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Loki Announces Loki Hack 1999 Contest
Ethelred Unraed writes "Loki Entertainment Software has announced a contest where an elite group of hackers (in C++, that is) will be chosen to improve their port of Civilization: Call to Power. The winner will get a dual-processor Linux box as a prize. Take a look at their info page for more. " Thats a pretty crazy contest idea. They ought to give the winner a job.
I was at the Denver LUG where Scott (Loki's president) unfficially announed this on Tuesday evening. Apparantly, Activision owns the copyright and they are hesitant to embrace the open-source model. They are afraid of thier competition getting a hold of thier clever "trade secret" hacks. Scott talked Activision into this contest as a way to prove, even on a small scale, that open source works. Hopefully, with any luck, some great hacks will come out of this and Activision will see the err of thie perevious ways.
When's the last time you got to see the source code for a commercial game -- and not several years after the fact.
it's not like you are releasing the source, but here are a few that come to mind.
Abuse - crack.com
Wolf/Doom/Quake - id
Decent - parallax
Abuse was released about a year after it came out (faster than the linux port of Civ?)
When's the last time you got to modify a game, change the rules the way you like, add something you think is missing? Then get your changes posted for the rest of the world to play around with.
What game today doesn't let you do this? Unreal, quake, etc. Even Abuse allowed you to add new characters and hacks the day it came out by planning for that kind of thing and putting in an interpreter.
The only reason for this contest is because Civ didn't plan for the mod comunity. The only way to add new stuff is to give people the source. While it's nice to study, a good game shouldn't have to give out the source code. That's like giving people the source to a JVM and telling them to "hack stuff in" rather than make the JVM complete in the first place.
hmmm... is it possible to make a dual 486? that might speed things up at the low end how about a group of 5 386 chips? what would a computer with a dual pentium setup cost?
At college we had a Sequent Symmetry that started with 8 386-16MHz processors and slowly migrated up to either 16 or 32 (I forget how many) 486-33MHz processors. It was the fastest machine on campus for _years_. Pity it had to be decomissioned because we couldn't get any more hard drives for it. Needless to say, it was _not_ cheap, but at least it did _not_ run anything from Redmond.
Even wierder, I think there used to be an architecture out there called a 'Hypercube' that was anywhere up to 256 '286 processors in parallel. That's right, 2^8 Intel 80286 CPU's. If I remember correctly, though, it had _no_ '287's and so it's floating point performance was still pretty sucky. Even so, I wish I could get my hands on one of these today. I'd put it right next to my NeXT.
In short, just about _any_ processor, no matter how weak, can be used in a powerful parallel system _if_ you are prepared to create an appropriate architecture and OS to support that many CPU's. The machine you come up with _could_ be relatively inexpensive to manufacture, but the development costs would enormous.
Stuff like SMP Linux and parallel computing standardizations have made parallel computers MUCH simpler and cheaper in recent history. But that's only if you use those standards etc., and I don't think you're going to find any older/cheaper architectures that follow the standards. Besides, the Dual Celeron board from Abit (the BP6) is _really_cool_ and _really_cheap_.
If you _really_ want to play with a cheap parallel system using older technology, don't think 'parallel computer'. Think 'cluster computer'. Think Beowulf. You won't be disappointed (and you won't have to take all those old processors out of their current cases).
Now, if Loki is offering something like a Beowulf cluster in return for 48 hours worth of hacking on their game, I might enter. Realistically, though, I would probably be more interested in their contest more if they offered the winner a job instead of the computer (at least a job better than the one I currently have).
It might be interesting to enter their contest for just the chance to look at their current game code, which I beleive is not open source. But that brings up an entirely different subject. Since the contestants have to be able to look at their current closed source, they will probably reqire the contestants to sign all sorts of 'Non-Disclosure - Non-Compete' forms. And trust me, NO computer or contest (or job for that matter) is worth all that.
Perhaps I should put the previous paragraph up as a post on its own.
I'd like to dispel any confusion about what we're trying to accomplish with Loki Hack. Seems like some people have assumed that we're looking for free work on the port, bug fixes, or the like. Wrong.
The idea is this. When's the last time you got to see the source code for a commercial game -- and not several years after the fact. When's the last time you got to modify a game, change the rules the way you like, add something you think is missing? Then get your changes posted for the rest of the world to play around with. And all of this supported by the developer? And we throw in some prizes too.
This is the closest we can get to open source with our products. The world won't see the source, but the contestants will. And all the hacks, mods, changes will be posted in binary form, freely downloadable for the world to see. Know anyone who has seen the Windows code for this game?
Of course, we're going to help people along. Loki developers will be present to answer questions during the hack. We'll also have an intro session to get people familiar with the code.
For those unaware, it's a very big deal for a commercial game company to let you look at their source for a current product. Activision is going out on a limb with this. We want to show them what the open source community can accomplish.
Scott Draeker
President
Loki Entertainment Software
CTP is a slow game with serious bugs that is barely playable on a Celeron 300 w/ 64 MB. All this for a 2D game that would have been revolutionary in the late 80's. Yes I paid my $40 bucks. Yes I wanted to support a cool company and Linux. And yes, I'm bitter.
Loki isn't all bad. Their developers field actual bug reports and there has been one patch set to cure some of the more serious problems. They are a new place and they might port or create a good game someday. Apparently a lot of the problems with CTP exist in the Windows version, so they might have been just dealt a bad hand.
That being said, the new contest they have created is a joke. Imagine if someone said to you, "you're a damn good programmer. I want you to spend some time doing some programming for us. No
we won't pay you, but you might get a decent computer out of it and we get to keep your code and sell it."
Considering this, what are your incentives:
You really need that 'puter:
A good C++ programmer can make enough money to buy the computer in what, a couple of days?
Pure altruism:
Perhaps, but you would be probably increase your cosmic oneness more by contributing to an open source project.
Ego:
Your kung fu is the best. You want everybody to know it. Well good luck, but here's a hint. If you're that good you should either be getting pay or serious recognition out of the deal, or possibly both.
A job at Loki:
Ok, you want to work at Loki, this might be a good way to strut your stuff, but they are getting far more out of the deal than you. Companies typically pay thousands to track down and hire a qualified candidate for a job, without immediate benefit to themselves.
You really like CTP and want to see how it works:
I don't agree, but curiousity is a valid reason for anything in life.
You really like CTP but the bugs annoy the crap out of you:
There are probably lots of people that fit in this category. Probably enough to give Loki their computer's worth. Go a head, give the Man a hand. He'll make it worth your while.
--
"L'IT c'est moi!"
I'm not really a strong C++ coder, so I thought I'd throw out some ideas I'd like to see be put into the game.
If you take over an enemy's capital, you should gain all of his/her cities. But, the cities should have an enourmous happiness cost, spawning revolutions in many of them for an unprepared attacker. This also makes bloodlust games less tedious to win.
Perl/Python/Java/etc. scripting. I know this one is a big task for 48 hours, but it'd be nice. Maybe someone could mention it to someone when they're there. The current scripting language is lacking (particularly in documentation).
New units: Land-based troop carriers. This would make it easier to carry large amounts of troops. Differing levels, as well. Different movement, whether they can move over mountains, etc. Also, some could be invisible (like the spy and cleric), to hide the units within.
At the end of the science, going for "future cultural 23" is kinda boring and annoying that it comes up. Add a science that converts science into gold, like Capitalization turns production into gold.
Like "Fortify" and "Sleep", add a command to tellt he unit to wait out the turn. For instance, a settler wants to settle on a river. But, he only needs one move to gain the ground. The settler can't settle until the next move. "Sleep" will cause him to be forgotten the next turn. Make a command like "at ease" or something to mean "chill until the next turn".
I think that's all I can think of for now.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
--Jamin Philip Gray
jamin@DoLinux.org
Celebrate the finer things in life
IANAL, but it seems to me...
:-)
That this is probably illegal as it amounts to hiring people to do work without paying them. It depends on the state they are in, etc. In California you'd never get away with this
If they don't actually pay at least minimum wage for the duration of the "contest", they probably can't claim ownership of what the contestants produce, especially if they plan to release them as part of a commercial product.
In many states it's hard to give up your rights to this kind of thing, so even if they have the "contestants" sign away their lives on some contract, there may be laws that override any such contract provisions, and provide fertile ground for any number of lawsuits.
G.
I'm going to give up my privileges to moderate the comments for this article to say a public "Thank You" to Scott for taking the time to respond.
I think he presented the pertinent points quite well, so I won't go over them again. Suffice to say that I believe people are being way to critical of Loki on this issue.
Yes, the situation isn't a perfect mesh with the Open Source ideals. They aren't releasing the code to the world so that everyone can have a crack at improving the game or possibly learn from examples. This is far better than nothing. It looks like it would be a lot of fun too.
It's just a shame that I don't know C++ well enough to have a chance to be one of the thirty. Such is life.
... Back to my original point. Thanks again Scott. You've really improved the image of Loki in my mind.
Make your contribution to Civilization! No, not all civilization, but rather you have the chance to take part in our Freeciv Hack 2000 contest to improve Freeciv. Recent improvements include more races and nations, city build lists, and the addition of more CivII rules (paratroopers, more terrain specials). Other improvements such as GUILE scripting, improved AI, hex maps, and stacked combat are being developed. (Read our mailing list archives for more info.)
What is Freeciv Hack 2000? It's a special contest in cooperation with an international term of developers, where you can show off your Linux (and BSD, commercial Unix, BeOS, Java, even Windows) hacking skills to everybody...and win prizes to boot! First prize is the ego gratification of getting your name in the PEOPLE file.
Here's how it works: download the source from ftp.freeciv.org and get to hacking. Everybody with a C compiler will be chosen. If you're chosen, you can show up to our hackfest, which will conveniently be held on your own computer!
Any and all changes and improvements worthy of improving Freeciv (and, by extension, civilization as a whole) will be included in the CVS snapshots and new public releases starting with 1.8.2. So what are you waiting on? Download the source and get hacking!
JMC
"Flame On!"
I can't believe people are complaining that Loki's prize
isn't big enough or doesn't cost enough to 'make it worth my time.'
Here's my advice: If the prize offered isn't big enough... DON'T ENTER!
But please, stop the complaining.
"Flame Off!"
Thanks to Johny Storm and the Fantastic 4.
Im not sure why or if it's just slow.....anyway...here's the text on the page if thats all you want (and the server keeps crawling).
Loki Hack 1999
Make your contribution to Civilization! No, not all civilization, but rather you have the chance to take part in our Loki Hack 1999 contest to improve our Linux port of Civilization: Call to Power. (Then again, by making Civilization better, you can make civilization better, too. You get the idea.)
What is Loki Hack 1999? It's a special contest in cooperation with Activision, Inc., the Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts, and the Atlanta Linux Showcase, where you can show off your Linux hacking skills to everybody...and win prizes to boot! First prize is a dual-processor screamer of a machine, running Linux, of course.
Here's how it works: apply to enter below and tell us about yourself. Thirty participants will be selected based on experience and involvement in Linux development--strong C++ skills are a must--and chosen participants will be notified via e-mail. Then, if you're chosen, you can show up to our invitation-only hackfest, which will run for 48 hours in a secure setting, on October 11-13, 1999 at the Atlanta Linux Showcase at the Cobb Galleria Centre.
Any and all changes and improvements worthy of improving Civilization: Call to Power (and, by extension, civilization as a whole) will be included in an upcoming special-edition update for the game. The best of the best will receive that beast of a computer. So what are you waiting on? Fill out the form below and get hacking!
I can't believe it. I think Loki just found the most cost effective mode of software development imaginable! They get hundreds of improvements on their port for the cost of a (nice) computer! Why didn't anyone think of this before. What a way to harness a bunch of good egos into doing their bidding...
I'm a gnu world man.
But doesn't it seem as if Loki will be getting a lot more out of this than the cost of a "dual processor Linux box"?
I have a contest idea! If you are an 31337 h4x0r, I will allow you to write key modules of my software for me, which I will then sell at enormous profit to me! The winner will receive this attractive T-shirt!
I also have some fine swampland real estate to discuss with you...
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
You don't develop those in a hurry. It took me a few years, but now I know the language inside and out and don't need the reference-books. Of course, now I'm moving to better languages (the dynamic ones)... I wish I had moved to them earlier, since C++ has a lot of problems in dynamic applications. I still have to use C++ for work though.
Strong C++ skills also include strong programming skills and those take a few years as well. The only thing that can make a good programmer is _experience_. Now looking back a few years, when I thought that I was a good programmer, the code looks like crap, a few years from now the code I write now will look like crap. There's always room for improvement.
I think the point where you really are good with language is when you've written something bigger with it (including design, my bigger project was around 20 KLOC). When the total lines of code you've written in that language is around 100000 then you should pretty much know it. I've written way more than that in C++. My point is that you can't become a good C++ programmer in 21 days, or even 21 weeks. Maybe you learn enough to work for a company in desperate need for new programmers, but not well enough to write well-designed C++.
It's not a bad start, but don't expect to get good without a lot of practice. If you already know how to program, then you may learn C++ a lot faster. I made the mistake of learning C++ as the first serious language and it probably slowed my learning down a lot. Had I learned a simpler language well-enough first, I would probably have learned C++ faster. The size of the language and the amount of idioms (small coding tricks, the C++ way of doing things) in C++ is overwhelming.
To seriously learn C++ I suggest that you learn OOA/D (good code requires good analysis of the problem and good design !) from, for instance, Rumbaugh's or Jakobson's books (I don't like Booch). For the small C++ tricks there's Coplien's book on C++ idioms (can't remember the exact name). The book "Design Patterns: Elements of reusable object-oriented software" is one of the classics of OOP. Scott Myers' "Effectice C++" and "More Effective C++" may be of some use to more advanced C++ programmers. You learn most of these things with enough practice, but why learn through trial-and-error (like I did), when the books can give you a head start and spare you of the worst.
How many lines of code does CTP have? I really don't know, but this is a significant piece of work here. The contestants will have 48 hours to compete in this thing.
My point being, it's going to take them most of the time just to read through the code to get a good grasp of how the system works. It will be the first time they see the header files, etc so they'll have to figure out what functions and classes do what and what they need to be passed, etc.
For this to be impressive, they would have to get the code and then have at least a week . . . then we would have some real bug fixes and imporvements. As is, this is just a publicity stunt.