Slashdot Mirror
VA, O'Reilly, and SGI Sponsor Debian in a Box
Anonymous Coward writes "According to this News.com article. VA Linux Systems, O'Reilly and Associates, and SGI. Will be co-sponsoring a retail box version of Debian GNU/Linux. In addition VA will be helping to setup toll free technical support for Debian."
Well, for historical perspective, this is a normal Debian modus operandi. :) Potato has lots of outstanding release-critical bugs because there is a *lot* of distribution there. And typically Debian releases take forever, everyone bitches about that, and everyone including at least a few Debian developers claims that the project will never make it because of the slow release cycle. (Incidentally, some believe that no Debian release can happen without a large hardware failure among the Debian development and mirror machines. This has held true for every release so far.)
But I wanted to point out that Debian is a free software project like any other, and that means that all the dirty laundry gets aired on public mailing lists. That may make some people uncomfortable, but it's not a sign of impending doom. In fact, it's remarkably similar to what happens every time Debian takes more than about a week to release a new distribution. (Yes, some people were complaining about the release cycle within a week or two after slink was released. Go figure.)
On a different note, there has been a lot of discussion on the Debian mailing lists about fixing the long release cycle-time, and eventually things will probably change for the better. But with a few hundred vocal, independent-minded developers, there's a fair bit of organizational inertia to overcome.
Debian as a whole is doing quite well, compared to some past crisis points. In answer to someone else's post, I wouldn't judge the suitability of a distribution based on "its future". Use what works now -- and with Debian you can either have the rock-solid stable distribution, an "unstable" distribution that is often as solid as some commercially-released distributions, or you can selectively pull the sources from the unstable archives to update your stable distribution (this is what I use for machines I'm paid to maintain). Debian includes some nice source management tools to help automate downloading and building updated versions of packages from source. Debian isn't for people who have never used Linux (IMO), but for those who have some experience and want a system they can abuse and that will rarely let them down, Debian's the ticket.
Once you've installed slink---Do a minimal install just enough to get apt-get working---you can upgrade to potato; look at debian.org to find out how to configure your system to do this. This can be done overnight (or over several nights)---again start small and build from there.
Potato is leading edge stuff! and it keeps you there with minimal or no effort. Sometimes things break a little but I've never had a serious problem and when something breaks you just hop on #debian at OPN and the solution to your troubles is laid out for you.
#debian is great! the best thing about it are the bots: apt and dpkg. These guys know everything and will tell you what you need to know.
What makes debian so great is the enormous set of packages they have. Want to easily install some little known package? Try apt-get install and chances are you'll get it along with all the other packages it requires that you don't already have. The great thing is now that you have installed the package apt-get will keep it up-to-date without you have to worry about it.
The other thing that debian-potato does extremly well is configuration. It remembers how you like things and keeps it that way and if some package has changed drastically it will warn you about it.
OK this is a bit woffley but I just wanted to describe a little bit how fantastic debian is and to encourage you to give it a good try-out.
---
---
Debian is something different from the others. Yes, they may have packages, but Debian takes that idea to the extreme.
So, if you are using another distro, give Debian a try.
Bye! Did I sell it? =)
Debian is a different kettle of fish to other distros.
I seriously doubt that most debian people judge the degree of there success as to wether they have as you put it a "commercially sellable product".
Me, i would judge the success of a volunteer organisation by the work they do not the feasibility of a potential IPO.
Ive never had a problem with the debian packaging system, it has a lot of support. Do you degrudge them for not using the Redhat Package Manager?
Debian fill a very valuable segment of the linux market. They do have more support from "experts", but i seriously doubt they go out of there way to "deliberately sneer and shun newbies"
Whats wrong with aiming a distribution at "experts" anyway. Every man and his dog is making or intends to make a distribution aimed at newbies, thats fine its good to get fresh blood, but theres no reason to "deliberatly sneer and shun" experts!
How many distributions do aim at the experts.. two or three max..
I really shopped around for a distribution after Slackware lost ground technically. I tried really hard to like Red Hat because the press was determined it was the one true distibution - some closed source software releases such as IBM Viavoice and APC Powerchute seem only to work with Red Hat for some unfathomable reason (Has anyone noticed how Oracle seems to be distibution neutral - it runs on anything)
Ease of installation isn't 1% of what it takes to have a good distribution - even if it does make good copy for a clueless journo. I think Debian is the right choice for a Linux based server OS in a commercial environment. It is good to see a server vendor realise the truth of this. Red Hat may be the choice for the home user or Grandma, Debian is a professionals(and hackers) choice.
Funny they dont accept cod. I'm sure Tux would love a bit of fresh fish.
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
The relevance of *this* distribution getting recognition should be immediately obvious. Debian is the only mainstream distro that is not put together by a software company, it's put together by volunteers.
I would suspect that VA Linux, O'Reilly and SGI looked at Corel and Storm and thought, 'hey, let's beef it up but keep it as a conduit for further development'. What I mean by this is that by explicitly advocating Debian **as a branded product in its own right** they avoid the interminable 'Linux-is-fragmenting' arguments.
That being said, tho', I take your point about the slow (too-slow) updating process -- it's actually the only reason why I haven't gone off Red Hat yet.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
Also announced by SGI today: "New logo, faster systems, a potato peeler that even makes julienne fries and anything else they hope will save their ass."
Hotnutz.com
Hopelessly outdated?
Obviously, you've never had what us old folks call a real job. When you're using Linux at work, you can't upgrade the kernel every five minutes. You upgrade only when you have to.
Slink is many things, but the one thing it is the most to my company is stable. Running Debian/GNU Linux 2.1, kernel 2.0.36 on eight production boxes. They have all been up since I built them (1-6 months). Four of them replaced NT Server boxes. No down time. No rpm conflicts (no rpms at all). Just apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and away they go...
Fact is...for all the hype surrounding the 2.2 kernels, most production boxes are still using 2.0 kernels. Kernel tinkering is fun (and I do have my exploding Potato box at home), but some of us have to actually get some work done.
(Camera opens on an overworked housewife, looking at a BSOD.) "Not again! If only I had a way to get rid of those stubborn blue screens!"
Announcer: "Here, try the new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM)!"
(screen sparkles and is replaced by big smiley penguin. Housewife no longer works overworked and has new hair-do) Housewife: "Thank you Mr. Tux!"
Announcer: "The Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM) gets rid of blue screens in a flash! It forks! It blits! Look at those fantastic pixels! It surfs the web! You could even host an ISP with it!
(Camera shows Happy Guy sitting at desk with placard: President, SurfTheWeb Co.) "Thank you Mr. Tux!"
Announcer: All this an hundred more handy-dandy functions, including the patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM), can be yours for only four easy payments of $4.95! It's not sold in any stores! But wait, there's more! Order now and you'll also get "The Complete Guide To Debian"
(camera shows Happy Brother and Sister holding Debian book) Happy Kids: "That's super, Mr. Tux!"
(camera shows Tux) "When a complete stranger walks up to you and says 'Gee, your server smells terrific!', you know you're using the right operating system. I'm not only the president Tux-co, I'm also a user. I liked the product so much, I bought the company. The new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM) has my personal guarantee."
(small print: "not a guarantee")
Announcer: "Just call 1-800-4-DEBIAN to order the new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM)! Operators are standing buy! Have your Visa or MasterCard ready, or send a check or money order to P.O. Box 34146, Blair, NE 10013. Sorry, no C.O.D.s accepted.
Which distro uses mozilla as the browser?
:)
:)
And.. if you werent informed earlier.
Debian has and had (form the start) packaged mozilla, along with every version of Netscape known to women and men (ok being politically correct)
Infact, it is has the most packages comparied to all other distros
--
Dated? It was released on March, and frozen on November. So it's less than a year old anyhow. I don't think being a year old qualifies Slink as "very dated".
If you're missing Linux 2.2, you can upgrade your slink to it easily. Just remember to look out for trouble. If you want Gnome, there are unofficial updates (with this caveat). There are also other unofficial updates listed on the Slink release page and the unofficial apt sources list.
Yes you can. But don't do it unless you can stand total system failure. There are no guarantees if you use unstable. That said, I've never personally experienced a total system breakdown due to a bug in unstable, although I've missed a couple with luck.
This is good news for Debian and I hope it will go some way towards combating what I perceive as Debian's undeserved reputation.
.deb. Gnome used to be bad but now someone at debian helps them so there is hope for all!
;-P
Anyone's whose used it (including myself) can wax lyrical on it's various fantastic attributes including easy-administration and stability but often it seems to go unheard.
The following reasons seems to be the ones I run across the most:
1) Debian isn't RedHAt
I'm afraid for some people there is no hope. Having released themselves from one monopoly they, with busy hands, form a new prison. I guess the Press helps this big time and with many new users coming onboard we see this trend increase.
