Slashdot Mirror
MTV's Hacker Portrayal
fat_mike writes "Last night, MTV did a True Life show on Hackers. There are some interesting comments over at the Hacker News Network. " I was unable to see it, but it doesn't sound like it went very well - coverage that didn't understand the subject matter. Anyone else catch it?
Steven Levy wrote a book that gets it right- "Hackers". It has comparatively little about phreaking and intrusion (for that read Bruce Sterling's "The Hacker Crackdown")- instead, it's very old school and illustrates the knowledge seeking obsessions of classic hackers, for which intrusions or 'lock' breaking was no more than a tool to get to other tools to learn things.
If you want anybody to really understand what a hacker(1) is, have 'em read the Steven Levy book. If you want them to understand what a hacker(2) is, have them read the Bruce Sterling book. If you want them to understand the situation have them read both...
Starting a post with:
"I am sure I will be labeled as flamebait here..."
... or something to that extent, is a sure fire way to get moderated up. Not to knock this post too much, but a 5!? I remember when it took close to a poet laureate to get there. Moderators need to spend more time fishing out the good 1's & 2's out there, rather than boosting the already credited posts to 4's & 5's.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
The l0pht, in my estimation, is a credible source of both technical and hacker-cultural knowledge. That doesn't mean that MTV actually listened to them.
And hey, if you're looking for credible journalism, why are you watching MTV?!
Having not seen the MTV "documentary", I can't coment directly on how badly the show portrayed /hackers/ but I can surmise.
First, one has to realize that MTV is not a reliable source of fact for any thinking member of our society. Rather, it is more like a big advertisement, telling us the youth what we should be, look, and act like. Consequently, it is no surprise they f'd up the portrayal of hackers and serious computer people. They will not be reporting on what is ttrue whet is real, just on what sound like it'd sell or be cool.
Second, we need to see that (unfortunately) this is what most people think of us. I cannot describe how annoying it is for computer-stupid and technlogy-ignorant people to come up to me and ask me about how to hack this, or do that...just because they saw that that's what people like us do (on TV) when in reality, if they bothered to get some real information, they'd see how skewed their view really is.
It is equally annoying that some people regard our line of work as trivial or unimportant, even dangerous (evil hackers!) especialy after seeing something like the MTV show. Unfortunately that is a widespread general stereotype that cheapens who we are as well as what we do.
I'd personally like to see a program that explores the real *computer geekdom* and portrays us as regular human beings with an interest in technology. Especially in regards to youth, who usually don't get much respect from older people, I'm sure the documentary did not help matters any. As a Web Developer for Millersville University (not responsible for the page design - please no flames - *grin*), I am a youth (19) with a serious computer job, with serious responsiblities, and would like to be treated by others outside the computer community with some degree of professional respect. As it is, I'll probably be viewed as a haX0r due to the way I prefer to dress and what I do.
Anyway, sorry to get off on a tirade like that, but I just wanted to put in my 2 on this issue.
--------------------
kayser_soze
(aka Carlos Noguera)
--------------------
"if it's not one thing.....it's probably not that thing."
I agree that MTV's "journalism" is definitely crap. This show was innaccurate no matter what definition of "hacker" you use. If you use the definition in favor at /., it wasn't even close. Even if you use the more common definition (somebody who breaks into computers), it was incorrect - they had this guy talking about how he downloaded the Matrix online before it came out on DVD. That has nothing to do with hacking of any definition, it's simply movie piracy.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
HACKMAN: The city's in peril! Quickly L33tl4d, to the Hackcave!
L33TL4D: You mean your basement?
HACKMAN: ... Yes.
o/~ da da da da da da da da Hackman! o/~
(log on next week as Hackman battles the mp3ster)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I didn't see the MTV show but I was watching Serena Altshul (sp?) on The View the other day (it was on in my gym, seriously) and I knew from what she said that it wouldn't be accurate. She didn't once mention the word "cracker" although she was refering to them. She also mixed hacking in with spam and the y2k thing. Then she said the best way to get rid of spam was to reply to the sender and tell them to leave you alone, wrong again. When the reporter didn't learn anything, I have doubts about the program. I haven't seen too much of Ms. Altshul recently but I do remember liking her reporting on Channel 1 in high school so I was disappointed to see her stoop to this type of typical MTV reporting. That show would have been an excellent place to get the word out about the difference real hackers like the l0pht guys and lamer script kiddies but instead, they seem to have squandered the opprotunity for the same old sensationalist crap. I guess I didn't really expect any different though.
Really, watching "The Real World" (which is anything but) makes me sick. MTV is all about money, and therefore all about hype.
And, therefore, sensationalized opinions about "hackers" that portray them as "dangerous" and "exciting," which bring the all-important "ratings." Let the little twinks follow JP.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
I am trying to figure out just when it was that MTV really started to suck.
Everyone will say it happened when they stopped playing music videos... but when did that happen? My memory has begun to fade on me, but I really do remember enjoying MTV at some point!
It was pretty bad well before Singled Out ever came along.
How many people were shocked at themselves when they started prefering VH1 to MTV!?
L0pht had the ear of a journalist (okay, that's debatable, but go with me) and apparently didn't even bother to emphasize how horribly the media continues to mangle the term "hacker". I personally expected better. Not from MTV, of course, but from the "community", L0pht especially. Not to mention the people they profiled aren't worthy of even the term "cracker", they're just script-kiddie web-page defacers. Serena repeated several times how these kids had broken into "some of the defense department's most secure computers". Which computers? their web servers! If those are their most secure computers, we're all fucked.
Grumble.
FreakHo
ps- and jaypee's little performance was scraping the barrel of publicity-mongering, but a fish has gotta swim.
I'm not sure why MTV chose the moon flag logo in their early days, but I think maybe it was because they thought of themselves as pioneering spirits, like the first astronauts. But after Challenger, they decided it wasn't cool any more (sort of like similar moves by networks after Columbine, they didn't care about those kids, they just cared about presenting a homogonized message while attempting to appear hip and rebellious), the channel never really got a new symbol, except for their initials (MTV).
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I hate to make generalizations, but everything on Television is fake, not real, untruthitudes, falsities (yes I know these last two aren't words, heh). I only ever had faith in one television programming station, the Discovery Channel. That was until they made that fake Blair Witch Documentary (or was is sci-fi?) anyway..., cable boxes should come with disclaimers saying that everything on here is a half witted attempt to cater to the least intelligent people, cause they make up 99% of the worlds population. Also... MTV is (or was) Music Television. Why are they doing stories about h(cr)ackers? I read the post a while back when they announced it, and it didn't affect me at all. Because I don't watch television (much), and I especially don't watch teenybopper nonsense like MTV. The culture of the world is going downhill.
I unfortunately watched the program. I got what I was looking for (cheap laughs) though it still left a bad taste in my oral cavity. The best part was one of the scenes in some kids room.
Director: We want to get a shot of you doing
impressive. You know, lots of computer
code and stuff on the screen.
Kid: Um, okay. (types ps a)
Maybe I'm the only one that found this humorous.
Maybe you'll return to Minagua, You could go unnoticed in such a place. -FZ
(http://www.l0pht.com)
/. is what they had in mind.
"L0pht to be on MTV's True Life: I'm A Hacker
10.10.1999
On October 13th at 10 pm MTV will debut True Life: I'm a Hacker reported by MTV's Serena Altschul. Although most of this show will feature young hoodlums who get their kicks from breaking into other people's systems, the L0pht is also interviewed showing the more productive side of hacking."
I'm guessing MTV wasn't really interested in the productive side of hacking. The MTV press release (http://www.l0pht.com/misc/hackerrel.html) mentions it in only one sentence: "Finally, the show examines a more productive side of hacking, visiting The L0pht, a group of Boston hackers who develop security software for major companies, and act as advisors to the U.S. Government on how they can maximize security mechanisms on their own systems."
An exerp from elsewhere in the press release:
"Venturing into the inner-most sanctums of this cyber subculture, 'True Life: I'm a Hacker' explores how hackers communicate with one another and where they learn the tricks of the trade."
Hackers have inner-most sanctums? Boy, am I missing out...
Quoting one of their subjects: "It's like being God."
Geez, and here I am wasting my time sitting in a cubicle gaining weight when I could be Godlike, just because I know what int main(int argc, char *argv[]) means.
"Through on-line chats and talk shows cybercast to thousands of their peers worldwide, many young hackers, who otherwise would have simply blended in, have an opportunity to achieve major levels of recognition and adulation."
I wonder if
Sorry but if this comes accross as flamebait..
I sat down last night with my kids and watched that "show"...
To be honest, I know many people that fall into the catagory of hacker, my children tell me that they want to be hackers when they grow up.
That "Show" was not about hackers.
That was an attempt by MTV to capitalize not only on FUD, but it was a poor excuse for journalism. I am will to say that 95%+ of all hackers do not have blue hair(at least the ones I know), or stand out in anyway. Most of us are more concerned with being able to do our own thing, and learning as much as we can along the way.
My 4 year old daughter summed it up best, after watching the show, she started shaking her head and asked me "Daddy, they aren't like anybody we know", I told her that there were all kinds of hackers in the world, all she could say was the ones on the show were "not real hackers, they were dumb hackers"
(I have very bright children, so this is not added to in anyway)
After last nights "show" i am seriously thinking of taking my cable out.
MTV may have once been something interesting, and bringing us interesting things that we couldn't find elsewhere--
Ren & Stimpy, Remote Control, stuff like that.
They had a few good shows, and they were smart enough to spin Ha! off on its own channel (which combined with Comedy Central to form The Comedy Channel). There were funny bits, with Randy of the Redwoods running for president, but it was something to go along with the music, not as a replacement for the music.
Of course, then, in about '93 or so, that music included Mr. Big, (who I do believe was the son of some MTV exec), and about that point, people began to see that the music on MTV really wasn't that good. Metallica had sold out, and produced video after video, and things started turning into the popularity concerts like the student Goverment elections in high school, and had nothing to do with how good a song was.
With the type of crap MTV was playing, I'm almost glad they stopped playing music, but it's a shame that they also stopped producing good shows.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
pnm://www.plus8.com/mcdade/imahackr.rm
Not commenting on content, just want the information to be available.
-b
Being the "haX0r" or "computer geek" at the party, when ever I break out the laptop to play mp3's everybody start saying "hack the FBI!" "crack some software for me" "break into my school and change my grades." I just wish once I would hear from someone something like "make this program run the way i want it to" or "help me secure my computer from evil people". It really bugs me. I have morals. I wouldn't steal from someone, trash someone's house, distroy what ever, turn off their power in real life just becuase I CAN, why would I do that in "cyber space"?
I believe it's really about the corruption in the world. People have to be good people in real life, just to get by, but when they get online it doesn't matter what they do. There's no big blue. They can do what they want and feel like a god when they DoS attack some lame server. Or setup a firewall that deny everything coming in with no services running and feel unstopable. Feeling powerful and unstopable is what people want to feel like. What is so great about spending 20 hours reading and writing code?!?! Nothing.
Thus, you will see what hacker really are in the news.
Of course hacker have nose rings, wear all black, listen to electrica, and are outcast of the world.
umm...
yeah...
MarNuke
At the risk of creating a stereotype, I would like to think that the individuals who frequent Slasdot are usually very intelligent, well spoken people. We thirst for knowledge of any kind, and strive to teach the "masses" about our culture and tear down as many pre-conceived notions as possible. Then, when something like this comes up very little gets done (if you don't count complaining here on slashdot). I'm not trying to start a flame war, I actually have a suggestion. With as many great minds as there are visiting this site, couldn't we get together and write some sort of treatise for the masses in general explaining the differences between crackers and hackers, and essentially address the fears and misinformation that make our lives so much more difficult than need be sometimes? We write things like the jargon file, and there are a million "how to be a hacker" faqs, but none of these address the non-technical people that really need the education.
Knowing MTv like I do, they will be rebroadcasting the show 10 or 20 times in the next month. Does anyone know when this will be?
I understand that it's a poor show, but I would like to know what they did wrong so that I can enlighten my mis-educated friends that actaully did see it. Can't really do that, if I don't know what went down...
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
This is how the media portrays hackers. As much as we should expect the media to dig a little deeper and get a grasp on the issues, they won't. To even try means to add a slant to the issue.
/.ers will just have to learn to cope. A cracker will always be called a hacker. The media will always have a slant on real life.
Just like /.ers do. :P
Not really. It's not that MTV lowers anyone's IQ.- -----------------------
But simply that those with lower IQ's are more likely
to accept MTV as a legitimate source of information.
Just like the reports saying that the Internet turns
otherwise healthy normal people into geeks and shut-ins.
They fail to realize that geeks and shut-ins are just
a large group of people that happen to like to use the Internet.
That's all, nothing particularly mind-blowing.
----------------------------------
Why should any of you (we) care what image is being portrayed of us. I mean it's not like any of us would call ourselves "hackers" or anything. It's not like any of us spend any time on computers.
(/sarcasm)
I watched the show, or I should say it was on the TV in the same room (I'm a multi-media-vore). Most of the guys on it were idiots. Shamrock was a joke, he wasn't picking up a Mysterious Disk, he was trying to hide his crystal. Ever see a group of folks with police scanners, just hanging out. Deep red eyes and shifty as hell. He was in jail for "possession with intent to distribute" and some other "information-related" stuff. It is really sad that this was one of the images portrayed, a freakin' meth dealer, nice job MTV.
Mantis, (the black kid) was by far the most positive image. He seemed intelligent, and lo and behold, they actually showed a CLI on his screen (UNIX-type files), most of the other shots were GUI's (and mostly win). At the very least he knew how to dress and interact in "normal" life. A positive image, surprise, surprise. He also mentioned that now he was a good guy, mostly, but good and bad mean different things to different people. He was the only one quoted "information wants to be free", which he mentioned in passing.
The other kid (Chameleon, his hair dyed blue for camo), who talked to Bin-Laden's agent and was awakened one morning with a gun in his face (his mom backs up the story So I'll give it the benny of the doubt) was the other side of the story. I'd guess he has other "issues", seemed like a pretty normal script kiddie who found something interesting, investigated and got slammed back into reality. With enough of 'em out there, one or two are bound to get into trouble.
Serena, while attractive, was totally out of her element, had no clue, no idea what questions to ask, and a total lack of anything resembling a grasp on any single idea represented in the half-hour (with 7 min. of commercials) tidbit. At the end of the show, during the credits, she couldn't login, and started immediately blaming "hackers!, grr". How many times, as a percentage, is a user not being able to login attributable to getting cracked? 1%, maybe 2?
I wouldn't even call it a full meal of info, just some random images, noise if you will. Unfortunately the younger generations of TV viewers often pick the signal out of the crap and this signal was crap.
I'm not sure where this post turned into a full-on review, but I watched the show so I figured I should share.
+&x
Not this story excatly, but about 5 days ago or so, /. posted a story alerting it's readers that MTV would be holding the special. And so this was story was created just to give a forum to complain about the show. The original story can be found here
I'd say something on my own behalf, but I remembered a (somewhat) fitting quote from the Jargon File:
The last part of that quote is key. Why doesn't anyone really bother? It's a waste of time. Eventually the media will get it (maybe), but certainly not any time soon. Remember, some newspapers still think that HTML is a programming language..
As far as references to Slashdotters go.. A lot of Slashdotters have objected to the proper use of the term hacker, and often tell everyone to "just shut up about it".. I'd imagine that most actual hackers don't have any interest in it, most crackers call themselves hackers anyway so they probably think that the media is correct, script kiddies would certainly rather be called crackers or hackers, and most people who actually know the differences between all of these terms don't really find much interest in it either.
If anyone is that excited about it, register a domain name (that makes sense for this purpose) and write all sorts of "hacker != cracker" propaganda, then feed the links to as many "media types" and "geek sites" (like Slashdot), and maybe something will happen. I kind of doubt it, and I for one have other, more productive ways to waste my time (at least AFAIC =P).
~ Kish
Well, I saw the show today (Thursday Oct 14 99). MTV re-aired it about noon EDT. Just so you all are more informed when you post about it, here's a synopsis/review of the show.
It centered around three self-proclaimed "hackers": Shamrock, Chameleon, and Mantis.
Shamrock told Serena Altschul (anyone remember her from Channel One?) that he was a "phone phreaker." One of the first shots of him in action was when he was talking on a payphone and had a cell phone laying on top of it. During the course of the program, one of his friends was arrested, and he and Serena had to make it to this guy's apartment to get a disk before the police got to it. Shamrock refused to tell what was on the disk, and while he and a friend left Serena on the street she commented to the camera that this was the most exciting news lead she had ever been on. I found that interesting. At least Shamrock carried around a scanner for police frequencies. That's kind of hacker-like, I guess. Oh, and he also sells pot, has a criminal record, and got into hacking to change his grades.
The next guy was Chameleon, who had blue hair. His strength was breaking into military systems. He alluded to cracking NASA and DOJ websites, but never really said it out right. A guy from AntiOnline told MTV all about Chameleon's downfall. Apparently he was alright poking around, until he started downloading the programs that control satellites. The FBI raided his house, arrested him, but didn't put him in jail. Instead, he has a job writing code to keep hackers out now. Near the end of the show, they showed him at Comdex in Las Vegas. It didn't have anything to do with anything.
The third guy, Mantis, was interesting. He's a host of the radio show Parse (with some other guys and a GIRL! Yay hacker girls!). He told Serena that he's not the stereotypical hacker at all. I've never seen a hacker in a necktie, so I guess he must be right. He talked a lot more about the culture than anything (Mantis was the source of most of the misinformation on the show).
I think the worst part of the show was how they didn't talk about any of the equipment/OS used. Ok, so it wasn't really catered to us geeks, but it wouldn't have been that hard to say as a sideline "And by the way, none of these hackers use Windows or AOL." The L0pht was interviewed too. They talked about "good hacking" like Mantis, but then Shamrock said that everyone's good and bad, that there are no good or bad, so that's the image Serena ended on. That all hacking is bad. It reminded me of all the DOJ kids anti-hacking pages.
I think MTV could have done more with it. Someone should make a series on good hackers and the hacker culture.
right?
"when ever I break out the laptop to play mp3's"
:)
-- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"'
Venture Capitalist - Backer
Breaks into other peoples systems to damage them - Cracker
Enjoys exploring as a learning experience - Hacker
Picks up dead animals - Knacker
Puts things in boxes - Packer
Member of religious sect - Quaker
Content to run 'setup' and use all defaults - Slacker
That should clear things up!
Chuck
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }