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More Info on Matrix Sequels
Mowser X writes "IGN.com has some more
interesting news on the status of the sequels to The Matrix. Apparently, the next two movies will pick up right where the first one ended, with part of the movie taking place in Zion. " Neo, Morpheus and Trinity have also been signed, or are just about finished signing as well - and it still sounds like the brothers want to release back to back.
The *only* part you disliked was him flying off at the end? I'm suprised. The Matrix used comic-book cliche heavily, and usually if you dont' like one cliche you won't like any of them.
Personally, I *like* a well-played cliche -- but IMO it's never enough to hold up a movie on its own. It adds (or subtracts) nothing to my evaluation of the movie.
Matrix held up well because it had a strong plot with unique elements.
I agree that maintaining the qualities of the original is going to be very hard. For one thing, they're going to have to drop the whole "ignorant audience" assumption.
All we can do is hope...
-Billy
People, you are looking way to deep into this movie....You are going way beneath the plot and dredging out your own crap!
:)
Maybe so... but there certainly are a lot of consistancies, you have to admit that.
"THE ONE" had come again... remember the prophesies in the movie?
He came back from the dead.
He is saving the righteous.
Hell, I am not even Christian and I can see numerous allusions... I do not think they were merely a coincidence. Someone pointed out above that you can take the movie at face value, or choose to see more.
I think Hucklebury Finn was more than a great story
The first movie ended with Neo *flying*.
I think that the new movies will blow just for the simple fact that what made the first movie fun was Neo starting just like any hacker.. and becoming a god.
The next movie will start with him as a god. Uhm, where to next?
And, of course, there will be lots of frivolous sex. Because they *can*. I mean, trinity already LOVES Neo..
Oh boy.
Then again, there were other damn good sequels out there.. Aliens comes to mind. [I don't consider the 4th movie part of the series.. it was blatant marketing and vomit-inducing trash.]
--
rJames.org - illustration
I think they really need to do the story the right way, or they will completely kill the storyline. If they simply become "superhero's killing the badguys", the movie will suck beyond belief.
I'd like to see the 'puters start to find ways to fight him beside's trying to fry his brian. How's about throw those millions of people in absolute torment, instead of their 'nice little world'. If they try to continue the movie using the exact same storyline, it will REALLY suck, but I'm expecting ythem to throw some loops in there, with the first movie being so damned good..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Or something like that.
Since your UID is smaller than mine, I can only conclude that you're trolling. -s20451 (410424)
I think that a sequel to The Matrix would be like making a sequel to The Blair Witch Project. Both movies get a good portion of their oomph from being fairly original, something that a sequel simply could not have just because it would be, well, a sequel. A good part of The Matrix's appeal to me is that it presented strangeness and mystery which was slowly revealed throughout the movie. But at the end there isn't much left for a sequel to work on. This means that a sequel would have to build itself on other elements. To be blunt about it, I don't believe the basic plot and idea is enough to carry a movie. It would become a movie about guns and funky slow-motion tricks, much more so than the original. I have no doubts that such a movie would probably still rake in the cash at a fairly good rate, but I don't think I would personally like it.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
A sequel to Matrix? That was my initial reaction. Then I took to the reading of the article and discovered that unlike most sequels, this one will be done by the same guys who breathed life into the first one.
True, I am both excited and scared. That someone has guts to continue the storyline, is a brave deed. If done right, it may yet prove to be the ultimate movie experience. If screwed up, we could have another set of Jaws or Rocky-pictures. I truly hope the brothers are putting all they have into this.
It would truely be a shame to have Matrix raped just to make some quick buck. Hollywood should by now have the understanding that crappy sequels will not bring in the cash they want. Or maybe I'm just a bit too optimistic in this?
Let's hope the storyline has the potential to carry the oncoming sequels. And pray that Wachowskis are not just doing this out of greed.
There is no such thing as good luck. There is only misfortune and its occasional absence.
I've seen 4 or 5 different versions, and none of them do a good job of duplicating the screens in the movie. Something where the falling columns go at different speeds would be great.
Anyone know if a good reproduction of the effect exists somewhere?
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
In my opinion "The Matrix" was conceived as a trilogy from the beginning, and that means, that the authors created a longer story - and we have seen only the first part of it. Whatever rumors there might be about Wachowski brother thinking about this or that[4], methinks the story is already there, and what we saw in the first part will fit in the second
By the way: I am not a fanatic Matrix advocate - in my opinion, the basic message, the idea and so on have been already described hundreds of times, and in a much deeper way - stories by P.K.D. or Stanislaw Lem[5], for example. However, Matrix was a very good movie - the first one to touch this subject with so much expression, so much esthetics, and so deeply. IMO, of course.
Regards,
January
[1]The Matrix - screenplay
[2]The MATRIX FAQ
[3]Oracle Turing Machine
[4]Matrix 2 rumors
[5]A very good site on Lem
The Matrix absolutely was supposed to be a deep film. Consider:
I'm not talking about "maybe they were sort of refering to a Messiah." These are concrete literary references to Anagrams, Greek Mythology, Old Testament Bible references, modern Christian Theology, and even Lewis Carrol. The Matrix is absolutely a well thought out literary piece.
You're supposed to plug your brain into it for two hours and enjoy old fashioned mayhem. Not everything has to have literary depth in order to be a good movie.
I don't think you're "supposed" to do anything when watching the movie except enjoy it. If you enjoy all the ass kicking action, that's great. If you enjoy the deep literary references and well constructed plot, that's great too. There's certainly nothing wrong with enjoy the movie on a higher level. That higher level was absolutely intended by the directors.
And no, not everything needs literary depth to be a good movie. The Matrix is a good movie even without that depth. But the presence of that depth is what makes The Matrix a great movie.
-Ted
Yep, I can see that this movie would be tough to extend into a trilogy. Actually, the only part of the movie I disliked was Neo flying off at the end. It was just silly.
I suppose that there is potential for interesting stories or characters in Zion, but I'm doubtful. I think it will be very easy for this movie to go from geek/cult (and amazingly mainstream... I was surprised) to lame/formula (and stay mainstream popular, but lose the geek/cult appeal).
I think the most worrisome announcement in the article was the "super powers"... that sounds silly. I thought that the coolest part of the matrix was the story of a hacker completely and totally hacking his world/the system... (and the initial clash of realities). I think those qualities might be hard to maintain.
---
I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
And now for the promised Better Idea:
Neo's a superman. So, potentially, are the other humans. Okay, fine. Most of the humans in the world are STILL at the back and call of huge AIs. If you anger them, they can eliminate VAST numbers of people without a qualm. In addition, the Matrix itself isn't evil; only the deception is evil. The obvious conclusion is that there is going to be war, followed by either total mutual destruction or a peace treaty which involves teaching everyone about the Matrix.
So, two seqels. One showing the war; the other one showing the negotiations leading to the peace. Neither one can REALLY use the sense of wonder and mystery that the original had, so unfortunately those cool cliches are going to have to go (cliches work well mainly when the overal structure of the movie is a mystery).
I would say that the draw of the middle movie should be conflict (of course). Lots of it. Strategy. Infighting (very little, but on both sides).
The draw of the final movie should be high strategy, politics, and so on. Think of Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", with Neo playing the part of Mycroft/Mike/Adam.
In both movies Neo should play a bit part, because Keanu doesn't have the acting range to handle such things. the focus should be on humanity freeing itself, not on Superman freeing them (although, of course, he should do just that, in many exciting scenes).
I'm looking forward to these, though. They *could* really screw them up (just as Peter Jackson could screw up Tolkien's LOTR), but then... Maybe they already know that.
-Billy
You might say, he'd pretty much mastered that world.
The fake world, but not the real one. The rest of the story is how Neo (et al) do the same thing again where they don't have solipsistic abilities.
Besides that, I heard a rumor that Carrie-Ann Moss will not be playing Trinity.
--
QDMerge 0.4!
how to invest, a novice's guide
I complete disagree with your statement that the Matrix is not supposed to be deep. It is very deep. No, the movie was not decidedly Christian or "anti-Christian". It also was not decidedly Buddhist or Hindu or Taoist, though it had definite influnces from each. I don't feel like giving a lession on philosophy right now, for the Hindu take on it see above for a reply to some guy talking about it refering to the second comming.
I went to see the movie several times with people from different faiths and they each made aware of different profound parts of the movie. One of my friends who is atheist appreciated it because of the existential references. He also pointed out to me, because he is a musician, that the choice of music in certain places was very purposeful.
If you're a "serious Christian" I would hope that you would at least see the themes related to your own religion and find some depth there.
Picture the following scene, if you will:
[Neo and Morphius] - whisper, whisper.
[Neo] - (click) "B-7"
[Agent Smith] - (rustling, click!) "You sank...my Squidly...Mr...Anderson"
[Neo] - (high-fives Morphius) "Dude!"
[Morphius] - "Right on!"
[Agent Smith] - "Best three...out of...five...Mr Anderson?"
Or maybe this:
Neo and Morphius land in Hell -
[Neo] - (looks around) "Dude, our O'Reilly books covers lied to us!"
Well, back to work....
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
If you think the whole premise was unbelievable, I'm afraid you aren't well clued in as to where technology is going.
;-)
The only major flights of technical fancy in The Matrix were the potty idea that humans thought they could kill off the machines by blotting out the sun, and that the machines would find humans to be a sensible alternative power source. There were quite a few general weaknesses as well, such as the whole business of the oracle and the apparent inability of the machines to trace Matrix events back to their physical location in particular humans. But those are hardly fatal weaknesses.
All in all, The Matrix is fairly down to earth, rather than unbelievable. Hugely more unbelievable things are about to hit our everyday reality in the shape of nanotech. No doubt you think that that whole area of study is unrealistic as well.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
People are just not willing to look past issues that seem important to them. Remember before the Matrix came out? Most complaints were, "Reaves? Awww man, hes going to ruin it." Reaves == Boring SurferBoy is definatly a problem, yet they used him as a stoic and soft spoken character which worked very well. If the W.Bros. could do that they can do anything.
"Duudes, maybe I can be the god of surfers in the sequel!" "Shut up Keanu." "Yes Mr. W."
But I guess that's how people felt when they heard there would be a sequel to Star Wars.
And that's exactly where The Matrix stands right now: it has the potential to spawn endless boring sequels, and it has the potential to be in the 2000's what Star Wars was in the 80's.
The key here is to make the sequel a segment which will give more depth to the story, not just give us the same old stuff we came to love in the first installment. Again, Empire Strikes Back is a good example of this. So is Terminator 2.
But you know what? I'm confident. The Wachowsky brothers are behind the next two movies, and these guys have yet to produce anything vaguely resembling crap. (I highly recommend Bound , by the same guys - killer thriller.)
So, as long as Neo's father ain't Agent Smith and Neo and Trinity aren't siblings... We should be fine. :)
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
I wonder how many caught your pun.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
So are they going to continue on with the Second Coming of Christ theme they used in the first one?
The parallels are striking.
What is the core thesis of the book? With a title like that, are they talking about super imposing your mind onto a body that you think is real but really isn't?
-Ted
I see a lot of people commenting that the Matrix was "the worst/best file they've ever seen". I think what you're seeing here is the difference between those who just want to be entertained and those who want "depth and meaning".
The thing is that Matrix is not supposed to be deep. You're supposed to plug your brain into it for two hours and enjoy old fashioned mayhem. Not everything has to have literary depth in order to be a good movie. Another good example of this "comic book" genre was Independence Day. I enjoyed it greatly.
Incidentally, the best movie I've seen lately was "The Apostle". As a fairly serious Christian, I found it decidedly realistic, and it managed to avoid being either pro or anti Christian. That was a good movie! Of course, it was pretty literary. It was all about character. My wife hates it because she can't check her brain at the door -- and I love it because I don't have to.
I watch Matrix the same times I watch Star Trek: when I want light entertainment and nothing else.
-- Slashdot sucks.
Oh man. I just installed the newest version of xscreensaver, with the xmatrix hack. I leave it running on my root window whilst I hack. Pretty damn shweet. If only it wouldn't take 90% of my CPU...
Oh, get it at http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/
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