMP, then I'll get really excited. -- stuck at work while everyone else is at SIGGRAPH
you are wrong... all of todays articles were in their proper subject range...
we had some game announcements that had some linux info and we had some new sgi software announcements... its was labeled sgi properly... some of us are interested in sgi announcements...
you are incorrect...
now reboot again...
Just to bad the renderer is the only weak part of Maya. Renderman is way better
Whoever said Maya render "sucks ass", is missinformed... We have used Alias PowerAnimator since version 5 and then moved on to Maya... The renderer is pretty good, you just have to realize that alot of the defaults are setup for lowest quality*speed)... but it is very very nice... raytracing, raycasting, MEL(which right there blows the 3 year delayed softimage prod away..), IPR, harware rendering, particles(no other sofwares' particle systems come even close), full tessalation control on any object, built in post effects, includes developer API, etc...
its is not open source, but ALL or nearly ALL of the software is in MEL... you can just open up and text files and read them... much can be done with this software... (the gui, object/surf manips, all of it)
I use it on old indy/indigo sgi's and the new NT 540... it is stupid fast on the 540...
MentalRay is less and less talked about nowadays... lost of ground has been lost due to delays in their "next generation" product...
And it doesnt really matter... if you really are going to do any "real" rendering, you are using Renderman... and if that is the case, you export RIBS in maya...
"The Maya renderer is the weak spot..."
Are you nuts? Have you *seen* any of it's output? Renderman is great too, but sheesh.
"Open source it!"
Get real. It's a real product for real projects for making real money. If you can't afford it, it's out of your league. Now go download Doom and pipe down. (here's a hint. Build the cost into your next professional 3D job)
"It's bloated UNIX/Windoze ware!"
Try again. It's just about the best 3D application on the planet. SoftImage isn't too bad and Lightwave is pretty cool too. But I suspect that some people lack experience with these except for the broken warez copies they run at home on their Celerons.
Signed, grumpy.
They announced because of SIGGRAPH, not LWE. Too bad it's just their renderer and not the full application... Now THAT would be news!
Now if only they give us some of the nice kernel multithreading that Irix has, and that 4dwm-zooming-filemanager...
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
why does graphics software made by large companies always cost an arm and a leg? 3ds Max, Maya, Softimage, etc, all cost more than most hardware when equally excellent graphics packages such as blender are freely available with advanced features available at rates under $100 US.
"There is nothing more intimidating than an idiotic smile worn by a manifest non-idiot." --unknown
Alias|Wavefront provides artists with open workflow solutions for creative advantage
Snigger. What the hell does that mean?
Sneers aside, this looks like a Good Thing, particularly with SMP. I've read a few pieces that say Linux is ideal for multimedia, but I've seen little evidence in the software.
And $3,000 for a renderererer? Truly Linux has come of age.
Lets make an open source clone of maya so we can drive them out of the linux market! Proprietary software is bad especially 3k software
They sold it to Avid (at least part of it, anyway)... Mental Ray is a better renderer than Maya's (so my artist friends tell me)
Its nice to see that they are porting rendering software. But it will be really nice if they ever manage to get useful modelling et al. tools ... renderers are a nice step ... its a pity theres no real software to run on those Visual Workstataions under windows and what-not. Too bad microsoft owns Softimage ... Thats something I'd really like to see Please don't reply saying anything including "BMRT, Povray, Blender, Midnight Modeller" or any of that open-source nonsense. These tools have nothing compared to Maya's modeller, SoftImage or even 3DSMAX
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
I am glad that this was finaly announced. I couldn't wait for them to go public with the information because I wanted to brag to all my friends about my new linux render farm.
My work has had a tight relationship with A|W and
we kept pushing for the Maya port. Now it has happened. The way I see it, porting the renderer is a big deal. Having the modeler to use under linux would be nice, but it is not needed. With current hardware support for 3D still comming arround, a high powered modeler for linux might still be a bit slow.
Having the renderer for linux allows people to put togeather cheap render farms. Knowing that maya renders about as fast, or faster on dual proc NT machines as it does on O2 or Octane boxes, a cheap, fast linux solution is awesome. We are looking at beefing up our render farm, also migrating some from the SGI platform to the Intel, but we were waiting for the port to be official.
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
The renderer is already just a commandline application, so this port wasn't really a big commitment to linux on their part (I bet it was an engineer bored one afternoon)
You'll still need an NT or SGI box to actually model anything, so don't plan on converting your shop over anytime soon. The only people this really matters for are people who have big render farms - and at the price per copy of Maya, there aren't a whole lot of people who do.
I was gettin pretty excited when I read the headline. I thought "Alias|Wavefront moving to linux? I may not be able to afford it, but this sounds great!" Then I checked out the web site, and, alas, it's only the network render client.
Maybe I shouldent be griping, if my favorite modeler/renderer/animation package, Hash's Animation:Master released a render client/server for linux, I'd be one happy puppy, cause the less time I spend in MacOS and the more I spend in linux, the better.
-Ben
-Ben
bensmith@biz1.net
We're a product deign firm who would love a couple more seats of Studio. Linux is the obvious choice in OS (nt - ha!), particullarly with SGI supporting it. But if we still need SGI MIPS hardware and IRIX, I don't see us adding any more.
Now if Parametric Technologies would port ProEngineer to Linux.....
It is just the render engines. Pixar has a port of Renderman for Linux too (and they are working on the Alpha Linux port as we speak). And, of course, the Blue Moon Render Tools have existed on Linux for years. BMRT implements a subset of Renderman - I've messed around with exporting the geometries out of Alias on Irix and rendering on BMRT on Linux but didn't have enough management support to get beyond the initial test.
Alias released the renderer for NT about 3-4 months before the full Maya toolset. It was worth the wait. Of course, I'm more interested in seeing the good bits of Irix move to Linux. The release of SGI Linux 1.0 was more significant to me. If SGI put 1/10th the effort into Linux that they did Irix, NT would die quickly.
Not EVERYONE is up on EVERYHITNG that Slashdot represents. What is Maya and why is it newsworthy? I wish I'd see more descriptive Headlines on Slashdot.
Of course, as an AC relying on his brain to do the filtering, I'd like to see fewer Linux articles in general. The Linux hype literally makes me sick.
People are working on enhancing the Gimp for film work - including 16 bit per component support. This work is coming directly out of the LA effects community. I think information is at ;
http://film.gimp.org
but I can't connect at the moment ...
"Thats something I'd really like to see Please don't reply saying anything including "BMRT, Povray, Blender, Midnight Modeller" or any of that open-source nonsense. These tools have nothing compared to Maya's modeller, SoftImage or even 3DSMAX " Maybe, but a talented artist could create an image using open-source software and proprietary that would be indistinguishable from each other. In other words its the artist, not the tools that's important.
I don't mean to flame you, your points about the unlikelihood of Maya being open sourced are valid but:
Just because an artist uses a broken warez copy of a piece of software on a Celeron means that he/she can't create cool artwork.
Hell, if i got paid to do this stuff, then i would have no problem buying a loaded SGI box running IRIX + Maya etc.
but check it:
http://www.spunk.co.nz/tux.gif
http://www.spunk.co.nz/ork.jpg
http://www.faultline.gen.nz/dwarf001.jpg
but as it is, i'm stuck with a warez copy of LW and an overclocked Celeron. The warez copy of Lightwave works perfectly, and my Celeron performs identically to a P2 of the same clock speed.
Of course, there are a lot of people who warez the software, and never actually *use* it.
But creating good artwork with this type of software comes from hard work and talent. Nothing else. Warez never is, was or will be a substitute for the above, and just because i 'borrowed' my tools, doesn't mean i don't know how to use them.
How do you think anybody actually learns to do this stuff?
Magically loaded workstations just fall out of the sky into the laps of 'those that are worthy'?
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
If it's 'just' the renderer, does that mean it's
ONLY good for renderfarms? Or is this the whole
Maya 2 Complete package, meaning you don't need anything else? I'm suspicious because of the price - Maya 2 normally goes for around $7500, doesn't it, with other versions going up around $16k...
The more and more I read this group the more and more I think either the writers are teenagers or totally inexperienced, 3,000 for Maya is cheap.. Maya is not just a bleeking renderer, its a NURBS modeller, programming language, with high-end shader/ray-trace rendering program, and bunches of other stuff you won't find in any other 3D package.. However, has anyone taken a look at Blender? 1.67 of Blender (100 dollars for complete license), now supports magnets (purportional modelling), NURBS and polygon relative-vertex keying (shapeshifter/metamorph style effects), NURBS assignable to IK bones, as well as radiosity, and now a Python scripting language.. I think Maya will be okay, but just to remind everyone, we're not in kansas anymore..
This software is very powerful and must've taken a group of mathematicians/programmers many years to perfect. Good luck getting something this good without spending similar timeframe on it. Besides, it's also quite specialized and anyone producing with it is likely to make big bucks off their product, so might as well charge big bucks for it.
as ussual, alias is behind side effects. side effects was the first high end 3D product (used for stuff like: titanic, apollo 13, vocano, independence day, etc.) to be ported to linux. and they announced their houdini to linux port back in march. they're showing a linux version of houdini 4.0 at siggraph this week. houdini is about a year ahead of maya in power. it's procedural from the ground up in both geometry (sops), channels (chops), and lots of low-level unix scripting support. check out: http://www.sidefx.com
If you don't like how things are done on Slashdot,then get lost. No one's asking you to stay.
This post of yours has to be one of the most idiotic things I've come across. *You* sir are in no postintion to dictate to *ANYBODY* how they should go about posting any sort of message. If you don't like seeing this message too fucking bad (for *YOU* that is)
Renderman is indeed better than Maya's - the way I typed that one sentence made it seem the other way around.
Mental Images Gmbh/Softimage has had MentalRay available for Linux for some time. V2.1 will also distribute tesselation of the frame.
It doesn't matter how good you are, that's never been the issue here.
The fact is, you've STOLEN the software.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not justifying the insane prices that get charged for this stuff, though.
True but as a simple search will show. People can create some astonishing things sometimes because of the tools, sometimes in spite of. Remember that ascii animation of star wars? Good tools will not make a bad artist great. But will help make a good artist better. As far as the applications mentioned by the original poster there are good examples of what good artists can do. To imply that one can't because it's open-source is disingenuous at best. BTW there are others not on his list which can produce impressive results.
While I agree Maya's engine is pretty good, I'll play devils advocate a bit just to say that I like radiance's rendering engine better.. ;) When we see the Maya modelling environment though, we will *really* have something to be happy about. Especially in that radiance can import from AW/Maya.. >:) So now we just need to implement photon mapping into radiance, have a Maya-like opensource modeller, and when I finish writing me ecosystem/landscape generator, oh boy oh boy! ;)
Ahhhh let me guess... a Linux zealot.
::shrug::
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
P.S. It's in the best interest of slashdot to
please as many people as possible... more eyeballs
== more ad revenue. This includes people that are
not interested in Linux (believe it or not).
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Great. Bloated hyped-up closed source binary-only highly-overpriced software that has infested the UNIX(r) and WinTel platforms comes to Linux. Well if I ain't over-figgin-joyed! Gee...maybe NuTek will follow suite next. Poke me with a friggin-fork already...I'm done!
wrong logo
RENDERING. Not porting Maya. Big difference. ;>
Take a look at Bingo the Clown - an animated short made just to showcase Maya's (Alias|Wavefront's modeller) new features. Quite a deranged little short, but well worth the bandwidth and time to watch it - especially for the lens reflections!
I wish I had the URL... if anyone knows it, post it! The last place I saw it, it was on Alias|Wavefront's site...
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.