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Linus Torvalds is Turning 30, Kudos Are Rolling In
Roberth Edberg writes "The Swedish birthday congratulationlist for Linus Torvalds (creator of Linux) is increasing every minute. Will he have an world record in individual birthday congratulations? Even the Swedish Linux World site, made news about it. Why not follow the example and make lists for your own country?" Linus Torvalds is turning 30 on 28 December 1999, so start sending those greetings! Update by RM: I can be an idiot sometimes! I originally thought Linus's b-day was 10/28 & wished a "belated" congrats. 28 Oct. is um, *Bill Gates's* b-day. Thanks to all who spotted the error.
My point was that Microsoft/Bill Gates fans are a much larger herd of sheep and even more blindly follow than Linux fans do.
Sure, it is true that there are a few clueless wannabes on Slashdot that could be accurately described by your theory, but I believe they are the minority. I think most Slashdot participants who say "Bill Gates Evil, Linus Good" do so for good and well thought out reasons, not because they are just trying to be part of a group. The goofballs are just more noticeable in the Linux community than the Microsoft world because the Linux community is smaller. But for every mindless wannabe in the Linux world, it seems like there is three or four mindless wannabes in the Microsoft world. How many people out there seem to have the idea that Bill must be the second coming of Jesus just because he is rich?
Groupthink and conformity seem to be more elements of the Microsoft fans than any other group, even Mac fans.
Dont care if you like him or not but he changed the world of computing as we know it.
(for the better or worse I dont know)
My vote is definitely for worse. I can't think of anything positive that Microsoft has done for the industry. Every good thing I can think of that is attributed to them is stuff that other people did that they are taking credit for, or stuff that would have happened sooner or later (often sooner) without them.
Whatever you may think of Bill Gates, he saved the world from Apple. For that we should be thankful. Imagine what things would be like if the closed Macintosh, rather than the open PC, were the dominant hardware platform. Bill may try to monopolize software, but at least the hardware is competitive.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
You are thanking Bill for something he doesn't deserve credit for. There is no way that the closed Mac would have become the dominant hardware platform. Apple wasn't always closed, the Apple II family was as open if not more open than the PC (it came with schematics and disassembly listings of the monitor ROM). The PC would have taken off (if for no other reason than it came from IBM) with or without Bill. Hardware will only be competitive as long as Microsoft is not a major player. They are already into input devices and a few other bits of the hardware business, how long do you think it will be before an unchecked Microsoft decides they want a bigger piece of the pie? As for competitiveness, before Microsoft forged the big Wintel alliance, there were many different competitive architectures (all the 8-bit systems, Mac, Amiga, Atari ST, etc). There is less real competitiveness in a lot of ways in the hardware world now than before Microsoft. In some ways it is a danger that we have essentially put all of our eggs into the "IBM PC clone" architecture basket. There are some parts of the PC architecture that we are more or less stuck with that are painfully klunky.
So did the IBM PC. The schematics and the source code (in Assembly language) for the BIOS is provided in the Technical Reference Manual, which anybody could purchase.
I did say "as open if not more". The difference is those things were included with the Apple II, and extra cost on the IBM PC. The other difference is that Apple did all of this 4 or 5 years before IBM did. Of course by the mid 80's neither company was offering such things, first not for free, later not at all.
So, where's the source code listing for the Macintosh ROMs?
Where was the source code listing for the PS/2 ROMs or the schematics for the MCA bus?
I'm not saying Apple was right either, but you can't blame Apple solely as the only company that tried to close things down around that time.
I think its also worth noting that in many ways, Apple's reluctance to open up the Mac has ensured that it will never be more than a niche player in the market, and IBM's attempt to close the PC architecture with the PS/2 resulted in them losing their mantle of leadership in the PC hardware market.
Closed hardware will do itself in with or without Bill Gates. There is no real evidence that he is really a big supporter of open hardware. Microsoft has always been one of the leading software suppliers for the closed Mac platforms, and Microsoft never developed products for some systems that are were probably more open than the Mac at the time (like the Atari ST or Amiga, for example).
Frankly, I believe that the primary reason that Gates suggested that IBM build a hardware architecture as open as the IBM PC was because he was copying the sucessful formula of the Apple II and S-100 based CP/M machines, not because he was ideologically in favor of open systems.