Debian isn't useful for everyone, if you're totally happy with your current system there's no reason to change it. But to have a closed mind while using a system based on openess seems awful!
2) Debian is out-of-date
Debian is done by volunteers and stresses stabilty so it does tend to move forward less quickly than other distributions in terms of released versions. This makes it very suitable for servers.
For client machines there are ways to stay up to date either using the unstable branch (like tracking any normal development project) or getting updates from those that release the software.
I do have some sympathy with the argument that it can be harder to stay up to date with Debian than RedHat because often people only package with RPM. Luckily Freshmeat helps and if you hang round on the debian mailing list you find out placed for getting stable updates for example www.debian.org/~branden keeps updates for XFree86.
If you do program some software I hope you'll consider releasing it as a
3) Debian is difficult
It's certainly true that Debian requires some effort in both installing it initially and getting used to the package system. The payoff is in a stable system and one which is easy to upgrade. The package system is complex because the integration of a system isn't straightforward - that said apt and the GTK frontend are going a long way towards streamlining as much as possible. It really does take system to the next level allowing you to upgrade distributions without reformatting or using a CD - there seems to be work on recompiling like with FreeBSD which would be fantastic.
4) Debian is political
Often cited as 'Those Free Software Nuts'. This one I think I have to agree with, because Linux is political in the sense of making individual decisions for freedom of exchange and community. In fact RedHat should also be commended on making a totally 'Free' distribution - proof that commitment to this principle can transcend the commercial barrier. In a way Debian is the easiest way for me to support the concepts of Free Software without making much effort as the Debian developers do it all for me - yeah I'm an armchair Free Software supporter! Aside from that I like being part, just by using, of a community program somewhat like the sharing impetus of the original Internet development.
Perhaps the demographics of Linux users are changing but I think Debian has a lot to offer.
bit
ps If you're one of those hard-toiling debian users can I say a big thanks every day of happy pr0n surfing is thanks to you
Selling machines doesn't necessarily create a profitable company. Take a look at SGI's last earnings report. Not too good, and trending down.
Not to slight them, I like SGI, but they've gotta find their niche again.
Hotnutz.com
Gee, O'Reilly's actually coming out with an Open Source book (I'm assuming none of the options are checked on the Open Publication License) and they're giving profits from the book/CD package back to Debian. It sounds like a very positive change.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Debian is truly something else,
:))
.. boot it.. love it! Swirl it!
The place I work at, is now running 90% debian, and would soon be running 100% debian. The neat bit about debian is how it's packaging system holds and it's ultra cool package management tool (aka apt). Which was the very reason why we upgraded to potato on all our servers. Debian does a good job of packaging almost anything that you can think about. And not only that, we can create a system that is fully GPLed with debian, without the hassles and.. "code-less-bugs" associated with commerical software.
One other thing I like about debian is it's platform support. Yes, debian runs on the most platforms (Linux version). Not to mention, debian is the first OS that has support for the GNU Hurd (very cool and very 21st century stuff
And guess what, debian has the best maintainers and you can meet and talk with them through their conferencing rooms (over on OPN) and mailing lists. They are extreemly helpful. Bugs are resolved almost instally, if you find a bug, the very next day it would be fixed (if possible) and everyoen doing an update would have it.
Speaking about updates, debian uses a very advanced package updating/upgrade/management system. Dependences are always checked (infact, you can install a whole debian system by just typing out one line with apt-get).
Debian is also good as a thin client. We have wroking debina client boxes running on 15 mb of hd space, where else the alterantive (rh took around 30 mb - on minimal install).
If you like, download debian cd now! The download process is done through rsync (Not a full big WAD of 640 mb like other distros), debian uses a very advanced tool to check and recheck every bit of your download, infact you can stop and restart download anytime you like, and create the cd spanning several days (not just in one go). This is one feature that would even give ppl with modems the chance to download debian ISO cd over the net. Get it
Oh! Free virtual-beer in #debian over on OPN
--
I think the closest Debian comes to being easy for newbies is Storm Linux from stormix it's based on debian yet has an easy to use graphical install. It also has the Storm Administration System which I didn't bother to try out. While I'll stick to Debian, I would gladly recommend this distro to a newbie looking to try out Debian. dselect would probably scare most newbies away.
--
To correct a possibly misleading statement. The support that VA will be offering will be through a toll free number, but will be paid (although inexpensive) support.