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Carmack on the retail Quake3 for linux
Fritti writes "Carmack's new .plan talks about the retail version of Quake3Arena (besides announcing a Mac version of the demo); he asks Linux/Mac users to make a statement toward the distributors and resellers, and to wait for the appropriate boxed version before buying. "If everyone bought a windows version and the other boxes sold like crap in comparison, that would be plenty of evidence for most executives to can any cross platform development.". "
So I understand the whole "wait for the linux version" deal.
Apparently there's some way to buy the windows version and get a freebie ticket for the linux version when it is released. So I assume that when this happened in the past (has it?), all the linux people bought the windows version and then "upgraded" when the linux version became available.
Here's my question. If gaming companies are looking for evidence of Linux interest, why are they just looking at sales? Do not the download volumes of linux binaries also matter?
Why can't they say "well, uh there were 153,893 windows versions bought, and then 53,000 people turned in their coupons for the linux version... So we sold 100,893 windows versions."
Or am I missing something?
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You can still consider yourself lucky - it's easier to buy games in the Netherlands than in Germany. I had no problems finding a copy of Q2 in the NL, but German shops cannot advertise for violent games (they're for adults only, treated like pornography). Some shops have a copy if you explicitly ask for them, but it's a long search to find one. What a strange situation... I don't think it'll be different with Q3.
Now that there were some US-like killings in Germany (a student kills his history teacher with a knife, another one shoots several persons with his father's weapons) the media are already catching up and do the same bad coverage (from the journalistic point of view) as in the US, so I guess the situation will not become better. Sigh...
Don't get me wrong, those killings are tragic. But I think they're unrelated to the fact that violent video games were played by these individuals. In the typical German way (vorauseilender Gehorsam) all future games by companies like id soft get the 'adult' label.
This is in response to many people who ask why not a hybrid cd, or quick downloads... Read the plan..carefully. Carmack would like to do a hybrid CD version. He chose not to. This is clearly not because he wants to screw the Linux/Mac crowd. A big part of this whole set-up id is using is to convince the DISTRIBUTORS and RETAILERS (CompUSA, etc) that Linux/Mac versions will sell. Id is going to support these platforms in the future no matter what. If they offered Linux/Mac versions on the same CD or as downloadable binaries, all the distributors/retailers would see is "Ok, 900,000 sales of the game that contain the Windows version". They (the distributors/retailers) don't care how many people download the Linux/Mac executable, no matter how many logs id presents them with, because it has nothing to do with them. They deal only in the physical goods of the box. While you may be slightly inconvienced due to the Windows version coming out before the Linux version, in the long term this release, if Linux/Mac users have the patience to wait for the right version, will be the first step towards changing the attitudes of these distributors/retailers. Dont blame id, they are going to release the game near simultanously for all markets, they just realize that currently the distributors will give preference to the Windows version. Why is half of Slashdot so negative? Lashing out at id is exactly the wrong response. This has the potential to be a GREAT thing. Uh that's all.
There seems to be a lot of talk here about the fact that Q3A may (or may not)be a rehashed version of Wolfenstein, Doom, etc. etc
What I don't see mentioned is one of the main reasons why I'll gladly shell my bucks over to Id: they put out quality product, period.
95% of gaming companies don't do this -- they either *can't* do it because they don't have the coding talen or they *won't* do it because the corporate suits insist that they release their product prematurely.
I mean, I'm not an advocate of gaming magazines -- they seem to be glorified hype-machines with dippy writers -- but they are a good thermometer of the gaming culture. Maybe not the "hardcore" culture -- but I think they give a pretty good idea of what Joe Consumer buys when he/she steps into a Best Buy and wants the latest "game".
Now, take a look at the games they "review" at any given time: 85% of the reviews in any given are way, way below the "satisfactory" level. Companies out there are just shovelling the stuff out -- to make money, yes -- but also to cash in on the latest hot license. I mean, stop and think: does anyone think for a minute that there's a *high* probability that the Matrix license will lead to a quality game? It'll probably lead to a so-so game, a mediocore review, and then will be forgotten in two months time.
Id, on other hand, consistently scores pretty well with these gaming magazines and writers. (And, in a tangent rant, you always get the jackoff writers writing dumb editorials: "Hmm. I don't really know what to write in my editorial, so I'll write an editorial about not knowing what to write about in an editorial." Or: "Well, folks, it's been a good XX years, but I've got to move on. I've seen X, and I've seen Y, and well, I can't think of anything else to say, so I'll just write this column about writing a column about saying goodbye to writing columns.")
