Now what they COULD do , and what is far scarier, is they could ban general purpose computers, requiring all computer manufacturers to only make devices that run signed code only, and they could then include large quantities of spy ware into them, which phone home every 10 seconds , prohibiting you from even shutting them off.
I don't think this would hold up under scrutiny. First Amendment applies here.
..which makes me wonder why all forms of encryption are not legal. Don't we have a constitutional right to encryption? Could it be argued that encryption falls under free speech?
Do you at least concede that there are good actors and bad actors? A range of abilities?
You're right, film is slightly different than music in that the end product is a result or people's work with a disparate set of specialties. This makes it more like a video game production. Bad voice acting can mar a video game just as easily as bad programming, art, or interface design.
I never intended to denigrate programming. I have no doubt that it's difficult and time consuming to learn.
To assume you could be a "damn good" voice actor after 2 years of study is presumptuous. Do you really think you could do a wide range - anything that was asked of you - characters well after 2 years of study? I doubt it.
I'm a tenured musician in a major opera orchestra. How long do you think it would take, starting from scratch, to match my ability? It took me 10 years after I started playing to get good enough to win an audition. If I decided tomorrow to become a programmer, I think it'd take a similar amount of time to master that. It's unfair to dump on acting by arguing that it's easier to master. What would we know about it?
Forgetting for a moment the fact that the Shrek series isn't made by Pixar, the real Pixar will often use voices from unexpected sources.
Yeah, I apologize to all DreamWorks people. I assumed wrongly.
Edna Mode, the pint-sized super-fashionista from the Incredibles? That's, erm... the director, Brad Bird. Who isn't even a lady, let alone a voice actress. Supposedly a temporary voice which they grew to love too much...
I didn't know this. She was one of the better characters, too.
Linguini, the utterly useless human chef from Ratatouille? A certain Lou Romano, who is apparently normally found doing production design type stuff.
I wondered why this character was so lame. I think this performance was weak.
Voice acting is terribly important, but I think it works best if it uses the right voices rather than necessarily expensive voices.
I agree. I simply want to get across that just because the voiceover actors don't have to work the kind of hours that production, tech, and art department people do does not mean that their contribution is worth less.
In this entire discussion, I've seen a bunch of rants by techs about how unreasonable this actor is, instead of wondering why they don't receive residuals themselves.
I'd never say that programmers don't have to continually work on their skills, or that they didn't work hard to get to the level they're at.
Personally, I'd like to see everyone that worked on the game get some amount of residuals. Programmers, artists, and engineers definitely deserve it. The only difference is the actors have a union that can negotiate that for them. Maybe it's time for some sort of tech union?
Simple, this is not television, film, or radio. You, as actors, are not what is driving this vehicle. People play these games because they want to play GTA4. If the character was mute and you had to read text (as is the case with a number of other games) the game would feel different but I think it would have sold just as well.
This game is centered around this character's experience. If you think the game would have been just as good with no voiceovers, you're crazy.
Now to this guy's credit as near as I can tell he's not saying "I was robbed and deceived", he's just saying "gee, I was the main actor in a game which has made $500M, it would be nice if I had been paid more." With all due respect, you didn't get paid more because you're a nobody. I'm not trying to be mean - but you're not George Clooney, you're someone who did soap operas to this point. You did an excellent job, and you were helped by the "Pixar Effect" of using a high quality but unknown actor to avoid distractions. But you were paid the amount you were because you're an unknown. Heck, you got paid a lot more than the average person does in a year, and I doubt this was the only gig you had. If they ever make a sequel to this game and reuse your character (unlikely, since like the Final Fantasy franchise they change characters and settings entirely from game to game) then renegotiate for more money. But in the meantime, just enjoy the fame and likelihood of getting future work. You got this part right on.
I'd rather hire amateur VA's off the street then some hollywood fucktard.
Even if that Hollywood fucktard increased sales tenfold? If you had a contract with your employer that included residuals, you'd sure as hell want that fucktard on your team.
How come unions aren't ubiquitous then?
Because organizing takes effort.
Why is it that I don't have to join a Sysadmin union to be able to find a job with good benefits, etc?
Because there is a huge demand for sysadmin work, and not enough good, qualified people to fill the spots.
Hmm.. could it have anything to do with the fact that my job requires skilled labor You think acting isn't skilled labor? Do you even have a concept of the difference between an Oscar-winning actor and a novice? or a completely untrained actor?
Here's a possible revelation: good people can demand good money. Go ahead and replace me with someone asking half my salary. They won't be up to snuff. They'll suck.
This can be said of every profession that takes time to learn, including acting, sysadmining, plumbing, music, sports...
Market forces, basic supply and demand in a skilled profession protect my pay and benefits.
That is right. In your profession, there is a large demand for workers, and a short supply. You may be fortunate to have a boss that recognizes your level of skill. Care to guess how many sysadmins have been laid off and replaced with a cheaper worker?
I wonder if the voice actor thinks that Rockstar wouldn't be able to find someone to do basically the same quality of voice acting for $99,000, or $98,000. Somehow, I think they could..
Did you play GTAIV? This guy did a fucking spot-on job in the role of Niko Bellic.
Countless video games have been marred by subpar voice acting. I've always wondered how programmers and artists feel when they experience a finished product and they realize all their hard work has been ruined by cheap, crappy acting. Assassin's Creed comes to mind immediately.
Like it or not, acting and music will be playing an increasingly larger role in video game development. I'm not saying the programmers and artists deserve to be paid less, but they will have to compete for their slice of the pie. The actors and musicians are represented by strong unions who fight for their members. Are the programmers?
You missed the point of his argument. He isn't blaming Rockstar. He wants the Screen Actors Guild to fight for contract language similar to what TV and film actors already have.
He's disappointed in his union's representation, not in the video game industry.
And to all the techs reading, if you think actors are overpaid for a perceived small amount of work, why don't you try to do that instead of your current employment? IANAA, but I sure as hell don't think I could become a good one without an insane amount of study, practice, and performance.
Last time I checked, my copy of Shrek 2 had a picture of a two green ogres a donkey and a cat on it, not Mike Myers and Eddie Murphy, Cameron Diaz and Antonio Banderas
Yes, it's funny, but would you suggest that Shrek would have been even close to the success it was had Pixar used cheap voice acting instead of these stars?
Do the production crew, programmers, and creative team deserve this too? Absolutely! Do they get it? No, because they were not able to negotiate this and accepted what was given to them.
This is what a union does for its members. It fights for a bigger slice of the pie. If you're a programmer and you don't like seeing your idiot suit-wearing bosses making more than you, negotiate collectively through a union.
Exactly, I bet per hour this guy made a ton more than any of the programmers on the team. If this game took three years to make they each could have pulled in 200k I'm sure but how many hours is that? 40 a week? 60 a week? 80 a week at crunch time?
When you pay an artist, you're paying for the enormous amount of hours it takes outside of the recording or performance.
This actor didn't just show up and read a bunch of lines. He worked for years on this trade. Also, if you estimate that programmers made $200K over the course of the game's development, that's still twice what the star of the game made.
The voice acting is a large and growing part of video games. While nobody would buy a game based on the voice acting alone, it does play a role. The GTA franchise, starting with Vice City, showed to me that quality voiceovers made a welcome improvement to the experience.
You don't care about the actors in the movies you watch? What about the musicians in the bands you listen to? The chefs in your restaurants? The athletes in the sports you watch?
Are you even aware that there's a difference between the Berlin Philharmonic and your local community orchestra? Or Jack Nicholson and the troupe at the nearby theater? Would you rather watch the scrubs at the park play pickup or go see LeBron?
I choose which video games I play based mostly on who made it. I buy games from developers I know are good, based on my previous experience.
And then there were laws created for the poor...
For example unions... Unions are not a law. The right to peacefully assemble is granted in the Bill of Rights.
Also, unions exist to represent labor, not "the poor".
native american history is incomparable to ancient middle east history when concerning rights of ownership to a piece of land.
Why? I can't see this as anything other than a blatantly racist statement.
regardless of who your argument was directed at, it justifies any and all occupation
This is accurate, though.
Slashdot Mirror
Looks like Englishv6.
I don't think this would hold up under scrutiny. First Amendment applies here.
Do I tell it to them before or after they're scraping your brains off of the pavement?
Hush, Ari Fleischer, it'll all be OK in the morning.
Poorly written, but insightful - everyone should memorize this.
TV watchers are the product. Advertisers are the buyers of the product. Don't get it backwards.
I ran out of mod points.
And he's right, fools modded the OP up.
For slashdot readers, building computers is simple.
For most people, it seems incredibly difficult.
Do you at least concede that there are good actors and bad actors? A range of abilities?
You're right, film is slightly different than music in that the end product is a result or people's work with a disparate set of specialties. This makes it more like a video game production. Bad voice acting can mar a video game just as easily as bad programming, art, or interface design.
I never intended to denigrate programming. I have no doubt that it's difficult and time consuming to learn.
To assume you could be a "damn good" voice actor after 2 years of study is presumptuous. Do you really think you could do a wide range - anything that was asked of you - characters well after 2 years of study? I doubt it.
I'm a tenured musician in a major opera orchestra. How long do you think it would take, starting from scratch, to match my ability? It took me 10 years after I started playing to get good enough to win an audition. If I decided tomorrow to become a programmer, I think it'd take a similar amount of time to master that. It's unfair to dump on acting by arguing that it's easier to master. What would we know about it?
Yeah, I apologize to all DreamWorks people. I assumed wrongly.
Edna Mode, the pint-sized super-fashionista from the Incredibles? That's, erm... the director, Brad Bird. Who isn't even a lady, let alone a voice actress. Supposedly a temporary voice which they grew to love too much...
I didn't know this. She was one of the better characters, too.
Linguini, the utterly useless human chef from Ratatouille? A certain Lou Romano, who is apparently normally found doing production design type stuff.
I wondered why this character was so lame. I think this performance was weak.
Voice acting is terribly important, but I think it works best if it uses the right voices rather than necessarily expensive voices.
I agree. I simply want to get across that just because the voiceover actors don't have to work the kind of hours that production, tech, and art department people do does not mean that their contribution is worth less.
In this entire discussion, I've seen a bunch of rants by techs about how unreasonable this actor is, instead of wondering why they don't receive residuals themselves.
Sorry about that.
I'd never say that programmers don't have to continually work on their skills, or that they didn't work hard to get to the level they're at.
Personally, I'd like to see everyone that worked on the game get some amount of residuals. Programmers, artists, and engineers definitely deserve it. The only difference is the actors have a union that can negotiate that for them. Maybe it's time for some sort of tech union?
This game is centered around this character's experience. If you think the game would have been just as good with no voiceovers, you're crazy.
Now to this guy's credit as near as I can tell he's not saying "I was robbed and deceived", he's just saying "gee, I was the main actor in a game which has made $500M, it would be nice if I had been paid more." With all due respect, you didn't get paid more because you're a nobody. I'm not trying to be mean - but you're not George Clooney, you're someone who did soap operas to this point. You did an excellent job, and you were helped by the "Pixar Effect" of using a high quality but unknown actor to avoid distractions. But you were paid the amount you were because you're an unknown. Heck, you got paid a lot more than the average person does in a year, and I doubt this was the only gig you had. If they ever make a sequel to this game and reuse your character (unlikely, since like the Final Fantasy franchise they change characters and settings entirely from game to game) then renegotiate for more money. But in the meantime, just enjoy the fame and likelihood of getting future work.
You got this part right on.
Even if that Hollywood fucktard increased sales tenfold? If you had a contract with your employer that included residuals, you'd sure as hell want that fucktard on your team.
Because organizing takes effort.
Why is it that I don't have to join a Sysadmin union to be able to find a job with good benefits, etc?
Because there is a huge demand for sysadmin work, and not enough good, qualified people to fill the spots.
Hmm.. could it have anything to do with the fact that my job requires skilled labor
You think acting isn't skilled labor? Do you even have a concept of the difference between an Oscar-winning actor and a novice? or a completely untrained actor?
Here's a possible revelation: good people can demand good money. Go ahead and replace me with someone asking half my salary. They won't be up to snuff. They'll suck.
This can be said of every profession that takes time to learn, including acting, sysadmining, plumbing, music, sports...
Market forces, basic supply and demand in a skilled profession protect my pay and benefits.
That is right. In your profession, there is a large demand for workers, and a short supply. You may be fortunate to have a boss that recognizes your level of skill. Care to guess how many sysadmins have been laid off and replaced with a cheaper worker?
Did you play GTAIV? This guy did a fucking spot-on job in the role of Niko Bellic.
Countless video games have been marred by subpar voice acting. I've always wondered how programmers and artists feel when they experience a finished product and they realize all their hard work has been ruined by cheap, crappy acting. Assassin's Creed comes to mind immediately.
Like it or not, acting and music will be playing an increasingly larger role in video game development. I'm not saying the programmers and artists deserve to be paid less, but they will have to compete for their slice of the pie. The actors and musicians are represented by strong unions who fight for their members. Are the programmers?
You missed the point of his argument. He isn't blaming Rockstar. He wants the Screen Actors Guild to fight for contract language similar to what TV and film actors already have.
He's disappointed in his union's representation, not in the video game industry.
And to all the techs reading, if you think actors are overpaid for a perceived small amount of work, why don't you try to do that instead of your current employment? IANAA, but I sure as hell don't think I could become a good one without an insane amount of study, practice, and performance.
Yes, it's funny, but would you suggest that Shrek would have been even close to the success it was had Pixar used cheap voice acting instead of these stars?
This is what a union does for its members. It fights for a bigger slice of the pie. If you're a programmer and you don't like seeing your idiot suit-wearing bosses making more than you, negotiate collectively through a union.
When you pay an artist, you're paying for the enormous amount of hours it takes outside of the recording or performance.
This actor didn't just show up and read a bunch of lines. He worked for years on this trade. Also, if you estimate that programmers made $200K over the course of the game's development, that's still twice what the star of the game made.
The voice acting is a large and growing part of video games. While nobody would buy a game based on the voice acting alone, it does play a role. The GTA franchise, starting with Vice City, showed to me that quality voiceovers made a welcome improvement to the experience.
You don't care about the actors in the movies you watch? What about the musicians in the bands you listen to? The chefs in your restaurants? The athletes in the sports you watch?
Are you even aware that there's a difference between the Berlin Philharmonic and your local community orchestra? Or Jack Nicholson and the troupe at the nearby theater? Would you rather watch the scrubs at the park play pickup or go see LeBron?
I choose which video games I play based mostly on who made it. I buy games from developers I know are good, based on my previous experience.
Frank Shoemaker would call it noise, though.
wtf?
Also, unions exist to represent labor, not "the poor".
Why? I can't see this as anything other than a blatantly racist statement. regardless of who your argument was directed at, it justifies any and all occupation
This is accurate, though.