Slashdot Mirror
Carmack on the retail Quake3 for linux
Fritti writes "Carmack's new .plan talks about the retail version of Quake3Arena (besides announcing a Mac version of the demo); he asks Linux/Mac users to make a statement toward the distributors and resellers, and to wait for the appropriate boxed version before buying. "If everyone bought a windows version and the other boxes sold like crap in comparison, that would be plenty of evidence for most executives to can any cross platform development.". "
I think that in this case, piracy might be justified. If you really can't wait for the Linux version, pirate the windows version off of a friend until the Linux version is available. Everybody's still getting the money so no big deal right, and by waiting for the Linux version, we're all making a statement in support of Linux software. Finally, I think it would be neat to put Linux/Windows versions on the same CD and just use different boxes to track shipping. I'm sure if they're clever they could even put it in the same box and give it two different codes. Then the retailer will use the Linux code if it is sold as a Linux box, and the Windows code if it is sold as a windows box. That way the retailers can "alter" their stock to meet supply and demand but still get accurate records.
--PLEASE!!--
I know there are a lot of people that play in both windows and linux, and this may be a bit of an inconvenience in the short term, but this is an ideal time to cast a vote as a consumer.
I'd really love to stop using Windows totally, but as a serious gamer that's just not a possibility at this point. So go put your money where your mouth is and help convince game companies that they should make Linux versions of All games. A pipe dream yes I know, but id was the first game company to realize the power of demo's (err, shareware) and hopefully they can lead the charge again.
Support Linux, buy Quake3 in the box with the Penguin on it(?).
+&x
Gamers want the best in graphics, sounds, ...
Yep, just like that Zork game had.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
for linux/x86 only, or will it be available for all other archs (ppc, alpha, sparc, arm, m68k?)?
of course, this a rhetorical question. i'm sure he means only x86. i wish people would be more specific when they say "for linux". "for linux" only makes sense if you're releasing the source (in which case you can compile it on any arch, barring any endian or asm depenencies).
counting how many copies of what version sell
.or.
ananlyzing thousands of server logs from around the world, collected from random individuals running random servers, which might be up or down depending on the day or even the time of day. Add in the other uncontrolled variable (dynamic IP's, shared copies, etc) and it becomes obvious that there is a much simpler way to figure out how many people on what platform use the software (see paragraph 1).
+&x
Since many people running Linux are well connected, why not make the software availabe for on-line purchase?
Of course, boxed versions and retail space have some positive effect on public perception and are desirable from that point of view for making people aware that Linux is good at gaming. But that seems to me like a separate issue from whether the gaming company itself makes money off the product.
So I understand the whole "wait for the linux version" deal.
Apparently there's some way to buy the windows version and get a freebie ticket for the linux version when it is released. So I assume that when this happened in the past (has it?), all the linux people bought the windows version and then "upgraded" when the linux version became available.
Here's my question. If gaming companies are looking for evidence of Linux interest, why are they just looking at sales? Do not the download volumes of linux binaries also matter?
Why can't they say "well, uh there were 153,893 windows versions bought, and then 53,000 people turned in their coupons for the linux version... So we sold 100,893 windows versions."
Or am I missing something?
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
What's happening is that id is going to allow users to download the binaries necessary to play on a platform other than the one that they purchased. For instance, if I buy the Win32 version, I'll be able to download the binaries to let me play the game in Linux or on a Mac too. Carmack went on to say that they'd be holding off on releasing these binaries until after the Mac and Linux boxed versions had been available in stores, to keep people from buying Windows versions just to run on Linux, so that the number of sales of Windows copies isn't quite so large.
---
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
You can still consider yourself lucky - it's easier to buy games in the Netherlands than in Germany. I had no problems finding a copy of Q2 in the NL, but German shops cannot advertise for violent games (they're for adults only, treated like pornography). Some shops have a copy if you explicitly ask for them, but it's a long search to find one. What a strange situation... I don't think it'll be different with Q3.
Now that there were some US-like killings in Germany (a student kills his history teacher with a knife, another one shoots several persons with his father's weapons) the media are already catching up and do the same bad coverage (from the journalistic point of view) as in the US, so I guess the situation will not become better. Sigh...
Don't get me wrong, those killings are tragic. But I think they're unrelated to the fact that violent video games were played by these individuals. In the typical German way (vorauseilender Gehorsam) all future games by companies like id soft get the 'adult' label.
I don't know if I'd go that far. Acutally I think that reasonable QIII performance is within the reach of the average user. One can get a decent Athlon box with a good 3d accelerator for less than $1500 (I should know, just got one last week).
As for the depth of human color perception I have to plead ignorance. But why would everyone be making such a big deal about 32bit color if no one could see the difference? Would the difference between 16bit (normal/decent video card output) vs. 24bit (What you claim as human's color threshold) really be all that great? Hey I don't even enable 32bit color when I play QIII since I'm one of those "go fast and look ugly" type of players. When I'm playing hardcore I'd rather have the framerate than the eye candy. But when it comes time to show what the new machine can do the eye candy can really impress.
Pete
The sole purpose of the Internet is to get porn and bomb making plans into the hands of children.
Don't be so sure. Whilst I love my Sparc Linux box to bits (those who have only ever encountered x86 hardware really don't know what they're missing), it's never going to be able to play Q3A. Sure, Sun make boxes that are capable of doing so, but they cost 8-10 times as much as an equivalent (at least in terms of playing Quake) x86 box. The sort of people that are going to spend that much money on a Sparc aren't generally going to be playing quake.
That said, it is an important point. Non-x86 platforms are being left behind in terms of commercial Linux software. While it may not be able to play Quake, my Sparc is perfectly capable of running StarOffice, Insure++, RealPlayer, etc -- but they're only available for Linux/x86. Maybe I should take another look at Solaris binary emulation :-) I can still use all the free software on my Sparc (if nothing else, I can compile it myself), and I can also remotely display stuff to the Sparc from my Linux/x86 box, but that's kind of missing the point...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
This is in response to many people who ask why not a hybrid cd, or quick downloads... Read the plan..carefully. Carmack would like to do a hybrid CD version. He chose not to. This is clearly not because he wants to screw the Linux/Mac crowd. A big part of this whole set-up id is using is to convince the DISTRIBUTORS and RETAILERS (CompUSA, etc) that Linux/Mac versions will sell. Id is going to support these platforms in the future no matter what. If they offered Linux/Mac versions on the same CD or as downloadable binaries, all the distributors/retailers would see is "Ok, 900,000 sales of the game that contain the Windows version". They (the distributors/retailers) don't care how many people download the Linux/Mac executable, no matter how many logs id presents them with, because it has nothing to do with them. They deal only in the physical goods of the box. While you may be slightly inconvienced due to the Windows version coming out before the Linux version, in the long term this release, if Linux/Mac users have the patience to wait for the right version, will be the first step towards changing the attitudes of these distributors/retailers. Dont blame id, they are going to release the game near simultanously for all markets, they just realize that currently the distributors will give preference to the Windows version. Why is half of Slashdot so negative? Lashing out at id is exactly the wrong response. This has the potential to be a GREAT thing. Uh that's all.
Wrong. There's actually quite a big difference: gameplay. Wolf3D was a nice, groundbreaking game with decent playability. Then came Doom, with more gameplay than virtually any other game before or since. The only possible exceptions that I can think of are Space Invaders (yes, really), Angband, Tetris and Elite. Quake had an awesome 3D engine (for the time), but the gameplay sucked bigtime.
Think about the acid test. How often do you play each of the three today? I, and most people I know, still go back for the odd game of Doom. Good though it was at the time, I don't do the same for Wolf3D, and I definitely don't for Quake.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
There seems to be a lot of talk here about the fact that Q3A may (or may not)be a rehashed version of Wolfenstein, Doom, etc. etc
What I don't see mentioned is one of the main reasons why I'll gladly shell my bucks over to Id: they put out quality product, period.
95% of gaming companies don't do this -- they either *can't* do it because they don't have the coding talen or they *won't* do it because the corporate suits insist that they release their product prematurely.
I mean, I'm not an advocate of gaming magazines -- they seem to be glorified hype-machines with dippy writers -- but they are a good thermometer of the gaming culture. Maybe not the "hardcore" culture -- but I think they give a pretty good idea of what Joe Consumer buys when he/she steps into a Best Buy and wants the latest "game".
Now, take a look at the games they "review" at any given time: 85% of the reviews in any given are way, way below the "satisfactory" level. Companies out there are just shovelling the stuff out -- to make money, yes -- but also to cash in on the latest hot license. I mean, stop and think: does anyone think for a minute that there's a *high* probability that the Matrix license will lead to a quality game? It'll probably lead to a so-so game, a mediocore review, and then will be forgotten in two months time.
Id, on other hand, consistently scores pretty well with these gaming magazines and writers. (And, in a tangent rant, you always get the jackoff writers writing dumb editorials: "Hmm. I don't really know what to write in my editorial, so I'll write an editorial about not knowing what to write about in an editorial." Or: "Well, folks, it's been a good XX years, but I've got to move on. I've seen X, and I've seen Y, and well, I can't think of anything else to say, so I'll just write this column about writing a column about saying goodbye to writing columns.")
And, sure, these writers usually say much of what is being said here: that Quake X is a rehash, another Doom, a prettier Wolfenstein. Still, they usually admit (rightly, I think) that, well, Id pretty much sets the standard for graphics and gameplay that many, many other companies follow.
Not to mention they oftentimes set the standard for hardware purchasing, too. I mean, I go by the Id rule: I upgrade whenever a new Quake is out because, well, that's the time to upgrade. I know that if I want pretty eye-candy in Quake, I'll probably get a new graphics card and a new CPU (and maybe a new mobo).
Although Id has problems. The initial releases of Quake 2, for example, were a mess. But they're pretty good about keeping in touch with the community and fixing the problems. I can't say the same for other developers. (Some developers, yes: the Unreal folks, the Half-Life, folks, etc.)
But I just get the sense that Carmack and Co. -- while they of course have to deal with the suits and with their profit margins -- are more likely to put out a quality piece of work than not.
It's not a crap shoot with Id. You know you'll get some a topnothc product. There's no doubt about that. You may not like the gameplay -- or you may find it derivitive, whatever -- but gameplay theory issues aside, the product itself is always kickass.
I mean, hell, Delta Force 2 is a lot like Delta Force. SpecOPS II is a *lot* like SpecOPS I. And with those two products, I don't see the sort of technological leaps you see in Id's products.
They always put out some wildass wicked shit.
I agree with you to a point...I may not be a big fan of Quake, but I like ID's attitude. Carmack is the 'last man standing' with respect to supporting multiple platforms, and especially with respect to OpenGL...we need to support him for that, or else we'll never see games on Linux (Just take a look at Tim Sweeney's comments about Direct3d over on unreal.epicgames.com...what a Microsoft toady.)
However, ID isn't the only quality company out there...I'd rank Looking Glass right at the top right now, especially after seeing/playing System Shock 2 and Thief, and having dealt with the company personally.
There is one thing you need to differentiate between though...on one side you've got the game houses like ID and Looking Glass. On the other side, you've got the distributers...monsters like Electronic Arts and Eidos. ID may be willing to support Linux, but I guarantee you that EA/Activision/Eidos do NOT. I wish there was a way to get around the 'middleman' and go directly to the game houses, but unfortunately we usually can't (kind of like the music industry, ain't it?).
Personally, I despise the distributers...especially Eidos. Eidos has been the ruin of more than one game out there. Soul Reaver was forcibly released ahead of schedule by Eidos because they didn't want to wait for it to be finished. Worse, Eidos made Crystal Dynamics CRIPPLE the game just so Eidos could make a damn sequel (this was proven, all of the sounds from the 'original' game are still on the CD, including some major characters that didn't make the final Eidos cut). Eidos did the same thing to Revenant as well (bug ridden, unfinished). It'll be interesting to see if Electronic Arts has forced the compromise of the upcoming Ultima IX, too.
So the post advocating a violation of id's license terms and copyright get moderated up, but a post criticizing this idea get moderated down.
Look, I know there is no pretense of fairness or lack of bias on slashdot. Anything MS-related will get slammed -- fine. Anyone claiming a software patent is a jerk -- ok.
But upscoring posts which openly advocate copyright violations is not acceptable. If it's ok to ignore id's license, is it ok for someone else to ignore the GPL and release modified binary-only distributions of the Linux kernel?
Go ahead and "troll" me. My karma can take it. At least I'm not posting anonymously.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Dear Slashdot patrons,
/.'rs and linux users, we can crush the proverbial skulls of those unwilling to accept linux as a viable solution to develop software.
I'm going to make this quick. I have already written an email to sales@compusa.com explaining that I will NOT be purchasing a Windows version of Quake3Arena, as that I will be waiting for the Linux version. I explained that if my local store did not carry the linux version of Q3A, I would be buying online.
I also explained that I would be buying 2 copies of the software. One to open, play and enjoy. And the second purchase will be to support Id for supporting the linux community.
I encourage everyone to take action. Let's show the retailers of this world how much weight we can carry in purchasing dollars! If we want commercial applications developed for linux, we must show the executives of the world out there that linux IS a viable market share at whatever level, this is the time.
Stop reading this message, open up pine or netscape or whatever mail app you use and write an email to CompUSA, BestBuy, Circuit City, or whoever you would purchase software from locally.
As one person emailing a retailer, I can't make but a dent in their concious thought.
As a community of
Empower yourselves!
-Alex Shows
a.k.a. Glossifah on irc.linux.com #blackbox
And with good reason.
If id did make the mistake of releasing a hybrid CD the results would skew the sales results distributors are watching in a way disasterous for those advocating the porting of games to Linux.
How? Linux users are by and large more technically savvy than Windows users are on average. While the Windows gamer may not realize (or care) that they could play their copy of Quake 3 under Linux, if Linux users were in fact able to do this, many would impatiently run out and buy the hybrid version labelled Windows, because it was in the store earlier, and then load up the Linux version. Fine for them, but bad for Linux, as their purchase has just inflated the Windows sales results and deflated the Linux sales result. The net result is that that one Linux gamer's purchase has widened the Linux/Windows sales gape by TWO (-1 Linux, +1 Windows). This is not what we want, and id has wisely chosen a way to prevent this. Have a little patience -- it will likely be rewarded in coming months and years as venders and other game manufacturers begin to take Linux more seriously and come out with Linux products, with any luck in a more timely fashion.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy