iRiver Preps Linux-based Media Player

Mr_Silver writes "Infosync is reporting that iRiver is soon to release the Linux based PMP-120 media player which through its colour screen can support MP3, ASF, Ogg Vorbis, JPEG, BMP, AVI, MP4, DivX 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, XviD, MPEG4 SP, Advanced SP and MPEG1. Technically very cool (even more so if it is hackable), but really really ugly. iRiver really should learn how to design nice looking hardware from the experts."

Comments

Enough already!

[jargoone]

I'm so fucking sick and tired of people saying that things are ugly compared to the iPod. Yes, the iPod looks pretty decent, but who cares? I don't look, I listen! If you want to talk about size and ease-of-use, those are factors, but so are features and price. Not everyone needs a "good looking" mp3 player to validate themselves.

Not to mention the fact that this unit isn't even ugly. I think it looks pretty damn nice, and probably will cost about as much as an iPod with FAR fewer features.

Re:Enough already!

[nizo]

I think the submitter meant they should make it in a pretty shade of lime green or mulberry purple to make it less ugly perhaps?

Re:Enough already!

[wooby]

Absolutely dead on. Function is beauty when it comes to something that feature filled. The only problem I can see with the unit, that is related to aesthetics, is the usability factor. I can't tell from the pictures how intuitive its interface will be. Even slight interface problems can really be annoying with devices that have few human inputs.

Re:Enough already!

[L4ck_0f_54n17y]

I agree that the ipod is very sexy, but do you really want to pay hundreds more and/or sacrifice features, just for a few ounces of molded plastic?

I have a simple solution to those who find the PMP-120 ugly: print out a picture of the ipod, and tape it on the back, and voila! You have an awesome multimedia device AND it looks like an ipod!

Re:Enough already!

[Jugalator]

I actually don't like Apple's designs, but it seems like people like me are in minority... :-P

Sure, I found Apple's anonymous white boxes being cool for to their innovative minimalism but now I'm so fed up with this design in everything Apple makes.

Same goes for Aqua btw. It's about as exciting as Windows XP's Luna is to me now. Of course not as candy-like and colorful, but still just as overexposed. Still just as boring and dull. Get rid of the fucking jelly buttons already! Oh well, I guess I just like new things every now and then and Apple don't. Probably to preserve their brand...

I personally think that iRiver thing is perfectly fine for use amongst people without getting ashamed of it. And then the visual requirements are satisfied for me, and I proceed to look at the features. *gasp*

Re:Enough already!

[atarione]

Mulberry would OWN.. note to iriver I will fully be the first in line for the special edition mulberry one.

Re:Enough already!

[Silas is back]

Yes, it IS ugly.
and why the hell should I carry around a color-TFT-screen while LISTENING to music? I'm not gonna look at a visualizer, I'm gonna select a playlist, push play and put it into my pocket.

Yes, an iPod has fewer features. But it has all you need to listen to music, and a damn good user interface, too. The iPods design is not only good because it looks good, it's good because its well thought out.

okay, you can watch movies on that one. but for me, I'm not really interested in watching a movie on a 3.5" screen. if you do watch movies on that one, you only do, because you can do, not because it's fun.

Re:Enough already!

[ifwm]

You're not the only one that's over apple's look. I never really cared for either imac, the ipod, or the mini. Dunno, I just don't find confectionary colors (pastels) to be desirable, nor do I like sterile white.

By the way since when is making something square and white innovative, original design?

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

North or South or Central?

Re:Enough already!

[Kenja]

Boy did you ever miss the point of this device. An iPod makes a better MP3 player then your computer as well. Is your computer ugly because of this?

Re:Enough already!

[dfghjk]

If you're not into watching movies then a movie player's probably not for you.

If the iPod's so well thought out then why does it self-discharge in only two days? I'd prefer a real on-off switch and a multiple week standby time (along with better than 6 hours of play time) but I can get that with iPod alternatives. The iPod is pretty and nothing more.

Re:Enough already!

[senzafine]

Because everyone isn't a computer geek. Look and feel matters. That's part of the reason why the Ipod is so popular despite it's price tag. Marketing helps as well...and so does a good user interface. Simply put, there's a reason why the Ipod is still the leader when it comes to portable music devices. Samsung, Dell, iRiver, and Creative all have comprable products. But the buyers determine the market and the buyers want Ipods.

Re:Enough already!

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

I would agree if the company hadn't modeled its name on Apple's products.

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, if 'you' were to do so it would be soley for the fact that you could. If 'I' were to do so, it would be because I would genuinly enjoy doing so. Please do not pretend you know what I like better than I do.

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's true that people with taste will always be the minority.

Re:Enough already!

[nvrrobx]

You are not the target audience that Apple is running television ads to capture.

So be fucking sick of it all you want, but Apple isn't sweating that you haven't bought their product.

Re:Enough already!

[curious.corn]

You wear a casio lcd wristwatch (with integrated calculator) don't you? ;-)

Re:Enough already!

[ChrisLambrou]

Why the hell should you carry around a colour TFT screen whilst listening to music?

No one's suggesting that you need to. The iPod and a miriad of memory and HD based music players will already do that job for you without the need for a large colour display. What sets this apart from music players is that it's a video player. Obviously if that's not what you want, you'd be wasting your money here and an iPod will do just fine. But for those who want portable video, the iPod doesn't cut the mustard.

It seems a little unfair to criticise this device with respect to the iPod, when they are essentially different types of device. It's like complaining about a new model of television because you only want to listen to the radio. I'm sure plenty of people would find enjoyment in an episode or two of the Simpsons or Futurama during an otherwise uneventful commuter trip, or even just whilst lounging about in the garden or on the beach

Re:Enough already!

[MikeXpop]

For the needy Warning: PDF

I remembered something similar with the normal iPods, but this is what came out in a google search.

Re:Enough already!

[MikeXpop]

And to answer my own question: The 2nd Generation iPod

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

pah .. i'll put my IHP-140 against an iPod any
day of the week and twice any other day ..
windows is pretty .. osx is pretty .. *nix
Works .. ipod is pretty .. iriver kicks its ass,
tho

function over form .. anything else is stupidity

but, then, apple has survived on the stupidity
of people .. you can spruce up the wording any
way you like - the fact is, with a few limited
exceptions, mac users are ignorant of how things
*really* work

"but i don't want to know how it works, i just
want it to work", you say

fine for you .. go spend $500 on your iCripple ..
give me something with some upgradable firmware
and all the extras for less money, thanks

Re:Enough already!

[zsau]

I'm glad it's not just me! I was thinking of buying a Mac laptop, but two things put me off, one of which was the fact that Aqua is ugly as all hell.

Re:Enough already!

[SengirV]

I think I shaved with the H120 this morning - Don't tell me what to do!!!

Re:Enough already!

[ColMustard]

I've never seen anyone tout that Apple's design was supposed to be innovative or original. However, you can have whatever opinion you like about the design itself.

As for me, I like it not because I consider it original, and nor do I care how stylish it is. I like it just because it's a clean and uncluttered look.

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

::yawn::

Re:Enough already!

[xanadu-xtroot.com]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are nothing but right. Personally I don't think this thing looks bad at all. Yea, OK Apple's things are probably the best-ish looking things on the market, but so-freakin'-what? OK, maybe beauty sells, but I personally take function before form...

Re:Enough already!

[halowolf]

Becuase of the comment on its design, can we mark the submitted article itself as a troll ? :)

Re:Enough already!

[loid_void]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholders!

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice poem dipshit, line breaks are for paragraphs. Oh, and daisies are pretty or something, so mods don't think I'm being mean.

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

probably will cost about as much as an iPod with FAR fewer features.

Do you mean the iPod will have far fewer or this unit, because this unit has a lot more in terms of codecs and it can play video, which the iPod can't.

Re:Enough already!

[HaggiZ]

Actually, for the vast majority of people "features" aren't important at all. Anybody who has a decent amount of sales experience or training is well aware that to the vast majority you can't sell "features", you sell benefits.

I don't care if it has a colour screen, a 1tb disk, wifi and full surround if it isn't any easier to use and doesn't offer anything other than some new "features"

Re:Enough already!

[generationxyu]

This just in... iRiver has just announced two new PMP-120 designs, called "Flower Power" and "Blue Dalmatian."

Seriously, Apple, I love you, but what were you thinking there?

Re:Enough already!

[Misao]

If I could get an iPod mini in mulberry purple I'd be lining up already.

*sigh* /sticks with the simple silver one.

-misao

Re:Enough already!

[ValourX]

No, you're not the only one who thinks Apple hardware looks lame.

I want a machine, not a toy.

-Jem

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hand it to a 5 year old with some colouring pens then.. It'll be REAL colourful when you get it back...

Re:Enough already!

[Alex Belits]

Smoking. It's not what they were thinking, it's what they were smoking there.

Re:Enough already!

[Silas is back]

If you're not into watching movies then a movie player's probably not for you.

that's true. But that's not what I wanted to say, I just wanted to point out why every mp3-player today has to compare to the iPod. And that's simply because it's a great mp3-player.

If the iPod's so well thought out then why does it self-discharge in only two days?

Mine doesn't, and after 22 Months of usage, it still has 9h of Battery life to go.

Re:Enough already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mine doesn't, and after 22 Months of usage, it still has 9h of Battery life to go.

WOW!!! HOLY SHIT!!!

Er... what do you mean, you charged it? That's cheating!

Re:Enough already!

[JaxWeb]

I agree, and actually find iRivers products more attractive.

Re:Enough already!

[Espen]

I don't look, I listen!

What would your interested in a multi-media device with a colour screen be then?

I think Jobs hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that portable video devices are not logical extensions to portable audio devices. Watching something is not similar enough to listening to something to make this an obviously meaningful product.

Re:Enough already!

[lvdrproject]

You will feel this way about anything, given time.

After 5 or 6 years of the same - exact - thing with Windows, you better believe i was excited about Luna. It was absolutely the most beautiful thing i'd ever seen, and i used it for almost a year. Then i discovered that third parties had better interface design to offer, and i ditched it, and now it's horribly ugly to me. I felt the same way about Aqua -- it was the most fantastic interface-design change since the original Macintosh GUI. Now? No, Aqua is retarded, and if i had a Mac that could run OS X (stupid second-generation iMac...), i would definitely be using a third-party skin.

At least, this is how i feel, and it's how most of the people who even bother to worry about what their computers look like feel. Almost everybody else i know couldn't care less what their computer looks like -- they go with however it was set when they got it. ... But, there are a few that i know that absolutely can not change, too. :/

Re:Enough already!

[Gilmoure]

I'm running OS X 10.3.4 on a first gen iMac. Maxed out the RAM and it runs ok. It just doesn't take advantage of GL rendering of the GUI. Still looks ok.

Re:Enough already!

[dfghjk]

Current generation? The first generation units were good. Second generation ones had controls that didn't work as well and the current ones self-discharge completely in only a few days. I've owned all three generation and know several people with the current ones. They all do that. Mine only got 6 hours of playback on a full charge. Now it's in a new home.

As to why every player being compared to the iPod, it just seems that way here because there are so many Apple fans. My Karma is a better player than the iPod although it could be better as well. If I only used the iPod for an hour or two between charges I might like it better. For such short uses a flash players seems a better choice and its not hard to get ones with over 1GB these days.

Re:Enough already!

[lvdrproject]

Well, being the curious person i am, i would've installed it myself by now (it just barely meets the requirements)... except that my CD-ROM drive is broken and i haven't got the resources to replace it. :(

Re:Enough already!

[Gilmoure]

Parts availability is one of the big problems with iMacs. The iMacs use laptop cd drives, so if you know of someone with a dead laptop, you should be able to use it's cd drive. The same goes for some Sun workstations. I just used a cd drive from an iMac to replace one in a Sun box. Sun guy was kinda' sad that it actually worked. He doesn't like Macs. I'd be glad to offer you another cd drive but we've already disposed of all the dead computers this year.

I doubt if your iMac has firewire, otherwise, you could use a firewire based cd drive. The iMacs can't boot from USB, either. About the only thing possible would be to remove the hard drive, plug it into a firewire case (I use a case from a dead cd burner) and then install the system from another Mac. As long as it's not a G5, it should be able to boot the iMac just fine.

Re:Enough already!

[Hooded One]

I've tried out friends' iPods and store models, and I have a burning question for everybody who talks about its "wonderful interface."

How the hell do you get back to the "Now Playing" screen after going into the menu? You can wait however long for it to automatically do that, but... that's seriously stupid, since you can only change the volume from the Now Playing screen. You should NEVER have to wait for the player to do its thing just so you can change the volume. If there is some way to get back quicker, I've missed it entirely, but until I figure it out, the iPod gets the Seal of Stupidity(TM).

I've also been able to try out a Rio Karma in the store, and I must say it is a pleasure to use. There are actual volume controls, and the thumbstick navigation is pretty nifty.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a demo model of one of the iRiver iHP players yet. Has anybody else come across one, and if so, what store was it?

And honestly, this new player is a lot better looking than the comparable portable video players I've seen in stores.

Re:Enough already!

[ratlater]

You don't have to wait. The very last menu item of the top most (root) menu is called Now Playing. Select that and bam you are back to the Now Playing screen. The location of this menu is perfect because you blindly go back to the top menu the give the scroll wheel a good flick to the bottom to get back to now playing without looking at the iPod.

Regarding the separate volume buttons for the Rio, I don't like that at all. On a device the size a tiny MP3 player I don't want a lot of extra buttons, plus you need to be sure you are on the + or - button. With the wheel you always know what way your changing the volume, plus you can do it quickly. Don't have to push a button a bunch of time to crank the volume or turn it way down.

-matt

Re:Enough already!

[Hooded One]

Having to go to the root menu is too much, IMO. It'd be a bit better if the menu item were immediately visible, such as on the top of the list instead of the bottom, but having to tap the menu button several times then scroll down isn't the most brilliant nor the most obvious way to change the volume.

As for volume buttons, you should be familiar where they are on most any player after minimal usage. That is, if they're not already in an obvious configuration, i.e. the top one is up and the bottom one is down. Plus, most players will have good response time for just holding down the button for a short time. Much less movement than twirling your thumb around.

Re:Enough already!

[mrchaotica]

Skin it, then. (here is one to make it look like XP)

I personally prefer Aqua to Luna (although I've seen some [non-Microsoft] XP themes that I like even better), but what really surprised me when I got a Mac (to try it out - I'd used Windows and Linux but not Mac), was the ease of accomplishing tasks with it. Technologies like Applescript, Expose, an extra modifier key (Command/Apple key), ubiquitous drag-and-drop, etc. are what makes it better, not the eye candy. I'd still like it even if it looked like TWM.

Re:Enough already!

[rozz]

i guess the concept of "being cool" is totally lost on you

Re:Enough already!

[Silas is back]

as already mentioned, there is a "Now playing" -menu at the very top (root).

but that's - even in my apple-friendly position - not the best they did do. No problem, you get a remote for free with every model since the 2nd generation, and if you have good playlists that suit you well, you don't need to play around with the iPod itself, you'll use that remote, which has separate volume-controls on it.

as for me, I only see my iPod when I have to recharge it (and that's not to often, my battery still lasts 9h continuous playing), for the rest of the time, I have it somewhere in my clothes and only use the remote.

Ugly? you're wrong!

[Quebec]

You find the iRiver ugly???
I'm sorry not to agree with you, cheap plastic design "A La Apple" is definitivly not the norm in my book, actually the iRiver looks nicer than anything that was made by Apple. (Did my french head got the right "than" this time?).

P.S.: can't wait to be able to buy one myself!

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[applef00]

I agree that the iRiver isn't bad looking. But I adore the Apple design ethic. Clean and smooth. I do wish that they'd put some different shots of the damn thing on the website other than just front shots at slightly different tilts.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[Anonymous Coward]

It absolutely kills me how little most people seem to know about good product design. Apple's products look exactly like Apple products, not like a slice of heaven as most Apple supporters seem to claim.
Listening to someone talk about Apple as being the epitome of "pretty" product design is like listening to people discuss the use of Squeak for designing good interfaces.
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/up loads/683/squ eak34-1600x1200.1.png
Squeak is the absolute _worst_ user interface in existence, yet at Georgia Tech, this is the software they use to teach undergrads about how to design software and build user interfaces.

Now, the least surprising thing is that most Squeak users _love_ Apple.

Idiots.

And no, I don't expect this to be read by anyone. I'm posting out of mere annoyance.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[blueskies]

Nope. I don't find the iRiver ugly either. Not sure where that comment came from.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[ntaylor963]

I own an iRiver iHP-120 and find it has a fine interface and nice looking. I record my band's live gigs on it and they come out great, besides it being a fine player. iPods may be slightly nicer but they can't record. Besides CNET gives top marks to the iRiver products, many of which are editors choice. http://cnet.search.com/search?chkpt=astg.cnet.fd.s earch.cnet&q=iriver iRiver products stand out as technically more sophisticated than Apple, which I thought was the slashdot crowd. Their new player fits right in.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[SlowGenius]

I'll put in a "seconded" motion in support of iRiver's iHP-120. I bought my wife a 3rd gen 15GB iPod that might have been okay, if (a) the battery hadn't been s--t, and (b) the thing had been compatible with Win98SE. After struggling with both problems, I returned it to the store and got the 20GB iHP-120 (price was a complete wash after taking into account the ridiculously overpriced USB2.0 converter thingie for the iPod).

We couldn't be happier with the iRiver: not only is it 33% larger in disk storage capacity (maybe more when you take into account iPod's '15GB' is really 13.8 GB; not sure if iRiver fudges numbers the same way too), but the battery life is twice as long as what the iPod's was SUPPOSED to be (if it had worked properly, which it didn't). Add in OGG support, the voice recorder, a decent shock-protective-leather carrying case, ability to take the unit apart and replace the battery if need be, and the knowledge that I wasw no longer coping with a product that was deliberately sabotaged to NOT to work with Win98SE, and I am SO glad I made the switch _from_ Apple. :)

Sorry, Apple: when you spend more on marketing than on your engineering and QC, you might get customers but you won't keep them.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[shione]

I think it looks gorgeous. If the price is right I'll definately be picking one up. ogggg.... mmmmmmm

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the matter, you don't have QuickTime installed? (Or here for the mini.)

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an iriver iHP-120 and it looks good.
Strangely, the picture on Iriver's website makes it look much worse than it really does and likely causes people to believe that it is ugly.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[zsau]

(Did my french head got the right "than" this time?).

I think so, but my English-native head can never get in right either, so I don't think it's much of an issue...

P.S.: can't wait to be able to buy one myself!

Ditto!

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[applef00]

No, I was talking about the iRiver photos, not any of the Apple stuff.

Re:Ugly? you're wrong!

[NemosomeN]

Just replying to say how shocked I was. Squeak is AMAZINGLY ugly. I was sincerely shocked. I would slap my professor. Twice. Unless he was black, because that would be a hate crime. (Family Guy quote, don't kill me. haha)

OGG

[Anonymous Coward]

I would get it if it played OGG.

Re:OGG

[atarione]

Read the post it does support .OGG

Now go buy one.

Re:OGG

[Princess Firefly]

I think it can.

Re:OGG

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever rated this illerate butt-donger's comment insightful needs a swift kick in the brown eye.

Re:OGG

[Anonymous Coward]

you'll notice it has been modded 'funny' now. +1 unintentional humour perhaps?

PIMP-120

[TubeSteak]

Did anyone else originally read the subject as the iRiver PIMP-120?

Re:PIMP-120

[Anonymous Coward]

Well with those chromed buttons, the name fits-- all that thing needs is some curb feelers and a little leopard upholstery somewhere.

Re:PIMP-120

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! Now with more bling bling!

Re:PIMP-120

[ajna]

I had that thought as well. Must be deliberate on the part of iRiver -- they've already struck out with their iDerivative company name, and the "pimp" factor might be just what this product needs...

Re:PIMP-120

[chiller2]

Did anyone else originally read the subject as the iRiver PIMP-120?

Well, it is a player ;)

Ok, ok I'll get my coat!

Re:PIMP-120

[billso]

MTV's new show: Pimp my PMP.

Re:PIMP-120

[uradu]

> Did anyone else originally read the subject as the iRiver PIMP-120?

Yep, I just took a gander at the slut on the screen and then my eyes immediately jumped to the PIMP label underneath.

Re:PIMP-120

[daemon_mf]

That's just what I need... A device that bitch slaps me everytime it gets turned on.......

Re:PIMP-120

[Anonymous Coward]

the first hardware MP3 player had PMP in the name

anyone remember the Rio PMP300?

the RIAA tried to get them banned

Re:PIMP-120

[emorphien]

Yeah, its unfortunate. The company didn't just start last year either, and they make some products which I'd say are technically superior. They just don't have the "name" that others do, yet. We can only hope they catch on.

Re:PIMP-120

[zootread]

That's just what I need... A device that bitch slaps me everytime it gets turned on......

Haha.. You're a ho.

I don't think it looks all that bad.

[scootr1]

I'm more concerned about the functionality and ease of use of it than the form.

Re:I don't think it looks all that bad.

[Moofie]

...which is the real reason the iPod is the benchmark.

Re:I don't think it looks all that bad.

[Anonymous Coward]

I also don't want it to end up looking too nice, otherwise it will make me a great target for a mugging if on the subway.

That's not Apple, you insensitive clod!

[gphinch]

Seriously though, looks pretty nice, it's no iPod but it has a lot more functionality anyway, if I was in the market I'd consider it.

iPod isn't that pretty

[charnov]

The iPod is very slick looking, but I have issues with the functionality. So far, the best I have seen in the more complex players is the Rio Karma...by a mile. Now, that is a slick looking player.

Re:iPod isn't that pretty

[Ankle]

Indeed the Karma is, I rushed out to buy one back in December and I couldn't be more happy with it. Long battery life, plays FLAC/Ogg Vorbis, 5 band parametric eq, Almost LCARS like interface, sexy and functional/efficient design. The only thing it needs now is the GUI for replaygain and some acessories such as a remote. Not to mention it was the cheapest of all the other players.

Re:iPod isn't that pretty

[lvdrproject]

... Are you kidding? Seriously, the Karma is the ugliest audio device i have ever seen in my life. It has absolutely fantastic features, but it's horrid-looking. :(

The last time i-River tried to do that...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple threatened to sue them. i-River had wanted to use a the rounded scroll navigation wheel with their ihp-120, Apple told them they would legal action to protect their intellectual property rights.

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[manWorkSucks]

definitely apple's idea too. nothing like a jog/shuttle dial on VCR.

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[shione]

agreed. and on portable devices, Akai has been doing it for ages.

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[Jardine]

definitely apple's idea too. nothing like a jog/shuttle dial on VCR.

My Sony Clie has one too. It's more for scrolling through text but it's definitely not unique to Apple.

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[epistemology]

Apple sues i-River, i-River leaves Quicktime off their new media player. Shove those intellectual property rights Apple.

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[ted_rust]

actually, it's not anything like any jog/shuttle dial i've ever used. most shuttle dials i have used only turn about 70-some degrees and you can't get any faster than whatever that speed is. the iPod, on the other hand, determines it's scrolling speed by both the speed at which you are running your finger around the *static* ring (another diff) ... but also how long you've been doing that. so, i can scroll through all 8,000 of my songs, in order ... in about 4 seconds. i've never seen a shuttle dial get anyone through a movie in anything close to that.

i guess i have to give some leeway. 1) apple is not perfect by any means ... and 2) it was apparently apple-bashing time at /. (yes, i do realize that they receive too much praise on /. at times as well.)

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[PsychoSid]

Steve Jobs cries into his wallet as the i-River dies the slow death

Re:The last time i-River tried to do that...

[manWorkSucks]

my VCR allows me to rotate it freely 360+ degrees, round and round and round (Sony SLV-778HF). the speed i spin it controls the playback speed (faster or slower than normal playback speed). and in terms of the scrolling through the movie in a matter of seconds i think the fact that you'd have to move the physical tape at about mach 2 to do that is the limiting factor there. and this is hardly an apple specific jab, it's a jab at IP rights and the USPTO which is the new everyone-on-slashdot-hates-em.

Not enough space

[Karma Star]

20GB is enough for me to fit my photo album, yet alone my MP3 collection...

Re:Not enough space

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you asshat. I just finished ripping my cd collection and it topped out at 52 GB.

Re:Not enough space

[kfg]

20GB is not* enough for me to fit my photo album

They don't expect you take all of your pr0n with you, just the stuff you can't live without while away from your desk.

KFG

*edited to mean what OP meant

Re:Not enough space

[DeltaSigma]

Your photo album is greater than 20GB?

Pardon the flame-bait, but: You must have a really crappy photo album.

Re:Not enough space

[OrangeSpyderMan]

I just got an iRiver iHP-140 with 40Gb of storage. I just finished ripping my CD collection, which compared to many of my friends is not a huge CD collection. I reached 15Gb or so even missing out those I don't think I'd listen to. If you're really doubting please let me have your email address and I'll send you a photo of my CDs. That only comes out to 2750 songs ripped to 192Kb/s oggs.. I figure that even someone with the kind of burger flipping job you have could quite easily fill up 20Gb legally and still be able to eat.

Re:Not enough space

[dustinbarbour]

Dude.. cut file size with VBR!!

Re:Not enough space

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there seem to be pr0n pre-installed on the beast... wonder what piece that blonde babe will remove next :P

Re:Not enough space

[Amarok.Org]

The fact is, the *majority* of people don't rip at 192K... they rip at whatever their software defaults to, which is usually 128K. Yes, there are a large number (though not *percentage*) of people who can hear the difference between 128K and 192K and care enough to rip at their preferred bitrate. The majority of people will be quite happy at 128K (or lower, I'd imagine).

I've got a decent sized (by normal standards, not geek standards) music collection of over 3500 songs of varying lengths/genres, most of which are ripped at 128k - and that's only 12gb. 40gb is overkill for the *average* consumer who wants to rip their 100-200 CDs.

Re:Not enough space

[ManxStef]

Actually, there seem to be pr0n pre-installed on the beast... wonder what piece that blonde babe will remove next :P

Funny you should say that; I thought the blonde model looked somewhat familiar from, uh, somewhere. A quick Google later:

Jenna Jameson ...
Will be appearing in a series of ads for iRiver later this summer, promoting the company's new handheld video player...

Heh, kudos to iRiver for realising where their main market lies! :)

Re:Not enough space

[emorphien]

My photo album, after some cleaning out and getting rid of things, occupies about 70 gigabytes. Granted when scanned film can be 130mb a file or bigger, and a Canon 1Ds makes 11mb RAW files and 36MB TIFFs, it fills quickly.

Scans from 4x5" film go to hundreds of megs easily.

Of course, I have no need to carry all that with me, if I do I put what I want on a laptop.

Design from the experts ? PMC-100

[Animaether]

"iRiver really should learn how to design nice looking hardware from the experts"

I don't think they need to. The PMC-100 looks really, really slick to me.
Random linky for image

And even this PMP-120 isn't all that ugly imho. likes/dislikes is always subjective, of course.

Who's the market?

[Skynyrd]

Just curious, as I have absolutely no need for a unit like this. I can't seem to wrap my head around it.

Who's going to buy them?

Re:Who's the market?

[Geek_3.3]

Oh, you know--people that want to watch their ripped movies and TV shows while jogging, biking, driving, or at work... ...

OK, maybe that's a bad idea.

Seriously, I'd guess it would be the same niche market that is buying the current batch DivX capable portable media centers. All 5 of them... THe only way I can think of them getting it any broader is to lower the price, and we all know that this ain't gonna cost less than $500 when it comes out.

Re:Who's the market?

[arkhan_jg]

Who's going to buy them?

People who travel a lot on planes, trains or coaches?

I know several people that use laptops for DVD playing on the move, but they're heavy and the battery life sucks. If you have the cash, this sounds like a good place to rip music and films for travel, holidays, anywhere you want media without having to carry a ton of stuff.

It's also got a preview setup for digital cameras, which means you could use it again as a laptop lite to dump your memory cards to and check quality in the field on a bigger screen than on the camera.

Hell, I can even see a use for it in place of a tablet PC. Carry around network diagrams or cabling routes for when out digging up the road or fault tracing in big cable runs. Bigger display than a PDA, lighter, cheaper and simpler than a tablet.

Re:Who's the market?

[Segway Ninja]

People who want something like an iPod, that can play movies.

Personally, I'd get it for taking movies around to my mates places, and playing MP3's inbetween. Oh, and for In-Car entertainment that I can take out of the car, and leave behind no trace of it.

Re:Who's the market?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that called a PDA?

Re:Who's the market?

[Skynyrd]

It's also got a preview setup for digital cameras, which means you could use it again as a laptop lite to dump your memory cards to and check quality in the field on a bigger screen than on the camera.

Cool - I could see using it on vacation for storing music, and dumping your camera's memory cards into.

I'm not sure about watching a movie on a tiny screen, but some people surf on a cell phone.

I assume they'll come out with a higher capacity drive soon. 20 doesn't seem like enough for movies, music and digital photos.

Re:Who's the market?

[really?]

I, for example, would like one for the times I have to take the train to work. Yeah I can read instead, and I usualy do, but, sometimes watching the "Daily Show" would feel so much better.

Re:Who's the market?

[arkhan_jg]

I agree, the drive size does seem a bit wimpy even for a music player, let alone something that does video.

The thing with a bigger screen is, you'd suck up more power and it'd be a heavier, you might as well get a laptop. Considering the compression ratio you'd have to do to get much to fit on the anemic hard drive, you wouldn't want it much larger cos of artifacts ;)

Thinking of that, it's not much smaller than the size of the screens in the back of seats in cars or planes. I can just see someone with an MPV giving a couple of these to the kids in the back rather than fitting an in-car system. Give em headphones, and you won't get fights over what they're going to watch or listen to...

Re:Who's the market?

[gnu-generation-one]

OK: Hard disk, linux, little LCD screen. Ideal for viewing photos. (insert pr0n joke here). Ideal as a digital picture-frame or similar.

So why support JPEG and not PNG or GIF or any other graphics formats? Isn't it just a case of loading imLib or ImageMagick or OpenIL or any of the other free tools that allows you to display loads of different formats?

Just seems like "low-hanging fruit" so far as file-format support goes...

Re:Who's the market?

[McMac]

Perverts who want porn on the move?

PiMP-120

[Anonymous Coward]

Yo yo yo, I be da 1337 coz I be flashin' da bling wit my PiMP-120. Man, I 0w|\|z0rz 411 j00 iP0D 14m3rz.

Yeah, it doesn't look all that cool but I bet it'll be an instant chick magnet. Those geekazoid wannabes with their ipods better watch out 'cause there'll definitely be a new hottie in town when I stroll around with my linux-powered devices. Awwww yeah.

I second that

[teko_teko]

I think iRiver design is pretty slick, and I'd prefer to use that over something that's already too mainstream or too widely used.

It's almost the same case as phpBB, I don't like to use it because almost every phpBB forums out there uses the same look and colors (the subsilver), and I'm tired of it :P.

Re:I second that

[jest3r]

Actually the iRiver PiMP 120 is pretty much a knockoff of the Archos av300.

Both are beastly and just big enough to be uncomfortable in your pocket.

Everyone has a different taste for looks ... but I think these things should be designed much slimmer so they can be truely portable. Anything over 1" thick seems a little bulky especially wioth that much surface area. My PDA has a big screen and is only .4 inches think.

Re:I second that

[Anonymous Coward]

...
Your PDA doesn't have a 20GB HD in it.

Functionality Looks

[LaserLyte]

Ugh...looks like it's designed for two-handed use...like some sort of gameboy-clone. I guess that makes it more suitable as a movie player or image viewer than an MP3 player. However, it looks a lot better (IMO) than the plasticy-toy type style of the iPod

Maybe iRiver could learn something about ergonomic design from Apple, but hey, at least it's got a replaceable battery. And it's sounds like going to be more "open" than an iPod. It's always nice to see "hackable" stuff (as the article writer noted), rather than consumer-orientated "appliances"

iRiver, invented by...

[Anonymous Coward]

P. Freely

iPod Appearance

[harlows_monkeys]

I find the white iPods ugly. White clashes with just about everything else I own.

Re:iPod Appearance

[Anonymous Coward]

Goth?

Re:iPod Appearance

[Bricklets]

White clashes with just about everything else I own.

Exactly. That was probably the point. When you see someone with white earphones, it's instant product recognition. Not to mention some extra free marketing. The same idea holds for iBooks and PowerBooks. Apple obviously wants to make sure that when someone uses an Apple product, anyone and everyone around that person knows it. And what was that old marketing slogan of theirs again?

Think Different?

Re:iPod Appearance

[gwoodrow]

I was unaware that black and white could clash with ANYTHING. You know, since they're tones - NOT colors and all. :)

Re:iPod Appearance

[Refrag]

PowerBooks aren't white. :) They're aluminum.

Re:iPod Appearance

[Captain DaFt]

Hear hear! Where's the black/red ipod with chrome buttons and trim? (IANAG 'I am not a goth' but I do enjoy the style!) };->

Audio?

[rylin]

Sweet!
Finally a color-display that supports audio!
No more silly headphones or speakers - now I just want my flying car and I'll be set for life

The world is not enought

[andrej73]

>MP3, ASF, Ogg Vorbis, JPEG, BMP, AVI, MP4, DivX 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, XviD, MPEG4 SP, Advanced SP and MPEG1
And quake3?

Re:The world is not enought

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not?
If this thing runs linux and is hackable why not turn it into a games machine too?

Re:The world is not enought

[Wraithlyn]

If it can handle MPEG4 playback and realtime audio compression, I bet it could handle Quake 1 at least. :)

Q3 might be a while... ;)

Um... yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

this is gonna sell really well! *cough*

Aren't they missing something?

[Supp0rtLinux]

What??? No DVD support? How many more devices are going to be made that do a little of everything but still don't do it all?

Re:Aren't they missing something?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like anyone can rip a cd to an ipod.
As long as the included software can rip dvds and transfer the files too, why not?

The name's great though...

[HiredMan]

You may think it's ugly but how can you hate the PiMP-120?

Don't be hatin'. That name pnwz!

Would Apple's version be iPimp?

=tkk

Re:The name's great though...

[mikael]

Do you mena the Apple Pimpin'? That comes with a fur covered main unit, gold plated controllers, and an exclusive pair of sunclasses. Optional accessories include a rottweiler and a gold plated rumble stick, for those all-weekend LAN parties.

Re:The name's great though...

[Anonymous Bullard]

Especially when that PMP actually stands for Personal Mutimedia Player.

Look carefully.

Apples

[FrostedWheat]

Apple have made some fairly good looking computers, but am I the only one to find the iPod rather ugly? I can't understand what people see in it.

Re:Apples

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just too white and sterile belongs in a hospital ...Yuk!!

iRiver Looks

[afra242]

I recently bought the 40Gb MP3 player from iRiver. To me, looks of an electronic device doesn't really matter. I just want the features. Simple as that. Compared to the iPod, the iRiver has superb battery life, more hard drive space for the buck, built in voice recorder, and even a AM/FM tuner. Plus it plays OGG and using Linux, I can index all my music files.

So what iRiver lacks in looks, they more than make up for it in features and cost compared to the iPod.

All I need is a scroll button and play/stop/fast/rewind buttons.

Re:iRiver Looks

[riptide_dot]

All I need is a scroll button and play/stop/fast/rewind buttons.

...and since they include the nice color display, a camera would be nice too.

Re:iRiver Looks

[mikelang]

2cm?! If only it would be a bit thinner...

Re:iRiver Looks

[harkabeeparolyn]

I recently bought the 40Gb MP3 player from iRiver. To me, looks of an electronic device doesn't really matter. I just want the features. Simple as that.

Lack of interest in aesthetics is why there will be, under no circumstances, sex for you at the end of the evening.

Re:iRiver Looks

[squarooticus]

I haven't actually compiled any statistics, but the number of posts on slashdot attacking the messenger in precisely this way (too ugly/lame/smelly/oblivious to get sex) is ridiculous. IMO, if you were actually out getting any, you wouldn't waste your time posting here.

Re:iRiver Looks

[mrchaotica]

Hey, I both have sex and post on Slashdot (although not at the same time), you insensitve clod!

Not for me

[Jahf]

Sorry, but I don't see a reason to carry around a portable video player unless I can see stuff from my TiVo and/or a DVD on it without having to take a few hours prep'ing/converting the files.

I realize that is a long way off, I'm not expecting it tomorrow. I'm just trying to figure out the mass market applications for this other than to have a box that does a ton of things (that it often isn't used for) while listening to my music.

Part of the reason I use a portable player (Neuros, not iPod) is to have a device that is small enough to be convenient (ok, the Neuros isn't as good an example of that as the iPod) -and- is fairly rugged. As in doesn't have a screen that I am worried about cracking or scratching.

Now if it plugged in to a DVD reader of some sort, even if over a network share to my PC, and allowed me to rip content to it for travel ... HELL yes, I would go for it. But not the current generations of machines.

Re:Not for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps that what having linux on it will allow you to do. It does seem like it will be slightly easier to "hack."

Questions

[orthogonal]

Ok, since my Archos broke down, I've been looking for a replacement.

So, some questions.

What kind of hard drive does it take, and how easy is it to replace the drive with a larger one. (Yeah, I know the size is 20GB -- what kind. I need 60GB, and I'd like it to fit the 60GB lap-top drive I bought for the Archos.

What's IRiver's reputation for quality? The Archos used decent parts, but they were put together shoddily. Thus the break down. (Yeah, I also replaced the drive with a 60GB, but I'm not at all the only one to have an Archos fall apart on me.)

That and Archos's crappy software and unwillingness to embrace a far better open source replacement, means I'll never buy from Archos again.

But reason I liked the Archos was that its crappy software could be replaced with the open source Rockbox. Just how hackable is iRiver's offering? Does the fact that it's linux based mean that iRiver intends to make the source available? If I can't hack it, I won't buy it: that's why I don't own an iPod or other MP3 players

Re:Questions

[Sango]

Most of the Iriver players (I own an H120) require no software required at all. They simply show up as a USB mass storage device. Drag and drop. If you want a database structure (which I never use.. filetree works best for me.) there are several options. Iriver has their own utility that scans the drive and creates the database. There are a couple user-made programs for this as well which you can find at the www.iriver.com user forums. The other option is Red Chair Software who makes a line of programs for interfacing with various MP3 players. Gets lots of good reviews.

Unfortunately there are some stupid limits to filename length in database and playlist modes (which users have been harping on for months) - but that dosen't concern me since I use the file tree.

All in all, I like my Iriver alot more than my old 2nd generation iPod.

Re:Questions

[orthogonal]

Most of the Iriver players (I own an H120) require no software required at all.

Actually, I'm interested in the software that runs the MP3 player; it's that which I want to be able to hack -- to deal with arbitrary filename lengths, for instance.

As far as downloading files to the player, I want to be able to treat the mp3 player as a removable usb drive -- so that any method of copying files works. The last thing I want is a proprietary interface: I want to be able to do a "cp -r mp3s/ /cygdrive/mp3player" from cygwin, or do drag-and-drop from MS Windows Explorer.

But your comment about the file tree intrigues me: do you mean that the iRiver database can be dispensed with, and one can simply play files (and hopefully directories?) in a standard hierarchical directory system?

Re:Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. This is what I do - I simply haven't got round to running their (Windows-only) indexing program yet. And I don't care - playing files by directory works fine for me. The iRiver shows up as a perfectly standard USB mass storage device, so cp, mv, drag'n'drop etc all work fine.

Any limitations on name length are (I suspect) a "feature" of the ID3 spec rather than iRiver's fault, but I have no evidence for that - as I say, I haven't installed the index yet.

Re:Questions

[orthogonal]

Any limitations on name length are (I suspect) a "feature" of the ID3 spec rather than iRiver's fault, but I have no evidence for that - as I say, I haven't installed the index yet.

I actually did a very small bit of coding on the Rockbox open source Archos firmware replacement, and as it happens, it was on the ID3 tags, so I know a little about this.

ID3 version 1 is limited to thirty (30) characters per tag field (Artists, Album, etc.), but since the iRiver is limited to -- what is it -- 56 characters, this doesn't seem to be the same limit. ID3 v1, also, I think specifies a total size of 120 characters or something, so why not just set aside the 120 needed?

ID3 version 2 tag filed length isn't limited.

(Although Rockbox last I worked on it, was limited to ~300 characters (300 less null terminators) over all tags. I was careful to make sure that reading more than 300 characters was handled by (silently) truncating -- Rockbox doesn't use any dynamic memory allocation, so static structures and fixed sized were all I had.).

Incidentally, MS Windows users looking for a really good and full-featured tagging program (with automatic abbreviation if you want it, various other forms of smart tagging, and regular expressions for converting tags), should look no farther than the free and open source mp3bookhelper.

Re:Questions

[ErroneousBee]

I had the Archos gmini220 for all of 12 hours before it locked solid and wouldnt respond. Crappy firmware indeed. Nice looking unit, though.

Re:Questions

[Mex]

God! The Rockbox software in its newest form just kicks ass. I find it so good, I'd buy another Archos recorder 20 if/when mine breaks down. I love being able to tweak just about anything in the player. Props to Rockbox!

Also, while mine does seem on its way out (it doesn't charge directly from the power cord, I have to replace batteries), I love the "rubber" it has in the corners. Clumsy geek, I've dropped it more than a few times, and I love watching it bounce :D

Re:Questions

[orthogonal]

Also, while mine does seem on its way out (it doesn't charge directly from the power cord, I have to replace batteries), I love the "rubber" [the Archos MP3 player] has in the corners.

That's because you've never opened the case. The rubber bumpers are probably a good idea, by themselves (although I've dropped my non-rubberized Zaurus many times, including dropping it a yard to hardwood floors).

But the rubber bumper rests directly on top of components (ic chips and what I think is a capacitor) on the printed circuit board. So pressure -- as from dropping but also notably from handling, as the bumpers are a natural place to grab when putting the Archos into or removing it from a a pocket -- pressure on the bumpers, rather than being transferred to the metal chassis, presses down delicate components and additional bends the pcb.

Good idea, bad implementation.

Re:Questions

[damiam]

If I can't hack it, I won't buy it: that's why I don't own an iPod or other MP3 players

While I can think of a number of other reasons not to buy an iPod, it can run Linux.

Re:Questions

[silence535]

What's IRiver's reputation for quality?

I have a iHP120 and I am very satisfied.

Hardware is very well done, buttons sit tight and work precicely, display is good, overall good quality feel to it (I have not taken it apart though).

Software simply works, navigation is ok. They are wasting some of the display space for icons which are not needed. The device froze only once when I used it sitting in the bathtub. Maybe conditions were too moist.

Battery holds up approx. as advertised.

Feature rich (radio, recording to mp3, plays ogg vorbis).

Accessoires almost complete, including microphone and a wrapper/bag for the player, lacking digital cable.

Sound quality way above my expectations. The earphones are really ok, no need to replace them.

Used it frequently for around three months now.
Happy customer me is.

-silence

Re:Questions

[CvD]

I have an iRiver IMP400 MP3CD player and I am very happy with it. Lots of features and it hasn't had any glitches yet. THe nice thing about iRiver products is that they are firmware upgradeable (most new ones are anyways), so users will request for features and file bugs and iRiver will listen and put out new firmware, which I think it pretty cool.

Anyways, I highly recommend iRiver. I'm not sure how hackable the new ones are, but I'm sure you could probably mess around with the firmware if you wanted to.

Cheers

Re:Questions

[kookbox]

I own an Archos Jukebox 6000, and I own an iRiver IHP-140.

There is some talk about iRiver firmware hacking in forums and whatnot (misticriver's are probably the best), and some talk among the Rockbox folks about porting their firmware to different devices, but as best I know it's still mostly talk.

The iRiver mounts as a removable drive, same as the Archos, and its database can be dispensed with (or, actually, never installed in the first place). I would strongly recommend getting rid of the iRiver's database, as it greatly increases the IHP's boot time.

Re:Questions

[Mex]

Well, that's no good! Still, I guess it's mostly a fault of the board design, not the rubbers themselves. It would probably be much worse without them...

Oh well. PiMP 120 you say?

michael, I just gotta emphasise this.

[James A. S. Joyce]

"Linux-based" does not, I'm afraid, imply the use of open source software/firmware. I enjoy open source software as much as the next Slashdot user, but given the past track record of hardware media players, it's not likely to be "open" or "hackable", much as you and I would enjoy this. Nonetheless, this does sound like a really cool product. Now all we need is a software media player that handles all those formats and actually works without segfaulting a la mplayer.

--
GNAA

Re:michael, I just gotta emphasise this.

[reverius]

i've never had mplayer segfault. were you using a stable release or an unstable/cvs build? what compile options did you use? did you submit a bug report?

follow through when something like this happens... help make open source software better for you, and for all of us! that's kinda the point. :)

Proof positive, slash doters have no style

[The Lost Supertone]

Ahh a bunch of geeks saying what looks good and what doesn't. OK how many of you wear all black more than once a week? OK you don't get to talk from now on. How many of you don't think blue can be worn with orange? OK you also can't talk now. OK now, does anyone else not like the look of the iPod? OK good... :) By the way, I was playing with an iPod at best buy the other day... it's nice, I think I want a mini, but it's nice.

I think we all know what this is for

[chaotixx]

Judging from the demo pictures on the unit (from the article link), it looks like iRiver is thinking what I'm thinking.

Pr0n to go!

Re:I think we all know what this is for

[The Lost Supertone]

No kidding, that's what I thought when I first looked at it... don't things like this normally have movie clips, or pictures of kids playing with dogs? Not what looks to be an excerpt of soft-core porn. "For all you who want to get your jollies at the back of the bus, or in the washroom at work, iRiver has you covered!"

Re:I think we all know what this is for

[Anonymous Coward]

me too, that's why I don't like the twohanded controls...

Re:I think we all know what this is for

[Nixoloco]

Judging from the demo pictures on the unit (from the article link), it looks like iRiver is thinking what I'm thinking.

Pr0n to go!

If that was the case I think all the buttons would be on one side.

Re:I think we all know what this is for

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the new camera cell phones had that angle covered?

Re:I think we all know what this is for

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed they are ;)

audible.com

[*LuckySmurf*]

I have a few friends with mp3 players, and most of them have an iRiver. They like their players a lot, and I'm impressed with the feature list. One thing prevents me from getting one, though. I subscribe to audible.com, and iRiver doesn't have an arrangement to support their DRM. Are there other audible subscribers out there who feel upset about the limitations in what devices they are able to use to play the books they buy? Does anyone know what it takes to get audible support in a new device? Audible and iRiver haven't been too forthcoming with information in response to my queries.

Re:audible.com

[aka-ed]

The "limitations" are not in the players, they are in DRM. Time will prove that nobody ever pays for DRM-protected content once. Besides, there's a growing amount of legit free spoken word in mp3.

Re:audible.com

[Hatta]

Vote with your wallet man. If they won't make it easy for you to listen, then give your money to someone who will. I certainly wouldn't buy music that was deliberately crippled.

take a closer look

[Koragnar]

i just bought an iRiver 12o a few days ago and it kicks some arse. I mean its $100 less than the 20gb ipod, has voice recording, has radio, you can 'steal' songs from the radio and freinds cd players with a litle cord, and you dont have to touch anything made by the "people" at mac. plus i like the black sleeknes, its so...sleek lol. as soon as i save up the cash im gonna prolly buy one of these too. its not like its orange and pink. i think its zexy

Pictures for comparing

[TubeSteak]

Here's some direct links for those people too lazy to RTFA

iPod vs. iRiver PMP-120
Here's an older article (May25) about the iRiver and here's their accompanying picture. I wonder what that is around her neck?

Re:Pictures for comparing

[DietFluffy]

The thing around her neck is an iRiver mp3 player

Re:Pictures for comparing

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing around her neck is one of the small flash memory MP3 players from iRiver:

http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/flash.aspx

Re:Pictures for comparing

[Rocinante]

And a picture of the iHP-120, a more direct competitor to the iPod (and, IMHO, substantially better than the iPod).

Re:Pictures for comparing

[uradu]

> I wonder what that is around her neck?

What neck? Oh!

Second that

[ifwm]

The things not ugly, but that god damned ipod min in fuschia/purple/pink/mauve whatever that color is is horrible.

When I buy a media player I care about 3 things

1. Price
2. Storage space
3. Size (smaller=better)

Leave the highly subjective judgements about beauty (which is after all in the eye of the beholder) out of your review.

Re:Second that

[Anonymous Coward]

Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but I still think most folks would find a difference between this and this.

Re:Second that

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't care about battery life?

Samba...

[guycouch]

It would be great if along with USB2, they'd equip it with an ethernet port and include samba on this beast.... delicious.

Re:Samba...

[unclefungus]

maybe use TCP/IP over USB? Windows could do it!

If people didn't care about "looks"

[gotr00t]

Yes, the iPod looks pretty decent, but who cares?

Though I think that comparing things to the iPod is a bit overdone as well, I would'nt go as far as to say that nobody cares about looks either. If nobody really cared about looks, then why is it that the iPod is popular? As "crazy" as this sounds, for many people, features and price are not the paramount issues when selecting which product to buy.

This is an excellent device in terms of features, I agree, but on a personal note I would have to agree with the poster of the article and say that IMO, its looks could use some improvement. The control panels on both sides with the screen sandwiched in-between looks somewhat awkward.

Re:If people didn't care about "looks"

[Wraithlyn]

"The control panels on both sides with the screen sandwiched in-between looks somewhat awkward."

Awkward? Why? The sides are where your hands go when you hold it, much like a game controller.

Actually I'm hoping this turns into a great game platform.. it has the controls and the horsepower for it. And 320x240 resolution is PERFECT for porting console emulators and old 256 colour VGA games. :D

Re:If people didn't care about "looks"

[clubin]

"The control panels on both sides with the screen sandwiched in-between looks somewhat awkward."
Have you seriously never played a Sega GameGear? I think the layout makes perfect sense.

In anycase, the only reason I decided to pop in and read the comments on this particular article is because I suspected the OP was alone in his view. I think it looks nice and furthermore couldn't believe the poster generalized his "ugly" perception to iRiver in general as iRiver makes plenty of cool looking gadgets, including their "H" line of iPod clones.

Looks like they learned their lesson....

[AetherBurner]

I was looking at getting the iHP-120 until I found out that iRiver's brains was missing the exact same piece that Apple brains were missing with their IPod - non user-replacable battery. A replacable battery now. That is a good thing but it probably will some propriatory design that will cost 60% of the player new. I guess I will wait this one out again and see how bad they price the replacement and decide from there.

Compared to FlashTrax

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the iRiver is fairly stylish compared to SmartDisk's similar (and also Linux based) FlashTrax device. The Flashtrax has more GB, an iR remote and can download from flash cards, but the interface really needs work and the battery life is pretty poor (especially on the 80GB model).

Dasher

[DarkVein]

If they integrated Dasher for an input method (and that control pad is as analog as it looks), this could be hacked into a very respectable PDA. Hell, you could have a decent CLI if you could use Dasher there.

I'd rather iRiver didn't even attempt to make a PDA out of it though. Every PDA/media-player combo attempt I've seen, even the iPaq and half-hearted attempts of the Sony Clie, have been horrible horrible miscarriages. I'd rather they pick up the PDA option later if some people develop something nice after market.

However, Dasher would still be great for inputting metadata.

Re:OGG - From the /. blurb no less!

[MrEd]

...through its colour screen can support MP3, ASF, Ogg Vorbis...

So go buy one! Or go buy the iMP-250, 350, 550, etc. etc. which all support Ogg Vorbis (even the old iMP-250 aka Rio Volt 2) through firmware updates...

Innodesign

[morcheeba]

Innodesign korea does the design of most of iRiver's products (warning: Flash site). They also do some samsung products, but the bulk of the work looks like outside styling and not actual operation design. One exception is a laptop designed for presenting: the main screen swivels around to point to the audience, while a smaller screen is on the backside for the presenter.

Contrast this with frogdesign, which seems more innovative. (or maybe their clients give them a longer leash)

Re:Innodesign

[Misao]

Ah, so they're who we have to blame for that :)

-misao

Re:Innodesign

[mrchaotica]

Considering we're talking about design compared to the iPod, this might be a better example : )

Re:Innodesign

[morcheeba]

You're right... I thought I wove Apple into that paragraph, but not. I loved their //c design with a built-in handle.

2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

1) Why do people seem to think that GNU/Linux is superior for embedded media devices than *BSD? This is an honest question because it seems that a company would rather be subject to BSD licensing than GPL so there must be some other reason

2) Couldn't they come up with a better sounding acronym than PMP reads like PiMP

No I am not trolling I really do want to know why GNU/Linux is preferable to *BSD for these kinds of devices.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is better suited to multimedia apps than the 3 BSDs, and it supports a lot of embedded hardware. NetBSD supports a lot of embedded hardware, too, but isn't very well suited to much of anything. Plus, Linux is just fucking easier to develop embedded systems with.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

Umm I am sorry would you like to back up your statements with any kind of proof or articles? because to the best of my knowledge they are similarly easy to develop on and the BSDs support a heck of a lot more embedded systems .. but if that was the argument why not use QNX?

Seriously is there anyone who can point me in the right direction with this? I know I was talking to a friend of mine last night and we were discussing design philosophies for programming and we finally came down to the point of he writes games and I write server applications. Is there some fundamental underlying portion of GNU/Linux that makes it more responsive in media apps that wouldnt account for picking a different proc or hardware decoding?

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm I am sorry would you like to back up your statements with any kind of proof or articles?

Your question was "Why do people seem to think that GNU/Linux is superior for embedded media devices than *BSD?" I'm a person, I think Linux is better suited to multimedia than the BSDs because of:

• ALSA
• the Linux framebuffer
• all of the work going into low-latency/real-time/pre-emptive Linux systems
• the overwhelming number of multimedia-type drivers compared to the BSDs
• and my own personal experience developing embedded Linux systems and working on Linux audio software

What kind of proof do you want? Latency test results? The number of Linux-based embedded multimedia systems compared to BSD?

Because to the best of my knowledge they are similarly easy to develop on and the BSDs support a heck of a lot more embedded systems ..

I know that NetBSD supports more embedded systems, but practically no work has gone into NetBSD to make it even remotely attractive to multimedia software developers. There are no good audio/video/framebuffer APIs for it outside of OSS. Yeah, it's a great portable OS, but that's about it. They might be "similarly easy to develop on," but Linux has a lot of people working on things that make it much more robust than the alternatives.

but if that was the argument why not use QNX?

I thought we were talking about Linux versus BSD for multimedia apps? Anyway: because QNX is not free in any sense.

Is there some fundamental underlying portion of GNU/Linux that makes it more responsive in media apps that wouldnt account for picking a different proc or hardware decoding?

I don't think it's any one "portion" of Linux, but more like the work that's constantly going into the kernel to make it more responsive in media/desktop/whatever apps. I don't know of any such work being put into NetBSD.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Some thoughts as to why:

Vendor support - Many more companies offering tools and support for Linux than for any of the BSDs. Even Wind River is on board.

Developer mind share / trendiness - Linux is hot, it is in the minds of both the developers and the decision makers.

Portability - While NetBSD matches or beats Linux's portability, it has the lowest user numbers of the 3 free BSDs. When it comes to supporting the variety of processors used in embedded systems, Linux can't be beat.

BSD had a chance to be the free Unix, but it missed the boat and now Linux has enough traction that more and more vendors will add support, and it's popularity will continue to grow and outpace that of the BSDs.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

See now thats a reasonable response the intial response was well lacking ....

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

See I am thinking it is your second point more than anything else. After all if you are building your own chipsets and such driver writing should not be an issue.

As a note *BSD are Uxices(sp) where Linux is well GNU/Linux and is a re implementation of a reimplementation of Unix .. or so goes my history of OSs not that that has any bearing whatsoever on your statement.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[damiam]

Not an expert here by any means, but it's my impression that the Linux kernel has had a lot more work put into embedded use than any of the BSDs.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[hearingaid]

Yes, it does.

Also, there are more codecs available in Linux-friendly form than on *BSD. I think these two factors are the reason why.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

because it seems that a company would rather be subject to BSD licensing than GPL so there must be some other reason

If they pick an architecture already supported by Linux they don't have to modify the kernel, it's just a platform for their own software that can still be as proprietary as ever. In that case, basically only restriction GPL puts on them is to keep vanilla kernel somewhere and give it if anyone asks, should not be too much of a trouble for anyone.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[0x0d0a]

Why do people seem to think that GNU/Linux is superior for embedded media devices than *BSD? This is an honest question because it seems that a company would rather be subject to BSD licensing than GPL so there must be some other reason

I doubt that GNU/Linux is being used -- probably Linux with a replacement mini libc.

1) Linux has been ported to MMUless systems. This is, like, important for devices without MMUs. I do not believe that any of the BSDs can run without an MMU.

2) Just a guess -- BSD kernels may use more memory than the Linux kernel, which would also be important.

3) Another guess -- I have no idea what the state of real-time scheduling is on BSD, nor what maximum scheduling latency is. Either could be a cause.

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Anonymous Coward]

Hungus (585181) lied:

AC's will no be responded to.

Then how do you explain the above post?

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

Because I have view sigs trurned off and forgot that was in there. Though as a general rule it is true if gramatically incorrect. Does it offend you that by grace I respond to more than I should?

Re:2 Quick Comments/Questions

[Hungus]

Thanks for the post,

3) BSDRTS and LinuxRTS are almost identical in every way.
2) BSD actually uses less mem and is smaller especially picoBSD
1) You are absolutely right about the MMU I did not realise that Linux had been ported to non MMU systems (though I should have if I had really thought about it from that side.

Your comment lead me to take a look see and find this comparison between BSD and RTOSs and so I think you again.

Design from the 1980's

[TubeSteak]

Not that i wouldn't take one, but the PMC-100 honestly looks like something from an old 80's movie. This isn't to say the design is bad, it just looked vintage to me.

Haha the PIMP-120

[bl8n8r]

That's a funny name! pimp my playa'
I could give a fuck if you think it's "really,really ugly". People buy ipods now simply because it's socially sexy to do so. The fact is, this company is breaking ground with an embedded linux solution for the masses that supports OGG and MP3 - something everyone up here has been pissing and moaning for, ever since the Neuros came out. I say good for them. iRiver is cool for taking this step. We need more companies to do the same.

Re:Haha the PIMP-120

[Anonymous Coward]

why use ogg vorbis?

PiMPed Out

[aka-ed]

Of course it's ugly...it looks like one of those late-90s-era dedicated email devices, what did they call em? Net appliance, yeh! A lot of burned early adopters might prefer a different look.

Duh...

[Azureflare]

Where's the DVD gonna go? Remember this is HD based...

I think they expect you to rip your dvds. If you rip the VOBs, it (should) play those just fine. I'm not sure what codec VOBs use. However, CSS shouldn't be an issue since the CSS will already be decoded.

Even if it doesn't you can always encode in a smaller file format that it does support.

I definately agree!

[cbreaker]

It doesn't look bad at all. It's pretty minimal - Screen, some buttons on the sides.

I'm not sure where all these folks are coming from about the iPods. I have a Sony Minidisc player that is extremely small and very easy to use with only a few buttons. I know it's only good for Minidiscs, but the design is quite on the money. I guess my point is that Apple didn't really do anything special if you ask me, and there's plenty of setups and looks that are great even if they don't have the name "iPod" on them.

I'm bored with Apple's cutsie names for everything, too.

Re:I definately agree!

[beerits]

I'm bored with Apple's cutsie names for everything, too.

Then you probably shouldn't buy a player from iRiver.

Function vs Looks

[SillySnake]

The thing looks nice.. A million other people have already said that. But from looking at it, it seems very laking in the ease of use department.. At least from the stand point of a music player..

If I'm listening to music, I really don't want to have to look down to change the song.. I want it to be done very easily and only by touch.. When you put buttons on both sides and make the device take two hands to hold/use, you really make it harder to use.

Take for instance the old Sharp camcorders that had the screen on the back.. Sure they looked nice, had a big, nice LCD.. But they took two hands to use, and were hard to hold with just one hand.. Very few people bought a second one if they wanted to replace/upgrade their first, for that very reason.

Of course, for watching movies and that sorta thing, it shouldn't be a problem.. So unless they've got a wonderful interface that really is easy to use just by touch, the thing won't sell well.. Not to mention the whole price issue..

Re:Function vs Looks

[Anonymous Coward]

Using two hands to hold the camcorder kept the pic steady without the need to employ complicated stabilization tricks, which was the whole idea behind why you have to use two hands to hold the sharp camcorders.

and contrary to what you say those sharp camcorders were wquite popular in fact sharp still makes them today for digital 8.

There's nothing wrong with iRiver products

[gorbachev]

I own one of their cd based mp3 players, and that thing is the best portable cd player I've ever used. Its user friendliness, firmware updates and general quality of construction is unbeatable.

The only problem with the unit in question here, apparently, is that it doesn't look like an iPod. Duh.

Proletariat of the world, unite to kill conformity

Re:There's nothing wrong with iRiver products

[Atrophic]

I also have one of iRiver's products (the Slim-X 350) (http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iMP-350.asp x) and I cannot complain. I am planning on upgrading to their upcoming H340 player (http://nordic.iriver.se/products.php?p=19) as soon as it is released into the Asian market. I love this company.

Re:There's nothing wrong with iRiver products

[Mr_Silver]

I own one of their cd based mp3 players, and that thing is the best portable cd player I've ever used. Its user friendliness, firmware updates and general quality of construction is unbeatable.

So do I (imp-400 in silver) and it looks really good (although sometimes a little bit too much like a toilet seat). However, it's not as user friendly as it could be because the controls are somewhat complicated.

The only problem with the unit in question here, apparently, is that it doesn't look like an iPod. Duh.

I didn't say that. Duh.

What I actually said it looks really really ugly and, unsurprisingly, I still stand by my opinion.

I never said that the iPod is the panacea of design, but I just feel that iRiver could have put slightly more effort into the look of the thing, especially when they're asking people to pony up a lot of money for something which they will carry around when them all the time.

The simple fact is that as soon as you start marketing products that people are going to wear on themselves on a daily basis, you have to accept that how something looks becomes significant.

The iRiver PMP-120 is SEXY!

[radd0]

Damn, that think is more pimperish than a stick of licorice.

Re:The iRiver PMP-120 is SEXY!

[radd0]

Err -- "thing", too.

can it do games too?

[chipace]

I didn't see any mention about gaming potential. Sony should include these features with their handheld playstation. I would buy one tomorrow if they did.

Re:can it do games too?

[Methuseus]

Can I sell you one tomorrow? I can't promise to deliver the product right away.... but I could sell it to you tomorrow if you give me the money tomorrow.

mplayer is fine

[Anonymous Coward]

James A * Joyce, the parent of your post, is a known troll. He uses many names beginning with James and ending with Joyce. Once he's posted on Slashdot enough, he's going to cut and paste all his comments into a book and call it Finnegan's Wake II.

Re:mplayer is fine

[kunudo]

He's just saving up karma so that he can withstand moderation for 3 sec's longer when he posts some GNAA stuff in the next story. Let him waste his time.

DvD how?

[TubeSteak]

How exactly do you propose DVD support? You mean MPEG-2 &/or VOB support? Why would you want to watch VOBs straight off the HD? It is a shame they don't support MPEG-2, but even then, i highly doubt you'd notice the better resolution on such a tiny screen.

Now if you want to use the TV-Out then I could understand, other than that... why DVD support?

Ever noticed...

[mboverload]

That if you say it, its the Pimp-120?

They should of named it the PMP-6969. Then I would of had a good joke =)

nice looking hardware from apple?

[unclefungus]

I hate to say this but, "the experts" can't make anything decent looking to save their life. Every thing they make is bulbuos and gaudy. The hardware and software. granted they perfrom well, but when it comes to how it looks, I would not want one on my desk. I'll keep my square, black rackmount case any day.

Not bad, but...

[Justin205]

I'm going to be using my nice little Sharp Zaurus for movies (once I can actually get them to encode to fit on my little 256 CF card...), and my iPod for music. I use a PowerBook for my main computer, and a Linux desktop for my more... Well, my more developmental system.

And the iPod works 100% well with the PowerBook, the 20GB is more storage than I'll ever use, and the quality of the iPod (not just the look) is wonderful.

So I'll pass on this thing...

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder

[nurb432]

Or something like that..

Who cares what the CASE looks like? its functionality/features and appearance of the SCREEN ( oh, and quality of the sound too.. ) that really matters..

1/2 the time people cover them up with slipcase anyway..

*Munch munch*

[Lord Graga]

Well, that's cool, but can we install windows on it?

Larger screen please, think etch-a-sketch size.

[OneInEveryCrowd]

As soon as I see a player like this with a screen about the size and quality of the screen on a Sony TR2A laptop (with the xbrite screen) I'll go out and buy it. If I haven't bought the Sony first tho...

Really, I can't see myself enjoying anime on a matchbook sized screen.

Re:Larger screen please, think etch-a-sketch size.

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I can't see myself enjoying anime at all.

Re:Larger screen please, think etch-a-sketch size.

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Really, I can't see myself enjoying anime on a matchbook sized screen

Really? I can't see myself enjoying anime.

Great News!

[yuoidsfg]

This is something that Independent Researchers of the Canadian Stock Market should take note of.

Maybe I've been reading too much Fark.com

[Atario]

Because the first thing I though upon reading the summary was:

"Shoulda said 'Ugly-ass Media Player Born'."

Before, of course, Reading TFA.

Not 20GB

[Gonoff]

The first flaw I see is that it is only 19GB at best. At the bottom, in the small print, there is that well known fraud "**1MB equals 1,000,000 bytes". That is incorrect. Whether you are running Linux or Windows (I don't have a Mac) 1 GB is 2^10 MB or 1048576.

It would be like inventing a 'metric pint' and rounding it down to the nearest hundred ml.

Re:Not 20GB

[Trepidity]

Well, in some sense yes, but in another sense no. The problem is it's not entirely like inventing a "metric pint", because that would be redefining the pint after the fact. In this case, computing took already-defined metric prefixes: k, M, G, T, etc. But these are already defined as a thousand, million, billion, and trillion! The M prefix has meant 1,000,000 for quite a while now; the same with k (1,000); and so on. A km has been 1,000 m since quite a bit before the invention of computers.

The use of kilobyte for 1,024 was just sort of sloppy notation: it was close enough to 1,000 that it was convenient to reuse the k that they already knew from the metric system. Then apparently they decided to stick with metric prefixes when the megabyte came along, only with new definitions for each of them. And now they're getting increasingly far from the actual values, so it's turning out to have been a bad idea.

To rectify the situation, someone-or-other came up with mebibyte as the binary form, with megabyte retaining its standard definition in keeping with a megaton or a megawatt. But these haven't really caught on, although I do occasionally see them in some Linux programs (kiB, MiB, etc.).

Re:Not 20GB

[Mr. Daemon]

you must check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibi and then talk whatever BS you want...

Get your numbers right before buying any HD or posting here

Re:Not 20GB

[gnu-generation-one]

"The use of kilobyte for 1,024 was just sort of sloppy notation"

Interesting theory.

You say that MB=10^6 is okay because MB=2^20 was never used. But MB=2^20 has always been the standard for computers, so changing it is just confusing because then the same symbol has 2 different meanings, with no easy way of telling which it refers to.

If you're going to invent a symbol for 10^6 bytes, at least choose a name (MidiByte, the d being for "decimal"?) that doesn't clash with a widely-used and confusingly simular unit of measurement.

(And anybody who whines about SI can grep the SI standard for "byte")

Re:Not 20GB

[Anonymous Coward]

That should be:

If you're going to invent a symbol for 2^20 bytes at least choose a name that doesn't clash with a widely-used and confusingly similar unit of measurement.

Computers have been there for much shorter time than those prefixes have been in use. Computers are the ones that needed to invent new symbols, this much should be clear to anyone. Just because it wasn't done in time is not a reason to delay switching to something suitable.

I'm betting the moron who originally chose to use "k" for 2^10 was American, no other would be stupid enough to dilute well-known names with this kind of garbage.

Re:Not 20GB

[dyefade]

to be fair, this happens all the time in marketing. at least iRiver admitted to it on the same page.

Re:Not 20GB

[Anonymous Coward]

perl -e "print 'A'x(1000000);">one_meg.txt

ls -lh one_meg.txt
-rw-r--r-- . ... ... 977K ... one_meg.txt

Re:Not 20GB

[Anonymous Coward]

although I do occasionally see them in some Linux programs (kiB, MiB, etc.).

Woah, you mean you actually have seen an MiB and he didn't use that little flashy thing on you? I wouldn't go publisizing that were I you...

- I am Sparticus!

Waste of everyone's time

[Quo_R]

Am I the only one who thinks the "experts"-link is pretty pointless? I had to let my mouse hover over it for like 1.5 seconds to see the meaning or joke or whatever it is..

Couple points...

[evilviper]

I have a few points.

1. I would like to see it include VP3 and Theora support... Theora has now ( FINALLY ) reached bitstream freeze, so including it would be safe. It wouldn't hurt to have VP6 support as well, but I'd be happy with just VP3/Theora...

2. Nothing is wrong with the design, despite what some may say.

3. The screen needs to be bigger (preferably 16:9 widescreen, since everything is going that way), and the battery-life needs to be increased. If they don't do that, it had better be less than $400, or everyone would just be better off buying a extra Notebook...

Re:Couple points...

[abischof]

For those who didn't know what Theora was either:

Theora is Xiph.Org's first publicly released video codec, intended for use within the Ogg's project's Ogg multimedia streaming system.

Re:Couple points...

[Wraithlyn]

I have a GP32 with exactly the same screen... 3.5", 320x240, and it is PERFECT.

3.5" is nice and big, but JUST small enough so you can still fit the unit into a breast pocket. Widescreen movies look just fine on it. (If I wanted a bigger movie watching unit, I'd buy one of those portable DVD players)

320x240 is perfect because that's essentially TV resolution (and 256 colour VGA), so it will work great with stuff ported over meant for TV or VGA output. (Imagine an SNES emulator on this thing, or Doom? :))

Anyway my point is, this isn't a dedicated movie player, it's a pocket-sized multipurpose entertainment system. From my experience with my GP32, I would say a 3.5" 320x240 screen is ideal for that.

(BTW, my GP32 can play MP3/Ogg, DivX/XviD, Doom and many other PC ports, plus a plethora of emulators from Atari and C64 through SNES, TG16, and Genesis. And all for $150. You might want to check em out. :D Biggest difference: GP32 has no hard drive, only 128MB SMCs :P)

Re:Couple points...

[MojoStan]

I'd also like to add that a 4:3 aspect ratio is probably much better than 16:9 for viewing photos. I think the photo viewing/storing capabilities of this device are underemphasized.

The feature that jumped out at me was "USB On the Go to attach to digital cameras." This seems like a great digital camera accessory for portable photo storage and viewing/previewing.

I'm still not convinced that viewing battery-sucking video on a 3.5" screen will be all that great (I admit I haven't tried it yet). It might be okay for previewing video, but for actually watching video I find more value in the video-out connections for watching on an external screen.

Re:Couple points...

[Wraithlyn]

Yes, the USB host sounds awesome. Hopefully they'll be some editing software for it eventually too. Imagine a Photoshop Light on this thing for quick contrast, sharpening, etc?

On my GP32, even with the backlight on it can easily play a full movie on a pair of AAs. If you turn the backlight off the battery time lasts 3-4 times longer.

Re:Couple points...

[Anonymous Coward]

How about some VR googles insead of a screen? Not the 3D kind, just something that puts a fairly high-res LCD in front of your eyes in such a way that the apparent size is like a big screen theater. Great for long plane trips or working out on a treadmill/exercise bike.

Re:Couple points...

[0x0d0a]

I dunno about Theora.

Vorbis is a really, really good codec. It competes well against the other audio codecs out there.

Theora is based on a video codec that isn't the latest and greatest. I haven't tried Theora, but I'm not sure whether it can top MPEG4 from a quality perspective.

I mean, it's nice to be unencumbered, but it's also nice to have top-notch video quality.

Re:Couple points...

[evilviper]

4:3 aspect ratio is probably much better than 16:9 for viewing photos

Doubtful.

Both portrait and landscape photos would look just fine (you'll have to rotate the screen 90 degrees though...).

Re:Couple points...

[evilviper]

320x240 is perfect because that's essentially TV resolution

No, TV resolution is 720x480, well, it would be more accurate to say it's 704x480, since some of the 720 gets cut-off.

320x240 isn't even half TV res... VCD/VHS res is even 352x240. SVCD res is 480x480, and DVDs are full 720x480...

That's NTSC of course...

Re:Couple points...

[evilviper]

I haven't tried Theora

Then why did you even open your mouth?

If you have absolutely no knowledge about a subject, keep your gross assumptions to yourself.

Re:Couple points...

[evilviper]

I wouldn't use them... It's much easier to just turn your head to look around, than it is to remove the goggles...

That will be real nice when something comes flying at you, too... You could see it in your peripheral vision if you were viewing a screen, but instead the goggles block your view.

Not to mention that goggles tend to make people dizzy and disoriented, no doubt this would be worse on a plane or train...

Re:Couple points...

[0x0d0a]

I spoke up because I am aware of two facts.

1) VP3 was not beating MPEG4 in usage before they donated it.

2) The only video comparison I've seen done with Theora, which compared against a number of MPEG4 implementations, had Theora putting out significantly worse video. The reason I didn't want to mention this is that in the past, significant quality improvements have been made in a relatively short period of time with Vorbis and MP3 compression by tweaking the compressor without changing the format.

My intent was not to argue that Theora was worse, which is why I clearly pointed out that I hadn't used it. It was to assist people in avoiding irrationally tying the claims that "Vorbis is good" and "Theora is good" together, since some people are likely to confuse them.

If you feel that you are more qualified than I to make statements regarding Theora's relative quality, I'm sure that other Slashdotters would love to benefit from your knowledge -- please post away.

Re:Couple points...

[evilviper]

1) VP3 was not beating MPEG4 in usage before they donated it.

Since when did popularity dictate how good a codec is?

Fact is, VP3 is as good as MPEG4 in quality at the same bitrate, despite what many heard from Doom9's brain-dead "codec comparison" farce...

2) The only video comparison I've seen done with Theora, which compared against a number of MPEG4 implementations, had Theora putting out significantly worse video.

I don't see how any comparison can be done, considering that Theora is still in alpha stage, and up until very recently was not even in bitstream freeze. Not only is the codec not at it's best, but the programs to encode and playback Theora are currently mediocre, and were quite terrible not long ago (ie. Alpha-1).

Note: The mediocre programs should not be a problem for integrating Theora support in hardware and programs, because they only use the libraries, not the Unix userland playback program.

If you feel that you are more qualified than I to make statements regarding Theora's relative quality,

Considering your sources, anyone who has even watched a single Theora/VP3 video is more qualified.

At this stage, I can only really say that MPEG-4 and Theora are rather close in terms of quality at similar bitrates. Little else can be said until Theora's tools get more mature, so they can match the commonly-used features of MPEG-4 encoders.

Re:Couple points...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should note that most tvs do not have the full-spec resolution.

I assume that larger tvs would have better resolution, but for 20 inches and smaller, 320x240 seems like a good estimate.

Pity linux distros can't play the same formats...

[mfearby]

... out of the box, that is! If there was a Linux distro that could play - perfectly and without random pixels everywhere - XviD, DivX 3, 4, and 5, MPEG, ASF, etc, then that would be worth installing.

And before you say "you can compile that support in yourself", let me say to you: get lost! I'm sick to death of having to locate some retard's package of some frigging codec just to watch a movie in sub-standard quality than I can get with Windows Media Player (on my dual boot machine).

Oh, and it sure would be nice if those retarded GUI designers for things like Noatun, Video LAN, and the rest, could put the control buttons in the same bloody window as the video itself. I mean, how bloody difficult could it be? But NOOOO, I have to go ALT-TAB'ing to find that other window.

And I'm sick of seeing the endless stream of articles asking "Is Linux ready for prime time?". The answer is a definite no!

iRiver

[myndzi]

I used to own (one of?) the first cd/mp3 players ever; I think it was later named the Tavura. Forget who it was by. I actually had to change the batteries once about halfway through each mp3 CD, so I'd always have 2 pair charging and one in the device.

Later I bought the AVC Soul (same thing as the Rio Volt), both of which were made by ... you guessed it ... iRiver. I wore my Soul into the ground, and immediately bought a top-of-the-line iRiver player (the imp-550). I love the thing.

iRiver has had a history of putting out decently priced hardware that _does_ look good, is functional, is upgradable, and has pretty much anything you could ask for. (Though I'm still waiting for more than one song dynamic playlists(?)).

Their players have nice battery life too (hell, the 550 shipped with a pair of 1450 mAh prismatic-type batteries; I couldn't even FIND ratings that high for the same battery type online...)

If I needed this kind of a device, iRiver would definitely be my first pick to buy from.

That aside, I'm kind of curious -- does anyone have any idea why nobody has put out a media player with open source upgradable firmware yet? It seems to me that if they put the right hardware in the thing it'd be a huge attraction both to geeks and non-geeks (who would benefit from the doubtless interesting firmwares put out by OS people). And the company wouldn't have to put much money into developing the firmware itself! I don't see what the deal is...

Oops!

[Gonoff]

I meant to say 1 MB is 2^10 Bytes.

No WMV support? Yeah right.

[sploo22]

the PMP-120 offers support for the vast majority of popular audio and video formats, except for Microsoft's Windows Media Video (WMV). This, however, will be supported in the company's Windows CE powered PMC-100, to be introduced later this year.

Hah. It runs Linux, you say? Let's see...

emerge win32codecs
emerge mplayer

Now it plays WMV. :)

Umm...

[xeon4life]

I don't know what the author is talking about. I kind of like the design.

Isn't beauty in the eye of the beholder?

Seriously though, aesthetic quality shouldn't be a factor in judging how well a product pleases on /. ... I mean, half the intended audience idolizes Linus! *shiver*

iRiver = good design

[marol]

The prism design was both groundbreaking and beautiful.

Re:Functionality Looks

[Anonymous Coward]

Ugh...looks like it's designed for two-handed use...like some sort of gameboy-clone. I guess that makes it more suitable as a movie player or image viewer than an MP3 player

Well... DUH, it has a three inch full colour screen on the fucking front. Get a clue already.

It's all a matter of taste

[Trogre]

Actually I think the iPod looks pretty freaking ugly when stacked up against this beauty from iRiver.

Honestly, it looks like a mini refrigerator you might see in Kubrik's 2001 movie. And you can't do squat with it.

Whereas the iRiver looks more akin to handheld game consoles like the GameGear.

Disclaimer: I don't have shares in either company.

FFF

[Anonymous Coward]

Form Follows Function

just to add to that

[Trepidity]

Just to add to the confusion, it's never even been consistent in computing to make a kilo be 1,024 or a mega be 1,048,576. For example, your 100 megabit ethernet card can handle 100,000,000 bits per second (not 104,857,600), and this has been the case when discussing data rate for decades.

iPod will only display artwork and visualisations

[kiwioddBall]

I think most of the features (ie Video playback) of this player are unnecessary and are not things I would miss when comparing a purchase of this to an iPod.
The iPod will have a colour screen for sure, but it will be used for displaying album artwork and visualisations - you'll be able to plug the ipod into a TV so the visulalisations and the artwork can be displayed to people dancing - a real party device. (PS I'm guessing, but Steve jobs is right when he says no-one wants to watch video on these things - he won't have video playback in iPod)

Indeed, it is weird ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony wont do it, they want a proprietary medium ... not a hard disk. At least as far as the PSP is concerned.

I think companies like iRiver should allow it too though. Considering the price of a LCD display and HD allowing people to game on these devices would add very little to the price ... for ~30$ in component costs you could give it capabilities far in excess of the GB even (good 3D for one).

The controls would probably be substandard, but the directional pad and a couple of shared buttons with the standard interface is easy. You can also put an extension port on which allows you to attach the device to a better pad and have another revenue source.

Cool people (those unlike you)

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool people. You know, everyone but you.

It seems iRiver is taking FOSS seriously

[Trogre]

They have provided firmware upgraded for most of their older mp3 players that have the grunt to handle it, and now this linux-based player is the icing on the cake.

Long live Free Software/Open Standards. Kudos to iRiver.

Mind you, I don't see much this new beast can do that my $290 Zaurus 5600 can't. Okay, except for the internal hard drive and USB 2.0 part.

Re:It seems iRiver is taking FOSS seriously

[Trogre]

That should read:
They have provided OGG Vorbis firmware upgrades....

Before evening, of course.

[Anonymous Coward]

Before evening, of course. Once the sun sets I agree with all my soul, Buffy.

Price

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I think price will be the deciding factor. Assuming it's a couple hundred it'll be wonderful. And think how kickass it will be if you can attach a usb network card or DVD player. Put other linux software on it, etc. I would definately buy one.

The critical issue

[DrRobert]

Is not whether it is uglier or better looking or has more features than the ipod. The critical factor is that it and everthing else are evaluated relative to the iPod standard, even by those who hate the iPod.

One central element of the iPods design and its success is its LACK of features. It does exactly what it needs to do (with the exception of not supporting flac) and nothing more. I can't understand why anyone would want a walkman like player that played video. Video is a concentration centered function. Some benefits of audio can be had in parallel with other activities.

I suspect it will be Apple who kills the iPod by "innovating" in lots of useless features that will corrupt its simply functional design.

Re:Functionality Looks

[Anonymous Coward]

"two-handed use"??

for porn, that'll never catch on ;) What was iRiver thinking?

Re:Pity linux distros can't play the same formats.

[Joe Tie.]

And before you say "you can compile that support in yourself", let me say to you: get lost! I'm sick to death of having to locate some retard's package of some frigging codec just to watch a movie in sub-standard quality than I can get with Windows Media Player (on my dual boot machine).

You don't have to install extra codecs to watch XviD, DivX 3,4, and 5 and mpeg2 on windows media player? All of those should be supported by default by any non crippled xine or mplayer install.

I mean, how bloody difficult could it be? But NOOOO, I have to go ALT-TAB'ing to find that other window.

I think the idea is that if one is playing full screen he won't want the view interupdted by buttons and that keyboard/joystick/remotecontroll use is going to be preferred.

So patent it then!

[NorwBlue]

so they can propably get a patent for a jog wheel on a portable videoplayingdevice. after all You are in America (My guess.)

What everyone is thinking

[AvantLegion]

Oggsome!!!

Re:What everyone is thinking

[defishguy]

They are thinking different - ly

Are you kidding?! I'll buy it BECAUSE it's PiMP!

[FatSean]

Face it, no old fogey who would be offended by the word 'PiMP' is ever going to buy one...might as well hit your target audience dead on!

Re:Functionality Looks

[Anonymous Coward]

• Ugh...looks like it's designed for two-handed use

Hmmm...I guess that rules out watching pr0n on it

can it play .VOB?

[alexandre]

It would be cool to hack one of these to add support for DeCSS / VOB so you can play backup copies of your favorite movies while on the bus. :)

Neuros Audio was first, open source

[Anonymous Coward]

The Neuros audio player is still far ahead of this thing from iRiver when it comes to just audio... since Neuros has actually open sourced the code behind their player, it offers FM transmission in addition to tuner, 30 sec clip of audio will identify the song playing, can record audio sources etc... and has been on the market now for some time, and has free USB 2.0 upgrade. =) Thats fantastic.

But...

[88NoSoup4U88]

...Can it run Windows ? :D

porn

[Lehk228]

I want one just to watch porn on.

AVI "format"?

[nedron]

It always amazes me when people (in this case a company trying to sell me a product) talks about being able to play files int he AVI format.

Eg.

Up to 80 hours of video using 320 x 240 at 500kbps AVI format.

Ummm, AVI is a container, not a codec. OK, so you can open an AVI container. What video codecs in the container do you support? Indeo? DivX? etc.

I see this more and more and it drives me nuts.

Some things no ones noticed...

[goMac2500]

The picture on the news story is a heck of a lot uglier. It also says the next one they are working on is Windows CE based, so it looks like they're just using Linux for an interim solution. There goes the hope for a line of Linux players.

Re:Some things no ones noticed...

[loid_void]

and... Go to the iRiver site. Is that a white silhouette to go with iPods black silhouette? Subtle.

Definitely for me

[Anonymous Coward]

I use a TV capture card in my PC as a sort of PVR, automatically capturing shows and streaming them to my XBOX over the home network. Being able to take the DivX's and put them on this player to take with me on the airplane would be sweet.

It doesn't hurt Apple...

[Anonymous Coward]

... that you all keep comparing every new music-related gadget to iPod.

What on the screen is more important

[Anonymous Coward]

"Technically very cool (even more so if it is hackable), but really really ugly. iRiver really should learn how to design nice looking hardware from the experts."

You can stare at your pretty iPod box. Meanwhile I'll stare at hot chix on the video screen of my pmp-120.

It needs WiMax

[geekee]

so people can watch good quality streaming video. Not sure why someone would want video on a portable device that size, otherwise. Streaming audio would be cool on an mp3 player too, and 3G would probably be good enough. Cell phones probaby already have this feature,

"ugly?"

[autopr0n]

Just because something wasn't designed by apple doesn't make it ugly. I'd say that system is pretty average for what it is. Nothing brilliant, and way to detailed.

But honestly people, apple is hardly the god of design that some people seem to think. The old iMacs for example where pretty divisive on appearance. I also found the g5 towers pretty ugly myself. Bold, but ugly none the less.

The question I have

[beakburke]

is what ever happened to ogg tarkin (the 'new' codec, not based on VP3)

Nice design

[Comrade Pikachu]

And yet, it looks strangely familiar.

USB on the go....

[NeoSkandranon]

I would consider getting one of these to serve as a picture-dump for my digi cam. at 20gb storage it would be all i'd ever need, without spending afortune on CF cards

Game controller?

[hearingaid]

It doesn't look like a keyboard & mouse to me.

Oh wait, you meant a console controller. Ye gads, how I hate those things. I swear they were designed for somebody with an eight-year-old's hands. Just tiny little things. I miss the Old Days, when you could plug your WICO Boss into a console.

And I'm not a huge guy. I just have ... big hands. :)

Re:Game controller?

[strider_starslayer]

you must not have picked up a controller i the last- 10 years....

I can't think of a controller save for the orriginal nintendo, or the turbo graphix 16, that I felt was 'too small', specifically I think X-box controller are TOO BIG.

I can do a quick comparison- the button seperation on a keyboard (which you infer is comfortable by saying that a keyboard and mouse are a good way to play games), is roughly 2cm (from middel of button to middel of button); On a gamecube, button seperation is never less then 2.5cm (from middel of button to middel of button), PS2 has it's L/Rs seperated by 1.5cm, but there thumb buttons are all 3cm apart. X-box controllers, despite being huge, actually have buttonst aht are only spaced by ~3.5 cm. (working from memory on Xbox)

The span of my hands in a 'game arch' (word I just made up: let you hands go to naturally curved positions and put them together to form an 'M' with thumbs overtop) is literally half of the width of the PS2 controller, and Gamecube controller, and about 1/3 that of the Xbox controller (damn that thing is HUGE!)

So this leaves me to believe that:
either you just like to complain,
or you don't know how to hold a controller
Or you having held one since the early nintendo days

Re:Game controller?

[hearingaid]

X-Box: Too small. PS2: Too small. Yes, I've tried them.

Yes, they're better than the old NES controllers, with the spindly little joystick designed by Satan. Which reminded me of nothing so much as the old Kraft joysticks. (Remember them? I tried using them like once or twice, and couldn't shake the feeling that I was going to snap the shaft in two.)

Anyway. Another point: Not enough buttons. I hate having to hit eight different buttons (okay, I'm exaggerating here) in order to do something, just because the thing doesn't have 102 buttons. (And yeah, I'm one of Those Guys who likes to have pretty much every key programmed to do something in the game).

MPEG-4?

[hearingaid]

Did I read that right? Will this sucka play my MPEG-4 video files?

Rock! Okay, I'm broke, but if I stop being broke, then I now have another item for the shopping list. :)

I'm still looking for a DVD player that'll play MP4s that are burnt to a CD. MPEG-4 is so much nicer than VideoCD.

Re:Pity linux distros can't play the same formats.

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, how bloody difficult could it be? But NOOOO, I have to go ALT-TAB'ing to find that other window


Here's a nickel towards getting a mouse.

paper iPod cutout

[loid_void]

That's like using a blow-up doll in place of the really hot super model. I'll take the sexy super model!

I think they...

[farzadb82]

forgot the i in the product name.

Freud would say

[loid_void]

Do I detect more than a bit of iPod envy?

Wait a sec - their image answers your questions!

[gwoodrow]

So for all of you naysayers who are dissing portable video, I'd like to point something out to you. I may be wrong, but the image of the media player on their website appears to be displaying Jenna Jameson. Again, I might be wrong... but if I'm RIGHT - that means ALL PORN, ALL THE TIME! You just can't beat portable poontang.

What would round out the rich feature list..

[dhanes]

...would be some 802.11a/b/g, or at least some 'tooth. I'd definitely get one.

Re:What would round out the rich feature list..

[dyefade]

I didn't think of that when I saw the page, but now that you mention it, not having ANY wireless connectivity is a glaring omission from the feature list. Still looks great though.

Re:OGG - From the /. blurb no less!

[lintux]

Unfortunately, at least on my iMP-550 there's still only beta support for Ogg-files, and indeed the code is not too stable. I'd like iRiver to fix that soon... :-/

MP3 through WMA?

[Rai]

The number of supported formats is extensive, ranging from MP3 through WMA, ASF, Ogg Vorbis, JPEG, BMP, AVI, MP4, DivX 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, XviD, MPEG4 SP, Advanced SP and, finally, MPEG1.

What is MP3 through WMA? Is this to imply that when you copy MP3s to it, it converts them to WMA?

Or am I asking where the any key is? :)

Definitely not ugly, but maybe a little weird

[emorphien]

I don't personally think the iPods are that sexy. They're too bland, too featureless and too cheap looking (particularly from the front) and in some ways their function follows form. They're designed to look nice but that doesn't last long if you use them.

I actually really think the iRiver iHP (now called just the H series) look better than the iPods, sleek and simple with a some accents but I think they're much more durable.

Dunno about this one, might be one of those "have to see it in person" things before I can draw a conclusion.

Not Ugly

[slivovitz]

I looked at it and frankly it did not look that bad. For about two dollars you could get some masking tape and white spray paint and make it look more like the ipod. You should probably take care not to gum up the controls. Or ... some third party company could produce a hollow ipod looking shell and you would just slip it in close the hatch and go looking kool as hell.

PINSTRIPES!! AHHH

[emorphien]

My favorite Mac mistake were the late G3 (Blue and white) and moreso the early G4 towers.

They had pinstripes. horrible, horrible pinstripes.

The G5s are dust magnets, all those perforated panels and no air filters. They're also just simply too big for most people, I'm not a huge fan either. A fatal design flaw that Apple hasn't quit is the single optical bay. Dumm.

Re:PINSTRIPES!! AHHH

[adzoox]

Actually in case you didn't know - firewire is faster than the internal buses. And Apple PURPOSELY includes a Superdrive that can do what 90% of optical drive useage is for.

+

Apple wants you to open up the case AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE ... to me - I don't see it as a flaw, I do wish they would offer a custom configuration online though that gave you two bays.

Re:PINSTRIPES!! AHHH

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually in case you didn't know - firewire is faster than the internal buses. And Apple PURPOSELY includes a Superdrive that can do what 90% of optical drive useage is for.

Not exactly, but thats what they would like you to believe.
Firewire 1 is only 50MBytes/s, Firewire 2 is 100, however thats the same as what the internal IDE 100 connection uses.

Firewire also has higher latencies.

Congrats on buying in to Apples marketing.

Re:PINSTRIPES!! AHHH

[Anonymous Coward]

www.barefeats.com for your perusal.

Re:PINSTRIPES!! AHHH

[Anonymous Coward]

I've read everything there. nothing new

don't like the site and often our tests come out very contradictory. Then again a site as obsessed with one computer system like that site it will often be questionable. Believe what ya like.

Re:Wait a sec - their image answers your questions

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Mariah Carey actually.

Its called 'bar of soap'

[torpor]

The closer a consumer product looks/feels to a bar of soap, the better.

Why? Because bars of soap are the most intimate object, and you replace them frequently. That's a good association for consumer electronics designers to make.

RANT -- I don't get it

[silence535]

How can you all go on an bitch about how this thing does not look like an iPod? I simply don't get it.

iRiver is producing high quality geek toys in supreme quality, supporting you favourite nerdy thingy software pet projects like Linux and Ogg Vorbis with a clear commitment to continue doing so and all you can do is complain that it does no look like an iPod? C'mon, what sort of geek are you? Those who build Mini-Itx clusters or those who read read glossy future magazines?

If you want an iPod, then the heck go and buy one and try watching videos on it, but please shut up.

-silence

Looks.

[zander]

I'm really wondering how big a percentage of people like black wearable tech.

The most successful applications are not black, and when a new product is released this should really be one of the things they research.

Also; where do you hold it? I surely can't hold it with my thumb on the screen, and all the other parst have buttons. If I'm watching a video (the latest game, or something) I have to hold it in my hands for a long time, in an akward position...

No, the design is not nearly good enough for me.

Re:I WANT TO SHOOT MY WAD ON LINDSAY LOHAN'S TITS!

[Anonymous Coward]

PWN3D.

Feature set I want to see

[AndersBrownworth]

Seems like the feature set of this new genre is still being fleshed out. Support for this and that video format can be flashed later. (huge plus if it's hackable) I mostly care about the hardware. For example, if I go on a trip, I don't want to lug my laptop with me everywhere, but I still want to take a digital camera. So show me a media player with a compact flash slot or somthing. If you're going to watch a movie on a 2 inch screen, you've probably already decided to leave your laptop at home, so why doesn't the portable hard drive sport the features you would need from a laptop on the road? I don't advocate making the thing send email or try to be everything to everyone, but at least sport CF / SD or maybe USB so I can use the hard drive!

loks are ok, and connectivity is reasonable

[pensivemusic]

internal feature set and the hack will be of interest. actually, this looks like a controller for a video gamer setup to me. perhaps their USB will support a LAN port dongle thing...

Re:OGG - From the /. blurb no less!

[AkaXakA]

You want to get the Korean FIrmware. Everything will still be in english, so don't worry about having everything in Korean :D

I've done this myself for my IMP-400 and it works great.

Get yours at the download site.

And no, I don't know any korean, but I managed to find this pretty easily....either I'm uber smart or it's just the most logical designed site ever.

Book reader?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if you can read eBooks, PDF or text files with this thing? I think that would be a nice feature, listen to music AND read at the same time.

iRiver loooooves to promise things

[DeckerEgo]

Like.... ooh... firmware, gapless playback, full OGG support. But lately they haven't been releasing promised features (instead silly lyric support), OGG support is limited to bitrates >96 or 360 kbps, firmware isn't stable... and it was promised in January. They seem like a company with a big-thinking marketing department. But not much else.

Re:iRiver loooooves to promise things

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I've never had any problems with their firmware and I'm using the 350 CD player

more about Linux with portable media players

[wehe]

Visit TuxMobil if you want to get more information on how to connect a portable digital media player to a Linux computer.

Re:OGG - From the /. blurb no less!

[lintux]

Hmmm, this certainly looks interesting! Did you also experience some bugs (like skipping tracks, or "crashes") with the 1.50b version, which disappeared with the 1.60N?

Photos of new iriver players.

[inplug]

More photos on pmp100 and other new models. here

ASP

[Quinn]

A Linux based media player with a site served by Windows/ASP.

That does not bode well.

Windows Media on Linux

[t1m0r4n]

The post says "Linux based PMP-120 media player which through its colour screen can support MP3, ASF, Ogg Vorbis, JPEG, BMP, AVI, MP4, DivX 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, XviD, MPEG4 SP, Advanced SP and MPEG1."

But the web site says "Up to 600 hours of music using Windows Media format at 64kbps." I never realized I could play wm on linux. Uhm, learn something new every day.

Now those ppl always saying...

[Anonymous Coward]

But does it run linux? But does it play OGG? Will STFU

Upgradeable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone have any information if this will have ugradeable firmware like the mp3 players allowing it to play new video and audio formats as they come out? Because if it does then who cares what it looks like... X Money for something that looks nice vs Y money for something that can play future formats.... Y wins

Re:Pity linux distros can't play the same formats.

[mfearby]

Yes, I do have to install extra codecs to watch those formats you've mentioned, but it's a no-brainer install and I don't have to go compiling shit and downloading the missing libraries that I will inevitably find. In short, compiling shit yourself these days is a right bitch. The fact that an RPM isn't necessarily a Red Hat RPM doesn't help!

Oh, and Windows Media Player has this extremely difficult-to-implement feature whereby fullscreen video will see the buttons down the bottom slide away after a few seconds. Now how hard could that be?

if (window.fullscreen)
window.buttons.visible = false;