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2.4 Gigabit Network Demoed
coaxial writes: "At SuperComputing '99, the fastest network in the world, 2.4 gigabits, was built between the University of Washington and Microsoft's Redmond campus thanks to the DARPA-sponsored National Transparent Optical Network (NTON), the university's Pacific/Northwest Gigapop, and Nortel.
You can read all about it from the NCSA now apart of The Alliance . " Cool, MP3's and DECSS'd DVD movies at the speed of the light.
Hey
This isn't meant to be offensive to the Slashdot crew or Nathan in particular, and I understand that the comment added to the news posting was most likelt humorous in nature. But: Do you guys think that
> Cool, MP3's and DECSS'd DVD movies at the speed of the light.
is a good impression to give to non-hacker types reading Slashdot? (hacking, not cracking) Of course, lots of nerdy techies like myself
But many of the industry people who do read Slashdot and try to form an opinion of Open Source (Unreal and Q3 developers, for instance, both of whom have posted here previously), will form the opinion that we're just a bunch of immature geeks who'll steal their software, if necessary.
Again, I know the comment was probably meant to be funny - but guys, we aren't alone here anymore. 'Suits' and industry people read Slashdot, and their opinion counts if we want to bring proper DVD support to Linux, for instance. Or if we want full Linux support for games, etc.
We're in a phase right now where everything that happens to Linux really, really matters. Let's not throw it away by acting childishly, and fitting into the 'zealot geek' stereotype many would like to categorise us as.
Sorry, Nathan - this really isn't a flame against you.
Alex
"Your telnet is talking to itself. Welcome to the wacky world of TCP/IP."
It was almost a year ago that frontier globalcenter turned up the first OC-48 Packet Over Sonet link between SF and LA, so this is less than impressive. That link was turned up into a production network, using Cisco GSR routers (which will take OC-48 POS cards with no sweat). I don't see where these people get off saying this is the first application.
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OC-192 POS, on the other hand, would be something nice and new
good. fast. cheap. (pick any two, you can't have all three)
Well, I believe there have been several 100 gigabit fibers running the entire width of the country for quite some time. Maybe if Microsoft does it it's supposed to be an innovation but Microsoft is really only one company. There are many other companies building networks much faster than Microsoft's.
That's a pretty misleading statement. The M40 uses ASICs to route packets directly, so the OS kernel isn't involved most of the time. Also, the M40 doesnt's seem to run a standard BSD kernel.
More generally, let's please get over this notion that every OS needs to be best at everything. Making one OS do everything is Bill Gates's obsession and is, in a large part, responsible for the bloat and complexity of that operating system. If Win2k wants to become a backbone router with a Win32 GUI, an incompatible CORBA clone at its heart, and a built-in relational database, good for it, and good luck to the programmers at Microsoft.
I'm pretty happy with Linux network performance the way it is. I'm sure Linux will keep pace with the performance of standard networking hardware and software.
Much of what you say is true. Artist do have to be fed somehow, and the current system DOES work to create creativity and innovation, at least to some extent. There is no doubt a lot of good music drowning in the one hundred times more plentiful crappy music (though you are wrong when you speak of the margins being used for unprofitable artists, music companies only sign artist for profit, though sometimes the gamble turns out wrong (and trust me, you will get dropped)).
If things were all equal, I think I might vote for keeping the current system. But things are not all equal. Copyrights are at odds with the information society, and some of the things that the industries dependant on them are doing are clearly dangerous to liberty on the Internet and our society.
On a free Internet, piracy is going to become easier and easier, and more people ARE going to do it. There is no solution to this bar wing clipping the very nature of the Net or trying to make the punishments high enough, and lock up enough kids, that people will keep away from it by fear.
As such, we have to start looking for options. When I talk about the endless Backstreet clones of the music industry it is not because I think that is reason enough to kill it: but because I think people need to be reminded that the current system is not perfect. Many people simply take IP for granted to the point where they believe it to be a right: it is not a right, it is a construction, and far from the ideal solution to its problem (fostering creation and innovation) at that.
Of course we will need to feed our artists. But there other ways to do this. I cannot tell the future, but I am convinced that as long as there is demand for their art in society they will be fed. Perhaps it will be sponsorship (if an artist endorses Pepsi, it is there interest that as many people be listening to him as possible), perhaps it will be along the lines of opensource (where art evolves independant of one single person needing to be paid), or perhaps artists will be more at the mercy of benevolant fans (if 500,000 people download your album, and 10% send you one dollar, you are making a decent living). Perhaps it will be all of the above. Or none. But whatever we do, we need to recognize that not stepping on our liberties in the process is the most important thing of all.
