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Descent 3 Linux Client
GehRehmee writes "This thread from the Descent Bulletin Board contains a comment from Jeff Slutter of Outrage Entertainment, enlightening the masses on an upcoming Glide/OpenGL Linux client for Descent 3. Not a lot of details, but good news for everyone getting tired of q3test. " Well, no sound, no joystick, minor bugs-but it sounds like it shgould be out soon.
I only keep windows on my machine for tribes. I want Tribes for linux. I'd actually *buy* my own copy (Tribes 1 doesn't need the CD). Give me Tribes 2 for linux. Btw, Descent is cool too.
Which is why PI/SGI/XFree86 are working on DRI.
if your having problems with that setup you are doing something seriously wrong. I'm playing with a k6-233 and 8 meg voodoo2, and i'm getting framerates that are very acceptible.
Welcome to hell. I'm your friendly local guide.
sorry 'bout the nasty previous post...I was running a bit hot earlier today. in any case, yeah, the game does tax systems a bit too much for the graphics it provides. They still rock IMO, but you can't beat the Q3 engine. (yet) I can't get it past 960 by whatever it is on my old dodgy monitor, but I seldom notice frame rate problems on my celeron 300a (oc'd to 375) with a banshee of all things. Only happens on huge outdoor levels. You don't need a t3 to play online though...D3 taxes any connection quite a lot, apparently, but lots of players play on modems, some (such as myself) with pings in excess of 400. One of the highest ranked players is on a 200 ping. I think yr missing out on some great fun, but maybe you did make the right decision.
Compare the number of top players using sticks, keys, or mouse on any of the Descent ladders and I think you'll find that the stick is preferred hands down.
Mouselook in D3, btw, doesn't count as a controller option -- mouselook has been universally condemned by the core Descent community since it eliminates the fundamental tactic of getting behind your opponent.
Moderation in everything, including moderation.
It's ok... I was asking for it... I was just frustrated about very high marks every site/magazine was giving to this game.
As I said, I downloaded this demo from loki.com and the text file that came with the game said it will use DGA but only if you run it as root.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I have the same problem. X11 is not the fastest graphics pipeline. DGA and GLX are good but DGA requires root access which is just plain wrong. I also have a problem with postage stamp sized windows for games. I have Quake1/QW/2/3test, Descent1X and some other games. Running in a window is crappy. I edited my XF86Config file to add low-res modes (320x200, etc) but even then you can't touch the mouse or you will pan the virtual desktop away from the game. There should be a simpler way to lock in full screen access for games, one that would change the desktop res to accomodate. I believe that the tools are out there to make this happen but they just need to be placed in the proper sequence. Things like GGI, fbcon, SDL and even Scitech Display Doctor (Remember that one?!) exist to provice Linux with good, simple, high-speed graphics rasterization. We just need to pull them together. GGI should probably be rolled into the Kernel as the high level interface to fbcon, SDL is good and will hopefully be the replacement for DirectDraw for X11. SDD has a unique position in that they marked an OpenGL implementation and entire game generation environment. They should make sure that everything is ported to Linux, but transferrable from Windows, and market heavily. Companies would have no problem with Linux support if their graphics toolkit just required a recompile to make it work.
Maybe some company will come out with the DirectOS (Alex St. John) method. Since Linux is free it should be possible to create a bootable CD with just enough software to bootstrap the game and graphics libraries. You aren't going to need a full command line environment, all the X libraries--just the ones the game uses. You could run the game off the CD or boot off the CD and be sure that the libraries have been tested to work optimally with the game. With the ability to create a directory of symlinks from a CD you could even update the game libraries easily.
Just my $0.02 US
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
I keep hearing that XF4.0 "will" have DRI which will make things "much faster". Question is *when* will XF4.0 be released and *how much* faster will things run? I don't think it is a good idea to have games run on top of X in any shape or form. X is still a huge overhead. When you run a game you don't want to waste any resources, esp. for something huge that just sits in the background. Would it not be much better to implement DRI (or some equivalent) in kernel, so that you don't need to run X?
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
You too? :)
:)
:)
My friend Rob and I got hooked on it our freshman year in college, right when the original DI playable demo came out. We'd stay up until all hours of the night to play that thing, and then struggle to get up in the morning to go to class.
We've often referred to it as the most expensive computer game we've ever played. That game, single-handedly, has fueled more hardware upgrades than anything I've used in my life. Between faster processors, more memory, better audio and video subsystems, new controllers, and larger hard disks (storing all those extra levels)... aahhh.
I don't know what's worse: the amount of money I've sunk into getting that game to be absolutely kick-ass, or the fact that I don't regret spending a penny of it!
This is another major title that could be available on LINUX, but thousands of petition signatures have to be collected. That means you will have to print the form and mail it to Westwood Studios. Did I come to the right place for LINUX fiends, or are you ladies too scared to lick an icky little stamp?
Tux expects that every man will do his duty. That is all.
Don't get me wrong, linux *needs* more mainstream games like this to be ported, but...
D3 SUCKS. 1024x768x32 is JERKY on a P2-504, 256M RAM and a TNT2 Ultra at 175/183. It constantly crashes if you try to save during heavy firefights. You cannot finish more than 5-6 missions even on normal difficulty because you need to reload every 10 seconds (no kidding!). And I have played games, including D1 and D2 for more than 10 years...
Great graphics, yes, and levels are cool, but it's all for nothing if programmers did a crappy job optimizing framerate - and they did. Great for showing off your PC but not more than that. It may be good for multiplayer, wouldn't know that, but for single-player it sucks. That's probably why Parallax split, as Volition's FreeSpace is simply FANTASTIC.
So when I got too close to a hearth attack, I've put CD back in the box and put it on consignment. Games should be *fun*, not frustration...
Running 800X600 on NT with most of the eye candy turned on. Don't know my framerates but the game simply looks amazing. Why don't you just try tweaking it down a bit? Do you really really really need that 32 bit? Is 800x600 really that horrible? All or nothing, eh? My only real complaint is the occasional crashes. Locks up the unlockable NT every hour or two. Worth it for a game of this caliber....
I don't know about you, but I heard the V3 is faster for D3. Plus I got 3DNOW accelerated glide. Runs fantastic. Can't wait for D3 linux client. Got Q3Test running fine.
Yes, indeed Glide is considerably faster that D3D or GL in Descent 3. Problem is not in frame rates (I didn't measure them anyway) but in the general jumpiness of the graphics. I do get about 24 fps in Q3 demo with all candy on and 32bit color, but the game still plays very smooth and I had no problem to frag.
More games to consider once I get X and my G200 cooperating. I liked Decent I (dos/shareware version), I just couldn't handle the baddy at the end (I think I ran out of ammo, can't remember, been almost two years).
Bill - aka taniwha
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Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
The last time I was really playing games Warcraft II and Descent were all the rage. These games are soooo much more fun than this Quake II/Unreal crap. Maybe Descent III means those of us with taste can finally game again on Linux.
I use my keyboard to control Descent, and generally whup joystick Descent players.
I must say that Descent3 (i have played all 3) IMO (read: IMO), Descent3 is a far more interesting game than any of the other FPS games, simply because dogfights are a lot more interesting in 3 unrestricted dimensions. Now all I need is support for my MS Sidewinder PPRO (yes, MS hardware 'cept for the natural KB is actually quite good).
Rock on Outrage!
Funny, I just bought D3 about two weeks ago. I was a major fan of the original descent - spent hundreds of hours playing it in single and multiplayer mode. So when I heard that D3 was out, I bought a Diamond V770 Ultra just for the game, and bought D3.
My impressions? Well, the textures are simply amazing compared to what could be done back in '94. It's nice running at 1024x768 with virtually no slowdown (except when there's a lot of aliens on screen). It's awesome that you can finally go outside the bases. Cool new weapons, especially the Black Shark. I love the realistic explosions.
But single player mode, although much richer than the original game, is still boring IMO. Only multiplayer mode is satisfying.
This is one of the few games that come close to temping me into installing a Windows partition... Thankfully now it looks like I won't have to. This game looks sweet under Windows, if it looks half as good in Linux I will be satisfied.
I actually hope they box a seperate Linux version so that we can show our support for it. Now I have some motivation to get my wingman extreme working under Linux.
I was hopeful when I saw the server rpms on the D3 cd that something more may come. Thanks guys, this will be way better than the Civ:CTP for Linux that I bought.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Descent has always been my favorite game, and
... wow!
Parallax (now Outrage/Volition) is a good company.
