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LinuxWorld article about FreeBSDCon
wozz (a frequent contributor of BSD news) writes "There's nice summary of FreeBSD Con
in this LinuxWorld article." This is not the first FreeBSD-friendly article LinuxWorld have run, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
They're doing no such thing. One of their co-founders (David Filo) said that a company starting out today might consider Linux instead of FreeBSD, since it has more momentum at the moment. But he went on to say that he was quite happy with FreeBSD, in part because of the large amount of onsite experience Yahoo has with it. Doesn't sound like they're changing any time soon.
FreeBSD has a somewhat simpler kernel interface, closer to the original Research Unix kernels than Linux. Linux tends to be closer to System V. The virtual memory systems and network stacks are quite different; IMHO the VM system in FreeBSD is better than Linux's (both in terms of capability and performance), and the TCP/IP stack seems to perform better when supporting HTTP service, though this in part depends upon whose benchmarks you believe. FreeBSD has fewer device drivers, though the ones it has tend to be solid (as are many, but hardly all, of Linux's). The Berkeley FFS seems much less prone to damage than Linux's EXT2 FS, though it can be slower in some cases. Recent Linuxes do SMP better than FreeBSD, and Linux threads actually work. Linux supports a lot more hardware platforms (although other porting efforts are underway, FreeBSD really only runs on Intel and Alpha). There are more applications--both free and commercial--for Linux.
(I could go on, but you get the idea.)
There is no clear "superior" OS. A lot of the controvery is over religious issues--the real answer is to choose the system that is best for a particular application.
I think having Taco recipes on Slashdot would definitely be cool.
--
Everything I know in life I learnt from
I checked, and I couldn't find specs for any other product.. but likely missed them. They support a good number of platforms.
System Requirements
Traffic Server is built on standard hardware and system software, reducing the cost of ownership and enabling you to fully leverage advances in hardware and software technology as they are introduced.
For All Platforms:
Disks for Cache - 6 to 8 disks, formatted in raw disk partitions Network Interface - 100 MB Ethernet or FDDI
For Sun Solaris:
Hardware - Sun Ultra SPARC with 256 MB RAM
Operating System - Solaris(tm) 2.6 and Solaris 7
For Compaq UNIX:
Hardware- Digital Alpha/OSF server with 256 MB RAM
Operating System - Digital UNIX 4.0D (Compaq Tru64 Unix)
For SGI IRIX:
Hardware - SGI Origin Servers with 256 MB RAM
perating System - IRIX 6.5
For FreeBSD:
Hardware - Any Pentium(r)-based system or equivalent
Operating System - FreeBSD 3.1 with Linux Threads Port Installed
For Windows NT:
Hardware - Any Pentium(r)-based system or equivalent
Operating System - Windows NT 4.0
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
I think Inktomi, the search engine that powers hotbot and others runs on the hardware I described. I think they have two of the NOW's now. Their products may run on other hardware, you seem to have done the research.
Its an interesting design, and I like it . . . kind of beowulfy
-- Reverend Vryl
Okay, I admit it. Talking about the FreeBSD convention is a sensitive issue. When I was 9 years old this huge daemon appeared at the foot of my bed and told me that "I would do something no geek has ever done before". I thought I did that when I drank 3 cases of mtn dew and coded for 4 days straight without sleep. Of course, I've been debugging it ever since, but that's not the point. Now I know what my true destiny is.... I must install FreeBSD on my system. If I `make` it, they will come....
--
It's good that we can back up each other. I have never used FreeBSD, but I am sure it's a good operatinsystem. I think it cold be fine if we (Linux users) and FreeBSD users can cooperate more.
Actually, a geek-recipies section of Slashdot would be pretty cool. Malda, what do you think?
How about a sushi bar directory and rating page?
"I am thinkink it's about that time again..."-UF
Now, this may be a stupid thing to ask (this is not meant to be flamebait), but why is a publication called "LinuxWorld" covering BSD events? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great the FreeBSD is getting more exposure, I just find it odd that Linux related websites are covering non-Linux things. Are we going to see Linux kernel updates on www.freebsd.org soon? Am I going to find articles about hang gliding on Segfault? Will Slashdot be showing recipes for chicken wings?
--
Everything I know in life I learnt from
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by cross compiling (user apps or the kernel or something totally different), but there are more and more apps being developed that use Linux specific system calls when other perfectly good Unix calls exist. That means that it's harder to port those apps to any of the BSDs. Many Gnome apps do this, but there are certainly others.
Unfortunantly for FreeBSD, a bunch of hackers wrote an OS is a much more compelling story than a bunch of pros released their source code.
:-)
so a professional programmer isn't a hacker? I thought the best programmers and such would be, not the 14 year old down the block who plays half life all day and asks what those ugly slots in my computer (5.25") are... wonder if any know of dos (the OS!)
However, like the GNU/Linux controversy, most FreeBSD/Linux boxes are largely made up of GNU software to complete the set, or other open source projects. Until recently, there were no relavent commercial applications.
Nope. RMS has said he only wanted GNU/Linux, not GNU/xBSD. The reason is because a basic install of linux reqires GNU tools (because linux is only a kernel). BSD has many of its own tools, ie shells, editors, etc. For ease of use, GNU tools (ie, lscolor, gcc) are provided. Oh, and there have been many comcercial applications for both Linux and BSD for a while.. just more and more coming. The Inkomia (sp?) search engine that Yahoo uses I assume is on FreeBSD machines..
FreeBSD/Linux should compete at being thebest free OS to run the free tools and applications, and we'll see whether the hacker approach or the BSD approach wins.
wrong. FreeBSD is targetting server / workstations, Linux is tarketting everything you can think of, which means its very general and has no single goal, except maybe Linus's which was a cheap UNIX for his desktop. FreeBSD and Linux can live happily as long as they don't try to kill the other off.
Who knows, maybe we'll see a BSD-based Mac Client base dominate the pc market, linux-based Internet appliances take the rest of the former PC market, and Linux and the BSDs and Linux face off in the server market, each server their niche...
Well, obviousely we'll see MacOS X (bsd).. and NetBSD has a Mac port, as likely OpenBSD does. I don't think Linux should try to prove its better than everyone else, because if Linux is to be the best in the server market, then its going to neglect the imbedded, unless you imagine a tremendious amount of labor (and thus, likely forks to improve on the desired platform). FreeBSD has a lot of Internet/networking applications. BSD is pretty popular with small startups making networking programs/servers.. where as Linux's popularity is only recently there, and just to capitalize from the media attention.
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
heh, yep. I probably should have given a better example than gcc.. since there's not a replacement of a BSD version (at least to my knowledge). Still, the overall point is BSD is not tied to FSF and GPL programs, as RMS states on FSF.org.
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
Sure it causes great stuff to be done. but it also places pressure on an opeerating system. Pressure that results in deadlines. Pressure that results in sloppy code. Is this a good idea? No. Its what makes FreeBSD better than linux. Flames away!
I'm really glad BSDs are getting more exposure lately. Not because I'm a BSD weenie from way back or anything... actually, I think the only BSDish system I've ever been on would be SunOS 4.x.
No, I'm glad because biological diversity is good, and cross-pollination have always proven fruitful. In recent days, I've seen a lot about OpenBSD, for instance. Based on that, I've decided to give it a try on a spare box here, and see if it's rock-solid security claims are met. I expect that to not even be an issue though -- the work and testimonials already have me convinced of that.
Viva open-source! Let a thousand OS's bloom!
(now we just need more articles about even stranger things like Eros, OS's and programs that aren't even on people's radar yet. I hope all the grad students out there working on cool stuff be sure to submit their thesis to Slashdot )
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
Linux kernel source is easier to read. Nobody is
/bin is not a symlink to /usr/bin. /sbin, and /opt.
afraid to throw away a piece of history, so the
old cruft gets removed as needed. This includes
function and macro names, source code directories,
header files, etc. FreeBSD has to keep the cruft
to stay compatible with the old BSD books and
related *BSD operating systems.
FreeBSD is strongly tied to UNIX-like filesystems,
especially UFS and NFS. Linux tends to do a bit
better with non-traditional filesystems.
At the disk level, Linux has almost the same
filesystem layout as FreeBSD does. This is
because the Linux developers saw a good design
and stole it. (there are 3 much better designs
that Linux will have within a year or two --
remember the bit about non-traditional filesystems
working well with Linux)
Considering the directory layout, Linux is a
bit more like commercial UNIX systems. One
obvious flaw:
(but FreeBSD has the flaw too) Linux uses a
/var,
FreeBSD can outperform Linux on an overloaded
system, but overloaded systems are still bad.
If it hurts, don't do it. Linux is much faster
on reasonable hardware. Linux is also much better
at using multiple processors. Newer versions of
Linux have special accelerator code for web
serving, including a kernel web server.
There is little practical security difference.
If you care to tweak your system with patches
and other adjustments, Linux can give you
encrypted partitions including swap space.
Linux has more advanced firewall support, but
you are not likely to need the advanced stuff.
FreeBSD is interesting, because to an end-user, it is a similar option to Linux. The key difference that I can see, is that FreeBSD has a more "professional" background and Linux has the "hacker community" background.
Unfortunantly for FreeBSD, a bunch of hackers wrote an OS is a much more compelling story than a bunch of pros released their source code.
However, like the GNU/Linux controversy, most FreeBSD/Linux boxes are largely made up of GNU software to complete the set, or other open source projects. Until recently, there were no relavent commercial applications.
FreeBSD/Linux should compete at being the best free OS to run the free tools and applications, and we'll see whether the hacker approach or the BSD approach wins. Ironically, FreeBSD seems to be getting more hacker support as Linux goes maintstream, and Linux is picking up corporate/professional programming from the Red Hat IPO and other stuff.
I think that as long as FreeBSD makes cross compiling trivial, there is no reason for FreeBSD and Linux to not fill different niches based on what you need out of your kernel.
I'm glad to see FreeBSD get publicity. A world in which only Linux existed would be horrible. Despite what most people say here, a Linux monopoly would encourage sitting on our laurels... The "we can beat Microsoft" and "us vs. the world" mentalities are what is fueling the constand innovation that we are seeing...
Who knows, maybe we'll see a BSD-based Mac Client base dominate the pc market, linux-based Internet appliances take the rest of the former PC market, and Linux and the BSDs and Linux face off in the server market, each server their niche...
Kinda of ironic that we keep going back to this older model, huh? (Not that modern UNIX designs resemble the old onesin anything but the interface anyway)... Maybe the researchers actually got something write...
We just gotta ditch the old school interface idea... you know, where the user interface is designed to hurt the user...
Alex
M.C.S.E. trying to pick up Linux as fast as I can... but I've been trying for years, so words of encouragement are a plus
With regard to filesystems, EXT2FS has problems with reliability and arbitrary limitations (e.g. file size). Prior to soft updates for FFS, EXT2FS had a considerable speed advantage, simply because it uses asynchronous writes for metadata (the price is EXT2FS's lack of reliability).
With soft updates, FFS is generally as fast as, or faster than, EXT2FS, while remaining reliable (soft updates uses ordered asynchronous metadata writes, preventing corruption of the sort that plagues EXT2FS). There are exceptions, such as untarring a file with a lot of empty directories, but this is a philosophical difference. FFS spreads the directories across the partition, increasing the likelihood that files and subdirectories can be stored near the directory in which they reside. This arguably provides better performance in the common case (accessing the contents of a directory), but there's a hit when you initially create a lot of directories.
As to performance, I've found it to be about the same when the system is under a light load, but Linux's VM system tends to sputter under a heavy load, where as FreeBSD's degrades smoothly as the load increases. On the whole, unless you're using SMP (Linux wins), or a heavily-loaded system (FreeBSD wins), performance is about the same.
Directory-tree layout is another area where FreeBSD shines. FreeBSD uses a standard BSD layout (which a lot of us are familiar with), where as there is no standard layout on Linux (various distributions use various layouts, which are more or less BSD-ish or SysV-ish). I understand Linux is working towards a single layout for the various distributions, which would be a big improvement. A well-designed layout will probably be better than the current BSD layout, which is rather old (which isn't to say the BSD groups can't upgrade their standard layout).
Linux is much better at SMP, though both are a bit crap compared to commercial UNIX or NT. The SMP version of Apple's Darwin OS may be interesting in this area, since it's based on Mach (which makes it easier to introduce very-fine-grained locks). For now, the best bet for solid SMP on a PC is probably NT (Solaris hasn't got much x86 support), but Linux is definitely ahead of any *BSD.
Security is probably a wash. Linux may be less secure since it's commoner, hence more people are aware of its weaknesses. In any case, security has more to do with how a system is configured than with the underlying system software itself.
Lastly, some of us find FreeBSD's code easier to read, and actually like having solid documentation in well-written textbooks.
A question for the experts: What are the essential differences between FreeBSD and Linux? I mean in terms of kernel architecture, filesystem layout, performance, security. We've duly noted that Yahoo runs on FreeBSD, and are considering switching. Thanks\ac
If there is one thing Linux has done better than any BSD, it is marketing. There are more Linux books/cd's/posters/publications that probably all of the BSD's combined. Regardless of your opinions of the operating systems themselves, this is of huge importance for gaining support going forward.
It saddens me that the BSD community gets some of it's best press from Linux publications. I am a BSD person at heart, and I wish we could generate more of our own publicity.
NB: For the humor impared, the only comparason the subject should imply is that both have found ways to market themselves that make consumers aware of their existance.
1) Why are there i386/m68k/whatever drivers in the /usr/src/linux/drivers/? Shouldn't they reside in the /usr/src/linuc/arch/i386/drivers directory? Huh?
2) Many of the drivers are really shitty written. Look at the crystal8x00.c file. It's full of i386 specific outp()/inp()'s, statements like:
if ( 0x89 == inpb(0x12) ) // EISA machine?
Man, that's ugly. Code like that would be Bruce-ified instantly.
Read the code before you comment on it next time.
-T
Will Slashdot be showing recipes for chicken wings?
/. , /. tells us what's going on in that world outside our own front door. /. can be the geek's answer to "get a life.." /. can tell us what to wear, who's the latest cool open source guy to listen to, what's good on tv, what to eat, how to think, and basically be big bro in real life! Sweet..
<humor>
Hey, a recipes section would be a great idea! Especially for all us bachelor geeks who can't cook and barely feed ourselves.. (I sadly fall into this category..)
Come on Taco! It's genius! Really!
Since we spend all day surfing
Maybe if you work it right, you can call it a cult and claim huge tax breaks!
</humor>
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I seem to recall from previous research that they are dual processor/dual mirror hard-drive sun sparcs, so I assume sunos/solaris.
-- Reverend Vryl