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
Win2k could handle it, but it would spend 99.95% of its CPU time handling the IO, with that .05% of CPU time left, maybe you could use edlin...
BSD can already handle it, check out the Juniper Networks M40. Its FreeBSD based, and can already handle a terabit, pretty snazzy stuff.
To be honest, when testing Linux Gigabit stuff, it couldn't touch my BSD systems for throughput or PPS. I had 6 boxes (all exactly the same) plugged into a Cisco 3500 Gig-switch, Two with Linux, Two with FreeBSD, Two with OpenBSD. Doing a lil bit of throughput testing between the FreeBSD/OpenBSD boxes left Linux in the dust. Kinda dissapointing see how much CPU the Linux boxes were using too.
Not nearly as bizzare as mounting a Linux ext2fs file system as 'sync' rather than the default. Get bonnie to write out a 1GB file and you'll be waiting for *HOURS* on a U2W 10k 9GB drive.
You argue that copyright law has nothing to do with the creation of art, and point out Linux as an example... but even the GPL'd code in Linux is copyrighted. I don't think the problem is with copyright in and of itself. It has more to do with how the copyright holder uses that copyright. Yes, the RIAA and MPAA use their copyrights to make vast sums of money and limit access to the material, but it doesn't have to be that way.
All the people attacking the concept of copyright would do well to back up and make sure they've got the right target in their sights.
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I expect good books will still get written, great art will still get made, great software will still be engineered, with or without this IP crap.
If you are "lucky", the economy will generate something much more efficient than the "free market" defined by copyright law and patents. There will be gobs of cash available for those who know how to direct focus groups and shift paradigms: don't worry, you'll be able to watch more great, soul-searching films like "Titanic", "Jurassic Park", and "Lion King" and listen to great, ground-breaking music like N-Sync, BackStreet Boys, Menudo, and Brittany Spears.
Have no fear. There will be plenty of great ways to make your mind turn to tapioca and make millionaires and billionaires out of people willing to tell the public what they need, quality be damned.
NGI side of things, there's a faster (2.5Gbps) pipe between San Fransisco and LA built by our friends at MCI as part of their vBNS+ network.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
No, you are totally wrong here. If the record companies were knowingly putting out music that they don't expect to profit off, I will go buy a stock in Sony and then sue the fuck out of them. Public companies do not, should not, and can not act benevolently.
The reason for the companies agressively funding new bands is just the high level competition: they are always scared shitless to pass up on the next thing. I love your example of using Christina Aguilera as the new artist, since she is the perfect example of the bad side. Everything but a young creative talent who got a chance, she is more the result of record company thinking "Hey, we ought to put out a star like Britney Spears since that worked so well."
As far as classical and jazz recordings go, they simply budget the very, very low. Producing cds is so cheap (and even studio technology nowadays), that minus promotion putting out album that only sells 10,000 copies can still be a good idea. Here in Sweden there is a thriving Swedish language music scene, yet only a little under 9 million people in the world are possibly interested in that. They generally sell as little or less than American classical cds, but it is still possible to make a profit off that.
Interestingly, many people consider Beck to be one of the most important artists of the ninetees. You know why? Because he had a hit with "Looser" before he signed a record deal, and then afterwards played the companies against one another (instead of falling for the spiced up rip off offers most new artists get, for example TLC who got so little they went bankrupt the year that "Crazy, Sexy, Cool" sold 10 million copies) and got complete control over his music from square one. NiN and Pearl Jam are, interestingly, other examples of bands that were lucky enough to get good deals (NiN are on their own label) that have allowed them a lot more freedom then most bands have. And your right about these bands not making the most money (Pearl Jam haven't had a monster hit since Ten, and NiN have never been real profitable) for the studios. Artist like N'sync and Britney Spears, who the companies can sell 10 million bland albums by, throw them a few scraps (cars and fucks and glittery parties), and then throw them back in the studio to record more music on the companies terms are.
We are moving into the information age. Making information, replicating information, and spreading information is not so remarkable any more. The companies that have done the latter two can not expect that they can keep a profitable monopoly over it any more (as someone at the base of this string said "they'll have to wake up and realize its all just bits"), and the people that have done the former have to understand that the dynamics of their role is about to change: greatly.
You cannot stop the world, no matter how much you like it.
