Slashdot Mirror
Update: Opera Browser for Linux
S7 writes "Opera Software has indicated that it is currently diversifying its browser to accomodate a wider flavour of Linux distributions, not just RedHat and its derivatives. Hope they finish soon!" Yeah, I know Mozilla is going to have wonderful features like instant messenger and changeable themes and I don't know what-all else if and when it ever gets end user-usable, but Opera is a plenty good enough browser for the likes of me; it's fast, compact, simple, and reliable, all of which are software qualities I admire immensely. In fact, the only two things I really miss from Windows are Opera and NoteTab, which is IMO the worlds's finest text processing tool for online journalists. Now that Opera's on its way to Linux, all I need is a Linux version of NoteTab or something like it and I'll be in PC heaven!
I have to say, being a long time Slashdot reader, I really don't like Roblimo's style. Whereas most other Slashdot news announcements identify the link with a little bit of commentary thrown in, Roblimo tends to write an entire paragraph with his opinion on almost every story in the announcement.
I find that kind of lame, when all of those who post Slashdot stories thus far have seen fit to simply announce the story with a little bit of Slashdot spin, Roblimo thinks everyone needs to hear every last detail of his opinion on the news item on the stories he posts (maybe not all the time, but much more than other posters).
Keep the noise down, Roblimo!
Will Opera give distros discounts to bundle Opera with their boxed versions? Will they count on being lighter than Mozilla? How will they differentiate themselves? What can they possibly do that Mozilla can't match?
As much as I like Opera, I wouldn't give much for their chances.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
We've heard these updates before. How old is Opera by now, and since when have they been promining ports "real soon now"? It's a nice Windows browser, but the window of opportunity has slammed shut for them. In the time since Opera first started planning ports, Macs have gotten a version of IE that's actually not too bad (and fairly quick), Linux users are in the process of getting decent browsers with KDE and Gnome, and Mozilla is actually starting to finally grow up, and in public where everyone can see the progress.
In the early days when Netscape and Microsoft first started heading up the bloatware path, Opera had a nice market opportunity, but I think it's been squandered. Nobody's going to pay for a closed-source browser, however spiffy, when there's a reasonable selection of respectable open _and_ closed browsers, all of which are free. It's time the Opera folks started a new project.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
From the Opera URL listed in the parent:
And besides, you may get something 'free', but then it's mostly 'cheap' and of inferior quality. 'Free' and Opera don't go together - and never will.
The Opera folks clearly don't grok "Free" (speech) software. Just wait 'til mozilla's been out for a year or two--they'll grok then. I may buy a license anyway if I think it will be worthwhile for testing my HTML for compatability, but I don't think Opera will ever become very important unless they free the source. Not because I object to paying for a license, but because I don't think they will be able to keep up with mozilla.
slashdot broke my sig
While I'm sure Opera is a great browser, it seems to me their marketing philosophy is about as incompatible with free software's as you can get.
From their own literature: "Nothing is really 'free'. It is merely subsidized by other products. It is done in the interest of market share and domination, but not necessarily in the interest of the user. "
They further claim that the only reason software is given away free is to "tie in" users to buying software later. To those of us backing free software, this is obviously a gross overgeneralization at best, and complete ignorance of what we stand for at worst.
The following bothers me even more: "And besides, you may get something 'free', but then it's mostly 'cheap' and of inferior quality. 'Free' and Opera don't go together - and never will."
If this is really what they believe, they need to do a little research before they even think about pushing their way into the Linux market.
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Consult, v. t. To seek another's approval of a course already decided on.
Tough road for opera I'd agree.
But they might get some sales merely by being in stores, something Mozilla may not do. Linux users aren't very used to going to stores for software, but new converts from Windows may be different. They could also play the bundle game, with distros, or apps they play well with.
They may also have a shot at the browser market for embedded Linux devices if they are light enough.
I'm attracted to their tables-capable text only browser as well, I don't think Mozilla has done that.
If they want desktop market though, they better get out there well before Mozilla releases officially. Without being buggy. Ouch.
For those of you who cannot hold your breath: Opera is WINEable.
//Mutende
--
Unselfish actions pay back better
I'll pay too... if anything, to stop "silly" netscape updates like the "shop@netscape" button on version 4.7!
:-(
At $17.50 (student price), it's almost worth the hassle of getting rid of the afore mentioned shop button and the netscape communication screen when you fire up netscape's email...
And to think that they spent time adding the shop button instead of fixing bugs... netscape crashes regularly on my machine
And finally, I feel that opera must not be swallowed up by anyone... see what happens when a perfectly good browser gets bought by an on-line service (delays of releases to integrate instant messaging) or an OS company (I'd try using IE for Linux if microsoft developed it).
Karma makes sense. It makes a lot more sense if you add reincarnation.
NoteTab is one Windows Apps which I really prefer to any other Text Editor. I had written to the creater of NoteTab but he didn't seem too interested in porting it to Linux. Reason: too much of effort involved. I even offered to help there but he wasn't willing to take help. Anyone's given it a try?
Prakash
FreeOS.com - The resource center for free operating systems.
Attention Opera Software: stop announcing new projects and just port the damn thing already. Geez. How can a company diversify a product that doesn't even exist yet? As an aside, there's an old joke about Microsoft promises. The punch line is "My husband's a Microsoft developer and he just sits at the end of the bed and tells me how great it's gonna be when I get it." Sound familiar?
There's a notetab-esque clone you can check out on freshmeat: gnotepad.
Works wicked nicely for me, and i've had pleasantly few problems with it:)
-blarg
-- familiarity is only skin deep
Why?
;)
1) Their HTML rendering is quite lame. It doesn't render most simple HTML correctly, so things look 'weird' compared to Navigator/IE. If they can't even get that right, they've got no chance.
2) The interface to the program is, well, 'weird'. It's not intuitive; it's way too complex and hard to configure the way most people are used to browsers working (and yes, I realize some people may not like the way Navigator/IE work interface-wise, but that's what people are used to).
3) It costs money. Duh. Remember how Navigator started losing the browser war in the first place?
And lastly, c'mon, the name of the thing! The only thing worse than Opera is Country & Western!
Well, a few kept promises would be a good thing, I think.
- Project Magic will be updated monthly. Big surprise, it's updated every two months, unless somebody (like me) leaves them a nastygram in the guestbook telling them they haven't done so in two months.
- In April, we were told that at least a beta for linux would be released in 2Q, 1999. Shocking! We've got nothing other than a couple of (easily faked) screenshots of a text based browser!
I've given up. Mozilla still isn't ready for even beta use, Opera is dead (IMO), and I've not yet tried Amaya (though that will be fixed later today). Netscape is buggy (at best). No good browsers for Linux yet, and none on the horizon.I give up, and will simply stick with Netscape for now.
GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
I'm sorry, but I'm all for new products if they're better and free and everything, but Opera is simply a horrible browser. Say what you will about Netscape and IE, but they're pretty damn easy to use, and almost every web browser on the planet has followed their UI leads, even the simple ones like the one found in KDE. The few times that I've been required to use Opera for testing web designs, I've found it's UI to be horrendous at best. They split the concept of the browsing pane into multiple windows, almost like a separate sub-desktop. Their fonts always rendered a size too high. Their HTML compatibility was awful (this was the 3.0 release). And they had so many extra things bundled into the system that I couldn't even beging to configure it to do anything even remotely like what I wanted it to do. There is something to be said for the simplicity of IE and Netscape, which made the web about as easy to use as a cheap hooker (which, honestly, is what the web has become).
As far as I'm concerned, Opera is nowhere near the browser that Netscape/Mozilla is and is only getting recognition because they're an 'alternative'. When they concentrate on making web browsing as painless as their competitors, then they'll have a product they can market.
No, I don't think all other browsers are doomed to failure. Star Office, though, is free (as in beer), and the browser also is also bundled as part of a larger product. As long as people keep using Star Office, the browser can ride on the coat tails of the suite.
KDE is open source, which means that as long as somebody, somewhere is interested in it, it can continue to be used and updated. This is not the case with Opera. If the company goes under, gets bought out, or decides the Linux product isn't profitable, development stops even if it has a core of devoted users.
Opera, being payware in a market where people are used to getting their browsers gratis, has a steep uphill battle. It can't just be a little better in order to thrive. It has to be a LOT better. With the slimming down, modulization, and standards adherence of Mozilla, that's going to be a tough bill to fill.
I don't think all other browsers will die out or cease to be developed, but those that are proprietary and require a fee for use will be hard pressed to survive and make money.
The context of your comments about Mozilla seems to imply you think it is going to be yet another slow and bloated Netscape browser. If you had read the previous comments on the other two recent Mozilla articles you would have realised that Mozilla is making really excellent progress and is a compact download size.
Netscape will be themeable but that's just a spin off of their XUL user interface language. The fact that all the interfaces are written in XUL means that it can be easily themed as well as customising the user interface to the way you want.
As for integrating Instant messaging with email. No one at Mozilla.org said that and even if Netscape does do that you can easily get a copy that wouldn't have this feature.
Mozilla is here now (although in pre-alpha form). You can't see a current build of Opera on Linux so I believe Mozilla will be along sooner rather than later. Even if you don't like Mozilla their rendering engine is good and someone can use it as a base for another browser with a different interface.
If Opera had started porting (although to be fair they didn't have much money when they started) to other operating systems before the Mozilla announcement I believe they would have got a good share of the market but now their browser is likely to follow behind Mozilla and so is unlikely to succeed unless they can offer something special.
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Yes, and you know why we order CDs of distros? Because distros are huge, and in many cases (i.e. no network) the only reasonable way to install is off a CD. A browser is not very large, and can easily be downloaded.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!"
/.'s who don't know the difference between an assign and an equivalence are nonetheless guaranteed a place in hacker paradise.
A lot of posts here that Opera doesn't understand what free is, or otherwise complaining about Opera not being free. I think that most of these posters are still grossly confused between gratis and libre. Opera is neither but this hardly makes it satanspawn.
TAANSTAFL was first coined in the Great Depression of the US. Signs proclaimed "free lunch", but those seeking freebies during that hard time soon realized that "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch", since they had to "endure" sermons. Sometimes I think the preaching and gnuspeak on slashdot is the price paid for free software. Yeah, you don't have to pay money for Mozilla, but you have to endure endless sermons on how it is morally superior to Opera, how its developers are altruistic saints, and how those
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned