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Encouraging Female Programmers
aquarium writes "Why is programming dominated by males? The St.Louis Post-Dispatch has a story that states one of the reasons is that girls are not encouraged to experiment with computers. Speaking as a male, I did not need anyone to encourage me to experiment with computers. It was something that just came naturally." According to the story, Carnegie Mellon University is actively recruiting female CS majors. This year they expect 37% of freshman CS students to be women, up from 8% in 1995.
Times changed, and women started to demand access to this creation of man. That's when all the problems started. Men resisted women's attempts because they created the workplace to get away from women! Men wanted to act like men and do manly things, and this would have to stop if there were women around. Now we have all these extra rules and restrictions, and forcing men and women to act alike is making life difficult for everyone.
None of this would have happened if men treated women right in the first place. Women figured (rightly so) that if they were financially independent, they wouldn't need to depend on men, and they wouldn't have to put up with men. I believe that if men weren't such assholes and treated women properly, we'd have a lot fewer problems in our society.
What has this to do with women in CS? Well, the CS field is just one of those things that was created by men for men. That's not to say that women can't be programmers, but based on all the other comments, there seems to be a consensus that of the few women in the CS field, almost none of them are real hackers. And it's the real hackers that drive the industry. Men need to drive things, to push them forward, to discover what can and can't be done. There are some women who feel that way, but only a small percent, and apparently it depends on what field.
Having said that, I believe that it's very important for women to be encouraged into fields that are male-dominated, because we need to make sure that those who are able to compete in these fields (and believe me, it IS a competition) should be given the opportunity to do so if they want. But that's something that I think everything should have, not just women.
as an Orientation Counsellor. They're a pretty sharp bunch.
The class of 2001 has 14 women.
The class of '02 has 28 (my year). We were impressed by that.
Way to go geek chicks!
Seriously, I'm impressed that CMU has come this far without resorting to quotas, only recruiting heavily in the areas they feel need more diversity.
I didn't read the article, but I have to say something. IMHO, "Trying to add memory to your computer" is a good thing not to try, regardless of gender, unless you are at least fairly deep into computers. Do you know the size, speed, parity, EDOness, feature-du-jour of your [SD]IMMs? I don't, and I built one of my machines from scratch!
To go with the gender analogy, I could see a similar note not to do your own RAM in Car and Driver or Popular Woodworking.
--The basis of all love is respect
I thought it might be useful for you guys to read this excerb from Appendix B of the Hacker Dictionary (aka Jargon File):
Hackerdom is still predominantly male. However, the percentage of women is clearly higher than the low-single-digit range typical for technical professions, and female hackers are generally respected and dealt with as equals.
In the U.S., hackerdom is predominantly Caucasian with strong minorities of Jews (East Coast) and Orientals (West Coast). The Jewish contingent has exerted a particularly pervasive cultural influence (see Food, above, and note that several common jargon terms are obviously mutated Yiddish).
The ethnic distribution of hackers is understood by them to be a function of which ethnic groups tend to seek and value education. Racial and ethnic prejudice is notably uncommon and tends to be met with freezing contempt.
When asked, hackers often ascribe their culture's gender- and color-blindness to a positive effect of text-only network channels, and this is doubtless a powerful influence. Also, the ties many hackers have to AI research and SF literature may have helped them to develop an idea of personhood that is inclusive rather than exclusive -- after all, if one's imagination readily grants full human rights to future AI programs, robots, dolphins, and extraterrestrial aliens, mere color and gender can't seem very important any more.
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I am all for schools encouraging females to enter CS programs, but the real steps IMO need to be taken with girls while they are young. In a lot of cases, the problems are not just that girls are not encouraged to experiment and play with computers/technology, but that they are discouraged (sometimes actively, sometimes subtly). Around Junior High seems to be a critical time for girls, determining whether they will have the self-confidence to succeed in what they want to do, or whether they will succumb to the popular ideal and submerge their own personality.
... yet. Unfortunately, that is not the case for a lot of women.
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Girls also need more positive role models in science and technology. This has got to be one of the toughest things - society, as a whole, does not reward women who embark on a traditionally male-dominated career path. How many female instructors/professors have you witnessed in the physical sciences and in computer technology? This lack of role models is something that is rarely acknowledged as a problem, but has been shown to affect career choices of female students.
I am lucky - my parents encouraged me to do what I wanted, and to have confidence in myself. Even with that support, it was still difficult to be an intelligent girl interested in science and technology. Subtle prejudice from teachers ("But you're so good at English!!!") and peer pressure made my life difficult at times. I still find sometimes that my appearance is taken more seriously than my work (Recently a VB instructor commented to me that as well as being one of his "best" students, I was one of his "prettiest"... what an effective way to reduce me to a superficial level!!!)
Oooh, the rant must stop. But as one of the minority of female programmers here, I just have to mention that there is a lot of negative stuff that still affects females in non-traditional areas. I am lucky, most of the negative feedback I have had has been silly and petty, and hasn't limited my advancement
Sometimes I wonder if I *should* be encouraging females to go into CS/IT
YS
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
Hmmm... I'm having trouble distinguishing between your argument and that of the other AC. Care to post some evidence yourself rather than just pointing out that the other AC didn't?
;)
It'll be much harder for folks to ignore the evidence if you'll post it!
Geeky modern art T-shirts
> Geek chicks are so few, that in my school, the
> girls get their pick of the hoardes of geek
> guys.
It reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon, where Dilbert is trying to explain the blessing of being an engineer to a high-school class. (from memory)
Dilbert: And since there are so few female engineers, they have the added advantage of being able to pick among a lot of male engineers for dating.
Girl from class: Would we *have* to date an engineer?
heheh! But, seriously, while you're clearly being sarcastic, reread your argument and consider it coming from another perspective. With a few words changed to switch the genders, the last half of your post sounds like you're making fun of official affirmative action itself!
However, while your logic clearly argues against affirmative action, I'm left unsure whether or not you support it, at least in this case. [Ed. note: "affirmative action" is used here to mean any unequally applied effort to recruit or assist one gender/race/ethnic group over another.]
Geeky modern art T-shirts
I should leave this alone, but I can't ...
... but it certainly helps if you can relate to the role model. Girls will often relate to other women, go figure. And it always strikes me, if I walk into a workplace that is all male - why aren't there women here? Is it an unfriendly place for a woman to work?
/. posts claiming that "airhead" girls get CS jobs because they are "babes".
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... The fact that girls aren't drawn to the blood-and-gore shoot-em-ups does NOT reflect a lack of ability to program! But the lack of games out there does mean that computers may not be as attractive for young females. Hopefully this situation will improve, at least the game companies will someday want to tap that market that they are missing ... Perhaps the computer itself is not the thing that is not interesting, but the lack of any uses that computer can be put to by the girl in question. The web, with its boundless information resources and communications capability is already bringing large numbers of women into the computer-using world, and I hope will also help young girls become more comfortable in using computers and see a reason to do so.
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... same as to the higher-scoring guys!
Role models don't HAVE to be of the same sex
As for the "compliment", yeah, there is room for debate over its appropriateness and if I am overreacting in feeling that it was inappropriate. But in a career where there are allegations that women get jobs because of their looks, not their skills, it is difficult to be taken seriously when your appearance is the focus. I don't expect most males to understand this, but I have seen previous
Now my experiences in high school are my own, and I hope that other females have had better ones! My science teachers were the ones who practised the subtle prejudice in their career suggestions. Steve, the 4th highest student in Chem, Physics and Bio, was encouraged to go into engineering. Girls held the top 3 spots, but we were encouraged to go into "journalism", "education" and (well, this isn't so bad) "law". Science/technology was never suggested to us.
I have some references in terms of limited advancement for women (and minorities too) in comp sci:
Educational Pipeline Issues for Women
Women in Science and Engineering
I doubt if the males out there who suggest there is no problem will read these articles, but they may be of interest to other women in this area
Again, I don't know if there is a need for "artificial encouragement" here - little girls *are* given Barbies and baby dolls, and boys are given mechanical toys. Girls are expected to be quiet and feminine, while boys are encouraged to get dirty and take apart the toaster. Those are generalizations, and some families are providing non-stereotypical upbringings for kids, but mainstream media (including commercials) gives the same old message.
There is a lack of good software for girls right now
One thing I find interesting in this debate is how upset some of the men out there are getting about this. It's not like big scholarships are being given to stupid girls or something. Getting the feeling there is a lot of insecurity out there
YS
PS. My C instructor was a pretty cool guy - only comments he made to me were about my programming skills
"Arrr! The laws of science be a harsh mistress." -- Bender
Geeks are a lot like a separate species - we have different habitats than the average, we do different things to survive, and so on. So when there is no balance of sexes within the geek world, there is no joy in geekdom. We could, of course, mate outside of our species by trying to attract, say, girls in the more female friendly arts. But that's outside of our native habitat, and it's hard to not feel like a fish out of water when visiting the clubs and what-not where people normally congregate to meet members of the appropriate sex.
Probably the best way to improve this alarming situation is to recruit more females into our ranks. I would argue that this is not purely a gender equity situation; consider it an attempt to ensure the survival of the species by allowing us to reproduce with those of our own kind. Otherwise, geek traits are bound to die out, and it will be our own fault.
D
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I think the biggest problem women have (as well as most minorities) is that they oppress themselves and don't even know it. They demand all sorts of equalities and opportunities, and then they go back to their old ways. "Cosmopolitan" claims to empower women, but I think it backfires.