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What to do when your Domain is Threatened?

ttyp0 writes "I am a student at Purdue University. Three years ago, I decided to purchase the domain PURDUEONLINE.COM and use it for whatever reason. Just recently my ISP received a letter from Purdue's Executive Vice President threatening legal action if I do not transfer ownership of my domain to the University's control. (More below.)

"My website offers free services to students, two of which are web based email and a student directory with full search capability yet Purdue claims that my domain infringes on the school's trademarked name. My question is, what legal rights do I have to keep my domain name? Any suggestions, or even a good lawyer whom I can call?"

Things like this make me also worry about the new cybersquatting laws that may end up putting the little-guy-with-the-neat-domain between a rock and a hard place.

ttyp0 continues: "After investigation I found that Purdue had only two names trademarked, which are "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers". I clearly state that we are not affiliated with Purdue University. There are other similar sites which use the word "Purdue" in the same fashion, such as, PURDUEPEOPLE.COM, PURDUECHAT.COM, and PURDUEDATING.COM to name a few...

38 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. Lawyers fight Lawyers by Mr.+Buckaroo · · Score: 2

    I would go out and find a good intelectual property lawyer in the area. Also, lots of laywers volunteer free legal counsel to help out students, so you could probably actually get that through your school :).

    Good luck.

    1. Re:Lawyers fight Lawyers by arthurs_sidekick · · Score: 2
      so you could probably actually get that through your school :).

      You'll have to be careful with that ... here at UNC, my understanding is that the legal aid lawyers available to students are employees of the University and hence can't initiate legal actions or, I would surmise, even give you legal advice if you're involved in legal proceedings with the university. It wouldn't be at all surprising to me if the same turned out to be true at Purdue.

      --
      "Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
  2. Let 'em sue you first by Duckie01 · · Score: 2

    I wouldn't worry about lawyers yet, maybe they're just making empty threats at this point. You can have *them* do the hard work by waiting. They'll consult a lawyer and ask 'em if they even have a case. If their lawyer doesn't think so, it saves you the work and money.

    There's no reason to worry until they sue you anyways. Once they sue you, you can start worrying about it and look for a good lawyer.

    In the meanwhile, I'd reply to them that you don't agree with them, don't think your website is infringing their trademark, that it's a free service for their students, they only benefit from your website etcetc. Just to stay polite :)

    Imho they're kinda stupid for shooting at someone who offers their customers free service.

  3. A domain name is an adress by Edwin+Oostra · · Score: 4

    In my humble opinion a domain name is an adress, it's a place where you put up your stuff. If they haven't registerd the domain (moved to that adress) I don't see why that would mean you are infringing on their trademark rights.

    If you live in a street called lawyers lane, you're not expected to be a lawyer either, are you. I'm currently living in the Goeman Borgesiuslaan, and I'm not expecting to hear from the lawyers of his heirs, even though I freely hand out cards which state I live in the street named after him.

    You moved to the adress first, you live there now. Though luck for them imho. I don't think anyone in your position has ever lost a lawsuit. But more then a few opted for a handy amount of money, that's perhaps something to consider. They don't want this lawsuit anymore then you do.

    Whatever you do, don't allow them to bluff you into giving them the domainname. It's yours, it's your adress, and you followed all the right rules to acquire it. If they want it, they'll have to do or pay whatever it is worth to you.

    --
    Beware of Wight Supremacists!
    1. Re:A domain name is an adress by Menthos · · Score: 2
      Well, I must say you're wrong ;)

      Domain name squatting was once regarded as completely appropriate, but this was more than four to five years ago or something like that, when big companies only had started looking at the internet and there was no such thing as the web boom. In those days, you could register for example compaqsux.com and no one would seem to bother. This is not the case anymore. If you own compaqsux.com, you shouldn't be surprised if you had recieved a letter from Compaq's lawyers by now. You should be surprised if you hadn't.

      Why is this? Because almost all companies nowadays treat the Web as one of their official marketing channels, and a damn' important one. They're keen to protect it. Besides, something about trademark law says that if you don't protect your trademark, you lose the right to it, i.e. you can't successfully sue people later on that use it. If Compaq was aware that compaqsux.com existed and didn't act, they would have a hard time later on stopping other domain names like that.

      So the sad thing is that domain names fall under trademark laws. They can sue you even if you registered it "first", because it was illegal of you to register and use their name in the first place.

      Street addresses are different. They often consist of people's names (but not trademarks) and these people are often dead, and the streets are given these names in honour. I think that if it was a person that recently (in less than 40 years or so) passed away, they would even have to ask the relatives or something, but I'm not sure about that.

      Disclaimer: The name Compaq and all deratives of it above was only used as examples.

      --

      GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.

  4. Ask for proof of the alleged trademark by Get+Behind+the+Mule · · Score: 2

    Why don't you write back and tell them what you've told us Slashdotters? You don't have to be comabtive about it, just tell them that you've checked for evidence that they hold such a trademark and couldn't find any. Ask them to give you a thingy with a number or something -- there's probably a technical term for that. %^) At least you'll find out whether they stand on firm ground.

  5. Re:give the domain to Purdue Chicken out of spite. by Noel+McK · · Score: 2

    The chicken company is spelled "Perdue."

  6. hehe by GC · · Score: 4

    Hey, if Sun Microsystems are the . in .com, does that mean they're going to sue us all?

    :)

  7. Material, material, material! by Ratface · · Score: 3

    I have had clients in doain battles (from both sides) a few times and it ha always been a fairly drawn out process. I would advise that you be prepared for a bit of a battle.

    The interesting thing in this particular case is that your site pertains to your adversary! However, as you have had the domain for 3 years and have been using it in a legal manner, I would say you have a good case to continue using it.

    It strikes me that the difficult situation here may be your ISP. I would recommend that you talk to them as well, outline the situation and find out what their policy is on such manners. They have less personal interest in this case and may well decide that they can no longer host your domain to avoid legal disputes. Try and convince them that you have a strong case and that it is in their interests to continue hosting the domain.

    After that, I would talk to a lawyer - hopefully someone here will have suggestions for a good lawyer with domain issue experience in the States.

    Finally, I would suggest that in my humble experience, these cases don't make it to court so very often. It's like Cease and Desist Orders, which can often be resolved out of court with little hassle, as long as both sides try and keep their heads.

    Good luck!

    --

    A little planning goes a long way...
  8. trademark infringement and dilution by Raul+Acevedo · · Score: 3
    Strictly based on the domain purdueonline.com, you are not on good legal ground. The University has a good case for trademark infringement.

    However, if other sites exist with the "Purdue" name in them, and Purdue University has not threatened or sued them, their stance is shaky. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if you have a trademark, and don't defend it uniformly, then to some degree you lose rights to it.

    Another thing to consider, which potentially weakens their stance, is other businesses which have the Purdue name, but are unrelated to Purdue University. (I'm not talking domain names, but business names outside of the Internet.) The Purdue brand for chicken comes to mind. In other words, if Purdue is associated with several well-known businesses then the University's claim to anything with "Purdue" in it is greatly weakened. Since your site deals directly with the Purdue University, I'm not sure how much this counts.

    In any case, the best advice is what's been stated by others: communicate with them and try to find an alternative. You're not on great legal ground to fight them.
    ----------

    --
    In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
  9. give up and move on by jsm2 · · Score: 3

    AC's solution is the very best deal that you could reasonably hope to get out of this. You are entirely in the right, morally speaking, and probably legally speaking too. But (this is the important bit):

    1. University administrators are nasty people. If you get in their way, they will be needlessly cruel to you.

    2. Universities have a million and one ways to fsck you up, whether or not you win in court. This website is not worth your whole rest of life.

    3. And you will always have a hard time getting any sort of support, because people will always believe their side of things -- when people don't understand the issues, they go by reputation, and Purdue has a better one than you do.

    In general, I'd advise anyone to fight like a tiger if right is on their side. But educators are such vindictive sods that I'd make an exception. Your two options are:

    1. Give 'em the name, but scorch the earth, destroy your site and let them deal with the user complaints. This will annoy them, but they'll have their name, and they won't be angry enough to hurt you.

    2. Co-operate fully, as per AC's suggestion. This way, you have to swallow some crow, but keep your site and keep your users happy.

    What I would not do is to organise any sort of student protest. This will frighten and humiliate the admins, and they will break you on a wheel in revenge.

    Of course, all this is assuming that you have some sort of life which you would like to preserve. If you're keen on fighting it out to the death, go for it, and good luck to you!

    either way, look on it as a learning experience . . .

    jsm

    1. Re:give up and move on by Mawbid · · Score: 2
      2. Universities have a million and one ways to fsck you up, whether or not you win in court. This website is not worth your whole rest of life. I hven't done many things I regret in my life. I didn't get a girl pregnant when I was 15, I didn't blow two fingers off my hand fucking around with pipe bombs, I haven't been arrested for assaulting anyone in a drunken rage a, I didn't crash my dad's car (much).

      The things I do regret all belong to the same class: caving in when I should have stood up for what I believe in. Therefore, I would urge ttyp0 to consider not only what the present looks like now, but also how it's going to look seen from the future. Are you going to be able to look back and say you did the right thing? Perhaps more importantly: will you care? It all depends on what kind of person you are.
      --

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    2. Re:give up and move on by HamNRye · · Score: 2

      I have to say that this is one of those life enriching moments, where you make concious moral decisions that will define you charachter. How important is this to you?? There is the possible cost to be absorbed in the case of a legal battle, but the same thing exists for Perdue University. And this is no small matter. The university has much more to lose in the case of a legal battle. There is the potential PR nightmare, etc...

      Who is your academic advisor?? This might be someone to talk to early on, and try to win over to your side. Especially if you're in geek school. (CS) The best thing to do would be to ask the assistance of some faculty members that would be sympathetic to your plight. They can help you get a much better grasp of the hierarchy's involved around the university, and can be a welcome angry voice. Remember, in the eyes of these administrators, you are still a "kid". They believe you to be irresponsable, etc. A mature "respected" voice would go a long way to aid in your plight.

      In the immediate future, a polite letter informing the university that you do not see where there is any trademark infringement, and that you plan to hold on to the domain for the time being would be your best course of action.

      Should the University persist, I would shop the domain around to see if Perdue Chicken, Perdue Heavy Industries, Will Perdue, A friend of yours named Perdue, or anybody else is interested in the domain. Sell it for an amount that will pay for the internic costs, and be done with it. This is known as the "Scorched Ethernet" strategy. You might raise the ire of one of the Administrators of the university, but hey, this will just prepare you for the PHB you will eventually work for.

      You have many options available to you, but I think that caving in to the administration is one that you will regret. "A life lived in fear is a life half lived."

      You have a 50/50 chance of winning a lawsuit depending on the Judge, and you could probably appeal it until the point is moot, but you will lose your sanity and your credit rating in the process.

      If nothing else, after shopping the Domain around, you could inform the university that you have an offer on the domain already, and explain that if they are going to force you to give it up, you would just as soon recoup your investment in the domain. But if it gets to this point, contact a lawyer for the wording so it does not sound like a threat. There are some technicalities involved in this. I had a similar problem with a company I used to work for, and now neither of us have the domain, and I have a better job.

      ~Jason Maggard
      "I have achieved peace in our time"
      ~Neville Chamberlain

  10. Get Medieval by jellicle · · Score: 5

    on trademark law. You need to start reading up on everything there is to know about trademarks and domain names. There's a lot of material available - I hope you have some free time to kill.

    You'll want to start with the Domain Name Rights Coalition, which has a lot of good information, including a page about your rights (more specifically, the trademark holder's rights - you have no rights) under Network Solutions' trademark policies. If you pass those tests (which I believe you do, unless Purdue has a trademark on Purdue Online which predates your domain registration), you're in much better shape - NSI won't automatically shut you down. Purdue always has the option of filing suit, you see, but under certain circumstances NSI will take action preemptively against you and you'll lose without ever entering court.

    Read your domain name registration agreement!

    Of course, Purdue's case in court is weak. It cost them almost nothing to send this demand letter; if you knuckle under, that's a nice domain name for them with almost zero expenditure. They don't have a right to possess all domain names with Purdue in them, any more than Frank-the-chicken-guy does. You aren't attempting to extort money out of them (at least I hope not), you're providing your own independent, ongoing service. You're not attempting to confuse visitors into believing that Purdue runs the site. All of these factors are important. Read up on the criteria for actually infringing someone's trademark, like I said earlier, and send the nice lawyers a letter indicating that you know your rights and stand by them. Send them a list of all the other domain names with the string "purdue" in them - there are several sites which offer wildcard domain name searching. Don't offer to sell them the domain name. If you want to sell, you must retain a lawyer for that.

    And take the time to write up some webpages about the situation and post them on purdueonline.com. Inform the school newspaper and local papers that Purdue is trying to hijack your domain name. Publicity is never a bad thing when you're in the right.

    --
    Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org

  11. I ran PurdueBUZZ. I consolidated with mrhoops.com by PurdueBUZZ · · Score: 2

    I ran PurdueBUZZ and then consolidated my content with mrhoops.com.

    One of the discussions that I have had with my three partners is that of using Purdue in the domain name.

    I'd be MOST INTERESTED to know how this turns out.

    Our take was that we didn't want to test the waters, per se.

    Drop us a line if you have updates or questions.

    F. Thorn

    --
    Go Purdue!
  12. Its BS man by ccorner · · Score: 2

    I go to purdue, and I went to check out your page. It is really nice, and your directory beats the hell out of the purdue directory(directory.purdue.edu). It just figures that they want to shut you down because you offer a few better things then they do. If it means anything, I am on your side!

    --
    Quid rides ignare?
  13. Not always a good idea. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2
    Sometimes just the threat of a lawsuit is enough to cause an ISP to cave, and that's all that matters. If your ISP cancels your web-hosting account because they got a copy of a C&D letter, you might as well pack it in and go home, because you've effectively already lost the case without it even going to court.

    It's sad, and it's unfair, and it should probably be illegal, but it happens a lot, and not just with domain names. I know of a few people myself who've had this happen to them.

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  14. This happened to me. by cruise · · Score: 2

    Something similar happened to me.

    I've written a chat software which is now called OpenVerse. When I started writing it, it was called Metaverse. But it turns out some company named SJGames owns this word (surprisingly, they only obtained a trademark for this word after the book SnowCrash was released.

    It seems SJGames CONFIGURED a mush and called is Metaverse and trademarked the name.

    So I'm happily working on my chat program when I get a letter from that company telling me I can't call it Metaverse cause they own the word.

    I was a little upset to say the least but what can I do? I'm just a lowly free software programmer and I don't have any lawyer money to protect me from them.

    I Quickly folded up Metaverse and changed the name to OpenVerse but now I worry about the next big guy to come along. What will I do then? Throw my project out the window? Fight it with no money and loose? All of these thin trademarks are really upsetting.

    There should be some merrit when it comes to trademarks. I feel that simply configuring someone elses free software and then trademarking a name based on that is pretty damn thin to me.

  15. Obvious, but... by tgd · · Score: 5

    This is kinda obvious but I think deserves saying... You wouldn't go to a lawyer website and ask their opinion on a diagnosis your doctor made and give it more than a grain of salt, so I wouldn't in this case either.

    Don't trust that they don't have a case because people on here tell you they don't, the best advice anyone can give in a case like this is one that was already given. Ask a lawyer (not a nerd ;) ) if the case may have merit. If it might, and you don't want to deal with the hassle, compromise or give up the domain. If the case likely has no merit, then wait until they sue you and have the lawyer deal with it.

    One thing worth saying though, is that if you decide to wait until they sue you knowing they have a case and assuming you'll give up the domain and things will be fine at that point, you should be aware that the offer to return the domain from you is not sufficient to force them to withdraw the lawsuit, and they can choose to continue it to a court case if they want.

    There are very few rules preventing malicious lawsuits here in the U.S.

  16. Cease & Desist letters, or your website & the law by rootrot · · Score: 2
    As I still have a law license kicking around I must say, none of the following is legal advice. For definitive advice, seek counsel in your area. That said:

    Have your cease and desist letter framed and keep it as a lasting memento/badge of greatness. I have several of them and frame each new one. Perhaps a personal thing, but I do see them as a sign of the site gaining...er...notice.

    In the shortterm I would do nothing more than writing a very gentle response stating that you are a non-comm site and it is your belief and understanding that your sight does not infringe on Purdue. There are several good domain defense groups/sites. Check out http://www.ajax.org/dda/ which is the sight of Domain Defense Advocates and the infamous ajax battle .

    Hope this helps. If you get a second letter, please feel free to email me, I may know someone down there. Also, I am certain that Purdue School of Law has a clinic and that some young law student would love to chew on this. Good luck.

    rootrot

  17. Cowardice. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

    You know, the more often I read these stories, the more I see people write "I know I'm right, but I'd rather not go to court/get sued/can't afford lawyers" etc.

    It's discouraging to see that. Essentially, it's cowardice.

    Partially, geeks are legal cowards because the have too much to lose - they have a lot of income potential, and they don't want to jeopardize it - and partially, I think there's a culture here that's conflict averse for anything other than text flamewars.

    Personally, I'm a scrapper, descended from a line of scrappers - including people who fought Latin American dictators and faced exile and death for their convictions. I am pretty sure I would put up a fight in a situation like this - it's sad to see that few will, because you will never enjoy rights that you don't struggle for.

  18. Re:Let 'em sue you first -- bad dvice! by bluGill · · Score: 2

    Do not wait. I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell you that waiting to consult a lawyer (who is expirenced in this) is a bad idea.

    Get a lawyer to look over the case, give you a preliminary thoughts. Take his advice, but perhaps write a letter of response that you have received their letter and are researching the relavent areas of law. Make sure it is neteral, you don't want to give any impression that you are leaning one way or anouther.

    Now go to the local library and do research. A law library is better, but any one will do. Go to the law sections and read how to be your own lawyer books, and all the relavent area of law. This should take many hours, so plan on spending a lot of time reading. Lawyers may be paid to know the law, but they rarely know enough. If you know the law you can either save him some research, or perhaps win the case when you bring up relavent areas that he wouldn't have looked for. Some lawyers are good, some are too lazy to do it right. (Use tact when suggesting things to him though, a lawyer who doesn't like you will not help you)

    When I mention a paid lawyer above, not just any lawyer, you want one who knows the internet and internet law. (But you can get recomendataions from a local lawyer)

    Of course the publicity angle mentioned above doesn't hurt, students tend to side with the underdog, they may put enough pressure on the university that they back off.

  19. Webster's definition by hangdog · · Score: 2

    according to Webster: perdue n. "a soldier sent on a dangerous mission".

  20. Alumni by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2

    Take your case to the alumni. You're offering free services to students, right, better than the equivalents offered by the administration? The alumni are bound to take your side. Once that happens the administration will fold faster than you can say "donation money".

    If you do have to give it up, try to assign ownership to a student-run organization that is not under university control, or at least with a great deal of autonomy, that can raise a big stink if the administration gets coercive in how the domain is used.

  21. dns doesn't work with trademarks by mattdm · · Score: 2
    The DNS namespace is not appropriate for trademark laws at all. It's amazing how many things are trademarked -- if we removed all of them from the allowed list of domains, only large corporations with armies of lawyers would be allowed to have anything but random sequences of alphanumerics.

    Trademarks are designed to work within specific classes of goods and services. Purdue the school is certainly within Class 41, Education. Since the site in question isn't being used to sell (or "trade", as the case may be) anything, it doesn't really fall into any class. But even if it did, it probably would be a different one, and there would be no conflict.

    Furthermore, trademarks DO NOT remove the usage of a word from the language. Just because someone has trademarked the letter Q (Paramount has, by the way) doesn't mean you can't use it. As I understand it, descriptive use of trademarks is okay. You are allowed to call the Boston Marathon "The Boston Marathon" without the permission of the trademark owners -- you don't have to call it "that big long famous race that's held in Boston. That might apply in this case as well.


    --

  22. Re:If you want to sell, you must retain a lawyer by MindStalker · · Score: 2

    No but see, they are passing laws that say you can't buy a trademarked name with the intent to sell. If he sold it would show intent.. DUH! While a good lawyer could help make sure he doesn't get himself in that sorta trouble.

  23. We need more TLD and *restrictions* on them by Masem · · Score: 5
    If this was Compaq going after compaqonline.com, I see no problem with that. However, this is an education instituion trying to go after a .com domain. There's something logically wrong about that.

    Besides the constant talk about trying to add new top level domains, I really hope such talk includes placing restrictions on those domains. Things such as

    • .net may only be distributed to ISPs and other network service providers.
    • .org may only be distributed to non-profit organizations
    • .com or .baz may be only distributed to companies and businesses.
    Also, I would suggest that you cannot fight domain names that are outside your company's TLD. For example, say .web is set up for general purpose websites that are not part of e-business and fall outside other catagories (I would consider /., segfault, and most on line comics to fall into this area). If someone set up compaqsuxs.web, Compaq would have no right to try to fight that site, as Compaq would be considered a .com/.biz site. (If there is excessive slander in the content of the site, then there might be recourse there, but that's not related to the domain name itself).

    But once again, it boils down to the fact that e-commerce has put too much value on the domain name, which 5 years ago, was of very little importance to any net-savvy person. *sigh*.

    --
    "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
    "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
    1. Re:We need more TLD and *restrictions* on them by Masem · · Score: 2
      Does this mean that I should be able to register compaq.org (they're not a non-profit organization) or compaq.net (they're not a network provider - well maybe they are actually)? I think not.

      I'd argue that if logic prevailed over IP, then compaq.org and compaq.net are fundamentally different from compaq.com, and Compaq has no right to claim those domains.

      The problem is that of image. In the perfect world, if the average joe saw they were at compaq.net, they would know that they are not at a site that is necessarily affliated with Compaq. Thus, Compaq would have no reason to think about compaq.net. Unfortuatnely, e-commerce has elevated the URL to a status symbol. It's almost but not quite too late to place restrictions on domain names to remove the status of URL, or at least limit them to a subset of domain space.

      --
      "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
      "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
    2. Re:We need more TLD and *restrictions* on them by Masem · · Score: 2
      Not really, if the transition is done right.

      First, let's add .web, .www, .home, and other TLD that are not company or organization web sites, but are just probably the initial definition of web sites.

      During the transition period, before these new TLDs are open, all holders of .com sites that are not commercial businesses would be allows to register within the new TLDs on a name by name basis (eg you own slashdot.org, you could only get slashdot.web or slashdot.www). This would be FREE OF CHARGE, along with the stipuation that at the end of the transition period, the .com domain would be removed from the registery. If the domain name owner does not want to give up the .com domain, he has that right, pending the fact that they would no longer have the first come first serve rights that NSI current grants, leaving them open for any domain name conflict issues.

      Now, I know this will screw up many search engines and a lot of other things too, so the nameserver people would work with the search engine sites to work most of this out. The transition period would have two halves; the first is the above, and the second would be when web site maintainers and search engines would begin to readjust all points to fix those sites that moved (if NSI provides a list of the old and new domain names, this ought to be as simple as a perl regex!)