My whole point is that the poster who suggested we should thank Bill Gates for saving us from Apple was way off track. Not only did we not need saving because I believe that closed systems will do themselves in eventually, but then Microsoft helped keep the Mac around by developing software for it.
Your still missing my point. Linux is still a techy OS. Ask the average desktop user to install it. I don't think so.
Ask the average user to install Windows 95 or 98. Most of them can't do it. Hell, most of the people I work with in IT have a hard time getting it installed so it works right. If it weren't for pre-loads most Windows users would be lost.
That being said, the recent Linux distributions like Mandrake 6.0, Red Hat 6.1 and Caldera 2.3 are about on par with Windows 9x in difficulty. Complete idiots or those with wacky hardware may still have troubles, but I know quite a number of people who I wouldn't consider to be *nix knowledgeable that have been able to sucessfully get Linux installed.
The only OS I know of that is more or less idiot proof for installs is MacOS, and that is really only possible because of Apple's tight-fisted control of the hardware, which many people on this thread have (mostly rightly) assailed.
Besides that, by your logic, NT certainly wouldn't be considered a valid operating system, since most users couldn't get it installed correctly either.
It's still not a viable replacement for Windows( However, I wish it was)
Well, your milage may vary, but there is nothing I find missing from Linux. For me it is Windows that couldn't be a viable replacement for Linux. You have a lot of complaints, but not a lot of useful suggestions as to what needs to be done to correct your supposed deficiencies in Linux. You aren't even very specific about what your complaints are beyond the rather tired installation gripe.
I don't want to hear all the Linux sheep bleating about how Linux has will replace Windows. DON'T TELL ME. SHOW ME!
Well, I really don't care if you don't want to hear it or not. If you don't, then you don't have to read Slashdot.
At any rate, show me where I said that Linux will replace Windows? Although it is certainly more than capable of doing that for me, that isn't even what it replaced in my case. For me it replaced the Apple II and Mac machines I had. I built my first Linux box out of cast-off components and never had or used Windows on it. Neither MS-DOS nor Windows have ever been a primary platform for me. My only exposure to them has been at work where I spend most of my time working on commercial *nixes. I spend at most 10% of my time working in the Windows world, and that results in 90% of the frustration in my work.
Until you can provide me with a more interesting argument, I should say "I'm tired of the Microsoft sheep bleating that Linux can't possibly be viable for anyone anywhere". Give me a break. Your whine is as annoying if not more than the one you complain about. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem, and I don't see you offering any answers.
Have I struck a nerve?
Not really. I've been involved in plenty of active debates over the years and I'm not even mildly perturbed yet.
You went from debating the pros/cons of operating systems to a direct attack on me.
Direct attack? You haven't seen an attack. I believe I've been nothing less than civil. You must be mistaking criticism of your unimaginative debating style and lack of details as a personal attack.
You believe Linux is a valid replacement,
I said it is a valid replacement for me. I didn't ever say it was a valid replacement for everyone. However, I don't think that my needs are that much different than a lot of other people. I challenged you to elaborate on why you think Linux isn't valid. I still haven't heard any reasons.
I happen to believe it hasn't reach that level yet.
And my point is that you make that statement in a very vague way that isn't adding much to the discussion. You haven't given any details as to why you think that.
Having said that, I am not a MS lover.
Even if not, you are certainly acting like a Microsoft apologist. Microsoft are big boys, why do they need you to defend them? They've got all kinds of lawyers and money to buy advertising and pay spokesmen.
Please tell me why my opinion is less valid than yours?
Please show me where I said your opinion isn't valid. Asking you to explain why you have that opinion is a totally different thing, and perfectly acceptable in a constructive, civil discussion. If your opinion is valid, then elaborate on it, and it should stand on its own.
If all you can do is attack me because I disagree with you, that only confirms my previous statement about the no questions asked beliefs of some Linux followers.
You talk about no questions asked beliefs. I've asked the questions, it seems like it is you who are not answering. Frankly I believe you have a right to your opinion, and I've never said otherwise. I just don't have to agree with it unless you can provide some sort of substantive and credible argument in favor of it.
As for who was the first to be on the offensive with attack strategies, I think you are accusing me of it while you were the original perpetrator (trying to stereotype all Slashdot and/or Linux users as sheep).
don't speak swedish, but all that points to december 28-- not october. Silly slashdot!
If Windows was adequate for running a computer, Linus probably would have just used that, rather than write his own OS.
So, in a way, we do have Bill Gates to thank for his small contribution to Linux!
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Yes Dan, Linus will have your baby!
ROFLMAO!
Lemme put it this way, AC:
Good: Linus's Birthday.
Evil: Th is Photograph.
Any questions?
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Show me where it says I hate them. What I said is that their accomplishments are highly overrated. Even if I do hate Bill Gates, why would that make me some kind of bad person who would hate puppies? Frankly, Bill just isn't the sort that I would equate with a puppy, in fact I can't think of any animal that I would disrespect by comparing them with Bill. Animals live by instinct, while it is obvious that all of Bill's actions are strictly intentional. I really don't personally hate Bill Gates. I hate what he does. I don't know him personally, but from what I've seen he doesn't seem like a very nice person. If Bill would turn things around and act in a manner that was ethical, I would be willing to change my opinions.
As for impartiality, I don't think anyone ever promised that from Slashdot. I don't know how you could judge against Slashdot for that given that you certainly can't expect impartiality from Microsoft either. I don't see much evidence that the Slashdot community on the whole makes any pretense that it is anything other than mostly pro-Linux (and *BSD and *nix in general) and mostly anti-Microsoft.
a whole lot of out of context quotes deleted Quote number (1) and (2) seem to indicate a company practicing good business sense. Up to a point. Isn't this the goal of the free market place, to expand and grow? But it needs to be done within the bounds of ethics and legality. Microsoft doesn't know when to quit. They play hardball even when it isn't necessary. In the long run this may come back to haunt them. It is not a coincidence that they have made a lot of enemies and engendered resentment within a lot of people. Microsoft has only themselves to blame for most of the anti-Microsoft backlash we are seeing these days. Isn't this what Linux wants, "A bigger piece of the pie"? Microsoft is hated for doing this. Linux is praised for doing the same.I don't understand? The difference being that Linux can't and doesn't use unethical and/or tactics in order to grow its marketshare. Linux is growing because it works, it works well, and people like it. Quoted # (3) and (4) really require much explanation."Bill needs to repent for his sins" Get real. I assume you are "sin free"? Don't be silly, of course not, however, my sins don't have a negative impact on millions of people. If they did I might behave even more more ethically than I do. That being said, I think if judged on the same set of rules as Bill, that I have little to be ashamed of. Unlike Bill and his 'aw shucks, I am just a nerd' act, I have never made any claims that I am a nice guy. Pure and simple MS bashing by a Linux Zealot. Your arguments could just as easily be summed up as pure and simple bashing my a Microsoft apologist. Microsoft are big boys, why do you think they need you to defend them? Linux has nobody but us little guys -- the users. Without people like us, companies like IBM, Netscape, Corel, etc., would never have heard of Linux.
"Even if not, you are certainly acting like a Microsoft apologist." Certainly not. I just don't agree with the mentality that if you're not with me, you must be against me. I don't MS bash just because it's the fashionable thing to do.
Neither do I. I was critical of Microsoft way before it ever became fashionable. For that matter, in most of the world it isn't.
It seems that a large percentage, no I didn't do a study to get the exact percent, of S.D. readers bash just for bashing sake. I've read alot of incredibly stupid comments, especially on the favoured split-up of MS, posted on S.D. lately.
Go to other forums with a more pro-Microsoft slant, and you can read an equally large and stupid number of comments going the other direction. As I've said before, if Microsoft was to suddenly turn around and start operating in an ethical manner, most of my complaints against them would be gone. I used to be a very vocal anti-IBMer due to them practicing many of the same tactics during the 70s and 80s as Microsoft does now. IBM has made a lot of progress in turning their ship around over the past few years, and my criticisms of them have diminished significantly. I still am somewhat wary about them though, but that will diminish as time goes on if they keep going the same way they have.
Having grown-up with MS, a hint of my age,
Oh please, you make me sound like I was as old as the dinosaurs. I'm probably not that much older than you are, but perhaps I started paying attention to the computer market at an earlier age or have studied up more on the industries history or something.
I've watched the MS opinion go from one similar to Linus to one of utter disdain.
Don't you wonder why that is? Microsoft has nobody but themselves to blame for that. Back in the old days (pre-1981), they were fairly small, and didn't have that much influence. Digital Research's CP/M filled the market niche that MS-DOS and Windows fill now. IBM wasn't even in the PC market. Most of Microsoft's revenue came from royalties on the BASIC interpreter in the ROM of the Apple II and Commodore 8-bit machines and for BASIC interpreter software sold as an add-on to CP/M.
People's opinions about Microsoft would be far different if they really were the benevolent organization that their PR spin machine would have everyone else believe. If they really did just want to innovate and if they were content to win market share just by building good products and doing a good job of marketing them. If they didn't stab their partners in the back and run roughshod over any upstarts that work hard to carve out a new niche in the business.
At any rate, even in the late 70's Gates was not always making a lot of friends. Many in the computer community back then considered him somewhat of a crybaby due to the way he complained about people pirating paper-tape copies of BASIC.
I wonder what public opinion will be of Linus if/when Linux takes off and becomes the OS of Choice.
That is totally up to what Linus does. So far Linus has managed to stay very down-to-earth. As I've said before, I wouldn't rush to appoint Linus to sainthood, but I see no evidence that he is suddenly going to turn into a ruthless megalomaniac bent on forcing every competitor in any remotely related enterprise out of business.
Interesting conjecture.
Only time will tell.
Having said that, Happy Birthday, Linus, whenever it is.
Hey, just realised. I'm almost the same age as Linus. Goes to show the difference being brilliant (as with Linus) makes.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The Linux reboot() system call takes some special magic parameters. The second one needs to be one of LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2, LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2A, or LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC2B. These values are respectively 672274793, 85072278, and 369367448. So I think Linux's 30th birthday is in December. Consider it a little easter egg in the kernel source :)
Microsoft is already marketing keyboards and mice. In the 80's they marketed a Z80 plug in card for the Apple II. Microsoft has so far only dabbled a little in hardware, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them delve in further if they thought that it would get them further ahead.
In general though, their mode of operation is to use their monopoly power to twist the arms of the hardware vendors to get their way without having to directly deal with hardware sales.
The Doctor said this would happen if you stopped taking your medication.
Fucking hologram.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Bill Gates Evil Linus Good That's slashdot's mentality. Period
So your attitude is Bill Gates Good, Linux Evil? I can only judge these two people by what I can see of their actions. The things I see Bill Gates do don't seem good, and I see no evidence that Linus has ever done anything bad. I'm not saying that it is time to appoint Linux for sainthood or anything, but who can dispute the fact that Bill needs to repent of his sins?
It sickens me to see everyone following this OS with such blind faith.
Blind faith? When I first tried Linux back in 1993 I was quite skeptical. But even at 0.99pl7 it showed incredible promise. If Linux does somehow fall, I can always switch to *BSD, or, since I have the source code, I can fix it myself (not just figuratively). Why do most of us have such enthusiasm for Linux? It works. It works well. It lets me do things with a cheap PC that I couldn't afford to do any other way. It smooths over the incredibly ugly PC architecture into something that works like the high end workstations we covet.
If, and only if, in five years time, Linux is still around and formalized into a legitimate operating system, I will stand in Times Square and appologize in my most loudest voice.
Linux has been serving me well for more than 6 years now. It has already formalized into a legitimate operating system. What do you think needs to happen over the next five years to change your mind?
Dear Linus:
Happy Birthday, Linus. You rule. You knew that. Yet, somehow, you're the most down to earth person the computer industry has ever deigned with fame.
In a world of saccharine sweet commercialized PR drones, your normality makes you possibly one of the few true role models for all of us--children, students, professionals, people.
You don't need to save the world to be a role model. You've changed it, for the better, and yet stayed the humble and decent person you were before the experience.
You also know how to party. So stop reading this post and go enjoy your birthday. We've enjoyed you.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
P.S.: For all those who aren't here to wish you a happy b-day:
Joyeux Anniversaire À Vous, Linus!
Alles Gute zum Geburtstag, Linus!
Compleanno Felice A Voi, Linus!
Aniversário Feliz A Você, Linus!
Feliz Cumpleaños A Usted, Linus!
Babelfish is one wonderful what, Linus!