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Laser Vision Correction?
Here's another query from Yet Another Anonymous Coward: "I have been considering laser vision correction for quite some time. However, I can't seem to find anyone who can give me a straight answer on what is involved, what it costs, etc. Has anyone had the surgury, or know where I can find information on it? "
I had a friend who had laser vision correction.
:)
It cost him about $1,200 per eye, (it's done on a per eye basis) but I think it can probably get cheaper than that depending on where you go.
He LOVED it after he had had it done, although he did say that it felt very disgusting as it was actually happnening. (Peeling of the cornea, reshaping, and replacing, I believe)
He did have to go for a touch up operation about 6 months after he got it done originally, and that was a bit annoying but free.
I had a discussion with him the other day about it - he thinks it was worth it although I've heard of other people who have had to have touch up operations as well.
I'm betting that it would save money over the long term, and I'm considering it now myself, but coughing up the cash in the first place can be hard. (For some people, anyway.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I had my eyes laser vision corrected about 1 year ago now, and I have had no regrets whatsoever. I used to have 20/400 in the left and 20/175 in the right, but since the surgery I now have a stable 20/20 in both eyes.
If you've never had to wear glasses or contacts you can't even imagine the feeling of being able to SEE normally for the first time ever! You walk around all day thinking about all the things you can see now for the first couple of months.
Mine cost about $2400 per eye, including free checkups and free enhancements should the surgery not take completely. I know you can probably get it for "real cheap" someplace else, but step back a minute and think how much that $5000 is really worth. What is that..
1) Room and board for a few months?
2) A piece of crap car?
3) Mebbe a few new computers?
or
4) Perfect vision, all day, everyday, for the rest of your life.
Hehe. I can't push it enough; mortage the house, sell your soul, go get it done.
I know many people who've had it done and I myself have had it done in one eye.
Everyone else I know was elated with the results.
I, however, am left with irregular astigmatism in my eye. Basically, I see double out of one eye. That sucks. I'd rather be nearsighted. It's basically untreatable except (maybe) with a hard contact. I can see better than before, without contacts, but not as good as when I had my contacts in. Now, I won't risk my right eye.
Bottom line: it's a low risk but there is still a risk. It's your eyesight. As long as you are awake and have your eyes open a PRK or LASIK fuckup will be right there bugging you. Every single minute.
Personally, if I had it to do over again I would stick with my contacts. Maybe in a few years technology will advance to the point where they can fix my messed-up eye and reduce the risk from low to astronomically low. Until then, forget it.
My mom has worked for an optomologist (sp!?) for over 12 years and he refuses to do the surgery because there is still an alarming number of patients who report their vision degenerating years after the surgery. There's not enough long term data yet to really know what's going on. Plus, even if you get the surgery, you're still predisposed to needing bifocals or readers once you get a bit older...
I say largely because while your eyes aren't affected, your muscles are.. and they are responsible for up to 20% of your visual acuity if memory serves. So it's a good idea to take frequent breaks (for a variety of reasons - not just for your eyes), look away from the monitor every now and then (look far away, wait, look back) to get those muscles working, and eat a normal diet. The last one will work wonders for your energy levels and stuff... I find alot of geeks have less than stellar diets.. myself included. disclaimer: I'm a coder, not a doctor jim!
Hope you found this useful....
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However, unless there's some compelling reason (approaching blindness, you're a football player, etc.) why you need to lose the glasses/contact and quick, I don't see a reason to rush into what seems to be still a rather immature area of medicine.
Glasses and contacts are a hassle, but the unknown long-term effects of laser vision correction should scare the bejezus out of you -- what would you do for a living if your eyes didn't work right ten years from now? The point is, we have thousands of years experience with letting eyesight get gradually worse, and we can generally predict when things about about to go seriously wrong. Until you get to that point, why risk something so important?
That said, I must admit that I dream about the day that I'll be able to wake up in the morning and see my clock again (without accidently leaving my contacts in, that is). Never having to clean my glasses or deal with a cat hair on my contact ever again is a really appealing prospect. Just not sp appealing that I'd risk making my situation worse.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
The basic upshot is that there's about a 75-85 percent chance that your vision will improve to 20/40. Past that, the odds decrease, but are at about 40-60 percent for 20/20 vision. For a list of statistics, go here.
Side effects can include halos around bright lights, starburst effects, and other interesting visual abnormalities. They tend to go away in a few weeks to a few months.
The procedure itself is very quick, and takes about 15 min per eye. For a pretty good description of the procedure, check out this page, about halfway down.
If you do read one page on the subject, let it be this one. This page presents a negative viewpoint on LASIK surgery, with some statistics, problems, etc. I intend to have this done, but I'd still read this to make very sure that you comprehend the risks.
Price can range anywhere from $1200-$2500, depending on the place. The one I'm looking at is about $1650/eye. Most places include "touch-up" procedures (ie, the eye reshaped itself and needs re-lasering) for free in a 1-2 year period. Make sure you check about this.
Most places will allow you to watch a procedure, if you're curious. Might be a smart thing to do.
Another good place for information is the Yahoo! category dealing with the subject. Lots of good links here.
Tsu
--- Now, go away 'cuz you all up in my Kool-Aid!
I had the LASIK procedure done, and I went from "must wear contacts since glasses cut off air supply," (-6.5 diopter contacts) to 20/25 or 20/30 - which is exactly right. (A reputable doctor won't aim for 20/20 in someone pushing forty because they're going to naturally become a bit farsighted in the next few years, so I should hit 20/20 in a few years.) I also had a modest amount of astigmatism which they completely eliminated.
My advice to anyone considering LASIK surgery is to whack yourself on the head a few times with a 2x4 until you get your priorities straight.
You do NOT want to make this decision on the basis of price. I paid $5000 (both eyes, plus followups), which was the usual price quoted by reputable doctors in this area.
I could have saved a thousand dollars or two... if I was willing to have my eyes operated on by the guy who wasn't making royalty payments on his laser gear. I think my doctor said that saved him $500 or so a pop -- but it also meant that his gear wasn't getting serviced. Maybe the laser delivering less power than he thought, or more. Or maybe it was randomly mixing the two. Any variation will make it much harder to get predictable results.
Or I could have saved some money by going with the guys who had just gotten back from their seminar and were excited at getting into the exciting new world of laser surgery.
During one of my follow up visits (and with myopia this severe it took me several weeks before I could drive at night or read the newspaper without reading glasses) my doctor (not the laser guy, but the glasses guy I have seen for a decade) mentioned that he had lunch with a peer a few weeks earlier. My vision, at the time, was still a little off but it was clearly getting better every time I came in. His peer's patient started out with slightly better vision than me, but she went to a cheaper doctor and one eye had severe astigmatism and her other eye was severely overcorrected -- and LASIK correction for farsightedness is far more invasive.
The point should be clear: PRICE IS THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES. Most people are focused on the "reasonable best" that can happen (e.g., "gee, I should have 20/25 vision and not need glasses"), and not on the "reasonable worst". An experienced doctor with good corporate support might have a "reasonable worst" that you'll still need (thin) glasses at times, but you won't have major vision problems. An inexperienced doctor or even an experienced one cutting corners may have a "reasonable worst" that you'll be overcorrected (farsighted), have bad astigmatism, or worst.
Is fucked up vision for the rest of your life really worth pennies per day? ($1000/40 years is $25/year, or something like 8c/day.)
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
One year ago I had the Lasik procedure performed on both eyes (at the same time). I started reviewing my options two years prior to the surgery and settled on the (more expensive) option of Lasik because the procedure was less invasive and there were fewer, and less dramatic, side-effects and risks post-surgery. The total cost for my surgery, with a reputable physician (which I'll address momentarily), was 5k. It is very important to select a physician who not only has received GOOD training but has performed a lot of procedures. Don't hesitate to ask for specifics such as how many procedures they have performed and the rate of complications in their patients. Feel free to contact me off line if you want details on my physician, who is in the Baltimore/DC area. You have to be awake for the procedure, which can be a little disconcerting. I was offered Valium and told the standard dose is 10mg. I asked for and got 30mg so the edge on my anxiety was dulled quite a bit! The entire procedure lasted about 10 minutes with total time under the laser of 7 seconds on one eye and 6 for the other. They will let friends or family watch the procedure on a monitor and you definitely have to have someone with you to drive you home. This is my perspective of the procedure: Lay back in reclining chair with head rested in indentation. The doctor applied numbing drops to my eyes, which stung a very little bit (like dust got in my eyes). She then used a circular device to prop my right eye open (talking to me the whole time, btw) then lowered what appeared to be a circular object down on to my eye (I felt a slight pressure, which was the incision). She then used forceps to peel back the cornea flap. This was the most uncomfortable point for me because I went blind, with the darkness spreading from the outside in. When she started the laser to resurface my cornea I could 'see' the red lines going across my eye. Seven seconds later (and she was counting down) she used the forceps again to place the cornea flap back down, put in a few antibiotic drops and asked me to close my eye. After the second eye was done they gave me some dark glasses and antibiotic drops as well as some plastic shields to tape over my eyes when I slept for the next week. I could see after the procedure, but that Valium had me swaying! I went straight home to bed and slept through to the morning. When I woke up and after I'd peeled off the bug-eyed looking shields and opened my eyes for the first time it was like a miracle. My vision was perfect. Of course, out of habit I started to fumble for my glasses! I did have some side-effects for the first month. At night I would see a halo around street lights and on-coming traffic, which made driving at night a little uncomfortable for me. This resolved the first month. I am, however, more sensitive to bright lights and always wear sunglasses outside on clear days. All in all, I am very glad I had this procedure and would recommend laser corrective surgery to others with the following caveats: do your research and choose the procedure that is right for you, don't choose your procedure based on cost - wait and save more if you must or look into health savings accounts with your employer to use pre-tax $ (some will even pay for it up front and then you pay back over a period of time), don't be afraid to ask for more Valium, and find a reputable physician that makes you feel comfortable.
There are two major forms of treatment currently available: LASIK and PRK - LASIK being the most common form. If you dig deeply enough, you will likely find enough discomforting information so as to convince you away from the surgery.
In my case, I work at a company where the insurance policy covers LASIK surgery. Nearly a full third of the staff has had the procedure. All of them have been "successful" but the one thing that goes unnoticed by most people in their research is what exactly defines a successful operation.
According to the multiple sites that I had researched, surgeons consider it a successful operation if you're vision is 20/40 or better. However, according to many testimonials, some doctors don't check pupil size before surgery. If the laser diameter is smaller than your dialated pupil, be prepared for visual artifacts and likely much worsened night vision.
For more information, I highly recommend examining the following URL. What you will read may scare you.
http://www.surgicaleyes.org
The one thing to keep in mind, that I had heard while I was digging for more information, is that 1 in 50 surgeries have an undesirable outcome. The surgeries may have been deemed successful but the side effects have not been satisfactory to the recipients.
Given those odds, I was not going to wager organs that are currently unreplaceable.
Just my $0.02 and recently collected data.
sleight
Well, I asked my eye doctor about the surgery about 6 months ago, when I had my last exam. He said I'm an excellent candidate, etc. etc. etc. but then talked about his misgivings about the procedure:
1) He doesn't recommend it until you're 25- he says that before then your eyes are still growing and changing.
2) There have been no long term studies on the after-effects of the surgery. He described how before the surgery, the cornea is a grid of perfect hexagons, and after the surgery, the grid is gone, replaced by fused cells, small lesions, etc. He said that theoretically that should have no effect on the long-term health of the eye, but that lesions and fused cells don't make him comfortable.
He was overall definitely enthusiastic, but I think those two misgivings are definitely something to mention to your eye doctor when discussing the procedure.
Matt Zito
me@mzi.to
I was listening to a program on National Public Radio about LASIC laser vision correction. The general consensus from the various doctors that were interviewed seamed to say, "it is a good, but expensive procedure with a low rate of failure: but this is your vision we are talking about so perhaps it is best to wait a few years to see if the technology improves and to see long term results from patients that have already undergone the LASIC procedure."
I remember how they told of one person with horrible vision, who couldn't drive a car even with glasses on. The procedure brought him to 20/60-- good enough to drive with glasses.
They also told of an execute who's wife bought him the surgery for his birthday. Something very goofy happened and now he has double vision in both eyes. "My life is ruined, I have lost my independance," he said.
I think it is proof enough in that last case that would make me wait a little while longer or find an experienced doctor to perform the surgery. I recall the program recommending you call the National Board of Optomitry (sorry, no URL) to get recommendations.
Oh, in reply to the parent of this thread:
The doctors often under-correct to make it easier on your eyes when you age. If they were to correct your vision too far, you might need some heavy reading glasses when you get older!
-AP
I saw a television new segment the other day about VisX, the company that makes the laser equipment. They are just now coming out with a new diagnostic device that more accurately measures your eye. They are already able to hit 20/20 most of the time, but with the new technology that is coming out, you'll be able to have "better than perfect" vision -- 20/10 in many cases. This is perhaps the first time in history that there has been surgery available to improve human functionality beyond what is "natural". If you don't think that's cool, you have no business calling yourself a geek, I say. Should be out by the end of next year....
Wikia
I think the big problem is people not shopping around for their doctors well. Before I had LASIK my eyes were pretty bad, I could make out the E on the chart and could guess some of the letters on the line below it but that was about all. I don't have my last prescreption handy and don't remember exactly how bad I was.
I've been waiting quite a while for many of the clinical trials to finish. My normal eye care doctor also had been watching the trials and was trained in RK but refused to use it. Recently he told me I should look into LASIK and I did. With a vengence.
I spent over 4 hours talking with the doctor who I eventually had do my surgury. I spoke with nearly a dozen of the over 1,000 patients he had already treated. Oh, and I went to the most respectable clinic in my area to find him. (Cleveland Clinic for reference) I asked him flat out about many of the possible outcomes and complications and he did NOT try to sugar coat anything. He was very upfront and honest. After that I researched the research and statistics that were available regarding LASIK. Specifically I got the statistics on the procedures he had performed and the statistics of the people who had trained him. I was willing to play the odds based on what I saw.
Oh I should also mention that he warned me beforehand that my pupils were borderline on being large enough to cause problems with Night Vision.
If given the chance again I would definatly have the surgure again. I can now read the 20/20 line as if it was a book in front of my face, and the 20/15 isn't much harder. I can do better but that depends on the lighting. In bright light I feel like an Eagle. In dim light I'm still 20/20 but can notice some haze around light sources. (Still not as bad as the bluring when my glasses used to get dirty [10 minutes after washing them]).
However, I do not like driving at night any more than necessary expect in brightly lit areas. As long as I concentrate I don't notice the halos around headlights. But if I let my concentration down and my eyes start to relax it can become very distracting. (I am easily distracted however!).
Overall If you are thinking about surgury give LASIK a good strong look but be sure to do your OWN research and not take anyone else's at face value. I've seen plenty of explanations of the same statistics that are damn convincing in both directions. Get the stats yourself and make your own decesions.
--- Juggle juggle@hitesman.com