But I do have a point here. The justification of violence with the reference to a threat is something present governments would like to have implemented. Not yours alone, some german politicians go in the same direction.
International conventions and agreements, which have been worked out over years with tedious and small political steps, state that war is the very last measure only to be taken when EVERY other way failed. Some politicians (and the Martin Lockheads and Krauss Maffeis behind them) would rather have the 'preemptive strike' established as a normal political move. This is a major set back of international politics.
The foreign policy of the current US government is devastating for the US country. For instance demanding complete immunity of every US citizen before international courts and threating to withdraw support of several well established international help (!) organization otherwise, regarded before the background of the torturing that happened in the Iraq is outrageous.
Back to the spammers I'd say, if anything fails, tracing back the sources of spam, blacklisting, filtering, removing the profit, establishing another mail protocol, patching our machines against trojans, then as a last measure we still can smash their heads. (No, I am not serious, for those who wondered)
On the other hand, I fundamentally disagree with your naive plea for peace and harmony.
There is no plea for peace and harmony in my post.
There is a word for people who are completely unwilling to use violence to stop aggression: victims.
Yes, that's why I am so totally thankful that finally someone saved us from the weapons of mass destruction and the terror that came from Saddam Hussein in Iraq. I sure hope that the war against terror will be at least at successfull as the war against drugs.
Sorry, but now you're being naive. Looks like you've been watching Fox News again my dear old chap.
-silence
PS: Seriously, we have to remove the cause and not the symptoms.
In all of the above cases, both the criminal and the person who paid for the criminal act to be committed are to blame.
I completely agree. Headmount the clients on a stick. Or stop buying their viagra.
I don't quite see your point.
The point is, that as long as there is a demand for spam on the clients side, there will be someone who actually sends the mails. Demand is there as long as they make some kind of profit from spam. This is capitalism at its finest. Few benefit at the cost of many. Just as Brian Kobe makes millions from the garment and shoes we buy. Yes, he offers us his skills for entertainment. The spammers clients offer us larger penisses. Taken by the amount of spam we have there must be some really huge dicks out there.
They also steal millions of man-hours and billions of dollars per year
I am not actually sure about this one. They are using the infrastructure that is already there and that has already been paid for. Does a road become less of a road because someone is driving on it?
But I guess you are right.
I come to ask myself: When a factory is polluting a river and through the river the sea, then where would you start cleaning the water? At the sea? No! At the factory! Why do we have to use spam filters in out mail programs while the ISPs are sitting 'up river' watching the whole crap flow?
Yes, I know that trojans are using the computers of unaware people to send spam. If this happens, then the ISP can disable the account and send paper mail to the customer explaining what happened.
SMTP protocol They never intended for it to be used to facilitate theft of resources in order to send cost-shifted advertising.
I agree. The inventors of the protocol are not to blame. But blank cables are not godd for providing electricity in the house because people die when they touch them. That's why there is plastic shielding around the cables. Gopher: has been replaced by http: quite by itself. Where is the problem with smtp for fucks sake?
If someone pays a contract killer to kill your wife, then who is to blame? If someone pays a burglar to steal your car audio, then who is the criminal? If a cigarette company pays an ad agency to make ads for cigarettes, then who is to blame? If someone pays a spammer to send online v!agra mails, then who is the criminal? If an addict pays the dealer for drugs, then...
If an oil company bribes a government to invade an oil producing country under false premises, then who is the criminal?
I totally agree with all of you, spam is a pita and of course the spammers are to blame.
But the other question is: Aren't we loosing the dimension here? Spammers and their clients are stealing from our attention span. Other criminals, governments and corporations are endangering the lives of individuals, the existence of endangered species and the sanity of our societies.
And by the way, why not kill those who invented the shabby SMTP protocol in the first place?
-silence
And imagine that bat in your hand. You don't want to swing? Not even a little?
Hey, I did not know we're having a 1920's retro trend. Man, if it is swing time, I'll swing... with or without a bat in my hand
You can't even be vaguely serious with what you are saying.
As much as I hate spam, I can not agree with calling for cruelty and violence. Is that the spirit of our ages? Torture and abuse grown into a trend? Violence as an appropriate mean? Shock and awe as social corrective measures? Is there not other way?
Somehow in my naive mind I had the impression that we had left this behind in the middle ages, but these days I am disillusioned more and more.
Even with the smiley I can not find funny what I read there.
... you ususally use one of the few which are installed and allowed to use.
This is even more true if you are a consultant. Right now I have the choice between Perl, PHP and sh. I'd love to do Python but convincing my bosses is not worth the effort. And the choice between those boils down to "Is there already a script which does somehow what I want?". I take that one and modify it.
Heck, for most of the stuff that has to be scripted it is totally egal which language you use (most of the time ist is "read csv, rearrange and import into database xy" or the other way round anyway.). Don't waste time on language decision. Developers tend to be almost religious about it.
How can you all go on an bitch about how this thing does not look like an iPod? I simply don't get it.
iRiver is producing high quality geek toys in supreme quality, supporting you favourite nerdy thingy software pet projects like Linux and Ogg Vorbis with a clear commitment to continue doing so and all you can do is complain that it does no look like an iPod? C'mon, what sort of geek are you? Those who build Mini-Itx clusters or those who read read glossy future magazines?
If you want an iPod, then the heck go and buy one and try watching videos on it, but please shut up.
Hardware is very well done, buttons sit tight and work precicely, display is good, overall good quality feel to it (I have not taken it apart though).
Software simply works, navigation is ok. They are wasting some of the display space for icons which are not needed. The device froze only once when I used it sitting in the bathtub. Maybe conditions were too moist.
Battery holds up approx. as advertised.
Feature rich (radio, recording to mp3, plays ogg vorbis).
Accessoires almost complete, including microphone and a wrapper/bag for the player, lacking digital cable.
Sound quality way above my expectations. The earphones are really ok, no need to replace them.
Used it frequently for around three months now. Happy customer me is.
It would be funny, if I would not remember the one guy who seriously (!) claimed that he liked the imperial system better, because 'miles' SOUNDS better than 'kilometers'.
Ironically the metric system is actually more sound than the imperial.
yeah, but that's only because air travel is so much more popular than rail.
Maybe in your country. (May I be so bold as to assume that your nick is a reference to food and not the german city?)
I doubt that there are two full stuffed airplanes going from Cologne to Berlin EVERY HOUR from 6am to 9pm. The ICE (german high velocity train) is crammed fridays and mondays.
Transatlantic, now that's a different story. Have not seen any railway there...
But even the fastest trains still are far slower then getting on a airplane to go cross country.
Not if you take into account all the check-in and check-out time and the time it takes you to get to the airport. High velocity trains can go with more than 300km/h and take you right into the heart of the city. I can hop on the train just a minute before it 'takes off' and buy a ticket inside.
If trains arn't dirt cheap it won't work. It shouldn't cost the same as a airplane ticket.
If you get the same transport (in terms of being taken to another place) in the same timerange (give or take 10-15%) as with airtravel, then why the heck should a trainride be cheaper than an airflight?
There is a limited supply of fossil fuels.
And a lot of the fuel in a plane is used to keep it above the ground, whereas trains simply roll on the rails. In short, trains are much more energy efficient, which means that even if they use fuel directly or indirectly through electricity, the fossil energy will last much longer.
Other environmental effects are often neglected. Planes produce exhaust gases way up in a zone where they reduce the ozone layer which is shielding us from radiation. Ever been in Australia? "Between eleven and three, slip under a tree!", that's what they teach their children in the kindergarden down under.
Sure, you'd be perfectly free to do so. However you would be locked out of the real internet. Your new "freenet" would not have access to any of the millions of existing websites.
Nonono, the name was FIDOnet. It used Modems and the 'Store and Forward' logic. And it was fun, and it had culture. We already HAD our own infrastructure and in theory no one could stop us reviving it. And there could be 'trust'ed gateways to the Internet and cachenodes inside this network.
But probably you are right, better stand up against than run from the enemy. Even tho "There is no disgrace in running away from a man with a baseball bat."
For the rest of your comment I'd give you +1 insightful if I had any modpoints.
The president's Cyber Security advisor gave a speech at an industry conference and he called on ISP's to install these routers and in effect to impose Trusted Computing compliance onto all of their customers as part of the terms of service for internet access.
Yes, and this will be the time when all of us geeks will dig out good ole Fidonet Software and start rebuilding our own infrastructure.
But right now I have a valid contract with my provider, which does not require me to run some specific hardware and I would refuse to sign any such terms.
I don't think that ISPs will follow this recommendation. They have happily gained millions of new home "I can read my email and use a browser" customers who would definately refuse to buy a new computer for no obvious advantage.
Slashdot Mirror
SMTP is already established. [snip]
Are you saying that telnet is not being gradually replaced by ssh? And ftp by http, smtp and bittorrent (unfortunately)?
If we know who is sending the mails, then why can't we block them or sue them?
I am pretty confident that there could be a protocol which makes spamming more difficult.
-silence
So where is the difference?
Let new-safe-sound-and-secure-MTP go head to head with SMTP and let the former win.
-silence
I admit, this was an unfair move.
But I do have a point here. The justification of violence with the reference to a threat is something present governments would like to have implemented. Not yours alone, some german politicians go in the same direction.
International conventions and agreements, which have been worked out over years with tedious and small political steps, state that war is the very last measure only to be taken when EVERY other way failed.
