And I'm sick of people who take at face value what the telcos and cable companies tell them about the real costs of providing this service. Don't forget the track record of the people you're dealing with.
Until someone publishes an independent study about the nuts and bolts economics of the broadband ISP, I'll take Occam's razor. When someone sells you $2.50 a month call-waiting or a $3 per month unlisted number, you draw the obvious conclusion when they start whining about the "onerous costs" of meeting their contractual obligations to you.
There's a great synergy between our big, overconsolidated and overextended broadband ISPs and the media companies. They each want P2P to stop. The media guys want it to preserve their trust- I mean, rights, and the ISPs want it so they can overextend even further.
Of course, in theory this isn't a problem, since if a big ISP raises their rates or imposes onerous restrictions, their customers will all flee to their competitors.
But what if there are no competitors?
You see, both the media companies (who also own cable, BTW), and the telecommunications industry basically own the U.S. government.
That's right - the same government that has been quietly dismantling competition in the ISP field with great alacrity, both for the cable and telco infrastructures. The effect? To leave a few major players (the bells, and the cable companies) owning broadband. The goal?
Control.
They can't stop P2P, so they're going to stop the entire internet.
They'll use a tried and true method: making it expensive.
The only possible out is if the coalition collapses, and rather than play along, the telcos decide to make a grab for the fleeing cable customers rather than fall in line and restrict their own service.
Of course, they may restrict it eventually anyway.
Ordinarily I would say that technology will eventually find a way. Now that the demand for bandwidth exists on the scale it does, people will come along to create a supply. If the traditional infrastructures have been subverted, new ones will be created. Grouping wireless, for instance. But the FCC, which is part of the same prison-bitch federal government already being discussed, is in an excellent position to shut such efforts down.
Ugly. Very ugly. The only light at the end of this tunnel will be the demand for cheaper bandwidth created by "legitimate" content providers. This could eventually force the ISP trusts to compete again, but there's no guarantees, and it could take a long time.
I realize that you're being funny, but it occurs to me reading this that things are so much worse than your joke implies that that in itself is funny, in a nihilistic sort of way.
The Good News: Spam cuts down as companies realize they can't afford the bandwidth costs compared to the income.
Spam isn't cut down at all; bandwidth-wise it's not nearly as significant as P2P, delivery can be modulated to stay inside a speed/size restriction, and the dirty little secret is that spam is often quite profitable (why else is everyone doing it) - spammers can easily afford the $500-$1000 a month for a "business class" internet connection - or several.
Not to mention that many if not most steal their servers, and their bandwidth, anyway, which brings me to point 2:
The Bad News: There's still enough out there that you're charged an extra $5 just to download your mail. Oh, and that time you friend who uses Outlook got that virus? Yup - another $5.
I would actually call this worse news. Because yes, with metered connectivity spam can really start to cost you big, even as the government will continue to refuse to regulate it. And because that Outlook virus, or the distributed denial of service client you just got hacked to run, or any number of other abuses far beyond your control, will land you with a bill far, far larger than $5. Try $5,000. Don't laugh. It's already happened.
Not to mention that with bandwidth becoming more expensive, DDoS will only become more necessary (to kiddies), and hence more popular. Despite this, Microsoft will continue to do nothing of substance about the security of their products (it's impossible, since it's not economical to really do things right).
The Good News: With bandwidth metering, idiot people who only only posts trolls stop since their hobby of annoying people for fun is now costing them.
Unfortunately not. It's ironic that the most annoying things on the internet generally require the least amount of bandwidth.
The Good News: Sites with way too many graphics, Flash animations, bangs and whistles become less popular, and become nice, clean, quick interfaces. True HTML 4.0 compliance becomes key since you can't just program client side "if browser==this display this".
In a word... no.
The Good News: The RIAA and MPAA shut the fuck up about how people are stealing music and videos. The whole CD protection bandwagon is killed off since there's no more fear that people will download music over the Internet, since that would cost as much as the CD anyway.
Not a chance. CD copy protection is just getting started, with or without P2P.
My friend's experience with his Ipaq was much worse than yours; perhaps that's due to differences between models or simply to your obviously sophisticated approach to power management. To be specific, my experience with the Palm Vx under normal use is that it can go as long as 8 weeks. It's tough for me to extrapolate the cumulative number of hours from that, but...
Most importantly - I'll go out on a limb and speculate a bit here - I think the $60 Palm V will be a better PDA for 80-90% of PDA users than the $600 Ipaq.
The other thing is that, if the ipaq is replacing your discman/walkman, which many people also carry around with them, then battery life comparisons aren't really relevant. And this is definitely a great PDA feature. The only reason I wouldn't use one is because I'd be afraid to kill the PDA's battery and then not get reminded of something - the biggest reason I have the PDA in the first place.:)
I've owned a Palm V and a Plam Vx; both have been rather durable and pretty reliable, although I have noticed that, as they get older, you have to continually recalibrate the "digitizer" (the touch sensors in the screen are calibrated by tapping on top of a target placed at two corners and then the center of the screen), otherwise there seems to be some "drift." Still, this is manageable.
I would not be at all surprised to see growing pains of this kind as the company attempts to cut costs in order to move into new markets and increase profitability.
I hope that the negative attention they're getting will force them to improve; while far from perfect, I like their work, and hope they continue to stick around.
For an ordinary person looking for a PDA but not interested in shelling out $3-600 for an all singing all dancing 8 hour battery life Windows CE wonder, I'd recommend going on half.com or ebay and snapping up a Palm V or Vx. These can be had in perfect condition for about $60 and $100, respectively. I guess they don't make 'em like the used to - but the older models are still excellent PDAs - palm's virtue (and curse) has always been keeping things simple, so little has changed over the years.
That does it. I'm going to go tell all my family and friends that I caught you contradicting yourself because all you did was answer me with numbers instead of giving me another straight answer. Clearly your rudeness-
But you have failed again to repond to this question with a straight and direct answer.1
Your next response should either be a straight and direct answer, or, if I am mistaken, a quote from a past post that you made which is a straight and direct answer to this question.3
It doens't get much more straight and direct than numbers, doctor!
And even without 3G, we're already paying for the medium - it's just cheaper. It's a no-brainer that systematic unsolicited communications where the receiver pays for delivery should be illegal.
I think the U.S. ultimately likes it because legislators are being told these kinds of communications are good for the economy because they stimulate business by creating new transactions. But of course, you could say the same for legalizing fraud. Both approaches have long term conseunces which are bad in the end.
Hmph. That's funny. You're not the Natural Keyboard guy. Go ahead and hit the "Parent" link a few times if you want to read what I was referring to. All this will be much less confusing if you stay in your own thread. Let's see... backtracking...
Ah yes. You're the guy who said
After abusing their body for 10+ years using poorly designed keyboards and improper positioning, etc., people that complain that the new ergonomic keyboard they purchased were a waste of money don't impress me with their wisdom. This is similar to abusing your body for 10+ years with junk food, and then complaining that it takes so long to lose weight and get into shape.
I can see that you actually didn't directly suggest keyboards will help cure RSI - you're just jumping in for the guy who did. Still; how do you know which keyboards are good for you and which aren't? Your answer: seems to be "ask the keyboard company." They feed you a line about the way the keys are positioned or the angle of the split, and you decide that it "makes sense to [you.]"
Yes, I remember now. Your point was:
So why do I believe that a "new-fangled" keyboard may be worth it? Two main reasons: my personal experience, and the fact that they just make more sense than an old keyboard.
So, on your side you have your own personal experience, plus the fact that it "just [makes] more sense." On my side, I have personal experience, and obviously what we believe makes sense to us, no matter what method we came by our beliefs, and... oh yes. A doctor.
Not satisfied yet, you even manage to point out the fact that there are no well done studies showing the benefits of the technology you are shilling for. It's just you and the keyboard company, asking us to take it on faith. And it makes sense to you, so it must be right, right?
Someone better notify the FDA and the AMA - this could revolutionize medical research. If it makes sense to Undecidable, I'm sure that we need not worry that there is no experimental verification, or if trained M.D.'s disagree. After all - he's very sure! And if anyone gets hurt by putting off a doctor's visit and using his or another miracle keyboard instead, he'll support them in their early retirment, too!
You will, won't you? What - you don't have malpractice insurance?
I'm sure you'll coyly pretend all this is going over your head, so I'll repeat myself even more plainly: in medicine, something is considered worthless until proven otherwise according to the standards of the medical community. A potential improvement, such as a better keyboard, is nothing more than potential - worthless (except in closely controlled clinical trials) until proven otherwise. Without these minor impediments to your argument, I doubt either of us would be alive, since at some point or another someone's "beliefs" probably would have killed either ourselves our one of our ancestors.
You know, even if you're right, and instead of seeing a doctor, we should all go get the ergonomic keyboard of our choice when we feel "small amounts of pain" - just like you did - how do you know which keyboards are actually ergonomic and which are just pretending to be?
Oh, right. Ask Dr. Undecidable! He's done some reading. He'll tell you what pains are small and what are not. He'll even tell you which keyboards are best. You don't even need to come in for a visit - he can do it all, right over the internet, with his powerful intuition! How small is a small amount of pain, doctor? When does small become large? At what point do you give up on the keyboards and decide you need to get help? Maybe if we're giving up too fast, we're just "complaining that it takes so long to lose weight and get into shape."
Oh, right. We should only go to the doctor when it's "serious."
ATTENTION EVERYONE: Dr. Undecidable HAS JUST DECIDED THAT YOU ONLY NEED TO GO SEE A SPECIALIST WHEN YOU HAVE A "SERIOUS RSI."
Where was I? Ah yes. I'm afraid I see a pattern here, Dr. Undecidable. You have a series of things you seem to do when attempting to argue. They fit into a pretty simple pattern, actually.
Pretend you didn't just read (or say) something.
Pretend you just read (or said) something you didn't.
Pretend you have a sense of humor.
For the sake of brevity, I'm going to list your responses and then provide the appropriate numeric code. Since it's apparent that your rapacious intellect has already devoured and revolutionized RSI-related medical care, I'm sure keeping up with this minor abstraction will be no problem for you. When you next respond, feel free to simply use the numbers I've laid out rather than writing out new fallacies in full - it may save you some time.
Let's begin.
You're apologizing for something that I never said or expressed.1
If you feel that I am misinterpreting your statements, then by all means, please point out how. I am not interested in having an argument just for the sake of arguing.1
You didn't make it clear if you were referring to the previous trials with my doctors or yours.1
No where did you state that you changed anything about the way you type.1
You should share with us more about what changes you (or your doctor) thought were useful.1
Which is it? Do your doctors feel that ergonomic keyboards are "worthless"? Or do they feel that they are a "part of the puzzle"?2
The advice that you espouse in your original post was to seek professional help and basically do whatever they say.2
And I don't believe that ergonomic keyboards are a worthless piece to the long-term solution puzzle.3
I'm sorry you feel my comments have hit a bit too close to home for comfort - in my experience it's a sign you're not very bright if a logical, reasoned response to your points strikes you as nasty. The truth often is.
Once again you misinterpret me so as to have something you can mount a sensible argument against. Speaking of backing off, my experience was that the keyboard manufacturer was not nearly as circumspect about the chance of improvement with their product as you now appear to be. Hence my warning - don't deal with the keyboard manufacturers. Deal with a doctor.
Of course, when I say keyboard manufacturers, I'm talking about companies like Datahand (as I mentioned in my original post), and you are talking about the Microsoft Natural keyboard - perhaps the difference is too subtle for you. But pressing on...
So you've read a bit on the issue outside the product brochures, eh? You didn't cite any sources, but let's speak hypothetically for a moment; so, keyboards don't help people who've developed a problem... they're a preventative measure, according to "your reading." Funny; that's not what one might take away from your original post. But do you want to tell the crowd how people know if it's too late for a keyboard to help them? Or perhaps you'd rather leave that too... a qualified physician?
I also appreciate your feigned ignorance about my point - very amusing. Here, let me spell it out for you, since it's no fair if you're too baffled to follow along, right?
Try to read slowly so as not to become confused.
You said:
You must realize you silly you sound:
10 You have behavour X 20 You become unhealthy. 30 You give doctor money to cure symptom of behavour X. 40 Your doctor tells you to continue behavour X. 50 goto 10
And I said:
I see you made up an anecdote meant to illustrate that the doctor is only treating the symptoms... Very amsuing, Dr. Undecidable. I can see why, too. If you just came out and said "these cheating RSI specialists never cure the disease, all they do is treat the symptoms," it would be much more obvious what a nut you're turning out to be. It doesn't bother me much; my 3-4 appointments were several years ago, and I bet, given your beliefs, you'll be seeing a specialist before I'll be back.
Focus. Concentrate. If it still seems confusing, maybe you should take a walk and them come back to the computer.
Where was I? Ah yes. You're accusing me of "backing off from my original statement." Right. This may save you some trouble. No matter how much you hammer away at this, it won't change the fact that all I've done is relay the advice of my (very good) physician.
What was your complaint about that again? Oh yes. That doctors are greedy liars who want you to stay sick so they can keep treating you. Or, perhaps it was that doctors don't know what they're doing and can't help you.
Actually, I don't blindly believe it. In addition to having a highly qualified and well-respected specialist tell me, it reflects my own experience and the experience of others that I know. That would, actually, be more or less the opposite of "blind." Unless by "blind" you mean I didn't ask your opinion.
I'm adamant about these things because people get hurt, even get their lives ruined, by avoiding the doctor and putting their faith in gadgets and the dreams of marketing executives.
I see you made up an anecdote meant to illustrate that the doctor is only treating the symptoms... Very amsuing, Dr. Undecidable. I can see why, too. If you just came out and said "these cheating RSI specialists never cure the disease, all they do is treat the symptoms," it would be much more obvious what a nut you're turning out to be. It doesn't bother me much; my 3-4 appointments were several years ago, and I bet, given your beliefs, you'll be seeing a specialist before I'll be back.
Going around telling people not to trust doctors, to try to diagnose and treat themselves, has consequences I hope you just haven't thought about yet.
If you were paying attention instead of shilling for the keyboard company of the week, you would have noticed that the substance of my experience is that I changed quite a bit: work habits, exercise routine, chair and desk setup, etc. You could say this is what made the difference, but I think it more accurrate to simply say "being under the care of a competent professional."
In other words, someone like you, except with years of ivy league medical school, decades of clinical experience, and a little common sense.
The really ironic thing about this is that I don't think you'd be denying the obvious quite so vehemently if you weren't really worried about all this, somewhere in the back of your mind...
Good luck yourself. Don't say I didn't try to warn you.
It sounds like you had a terrible experience. Curious; are you talking about fusion surgery? In any case, chiropracters have their reputation for a reason. I totally agree that we need to be "informed consumers" with the medical profession - read everything you can, ask questions, and by all means seek 2nd and 3rd opinions about major issues, let alone if you have any doubt about what you're hearing. Finally, you absolutely have to shop around. Even in America, if you just pick a name out of the phone book you'll get terrible care. You have to ask people; read journals, make calls... Find out who people think is the best in the area and then ask them who the best is. The good thing is that, with insurance, the top 2% costs the same as the other 98% (within reason).
All that said, if it's you versus the M.D., I'll take the M.D. every time.
And are we even talking about that? Or are we really talking about a keyboard company versus the M.D.?
You must realize how ridiculous that sounds.
I suppose the keyboard maker took something like the businessman's equivalent of the hippocratic oath, except instead of "do no harm" it goes "sell as many as possible." There is no substitute for a qualified physician, and since most of us have insurance, there is no reason not to see one.
It is critically important that people understand that if they are having pain or numbness, they need to go get quality medical care right away. You're a fool to diagnose and treat yourself with something as important as this; you'll be prey to every opportunist with a gadget and a good story. And you desperately want to believe it, because you don't want the reality of a visit to a specialist. You want to replace your keyboard and have the problem go away.
The problem is that even if your symptoms are moderated by a keyboard or an office chair, you still have a problem. You're crazy not to have yourself under the care of a professional. Look at what you're fucking with! It's not worth it to screw around with something like this - it will end your professional life!
If your doctor tells you to go out and get keyboard X, Y, or Z, fine. But don't let denial and fear drive you to do something totally contrary to common sense. Certainly, don't try to pass off the justification that "all doctors are crooked" as a reason to avoid seeing a good specialist and doing what they tell you. Maybe you already realize how silly that sounds.
Have you gotten professional help? Tell me you at least got some medical advice.
As I said, I don't doubt the modern keyboard could be considerably improved. But you lost me when you started contradicting the M.D.
Are you a doctor? Any medical training at all? Go ahead, surprise me.
My understanding is that Cortisone can alleviate an inflamation feedback process and, as in my case, it's useful when used in concert with things like exercise, workplace ergonomics, and better habits.
RSI is a very scary thing, and the will to believe is equally powerful.
It's a big mistake for you to put your trust in a keyboard company rather than a doctor you trust.
If your doctor tells you to get a datahand, knock yourself out. Otherwise, caveat emptor.
I didn't infer anything. This is coming to you straight from the mouth of an M.D.
And for the last time, I'm not saying split keyboards are worthless, just that "gimmicks" like the Datahand didn't accomplish anything, and a good doctor was effective almost immediately.
You're not a counter-example to anything. All I'm saying is this:
Never use an ergonomic keyboard as a substitute for a doctor.
The false sense of security a gadget and a little marketing material can provide, with the added bonus of the placebo effect, injures a lot of people. I mean A LOT of people.
Now, please, pay attention.
If you suspect you're developing an RSI, don't wait, GET A DOCTOR. DON'T DO ANYTHING TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT, YOUR CONDITION THAT SHE DOESN'T TELL YOU TO DO.
As I've also pointed out, often times the substance of what they tell you is simple workplace ergonomics. But people get injured trying to treat themselves, and in a 1st world country there's no reason for that.
I looked into this, but what I heard about it was sobering. For things like journalism and medical dictation, dragon and similar systems show a lot of promise. But for a "keyboard-bound task" like programming, I'm told the human voice proves far less durable than the hands - you'll talk yourself hoarse very quickly; you can't sustain an appropriate level of output that way... Of course, I haven't tried, although my experiences teaching (spending hours lecturing) make me inclined to believe it...
I'd love to hear from others who've tried to use dictation systems in a production coding environment.
Perhaps you mean you want my specialist not to make blanket statements.
Let's recap here. You're not an M.D. He is. Let's ask the crowd. Who do you believe?
I'll restate my position, which is:
Never use an ergonomic keyboard as a substitute for a doctor.
The false sense of security a gadget and a little marketing material can provide, with the added bonus of the placebo effect, injures a lot of people. I mean A LOT of people.
Now, please, pay attention.
GET A DOCTOR. DON'T DO ANYTHING TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT, YOUR CONDITION THAT SHE DOESN'T TELL YOU TO DO.
Not news to me. I'm speaking about what might be used in general (the word is "default") to prevent injuries, which are an epidemic among "keyboard workers."
The standard QWERTY keyboards in use today are still a mess, and could still be improved. And improving them might even help prevent RSI. But my understanding of it, gleaned from the Doctors I've worked with is that the keyboard itself is a relatively small part of the puzzle, with work habits (regular breaks!), posture, chair and desk, and other aspects of your fitness (most of the exercises I did were back-related) making up the majority.
At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing Dvorak keyboards come into style.
I'm a programmer and an avid FPS gamer. About three years ago I started to feel a tingling sensation on the backs of my hands - as if they were "falling asleep." First this would happen after the odd 12-16 hour session of straight coding, but gradually unusual aches, pains and numbness became more and more common, until it was happening every day.
I knew exactly what was happening to me, but at the time I was trying to start a business and didn't have health insurance. Becoming panicked, I goaded my partners into starting the search for insurnace we could afford - amid the spiraling costs and free-fall benefits currently available, this took 5 months. Toward the end, I was unable to work.
I read every single piece of literature on the internet about RSI, and then I moved on to the library and the medical books. This condition has happened in my family, and I immediately knew how much trouble I was in. Everything said the same thing: "see a specialist now - don't wait!" But I couldn't! And I inevitably ended up looking at the major "RSI keyboards" - i.e. Twiddler and Datahand. I "evaluated" the Datahand (this is a $1,000+ investment, but still less than the consultation fee of a good specialist) for several months.
The principle seemed sound to me - the literature they had appeared convincing and the salesman I spoke to claimed to be an RSI sufferer himself who had been helped "dramatically" by the keyboard. It got a lot of comments sitting on my desk - the thing looks quite sci-fi. However, the learning curve was steep (at least for me) - it took weeks of constant effort in order to get to a third of my current 90wpm. Convinced I might be saving my wrists, I let this massive and unbearable disruption to my work continue unabated, but I found that I still felt pain, and at the end of the day, I still felt numb. In hopeful moments, I thought perhaps it would pass as I gained proficiency with the keyboard.
Eventually I more or less stopped working altogether, using interns and co-workers to type for me. My partners started to get nervous - far from sticking with their friend, I knew they were starting to wonder how they could get rid of this medical disaster in their midst. I started to contemplate what the rest of my life would be like without the ability to type or perform other similarly intricate motions with my hands.
Finally, the insurance came through, and I canvased New York, looking for the best specialst I could find. In an oak-paneled office a few blocks from Lincoln Center, I mingled with young musical prodigies and their handlers, and I was given two cortisone injections, an exercise regimen, and a piece of advice:
"Those keyboards aren't worth the plastic they're molded out of."
I went back on the regular keyboard, and within weeks, I was 100% back to normal.
So, in summary:
THE "ERGONOMIC," "RSI" KEYBOARDS ARE WORTHLESS
IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, SEE THE BEST SPECIALIST YOU CAN FIND. IMMEDIATELY.
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And I'm sick of people who take at face value what the telcos and cable companies tell them about the real costs of providing this service. Don't forget the track record of the people you're dealing with.
Until someone publishes an independent study about the nuts and bolts economics of the broadband ISP, I'll take Occam's razor. When someone sells you $2.50 a month call-waiting or a $3 per month unlisted number, you draw the obvious conclusion when they start whining about the "onerous costs" of meeting their contractual obligations to you.
There's a great synergy between our big, overconsolidated and overextended broadband ISPs and the media companies. They each want P2P to stop. The media guys want it to preserve their trust- I mean, rights, and the ISPs want it so they can overextend even further.
Of course, in theory this isn't a problem, since if a big ISP raises their rates or imposes onerous restrictions, their customers will all flee to their competitors.
But what if there are no competitors?
You see, both the media companies (who also own cable, BTW), and the telecommunications industry basically own the U.S. government.
That's right - the same government that has been quietly dismantling competition in the ISP field with great alacrity, both for the cable and telco infrastructures. The effect? To leave a few major players (the bells, and the cable companies) owning broadband. The goal?
Control.
They can't stop P2P, so they're going to stop the entire internet.
They'll use a tried and true method: making it expensive.
The only possible out is if the coalition collapses, and rather than play along, the telcos decide to make a grab for the fleeing cable customers rather than fall in line and restrict their own service.
Of course, they may restrict it eventually anyway.
Ordinarily I would say that technology will eventually find a way. Now that the demand for bandwidth exists on the scale it does, people will come along to create a supply. If the traditional infrastructures have been subverted, new ones will be created. Grouping wireless, for instance. But the FCC, which is part of the same prison-bitch federal government already being discussed, is in an excellent position to shut such efforts down.
Ugly. Very ugly. The only light at the end of this tunnel will be the demand for cheaper bandwidth created by "legitimate" content providers. This could eventually force the ISP trusts to compete again, but there's no guarantees, and it could take a long time.
In other words, my friends: it's fucked.
I realize that you're being funny, but it occurs to me reading this that things are so much worse than your joke implies that that in itself is funny, in a nihilistic sort of way.
The Good News: Spam cuts down as companies realize they can't afford the bandwidth costs compared to the income.
Spam isn't cut down at all; bandwidth-wise it's not nearly as significant as P2P, delivery can be modulated to stay inside a speed/size restriction, and the dirty little secret is that spam is often quite profitable (why else is everyone doing it) - spammers can easily afford the $500-$1000 a month for a "business class" internet connection - or several.
Not to mention that many if not most steal their servers, and their bandwidth, anyway, which brings me to point 2:
The Bad News: There's still enough out there that you're charged an extra $5 just to download your mail. Oh, and that time you friend who uses Outlook got that virus? Yup - another $5.
I would actually call this worse news. Because yes, with metered connectivity spam can really start to cost you big, even as the government will continue to refuse to regulate it. And because that Outlook virus, or the distributed denial of service client you just got hacked to run, or any number of other abuses far beyond your control, will land you with a bill far, far larger than $5. Try $5,000. Don't laugh. It's already happened.
Not to mention that with bandwidth becoming more expensive, DDoS will only become more necessary (to kiddies), and hence more popular. Despite this, Microsoft will continue to do nothing of substance about the security of their products (it's impossible, since it's not economical to really do things right).
The Good News: With bandwidth metering, idiot people who only only posts trolls stop since their hobby of annoying people for fun is now costing them.
Unfortunately not. It's ironic that the most annoying things on the internet generally require the least amount of bandwidth.
The Good News: Sites with way too many graphics, Flash animations, bangs and whistles become less popular, and become nice, clean, quick interfaces. True HTML 4.0 compliance becomes key since you can't just program client side "if browser==this display this".
In a word... no.
The Good News: The RIAA and MPAA shut the fuck up about how people are stealing music and videos. The whole CD protection bandwagon is killed off since there's no more fear that people will download music over the Internet, since that would cost as much as the CD anyway.
Not a chance. CD copy protection is just getting started, with or without P2P.
Nasty, isn't it?
By should I mean "shouldn't". :)
No question - you should be paying the same thing for a palm as you pay for your device. Fortunately that's not the case. :)
My friend's experience with his Ipaq was much worse than yours; perhaps that's due to differences between models or simply to your obviously sophisticated approach to power management. To be specific, my experience with the Palm Vx under normal use is that it can go as long as 8 weeks. It's tough for me to extrapolate the cumulative number of hours from that, but...
:)
Most importantly - I'll go out on a limb and speculate a bit here - I think the $60 Palm V will be a better PDA for 80-90% of PDA users than the $600 Ipaq.
The other thing is that, if the ipaq is replacing your discman/walkman, which many people also carry around with them, then battery life comparisons aren't really relevant. And this is definitely a great PDA feature. The only reason I wouldn't use one is because I'd be afraid to kill the PDA's battery and then not get reminded of something - the biggest reason I have the PDA in the first place.
-David
I've owned a Palm V and a Plam Vx; both have been rather durable and pretty reliable, although I have noticed that, as they get older, you have to continually recalibrate the "digitizer" (the touch sensors in the screen are calibrated by tapping on top of a target placed at two corners and then the center of the screen), otherwise there seems to be some "drift." Still, this is manageable.
I would not be at all surprised to see growing pains of this kind as the company attempts to cut costs in order to move into new markets and increase profitability.
I hope that the negative attention they're getting will force them to improve; while far from perfect, I like their work, and hope they continue to stick around.
For an ordinary person looking for a PDA but not interested in shelling out $3-600 for an all singing all dancing 8 hour battery life Windows CE wonder, I'd recommend going on half.com or ebay and snapping up a Palm V or Vx. These can be had in perfect condition for about $60 and $100, respectively. I guess they don't make 'em like the used to - but the older models are still excellent PDAs - palm's virtue (and curse) has always been keeping things simple, so little has changed over the years.
-David
Oooh Ooooh Ahhh Ahhh.... 1, 2, and 3!
:)
That does it. I'm going to go tell all my family and friends that I caught you contradicting yourself because all you did was answer me with numbers instead of giving me another straight answer. Clearly your rudeness-
;-)
Oh wait. I thought I was you for a second. nm!
-Dave
But you have failed again to repond to this question with a straight and direct answer. 1
Your next response should either be a straight and direct answer, or, if I am mistaken, a quote from a past post that you made which is a straight and direct answer to this question. 3
It doens't get much more straight and direct than numbers, doctor!
-Dave
I believe you mean: "1"
:)
-Dave
And even without 3G, we're already paying for the medium - it's just cheaper. It's a no-brainer that systematic unsolicited communications where the receiver pays for delivery should be illegal.
I think the U.S. ultimately likes it because legislators are being told these kinds of communications are good for the economy because they stimulate business by creating new transactions. But of course, you could say the same for legalizing fraud. Both approaches have long term conseunces which are bad in the end.
-David
Ah yes. You're the guy who said
After abusing their body for 10+ years using poorly designed keyboards and improper positioning, etc., people that complain that the new ergonomic keyboard they purchased were a waste of money don't impress me with their wisdom. This is similar to abusing your body for 10+ years with junk food, and then complaining that it takes so long to lose weight and get into shape.
I can see that you actually didn't directly suggest keyboards will help cure RSI - you're just jumping in for the guy who did. Still; how do you know which keyboards are good for you and which aren't? Your answer: seems to be "ask the keyboard company." They feed you a line about the way the keys are positioned or the angle of the split, and you decide that it "makes sense to [you.]"
Yes, I remember now. Your point was:
So why do I believe that a "new-fangled" keyboard may be worth it? Two main reasons: my personal experience, and the fact that they just make more sense than an old keyboard.
So, on your side you have your own personal experience, plus the fact that it "just [makes] more sense." On my side, I have personal experience, and obviously what we believe makes sense to us, no matter what method we came by our beliefs, and... oh yes. A doctor.
Not satisfied yet, you even manage to point out the fact that there are no well done studies showing the benefits of the technology you are shilling for. It's just you and the keyboard company, asking us to take it on faith. And it makes sense to you, so it must be right, right?
Someone better notify the FDA and the AMA - this could revolutionize medical research. If it makes sense to Undecidable, I'm sure that we need not worry that there is no experimental verification, or if trained M.D.'s disagree. After all - he's very sure! And if anyone gets hurt by putting off a doctor's visit and using his or another miracle keyboard instead, he'll support them in their early retirment, too!
You will, won't you? What - you don't have malpractice insurance?
I'm sure you'll coyly pretend all this is going over your head, so I'll repeat myself even more plainly: in medicine, something is considered worthless until proven otherwise according to the standards of the medical community. A potential improvement, such as a better keyboard, is nothing more than potential - worthless (except in closely controlled clinical trials) until proven otherwise. Without these minor impediments to your argument, I doubt either of us would be alive, since at some point or another someone's "beliefs" probably would have killed either ourselves our one of our ancestors.
You know, even if you're right, and instead of seeing a doctor, we should all go get the ergonomic keyboard of our choice when we feel "small amounts of pain" - just like you did - how do you know which keyboards are actually ergonomic and which are just pretending to be?
Oh, right. Ask Dr. Undecidable! He's done some reading. He'll tell you what pains are small and what are not. He'll even tell you which keyboards are best. You don't even need to come in for a visit - he can do it all, right over the internet, with his powerful intuition! How small is a small amount of pain, doctor? When does small become large? At what point do you give up on the keyboards and decide you need to get help? Maybe if we're giving up too fast, we're just "complaining that it takes so long to lose weight and get into shape."
Oh, right. We should only go to the doctor when it's "serious."
ATTENTION EVERYONE: Dr. Undecidable HAS JUST DECIDED THAT YOU ONLY NEED TO GO SEE A SPECIALIST WHEN YOU HAVE A "SERIOUS RSI."
Where was I? Ah yes. I'm afraid I see a pattern here, Dr. Undecidable. You have a series of things you seem to do when attempting to argue. They fit into a pretty simple pattern, actually.
For the sake of brevity, I'm going to list your responses and then provide the appropriate numeric code. Since it's apparent that your rapacious intellect has already devoured and revolutionized RSI-related medical care, I'm sure keeping up with this minor abstraction will be no problem for you. When you next respond, feel free to simply use the numbers I've laid out rather than writing out new fallacies in full - it may save you some time.
Let's begin.
You're apologizing for something that I never said or expressed. 1
If you feel that I am misinterpreting your statements, then by all means, please point out how. I am not interested in having an argument just for the sake of arguing. 1
You didn't make it clear if you were referring to the previous trials with my doctors or yours. 1
No where did you state that you changed anything about the way you type. 1
You should share with us more about what changes you (or your doctor) thought were useful. 1
Which is it? Do your doctors feel that ergonomic keyboards are "worthless"? Or do they feel that they are a "part of the puzzle"? 2
The advice that you espouse in your original post was to seek professional help and basically do whatever they say. 2
And I don't believe that ergonomic keyboards are a worthless piece to the long-term solution puzzle. 3
Tell me something. Are you in politics?
-Dave
I'm sorry you feel my comments have hit a bit too close to home for comfort - in my experience it's a sign you're not very bright if a logical, reasoned response to your points strikes you as nasty. The truth often is.
Once again you misinterpret me so as to have something you can mount a sensible argument against. Speaking of backing off, my experience was that the keyboard manufacturer was not nearly as circumspect about the chance of improvement with their product as you now appear to be. Hence my warning - don't deal with the keyboard manufacturers. Deal with a doctor.
Of course, when I say keyboard manufacturers, I'm talking about companies like Datahand (as I mentioned in my original post), and you are talking about the Microsoft Natural keyboard - perhaps the difference is too subtle for you. But pressing on...
So you've read a bit on the issue outside the product brochures, eh? You didn't cite any sources, but let's speak hypothetically for a moment; so, keyboards don't help people who've developed a problem... they're a preventative measure, according to "your reading." Funny; that's not what one might take away from your original post. But do you want to tell the crowd how people know if it's too late for a keyboard to help them? Or perhaps you'd rather leave that too... a qualified physician?
I also appreciate your feigned ignorance about my point - very amusing. Here, let me spell it out for you, since it's no fair if you're too baffled to follow along, right?
Try to read slowly so as not to become confused.
You said:
You must realize you silly you sound:
10 You have behavour X
20 You become unhealthy.
30 You give doctor money to cure symptom of behavour X.
40 Your doctor tells you to continue behavour X.
50 goto 10
And I said:
I see you made up an anecdote meant to illustrate that the doctor is only treating the symptoms... Very amsuing, Dr. Undecidable. I can see why, too. If you just came out and said "these cheating RSI specialists never cure the disease, all they do is treat the symptoms," it would be much more obvious what a nut you're turning out to be. It doesn't bother me much; my 3-4 appointments were several years ago, and I bet, given your beliefs, you'll be seeing a specialist before I'll be back.
Focus. Concentrate. If it still seems confusing, maybe you should take a walk and them come back to the computer.
Where was I? Ah yes. You're accusing me of "backing off from my original statement." Right. This may save you some trouble. No matter how much you hammer away at this, it won't change the fact that all I've done is relay the advice of my (very good) physician.
What was your complaint about that again? Oh yes. That doctors are greedy liars who want you to stay sick so they can keep treating you. Or, perhaps it was that doctors don't know what they're doing and can't help you.
Ok. Anything else to add?
Actually, I don't blindly believe it. In addition to having a highly qualified and well-respected specialist tell me, it reflects my own experience and the experience of others that I know. That would, actually, be more or less the opposite of "blind." Unless by "blind" you mean I didn't ask your opinion.
I'm adamant about these things because people get hurt, even get their lives ruined, by avoiding the doctor and putting their faith in gadgets and the dreams of marketing executives.
I see you made up an anecdote meant to illustrate that the doctor is only treating the symptoms... Very amsuing, Dr. Undecidable. I can see why, too. If you just came out and said "these cheating RSI specialists never cure the disease, all they do is treat the symptoms," it would be much more obvious what a nut you're turning out to be. It doesn't bother me much; my 3-4 appointments were several years ago, and I bet, given your beliefs, you'll be seeing a specialist before I'll be back.
Going around telling people not to trust doctors, to try to diagnose and treat themselves, has consequences I hope you just haven't thought about yet.
If you were paying attention instead of shilling for the keyboard company of the week, you would have noticed that the substance of my experience is that I changed quite a bit: work habits, exercise routine, chair and desk setup, etc. You could say this is what made the difference, but I think it more accurrate to simply say "being under the care of a competent professional."
In other words, someone like you, except with years of ivy league medical school, decades of clinical experience, and a little common sense.
The really ironic thing about this is that I don't think you'd be denying the obvious quite so vehemently if you weren't really worried about all this, somewhere in the back of your mind...
Good luck yourself. Don't say I didn't try to warn you.
It sounds like you had a terrible experience. Curious; are you talking about fusion surgery? In any case, chiropracters have their reputation for a reason. I totally agree that we need to be "informed consumers" with the medical profession - read everything you can, ask questions, and by all means seek 2nd and 3rd opinions about major issues, let alone if you have any doubt about what you're hearing. Finally, you absolutely have to shop around. Even in America, if you just pick a name out of the phone book you'll get terrible care. You have to ask people; read journals, make calls... Find out who people think is the best in the area and then ask them who the best is. The good thing is that, with insurance, the top 2% costs the same as the other 98% (within reason).
All that said, if it's you versus the M.D., I'll take the M.D. every time.
And are we even talking about that? Or are we really talking about a keyboard company versus the M.D.?
You must realize how ridiculous that sounds.
I suppose the keyboard maker took something like the businessman's equivalent of the hippocratic oath, except instead of "do no harm" it goes "sell as many as possible." There is no substitute for a qualified physician, and since most of us have insurance, there is no reason not to see one.
It is critically important that people understand that if they are having pain or numbness, they need to go get quality medical care right away. You're a fool to diagnose and treat yourself with something as important as this; you'll be prey to every opportunist with a gadget and a good story. And you desperately want to believe it, because you don't want the reality of a visit to a specialist. You want to replace your keyboard and have the problem go away.
The problem is that even if your symptoms are moderated by a keyboard or an office chair, you still have a problem. You're crazy not to have yourself under the care of a professional. Look at what you're fucking with! It's not worth it to screw around with something like this - it will end your professional life!
If your doctor tells you to go out and get keyboard X, Y, or Z, fine. But don't let denial and fear drive you to do something totally contrary to common sense. Certainly, don't try to pass off the justification that "all doctors are crooked" as a reason to avoid seeing a good specialist and doing what they tell you. Maybe you already realize how silly that sounds.
Have you gotten professional help? Tell me you at least got some medical advice.
As I said, I don't doubt the modern keyboard could be considerably improved. But you lost me when you started contradicting the M.D.
Are you a doctor? Any medical training at all? Go ahead, surprise me.
My understanding is that Cortisone can alleviate an inflamation feedback process and, as in my case, it's useful when used in concert with things like exercise, workplace ergonomics, and better habits.
RSI is a very scary thing, and the will to believe is equally powerful.
It's a big mistake for you to put your trust in a keyboard company rather than a doctor you trust.
If your doctor tells you to get a datahand, knock yourself out. Otherwise, caveat emptor.
If you're as bad as you say, I really hope you see a doctor as soon as you can. Managing your pain doesn't mean you have your condition under control.
I'm really not kidding about this.
-David
I didn't infer anything. This is coming to you straight from the mouth of an M.D.
And for the last time, I'm not saying split keyboards are worthless, just that "gimmicks" like the Datahand didn't accomplish anything, and a good doctor was effective almost immediately.
You're not a counter-example to anything. All I'm saying is this:
Never use an ergonomic keyboard as a substitute for a doctor.
The false sense of security a gadget and a little marketing material can provide, with the added bonus of the placebo effect, injures a lot of people. I mean A LOT of people.
Now, please, pay attention.
If you suspect you're developing an RSI, don't wait, GET A DOCTOR. DON'T DO ANYTHING TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT, YOUR CONDITION THAT SHE DOESN'T TELL YOU TO DO.
As I've also pointed out, often times the substance of what they tell you is simple workplace ergonomics. But people get injured trying to treat themselves, and in a 1st world country there's no reason for that.
I looked into this, but what I heard about it was sobering. For things like journalism and medical dictation, dragon and similar systems show a lot of promise. But for a "keyboard-bound task" like programming, I'm told the human voice proves far less durable than the hands - you'll talk yourself hoarse very quickly; you can't sustain an appropriate level of output that way... Of course, I haven't tried, although my experiences teaching (spending hours lecturing) make me inclined to believe it...
I'd love to hear from others who've tried to use dictation systems in a production coding environment.
Let's recap here. You're not an M.D. He is. Let's ask the crowd. Who do you believe?
I'll restate my position, which is:
The false sense of security a gadget and a little marketing material can provide, with the added bonus of the placebo effect, injures a lot of people. I mean A LOT of people.
Now, please, pay attention.
GET A DOCTOR. DON'T DO ANYTHING TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT, YOUR CONDITION THAT SHE DOESN'T TELL YOU TO DO.
Thank you.
Not news to me. I'm speaking about what might be used in general (the word is "default") to prevent injuries, which are an epidemic among "keyboard workers."
The standard QWERTY keyboards in use today are still a mess, and could still be improved. And improving them might even help prevent RSI. But my understanding of it, gleaned from the Doctors I've worked with is that the keyboard itself is a relatively small part of the puzzle, with work habits (regular breaks!), posture, chair and desk, and other aspects of your fitness (most of the exercises I did were back-related) making up the majority.
At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing Dvorak keyboards come into style.
I knew exactly what was happening to me, but at the time I was trying to start a business and didn't have health insurance. Becoming panicked, I goaded my partners into starting the search for insurnace we could afford - amid the spiraling costs and free-fall benefits currently available, this took 5 months. Toward the end, I was unable to work.
I read every single piece of literature on the internet about RSI, and then I moved on to the library and the medical books. This condition has happened in my family, and I immediately knew how much trouble I was in. Everything said the same thing: "see a specialist now - don't wait!" But I couldn't! And I inevitably ended up looking at the major "RSI keyboards" - i.e. Twiddler and Datahand. I "evaluated" the Datahand (this is a $1,000+ investment, but still less than the consultation fee of a good specialist) for several months.
The principle seemed sound to me - the literature they had appeared convincing and the salesman I spoke to claimed to be an RSI sufferer himself who had been helped "dramatically" by the keyboard. It got a lot of comments sitting on my desk - the thing looks quite sci-fi. However, the learning curve was steep (at least for me) - it took weeks of constant effort in order to get to a third of my current 90wpm. Convinced I might be saving my wrists, I let this massive and unbearable disruption to my work continue unabated, but I found that I still felt pain, and at the end of the day, I still felt numb. In hopeful moments, I thought perhaps it would pass as I gained proficiency with the keyboard.
Eventually I more or less stopped working altogether, using interns and co-workers to type for me. My partners started to get nervous - far from sticking with their friend, I knew they were starting to wonder how they could get rid of this medical disaster in their midst. I started to contemplate what the rest of my life would be like without the ability to type or perform other similarly intricate motions with my hands.
Finally, the insurance came through, and I canvased New York, looking for the best specialst I could find. In an oak-paneled office a few blocks from Lincoln Center, I mingled with young musical prodigies and their handlers, and I was given two cortisone injections, an exercise regimen, and a piece of advice:
"Those keyboards aren't worth the plastic they're molded out of."
I went back on the regular keyboard, and within weeks, I was 100% back to normal.
So, in summary: