Slashdot Mirror
Kenwood Chooses Linux Over NT for ERP
Structured Audio writes "Kenwood America (the speaker maker) has moved from Pick to Linux for its enterprise resource planning
apps. This Techweb article explains why Kenwood chose Linux over NT or a commercial Unix." ERP and financials are among the most important areas for Linux and open source to shine if they are to be accepted by the corporate world.
And no, a traceroute to my ip does not end in Redmond ;-)
The whole thing about 6-8 hours for w aindows box and vitrualy instant for Linux...
That was comparing their legacy mini to a Linux server, both doing data import/export to Windows boxen.
The 2-four processor thing is actually QUITE believable.
Kenwood is hardly a loser company. Its product line includes a complete line of communications for industrial applications, which is a very profitable market. Considering their quality over the latest Motorola products that I have to use, Kenwood looks very promising. I work in an industrial environment which requires that can deliver a clear voice. Its not much to ask, but the $450 radios from their competitor are a pain to hear.
WHAT THE FUCK IS 'FUD'?
Some links to ERP vendors and what they have to say about Linux support:
(Check out the cool penguin
So, answering my previous question, it seems like Kenwood is limited to choose between SAP and SAP.
Hi!
Exactly the right attitude - can World Domination (TM) be far behind? :-)
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
100% agreed. I switched to Linux two years ago for the same reason: more value (in my case, more programming flexibility, less system crashes/screwups) for less money. There's no fun in beating M$ and feeling victorious about it. After all, I'm sure many M$ people feel the same way when they finally managed to embrace-extend-exterminate a threatening competitor. But when what you produce gives you more value at lower costs, wOw! Now, that's worth struggling for. :-)
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
Exactly. Maybe having "losing" companies embrace Linux is the best thing. If companies are using NT and sinking, and then they convert to Linux and become successful, then maybe other companies won't wait for NT to sink them :)
-Brent--
Probably not. No one is *forcing* you to read it either. I wouldn't be posting this if I wasn't interested. If it bores you, when you see it on the front page, sigh, and move on to the next story.
Linux has passed the novelty phase.Stories like this are like awards. Linux is a real player now. Some people want to hear about companies using it.
The folks at Microsoft must laugh when they read stuff like this.I am afraid that you'll have to explain this one. Microsoft laughing because they lost business? Because Linux is overtaking NT? I think that Microsoft would be desperate to cover up all stories about companies deploying Linux.
Oh, you seem to want to cover up all stories about companies deploying Linux. Maybe that explains it. Are you Microsoft?
-Brent--
I just helped a nonprofit I volunteer for translated their data from a DOS (2digit year) app
to a WinNT/Powerbuilder app using Sybase SQL.
It took 75 hours for the WinNT app to pick up a gift records file that had 50000 records in 4 megabytes. 75 hours.
WinNT sucks donkey dick. Bigtime. NT is slow, and not only that, I can crash the app with keyboard intput, just hit enter twice, in rapid succesion, and any data acceptance point. And for that, they paid $7,000. And it's best of breed.
I have a kenwood cd player. It's tons better than any sony discman out and was actually cheaper and better looking. I hope they really improve Linux.
Well said! Now if only a few tens of thousands of other companies would adopt the same attitude, then perhaps we could finally get rid of bloatware.
(And it isn't just Microsoft who are guilty, though they seem to have written bloat into their business model.)
Hi!
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." -- John Lehman, Secretary of the US Navy 1981-1987
what's your reason? Don't simply say that it sucks. Let's see you write a better OS. What's your problem? Are you to dumb to figure it out? Is pointing and clicking all you ever figured out? Personally, I use it because it suits my needs and it's free. There is nothing in windows that can't be done in linux for me so why spend the extra money? Windows may suit your needs so so be it but don't say linux suck because it doesn't either suit your needs or because you're to much of a dumb ass to figure it out. The only other explanation is that you are a Bill Gates lover or one of those MS programmers that fears better software that's free.
I'm answering one of my own questions in another thread.
How about the other question: is choosing Linux and be dammned as far as the applications are concerned the start of a trend? Does anybody have any (other) examples of this happening in "real life"?
Hi!
In this case it's understandable - Pick is something of a mixture of an operating system, database, and programming environment. Pick is the computing equivalent of horseshoe crabs - it ought to have been made extinct ages ago, but somehow keeps plodding along just as it always has. Nice to see somebody completely bypassing the Microsoft Era, though.
Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Add Bill Gates, and you've got the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Back in January, a /. story lead me to this article containing a prize anecdote:
;)
Those well worn issues of how one make money with open source technology were batted back and forth and Richard always won the argument. Gerry, IBI's CEO, said at one point that SAP, the second largest software company in the world, does not give away its software for free, and it never will. SAP customers pay lots of money to buy their software and don't want it to be free. Richard responds by saying that he is going to write a GPL'ed version of the software SAP sells. It will take time, but there will be a freely, source code distributeable version available sometime in the future. How can you argue with that.
When I read that, I wanted to kiss his pate and laugh. At the time, I was one of three in our company charged with finding an ERP package to replace all our RS/400 OLTP and PC business intelligence applications. It would then fall to me to implement these changes company wide in 90 days. We were left with choosing between the lesser of five evils. Why? Our budget required that the software licenses be within US$200,000 per 30 users. Final cost for the project worked out to US$417,000 per 30 users.
My response in the thread was essentially "FreeSAP: Now that's the work of a patriot! Is this a declared project? Where do I sign up and what can I contribute (equipment, money, industrial eng research, code, APICS pulp, blood)?"
In reply, AC summed-up the problem:
I found his comments about writing GPL'd SAP clone software to be hilarious. He can't be serious. Just who does he think is going to write all that code? I mean, the free software community considers the Linux kernel and Mozilla to be "large" projects, both of which are trivial compared to writing software to compete with SAP from scratch. He would have to mobilize an army of free software developers, most of which would have no personal interest in or use for the kind of software SAP sells.
A clarification was submitted by RMS.
My point in this is to reaffirm that no Open Source software venue, aside from the NOS, could be of greater benefit than OS ERP applications. In the original 'Request for Comment and Quote' to ERP vendors, I listed 300+ functions that were essential to our business. The winning package checked-off all but two. In fact, only about seventy of those functions are handled meaning I had to write separate applications and find little better than compromises. In so many cases the goal could be met with a SQL trigger but all the application logic is in the client app!
Frankly, I'm awfully tired. I know that closed-source ERP applications have cost many others as dearly; I believe that hurts our economy broadly.
The ISPs I know all use some BSD flavor for their mail and DNS services. I just can't imagine some Linux flavor ever standing head and shoulders above all other contenders in this area.
(Maybe someday I'll figure out what this funny "IT" thing means. I think it's what we used to call what the mindless data-processing drones did, and whom we all despised. It's certainly no more related to computer science than my cat is. Sounds like some kind of business degree, or sentence.)
In the OS propaganda wars, it's probably better for linux to be adopted mostly by "loser companys" at this point, since there's still a lot of doubt among corporate types as to whether linux and OSS will ever be a viable replacement for proprietary software. If you make a big deal about a big, profitable company using linux, and then the company starts to lose money, even if the change has nothing to do with linux, you can bet MS is going to use that company as proof that linux will cause your business to fail, your house to burn down, and your hair to fall out. OTOH, if a struggling company adopts linux and continues to tank, you can point out that it was failing with NT, or whatever it was using. And if the company recovers, it's obviously due to linux. Of course, none of this really has anything to do with the actual merits of the OS's in question, but it's something to think about if you care about linux becoming accepted in corporate environments.
That argument doesn't work out. "if it's good for losers why shouldn't it be good for the winners?" did you really read that before you posted it? Maybe because the winners are using something better? Could that be the reason that the losers are using Linux? Now if a loser company switched to Linux and became a winner company that would be making a statement. Otherwise you're just saying that Linux is the choice of losers.
IBM is going to deploy NT5 company wide. What were you saying now about NT?
If you think that W2K is NT4+SP6 you obviously haven't used either one and are either mindlessly repeating what someone equally mis informed has told you or just making things up.
Hate to say it Tom, but you come off as an ass with "mindless drones" comments. You might despise IT people or business folks, but they are the ones using products like perl. The last time I checked, Kenwood was not in the business of computer science; they're in the business of business.
There are some who consider using perl just as antithetical to computer science as your cat. I guess it depends on what prism you're using to shape your worldview.
Since slashdot is to bias to report this (even though I did submit it) I will have to do it myself.e ID=7650
IBM to role out Win2k Company Wide From the we-are-bigots department
Seems IBM doesn't like Linux as much as their PR people might want you to think. Yep, Win2k all around. They actually deployed a beta versoin already.
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Articl
In this context, I believe they will be porting their ERP application to jBase, not looking for ERP software packages, and the system they are talking about is the hardware. Typically, legacy Pick applications either port to a modern Pick lookalike shell running on Unix or NT (jBase is one of these), or switch to a completely new application outside the Pick marketplace. The fact that they are sticking with Pick (jBase) indicates they have chosen the former path.
Port to what?
Another GUI? Another OS?
the company was already familiar with Linux, having used it for four years for its DNS and some e-mail. Kenwood was satisfied with Linux and did not wish to take the time to get up to speed on a Unix implementation , according to Calvin.
Some bravery...
A Windows machine with similar functionality would probably need to be at least a four-processor system, Calvin said.
It's dubious claims like this that really make you wonder whether Kenwood considered its options realistically. Mr. Calvin has obviously been active in the Linux community for a long time, so the real question here is how he convinced Kenwood's management that using Linux for such a business-critical application would be the right path.
Where are the stories on /. saying "company x adpots Windows NT"?
First of all, Perl is not a `product'. That's MBA talk. Perl is a program. Sometimes it's a toy. Sometimes it's a joy. Sometimes it's a way of life. :-)
What is seeping through around the edges is the same discomfort you would see if you stuck a quiet math major into a vat full of business majors or jocks.
As a kid, I always threw out the sports section and the business section of the paper, sight unseen. It was the science and technology sections, and magazine, which appealed to me. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that I'd now find more the stuff about computers in the business section than the science section. And yes, I do keep the business section now -- it's got Dilbert on the front page. :-)
You'll find that amongst hard-core programmers--those for whom programming is a game, computers a toy, and who see computer science as having no more to do with computers than has astronomy to do with telescopes--the whole business thing is often an annoyance. Experience constantly shows that programmers as a group mistrust business people in general, especially marketing and sales types, whose job programmers perceive as lying. If you expect to be taken seriously by a programmer, you don't show up in a suit and tie. This strong mutual dislike makes it very hard to run certain kinds of business, but keeping engineering in a different building than marketing certainly helps. :-)
There are some folks who do computers because they're trying to make a buck. You know the types. "MIS majors", people who are on their way to MBAs. They seem computers as a means to an end: money. These are folks whose idea of a career in computers leads to some sales job or managerial position.
Real programmers also see computers as a means to an end. It's a complete different end. And most of us think it's just nifty that we get paid to do what we'd just be doing anyway for fun. Yes, the different end is to have fun programming. It's not something I expect business people to empathize with very much.
Remember the old joke:
If you haven't known "IT pro-fess-ion-als" who were mindless drones, then you are a lucky, lucky man. We used to call them secretaries, librarians, or data entry clerks. Now they're "IT professionals". Give me a break.NT requires 486+.
Actually, the 75 hours to import a 4 meg db is quite believable. There should be some thingees to turn off that would speed up the process, but I haven't a clue as to where to start looking.
The quality of MS trolls seems to be deteriorating.
ERP is one of the prefect applications for open source since, as you said, so much of the logic is in the implementation.. and more money then I care to think about has been lost due to the lack of an open source ERP package.
Ironically, the soultion to one of the biggest problems with ERP packages could be exactly what would make an open source ERP package's development possible.. modularisation.
My limited experence with ERP packages is that they are these monserous programs which do a few things you need, so you must write your own system for the critical part and take advantage of the ERP program for some steps. It seems to me that an orginized effort to develop the necissary modules could provide us with a library that would get anyone who needed ERP a large part of the way to a working system.
I suspect that the cost of writing more code vs. implementing more SAP work-arrounds would eventually even out.. and the resulting product would be MUCH better suited to the needs of it's users.
The big question here is what should the modules. It is pretty straight forward to seperate some parts of the process like international tax handling, but some other parts may require a little more though as to how they sould be seperated from the rest of the system. It might be a reasonable vaporware open-source to just try and figure out what needs to be done and make a list of jobs?
I suspect that it would be extreamly profitable for a company to donate employies to wrok on bits of an open source ERP package because those developers will eventually be the best imaginable implementors of your companies ERP system.
Jeff
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Pick was recently ported to Linux. It is expensive propriety...
I think you are right about this. BSD's have a head start in this space. BSDs just got bogged down from its AT&T roots. I do prefer Linux because it has all its own code. I think Linux is head and shoulders above BSDs to get on the desktop on intel and that is important for OSS otherwise it may all go down the drain. I tend to like any UNIX in general and I consider it a victory if BSDs win ant battle.
Oh...yeah..it's an OS, and a database, and 'ports' of it from the Pick OS to others run in a Pick environment... It's all pretty much hell. And the fact that they still use Pick with any OS makes them dumb regardless...
PeopleSoft does mention Linux in their release notes about hardware requirements for the upcoming PeopleSoft 8.0. However, it is only offically supported as a database platform. So if you have Oracle, Informix, DB2 or any other PeopleSoft supported ANSI SQL database, it will work.
The only thing that I can see holding it back from being the application server is the correct version of MicroFocus Cobol. Bea Systems has a current version of Tuxedo for linux, although Jolt for linux would help for those implementing PeopleSoft WebClient apps. I also think the maker of the SQR product (it's been recently aquired so I can't remember the new company's name) has a recent version for linux. There is a development version of MicroFocus, but I believe PS needs the 'Net Express'(??) version that is available on Solaris or AIX.
From the user's perspective, PeopleSoft is Windows only. PeopleTools is Win32 and the WebClient Java apps while being 100% pure Java, are only supported on IE or Netscape on Windows with the Sun Java Plug-in. They aren't supported on any other platform. Their other web-based product uses HTML 3, but requires NT, IIS, and ASP on the server end.
I really wish I could run PeopleSoft on Linux. I hate it when Windows crashes when I'm working on a PS upgrade. PeopleSoft and Lotus Notes are the only reasons I need a Windows machine at all. It would be interesting to try their software with Wine. Anyone know if Wine works with ODBC?
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
That's kinda like loading X without a Window Manager...it uses marginally less RAM (most RAM suckage in X is the X server itself), and causes significantly less functionality.
Even if there was an OpenSource ERP package, a big cost of the implementation are the consultants and/or training of in-house staff. In my experience, Once the implementation is complete and your interfaces to your other systems are stable, you spend your time customizing the delivered package based on your users' needs, appling the patches that were released while you were trying to get the product installed and get ready for the next upgrade.
I think Linux has the tools that could be to build an erp system: databases, C, perl, PHP, Zope, etc. The biggest obstacle I think would be keeping the business logic current. For example, a human resource/payroll system is usually updated a few times in a year to keep up with all the tax and regulatory changes in each state, county, and city. There are several reports that are required by each state for a myriad of reasons, paycheck garnishment rules and codes, overtime rules, insurance benefits guidelines, etc. All of which are usually different from state to state. Given all of this, I can see why such companies exist. They have the legal people keeping track of all of these issues and the programming staff to implement them. I would guess that if there ever was an open source ERP package, it would be created by a company with the goal of selling the service and support to their customers just like SAP, PeopleSoft, etc. already do.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
And how is NTs world crashing down? This company wasn't using NT and still isn't using NT so NT and MS lost nothing.
MS lost a prospective client to Linux. So did the rest of the server companies...
NT is still growing rapidly. Sure Linux is growing faster, it's easy to double your installed base when the current base is extremely small.
Correction: Linux's install base was small, and Linux is growing much faster. Some estimate that Linux will eclipse MS "technology" in terms of server usage by the end of 2001. Personally, I think that will come much sooner...
If you think that W2K is NT4+SP6 you obviously haven't used either one and are either mindlessly repeating what someone equally mis informed [sic] has told you or just making things up.
I've used them both. W2K beta has a slicker interface but "feels" alot like NT4+SP5. But then I use Linux whenever possible, so I'm definitely not an "expert" Microsoft user.
Happy computing
Strangly, I too installed W2K and was impressed:
;-)
Remote graphics display, ability to mount drives at chosen mount points, a built in SU utility...
Oh wait! doesn't Unix family OS have these for years?
Oh OK! so W2K isn't a "warmed over NT4SP6". It's a warmed over Unix
Now seriously, if you you STILL have to run a GUI and IE5.x on your "Advanced Server" - then although they learned SOME things they haven't gotten IT yet (pun intended).
Just my 2c,
Gilad.
You took my words out of context. So of course it doesn't work out.
If failing companies come back as a result of better-working computers which are better because of Linux, that may be a message to the better companies that this `Linux' really is pretty good and consequently can make them better.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
What about IBM? Is it a loser company too?
Structured Audio wrote:
ERP and financials are among the most important areas for Linux and open source to shine if they are to be accepted by the corporate world.
It really bothers me how companies like RedHat embrace the support of Oracle which will never be open source, just to advance their position against Microsoft. Oracle is the real enemy and is causing most ERP vendors to suffer. It's about time the open source community does more to fight the real enemy--Oracle.
FUD is based upon older terminology ang may not be around much longer. Every one else is switching to a more modern and reliable term. You should train your people on main stream terminology. You need a computer science degree to understand FUD and there is really no central support system to define or update FUD.
Hey do me a favor, don't present yourself as a linux supporter in public. I'd rather that the first posters comments stand on their own rather than listening to your immature ramblings in response.
Not every piece of software must be OSS. Not all closed source is evil, just closed standards. But MS, IBM, Informix, Sybase, and OSS SQLs are more competition to Oracle than MS has on client machines. If there is some threat I have overlooked, flame away. I might learn somthing.
Is your personality this unpleasant in the flesh or is this just an online thing? Sheesh!
Why wouldn't every company try Linux. What will they lose?Sleep?
SA's quote was in italics, the part you quoted was written by /.'s nathan.
Having said that, it's still an impressive win for Linux.
Win, yes. Impressive?
So one company now runs one machine with linux. A start but not that big of a deal.
I don't even understand why this story got posted.
Is it time for another corollary to Godwin's Law, positing that as soon as someone is accused of being a Microsoft employee the thread is useless? I'd have to say yes.
You defeat Microsoft; you have to worry about one less greedy monster that can eat you for breakfast.
The "more value for less money" effect is a direct consequence of embracing Linux/Open Source/Free Software philosophy.
While IT managers are right about talking money effects, it won't hurt to remind everyone about what causes said effects.
Please moderate this post down for your protection.
--
Industrial space for lease in Flatlandia.
Not all "MIS majors" are just out there to make a buck. Some of us are in it because we love it. Maybe we realize that knowing a thing or two about business will allow us to work on the really cool projects.
I do know what you mean about IT pro-fess-ion-als. I know a lot of them, some of whom do happen to be "MIS majors." But the two are definitely not mutually exclusive.
jbase is better than sap lacks applications tho.
Such as SAP? SAP has announced R3 for Linux. It's old news.
I think the usage of OSS software is vastly greater than anyone thinks... Perhaps not in industrial quantities, but little servers here and there... There are millions of businesses in the world, and I would imagine nearly all of them of any size have at least one OSS product in use... Eh. Trash thought. Don't underestimate the amount of interest in OSS around the world.
I'm not sure jBASE qualifies as ERP, a term referring to software covering a whole range of business processes and usually requiring some business process re-engineering in order to implement it. ERP vendors include SAP, Baan, J.D. Edwards, etc.
Having said that, it's still an impressive win for Linux.
This is interesting, but from my reading their Linux implementation is just a stop-gap temporary solution to get off the old MD hardware. Sounds like they have not yet picked their ERP software which they will eventually move over the Pick stuff to (they are running Pick on top of Linux at this point, apparently).
Wonder who it will be? SAP?
So Linux is chosen because it needs a less powerful machine to run a legacy app, is this right?
I'd much rather see the ERP vendors port.
-Luk-
Seems to me they are mixing up things very badly here. Hardware, OS, applications, who cares? Kind of like the "What OS are you using? -- Word." people. I hope the guys who made the decision to migrate are better informed.
It seems to me that this is a very brave move by Kenwood. Quoting from the article:
In other words, they first decided on Linux and only then they try to find a software package. Very brave, given the uneven support for Linux among the vendors.
What ERP packages support Linux?
Is this the start of a new trend? Companies goes Linux for the OS and the software applications will have to follow? That would be a Good Thing.
Hi!
According to the article, Kenwood chose Linux for very intelligent reasons; not because Linux has become the latest IT fad. Their people considered all of the server choices out there and picked the one that best fit their needs.
Choice is good. Go Linux.
Happy computing!
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Man, why can't we get a company that's not on the verge of bankruptcy to endorse our movement?
Sun, Corel, Kenwood Speakers? For crying out loud, Linux is starting to look like that last refuge for loser companys.
Not everybody reads /. If Linux is to get past the FUD it must show success. Why do you think beer companies keep running the same add over and over again? The Chicago Tribune ran an article about Gnome and KDE incompatibilty(not a bit true but there it was). This my be why Linux will not win and why IBM found itself left in the dust. Companies like Microsoft never stop promoting,never. Do not assume Linux is at any stage. So if you have heard it 100 times then the average joe has heard it once. Linux FUD will keep rolling it you can bet on that.
What do you expect from a GUI anyway? GUIs take resources thats life. I found that KDE is better than most. I do not think Gnome is bad either unless you use Enlightenment(yes a hog). I tend to agree on StarOffice but try to point out the unnecessary hogging of resources, MS is the champ on this one.
'nuff said. Read the other reply.
There is a way to prevent windows explorer (basically the windows GUI) from loading. I've done it with games before, on old hardware to save RAM. Basically with a quick registry hack, you boot up and load another executable instead of explorer.exe. Drivers, networking and services all load the same as usual.
Do what I do. I run the peoplesoft client on Win98 using VMWARE. Also, use the (damn) citrix metaframes also. Works fine and my Windows never crashes. PS. Don't try to let vmware use your current windows partition. You will have nothing but problems.
a real zero.
In reply to your comments about the various ERP vendors supporting Linux, let me add the following about Peoplesoft (yes, they're my employer):
...
...
PeopleSoft currently supports the use of Linux as a DB server as long as you're running a certified version of your RDBMS.
From what I know (which may not be much as I work in a completely different area) we are planning to fully support Linux once we get a proper version of Tuxedo on Linux (the current one still seems to have some technical issues)
No, this is not an official Peoplesoft statement; this is my view of Peoplesoft's Linux position
It's important because of familiarity. As you so rightly say about BSD, more familiar people are with something, the more likely they are to specify it. And businesspeople have the power of the purse, so their first idea is to use a system similar to what they have on the desktop: Windows.
That's the reason for the rise of Windows in the server space. A businessperson probably knows a drone-style-programmer who can do VB, and ASP is basically moving VB to the server.
The only way to counteract this is to encourage Unix in the desktop, in my view. Make people more familiar with it, and they're more likely to specify it when the time comes to do a server-based system.
D
----
It's funny how no one on Slashdot has even looked at Windows 2000 server. There are so many new features in it compareed to NT 4 SP 6 it is mind blowing. It also features a lot of advanced features that Linux can't touch. Once again I'll say I really support Linux but lets get a clue here and use the facts not flex the open source ego...
The last point is, I think, interesting. Quoting from the article:
So, I wonder, is DNS and e-mail the ultimate "killer apps" for Linux that will finally propel it into the IT departments across United States and the rest of the world?
Hi!
Another variation of the x company adopts Linux theme. Is anyone else bored by this? Linux has passed the novelty phase. We don't need to be constantly reminded that it is viable. The folks at Microsoft must laugh when they read stuff like this.
I think you meant Silicon Graphics and not Sun.
I highly doubt some of the claims they made. The whole thing about 6-8 hours for w aindows box and vitrualy instant for Linux... They are doing something different to get the same job done in this case... very misleading... The two-four processor is quite a fib too... I doubt this figure very much.
See also the article The "Lintel" Value Proposition on the same site.
It makes an interesting read and basically argues the same point: you get more "bang for your hardware buck" with Linux.
Good stuff; should be required reading by all IT decision makers.
Hi!
Well...consider this: If it's good for the losers, why shouldn't it be good for the winners? Maybe it's better to have failing companies switch over to Linux and then come out better because of it. Then there could be nifty commercials..."We switched to Red Hat Linux...shouldn't you?" :) Or maybe it's best to just do our best(well...all most of us can do is sit around and use it and complain about bugs)and let things fall where they may. It's better to let people do what they want rather than force someone elses' intentions upon them.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
One major company after another. This next year is gonna be a lot of fun.
Lets see if W2K can be anything more than a warmed over NT4 Service Pack 6. If it isn't, Microsoft is far more screwed than any of the MSFT shareholders apparently realize.
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!
In a company as HUGE as IBM with so many buisness units, there is bound to be some point where one group goes one way while another goes another.
The fact is IBM loves Linux for the simple fact that they have all of this wonderful product that works only on their expensive AIX Unix workstations. With the advent of BSD and Linux, they can now push those products out onto a super cheap and super prevailent x86 platform(a platform which they don't have to worry about maintaining no less!).
Of course, there is another buisness unit that is interested in selling x86 hardware with Win2K on it. In both cases, this doesn't mean that IBM has a company wide policy of liking one OS or another.
I can feel it in my bones.
Microsoft is on the way out. But not in the near future, mind. They have too much money, power, and control to be shunned out by Linux.
But we are seeing the beginning of it. Hotmail has moved to Solaris, after technicians said "We tried hard to get it on NT, but it wouldn't work". High-profile sites like the UK Royal Family and the CCTA have since moved to Linux.
Now it is Kenwood's turn.
I would expect the multiplier effect to get even greater with the release of Desktop OS's like Corel Linux, making Linux that much easier for the average user.
Microsoft's days are numbered.
Jx
- I am King of the Hill. That Hill is the Perl Hill, the Computer Science Hill or the Blustery Intellectual Hill, depending on which slightly different Hill makes it clearer that I'm King of It. In short, I am King of the Hill by definition, so don't bother attempting to dispute it.
You're welcome.Now, some people have suggested that there might be other hills to be King of. To be King of these Hills, you must read the sports page, have an MBA, be interested in commerce or, in some other way embrace a world view that deviates from mine. Don't fall for it! Their hills are not The Hill (of which only I am King). In order to show that their hills are of no value, I shall mock them and call them clever names. Seriously, we all know that "secretaries, librarians, or data entry clerks" aren't fully qualified human beings. Give me a break.
Do I mention I'm King of the Hill? Oh look! My masturbatory post has been moderated way up. It's good to be the King.
My nick, ERPbridge, is for Einstein Rosen Podolsky bridge (IOW, an interdimensional wormhole, like in Sliders).
Just an interesting coincidence that this article mentions ERP in a different aspect.
My theory is that we can continue using the command line stuff as long as there is a Unix, and the people who hate command lines can use the GUI.
I didn't imply that the GUI would blend together seamlessly with the command line, or that you could easily automate GUI stuff. But you can use the existing interfaces to automate tasks.
The big problem I see in the present state of computing is that we're making simple things complex in a quest to make complex things simple. In the end, simple winds up not even being an option, and that's an enormous regression from the Unix way.
For instance, C programmers under Unix can do a three line plus include files hello, world. It will be command line only, but it gets people started. C++ programmers in Windows use a Wizard to generate a 500 line mess that nobody understands. I find it mind-boggling, but my sense is that most people learning programming on Windows don't understand what the hello, world windows program works or what it does. This is bound to result in a brick wall and far less of an appetite for programming in the future.
I suspect that's a major reason for your desire to not even learn Windows as we see it. And I must agree with you, even though I've been doing all too much in the way of Windows stuff over the past few years. I don't particularly want to understand it either, and that inevitably limits my skills and chances for advancement. I'm hoping the recent rise of Unix/Linux will fix this for me - I'm getting an increasing number of Linux jobs.
D
----
- Use a real name next time, and maybe you'll get a real answer.
I think his failure to obtain a real answer is due in large part by his failure to address a real person. Instead, he engaged a paranoid, bitter and infantile egomaniac. Results were as one would expect.It's nice to see that people are creating the ability for people to migrate from other software platforms to linux easily. From the little bit of information I saw about the Pick software they were using, its surprising this migration ability exists.
Check out the new case I made up on my webpage there, just click on the comptuers section and let me know how you like it!
-S
Scott Ruttencutter
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Interesting how this works.
Someone wants to quickly set up a DNS server, so they grab a rusty PC and install Linux, instead of buying a pricy UNIX machine or buying a copy of Windows NT.
This seems lets people get aquainted to Linux and consider it for larger applications.
I've seen this happens elsewhere too.
Pick was originally developed as a business information tool that ran on bare hardware. Ports took months and were only available for a very few platforms. About 10 years ago, Pick and a number of clones (Ardent UniVerse, etc) began porting to Unix. In the past five years they ported to NT. Recently they ported to Linux.
The Pick environment runs as a shell on these Ports.
The problem with legacy Pick (like McDonnell Douglas) is that there is no connectivity to the outside world. The only way to get data into and out of it is via 9-track tape and serial port, typically. Any modern Pick shell running on Unix or NT would beat this easily. Can you say samba?
One of the features of Pick is it non-first-normal form database structure, using strings with delimiters to store all data. This is extremely flexible, and something that Kenwood is not going to leave. jBase incorporates this structure. They will probably be able to leave their application software largely unaltered.
Pick does have an interesting similarity to Linux. The early ports to Intel hardware had 8 serial lines running off a 286, blowing away DOS and Windows for speed.
Another interesting bit of trivia - this ancient McDonnell Douglas system incorporates the date windowing that was recently the subject of a patent. This isn't a recent development - they've been using this windowing for 25 years!
More info at the Pick FAQ
Had you read the article, you would have realised that the "old setup" was using serial for connectivity, and moving to linux would eliminate this (read ethernet / dsl). Obviously it would take hours move megs of data over serial, would only take seconds on ethernet. This is what they were referring to.
That's why I searched around their site looking at their radios. I found lots of neat products that connect to almost anything, such as portable radios with integrated digital cameras. Fun stuff!