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
Yes, you said that already. I understand all this: profits from sure selling artists are used to fund risky artists, the companies do this because most of their sure selling artists were risky artists at one time or another. The current system does work to produce new music, some of it even innovative, no doubt, only its effiency can be doubted (and we really have no reference to compare it too).
Now you understand the core question here: the current system is not sustainable in the information society. Anyone who advocates for the continued use of copyrights is going to have to answer to how you are going to police them in the connected future without turning the Internet into a police state. You can argue yourself silly about how well the current system works today in it will do you no good: instead you should be asking yourself how well it will work in 10 years when most people have broadband connectivity and will be able to download an album illegally in minutes...
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
but, saying things like "Cool, MP3's and DECSS'd DVD movies at the speed of the light." doesn't really help our credibility. I mean, the greatest fear of the MPAA is that bandwidth will get to the point where entire DVDs can easily be pirated from computer to computer...
:)
Ok, the comment was probably tongue in cheek, but still... do you *enjoy* taunting lawyers?
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With 24 100MBs cards and 128 processors serving up 20,000,000 static pages a second to a little old lady who was having problems getting the mouse to work.
Here in Canada we already have the fastest real-life internet-like network, with 80gbps of bandwidth (and still getting faster), thousands of kilometers of fiber, 9 access points, AND MSFT didn't put a penny in it!
This demoed network is like a 14.4 access to internet compared to CA*Net3.
#DEFINE QUESTION (2b)||(!2b) -- William Shakespeare
I noticed that were several comments floated by some of the Microsoft mouthpieces stating that this demo proved the viability of Win2000 as an OS that can handle broadband networks/applications. Exactly what does Win2000's TCP/IP stack have anything to do with this demo? Are they trying to imply that any other OS' stack wouldn't fare well in a similar demo? It doesn't sound right to me but I don't know much about Win2000's stack.
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
"There are no shortcuts to any place worth going."
"Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work." -Flaubert
Going to risk the karma to say its actually impressive that Windows 2K could handle this. My somewhat educated but unfounded guess would be current stable Linux kernels couldn't do it, but the *BSDs have a pretty good chance.
OK, so it probably wouldnt have worked, but "imagine playing quake on that thing"
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
SLight bit of misinformation here...The fastest net in the world was at supercomputing, but it was not the oc-48 between MS and SC99. It was the LAN, which was multiple OC-192's, each wavelength multiplexed with 10 wavelengths. They could have gone higher, but as one of my coworkers stated, "they didn't need to and were feeling lazy". It was fricking insane (I was there). BTW, this wasn't some theoretical net, this was actually implemented complete with routers. As my coworker, who helped implement it said, "It's the hottest network on earth."
;)
In addition, many other things that were at SC99 will be of interest to the Slashdotters. One was the incredible number of Beowulfs. The real world computing partnership had a ~30 node one, SGI had a 32 node one, VALinux had a 16 node one, Argonne, LBNL, and LNL all had VaLinux clusters as well. Dell had parts of one to go to PNL. Lots of clusters. There was a Cray T3, many Onyx 2's and several other large systems.
One of the neatest things I saw was a Sun e450 w/ 2 gigs of ram and 4 processors. It powers 26 Sunrays with netscape, StarOffice and Smart cards. It ran extrememly fast, as it took all 26 going hog wild before I noticed a slowdown.
Another neat thing was this thing that all I can remember is the software, called DomeGL. Basically, they take a wide angle lens that can project without focal loss across a 180 degree hemisphere, project it inside a hemispherical dome in a darkened room and it gives a strong illusion of 3d, even without shutter glasses.
Lets see...lots of stuff for the big computers (ASCI Red, Blue Pacific, etc), a robot name sprocket controlled rather directly that spoke ina rather saucy voice, IBM's new display that has 200 pixels per inch and displays at (cannot remmeber exact, but this is close) 2640x2048, which, I was told, is just inside the visual accuity range of a 20/20 vision adult, demos of everyones stuff, compaq's alpha clusters with their optimized gcc, Alta's clusters, and all sorts of other stuff. If you ever get a chance to help set up, I highly recommend it. I got the opportunity because my employer is an exhibitor, but they do have volunteers
As for some of the nontechnical stuff, IBM threw a party in the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. Very nice, and lots of fun for geeks. On Wednesday night, VALinux threw a party at the Lucky Labrador, a brew pub. Good grub and free beer. SGI and SUn also had parties but they were the same night as IBM and I didn't go. I also did not get to go to any of the technical program, but I hear it was very good .
I was gonna write up an official report and send it in, but someone beat me to it
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --