The flip side of that argument is, that if 'the public' could see in color on television nightly children strapped with explosives blowing up funerals, the 'the public' might well get pissed off enough at how evil an act like that is that they would be supportive of getting even more involved.
Very good! You're able to see both sides of an argument without someone having to spell it out for you! I'm so proud.
You suggest that the Truth would prevent our presence there. It might well have the opposite effect, but you've made your judgement apparent in your argument. You've already defined your version of the "Truth".
You did notice that "just my $.02" part of my original post, correct?
Notice in my original post I didn't say video from any particular side, I simply said video.
American Citizens are too complacent about this stuff. Hearing "A firefight broke out in Fallujah today following a suicide bombing. 25 people were killed, and hundreds were injured" is EXTREMELY different than seeing video of that happening or the aftermath of it.
Likewise, hearing about a beheading video and SEEING that beheading video are two very different things as well.
That being said, as far as Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned, no one was beheading and shooting our soldiers before we put them there...
For the same reason why I think uncensored war footage should be shown on the nightly news, maybe if the average civilian actually saw what goes on in war, the public would be less likely to stand by idly while our government spends billions on killing people on the other side of the planet.
If you noticed, I never said a specific side or even a specific country...I simply said what goes on in a war, using the "our government" as an example because I'm American. If I were British, I instead would have said "Southeast of us". I'll be sure to leave personal geographics out of my next post though, sorry it confused you.
Anyway, the point is that, by showing raw uncensored footage, the public would see how bad war is from ALL sides. That's the whole point behind it being uncensored or "raw"...let the people decide for themselves, which you've been repeateing throughout this conversation.
Actually I completely agree with you. If you want the truth to be told, tell the whole truth! How can you not know that these soldiers snapped because they saw nearly a decade of absolute brutality in the way the 'innocent' people of the region treat women and children? You sure as hell arent hearing stories of that brutality on the news beyond an occasional snipit. As I said, I dont forgive soldiers who (might) have commited cold-blooded murder. But I dont forgive barbarism either. And neither should you. You should be exactly as pissed and exactly as interested in all US citizens knowing about all the barbarism as you are in all the US citizens know about these alledged murdering US soldiers.
That's not entirely true...you hear on the news all the time about bodies found beheaded, or women killed for questioning a man's authority, or any number of other things. Granted, they aren't given much air time, but these things are reported.
The primary problem is that the average person doesn't want to hear these things, which is why they aren't covered nearly as much as they should be. There's no one person or "media outlet" that can be blamed for that.
But you dont appear to be. You arent calling for the heads of people who will murder a 7 year old boy, or rape a woman so that she can be beheaded. The left will instead find every reason why we just don't understand their culture, and they sure as hell dont advertise that kind of behavior to our public.
I refuse to respond to a statement (true or not) that shows obvious, heavily one-sided political bias. Sorry.
There are barbaric tyrants worldwide! But it's convenient for us to by clothes made in china, and toys from here, and oil from there, and blah blah blah. We don't report how brutal they are to their citizens because if we keep our mouths shut and foster a "world economy" we can get their shit cheap.
Sadly true. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
I don't mind condemning soldiers who step across the line. But I have a real problem with the hypocricy of forgiving everyone else in the world for their sins and being the first to step up onto the soap box to condemn our own.
To play devil's advocate here, that's what makes us "better" than them...caring about our own actions, regardless of theirs.
The point of what I posted was to point out that if you want to condemn the US Military for its brutal activities, be consistent and be fair. If you want to display the evil of our soldiers, display the evil of all soldiers. If you want to prove how bad we are by display all information, then display all information about how bad those we fight are too. Give all the info, and let people actually make some self-judgements
If you weren't so quick to be an asshole, you would have noticed that this is exactly what I was advocating.
rather than expecting us to just swallow the spoon fed self-loathing of the far left.
yeah...because what the far right spoon-feeds us is so much better. Shouldn't you be focusing on the "spoon fed" part more than the "far left" part?
Remember kids...agreeing with it doesn't make it unbiased!
The point is that you're so quick to condemn the military on this situation. And if they were actually knowingly murdering innocent people then they should be condemned. But the fact is that you dont have all the facts, and yet you want desperately to see them all hanged along with the entire US military establishments.
I don't want them condemned or hung, I just want the truth to be told. Is that such a bad thing to ask for?
So anyway lets get those US Soldiers and hang 'em high!".
::sigh:: Are we really going back to this bullshit? "If you don't agree with the war, you're against the troops"? Seriously?
You think that we should show the world how brutal we are? Fine. As soon as we show the world how brutal the WORLD is I'll be right there with you. As soon as we start showing people WHY we are in many of the places we are, instead of shielding everyone here from the horrible acts that people outside our rubber-bumber nation commit then we can start showing them how all people compare. You don't want to show both sides. You don't want to give context. You don't want people here to see how bad some of these dictators and regimes are because you know it will do nothing if not ensure the resolve our nation has for kicking the crap out of some of the nutjobs out there.
There are plenty of places around the planet that were and are FAR worse off than the Middle East...yet it seems like that is the only place we pay attention to when the general populace is oppressed. Why is that?
I understand the need to keep things secret, and I understand that in war shit happens...but that doesn't mean when things go awry, we the people shouldn't know about it. For the same reason why I think uncensored war footage should be shown on the nightly news, maybe if the average civilian actually saw what goes on in war, the public would be less likely to stand by idly while our government spends billions on killing people on the other side of the planet.
I can understand OCR software not working if you are scanning a document, due to dirt over the text or what have you...but OCR failing on a PDF with typed text? WTF?
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 2, Insightful
My point was that a computer doesn't have to cost $3,000, like the GP claimed. I never said doing so was a talent, just that it was possible. Thanks for being an asshole though, I appreciate it.
Now to combine this with the sounds of Sputnik and the "sounds" of Mercury from the movie Sunshine.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1, Troll
To be fair, the high end iPad costs only $829.00 plus a 3G contract. As computers go that's really cheap. Someone will point out that the 3G contract is more expensive then the computer, but you don't have to get a 3G contract to have a functional iPad. The last computer I bought cost over $3000.00. They basically do the same things. Almost equally well. It's kinda depressing.
I call troll. For $500 (yes, including monitor) you can have a modern system capable of occasional gaming, playback of HD video, and minor audio production/graphic design work.
While I agree with the premise here, I'm not sure I like the idea of forcing companies to do this. I mean, the advantage of an unlocked phone is only apparent if there are other networks in the country that phone can run on.
Maybe this isn't a problem in Canada like it is here in the US...?
Of course it is. Since it's your state, Mr. Reid, it couldn't possibly be anywhere else, right?
That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best at::insert arbitrary thing here::. I got news for you, bud: it's America. Hardly anything here is the best. A lot of it is very good, some of it is even awesome, and some things are even legendary in how amazing they are...but I think saying best is generally pushing it.
-American who loves his country, which is why he can be honest about it
I don't know, cause it's what argumentative nerds do?
Yes. Yes we do:-)
(pronounced cited)?
Here you go...just as I suspected, local to the area. I was unaware that, according to the page I just linked to, it originated in the 80's...but I'm not that surprised. In case you don't want to click that link, you would pronounce both "c"s as if they were an S.
Good, let it die. Speak no more of it please.
Hey, I'm with you man...that shit annoyed me whenever anyone said it, (and it still does on the rare occasion someone says it). It just seemed topical, since we were discussing slang.
Well, high school, for starters. (I graduated in 2002) Also, a LOT of people that were in other grades said it too. It's possible that it's regional slang, only used around here (DC/Metro area), but whether that is the case or not...why would I lie about a freakin' slang word???
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The flip side of that argument is, that if 'the public' could see in color on television nightly children strapped with explosives blowing up funerals, the 'the public' might well get pissed off enough at how evil an act like that is that they would be supportive of getting even more involved.
Very good! You're able to see both sides of an argument without someone having to spell it out for you! I'm so proud.
You suggest that the Truth would prevent our presence there. It might well have the opposite effect, but you've made your judgement apparent in your argument. You've already defined your version of the "Truth".
You did notice that "just my $.02" part of my original post, correct?
Yes, they should.
Notice in my original post I didn't say video from any particular side, I simply said video.
American Citizens are too complacent about this stuff. Hearing "A firefight broke out in Fallujah today following a suicide bombing. 25 people were killed, and hundreds were injured" is EXTREMELY different than seeing video of that happening or the aftermath of it.
Likewise, hearing about a beheading video and SEEING that beheading video are two very different things as well.
That being said, as far as Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned, no one was beheading and shooting our soldiers before we put them there...
From my original post:
For the same reason why I think uncensored war footage should be shown on the nightly news, maybe if the average civilian actually saw what goes on in war, the public would be less likely to stand by idly while our government spends billions on killing people on the other side of the planet.
If you noticed, I never said a specific side or even a specific country...I simply said what goes on in a war, using the "our government" as an example because I'm American. If I were British, I instead would have said "Southeast of us". I'll be sure to leave personal geographics out of my next post though, sorry it confused you.
Anyway, the point is that, by showing raw uncensored footage, the public would see how bad war is from ALL sides. That's the whole point behind it being uncensored or "raw"...let the people decide for themselves, which you've been repeateing throughout this conversation.
Actually I completely agree with you. If you want the truth to be told, tell the whole truth! How can you not know that these soldiers snapped because they saw nearly a decade of absolute brutality in the way the 'innocent' people of the region treat women and children? You sure as hell arent hearing stories of that brutality on the news beyond an occasional snipit. As I said, I dont forgive soldiers who (might) have commited cold-blooded murder. But I dont forgive barbarism either. And neither should you. You should be exactly as pissed and exactly as interested in all US citizens knowing about all the barbarism as you are in all the US citizens know about these alledged murdering US soldiers.
That's not entirely true...you hear on the news all the time about bodies found beheaded, or women killed for questioning a man's authority, or any number of other things. Granted, they aren't given much air time, but these things are reported.
The primary problem is that the average person doesn't want to hear these things, which is why they aren't covered nearly as much as they should be. There's no one person or "media outlet" that can be blamed for that.
But you dont appear to be. You arent calling for the heads of people who will murder a 7 year old boy, or rape a woman so that she can be beheaded. The left will instead find every reason why we just don't understand their culture, and they sure as hell dont advertise that kind of behavior to our public.
I refuse to respond to a statement (true or not) that shows obvious, heavily one-sided political bias. Sorry.
There are barbaric tyrants worldwide! But it's convenient for us to by clothes made in china, and toys from here, and oil from there, and blah blah blah. We don't report how brutal they are to their citizens because if we keep our mouths shut and foster a "world economy" we can get their shit cheap.
Sadly true. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
I don't mind condemning soldiers who step across the line. But I have a real problem with the hypocricy of forgiving everyone else in the world for their sins and being the first to step up onto the soap box to condemn our own.
To play devil's advocate here, that's what makes us "better" than them...caring about our own actions, regardless of theirs.
I'm all for helping remove the thumb of oppression from people...which means moving beyond the middle east.
I realize we can't destroy all of the hornets nests, but we shouldn't focus exclusively on the big ones while ignoring the little ones.
The point of what I posted was to point out that if you want to condemn the US Military for its brutal activities, be consistent and be fair. If you want to display the evil of our soldiers, display the evil of all soldiers. If you want to prove how bad we are by display all information, then display all information about how bad those we fight are too. Give all the info, and let people actually make some self-judgements
If you weren't so quick to be an asshole, you would have noticed that this is exactly what I was advocating.
rather than expecting us to just swallow the spoon fed self-loathing of the far left.
yeah...because what the far right spoon-feeds us is so much better. Shouldn't you be focusing on the "spoon fed" part more than the "far left" part?
Remember kids...agreeing with it doesn't make it unbiased!
The point is that you're so quick to condemn the military on this situation. And if they were actually knowingly murdering innocent people then they should be condemned. But the fact is that you dont have all the facts, and yet you want desperately to see them all hanged along with the entire US military establishments.
I don't want them condemned or hung, I just want the truth to be told. Is that such a bad thing to ask for?
So anyway lets get those US Soldiers and hang 'em high!".
::sigh:: Are we really going back to this bullshit? "If you don't agree with the war, you're against the troops"? Seriously?
You think that we should show the world how brutal we are? Fine. As soon as we show the world how brutal the WORLD is I'll be right there with you. As soon as we start showing people WHY we are in many of the places we are, instead of shielding everyone here from the horrible acts that people outside our rubber-bumber nation commit then we can start showing them how all people compare. You don't want to show both sides. You don't want to give context. You don't want people here to see how bad some of these dictators and regimes are because you know it will do nothing if not ensure the resolve our nation has for kicking the crap out of some of the nutjobs out there.
There are plenty of places around the planet that were and are FAR worse off than the Middle East...yet it seems like that is the only place we pay attention to when the general populace is oppressed. Why is that?
I understand the need to keep things secret, and I understand that in war shit happens...but that doesn't mean when things go awry, we the people shouldn't know about it. For the same reason why I think uncensored war footage should be shown on the nightly news, maybe if the average civilian actually saw what goes on in war, the public would be less likely to stand by idly while our government spends billions on killing people on the other side of the planet.
Just my $.02
I can understand OCR software not working if you are scanning a document, due to dirt over the text or what have you...but OCR failing on a PDF with typed text? WTF?
No worries, it happens :-)
:-)
My point was that a computer doesn't have to cost $3,000, like the GP claimed. I never said doing so was a talent, just that it was possible. Thanks for being an asshole though, I appreciate it.
Now to combine this with the sounds of Sputnik and the "sounds" of Mercury from the movie Sunshine.
To be fair, the high end iPad costs only $829.00 plus a 3G contract. As computers go that's really cheap. Someone will point out that the 3G contract is more expensive then the computer, but you don't have to get a 3G contract to have a functional iPad. The last computer I bought cost over $3000.00. They basically do the same things. Almost equally well. It's kinda depressing.
I call troll. For $500 (yes, including monitor) you can have a modern system capable of occasional gaming, playback of HD video, and minor audio production/graphic design work.
Yes. $500. Including a monitor.
I was just being fecesish.
^^^^^See what I did there?
Do iPhones dream of non-walled Androids?
I bet ice cream sales really struggle up there :p
While I agree with the premise here, I'm not sure I like the idea of forcing companies to do this. I mean, the advantage of an unlocked phone is only apparent if there are other networks in the country that phone can run on.
Maybe this isn't a problem in Canada like it is here in the US...?
Of course it is. Since it's your state, Mr. Reid, it couldn't possibly be anywhere else, right?
That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best at ::insert arbitrary thing here::. I got news for you, bud: it's America. Hardly anything here is the best. A lot of it is very good, some of it is even awesome, and some things are even legendary in how amazing they are...but I think saying best is generally pushing it.
-American who loves his country, which is why he can be honest about it
I don't know, cause it's what argumentative nerds do?
Yes. Yes we do :-)
(pronounced cited)?
Here you go...just as I suspected, local to the area. I was unaware that, according to the page I just linked to, it originated in the 80's...but I'm not that surprised. In case you don't want to click that link, you would pronounce both "c"s as if they were an S.
Good, let it die. Speak no more of it please.
Hey, I'm with you man...that shit annoyed me whenever anyone said it, (and it still does on the rare occasion someone says it). It just seemed topical, since we were discussing slang.
Well, high school, for starters. (I graduated in 2002) Also, a LOT of people that were in other grades said it too. It's possible that it's regional slang, only used around here (DC/Metro area), but whether that is the case or not...why would I lie about a freakin' slang word???
Psyched and ciced are two different things. They are both entirely different words, although their definitions are the same.
It's not a bad thing to be precise.
Unless "being precise" means calling something "Kinect". :p
Around here, we spell bingo link this: L-A-I-D
...but if I remember correctly, the same A4 chip in the iPad is supposed to be showing up in the new iPhone. Can someone confirm?