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Simple Terminals w/ Small Footprints?
ylem asks: "I have a Linux box running in my computer room. At times I would like to just have a terminal session running to my box from my living room for programming. I am looking for a laptop type terminal. Very dumb. I am talking VT220 or VT420 type. I checked Wyse but all they have are keyboard and full monitor types. I am looking for small (laptop-sized) and cheap (no CPU, no harddrive, etc). I did a search for on-sale places online but nothing matching my need." Hmmm... this is a description of an odd beast, that I don't think exists (please correct me if I'm wrong). However, a laptop should work just as well. It doesn't have to be a hefty one and something from the used-bin should work just fine. A 486 laptop should be able to handle text mode quite well. What do you folks think?
I've seen it done, and it's very cool indeed.
Now if only I could get one and figure out how to do it myself...
I haven't tried these, but they look pretty cool. Linux Systems Labs carries a $90 plug-in card by Dynamic Systems (anyone know anything about them?) which they describe as:
e x.htm
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A Diskless Workstation is a Network interface card configured with boot ROMs suitable for booting Linux into a diskless workstation. The user need only install the card in the system, power up and the computer will boot from the Bootp Server.
These Diskless Workstations include the following:
NE2000 compatible, 10mb, RJ-45, BNC, ISA Bus.
PROM Chip Programmed with Boot Image.
Network Board Configuration Floppy.
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This has to be about the easiest way to put an old box into use again, and considering that the board includes a NIC it's pretty damned inexpensive. The full link is:
http://www.lsl.com/catalog/hardware/dlwksta/ind
I'm thinking about getting an Apple PowerBook Duo for a similar purpose. For an old laptop, they care small and light. Since it doesn't have a floppy, you better get a duo dock with a floppy if you don't already have a terminal emulator on it or want to update software on it's hard drive. Unfortunately, linux-m68k doesn't work on the powerbooks yet, but it works great on my se/30 which is currently linked via serial cable to my intel linux machine.
That's a very miniature solution... I would suggest getting an old HP200LX palmtop instead however. The keyboard has more keys (though it's a bit less typing friendly than the Psion) the screen is better and the terminal software is built in. Just a simple serial cable will do. I've used one for this purpose in the past. HP200LX's can be bought cheaply on ebay.
This is exactly what I use, an old A5 sized 286 BICOM portable with an MSDOS (actually running on DRDOS) terminal emulator. If you want to run serial at 115k2 you'll need at least 16Mhz (more if the emulator is slow), I use my own (very fast) SCO console emulator and it works perfectly. Don't forget that 'screen' is also a good companion program to use with this sort of thing.
I've got a standard Macintosh SE with 1MB of RAM and an 8MB harddisk, I believe. It's in perfect working order (has been in storage for many years). It's got an expansion slot that I've heard you can put an ethernet card in. I'd like to get this machine on the network for use as a terminal. Does anyone know where I could buy such a card? What terminal software would I need?
A DEC VT### is certainly what you need and DEC does sell their current model (VT510?) I believe, yet it's $400, and they are roughly the same size as a VT 420, yet larger than the VT320 and VT220 certainly.
Yet, that's spensive. I'd contact local schools and businesses to see what they have in "storage". VTx20's were very popular in schools for programming and word processing courses when VAXen were common, as with medium sized businesses.
And don't forget to check the auction sites, there's got to be at least a few floating around at any given time.
An alternative is a small footprint 386/486 which you can shove in a corner and you can run Coda or NFS. 386s are free if you dive around in enough dumpsters, and 486s can be had at yard sales for $20-30.
Try NetTerm ( http://www.netterm.com )It does all the usual emulations including Linux-Console. All the emulations I have used so far have been rock solid and fast. (Unlike certain other emulators.) It does cost money ( $20 ) but I think it is well worth the expense.
Older notebooks make excellent terminals for a home LAN. I use two 486 notebooks, one running a lightweight install of Red Hat 6.0 w/ SSH and an X server. The other one has only a 486SLC (no math coprocessor) and an 80 meg HD and won't run Linux comfortably, so I use DOS-based Kermit and a TCP/IP packet driver for a Telnet session. Prior to Kermit, I used a serial link w/ Procomm Plus.
This is what I love about Linux, and Unix in general, you don't need to maintain and synchronize 5+ computers, just have access to one computer from everywhere.
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If you can find a 286 laptop, that's really all you need. You can run MINIX or SCO/286 (if you can find it) on such a beast and connect over the serial port. (If it's not a concern for you, you can also use MS-DOG based terminal emulation sw.)
I had such a setup in my dorm my junior year in college. You can probably get a [23]86 for free if you know where to look, but you'll probably have to leave them plugged in all the time because the battery is liable to be dead and irreplacible.
woggo
Just buy a crappy laptop (486). If you get one that has easily replacable parts, like a thinkpad or a toshiba, then you don't have to worry about warranty etc. I'm very happy with the one I bought on ebay (~$150). One word of warning, however: you won't get a good battery. That's just the way it is. If you are looking for portability farther than an extension cord away from a wall socket, then you might need to pay.
If all you need is shell access, do what others have suggested and find an old terminal. Laptops are too much cash for too much hardware. I routinely find Dec VT320 and 420 terminals at swap meets (SF bay area) but they are really easy to find via ebay or other such avenues. Terminals are easy (no moving parts) to maintain and even easier to set up under most of the free un*x flavors and linux. I use Freebsd, but before that I had 2 vt320 running off a slackware box. A cheap laptop is nice, but for simplicity, a dumb serial terminal is the way to go.
If there are laptop size terminals out there, I'd bet you'll pay through the nose for one.
a /wa/goto?page=encore
So a cheap laptop should do. I bought a refurbished Toshiba (Don't buy a used one from private sale. Warranties are extremely important for laptops, where you can't simply replace a flaky component.). Refurb is the way to go. I'm happy with mine (though I desperately need a RAM upgrade).
Check out this link:
http:// www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Toshiba.wo
I have a Mac SE that I use for a dumb terminal at work. Self contained, small footprint, CHEAP ($30 on ebay) and it does the job.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
Does anyone knows if there is any standard for laptops? I mean, the keyboard, display and HD connections? I've noticed that some notebooks from NEC and Toshiba have the same keyboard connector. I've also been able to get the HD's pinouts(they're just IDE discs with different connectors, they'll require some soldering). If there's any(even if unnoficial), we could easily pick old parts in a trash can and assemble a terminal(but not so dumb, eh?). I have a 386/16Mhz beast whose power suppy circuits failed. As these are embedded in the motherboard I'm unable to use it anymore. However, it has a good(albeit monocrome) display, a good(for a laptop, and small) keyboard and a small HD. Since I also have some standard 486's and 386's motherboards, I wonder if I can be able to connect those things to create a new pc, if they follow the same standards.
I'd definately have to agree.
Z-Term is the only way to go.
(In college, I had a Centris650 in my dorm, connected via ISN (a 9600/19200 bps ATT network). The machine was up through the full semester, 'till they made us clear out for christmas break.)
Which brings me to a little known fact:
When first connecting, in the corner, ZTerm displays min:sec, then, after you get to hours, it displays hrs:min....after 60hrs, it displays:
(hrs/60):(remainder)
I think I had that first number up to 30 or so....(ie, 2.5 months)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
There's a BSD distribution that runs off a floppy:
picoBSD.
it definately has network support, as I'm using it for a router. (on a borrowed 486, with a 9" b&w monitor I picked up for $10 at a computer show)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
As an aside to this thread, can anyone recommend a terminal emulator that will emulate the linux console (i.e. F1-10, etc) so when I telnet into my linux boxen from win95/98 I can better enjoy the experience (and X is out of the question as is VNC).
thx,
bobm
There are around there some Linux distributions that run on a floppy, I use LOAF (http://loaf.ecks.org/) and you could use it really easy on a laptop, the problem here may be network adapter support. Or there are still arounf very ligth distros, not on a floppy but something you can use on a laptop.
I'd suggest the ultimate small footprint terminal, a Mac Plus. They have a tiny footprint, built in monitor and you can get nice freeware terminal emulation programs on the net. The price: 20$-30$ US. The drawback is these machines have no hardrive... that's why I like to snack on the Mac SE, which usually runs 30$-40$.
If you want a 486 box w/no keyboard or monitor I will send you one if you are willing to pay S&H.
Pinche Gonzales
pinche@prontomail.com
- slappin the taste back into ya mouth since 1975.
My Psion 3A pocket organizer has a real keyboard and a screen that's legible at 25x80 (though it's pretty small print), and there's free vt100 terminal software available. It's particularly nice for those times that you need to connect to a router console or server computer that you'd normally access with telnet. The Psion is a wonderful beast, with an interesting operating system, good physical design, and a small but fanatical bunch of supporters putting out free and commercial software.
Psion Web Ring
The 3A has a weird I/O requiring a somewhat expensive adapter cable, but the 3C uses a standard RS-232 cable (and also infrared!) and has a backlit screen. The 5 is a major redesign and can do lots of Internet things on its own. You can pick up a used 3-series model for about $150-200.
Of course, you could get a Palm Pilot and one of the keyboards that goes with it; just because I'm a Psion fan doesn't mean I don't know where the market leader is
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Another option is radio - WebGear Aviator is a ~2Mbps short-distance radio system that plugs into a parallel port, and they have other models for USB and PCMCIA. I don't know if there are Linux drivers yet or not. Their older models tend to be on sale at Fry's for about $100-150/pair. This means you can have the real PC in your computer room, but sit somewhere comfortable around the house with your laptop.
There are also phone-line and power-line systems for short-distance communications. Most of them are ~19200 instead of megabit speeds, but that's fine for terminal emulation and many programming activities.
Last time I saw a dumb terminal at a computer fair or the physical stores for Halted Specialties or Weird Stuff, it was about $10-20 for a wyse or equivalent.
Old Macintoshes are about $25. They're not as portable as a laptop, but they're a bit smaller than most dumb terminals, and they're cute.
There are all sorts of small portable computers, laptop-like things, industrial portables, penpads, etc. which can be cheap because they're obsolete but are still good enough to use as a remote terminal while sitting on your back porch; some of the industrial models can even be used in your hot tub :-)
Unfortunately, most older portables used specialized batteries, typically NiCad, and the batteries are often dead or near-dead and new replacements can't be found, so you either have to do battery hacking or run them off A/C, and eithe r way you tend to void the watertightness that lets you use them in the tub, as well as being less convenient.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Couldn't you just buy a really crappy old 486 for like 150$ and use NFS to get almost the same effect? Or you could even run a serial cable down and connect that way. (first!)
I got a refurbished Toshiba via CompUSA direct. Normal price was $1399, I got it for $999. Works great with Linux, and I haven't had any problems with it.
I just bought a Wyse terminal the other day (new in the box) for precisely this purpose. Got a couple of RJ45-DB25 adapters and ran some cabling from my machine room to my living room.
The thing works great (though it's text only, and this one monochrome at that). It's basically a self-contained monitor unit with a keyboard. What was your objection to this type of setup?
You can get a cheapie serial terminal such as this for anywhere from $10 to $50 (check eBay).
Now if I can just get used to the keyboard...