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New Yorker Accidentally Gets $1M WebTV Prototype
An anonymous reader sent us to a story that chats about a shipping error causing a million dollar WebTV prototype to get shipped to a NY Bank employee. The creepy part is that the NYPD apparently tracked the package down. I guess I should be thankful the HPD isn't knocking on my door asking about that crate of Transmeta CPUs that somehow got shipped here by mistake last week.
heres my email to john about this situation so he can print it with the really cool column hes gonna write. (Im not real smert so i cant find his email address)
Hey John!
Yrr sure right, it's reel bad that microsoft can imfluence the government this way. Heck if i had lots of money like that evil billy i sur wouldnt try telling the police to find a verry expensive prototype of somethin i lost no i wouldnt. I also agree wit ya that microsoft is to big and is bad for us all because theyr bad people and big companys are bad for us because theyr bad and stuff. Oh one more thing i wanted to tell you that i think it would be bad if some high school nerds that play doom and quake and stuff went and worked for microsoft because then microsoft would be relly bad and try to kill people but it wouldnt be our fault it would be because of all those bad teachers that dont like nerds that play doom and think that theyre all murderers and stuff. I almost forgot i gotta say another thing here. thanks a lot for those cool hellmouth articles thet ya rote for us here at slashdot they were relly cool and i learned a lot about how bad people are now and how its the fault of those bad teachers that dont like us nerds because we play quake and doom and stuff.
your friend,
dale.
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Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
At first read, this whole story sounds like an Urban Legend. Million-dollar piece of equipment turns up in NYC, so NYC's Finest tracks it down, breaks down the door & takes it back. They even manage to track it down to recipient's father's apartment, where they brought the missing equipment only a few moments before.
;-)
The only thing that kept me from entirely dismissing this story was the fact they had a name for the recipient. And that fact made me wonder what the WHOLE story was.
And now that RedX has uncovered it, & shared the link to it with us, case closed.
Boy, what Urban Legend will next appear about Microsoft? Will we hear about a certain video tape BillG & his wife made turning up at a Redmond Blockbuster? Perhaps it will recount how the Mrs brought Billg to, uh, a successful compile by reciting the SAT scores of female Microsoft employees?
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Are you for real? The article quotes at least three people: Posner, a named NYPD spokesman and a named MS spokesperson. Granted, the NY Times occasionlly makes a factual error, but they do not make up stories from whole cloth.
Yes, some people celebrate Hannukah by exchanging presents. I've known women who have been confined to bed for weeks before delivery. There are many reasons why. There are also reasons why ordinary people are leery of opening their door to the police. I am also quite willing to believe that MS told the NYPD that it was worth $1 million in order to recover it whether or not you accept that valution.
A little healthy skepticism is a good thing, just don't overdo it.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Even more interesting, as the author noted, was how Micros~1 managed to get the NYPD to knock on this guy's door to retreive the package even 'though no crime was committed. Do they really have that much clout? God help us all if so :)
The news report I read (and let us keep in mind that the above-linked article is not a news report) said that fould play *was* suspected, that someone may have deliberately relabeled the box in order to steal it. Even if they have eliminated that possibliltiy now, it was clearly a possibility at the time, and thus the involvement of the NYPD in securing what might have been stolen property was entirely proper. Of course, one could suppose that MS knew from the beginning that there was no crime involved, and made it appear that a crime was involved in order to get the NYPD's help, but there's no indication of inappropriate behavior on the NYPD's end. In other words, they don't have to definitively establish that a crime was committed before they start helping recover the missing item- they are, after all, an investigative body as well as a law-enforcement organization.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
Do we have any true confirmation, or is this just more word of mouth stuff? I mean, there are a lot of more plausible sounding urban legends on this site.
Let's analyse this: Big corporation X, which many people don't understand, and has been recently confirmed to have been doing evil things, has an employee, who accidently sends package Y, which is worth 1,000,000 dollars. This person, Z, who is a complete innocent just trying to get his fair share from company X is shocked/scared/suprised as company X brings in the [Mafia|Police|Military] to get back its 1,000,000 dollars package. Lesson to be learned: really don't trust those large corporations, because they're all evil and secretly control the government.
" Has the NYPD now been reduced to foot soldiers that serve to correct simple clerical errors on behalf of corporate America? "
I don't know. I'd want a signed letter, compelete with a few forms of ID, from this Scott Posner fellow before I'd believe any of this in the slightest. This is an NT security rag^H^H^Hmag...
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
OK, maybe this is a non-anti-Microsoft post. Should be interesting.
Most people seem to be taking issue with the fact that the NYPD was called in to track down the prototype. This seemed like a Bad Thing/Big Brother/Corporation-Gov't conspiracy at first, I must admit.
But now that I've been thinking about it, maybe we're all succuming to a knee-jerk reaction here. Suppose Ford "accidentally" shipped their 2001 concept car prototype to Joe Bob in Topeka.
After the initial panic attack at Ford Corporate settled down, they'd look for the absolute fastest way to get that thing out of the open. Call the police, explain the situation. Then call the police commissioner, explain the situation. Then call the mayor, explain the situation.
In short, I think the inherent value of the box (well, its value to Microsoft) may justify the use of the police. As someone else posted, it isn't fair the the NY taxpayers picked up the tab, but those are the breaks. Capitalism sucks, but it's better than anything else.
--Mid
I suspect we're not getting the full story; if this is a legit story, then I would have to say that one of the following must be true:
(a) The secretary who "accidentally" sent the prototype did so intentionally, and the person it was sent to was suspected of being in cahoots.
(c) The secretary intentionally sent the prototype to that address, and then forwarded the address to whomever she was secretly working for. They went and picked it up wearing NYPD uniforms.
(c) Microsoft got a discount on some NYPD costumes from a local custome shop.
(d) One helluva bribe must've changed hands.
Anyone have any other ideas..?
James
FWIW I agree with your point that its over-reacting to see this as some sort of evidence of evil forces at work.
/. is so full of the narrow-mindedness that you imply? Why is it that just because SOME of the louder voices here are narrow minded, do you narrow-mindedly assume that ALL or even MOST are?
/. are NOT narrow minded M$ bashers/linux flag wavers. I happen to use both Microsoft products AND linux, and I use the ones for what I feel is the best use for each. I don't preach my usage, or bash others' views. Yes, Slashdot can be linux-centric but its a mistake to think that everyone here shares the same viewpoint.
/. because I like the up-to-date news and the varying viewpoints, both good and bad. I don't always agree, and other times I agree wholeheartedly, and not just with those with whom I am politically, morally, OSedly, and Languagedly aligned, sometimes I disagree, but it makes me think deeper on the subject. That is why I come here, to stimulate my brain, and try to keep current with what's going on. I think that maybe you do to, or you wouldn't be showing your frustration with the admittedly narrow-minded approach of some of /.'s citizens.
But...
I noticed that you are being moderated UP not down. How could that be if
, >but who really needs positive karma in a microcosm full of minds that run the gamut from >"closed" to "empty
I mean you are here, are you in that range of minds or an open thinking mind? You are getting positive karma because you had something intelligent to say, but the sarcasm wasn't necessary, and frankly it detracts from your otherwise excellent statement.
I am not attacking you viewpoint, but I am criticizing your tone.
The fact is that many readers of
I would be willing to bet that amongst the many many readers/posters at Slashdot you will find every major OS, Programming language, and machine architecture represented and advocated, along with countless smaller ones.
I continue to read and post at
Don't drop yourself down to the level of the thoughtless posters that annoy you by shotgunning mud over the entire readership. Your insights show that you are above that.
Best,
Logos
We are agents of the free
http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/listing.cgi?se lection=question
Believed to be False:
Major firms/gov't suppress evidence of a super great product(car, light,etc.) ["The Economical Car" in TVH and CBA]
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If I had received it, I wouldn't want M$'s prototype either. Too big for a doorstop, too heavy for a bookend, and too dorky to use. But I wouldn't give it back, just to keep them worried ;-)
It would seem that a better solution might have been for MS to send an employee from a nearby office (they must have a New York office), explain the situation and then give him a new unit and perhaps a couple of free months for the hassle.
The again would YOU open your door to some stranger claiming to be from MS? and if you happened to be a gun nut... (er collector)
Since your UID is smaller than mine, I can only conclude that you're trolling. -s20451 (410424)
... and I'm hearing what youre saying. by "full of [closed and empty minds]" I didn't mean to imply everyone was stupid or closed minded - I meant full as in "this store is full of groceries"; obviously it's not FULL, but there certainly are a lot of groceries.
:D
likewise, by calling this story classic slashdot anti-microsoft conspiracy trash, I didn't mean everything on slashdot is trash, because it isnt. I just meant that there exists here a large amount of antimicrosoft conspiracy trash, and this is some of it.
I realize theres interesting stuff/people here, and obviously thats why I read here and post occasionally. I said what I said so that people would know that I'm against what I was replying to.
Personally I';m surprised I'm being moderated up; more proof that those who are smart enough to realize that what they are saying is inflammatory are smart enough to put some comment into their flames.
I dunno, critisize my tone if you like, I'm a big boy and I can take it. I just thought I'd clarify my tone because I think you think I'm (slightly) more of an ass than I actually am. heh.
best to you too, vin
Didn't the article mention that he hadn't even opened the package yet?
-BrentWouldn't it be scary if Microsoft actually cared about public perception and handled situations like this a little better from a PR standpoint?
One scenario could have been microsoft special agent (and bodyguards
==freq
"Tension is the great integrity" -- R. Buckminster Fuller
Next time you receive such a package, just forward it to any electronics firm in Asia. LOL
I've heard about this law (and I read all of the sub-threads here clarifying it) regarding mail-order purchases, but what about direct purchases in a store?
Several years ago, I purchased a video card in a store in Silicon Valley. It looked like what I purchased, but in fact, had much higher spec memory than it the product that I meant to purchase (and thus was meant to have been sold at a much higher price). The store called me several days later, explained the mix up and asked me to return the item in exchange for the lower spec item that I meant to purchase. I did, of course, return it and received the slower cheaper version, but I often wondered if I needed to.
If you purchase something in a store, leave the store, and they find out that they sold you a more expensive item at a much lower price, are you obligated to return it if they request you to?
Usually they inflate the costs of these things if they're trying to get damages from someone (the word "E911" comes to mind). I'd be surprised if they weren't counting a large percentage of the R&D costs in that prototype.
s/he would have gotten as much info about it before having to turn it back in - like get lots of close up shots of the circuit boards, ROM dumps, case design, pull the ASIC's, (chips? what chips??) etc. just in case a potential competitor is, ahem, interested ($$). A rare opportunity.
Boojum
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
While the R&D cost could easily be $1M, the value of the actual unit itself is hardly more than a few thousand - the cost of a small PCB run or wire-wrap prototype. I would moderate this article as "Bullshit". Oh, I forgot, we can't moderate articles.. :-(
IANAL, but read the law you cite. That law does *not* say you can keep everything you receive in the mail (or via some other delivery service); it simply says that implied contracts where you "indicate consent" by accepting your mail are unenforceable and you are under no obligation to either pay the invoice or return the merchandise at your own expense. It's the same logic used to overturn the other notorious unilateral implied contracts - "shrinkwrap" software license.
You *can* be required to return the merchandise at the shipper's expense.
You *can* be required to return misdelivered merchandise to the delivery agent, so they can complete delivery.
But most importantly, this law doesn't apply because it wasn't invoiced merchandise and this individual was not the intended recepient.
As for the presence of the cops, that's probably just standard procedure when valuable deliveries go astray. It's wildly inappropriate here, but think about what's usually involved in megadollar value shipments. It's not unreasonable for the cops to wonder if there's a connection between the carrier, the recepient, and the missing diamonds.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Umm, sorry.. yes.. it *is* illegal for you to keep it. It's not rightfully yours just because it arrived in the mail in a package with your name on it.
You may be confusing a closely related 'rule'...
You are not obligated to send it back, or to track down the real owner, or to do anything, really.
This does not mean, though, that you own it!
Not true, I believe, however, what you are thinking of is a rule that prevents companies from reverse-marketing things to you... ie: mailing them to you then making it your responsibility to return the item or pay for it. The law (ianal) says you are not obligated to do either, simply because they sent it to you.
This does not cover things sent by accident.
I'm guessing the shipping computer Blue-Screened at an inopportune time.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
WinTV is a bt8x8-based video capture card manufactured by Hauppauge. WebTV is something completely different.
F0 07 C7 C8
[Bill Gates] Hey Rudy, how you doing?
[Rudy Gulianai] Ay, Not bad, just happy the subway situation didn't get out of hand
[BG] That's good. I was wondering, uh, umm, I sort of, um, lost a "computer" in the mail, I was wondering if you could track it down for me
[RG] Who is the carrier
[BG] United Parcel Services
[RG] Hmm... Yeah, I've had trouble with them too, why don't you just call them
[BG] Well, the damn operator would believe that the package was worth a million dollars
[RG] You shipped a @#$@#$ million dollar computer with UPS, you @#$@#$, are you completely out of your mind.
[BG] Yeah, I know, it was a stupid thing to do, but can you help me?
[RG] I'll see what I can do
-----Transmission Complete----- If you want to email me...Don't
The article cited in the /. summary does a horrible job of telling the story. Check out this article at the NY Times for a better recap. Seems the NYPD unit involved was the Computer Investigative Unit, which is certainly appropriate due to the fact that this was suspected industrial espionage. At the time, it was suspected that the shipping labels may have been intentionally switched in order to steal the device. In hindsight, the police did overreact since this turned out to be a mistake rather than industrial espionage. To be fair, they didn't know if they were knocking on the door of a pregnant wife (they were) or a corporate spy. Also, the device was in the hand's of the banker's father, who is an attorney. Regardless of our opinions of MS, a prototype of one of their more popular products that is more than a year from market probably is worth $1 million to them or their competitors, and when something like this ends up in NY rather than Seattle, you can bet there will be some pretty beefy law enforcement involved. I'm sure a similar case with a big company like GM, Ford, IBM, Apple, etc. would result in similar police response.
The million dollar valuation is the same one used to show how costly Kevin Mitnick's crimes were. And oh, remember that million dollar-ish document somebody dumpster-dove from a phone company, the one telling how to dial 911 or something? It probably cost MS over a megabuck to develop the new product, but the prototype was not, in and of itself, the thing of real value, and they probably lied to the PD in order to get them to do their dirty work for them.
That "million-dollar" valuation on the proto-board is, I fear, wholy specious. Whilst I'm sure MS spent $1M to produce the board, that cost was almost entirely spent on the _design_. Thus, if they lost the board, they only have to make another from the same design.
Now, a hand-stuffed custom board with a bunch of rework is still an expensive item (maybe $10-50K in engineer's time) and it's rare (they'll probably have a dozen or two of a given rev), but unless it's fabricated from pure gold, the board itself isn't hugely valuable.
It's also misleading to argue that, because the board embodies "trade secrets", its loss could cost the company millions of dollars - its a pretty opaque instanciation of a proprietary design, not that design itself. A prototype board is no more reverse-engineerable than is a production board, and no-one claims that by shipping production hardware they're losing valuable intellectual property.
## W.Finlay McWalter ## http://www.mcwalter.org ##
NY has a long and proud tradition of alienating businesses by severely taxing and regulating them until they flee to neighboring states. If NY has a claim to being "Centre Of The Universe", then it's only from a combination of having the UN, a bunch of kick-ass cultural institutions like museums and Broadway, and Wall Street.
Besides, Microsoft is located in Redmond, WA, and not NY. Do you really see Billy Gates waking up tomorrow and saying to himself: "You know, we really got some curteous service from those swell folk over there in New York. I think it's time we left Redmond and my friends in Boeing and moved cross-country so we can be closer to Riker's Island."
Or at least he wouldn't say it without downing a few strong ones first. Stay tuned for his New Year's eve celebration, I suppose.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Heck, just open your wallet and look at your fiat currency. Why does so many dollars buy you so much gold? Because someone, somewhere decided "Here is a piece of paper. It's worth a lot." Why are certain pieces of artwork worth so much at auction? Because someone, somewhere, decided "Here is a painting. It's worth a lot."
I myself take some personal comfort in thinking of WebTV as a bit of dadaist expression.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
MS got the NYPD involved because there was suspicion of industrial espionage. We laugh, sure, and maybe some people here overreact and say "no way that was worth $1M US!! MS is controlling the cops!", but most of us just enjoy mocking a large corporation for being so careless with their valuables.
As an aside, to those who do feel that this exemplifies MS's influence over governmental agencies...
-- Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
Did you even READ the article? A shipping clerk changed the addressing label on the package, sending it to New York instead of Redmond. The clerk thought it was an ordinary WebTV and that nobody would miss it.
classic anti-microsoft conspiracy slashdot trash. I'm sure I'll get moderated down for this, but who really needs positive karma in a microcosm full of minds that run the gamut from "closed" to "empty"? one time I ordered a whole bunch of computer parts online which UPS kindly misdelivered to some building on 29th st in nyc. as soon as their tracking system notified me of the snafu, I notified UPS - they told me that they could send someone over the next day to try and pick it up, and since that wasn't good enough for Mr. I-Need-It-Now-Bossman, I called my helpful NYPD who said they'd be more than happy to escort me over to pick up my stuff. the NYPD want to help you if youre a NYC resident (unless you're hatian, in which case I guess they just want to anally molest you). let's not get our panties in knots because they helped microsoft.
I know that if you receive unrequested merchandice in your mail, you are entitled to keep it for free. This law was enacted to prevent companies from sending products to people who hadn't requested them, along with a bill requesting payment. If someone does this to you, throw the bill away and keep whatever they sent :)
/. who could commend on the legal issues involved in this kind of thing?
:)
I'm curious as to how this kind of "clerical error" would be dealt with in that kind of context. Do we have any lawyers here on
Even more interesting, as the author noted, was how Micros~1 managed to get the NYPD to knock on this guy's door to retreive the package even 'though no crime was committed. Do they really have that much clout? God help us all if so
Anthony
"I think any time you expose vulnerabilities it's a good thing." -Attorney General Janet Reno
"Hello, sir, this is the NYPD. We have been informed by Microsoft that you have machines here that have been bought for the express purpose of running a Microsoft operating system but you are instead running Linux on them. We would like to come in and confiscate those machines."
-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
Microsoft completed merger talks with industry giant United States of America. Reports are somewhat sketchy at the moment, but it looks like Microsoft will be purchasing a majority share in the USoA. Supporters point to the recent Microsoft controlled actions of the NYPD as further evidence of the MegaCorps takeover. USoA stock skyrocketed on the rumors as investors speculate that for the first time in fifty years USoA may actually turn a profit. Microsoft stock also rose several points as the acquisition of nuclear weapons makes them a formidable world economic player.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Maybe it was really, really big.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Yeah, hows the ol' senate campaign going? Really? Sure, sure, glad we could help out. Look, there's been a little mix up here, and, haha, was wondering if you could do us a little favor this time? Sure, look, I need to get our shipping mgr. in touch with your police chief, What's that Rudi? No, no, no, just a small operation, nothing big, just a single user, uh voter, yeah; What? Oh, yeah, they are a dime a dozen, hehheh. Sure, just talk with my shipping dept and there'll be more where that came from, lots more, Ok?
Boojum
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
It's good to know that NYPD is expanding their list of services available to the public. I suppose they had to find something to fill the day now that they can't shove plungers in peoples butts anymore.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
"This program has just performed an illegal operation. Your local police force will arrive shortly to take it into custody."
not to use MS Access to maintain their address databases...
Think about what you just said.
What if the person says 'Sorry, I don't believe you are from Microsft, and I think you are pulling some kind of scam, now please get off my doorstep.'
The MS employee has no legal ground to stand on. They have to leave, and the person would then be knowingly holding a million dollar prototype.
Also, as someone pointed out, you don't KNOW that the person wasn't involved in the mishap. Some scams *are* that elaborate. The simple answer: send the boys in blue to ask nicely.
People, if *YOU* lost a million dollar box of diamonds because the armored car fucked up, *YOU* would be able to easily get the police to help you ask for them back, and nobody would say it's your fault...
As for the 'tactic' being wrong, what is wrong?
The man wasn't assaulted, handcuffed, or hurt. His door wasn't kicked down, and nobody pointed a gun at him. They simply had cops there, and explained the situation. This is *NOT* a violation of anyone's rights. Nobody forced him to do anything!
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/biztech/ articles/18tv.html
requires free_registration.pl
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Am I the only one that
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finds it hilarious that
someone went through all
this trouble for WebTV?
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Actually, this is not unreasonable. Prototypes are usually very expensive, due to the large amount of research and development money that is put into them. The low cost that the consumer pays is largely due to the mass production of many units. The cost goes up significantly when only building one or two units.
Let's make a really small silly example to demonstrate. Intel makes microchips. It costs approxamately $1 billion to build a chip fabrication plant. Let's say that Intel makes one chip at that plant. That chip's value will be about $1 billion. Now let's say they make thousands of chips at that plant. Well, the price comes down considerably. In other words, the sunk cost for the prototype is the same as that for the mass production variety. It's just that the cost can be distributed across the mass production systems, and not the prototype.
Don't worry. When this $1 million WebTV hits the stores, it will cost considerably less.
This is a much MUCH better version of the story. And is much closer to the truth.
g .webtv/index.html
http://cnn.com/1999/TECH/computing/12/20/missin
You're all up in arms about this!?
Microsoft I suppose? Everything that has to do about Microsoft is evil agian huh? So this is the intelligence of your everyday average Slashdot poster?
I suppose that if the company in this story is Redhat, all of you would be saying how helpful and efficient the NYPD is...
*sigh* Moderating this down would only amplify the hypocracy...