Some politicians (and the Martin Lockheads and Krauss Maffeis behind them) would rather have the 'preemptive strike' established as a normal political move. This is a major set back of international politics.
The foreign policy of the current US government is devastating for the US country.
For instance demanding complete immunity of every US citizen before international courts and threating to withdraw support of several well established international help (!) organization otherwise, regarded before the background of the torturing that happened in the Iraq is outrageous.
Back to the spammers I'd say, if anything fails, tracing back the sources of spam, blacklisting, filtering, removing the profit, establishing another mail protocol, patching our machines against trojans, then as a last measure we still can smash their heads. (No, I am not serious, for those who wondered)
-silence
Split personality?
-jsl
On the other hand, I fundamentally disagree with your naive plea for peace and harmony.
There is no plea for peace and harmony in my post.
There is a word for people who are completely unwilling to use violence to stop aggression: victims.
Yes, that's why I am so totally thankful that finally someone saved us from the weapons of mass destruction and the terror that came from Saddam Hussein in Iraq. I sure hope that the war against terror will be at least at successfull as the war against drugs.
Sorry, but now you're being naive. Looks like you've been watching Fox News again my dear old chap.
-silence
PS: Seriously, we have to remove the cause and not the symptoms.
In all of the above cases, both the criminal and the person who paid for the criminal act to be committed are to blame.
I completely agree.
Headmount the clients on a stick. Or stop buying their viagra.
I don't quite see your point.
The point is, that as long as there is a demand for spam on the clients side, there will be someone who actually sends the mails. Demand is there as long as they make some kind of profit from spam. This is capitalism at its finest. Few benefit at the cost of many. Just as Brian Kobe makes millions from the garment and shoes we buy. Yes, he offers us his skills for entertainment. The spammers clients offer us larger penisses.
Taken by the amount of spam we have there must be some really huge dicks out there.
They also steal millions of man-hours and billions of dollars per year
I am not actually sure about this one. They are using the infrastructure that is already there and that has already been paid for. Does a road become less of a road because someone is driving on it?
But I guess you are right.
I come to ask myself: When a factory is polluting a river and through the river the sea, then where would you start cleaning the water? At the sea? No! At the factory! Why do we have to use spam filters in out mail programs while the ISPs are sitting 'up river' watching the whole crap flow?
Yes, I know that trojans are using the computers of unaware people to send spam. If this happens, then the ISP can disable the account and send paper mail to the customer explaining what happened.
SMTP protocol
They never intended for it to be used to facilitate theft of resources in order to send cost-shifted advertising.
I agree. The inventors of the protocol are not to blame. But blank cables are not godd for providing electricity in the house because people die when they touch them. That's why there is plastic shielding around the cables. Gopher: has been replaced by http: quite by itself. Where is the problem with smtp for fucks sake?
-silence
If someone pays a contract killer to kill your wife, then who is to blame?
If someone pays a burglar to steal your car audio, then who is the criminal?
If a cigarette company pays an ad agency to make ads for cigarettes, then who is to blame?
If someone pays a spammer to send online v!agra mails, then who is the criminal?
If an addict pays the dealer for drugs, then...
If an oil company bribes a government to invade an oil producing country under false premises, then who is the criminal?
I totally agree with all of you, spam is a pita and of course the spammers are to blame.
But the other question is: Aren't we loosing the dimension here? Spammers and their clients are stealing from our attention span. Other criminals, governments and corporations are endangering the lives of individuals, the existence of endangered species and the sanity of our societies.
And by the way, why not kill those who invented the shabby SMTP protocol in the first place?
-silence
And imagine that bat in your hand.
You don't want to swing? Not even a little?
Hey, I did not know we're having a 1920's retro trend. Man, if it is swing time, I'll swing... with or without a bat in my hand
Care to compare UIDs?
-silence
"...and nothing ever could."
You can't even be vaguely serious with what you are saying.
As much as I hate spam, I can not agree with calling for cruelty and violence. Is that the spirit of our ages? Torture and abuse grown into a trend? Violence as an appropriate mean? Shock and awe as social corrective measures? Is there not other way?
Somehow in my naive mind I had the impression that we had left this behind in the middle ages, but these days I am disillusioned more and more.
Even with the smiley I can not find funny what I read there.
-silence
Bender:
Yeah right! I'm gonna build my own car. With Blackjack and hookers! Actually, forget about the car!
Only because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they are not wearing this camouflage already...
-silence
... you ususally use one of the few which are installed and allowed to use.
This is even more true if you are a consultant. Right now I have the choice between Perl, PHP and sh. I'd love to do Python but convincing my bosses is not worth the effort.
And the choice between those boils down to "Is there already a script which does somehow what I want?". I take that one and modify it.
Heck, for most of the stuff that has to be scripted it is totally egal which language you use (most of the time ist is "read csv, rearrange and import into database xy" or the other way round anyway.). Don't waste time on language decision. Developers tend to be almost religious about it.
-silence
How can you all go on an bitch about how this thing does not look like an iPod? I simply don't get it.
iRiver is producing high quality geek toys in supreme quality, supporting you favourite nerdy thingy software pet projects like Linux and Ogg Vorbis with a clear commitment to continue doing so and all you can do is complain that it does no look like an iPod? C'mon, what sort of geek are you? Those who build Mini-Itx clusters or those who read read glossy future magazines?
If you want an iPod, then the heck go and buy one and try watching videos on it, but please shut up.
-silence
What's IRiver's reputation for quality?
I have a iHP120 and I am very satisfied.
Hardware is very well done, buttons sit tight and work precicely, display is good, overall good quality feel to it (I have not taken it apart though).
Software simply works, navigation is ok. They are wasting some of the display space for icons which are not needed. The device froze only once when I used it sitting in the bathtub. Maybe conditions were too moist.
Battery holds up approx. as advertised.
Feature rich (radio, recording to mp3, plays ogg vorbis).
Accessoires almost complete, including microphone and a wrapper/bag for the player, lacking digital cable.
Sound quality way above my expectations. The earphones are really ok, no need to replace them.
Used it frequently for around three months now.
Happy customer me is.
-silence
I am pretty sure the developer appreciates feedback.
-silence
regards,
-silence
It would be funny, if I would not remember the one guy who seriously (!) claimed that he liked the imperial system better, because 'miles' SOUNDS better than 'kilometers'.
Ironically the metric system is actually more sound than the imperial.
Oh my...
-silence
Actually your government signed a paper back in 1975 agreeing that the US would adopt the metric system (aka SI = Systeme Internationale).
It has only been around thirty years to adopt, maybe it needs a little more time...
*grinning*
-silence
Actually I think it would be a very good idea if they seeded and put up .torrents on their page.
This is what bittorrent is all about, isn't it?
-silence
What a WASTE!!
-silence
yeah, but that's only because air travel is so much more popular than rail.
Maybe in your country. (May I be so bold as to assume that your nick is a reference to food and not the german city?)
I doubt that there are two full stuffed airplanes going from Cologne to Berlin EVERY HOUR from 6am to 9pm. The ICE (german high velocity train) is crammed fridays and mondays.
Transatlantic, now that's a different story. Have not seen any railway there...
-silence
But even the fastest trains still are far slower then getting on a airplane to go cross country.
Not if you take into account all the check-in and check-out time and the time it takes you to get to the airport. High velocity trains can go with more than 300km/h and take you right into the heart of the city. I can hop on the train just a minute before it 'takes off' and buy a ticket inside.
If trains arn't dirt cheap it won't work. It shouldn't cost the same as a airplane ticket.
If you get the same transport (in terms of being taken to another place) in the same timerange (give or take 10-15%) as with airtravel, then why the heck should a trainride be cheaper than an airflight?
There is a limited supply of fossil fuels.
And a lot of the fuel in a plane is used to keep it above the ground, whereas trains simply roll on the rails. In short, trains are much more energy efficient, which means that even if they use fuel directly or indirectly through electricity, the fossil energy will last much longer.
Other environmental effects are often neglected. Planes produce exhaust gases way up in a zone where they reduce the ozone layer which is shielding us from radiation. Ever been in Australia? "Between eleven and three, slip under a tree!", that's what they teach their children in the kindergarden down under.
-silence
Well, Condoleezza is not mine, but I'd surely like to see some drugs in her. Maybe she'd relax a little bit.
SCNR
-silence
Sure, you'd be perfectly free to do so. However you would be locked out of the real internet. Your new "freenet" would not have access to any of the millions of existing websites.
Nonono, the name was FIDOnet. It used Modems and the 'Store and Forward' logic. And it was fun, and it had culture. We already HAD our own infrastructure and in theory no one could stop us reviving it.
And there could be 'trust'ed gateways to the Internet and cachenodes inside this network.
But probably you are right, better stand up against than run from the enemy. Even tho "There is no disgrace in running away from a man with a baseball bat."
For the rest of your comment I'd give you +1 insightful if I had any modpoints.
-silence
The president's Cyber Security advisor gave a speech at an industry conference and he called on ISP's to install these routers and in effect to impose Trusted Computing compliance onto all of their customers as part of the terms of service for internet access.
Yes, and this will be the time when all of us geeks will dig out good ole Fidonet Software and start rebuilding our own infrastructure.
But right now I have a valid contract with my provider, which does not require me to run some specific hardware and I would refuse to sign any such terms.
I don't think that ISPs will follow this recommendation. They have happily gained millions of new home "I can read my email and use a browser" customers who would definately refuse to buy a new computer for no obvious advantage.
-silence