Philippines Puts Curfew on Internet Cafes for Minors

Pao|o writes "The Philippine government, in all its wisdom, has recently passed laws to restrict the use of the net by minors. Read more about it here." Specifically, they're worried about Internet cafes. The story (in the Phillipine Daily Inquirer), says, "Concern over the operation of Internet centers heightened after Supt. Louie Oppus, Tagbilaran police chief, revealed that these establishments are being watched because they have become favorite hangouts of drug pushers and drug users."

Comments

oh great

[Xtacy]

just what is needed, drug pushers to screw up the internet for us, let alone the many other things they've screwed up.

I still hate the mentality of "hey some people are being bad, so lets not let ANYBODY do it"

Re:oh great

[GC]

I can't see how controls in one town in the Phillipines are going to affect the global internet, but then I gues Chaos theory predicts this... :)

This is really on the subject of Truancy

[GC]

I wouldn't say that this is anything to do with net controls. It seems more the concern of truancy and deliquancy. The curfew hours are 7am-5pm. So the kids can go to the Cafes and stay there all night?

Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. This news articles certainly questions the authority of law enforcement _all_over_the_world but from the article note and the response of certain individuals on /. it would seem that no one has read the article. We have truancy laws in Britain and although they are not specifically targeted at Internet cafes (I sure they will be when the police catch on) they are there. Kids caught wandering the local shops are taken home or to the school. Repeat offenders are treated harsher. No one posted to /. about that. We also have laws against drugs. We also have laws against hardcore pornography. It's not just in 'anti-democratic' countries where these things happen.

Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy

[hip2b2]

i believe that the newspaper made a typo. why the f*ck would you ban the internet cafes from 7am to 5pm??? and besides the article read "curfew". so, i suppose that it meant 7pm to 5am.

isn't 7pm to early for a curfew? and why have a daytime curfew. personally, this law does not make sense.

Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy

[cpt kangarooski]

Don't be so sure. A lot of popular kid hangouts - video arcades, theaters, malls, often kick kids out during school hours. I never got thrown out of the library when I cut school though ;)

Curfew purpose

[try67]

"7 a.m. to 5 p.m" - so basically they want the kids to skip school in order to logon the net? with this kind of decisions, maybe they would be better off with "netducation" then with the offical education...

Re:Curfew purpose

[j a w a d]

The opposite. The curfew is that kids CAN'T use the net 7 a.m. to 5 p.m.. That way, they won't skip school to hang out in internet cafe's.


j-a-w-a-d------------------------------

Notice curfew not raid

[Rares Marian]

seems everyone agrees with playing out the melodrama of the Net-aware teen who doesn't go to school. If you've got drug pushers you run a raid then leave the place alone. What hypocrisy.

Sometimes I get the feeling every politician being somewhat socially conscious wants to be the director, writer, and producer of his/her own live soap opera.

I've learned more on /. than 12 years on Public Ed

[Rares Marian]

Skip school if you're responsible enough to compete in the real world. If you've got the discipline, you've got a better chance.

we've got trouble, right here in river city

[Money__]

What I find most interesting about the story is that they are afraid of the suposed drug dealing that goes on at that location. This is another example of people accociating the open liberal ways of the internet and dismissing it as an evil influence in society. Is this something new? Something only the Inet is the victim of? Not at all! This happens in every society when a new technology is introduced. (Rent 'the gods must be crazy' for an illustration of this). I'm reminded of the old play "The music Man" set back in the arly part of the centtury. In the play, a small town (river city) is worried obout the influence of pool on it's young people. Pool? you say? yea, Billiards . . So when people start talking about the bad influence the Inet is having...just give them time, and society will adjust.

Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city

[sklib]

Heh, maybe if we all use the Think method, all our problems will go away.

Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city

[Just Some Guy]

What I find most interesting about the story is that they are afraid of the suposed drug dealing that goes on at that location.

What I find most interesting is the automatic presumption by so many ./ers that The Man is always wrong.

How many of you live in that part of the world? That country? That city? Do you know the unique social conditions involved?

No? Then just suppose that the police are correct, and that the 'net cafes really are bad places for kids to be. With that supposition, I don't see that this curfew necessarily has anything at all to do with the Internet and its "open liberal ways".

Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city

[Langdon]

>How many of you live in that part of the world? That country? That city? Do you know the unique social conditions involved?

Well, I live in the same country, and there's an Internet cafe right next door, so I think I can add something to support your points.

>No? Then just suppose that the police are correct, and that the 'net cafes really are bad places for kids to be. With that supposition, I don't see
>that this curfew necessarily has anything at all to do with the Internet and its "open liberal ways".

I haven't seen any drug dealers around, but the local pimps do hang out in this area. Right next to the police outpost, too. :)

That being said - most kids who can afford Internet cafes are the middle-class to lower-upper -class ones. This means cafes tend to spring up in "nice" neighborhoods, and only kids with money are found in them. Nice juicy targets for your local shabu dealer.

The curfew won't make any difference with the druggies - but it won't make much difference with 'Net freedom, too. Most activists here are well past high-school age (HS graduates are 16 or 17) and many universities are already on the Net.

Besides, for information, text-messaging has a wider reach here - text pagers are awfully cheap.
More students have pagers than email addresses.

That being said, see the other posts here about this being a local ordinance, not a law.

Great place for drug dealing

[bug_hunter]

Organising crime stuff via net in internet cafe's atleast stops chances of direct trace. Would be just the place to set up crime syndicate or spam.

Still, would be a bastard if I needed to check email really quickly during curfew time just before or after school at nearby cafe.

Better make it safe, give everybody a concrete bunker with no windows and connection to outside world. Only allow them out one hour a day, should ensure they don't get too influenced by the evils outside.

Internet not welcome to certain governments

[harmonica]

I'm pretty sure we will see news of this kind happen many times more (not only related to children) - the internet and its possibilities (fast information interchange, difficulties to filter/control content) must be a threat for any kind of anti-democratic government.
People in 'unfree' countries aren't dumb, but they don't have ways to inform themselves except for the government-ruled media (see Iraq, Serbia etc.). So the Internet can help people forming an opinion on political questions that is made up on the basis of facts, not propaganda. Unfortunately, access to the Internet is restricted already by the simple fact that even a low-cost PC is not affordable in many countries, even without artificial intervention by governments. Hopefully, this will change. As long as access is only possible at a couple of internet cafes, control is still relatively easy, you simply have to close them for whatever reason you come up with (drugs dealers etc.).

Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments

[Hobbex]

You find this very easy to apply to foreign governments like the horrible godawful Serbia and Iraq, but you seem to have forgot to mention that the governments that have been most active in strangling freedom on the Internet lately have been America's, the EU's, and Australia's regimes.

Which just happens to be pretty much the entire western "democractic" world...

Of course, unlike Iraq and Serbia which are run by horrible power hungry people whose single goal is to oppress there citizens, our benivolent governments are doing this to fight the horrible terrophiles. We should thank them!

My ass. How free are you yourself when it comes down to it? And are you dumb or just uninformed?


-
/. is like a steer's horns, a point here, a point there and a lot of bull in between.

Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure we will see news of this kind happen many times more (not only related to children) - the internet and its possibilities (fast information interchange, difficulties to filter/control content) must be a threat for any kind of anti-democratic government. People in 'unfree' countries aren't dumb, but they don't know ways to inform themselves except for the corporate-controlled mainstream media (see NBC, CNN etc.). So the Internet can help people forming an opinion on political questions that is made up on the basis of facts, not corporate propaganda. Unfortunately, access to the Internet is restricted already by the simple fact that even a low-cost PC is not affordable in many socio-economic groups, even without artificial intervention by monopolistic and colluding businesses. Hopefully, this will change. As long as access is only possible through a couple of major phone/cable/media corporations, control is still relatively easy, you simply have to promise them tax breaks for whatever reason you come up with (cost of self-regulation etc.).

Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments

[harmonica]

I think there's a difference between countries where on the one hand you (and your complete village) may be wiped out because you are part of an ethnic minority / belong to a certain religion / were just in the way and on the other hand a country where some wrong-lead politicians attempt to implement weird things, but where citizens learn about it in the news, can discuss it in public and choose to contact their congressman (or the non-US equivalent) without having to fear repression. If you don't see that difference, I'm sorry. Go ask a Chinese dissident.

Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments

[Hobbex]

Yes, but the difference is one of implementation, not idea.

-
/. is like a steer's horns, a point here, a point there and a lot of bull in between.

A warning for concerned parents.

[Signal 11]

The internet is full of perverts, rapists, and con-artists. FUD, Families United against Data, aims to lobby congress and educate about the dangers of using the internet. Our schedule is listed below:

Washington, DC: Talk with Al Gore, inventor of the Internet.

Minneapolis, MN: Speak with Gov. Jesse Ventura, wrestler-turned-idiot-politician about Minnesota's new edukation initiative - "Just Say No To Wires".

Redmond, WA: Interview with Bill Gates on the benefits of using ActiveSex, a new protocol designed to limit sexual desires online.

Austin, TX: We'll be going door to door, and toe to toe with Dell Corporation on integrating Vchip technology into the next generation of computers.

Silicon Valley, CA: An exclusive interview with Steve Jobs - we'll ask him about the iSex, a new product he plans on marketing to make online sex easier than ever.

We hope you'll join us in our fight to help secure the internet against the tyranny of sex, and promote freedom and dignity for all.
- FUD.

--

Re:A warning for concerned parents.

[MassacrE]

• Washington, DC: Talk with Al Gore, inventor of the Internet.
  
  Be careful. Many people think that Gore invented the Internet, and this is simply wrong. He actually invented the electron, the Internet is just based on that tecnology
  
  
• Minneapolis, MN: Speak with Gov. Jesse Ventura, wrestler-turned-idiot-politician about Minnesota's new edukation initiative - "Just Say No To Wires".
  
  ...Which raises the question - is going wrestler-to-politician a step-up or step-down?
  
  
• Redmond, WA: Interview with Bill Gates on the benefits of using ActiveSex, a new protocol designed to limit sexual desires online.
  
  The technology is rather simple- it is based on the amounts of javascript and java applets on most porn pages. By not supporting javascript of java applets correctly, the web browser automatically crashes when going to web pages of dubious persuit. This gives a strong desire to avoid those pages via psycological conditioning (a la A Clockwork Orange)
  The Internet Explorer browser did this for years, before they realized that they could market this technology.
  
  
• Austin, TX: We'll be going door to door, and toe to toe with Dell Corporation on integrating Vchip technology into the next generation of computers.
  
  Since all computers require Windows 98, why get Dell involved at all? Just use ActiveSex technology.
  
  
• Silicon Valley, CA: An exclusive interview with Steve Jobs - we'll ask him about the iSex, a new product he plans on marketing to make online sex easier than ever.
  
  Hmmm.. "She comes in colors, everywhere..."

damn

[c0re_pump]

why do those people have to make everything so complicated... frm 7 am to 5 pm??? whats up with that?
oh well i guess theres always home to hook up onto the internet or... just go do whatever you do to have fun over there (god knows what with thos rules) probaly just look at the celeing and count dots or something.

Re:damn

[c0re_pump]

hu uh!! i know lets go get fake id's to get into the Cyber Caffe!!!

What's wrong with this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I mean, a poster above was correct when they posted that this deals more with the subject of truancy. I know that some arcades in San Diego, California, won't let children under a certain age during certain times during the day in much the same vein. It's because the kids are suppose to be in school anyways, so they shouldn't be at the Internet Cafe. The article makes no mention of the Internet being inherently bad, it just makes a small mention of the banning of viewing porn, and what's wrong with that (it is a public place after all)? What I find most interesting is this: this article is about the Philippines. Not the U.S., Europe, or Australia. The Philippines. And it found its way on /.

Re:What's wrong with this?

[Wisquatuk]

What I find most interesting is this: this article is about the Philippines. Not the U.S., Europe, or Australia. The Philippines. And it found its way on /.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.. I've seen at least one posting from someone who lives there, and I've got my score limit set relatively high, so there are most likely others from said country who're posting as well. I won't debate the merit of the article itself (except to say that I think the 'from the ... dept' byline was a bit hasty), but I think that it has brought some interesting issues up, and I don't see why the fact that it doesn't come from some recognised 'big country' makes it all that unimportant to some.

You're the one behind the console; if you look at an article and can easily decide that it has no effect on you, you don't hafta read it. The sports page in the newspaper doesn't affect me whatsoever, but that doesn't mean I write to my editor to ask it removed. I don't want Slashdot to try to decide what I want to read; the papers already try that, and they fail abysmally.

I apologise; I know this is offtopic, but I felt it needed to be said. As for the issue itself, I'm not sure what it's really about. Truancy (the story), drug dealers and stuff (another part of the story), censorship (a possible implication), or anything else. But I really do wonder (not to be cynical, just curious) why their Internet Cafes are such a truancy problem. I know that here, a call goes home to the parents immediately upon the student's first skipped class, and as a result, very few students skip regularly. Actually, very few as of last year; that policy just went into place this year now, and it would seem that the result is that I see certain regular skippers from last year actually in class these days. Wow.

In retrospect, I think the title of this thread is actually somewhat fitting. We seem to have solved our truancy problem without resorting to this kind of thing, and via a system that doesn't take too much effort to implement, or too much skill to come up with. And it doesn't involve banning certain media, either.

Sorta makes you wonder what they're really up to, doesn't it?

This isn't some horrific travesty against humanity

[lordhades]

OK, so school kids aren't allowed to go into Internet cafes around school hours due to problems with drug dealers...Is this really such a terrible thing? it seems that if kids need to use computers during these times, they could use the ones at school. If they need a computer outside of school badly enough for the two or three hours a day that the curfew and school don't overlap, get a part-time job. This isn't some human rights violation

makes me think...

[KaosDG]

It's strange. Before I got into computers (Junior Yr. High School, about 6 years ago)
I was a truant myself. Except I'd hang out in arcades, movies, comic shops and so on. THey'd all have a "no one under 18 between 8am and 3:30pm" policy or whatever. now truants are computer geeks. My, how the world changes in such a short time. programming is what made me stay in school.. (the cute chica that used to sit next to me in english class helped a little too)... now i'm about to graduate with a BS in CS (hey, i made a rhyme!) and now the computers are making kids skip school? Funny, really... Being an American born Filipino it makes me wonder if the schools over there even have computers and internet. I've never been there, and from family tales and photos it looks like it's pretty underdeveloped... At least the areas where my family is from.

It's not the pushier fault

[Jonathan Hamilton]

Well I guess it kinda is but if the government legalized certain drugs escpically cannabis. There wouldn't be that much of a problem.

heheheh...

[Jonathan Hamilton]

Your funny, their are no/little computers in Public Schools. Espically in a country like this. Here in America my school only has 10 computers that students can use at any time. Their are some old ps/2 for typing class etc, however 1,600 students goto my school.

Re:heheheh...

[lordhades]

Although I don't know about Phillipino schools first hand, I would think that in a community chock full of internet cafes the schools would have at least moderate internet connectivity. It's unfortunate that your American public school was under-connected; mine wasn't, and it's been my experience that most aren't.
But that's all beside the point; the curfew isn't about the man keeping kids away from technology; it's about kids needing to be in school during school. the fact that this curfew is targeted at internet cafes is irrelevant; it could just as easily have been video arcades...but that wouldn't have shown up on /. (As has been pointed out by other posters.)

Re:heheheh...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's sad considering I have around 15 machines in this room I'm in. This room isn't at my place of employment, it's at my house. Oh well, I don't think schools should have any computers myself. They don't hire anyone competent enough to truly teach computer skills, not this lame Word/Excel/whatever useless bullshit, that's not education. Microsoft has no place in education.

Re:heheheh...

[treke]

Word and Excel are "useless bullshit"? They are products that work for the most part. Microsoft my not make the best product in the world, but the fact of the matter is that they are popular. What would you prefer be taught? Maybe the problem isn't teaching someone to use the microsoft software, but teaching them only to use the microsoft software. Schools should expand computer eductation to teach systems like Linux/Unix, but most people don't care about that. They want to be able to check email and type papers. Just my 2 cents

Re:heheheh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Jonathan said...
Your funny, their are no/little computers in Public Schools. Espically in a country like this. Here in America my school only has 10 computers that students can use at any time. Their are some old ps/2 for typing class etc, however 1,600 students goto my school.

So, um, do you leave school in the middle of the day to use off-site computers? If not, what's the big deal about the local shops not making them accessable to school age kids, anyway? If so, get your butt back in school :-)

"When kids using computers in public places during school hours is illegal, only truants would be using them, anyway."

and if they don't comply...

[/]

maybe they'll enforce the death penalty they've recently been trying to pass for minors. The Philippines is really a scary place when it comes to such things. One of the difinitive cruel&unusual punishment cases in US constitutional law came out of the Philippines (Weems v. US: a man charged with forgery was sentenced to twenty years of hard labor and perpetual surveilance and curtailment of other rights). This is the same place where a man was executed even though the President issued a last-minute reprieve, because the phone lines were busy and his call couldn't go through.

a deep misconception about internet access

[Anonymous Coward]

People in the US and Europe tend to forget that internet access and access to *free* information is a luxury in many Asian countries.

While I have never been the the Philippines, I can bet that those kids who were banned access have very little access to the net. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the police have decided to crack down on "internet access" as opposed to TV or movie access during school hours.

Let's see....on the net, you can get free access to political criticism, such as these posts?

What I find interesting is how easily people fall for these pathetic excuses:

1) We are trying to prevent children from getting bad ideas and wasting their time during school hours. What's wrong with that?

2) We are trying to prevent disorder among children and people. They should be studying or working anyway. What's wrong with that?

3) We are trying to prevent people from getting into illegal politics and thinking of dangerous ideas. What's wrong with preventing crime?

There you go. If you agree with any of the above, you need to think deeply. Or join the local law enforcement.

Re:a deep misconception about internet access

[Ded Bob]

Perhaps you should ask yourself why the police have decided to crack down on "internet access" as opposed to TV or movie access during school hours.

Maybe they are cracking down on all of the above. The great Internet is sensational enough to be news.

To answer your questions:

1) I pay tax money (at least in the U.S. :)) to have children go to school. I don't like to see waste.

2) If I paid for the opportunity for someone to get education, I would certainly hope they do. If they don't even try, why should they expect unemployment compensation later in life?

3) Are you talking about politics or the drugs? I think they should crack down on the drugs.

There you go. If you agree with any of the above, you need to think deeply. Or join the local law enforcement.

I think you need to go back and think about it more deeply.

Re:a deep misconception about internet access

[dufke]

>2) If I paid for the opportunity for someone to get education, I would certainly hope they do. If they don't even try, why should they expect unemployment compensation later in life?

What about if the education they are getting is Shit(tm)? Like it is in many parts of the world... (at least the one's i have been to)

dufke


________________________________________________ ___________

Re:a deep misconception about internet access

[Chandon Seldon]

Public Education does, and will always, crappy ass waste of money. As soon as a government forms a monopoly on something, the quality of that something goes straight downhill.

Legally requiring kids to go to school is also bullshit, especially after they can read/wright/and "do math".

Privatize Public Schools!

Note: You're right, the education is Shit(TM).

Re:a deep misconception about internet access

[Langdon]

Ok - you did admit you have never been here.

1) They can waste their time in school too. The Tagbilaran police merely inform your parents if kids are caught skipping school for IRC. Our schools are pretty liberal - most of their problems stem from lack of resources, not censorship.

2) Note that the curfew is from 7AM to 5PM. Whatever you do outside those hours is your concern. This means you can hit IRC after school and skip homework, *if your parents let you*.

3) We get plenty of politics and dangerous ideas in school. Press freedom is important here. (Witness the rallies and headlines here - we're currently fighting for our right to criticize the government...)

That being said - you're thinking of China, perhaps, or Singapore. Funny how all those Orientals all look alike, right?

Re:a deep misconception about internet access

[dufke]

>Public Education does, and will always, crappy ass waste of money

Well, that was not neccesarily my point. I was talking about the general concept of teaching, as it is done in schools. (Devoid of inspiration/interest.)

As a matter of fact, the public schools i have gone to were, as far as teaching goes better than private ones. But my comparison on that issue is invalid anyway, since the private schools I have seen where American, and the public were Swedish... The rumors i have heard of American public school seem to point in the direction you are indicating.

Schools should be a legal requirement, but they need to change a lot!!!

dufke
________________________________________________ ___________

Huh???

[gater]

I guess if some third world country comes up with what is basically an add-on to a truancy law, then they must be f*cked up liberals. It's common sense people!...would you want your minor kid hanging out at an internet cafe instead of going to school?

Re:Huh???

[JM_the_Great]

Actually, If it's like here (in the Good Old USA), you could probably learn more from the Internet then Schools.

That's my 1/50 of $1.00 US
JM

Slashdot's international focus

[Anonymous Coward]

It's interesting to see how /. has been focusing on issues beyond the US. This is a very refreshing change from many news and tech. sites. Recently there have been stories on Turkey, Germany, the Philippines, etc.

I want to commend /. on this approach. Excellent range of coverage.

It makes people see beyond their pathetic local TV coverage about the stupid high-school basketball team or car chase or prevention of scientific ideas and understand what's going on in the rest of the world.

I only wish more people from other countries would post. :)

Re:Slashdot's international focus

[Hobbex]

Yeah, its so great that we are point fingers and screaming censorship and oppression because a city in a democratic country won't let kids go to Internet cafes during school hours. Goes to show that America has finally matured in it's attitude to other countries and cultures!

-
/. is like a steer's horns, a point here, a point there and a lot of bull in between.

Re:Slashdot's international focus

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a brilliant and insightful man. I'm sure you'd applaud loudly if the local cops started rounding up your kids for hanging out at the local Starbucks.

Does it even occur to you as to why police effort is being focused on kids hanging out in cafes, in a nation known for record crime and corruption problems? Did you stop to think - Gosh, don't they have something else to do? Could they be doing this to crack down on freedom?

I'm sure Nazis would have loved to have loyal citizenry who supported their "law and order" drive to inculcate discipline among school children. Sheep always come in handy.

Re:Slashdot's international focus

[Thomas Miconi]

Total agreement.

Potential problem : this might lead to some endless "my-country-does-it-better-than-yours" flamebait, and more precisely a great deal of America-Bashing (which is almost as popular a sport in continental Europe as M$-Bashing is among Linux lovers - wonder why :o)

I don't even want to think about pseudo-political debates where nobody would understand what the other means ("socialist" or "liberal" have very different meaning on either side of the ocean).

I know this. I have even done it - foolish me :o)

All in all, is /. (or any other open forum) ready for the big culture shock ? And wouldn't this "shock" mean a mere swallowing (minor cultures/languages being swallowed by the Big Bad Dumbing Yankees, one world, one culture, one language - a deep and recurrent fear among many European countries)?

Thomas , rather French indeed.

Re:Slashdot's international focus

[Anonymous Coward]

The majority of Americans do not want to create a common, universal culture/language, unfortunately they are to comfortable to care. The liberal airheads and the people running the media are driving this movement. The universal culture they are pushing through the media has nothing in common with the old American culture. It is a sick culture of their creation, guaranteed to sap the greatness out of any nation. The older Europeans are wise to resist, but I fear the younger generation will succumb to this pernicious influence.

Somebody got their priorities straight

[Nexus7]

If we assume that there is really drug-pushing going on in these cafes, and kids are skipping school to hang out there, then this is a good idea.

It is good to see a country accepting the responsibility for its children. Instead of throwing their hands up and getting them out of their hands with vouchers or other such garbage.

The wacko libertarian racist viewpoint has been expressed elsewhere in this thread though, as you would expect from the usual /. suspects.

Re:Somebody got their priorities straight

[Stonehand]

So, why not:

* Have the usual anti-truancy regulations, that aren't location-specific. If they have those, and presumably they do, then that should cover 'net cafes, as well. Truancy in a 'net cafe is still truancy.

* If these 'net cafes are *really* dens of iniquity, then they should be able to crack down on 'em -- given that there aren't that many, according to the article; and it would seem likely that the business owners would be at least somewhat liable.

The justification that they give is... odd. If pushers go to the schools, will they evict the pushers or the students?

Re:Somebody got their priorities straight

[Anonymous Coward]

If we assume that there is really drug-pushing going on in these cafes, and kids are skipping school to hang out there, then this is a good idea.

If drug-pushing is the enemy, why not go after drug-pushing? It's not as though Internet cafes and drugs are inextricably linked; drug dealers will always find places to do business. This is a poorly thought-out way of going after drug dealers and truants, to say the least, and I strongly suspect that although the intent may not have been to crack down on 'net usage, the fact that this is the 'net and not, say, a public library, probably has a lot to do with the fact that this got passed - it's a lot easier to crack down on new and poorly understood things.

It is good to see a country accepting the responsibility for its children. Instead of throwing their hands up and getting them out of their hands with vouchers or other such garbage.

Children are the responsibility of their parents, not the government. At least that's what a great many people around the world have traditionally believed; you seem to disagree. The problem with handing it off to the government is that it encourages parents not to exercise proper responsibility; it inculcates the idea that everything requiring thought and effort is somebody else's duty, including raising your children.

The wacko libertarian racist viewpoint has been expressed elsewhere in this thread though, as you would expect from the usual /. suspects.

When it comes to slander and painting people with a broad brush, you've got everyone else beat by a country mile, I think.

The Phillipines has grown up

[Tihstae]

The story is nothing to worry about as it is a truancy issue and not one of Internet censorship.

The point that seems to missing here is how much the Phillipines has matured. 5 years ago, an average citizen could not possibly use the Internet. Even now, outside of large cities, most homes don't have a telephone. In rural areas, one public cellular is often shared by the entire community.

It is very nice to see that the Phillipines is embracing technology. Maybe this (along with politcal reforms which seem to be coming slowly) will help the Phillipines out of a very bad economic situation.

you oughta add US to those countries as well...

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry for this stream of gibberish: In US you have just as much dumb people being led by media as in any other country... stop thinking you are elite.. If US is so great why cut one of the only 'reliable sources of information' aka the net from them (well they did cut the major satelite feedback)... how are US helping them? look at media... look at ZD news... you call it fud, look at goverment, you call it Propaganda.. its everywhere... was I informed iraq was bombed during bombing Serbia? not until I forced to watch a french show. Please turn your tv and look at 90% of news.. its local only.. I dont care about such minute things like neighbour killed.. I worry about countries, their internal politics, yet most news dont bother, they will say that little Timmy almost fell into a (well|pipe|sewage).. ALL goverments want their people do be dumb.. I am in Canada, and the amount of ppl that are dumb (ie: Freud would be cool if he hadnt 'invented' the atom bomb). There is only a certain percantage that is supposed to be smart.. those are the ones lucky, with rich parents, contacts, or with deep passion into knowledge.. the rest are hard labour mass which makes everything do, so that the few get more than the rest.. It is happening everywhere.. THe gap between middle class and low class is smaller, while the high class gets higher... Read the k12 (new education postulate)... they say ppl are to be 'customers'... able to read and work and buy... thats all.. read ads and tv guides.. If everyone was a scientist, if money were evenly distributed, if everyone had a passion for something else than boredom... and here is another problem I have.. I havent seen a smart person bored yet once... take away tv from average american and he wont know what else to do.. please.. 10h/day average... and then you have Gov't which has face to say that 2h/day+ on net (which requires to be more active than while watching tv) means you are addicted.. reasoning? they want you to watch tv, brainless information feed.. not the net where you can get into things such as slashdot, contribute source code.. and.. Even look at the claim that computers are hard.. No they are not... they never been taught properly.. only as advanced typewritter... sheesh... I watched once tv show, they bitched that if Einstain didnt play a guitar he was worthless to the humanity... joke or not this is not funny.. the worst that it was a show for kids... what are we teaching our kids? cool = chaotic = destructive = do whateva??? no wander later we will have problems... Please... show me a country with a perfect goverment and I'll show you how it fails.. --- this covers my Conspiracy Theories # 44, 56, and #87..

Re:you oughta add US to those countries as well...

[*DogShu*]

well not all americans are that dumb.

a couple of them invented slashdot didn't they?

you oughta add US to those countries as well...

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry for this stream of gibberish:

In US you have just as much dumb people being led
by media as in any other country...

stop thinking you are elite..

If US is so great why cut one of the only 'reliable sources of information' aka the net from them (well they did cut the major satelite feedback)... how are US helping them?

look at media... look at ZD news... you call it fud, look at goverment, you call it Propaganda..

its everywhere... was I informed iraq was bombed during bombing Serbia? not until I forced to watch a french show.

Please turn your tv and look at 90% of news.. its local only.. I dont care about such minute things like neighbour killed.. I worry about countries, their internal politics, yet most news dont bother, they will say that little Timmy almost fell into a (well|pipe|sewage)..

ALL goverments want their people do be dumb.. I am in Canada, and the amount of ppl that are dumb (ie: Freud would be cool if he hadnt 'invented' the atom bomb). There is only a certain percantage that is supposed to be smart.. those are the ones lucky, with rich parents, contacts, or with deep passion into knowledge.. the rest are hard labour mass which makes everything do, so that the few get more than the rest..

It is happening everywhere.. THe gap between middle class and low class is smaller, while the high class gets higher...

Read the k12 (new education postulate)... they say ppl are to be 'customers'... able to read and work and buy... thats all.. read ads and tv guides.. If everyone was a scientist, if money were evenly distributed, if everyone had a passion for something else than boredom...

and here is another problem I have.. I havent seen a smart person bored yet once... take away tv from average american and he wont know what else to do.. please.. 10h/day average... and then you have Gov't which has face to say that 2h/day+ on net (which requires to be more active than while watching tv) means you are addicted.. reasoning?

they want you to watch tv, brainless information feed.. not the net where you can get into things such as slashdot, contribute source code.. and..

Even look at the claim that computers are hard..
No they are not... they never been taught properly.. only as advanced typewritter... sheesh...

I watched once tv show, they bitched that if Einstain didnt play a guitar he was worthless to the humanity... joke or not this is not funny.. the worst that it was a show for kids... what are we teaching our kids? cool = chaotic = destructive = do whateva??? no wander later we will have problems...

Please... show me a country with a perfect goverment and I'll show you how it fails..


---

this covers my Conspiracy Theories # 44, 56, and #87..

You think THAT's bad...

[Marvin_OScribbley]

Probably slightly off topic, but... talk about strict...

Tonga law prohibits any person from appearing in a public without a shirt.

(reference: Kingdom of Tonga - Facts)

Re:You think THAT's bad...

[Lemmy Caution]

American law prohibits half of its people from appearing in public without a shirt.

Re:You think THAT's bad...

[swanky]

Carmel CA: No ice cream eating in sidewalks (not too sure on this) No high-heels allowed People...we've got it all wrong...the internet is THE drug =)

Re:You think THAT's bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's only state law, not the whole country.
For example, in Austin Texas it is permitted,
and not all that uncommon, for women to go topless.

I agree.....

[Jonathan Hamilton]

I have 5 Machines at home that combined are probably faster then every computer at school that
stundents are allowed to use.

Re:I've learned more on /. than 12 years on Public

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you are either brain dead or slept through school.

Which is it?

Re:This isn't some horrific travesty against human

[*DogShu*]

I seriously doubt that drug dealers are that big a problem at internet cafes... and if they are... it doesn't matter anyway because they'll just follow their customers to their next hang-out spot.

To me this really seems to be an excuse for censorship.

where else do drug users hang out?

[DAVEO]

daveo thinks that if they will not allow this in cafes because they are afraid of drug users, then they should shut down every bar in the country. the hypocracy!

Re:This isn't some horrific travesty against human

[lordhades]

Possibly if there was a total ban on kids going into internet cafes, I would see your point, but as it stands, it's like saying that the library is censoring access to books because it closes at the end of the day.

Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing...

[DukeTuring]

First of all, I'd like to wish that more people read the article first before spewing out their vitriolic at a third world country they know very little about...

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm a from that country... and I'd like to note a few things:

• It's a city ordinance of Tagbilaran city, a small city in the Visayas region: IT does not apply to the entire country.

• As a few already noted, it's more about controlling truancy rather than restricting Internet access (if you read more carefully, there's an exception to the ordinance for students if they have the teacher's permission). So it's not about an anti-internet access per se, but more about protecting children's welfare.

• As for the anti-porn restriction, I can understand where that's coming from : the Philippines has a strong Catholic legacy. We tend to be more prudish/conservative in terms of what we say we believe (not necessarily in what we do, however ;^))

• We are a third world that came out of twenty-plus-years of dictatorship (1973-1986) with very strong feelings for democracy and liberty. While we do have problems (and boy, do we have problems!), our government's attitude toward the Internet has been, in general, positive or at least neutral -- which is why, although its not as widespread as anyone here in the Philippines would like, Internet access is, at least, flourishing...

Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing...

[KlomDark]

Uh, how does 13 years (1973-1986) equal "twenty-plus years"??? :)

Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing...

[Langdon]

Well, we usually count from when Marcos came to power (1964?) so it's twenty-plus years. He declared martial law instead of allowing his second 4-year term to expire ('cause he couldn't run for a third term, due to the then-existing Constitution).

He repealed the 1935 Constitution, wrote up a fresh one, and held power until 1986.

Can't remember some of the dates, cause it's hard to remember details when you're a little kid and your family is on the run...

Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing...

[drwiii]

Uh, how does 13 years (1973-1986) equal "twenty-plus years"??? :)

20 plus -7 equals 13. (:

Technology in the Third World

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I'm a little slow. Can someone explain to me why this is such an affront to civil rights? I understand the concerns about censorship and cutting off access to information (I do find it odd that they are targeting Internet cafes specifically), but the story seems to be blown all out of proportion. After all, Tagbilaran City has a population of only 50,000 people and is on the tenth largest island of the Philippines, i.e., hardly representative of the entire country. (And what makes everyone think that the government is anti-democratic? It's not like martial law has been declared again. Yet.) Moreover, the initial post is a little misleading: this isn't a national ordinance, decreed by the Philippine government. It's more like the local sherriff decided this would be a good idea.

I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this was happening in any small town in the U.S.

What is interesting is that the Philippines will probably be a good illustration of whether technology can solve all our ills, or if it merely causes more problems. I find it kind of strange that technology such as cel phones, cable TV, and Internet access are everywhere in the Philippines, even in somewhat underdeveloped regions, and yet poverty is so rampant, and a lot of basic infrastructure like roads aren't very well implemented. The average Filipino would have to spend practically an entire year's salary to buy a computer, even one of those really cheap ones. My cousins who live in a pretty rural region (the only way to get there is by a 12 hour bus ride) have a Pentium II, and yet they don't have hot running water, and they still wash clothes in the river.

Re:Technology in the Third World

[Scudsucker]

Can someone explain to me why this is such an affront to civil rights?

Because you are punishing and restricting one group of people for the actions of another. Instead of trying to catch the drug dealers, they kick out all the kids.

What is interesting is that the Philippines will probably be a good illustration of whether technology can solve all our ills, or if it merely causes more problems.

Name me one person who has claimed that we can. Simply throwing technology or money at a problem without any thought to execution is going to fail.

I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this was happening in any small town in the U.S.

And I certainly hope that people will raise hell about it. Even if this is only one small town in the Philipines, other cities or the government might impliment it if people don't stand up for themselves.

Re:Technology in the Third World

[Langdon]

>Because you are punishing and restricting one group of people for the actions of another. Instead of trying to catch the drug dealers, they kick
>out all the kids.

Hello? they're kicking out the kids from 7AM to 5PM - school time. After school, they can stay all night if their parents let 'em.

>And I certainly hope that people will raise hell about it. Even if this is only one small town in the Philipines, other cities or the government might
>impliment it if people don't stand up for themselves.

This isn't that different from preventing minors from entering videogame arcades during school hours. Come on, you're so afraid of the Man, everything must be a "liberty or death" issue with you people.

Only middle-class and upper-class kids can afford Internet cafes. Most people don't or can't use computers over here. Even if Internet news was censored, you'd be cutting off news to a small percentage of kids who aren't that interested in current affairs, anyway.

Be more concerned that the Philippine government is using strongarm tactics to push local papers to do its bidding. They're not backing down, but its gonna be close. Internet freedom is a non-issue right now - because the Internet reaches too few of our people to make a difference.

And besides, what does access to the Internet mean to a normal Pinoy kid? IRC and mtvasia.com. Hardly the liberating stuff you people seem to think we need.

Re:Technology in the Third World

[Scudsucker]

Hello? they're kicking out the kids from 7AM to 5PM - school time. After school, they can stay all night if their parents let 'em.

The point is that they are specifically targeting 'net cafe's and not truancy in general. So the kids can't browse the net at 3 pm but they can go to the bowling alley?

And besides, what does access to the Internet mean to a normal Pinoy kid? IRC and mtvasia.com. Hardly the liberating stuff you people seem to think we need.

Wether or not they do is irrelevant. The important thing is that they can. Much like 18 year olds being able to vote in the US although they have some of the worst turnouts.

Re:Technology in the Third World

[Langdon]

>The point is that they are specifically targeting 'net cafe's and not truancy in general. So the kids can't browse the
>net at 3 pm but they can go to the bowling alley?

Well, our town (in the Philippines) also has a similar ordinance for videogame arcades. I'd think this was just an extension of that ordinance.

Besides, what's the difference between 3 PM and 5 PM? Make 'em actually stay in school for two more hours.

>Wether or not they do is irrelevant. The important thing is that they can. Much like 18 year olds being able to vote in
>the US although they have some of the worst turnouts.

All right - I'll admit that was a bit vague. I was trying to point out that Internet cafes are still too expensive for the "average" Pinoy child (who, last I looked, was still living below the poverty line). This will only affect the small fraction of Pinoy kids who can afford Net cafes.

Also - this is only targeted at elementary and High school students - 17 years old, maximum. Once you graduate high school, you're an adult. that's usually when you turn 17 or 18.

New Moderation Tag: Nutso

[BooRadley]

How about one labelled "Insane" that doesn't change the point count? :)

That way we don't have to read half-way through the post before we realize someone's a raving lunatic.

Re:New Moderation Tag: Nutso

[Anonymous Coward]

woohoo... just for me.... I fell flattered... and I do agree.. as well as ability to just read funny/nutso posts.... that is all I would do.. :D

Close the Supermarkets, Roads, Bus Stations

[glomph]

All of these harbor drug traders and other criminals, so they are clearly incubators of trouble.
Ban milk & bread sales, too.
The Bad Guys gain vital sustenance from this as well.

Curfew on Grocery Stores

[Eric Smith]

The Philippine government has observed that grocery stores are among the most popular places for drug pushers and users to buy groceries, so they are imposing a curfew on grocery stores for minors.

Underwhelmed

[Humility]

I'm a little underwhelmed by the perceived attack on the natural rights of the Phillipine school children.

Point the first: These kids are supposed to be in school, going to school, or coming home from school, during the hours of the ban. I know we all agree that The Internet Is A Wonderful Thing, but so is a structured and regular education. That's part of how we in America invented the Internet in the first place-- a large body of mandatorily educated adults.

When someone can make a good demonstration that a child sitting unsupervised on the Internet for eight hours a day will be more aptly prepared for the complexities of adult life, I'll rethink my position.

I smell sacred cow-burger because this involves the Internet.

Point the second: This is not entirely different from passing laws to keep your kid out of video arcades during the day.

Point the Third: We are talking about children, here. It is accepted legal policy (and just plain good sense) that children by their natures are not the most qualified individuals to plot the courses of their own lives. We can quibble about statistical outliers, special circumstances, and whether the cutoff should be 14, 16, 18, or 21 years, but the sense of it remains.

Therefore, children do not have the same spectrum of rights as adults. Among other things, they are told to get their kiesters in school, not to drink, not to do drugs, not to gamble, not to drive automobiles, and so forth.

When they become adults, their status and spectrum of rights change accordingly.

Point the Fourth: The only way this law could be improved is to split the fine between the legal gaurdians (to keep the parents' responsibilities uppermost in their minds) and the shopkeepers (to prevent them from enticing the kids with impunity.) That, and maybe apply the same fines (if they are not already) to comic book shops, video arcades, movie theaters, and wherever else Philippine kids spent their truancy hours, these days.

Re:Underwhelmed

[Langdon]

> I smell sacred cow-burger because this involves the Internet.

True. I do too.

> Point the second: This is not entirely different from passing laws to keep your kid out of video arcades during the day.

They probably have one of those too. This is just an extension of the video arcade curfew ordinances, I think.

>Point the Fourth: The only way this law could be improved is to split the fine between the legal gaurdians (to keep the parents' responsibilities
>uppermost in their minds) and the shopkeepers (to prevent them from enticing the kids with impunity.) That, and maybe apply the same fines (if
>they are not already) to comic book shops, video arcades, movie theaters, and wherever else Philippine kids spent their truancy hours, these
>days.

If it's like the videogame ordinances we have here, there isn't any fine. They just call up your parents and turn you over. (kids can't pay fines, they barely have enough for lunch money).

Filipino parents aren't like American parents. They generally are very strict with regards to education... getting all your kids through college is the dream of almost all Pinoy parents I know, no matter where they come from.

On dumbness

[harmonica]

You (and others) seem to have misunderstood the term 'dumb' as I used it.

I was referring to the often-heard prejudice that people under the rule of a dictatorship, which are often poor countries as well, must be dumb because they don't organize against it, protest and oust their leaders.

This is nonsense as they must fear for their lives / freedom if they do.

Re:On dumbness

[Langdon]

Well, I don't think it applies here. We fought off a dictatorship 13 years ago, and the memories are still fresh. (I know mine are. :)

If you want proof, read the current headlines here. (Yeah, start with the Philippine Daily Inquirer, if you want). We know how to defend our press freedom, and if the media ever knuckles under, we still have other methods.

Hell, we've got lots of people who still remember how to fire an AK-47 around...

CNN

[harmonica]

CNN treated information as it came from NATO headquarters 'with care', they learnt from the Gulf war. It wasn't presented as facts, only as reports from one side. And they interviewed Yugoslav officials all the time, in world news, in panels of Larry King live etc. CNN is too US-specific to be a real worldwide news station, but you must be more careful if you try to brand them as the pushing-for-war evil media giants.

not a big deal

[Supergrass]

I think this is a reasonable measure to combat truancy. (which is the real aim of it, despite the spin put on it by /. and some posters) The law seems to be specifically geared towards children who should be in school, and shouldn't really impact anybody else. (witness the number of qualifying clauses: children under 18, during school hours, unless going there for a class, unless accompanied by a parent, etc. etc. -- these all provide 'outs' for kids' legitimate use during school hours)

We should be more worried about laws like those being passed in Australia and elsewhere, than something that seems reasonable and narrow in focus like this...

Re:Slashdot's international focus (blech)

[Langdon]

Did you actually read the article?

This is an instance of a local police chief doing his job for a change... they round up kids who aren't in school, and turn 'em over to their parents.

"Police effort"? An small-city ordinance probably written by a cop who probably has a kid who does skip school for IRC is suddenly national policy?

Jeez. Cafes aren't being censored. Hell, they don't need to use to Internet to get all the porn they want - our movie industry turns out nothing but X-rated flicks. which any kid can rent at the corner video store. (besides, we've got better looking babes/hunks than you do. So there. :)

The situation here, halfway across the world from your comfortable country, isn't as dire as it seems.

I meant average...

[Anonymous Coward]

not all americans are in middle class or lower.. there is always Bill Gates... not all Mexicans are poor.. Some are cartels.. ps: I know average is bad... if I walk my dog we on average have 3 legs...

its not being dumb... wrong word used...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here I would call it disorganized, or too scared.. poeple do have a choice what to do in their life... Most choose to live a peacfull life.. only when pushed to extremes/opportunity would a person do something... extremes to different people might different thing.. to one it might be infringing upon rights (ie: free speech) to others it might be famility being killed. Opportunity is the other one... a chance of a gain with little loss.. this is what politicians often do, with someones elses lives they better themselves in the name of bettering everyone.. thats how MOST wars start[ed].. -- raving lunatic...

Good measures, if part of a wider policy

[aUser]

The Philippines are a developing country and must focus on developing their human resources to the level that will allow them to participate fully in mainstream economic activity. Therefore, I am happy to see that they are pushing through measures for keeping children in schools.

However, in addition to these measures to keep children from shirking classes, we must take into consideration what Philippine law enactment and enforcement agencies have done to make sure that:
(1) a decent proportion of national income is invested in education.
(2) children, regardless of the financial background, are offered sufficient opportunities to quality education.

The more it is clear that the Philippine government means business, in dealing with the education of the children, the more easily people will accept this kind of restrictions in their freedom and the freedom of their children, in order for them to stand a better chance in their lives.

Quite a lot of people consider freedom to be a goal in itself. I think, however, that freedom must be weighed against the other goals that the community may have, including the goal to achieve better living standards for the next generation.

From the wealthy suburbs of middle-class America, people may take a dim look on restrictions on personal freedom, but I am sure that the Phillipinos, given their relatively low level of income, can be convinced to throw part of it in the balance.

Re:Good measures, if part of a wider policy

[Langdon]

You sound pretty ok, at first. And no, it isn't part of a wider policy. It's something that the local PTA would dream up and push the police chief to implement.

It's the last paragraph that kinda sounds somewhat different.

> From the wealthy suburbs of middle-class America, people may take a dim look on restrictions on personal
> freedom, but I am sure that the Phillipinos, given their relatively low level of income, can be convinced to throw part
> of it in the balance.

Ok. So since we're poor, it's ok to give up some of our personal freedom, just to achieve "better living standards"?

No, thank you. That's been tried before. Hey, for all I know, it may work (in other Asian countries, even) but we Pinoys have been exposed too long to American ideology. You know, every individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of pogi points. :)

Re:This isn't some horrific travesty against human

[C.Lee]

>I seriously doubt that drug dealers are that big a problem at >internet cafes... and if they are... it doesn't matter anyway because >they'll just follow their customers to their next hang-out spot.

Want to bet? Drug dealers are most likely to find the brain-dead types who want to try the lastest stuff at internet cafes if 90% of the posts bitching about the curfew are any indication of the stupidity of the script-kiddies that hang out at these places.

As for the drug dealers following when people leave, just have the cops follow them when they leave...

It's true, the Internet is drug-pushers' Heaven

[Q*bert]

Damn, they're on to me! Every day I come to this site to get my Slashdot fix . . . ooh yeah. Then I download a big tarball of KDE source . . . that shit is raw! I compile it, roll it into RPMs, and then get it into my system. I can't get started in the morning without my open-source software fix. I even carry a laptop with me so I'll never be without a compiler, no matter where I go.

Yes, it's true: I'm a junkie, and the Internet is my hook-up. Damn them all for finding out the truth!

Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product