      --
      "Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
      "I can see my house from here!" - ST:
  24. response by jsm2 · · Score: 2

    first to AC:

    Although your point is probably valid, in that I didn't give much evidence of not being a chickenshit, I'm actually not one. Among the organisations and people with whom I've picked fights during a short but belligerent life are: the Inland Revenue (several times), the British Army, the Swiss Banking Commission and the Richardson family (S. London). I've looked into the barrel of a gun and talked my way out of it. As a community leader, I've stood face to face with a man who was later convicted for arranging the murder of three (fellow) drug dealers and told him he wasn't welcome in our estate. This isn't macho-talk, just a record of the things that happen to you if you're articulate, political and more than averagely cocky.

    Of all the battles I've been in, however, the ones which left me worst bruised have been fought against educational institutions. You are wrong to assume that they will hold back from being vindictive; they correctly assume that they will get the best of the PR battle. Big universities can flunk you, throw you out, etc, etc and who are the newspapers going to believe? A prestigious institution of learning, or some guy who flunked college and claims that they have a vendetta against him? As soon as you take on the authority which rates people for credibility, you start to develop credibility problems of your own.

    Second, to Mawbid:

    I've done a lot more things that I regret than you have, for example; both sins of ommission and of commission. I would wholeheartedly agree with you that people should always stand up for what they believe in.

    But I'd urge ttypo to consider whether this is really "something he believes in", or just something he wants. If it's the first, fight like a tiger. If it's the second, you need to weigh up the balance of advantages. As far as I can see, it's the second, and the balance of advantages says "give up and move on".

    Many things are worth going to the wire for. Political views, loved ones, the truth. Possessions never are. And a domain name looks much more like a possession than anything else to me.

    God, I never thought I was going to get so philosophical. I must care about this more than I thought.

    jsm

    PS On a practical note, I might suggest that a write-in protest by /. reading Purdue alumni might a) alert the administrators that they might be alienating potential benefactors through their actions and b) would probably not get ttypo into too much trouble.

  25. Earlier Case I remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I remember reading a long while ago on /. about another domain that this happened to. I can't remember off-hand *which* domain it was, but basically someone had chosen to use a domain, and then later down the road a company tried to force him to turn it over. He refused and later it was discovered you can basically fight and win the domain battle if you can prove some stuff.. the ones I remember being: 1) You've had the domain for more than 2 years *AND* the other party never asked you to turn it over (such as a domain that was the same as a company name) well I can really only remember that one, but as I sit here.. I start to wonder why would the university threaten you? It's just that, a University, hence would be *required* to use .EDU (not .COM) There are other sites out there that use school names.. such as www.psu.org (the school's address: www.psu.edu) and such. I believe Perdue is going overboard on this, and since you do strictly have a disclaimer you are not affliated with the school, they should have no problem. There is a Orthopedics place in my home town (same town with Penn State Univ) that is named "University Orthopedics". Simple way to avoid a lawsuit.. they state in any ad they place (radio, TV, etc) "We are not affliated with The Pennsylvania State University, but we do treat many of their atheletes" In any case, I'd look more into the deal about having the domain for 2 years... I *know* the posting is here on /. somewhere.. The article would be maybe about 8 months old now, and I'm not sure how long /. keeps postings around, but maybe one of the guys could give you a hand in tracking it down.

  26. What about the other 50 *purdue*.* domain names? by nichachr · · Score: 4

    I would ask them which of the other 50 registrants of domain names with "Purdue" in the name they're hassling. There are obviously a few below that are probably running much more commerical sites than yours. As for legal advice, I suggest you check with the registrants of: Purdue-law.com (They specialize in patent law!) and Purduelaw.com (no site up). They might have some advice!

    CCPURDUE.COM
    PURDUEMANAGEDCARE.COM
    GREEKSATPURDUE.COM
    BIGPURDUEFAN.COM
    PURDUEPRIDE.COM
    PURDUEAPARTMENTS.COM
    PURDUEGEAR.COM
    GO2PURDUE.COM
    PURDUEALUMNICLUB.COM
    PURDUETALK.COM
    PURDUERULES.COM
    PURDUETEAMLINK.COM
    PURDUECATALOG.COM
    PURDUEBOOKSTORE.COM
    GOPURDUE.COM
    PURDUEPRONET.COM
    PURDUEMAIL.COM
    PURDUEBOILERMAKERS.COM
    PURDUEONLINE.COM
    PURDUELAW.COM
    PURDUEEFCU.COM
    PURDUEBIOPHARMA.COM
    HPURDUE.COM
    PURDUEFAN.COM
    PURDUEDATING.COM
    E-PURDUE.COM
    PURDUEJOBS.COM
    PAULPURDUE.COM
    PURDUEPHARMA.COM
    PURDUE-LAW.COM
    PURDUE-FEDERICK.COM
    PURDUEFREDERICK.COM
    PURDUEFREDRICK.COM
    PURDUESPIRIT.COM
    PURDUEPEOPLE.COM
    PURDUE.COM
    PURDUESPORTS.COM
    PURDUEU.COM
    MRPURDUE.COM
    PURDUENET.COM
    PURDUEBOOKS.COM
    PURDUEGRAD.COM
    PURDUEHOUSING.COM
    PURDUEUNIVERSITY.COM
    JOHNPURDUECLUB.COM
    PURDUEFUND.COM
    PURDUECOOPERATIVES.COM
    PURDUEPETE.COM
    PURDUEALUMNI.COM
    PURDUEBASKETBALL.COM
    PURDUESOURCE.COM

  27. Don't panic! (Basic TM law info) by Froomkin · · Score: 5

    I'm a lawyer and (worse?) a law professor, so I have to start with disclaimers: this isn't legal advice, consult a lawyer who is familiar with the facts of your situation, etc. etc. YMMV. Consult the other disclaimers at once, etc. etc..

    I should also note that what follows is based on the law at the time the letter was written (i.e. I am not taking account of the cybersquatting bill, which AFAIK has not actually passed both houses yet although I gather it's almost a foregone conclusion).

    Furthermore, trademark law varies some (but only some) from country to country. I know much more about US law than I do about other countries. What I do know about European trademark law, however, suggests that the position of a domain name registrant viz a viz a brick & mortar trademark holder is a little less favorable in, say, the Netherlands, than it would be in the US because the distinction between commercial/non-commercial uses is less strong, and because mere registration may qualify as "use" of a trademark or some other type of infringing activity. What follows is primarily geared to the US domain name registrant.

    As a general rule, trademark law divides the universe of trademarks into two families: a fairly small set of "famous" marks (think "CocaCola (tm)" and everything else. In the US the "famous" marks (and, weirdly, maybe some non-famous marks) are protected by relatively new federal anti-dilution statute and in many but not all states by (older) state anti-dilution laws which do vary. All trademarks, whether famous or not, are also protected against "confusion" and "tarnishment" (and other stuff we'll ignore for now). Tarnishment prosecutions are rare, but the law protects against the association of a trademarked name with something really bad (porn or drugs), modulo first amendment concerns (but then beware libel law). Running a porn site, even a free one, might well be considered tarnishment if the site's name was easily confused with a trademarked name.

    The critical points to understand, as a first approximation to the law only, are these:

    • In the US, although not necessarily in other countries, mere registration of a domain name, without something more (infringing use and/or an offer to sell the domain name, especially one that is part of a pattern of such offers), is NOT a violation of trademark law. There might be some special cases sounding in unfair competition law (e.g. registering the domain name of a competitor), but we'll ignore that.
    • If
      1. your use is purely non-commercial (you are not even selling T-shirts), and
      2. you have never offered to sell the domain name to anyone for anything, and
      3. you are not guilty of tarnishment
      then your legal position is very strong.
    • If you are engaged in any sort of commercial activity using the domain name, it matters whether the trademark is famous or not.
      • If it is (and fame can be just regional instead of national) , you might want to talk to a lawyer as this part of the law is in some flux since the federal statute is fairly new and state laws vary.
      • If the mark is not famous, the most important issue is whether there is a likelihood of confusion between your site and the trademark. This is a question about how you are using the site, not a question about the name itself. On the other hand, the court will look at the totality of the circumstances, including how different your line of business is from that of the trademark holder. Just running a little disclaimer is not inevitably going to be enough to protect you, especially if there is substantial similarity between your line of business and theirs. Yup, probably lawyer time again.
    • If you have offered to sell the domain name for $$$ the court is going to suspect you of being a cybersquatter. The more the $$$, the worse it looks. It also looks worse if you initiated the contact; it's less bad if they contacted you and they first broached the subject of $$$.

    Note also that all new registrations and all re-registrations in .com, .org and .net will henceforth be subject to ICANN's new take-it-or-leave-it dispute policies at the option of a complainant with a trademark seeking to wrest a domain name from a non-trademark holder.

    So, don't panic. Please keep in mind that the new cybersquatting bill may obsolete some of the above. I understand the bill was amended last week and I have not had a chance to look at the latest text, which is why I'm not discussing it.


    A. Michael Froomkin,
    U. Miami School of Law,POB 248087
    Coral Gables, FL 33124,USA
    --

    I have a blog.

  28. RE: Well, I must say you're wrong... by CodeShark · · Score: 2
    That's okay. You're entitled to your opinion, no matter what the facts are. (In other words, I intend to dissect your post into little itsy bitsy worthless pieces).

    Domain name squatting was once regarded as completely appropriate...

    1. Who says that ttyp0 is cybersquatting? According to his article, the website is offering services of a valid nature to Purdue students.
    2. He's not attempting to sell the domain name and make money on it, and finally,
    3. I disagree that domain name squatting was ever regarded as completely appropriate, even "four to five years ago or something like that"
    My point being, that cybersquatting is not anything remotely like what is going on here.

    The second part of your post implies that anything to do with the word Compaq (for example) is trademarked, which may or may not be true. However, ttyp0 checked, and clearly states not only that "I found that Purdue had only two names trademarked, which are "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers"." but also that "I clearly state that we are not affiliated with Purdue University."So on this point, again, the website owner has made efforts to completely obey the law.

    This leads to my final dissection of your post, in which you say "...something about trademark law says that if you don't protect your trademark, you lose the right to it, i.e. you can't successfully sue people later on that use it." That is correct. Except that the name Purdue isn't trademarked, just "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers. Which means that your final point ("They can sue you even if you registered it "first", because it was illegal of you to register and use their name in the first place.") doesn't hold up to reality.

    The bottom line is, if the University wanted the word "Purdue" trademarked, they should have done it years ago. Since they didn't, they don't have the legal right to challenge PURDUEONLINE.COM's right to exist.

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  29. Find a lawyer! by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2

    First and foremost, the thing you need to do is find a lawyer, find a lawyer, find a lawyer. I'm not one. 99.9% of the people who post on Slashdot on /. are not one either. Don't take our advice, except in that one important respect.

    How to find a lawyer? There's a lawyer directory called Martindale-Hubbell, which you can find at most any library. They also have a website, but I don't know if that actually contains the full content of the book or just those people who've added an online listing.

    This book lists not only the lawyers and their types of practices, but also certain important statistics that help you decide how good they are. Find a lawyer and talk to them. You may or may not have a case, but Slashdotters are not the ones to tell you that.

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
  30. Field Report: xfiles.com by BaronCarlos · · Score: 2
    Though this is probably one story in a billion, I was affiliated with a site called xfiles.com, in which X-Files fans could gather, talk and trade files on their favorite TV show.

    The Fox Network soon saw upset that xfiles.com existed and wanted the domain name.

    The webmaster, whom I worked under, fought hard, and he retold his story Here.

    The eventual downfall came when Fox threatened to litigate in expensive lawsuits. My boss had the legal right, but the big money of FOX could muscle his middle class income into poverty with just one legal battle.

    So we caved, and created Chatphiles.com instead.
    *Carlos: Exit Stage Right*

    "Geeks, Where would you be without them?"

    --
    *Carlos: Exit Stage Right*

    "Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
    "Got Linux?"

  31. Advice from an alum by "Zow" · · Score: 2

    Hey Brent,

    I'm a CS '97 grad from Purdue (and I'm guessing we know each other, but I digress) and I recall this type of thing being the subject of a couple talks I heard when I was there.

    The first one that comes to mind is when Dr. Comer talked to our 413 class. One of the students asked what he thought about someone registering comer.com , and he totally blew it off, saying that when they developed DNS, they never expected people would just go out registering everything, so that's just the way it goes. I know Dr. Comer can be a hard person to find, but (especially if you're a CS student) if you can get him to put in a nice word for you with the administration, saying that that's just the way the system (in part developed by Purdue) was designed to work, it would probably be a big boon for your case. Of course there are deeper political issues with doing that: I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader.

    The second source you'll want to check out is University Cleaners. I heard the owner (who's like a PU ME class of '56 or something) give a talk at a leadership conference. Seems that when he started University Cleaners 30 or 40 years ago, he got the same kind of letter from the University, saying how he had to change the name because people were getting the impression that his business was owned or something by Purdue University, which we all know is a bunch of bunk. Anyway, he made a big case for himself, presented it to Purdue, and they dropped the issue. So look him up and see if he has any pointers for you.

    Of course, a bunch of letters from Alums can't hurt. I'd be happy to participate. Just let me know where to send it if you organize such an effort.

    Hope this helps!

    -"Zow"

    #define GETALAWYER

    #include

  32. Theory is nice, but . . . by werdna · · Score: 2

    when it comes down to it, this is going to have to be made as a rational business decision on your part.

    You need to do two things: (1) Assess the value (aesthetically, commercially or otherwise) to you of keeping the domain name; and (2) Assess the merits of Purdue's claims.

    This much is clear, you cannot answer the latter question effectively without getting good advice from a competent lawyer, and in this case an expert on the subject will be far more efficient than a low-end techno-newbie, even at one-third the rate.

    I can assure that no contributor to slashdot, lawyer or non-laywer can give you sound advice based solely upon the information provided, so should you decide to act upon any advice you receive here, be assured you will get in value precisely what you paid for the advice. Might as well flip a coin.

    But if you do complete those analyses, you may discover that the matter can be dismissed with a letter, or even if it cannot be, that it would be worthwhile to fight (or try to outstare the other side) with respect to a genuine lawsuit. From this information, you can actually plan and execute a strategy, rather than merely react to the letter.

    For your own good, Its probably best not to respond to the letter until you have obtained advice of competent counsel, except perhaps to advise the other side that you will communicate with them after you have obtained and received advice of counsel.