And, sure, these writers usually say much of what is being said here: that Quake X is a rehash, another Doom, a prettier Wolfenstein. Still, they usually admit (rightly, I think) that, well, Id pretty much sets the standard for graphics and gameplay that many, many other companies follow.
Not to mention they oftentimes set the standard for hardware purchasing, too. I mean, I go by the Id rule: I upgrade whenever a new Quake is out because, well, that's the time to upgrade. I know that if I want pretty eye-candy in Quake, I'll probably get a new graphics card and a new CPU (and maybe a new mobo).
Although Id has problems. The initial releases of Quake 2, for example, were a mess. But they're pretty good about keeping in touch with the community and fixing the problems. I can't say the same for other developers. (Some developers, yes: the Unreal folks, the Half-Life, folks, etc.)
But I just get the sense that Carmack and Co. -- while they of course have to deal with the suits and with their profit margins -- are more likely to put out a quality piece of work than not.
It's not a crap shoot with Id. You know you'll get some a topnothc product. There's no doubt about that. You may not like the gameplay -- or you may find it derivitive, whatever -- but gameplay theory issues aside, the product itself is always kickass.
I mean, hell, Delta Force 2 is a lot like Delta Force. SpecOPS II is a *lot* like SpecOPS I. And with those two products, I don't see the sort of technological leaps you see in Id's products.
They always put out some wildass wicked shit.
I agree with you to a point...I may not be a big fan of Quake, but I like ID's attitude. Carmack is the 'last man standing' with respect to supporting multiple platforms, and especially with respect to OpenGL...we need to support him for that, or else we'll never see games on Linux (Just take a look at Tim Sweeney's comments about Direct3d over on unreal.epicgames.com...what a Microsoft toady.)
However, ID isn't the only quality company out there...I'd rank Looking Glass right at the top right now, especially after seeing/playing System Shock 2 and Thief, and having dealt with the company personally.
There is one thing you need to differentiate between though...on one side you've got the game houses like ID and Looking Glass. On the other side, you've got the distributers...monsters like Electronic Arts and Eidos. ID may be willing to support Linux, but I guarantee you that EA/Activision/Eidos do NOT. I wish there was a way to get around the 'middleman' and go directly to the game houses, but unfortunately we usually can't (kind of like the music industry, ain't it?).
Personally, I despise the distributers...especially Eidos. Eidos has been the ruin of more than one game out there. Soul Reaver was forcibly released ahead of schedule by Eidos because they didn't want to wait for it to be finished. Worse, Eidos made Crystal Dynamics CRIPPLE the game just so Eidos could make a damn sequel (this was proven, all of the sounds from the 'original' game are still on the CD, including some major characters that didn't make the final Eidos cut). Eidos did the same thing to Revenant as well (bug ridden, unfinished). It'll be interesting to see if Electronic Arts has forced the compromise of the upcoming Ultima IX, too.
So the post advocating a violation of id's license terms and copyright get moderated up, but a post criticizing this idea get moderated down.
Look, I know there is no pretense of fairness or lack of bias on slashdot. Anything MS-related will get slammed -- fine. Anyone claiming a software patent is a jerk -- ok.
But upscoring posts which openly advocate copyright violations is not acceptable. If it's ok to ignore id's license, is it ok for someone else to ignore the GPL and release modified binary-only distributions of the Linux kernel?
Go ahead and "troll" me. My karma can take it. At least I'm not posting anonymously.
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And with good reason.
If id did make the mistake of releasing a hybrid CD the results would skew the sales results distributors are watching in a way disasterous for those advocating the porting of games to Linux.
How? Linux users are by and large more technically savvy than Windows users are on average. While the Windows gamer may not realize (or care) that they could play their copy of Quake 3 under Linux, if Linux users were in fact able to do this, many would impatiently run out and buy the hybrid version labelled Windows, because it was in the store earlier, and then load up the Linux version. Fine for them, but bad for Linux, as their purchase has just inflated the Windows sales results and deflated the Linux sales result. The net result is that that one Linux gamer's purchase has widened the Linux/Windows sales gape by TWO (-1 Linux, +1 Windows). This is not what we want, and id has wisely chosen a way to prevent this. Have a little patience -- it will likely be rewarded in coming months and years as venders and other game manufacturers begin to take Linux more seriously and come out with Linux products, with any luck in a more timely fashion.
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