Slashdot Mirror
Y2K Movie Followup: The Slashdot Effect Gone Wrong
Addition: 11/30 by michael : I thought I'd chime in here, since I started the fracas.
Blaming the ISP is sometimes appropriate, and sometimes not. Huge national ISPs have legal staffs to evaluate whether something should or should not be pulled. In general, they display an astonishing lack of backbone in defending customer sites, because even minor hassle from law enforcement just isn't worth it to them, and they don't have much excuse when they knuckle under. Small ISPs are a much different matter. No legal staff, facing the loss of your entire business if you guess wrong. Let's say he stood up for this guy and refused to pull the site, and the FBI seized the ISP's computers. Would all you flamers have stood up for him, sent him money to fight the good fight, talked to his other customers and begged them to stay on even though their sites were down? Yeah, sure you would. He made the best business decision available to him. The difference between this guy and one of the national ISPs is that they wouldn't have put the site back up again at all.
And if Wired has it right and you people are writing to the ISP's other clients, that's just sad. Save your anger for someone who's actually done something wrong. You want to get pissed off, give the FBI a call and ask them how their "investigation" is going.
There are many many arguments surrounding this whole issue... but in my opinion the 2 main ones are:
1) Nothing is effective unless it is constructive, this goes for criticism, conversation, relationships *anything*. Flaming is a pointless excersize and a complete waste of energy. Think of it from a simple point of view, surely it is so much better for both sides if the energy put into the argument was of a positive nature rather than negative. Not to mention the simple aspect of respect. - It's all be forgotten about on the web, primarily IMO because you are faceless and it's very unlikely you will get any comeback. Unlike IRL!
2) Dumbing down.... are we really getting more stupid??? Are we unevolving into chimps who don't understand subtleties anymore. Where satire and humor is lost totally? After all it was a satirical movie and if people decide to get scared about it then what are we to do. Is pulling it really the answer?
It's a strange situation, but one which is happening everywhere. TV, politics, almost everything has been dumbed down for the masses. It's a disturbing trend.
I have no easy answers, but the whole thing worries me deeply. It has such far reaching consequences not just to do with privacy and rights, but on a much more basic human interaction level.
Well, well. So it did work. People have complained that the ISP didn't stand for freedom of speech and it gave them a spine. Frankly, Weiger is trying to play the victim here. Saying stuff like, 'Oh, but we're just a lil' company, it wasn't our fault.' Yeah. But it's never anybody's fault when freedom of speech is concerned. You pull content from a website, and you're claiming you're just paying the rent. What you're doing next is approving of massive censorship in the name of passivity.
How do you think the Nazis pulled it off? Not one worker ever killed Jews en masse: the only thing they did is pull a lever, drive a locomotive, show the Jews to the gas chamber. I'm not saying genocide and censorship are of the same scale; I'm saying that in both cases, institutions promoting them hope everyone involve will say, 'Well, I didn't really do anything.'
Like I said, flames is never the solution. But making your voice heard is. In the light of the conclusion of this story, the Slashdot effect, civilised or not, did have a positive effect. I'm not endorsing it, but... Well, you gotta wonder.
I propose a new modding category:
"What the..."
Question is, do you make it a positive or negative mod? Either way, that's what I'd have to mod this. It's definitely the strangest post I've seen on Slashdot yet. It'd be a shame to mod it down, but it kind of deserves it (it's offtopic, after all).
It's not going to do one bit of good. It *can't*. Because in any crowd, there's always going to be *some* flamers writing nastygrams. It's not because Slashdotters are particularly rude, it's simply because the huge number of responses means that even a vanishingly small percentage of flamers will still produce enough of them for a news article or a section on a web site. If Wired *wants* to run a story about nasty flamers, they will, even if the flamers are only 0.01 of all the replies--you can't stop them. The media likes to sensationalize.
Telling people here not to be rude, in an attempt to avoid situations like the Wired article, is like getting a bin of ten thousand apples and expecting there not to even be a single bad one. It doesn't work that way.
In a suffiently large group of people, there are idiots. Some are true idiots, some are half idiots tipped over the line for a momemnt, and some are just ok people who happened to have a bad day or overeact to a story and act stupidly. Most of us try to control ourselves and think things over before we say them, but some people are better at that then others.