I was happy when I saw that D3 came with a dedicated server for Linux, but a client
I must now go and send many letters of thanks and
encouragement..
The wingman extreme is a very nice joystick but the top hat quality isn't the best. Both were broken during intence Descent I/II sessions.
i'm a hardcore descent adict, so i'm still in windows (dont kill me here.. take it to the mines :P ) but now with d1x (the open source version of descent 1 ) AND d3 ported to linux, i'll have a much easier time switching.
(btw.. d1 is the best, even tho outrage did a GREAT job on d3)
Welcome to hell. I'm your friendly local guide.
Okay about a year ago I got Windows completely off my computer. Only to find out that I was just another victim of CDPD (Conplusive Descent Playing Disorder). For weeks I had violent shakes, mood swings, and I developed a twitch. Fortunately, I have been able to surpress the rage of no Descent game play after I had such a bad shake that I drove my car into a light pole. Thankfully putting me in a coma for the rest of the withdrawal.
But now that this news has come about I fear it's all going to happen all over again.
I'll lose my job. Start failing classes. My wife will leave me. The dog will probably die from myself forgetting to feed it. The cops will start coming over again questioning why I'm screaming bloodly murder at the computer at 2am in the morning. Fools, they won't even know what I mean by dogfight. I'll need another trashcan for all the keyboards I'll be spinning through. I'll have to get new skin graphed on my fingers. And eyeball sprayers to keep me from blinking and missing one frame.
I've even thought of ways to covert my car to be able to strife and have quad level 6 lasers. Lord knows I pray for the ability to pass out smart mines to tailgators.
Curse you Descent! Curse this love/hate relationship! AAAAAAHHHAHAAAA, must frag, must frag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eros, apologizes in advance for all the bad grammar, spelling, and generally insane mumblings.
>btw don't you love the cheat codes of descent? gabbagabbahey, hilarious!
Make sure you remap the mine key before giving doing the codes, or you might end up with with a nasty surprise!
I just played the D3 demo for the first time rescently. I have to say that the robots have gotten alot smarter...
I can't wait. I'll be there in line at the store for this one for sure. To my mind descent is -the- game to have. 6 degrees of freedom rock! Small detour into Descent freespace that was no fun - where was the sliding damn it!? I'm delighted to finally have descent for linux. Head to head descent is the only thing that keeps the windows partition on my machine alive. Time to vote with my wallet.
... with eskimo chains i tatto my brain all the way...
I have a p2-400, voodoo3, 128mb of ram, and it runs fine. 1024x786 is still asking a lot, so 800x600 does fine for me. I get 40-50, sometimes 100fps framerates in indoor levels (lower res, tho). Granted, the features it offers are what bring it down at times. turn them down. And for outdoor levels, I suggest you turn down the rendering distance. Single player is fun as hell (and hard), and multiplayer, IMO, is a LOT better than any Quake game. Descent3 is one of the few games i have seen that has run wonderfully out of the box, and kept my attention until i finished it.
/. post from inside linux (!)
My first
I played at normal difficulty, is it ace? It sounds like hard but then I think there were 2 harder levels above it and 2 below so I took it as normal. Maybe I should've eaten that pill and called myself rookie just to get further in the game. :( And that's only level 5 or so?
Humunculous is the one... are you saying that if you're over/under him he can't hit you? Because you can't run from him, afterburners are still slower than he is (bigger mass = faster move ?!). What I eventually did is hide in those dark places left and right of where he emerges from, and sometimes - takes try&pray, save/load a dozen times, he won't follow so you have "only" cops to deal with, and after they're done you can try your luck on him. Unfortunately the game is buggy so once he just disappeared and I couldn't finish the level - guided missiles still went for him but God knows where he was. So only on the third try (first save bug, then dissapearance bug) I finished it... took me the whole evening. 4 direct hits with mega missiles and he still doesn't even slow down while advancing
1) I thought freshmeat was for the announcement of game/app/utility releases/ports. Slashdot, as far as I understand it, is supposed to be for newsworthy things, not simple port announcements. Perhaps the original release of Descent 3 was newsworthy, but an announcement of an incomplete port to another OS is certainly not.
2) Why would you want to play Descent 3 without a joystick?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Anyway, I recently bought D3 but haven't played it as much as I'd like to because of the hassle of rebooting, so this is great news! (less great if it's not going to be a complete, fully supported port)
It seems I'll be playing Quake 2, Quake 3 and Descent 3 in linux soon. To complete my collection I just need Falcon 4 and Shogo.
Regarding Shogo: If you're like me, and think that in a certains sense, ID games have been going downhill since Wolf3D (you're not on edge as you peak through the doors with 20% health, you don't jump in your seat when you're shot in the back) then Shogo's out-of-vehicle parts may appeal to you.
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Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
Descent...yawn.... :) Tribes 2 is gonna have a linux server, but no client. Let Sierra/Dynamix know you want a clent!
DISCLAIMER: this is not intended to be a flamebait. Just my experience, observations and opinion.
I tried playing Q2 under Linux. Basically you have two options: run it under X, in which case it runs in a tiny window; or run it under svgalib, which is quite outdated. Neither way is good. Q2 is noticeably slower under Linux then under Windows.
I also heard about the DGA mode in X. In fact I downloaded a demo of (forget what) from loki.com specifically to try DGA. Well, I must admit it actually works. But you have to run the game as root. Q2, on the other hand, doesn't support it.
When a game is ported to Linux, what *exactly* is it ported to? X? If so, that is a rather bad idea. X is a bottleneck for games.
I think graphics support should be a part of the kernel. Games should not require X to run. Only then can you get acceptable performance. I know lots of people object that, but
1. You always have an option not to compile it.
2. It is IMHO better then running games as root.
Is kernel framebuffers / ggi supposed to do that?
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Really disappointed. Says NT supported on the box and nothing but problems. "Standard setup, sb16 w. latest drivers, Voodoo2, latest drivers, PPRO 233, NT 4.0 SP5.
Other than being crashy the game is AWESOME. Played 16 of the 17 levels (a rarity for me).
This is great news. The Descent series has been driving my hardware upgrade budget for 4 years now ;). I now have yet another reason to dump windows.
Moderation in everything, including moderation.
Now, I know this is SlashDot, the epitome of Linux users and Evilsoft hatred (I'm only one half of that... so far), so I'm betting there's very few other Windoze users on here who read all this , but I just gotta ask this:
Are there any other Windoze users out there who are stalling their transition to Linux SOLELY because of the games they play?
I mean, if Team17 makes a Linux version of Worms: Armageddon, that and D3 will be it for me. Give me a C++ compiler and I'll try to continue learning C++ on Linux...
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Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
I still play D1 from time to time and I use a simple joystick (right hand) and the keyboard (left hand). The joystick for turning and firing, and these keys:
Tab: automap
Caps: slide upward
A: move forward
LShift: slide left
Z: move backward
X: slide right
LCtrl: slide downward
I have a USB modem, an edgeport hub (I need it - I have 4 serial devices), and two video cards (V770 + Stealth 3d2000). I really need this setup, which of course doesn't work under Linux.
I run X normally with 15bpp. I then have a game mode, that is 16bpp. This lets me go fullscreen without worrying about the mouse panning. And as I said above, games can go fullscreen without all of this fuss automatilcy like q3test, to bad none of them do.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Reread the license. It's not even close to a free license. It forbids any commercial activity whatsoever.
Anyone else think we shout petition Parallax/Outrage/whoever to GPL the Descent 1 sources? What harm can it do now?
Descent is still a very cool game. Sure the graphics are a bit outdated but it's not in any way an ugly game. Put a modern 3D-engine on Descent 1/2 and you have a winner. Descent 3 has a modern 3D-engine - but the game itself sucks really bad. The cool atmosphere of D1/2 is gone, Descent 3 is seriously boring. I played the demo for 15 mins and then deleted it. It's a decent looking game with outrageous hardware requirements (K6-2@400 + Voodoo3 = slow) and absolutety no future.
Re: Full screen
If you want to play 3D games, you probably want a 3D card. I believe 3dfx cards have a Mesa extension to go fullscreen. My G200 doesn't, but Q2 just positions the window at 0,0 and reduces the resolution. As for being root to use DGA... that's not right. Either you have X horribly misconfigured or it needs root for something else.
Re: Games in X
I live in X with many xterms, so it doesn't bother me any. If you don't, then you're right about GGI. I believe there is already a 3D API in GGI with support for 3dfx cards. At this point, I don't think that 3D is part of the framebuffer interface, but I could be wrong...
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