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Is Qwest's ISP Deal Really Worth the Hassle?
"My husband and I were paying $21.95/mo for our dialup access. We were also paying more than the difference - $3 - in long distance each month while definately using less than 250 minutes. So we thought, "Hey, this sounds like a good deal. Let's go for it." So we did. After attempting to sign up and being told there was some sort of problem with our phone company and that we'd have to call the 1-800 number to set up our account, the wierdness started. We never called the 1-800 number, but a week or so later, we got a call from MCI (our old long distance carrier) asking if we wanted to switch back - or why we switched in the first place. The poor telemarketer basically hung up when my huband told them we were getting a *far* better deal - they couldn't compete. So we figured, 'Hey, the changeover must have happened. Cool, I wonder when our Inernet Account will be active.' However, we didn't get any sort of confirmation from Qwest for another week or more, and only then after they had sent us 2 copies of a CD containing netscape (which I, naturally, thought was extraneous since I already had Netscape installed on all of our linux boxes). My husband finally sat down this past weekend with one of these CDs, and read through the info packet - the requirements of Win95/98 are apparently set stone. You have to install *their* version of Netscape in order to even *register* for their Internet service. You cannot get your account open unless you use their software that is either imbedded in, or integrally tied to, the copy of Netscape they send you. Which only runs on Win95/98 (according to them - not even NT!).
We tried everything we could to get it working under Linux - no go. My husband called Qwest, and they said the only way to activate your account is via *their* software. Which is Microsoft-centric. Which is not something I'm sure I want to deal with. Yes, we have dual-boot systems, but Win95 doesn't seem to work well on my husband's machine, the only one other than the server, which is linux-only, with a modem. We have yet to move a modem to our third machine (mine) and trying to boot to windows to do it that way. Though I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the effort. What if they've got some funky setup where we can't get all the information we need to be able to set it up in Linux? Then we're pretty much hosed. Are all 'large-scale' ISPs this way? I know Mindspring - while not actively *supporting* Linux - does have many linux-using customers who don't have WinX around to initialize their account. I know there are Linux users using AT&T and AOL. Can you get those accounts without having to go through a WinX middle-OS? Has anyone else had any experiences with Qwest, or know of any work-around to get your account set up? We're already rather close to cancelling the whole deal - but the price just seems too good to be true for what you get. I suppose it is - considering you have to sell your soul to Microsoft just to sign up. "
Is it just me or do some of you find the practice of requiring a specific Operating System to access the Internet? If Qwest is really making this a hard and fast requirement, then they should point this fact out to potential customers especially since the deal forces you to change your Long Distance carrier as well. I wonder how many other unsuspecting folks have been caught by this.
Use this information wisely, and please don't go researching phone numbers, do you remember what you did to the poor woman at Unisys? Keep the comments rational, and don't overreact just yet, you don't know all the information. Maybe a rational query of Qwest will turn it up.
Anyway, Qwest's feedback page.
Regards,
Basically it works like this, the CD that is sent out by sales includes a product code that keeps your billing in order as well as creates your login. This can also be done by calling the support line, NOT sales. We had the ability to create the account while the customer was on the phone AND give them the mail, DNS and dialer settings. The hitch is that the required connection type is PAP, not PPP. The Linux users that I spoke with could not get a PAP login to work, which is the way Dial Up Networking in Win95/98 will connect. So this Qwest deal is fine, the trick is knowing when to call tech support.
And a further extension of the "OS Discrimination" is that roughly 85-90% of users are using Windows (3.x, 95, 98, 2000) or Mac OS. These systems are also the ones taught in school (K-12 and beginning college courses). The problem with getting an ISP to fully support Linux all lies in the training. Most ISPs can provide general settings, but not troubleshoot specific problems. One would see much the same if they were using OS/2 or BeOS. The added cost to train individuals in these systems is far greater than the benefits, because there is more to a PPP connection than a dialer, the rep needs to understand the underlying OS in order to make "tweaks" that will allow support for some modem strings, and general error code checks.
I know that this is going to draw flames, but what should a Windows user expect these days?
The people who set these kinds of policies are costing their companies money and should be fired. Mac users, in particular, form a significant share of the home market.
Keeping the setup procedure standard would 1/ reduce development costs (why customize the browser?) 2/ reduce support costs (users who know their way around a standard installation wouldn't have to call for help), 3/ increase revenue (10% is actually a whole lot of revenue when you figure their infrastructure costs are more-or-less fixed - most of the 10% would be straight profit).
Nobody is saying their customer service has to support every OS in the world, but making it easier for anybody to connect (with any operating system) is good business.
I get really annoyed when Dilbertesque executives display their incompetance so clearly.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
The problem is that they are supporting operating systems instead of communications standards. I don't want my ISP to support my OS; I want them to support TCP/IP. If they even ask what OS I'm running, then something is terribly wrong with them.
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Have a Sloppy day!
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
>Not only is this a reinforcement of the Microsoft monopoly (are they paying ISPs to do this?)
MSFT has made several significant investments and "strategic partnerships" with Qwest, so...basically, yes.
Jeff
Take it from someone who *knows* Qwest; NOTHING is worth doing business with them. They can't even do PRI's properly, much less an ISP.
I just moved out of state. And out of the range of my original ISP. (They don't service this area.) On top of that, where I moved to has exactly *three* NXX exchanges local. (THANK YOU BELL ATLANTIC, YOU WORTHLESS BASTARDS.) And an old AT&T 4ESS switch formerly owned by Bell of Pennsylvania. Well, I wasn't about to pay $.12/min for 800# access (it costs most ISPs upwards of $.155/min for 800# calls! Not you; THEM!) and I wanted to keep with them.
The solution? I got a local dialup (the only ISP in the *state* that serves my NPA/NXX local) till I move and get my PRIs. I made arrangements with my ISP to prepay for my email for the next year, and they're letting me keep my webpages there too. I got a local dialup account, with the intent of cancelling in about 3 months, and I'm all set.
And if all else fails, remember, some of the national people will work with anything. Afterall, it's just ppp. If you can setup your account on the phone, assume you can connect with Linux. PPP is PPP is PPP. All that you need is your authentication method (plaintext, PAP, CHAP, PAP+CHAP, CID+CHAP, etc. (At home, I had a CID+PAP setup.)) your username, your password, your dns servers, any weird options like gateway and such, and you're good to go!
Good luck.
-RISCy Business | Rabid unix guy, networking guru
your company here.
shelby != ford
This is unfortunate, but it's a support issue. AOL, AT&T and Qwest have all found that the more platforms you support, the more you have to spend on technical support. Which means they take a long hard look at the market, and decide they can live without the ~10% of home users who are not using an MS operating system. My mom went through the same thing with a local ISP, and she's got a Mac. _After_ purchasing a year's worth of the service, when she announced to them that their connection software didn't work, and the ISP found out that she was on a Mac, their first suggestion was, "Buy a Windows 98 PC."
What I'd like to see is one of the Linux Support vendors step up and build a contract with some of the major ISPs. That way, if you are having Linux problems, you call AOL, and AOL refers you to their Linux Support Vendor.
In my experience (and I've only had a few ISPs, and one of them was my old college), they only _say_ that you have to use WinXX to access their systems, because that's all they support. I've always been able to figure out what their software was doing and configure ppp to work, but then again I've never had a national ISP.
I am the king... of No Pants! www.penny-arcade.com
You don't neccessarily have to pay more. In fact, you can pay less. I worked for an ISP that provided simple net access for $10/month. No tech supp for NT or Linux, but you could easily set it up, even with only the information we sent out to new signups (usually along with a cd for Win9x/NT or Mac).
This was a fairly small ISP, so it might be that only the larger ISPs make silly requirements like Qwest has.
The reason Qwest requires Win9x is to simplify support. NT is very different to configure for dial-up than 9x is, and don't even talk about Linux or Mac (or BeOS, or any other O/S). They want to be able to offer good support. What they don't seem to realize is that most Linux users won't call for tech supp, or if they do, it's because they want to know the IP of the DNS servers, or ask some other intelligent question, instead of calling up and saying "I can't connect" and expecting the tech to fix it.
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Recently I was travelling in California on business and wanted to set up an account with a no-brainer ISP so that I could check my e-mail (and Slashdot ;->) easily and without long-distance phone charges. I looked at all the majors with national POPs and they all had great deals for $20/mo +/- a few bucks, and places like Sprint and MCI also had options for ISP/Long Distance packages similar to the Qwest deal.
In most of these cases even the $20+/- mo ISP deals required the use of proprietary software (or customized versions of common software) a'la the Qwest deal in order to be able to sign up. After about 2-3 hours of searching for the right deal, I finally decided on an acceptable deal from MindSpring which was *primarily* based on the fact that they had a client which supported NT (I've got NT on my laptop, as well as Linux) and also happened to publish their networking info so you could hand-configure a client as well.
I was pretty annoyed that all the "great" deals required that you use Windows 95/98. Not only is this a reinforcement of the Microsoft monopoly (are they paying ISPs to do this?), but it requires one to use an OS with no security and poor stability regardless of whether or not you are a user of greater technical sophistication and higher requirements.
Essentially, people who know what they are doing are being require to pay a premium for service that will support them, even if their service needs (simple e-mail and connectivity) happen to match up with the lower level users. Why should I have to pay more for the SAME service just because I want to use Linux, or even NT?
o/~ we are pissed, we are pissed, we have to resist... o/~ - ec8or
I have used Mindspring before, and if memory serves me correct, you can simply sign up over the web. It worked perfect in every OS I tried, Linux, FreeBSD, Windows 9x/NT, and BeOS. But, since my work has an 800 dialup, that makes my life much easier now.. and it too works with all OS's.. though they would hate it if they knew I wasnt using Windows... ARGGGGGG
http://www.qwest.com/aboutqwest/contact.html
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I have been a customer of Qwest since early this year. I was happy when they lowered by monthy service charge and gave me a internet account. I was a little anoyed when I had to use a windoze box to set up my account. After installing thier custom netscape, and going through the sign up process, I simply copied down the:
- username
- password
- mail server
- pop server
- news server addresses.
After this I simply set up my linux box in the same fashion.I Agree they should have a less windows centric approach to the internet account setup. They should atleast offer an advanced setup option.
BTW they are using concentric's dial up lines. see www.concentric.com for access numbers.