In my opinion, Michael jumped the gun the other day when he started painting id and John Carmack out to be evil, when in fact the lack of documentation on the disabling of the hardware string was just an oversight. He wasn't flaming profanities by any means, but I would assume that him writing for slashdot must mean somebody thinks of him as a rather levelheaded and thoughtful dude. And if even the most levelheaded of us can overeact on issues we are emotional about, should we really be surprised that there are others who do so more often, and with less grace?
I'm sure there isn't a reader here who hasn't overeacted and flamed someone unecesarily at one time or another. A few years ago I made a vow never again to send an email while I am angry because of trouble that had gotten me into. Its a good rule that I try to apply even today (though older and wiser), but not even it is foolproof.
Now onto my real point: given the size of the Slashdot community, and compared with other communities I have taken part in on the Internet, the flames emerging from us have been rather benign. We have been through this with somebody posting the examples of horrible mails they have recieved from Linux users and Slashdot readers a number of times now, and my surprise has always been at how mild the flames actually are. In my Usenet days I once had a person I had been arguing with over some pitiful subject post hundreds of messages to a popular group with subject lines containing explicit sexual insults about me. Just an idiot, they happen, and I certainly did not attack or blame the majority of the subscribers of the group.
The nature of free expression is that stupid things are said. The redeeming quality is that the smart things are more plentiful, more provocative, and more important.
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
I know what you mean.. There is a comforting feeling to get that dose of 'Petrified/Grits' along with the regular commentary. Kind of like the moronic poking/prodding/slapping bit the Three Stooges did; Moe always won, Curly always got it the worst, and we always laughed.
I must say that 'Mr. Petrified' has gone above and beyond his usual effort for this one. He's moving beyond the standard one-line 'xxxx xxxxx NAKED AND PETRIFIED'. Either that, or we're seeing a new 'Mr. Petrified'.
Keep up the good work!
.sig: Now legally binding!
So the more over-reactionary elements of slashdot have over-reacted
(again) sent useless flames Wieger instead of well-informed
objections to the FBI.
This article nearly overwhelmed me with deja vu.
Now, now people. We are all familiar with slashdot. We are all
familiar with how easy it is to be immature on the Internet. We all
know how easy it is to misunderstand these things and get mad at the
wrong party.
I think the most likely chain of events was became obvious when the
original article was posted on slashdot.
We all knew this was going to happen
What I don't know is why wired thinks this is news.
After I read that wired article, I (once again) wished I hadn't given
wired's hit counters one more little boost that (a) they don't
deserve, and (b) will encourage them to become still more
sensationalist, continuing their transformation from a typical lousy
computer magazine to the Enquirer of the net.
It is certainly regrettable that these things happen. It is worth
pointing out that slashdot at least tries to apologize and convince
its more over-reactionary members to be better behaved next time.
But news? Come now. This happens all the time.
Slashdot can be forgiven for posting a link to this article because
they are trying to apologize (A Good Thing(tm), even if it doesn't
change the behavior of slashdot's more reactionary readers).
Oh, btw the way, if share my opinion, moderate me up. If you don't,
moderate me down. Encourage like-mindedness.
Go ahead and moderate this one down if you want, but I think it needs to be said.
/. has done an awful lot of posts that are just fanning the flames, and what's really wrong is that this is generally done without looking into the issue at all.
/. has grown, and grown huge, and with the growth should really come some responsibility.
/. started, it was perfectly reasonable for Rob to just post some pointers to stories on other sites; it was more of a personal thing, like sending e-mail to friends. But now slashdot has really become a news service, but still refuses to adopt the responsibility that news services should have; the responsibility to at least try to independently verify a story before publishing it.
/. had tried to contact the people involved before posting the story. And in many cases, the commentary on the /. posting has turned out to be plain ol' wrong.
/. (at least I don't), but a minimal re-checking of the source is a pretty reasonable expectation.
Lately,
/. used to be a small site, that basically gave 'sightings' rather than stories. But
When
The last few weeks have seen a lot of stories that would have read very differently if
It's easy to blame the flamers for getting out of control, but at some point slashdot has to accept the responsibility for what is posted here by the staff. When somebody like CNN posts a story without checking the facts, everyone here gets very upset. Slashdot has grown to the point where they should begin adopting the same kind of journalistic integrity they insist from others.
Nobody expects a full private investigation into stories from
And what's the crap about a "rogue government agency"??? If such an agency existed and produced a video, why shouldn't it be put on web sites?
As usual, it seems like the FBI is going way overboard in their zeal to "protect" us. Welcome to the police state.