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Why Intel Wants To Network Your Clothes Dryer
An anonymous reader writes "Intel has shown off a working prototype of a small box that, among other things, can monitor your clothes dryer to see how much it's contributing to your power bill. The Intelligent Home Energy Management proof-of-concept device is a small box with an 11.56-inch OLED touchscreen that is designed to act as an electronic dashboard for monitoring energy use in the home. By equipping devices like home entertainment systems and clothes dryers with wireless networked power adapters, the system can actually report back the power draw for a particular power point. Leave the house, and it can make sure power-draining devices like that plasma TV are turned off. It is unlikely the device will enter production (there are apparently only four in existence), however this story about the box shows something we can expect to see in the home of tomorrow. Ultimately, it's not only about saving money, but also reducing load on the electricity grid by removing needless power use."
They want to see your underwear, that's why.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
If it could also give suggestions such as:
"You know, if you waited 4 hours and ran this load of laundy at midnight, you'd save 30% because of the lower power rates"
That would be pretty cool and useful! We can save a lot of money, not by buying a bunch of new electronic goods but, by simply modifying our habits with our current electric drawing devices.
If Intel is worried about power draw, maybe they should consider a better architecture
These will only become common if the government mandates it. I do not believe that the average end user will get enough benefit out of a device like this for them to be interested in putting the effort and money out to deploy and use these.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
This'll be a great idea if it can be built so cheaply that the money I save from using it is greater than the money I'd save by not buying it.
Not sure I see that happening all that soon.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
...if you could network your washer and dryer to see how long is left on the cycle.
"Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
...they come up with a way to detect that monster that keeps eating my fucking socks. I'm sick and tired of wearing mismatching socks! DAMMIT, FIND THAT BASTARD!!!
Living With a Nerd
...how much energy you'd save by turning off The Intelligent Home Energy Management proof-of-concept device?
I suppose I could embrace this technology, given the security of my firewall.
I have visions of other people walking to their dryer and reading 'pwned' on the screen as they discover their clothes are all still wet.
Or even worse... PERMANENTLY PRESSED!!
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
Assume for a second that they are going to start selling these systems tomorrow. What would their cost be? $100? $300? $500?
Now, how much would you stand to save per year in reduced energy use from a device like this monitoring and potentially powering off unused devices? $50? $100?
I'm already pretty good at keeping things off when I'm not using them so I'm skeptical that a device like this is going to save me any money after you figure in the cost of the device and the ironic cost of powering the device.
In theory a device like this sounds good but the very people who are worried about their energy use (and would purchase a device like this) are probably the people who least need it.
I don't want to run a network drop to my laundry room.
Is it going to add more than $10 to the cost of the dryer? If yes, and unless it's going to save me more than $10 in the first year; again, don't bother.
My highly advanced clothes-line technology comes with an implicit display of its power consumption - zero.
I don't see the appeal. It looks like it's over-engineering a solution to something that can be done with common sense.
Then again, I love tech and gadgets and I guess most of that is an over-engineered solution to something or another.
The only reason I would care about this is if I realized I left something *dangerous* on before I left for work and could turn it off remotely. I don't use a curling iron, but I know for some that would be a big deal. A stove / oven / toaster oven / etc would be dangerous as well, and while I never left one on before leaving the house I know that's a concern for some. Though I imagine only electric stoves and ovens would apply unless there was a way to electronically turn off the gas reliably.
As for the power draw, I would just care enough about it to know in the beginning "how much does X" use via one of those little gadgets you can temporarily plug between the device and outlet. Then decide for myself if I should monitor how much I use device X.
Personally, I'm in the mind-set of "turn if off when not in use."
- Not watching or listening to the TV, turn it off.
- Not in that room across the house, turn off the main light.
I shouldn't need a device to remind me.
So the Government (or the egacorporation acting on the govt's behalf) can turn off your appliance, and only let you use it during certain predetermined times. i.e. Rationing of electricity usage.
Yeah I know..... you think I'm a nutter for saying that, but then again I've studied government history. If they CAN do a thing, they will do that thing. Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
what's the impact on my power bill of a bunch of these little things?
who's moderating the meta-moderators?
That way people would be less inclined to switch on their power-hungry TVs and would do something (hopefully less energy consuming) instead. ... Oh, hang on. What's did you say? they already do that?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
....whenever I move around the house I turn lights off, turn off radios, unplug anything with a goddamn LED on when the device is off (I'm looking at you toaster!), and firmly but politely as the other people in the house to turn things off when they aren't using it.
I'm not "green" I'm cheap!
"Green" means spending money on this monitoring device, it means buying a new car when the old one could just use a good tune up, it means feeling good but not accomplishing anything. Being cheap means that I actually have an impact on MY bottom line, I use less therefore I spend less. It accomplishes more for me and for the environment.
So basically I'm supposed to save money by plugging in another electronic device that needs to stay on at all times if I want it to efficiently monitor my power usage?
Ultimately it's about selling more Intel chips.
I recently shopped in a high-end major appliance store and the salesman told me about a frig that has the ability to contact the manufacturer if something goes wrong. The system figures out what parts are needed and sends them to the local repair center so that they are on hand when the repair person comes to your house. While that is pretty slick and efficient the darker side is that information could potentially be used by the nanny state to turn down your frig settings. Thus proving a major axiom: Any piece of technology, law, or concept can simultaneously be used for both good and evil.
and your needs, when this goes city wide, expect others to set the power quota, with you at home.
One Australian city had to find generator capacity - solution, float an on/off radio network idea
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/etsa-plans-to-take-control/story-e6freo8c-1225697720719
Note the "power would be cut to certain appliances" and "a plasma TV and airconditioner might be turned off remotely"
This is the gateway for a "death panel" on your private electrical use.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Our flying cars are just around the corner.
I have heard about the intelligent home all my life. So did my parents AND their parents. Look up some old reels from a "visions of the future" style problem. Where you see some housewife in black&white use robots we still don't have. 50+ years and the toaster still doesn't work right.
Okay, so the dryer is networked. What now? Report its power drain? I know it drains power, I can hear it running. How much? Well, I know how much thank you, I can see it on the bill. If I don't care about the money I sure as hell don't care about the environment OR that it will brownout the district.
If I do care about the environment and bill, then I would hardly want to ADD to the polution and cost by installing electronic devices I don't need.
This belongs in the category of the fridge that scans your food. The gadget is called a wife. They can see straight through metal and can detect rotting food a mile away. The gadget for saving electricity is called a dad. Try it. Get a wife with the optional extra of a kiddy or two (odd enough you don't get a discount for bulk buying) and you soon will be the most efficient energy saver on the planet.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Correct, its about monitoring the citizens even further. Expect gen 2 to report back to the government to see if you are washing too often.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Intel doesn't have teenagers in the house.
I don't think we need the added complexity or the flood of daily metrics. Instead of fitting all of these appliances with their own power-monitoring and networking features, just buy one Kill-A-Watt, measure each appliance once in their typical usage pattern(s), and make some decisions. If you think they will deteriorate over time, measure them again in six months. Of course Intel wants to sell more chips, but I don't really want to turn my house into the NORAD Crystal Palace with all of the metrics-gathering.
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How much electricity will this box be using 24x7 to do it's monitoring?
Wouldn't all the electricity that the box uses, be unnecessary?
Yahoo and HP will want to try to buy adspace on the dryer's LCD display.
Less Talk, More Beer.
If I buy power for use in my home, the power's mine, see, to dry clothes if I have a mind. And I have. You needn't watch me.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Like in my Onkyo amp - if you've enabled HDMI control or Network control, putting it into standby it is still drawing over 70 watts of power - really not what you would expect at all. Got that (and everything else) attached to an intelliplug (http://www.oneclickpower.com/store/) now, cuts power to the lot.
and for the pc, got a great extension lead that has a foot switch hanging off it, so just stamp on it and its like turning everything off at the wall. very handy. and saves all the monitors/usb devices sitting there in standby.
That is really cool! Sadly CL&P doesn't seem to offer anything near that. In fact, the way I'm billed, it doesn't seem to matter what time of the day I use the power...it's the same rate. The off/peak power billing plan only makes sense for people who use a ton of power. Despite all my computers, fish tank, tortoise house...still under 800 Killowatt hours a month. Maybe it's time to review their offerings.
Variable Peak Pricing requires me to buy my electricity from CL&P instead of from the company that uses all renewable tech to generate.
Oh well, take one for the team and all that.
Blar.
Just get a killawatt, plug it in, turn the drier on for a cycle, and you've got its usage. Do this for your other appliances and you'll have all the data you will ever need.
There is no reason to have on-going monitoring in your house, as appliances don't change their electrical usage over time. However, the simplest solution won't lead to profits for Intel. In fact, you'll use more energy constantly powering the monitoring device hob, the sensors, the Ethernet network, etc... All these parasitic monitors will raise your bill. Not by much, it could even save on your bill, if you put the information to good use. But I can think of no reason why a killawatt won't be cheaper and just as useful.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Anything that I own that is worth running off hours, namely the washing machine, dryer, and dishwasher already has the ability to dial in the number of hours before it starts.
The only one I ever use is the dishwasher, and that's more because I don't want to listen to it while I'm up. I tend to do 2-4 loads of clothes at a time which makes it rather hard to schedule running at off peak hours. Your money is better spent on a higher spin cycle which reduces dry times. A lot of my clothes come out so that they can hang dry in about 10 minutes. Or a gas dryer.
Most people use the power they use because they want to use it then. Shall I only use the oven after midnite? All of this is a waste of money. Just another way to make money for GE, Intel, etc.
So why does this have to be wireless then? Are they that stupid?
The gear already has wires hooked up and going wireless for no reason is yet another potential vulnerability, data leak, point of attack, and so on.
I work in the AMI/ Smart Grid field and I am just finishing up a study on HAN devices for a municipality. This is the way to go, with a ZigBee enabled device to communicate with power monitoring adapters that all of your electrical loads plug into. If it also supported an internet LAN connection back up to the utility AMI MMS (meter management system) it could incorporate the latest billing rate information and any data collected from the AMI meter outside the house.
There are some solutions out there that are closed-proprietary but I believe that a standards-based solution is the right way to go. HAN needs to get to the point where you can go into your local home improvement store and buy devices that can associate to a central device. Right now the price-point is too high at around $100 a device and it can cost $300-$400 to equip a home with a IHD (in home dislay), programmable thermostat and a communications gateway.
I hope that Intel can apply pressure to the marketplace so this technology can become ubiquitous.
Tisha Hayes
E.On in the UK offer a monitor device called 'electrisave'. So much for there only being 4 in the world.
Here in the UK we're seeing a lot of devices that you place around the incoming electricity feed (via a loop you put around the cable) that has a wireless transmitter to a LCD display of current overall power usage (and some historical stats). They're quite cool, some can be connected to your PC, like the CurrentCost Envi. The idea is you can see how much power those hungry devices use as you see the meter spike up when you turn them on.
The government has set a policy for monitoring meters, and the electricity companies (and Sky TV for some reason) are offering subsidised units (I got mine cheap off ebay from someone who had one of these).
You can get these things in the US and Australia/NZ too, and even Google is getting involved as these things will upload to Google Powermeter.
So, adding a wireless usage transmitter to every plug sounds expensive (but cool) but it wouldn't provide that much more information than you can get currently. However, the CurrentCost devices talk to each other (and you can set up multiple meters) so if their comms protocol was a standard (it might be, they advertise it as C2), then additional transmitters could fit into an existing power-usage network without fuss.
So, what about the monitor itself? Does it monitor its own power consumption and then turn itself off if its using too much?
This already exists under the name "PlugWise"
http://www.plugwise.com/en
I bet they want to inflate the system with a dual core atom rather than a low power solution like ARM. Something designed to monitor power consumption with the intention of saving energy really should be extremely efficient in itself.
I think this Machine-to-Machine (M2M) communication of home appliances would better use PLC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication instead of wireless for communicating. All of these appliances already need a power plug, so no extra cables are needed. And the wireless communication can be really bad in some houses with thick walls.
I hate signatures
This will ultimately be about control.
The Green Police will monitor your power usage and fine you for "excess". You think cap and trade is only for "greedy corporations"? No no no no no... this will hit consumers even harder. If you have 5 TVs when others only have 2 or 3 and you use 10 kwh per month than the rest of your neighbors, you'll be branded socially irresponsible by government bureaucrats and hauled before some board to explain yourself, before being ordered to cut a check to make amends for your abuse of the planet. Oh, and that extra mini-fridge you have in your home-office, basement, man-cave or garage? That's very anti-Green so it will just have to go.
And Intel is playing along since they can turn a buck on this, but they are being exploited by government as a "useful idiot" to get them what they've been wanting all along.
Does this technology have some good uses? Absolutely! But when placed in the wrong hands, this, like any technology, can and will be used to achieve ulterior motives as well.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Wouldn't it be easier to make the Breaker box smarter and it would KNOW that my Clothes dryer is the high amp draw on circuit 12, the HVAC is the high draw on Circuit 10, the TV is Circuit 15, etc. Even if it can't ID them right away, it could learn the devices by asking you what you just turned on, no need for them all to have smartchips and wifi.
My blender, toaster and can opener all plug in at the same place in the kitchen and have different draw patterns than say the Microwave or the Stove, Oven, Fridge, Dishwasher.
This also overcomes the fact many houses or buildings are multistory and wifi doesn't work well from a central source to all rooms/floors. Yet every room is already Zoned by electrical circuits.
It would make more sense to network the breaker box and monitor each circuit. This could show what each room and each major appliance is consuming.
Another adapter, will the system tell me how much electricity the monitoring system is pulling?
"Ultimately, it's not only about saving money, but also reducing load on the electricity grid by removing needless power use."
Bullshit, ultimately it's about intel finding a technical niche for some bling gadgetry that they can envision selling to most every home in the country if not world, are we so lazy we can't turn off our own TV? Pretty much, who gives a shit how much power the dryer uses? ALOT, mine pops a dedicated 20 amp breaker regularly. I ususally run it just as I'm going to bed so way off of peak hours, just for my convenience really, not due to any conscious effort of when "peak hours" are. We're all getting "smart meters" here in San Diego soon, so you can google your power usage anyway, doesn't that make this tech pretty much moot?
Tweet, tweet, all id10t's out of the gene pool, open swim is over.
I seem to get extra socks out of my dryer. They must be yours. Gimme your address and I'll send them to you.
I control my thermostat, and my life, not the government.
"I did have to give them ability to limit my constitutional rights remotely, however 1) I'm not using them anyway. 2) It's only 6 times near election day."
Why does Intel want to network your clothes dryer?
1) Money
2) Control
That's what drives companies. It's not very complicated.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
So, basically they're working on an advanced (or, if you feel you must call it this way, "overcomplicated") version of MIT's Random Hall Laundry Server? Are we going to see an advanced version of the Bathroom Server next?
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
Um, CFLs have gotten better.
Try to find a 7000K true sunlight full spectrum bulb in 60-100 Watts equivalency that give you a real white light. They have soft white light bulbs that look more like Incandescents you are used to.
They live longer, they use 4x less power, and contain less mercury than the exhaust from the coal burning plant supplying them with power does. The bulbs can be recycled and the mercury from them reused, the mercury and radioactive waste from coal plants just pollutes the air and water.
Most useful would be two buttons on the dryer:
[Run Now] and [Run later when its cheap]
It would be cool if the dryer could talk to your meter to find the rates... or a simple timer would do.
If you are interested in tracking the power usage of appliances via a computer, the open source tweet-a-watt is a nifty project you can build.
http://www.ladyada.net/make/tweetawatt/
Ultimately, it's not only about saving money, but also reducing load on the electricity grid by removing needless power use
Ultimately, it's not only about saving money, but also reducing what little privacy people have in their own homes.
There, fixed that for ya.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I just want my washer to call me on my cell phone when my laundry's done.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This is the sort of feature that should be built into every power using device above a certain size.
There are a lot of things that need to be done carefully with this - security is a big one.
The abililty to monitor individual device power use is as obvious a positive thing as notebook power management to save battery life. Turn off what you're not using, and do it automatically so A) You don't have to waste valuable time and effort thinking about it and B) You become more aware of how much energy each device uses.
As for cost, sure, right now it's too high to be a successful product for the most part. But after a couple generations of development when Intel can supply a single chip solution with per unit costs of less than a dollar, this sort of thing will become ubiquitous and people won't easily remember not having it in every device.
As with any other big-brotherish technology, the threat of control depends on who is doing the controlling. Devices reporting back to Intel what power is used=bad, devices we own telling us the same thing=good.
Why does Intel want to network my clothes dryer? Because they think they can make more money that way. That was easy.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
I did this back in the early 1980's using a Radio Shack TRS-80 model1 and an X10 interface. Power consumption came from the manufacturer's specs, and placed in a lookup table. It had a homemade clock chip which allowed the correct time to be set even if power glitched. Also had a Hayes auto answer modem setup so I could dial my TRS-80 from work and check the status of things or alter the X10 schedule, like "Taking spouse out to dinner after work, so set bedroom air conditioner to come on at 7:30 p.m. instead of 4:00 p.m.". All this running in the background so I could run basic programs at the same time. Wasn't wireless, but I didn't need to run any wires for it - for communication the X10 system sent a carrier on the household AC wiring.
Just sign right up to have all your electricity use monitored and controlled. Just stay being a good little consumer. Don't get a sub panel and start replacing circuits in your home one by one with your own solar power, thereby doing your part in getting economies of scale going and getting prices to drop. That's terrorism! Besides, it "will never work" because they say so, plus many internet experts on various forums sayso, and they know better than you! Keep that centralized grid connection, the one with no long term contract available, the one where the prices go up constantly, the one where some old corporation has already made zillions and will continue to make zillions, and you can never pay it off, no matter how much money you give those guys. If you own anything, it is unAmerican, you must *rent* from your corporate overlords..everything.
While you are at it, trash that desktop and sign up for centralized grid computing/cloud computing, pay an extra fee forever, never have your "apps" paid off and leave all that hard "technical" stuff to "the experts" at computecentral, they are your friends..besides, all that complicated stuff is just too much to figure out, you can't do that, it is too hard, so just rent your computer time, and just rent their wonderful magic boxes that connect you to all their complicated computer stuff. Same with your TV, you just can't be allowed an antenna, why, that's dangerous and complicated! And, you are violating "covenants" and your renter's contracts, you must rent a wire and a magic box from them.
Now get rid of all your furniture and go rent all your furniture. If you own your furniture, oh noes, something might break and you could trip and fall, and you couldn't possibly fix it yourself, that's too hard and complicated for you, the furniture pros are the only ones who can fix furniture. Get rid of your car, then go rent one, I mean, checking your oil?? What's that, you can't figure it out, too hard for you, you need a car expert for that at the car rental place. Same with your bicycle, you couldn't possibly fix a flat or oil a chain. Let the central bicycle fixers do that. Make sure you never buy a house, always be a renter, never an owner.
You see, you are just too simple, owning is "hard work", you can't do it, you just aren't smart enough either, it needs a big corporation to own things, consumers just work for them and consume, that's it. You pay what they say, that's all you can do and should do. And if they say you are using too much of that complicated "lektricity" stuff, well, they are the "experts" and all, you just won't understand all those technical details. If they need to shut you off, well, they know better. Charge you more, well, they just know more than you, because you are just a consumer.
Killawatt anyone?
Screw a buzzer or sound, I want my Washer/Dryer to send me an update to my iPhone when the cycle is done!
Seriously I do.
I made it for my laundromat, I have a prototype now called "Laundromat Watcher" that I made with an Arduino. The idea is that if you have a laundromat that doesn't have the newer ethernet abilities and you want to add it so you can see how much money/usage your laundromat has, when people are using it, etc. you can!
Some example screenshots:
http://dedhamlaundry.com/matwatcher1.PNG
http://dedhamlaundry.com/matwatcher2.PNG
http://dedhamlaundry.com/matwatcher3.PNG
You are afraid because you are a follower.
Obviously your fear isn't well based in reality enough to motivate you to install solar power, geothermal, or wind power on your house to supply all or some of your energy needs, so there must be SOME other reason you are afraid of imaginary boogeymen. Right?
In all honesty, nothing amuses me more than watching someone who is not taking any responsibility for their own life get upset like this. Instead of seeing the obvious solution of being self-sustaining for yourself and taking the initiative to do it, you much prefer sitting back creating nonexistent situations that will upset you.
Oh but you will say its too expensive? Well, I guess you now have an actual number that you will sell out your 'freedom' for, which you were just speaking so highly of. Its your own compromise, so don't run around trying to blame anyone else for it.
Oops, you were looking for someone to enable and validate your victim-hood, weren't you?
The DVR needs to be on 24/7 to get guide data/ keep the channel map up to date / get firmware updates why not just spin down the HDD when not needed. And when it takes a cable box about 2 min to be able to use it and up to 30 min to get guide data back after power lost then you need to keep it on.
The difference between how electricity was used in the 1930s (in the USA) and 1980 is primarily convenience. The TV was instant-on, the refrigerator didn't need any attention to keep things cold and an electric dishwasher ended some more kitchen drudgery. Clocks became electrically powered instead of wind-up. Many "cordless" devices appeared which were constantly plugged in to keep the battery charged for (again) "instant use".
What we are seeing today is that with a rising population and utterly stagnant electric power industry electric power cannot be assumed to be present in unlimited quantities for the homeowner. It was (from 1930 to 1990) pretty much a given that you could use however much electricity you could pay for. Today it needs to be brought home to every person living in the US that this access and reliability is going to cease shortly. You will not have access to all the electricity you can pay for, and it will not be there when you want it.
We can start to turn back the clock on lifestyle - wind-up clocks, plugging things in when they are actually needed to be used and being aware that electric power is an unreliable, unstable thing. It is going to hit some folks pretty hard, but this is the price we are going to be paying for indulging the environmental wackos as we have for the last 40 years or so.
When was the last large-scale power plant built? I don't really know, but it can't have been after 1980. The licensing process for building such a thing today is insane and designed to prevent anything from being built. You can't build power transmission lines because of concerns of electromagnetic radiation and its (supposed) harmful effects.
We can build almost all of the wind turbines we want, and when the wind is blowing power will flow for short distances. The idea of linking up wind power all over the country with a new "Smart Grid" is a hopeless fantasy - there is no area immune to the protests, enviromental impact studies and public comment periods. So no "Smart Grid" will ever be built. Nuclear power generation could greatly reduce the current use of oil and natural gas for electric generation - but all we have built for the last 30 years or so has been "peaker plants" designed to supplement existing generating capacity. Well, in both Illinois and Arizona where I have lived these "peaker plants" were designed to quickly start when needed and turn off when not - but they are all running 100% of the time now. And being enlarged as much as the citizens and licensing will allow.
A possible view is that everyone has their own unstable, unreliable electric generation and no "grid" at all. This is seen as a great boon by many - the result would be that many would simply do without while the upper middle class and wealthy would have whatever they could afford. This wasn't the view of electricification in the 1930's at all - the idea was power for all. Well, maybe that is an idea who's time is ending.
In much of Florida your air conditioner is already "networked" to the power company so they can turn it off remotely when the load requires a cutback. This will certainly be extended to other parts of the country and extended to other major appliances. Your refrigerator will keep food cold all day long without any electricity as long as you don't open the door - so it will likely be shut off as well. Electric dryers, electric hot water heaters and electric heat are likely to be controlled too. What happens if you are home sick? Don't open the refrigerator!!
Intel and other companies will be making products not for the homeowner but for the power company, local government and maybe an "environmental oversight board" to control devices in your home. As the load exceeds the generating capacity we are going to have some hard decisions to make. Since today the factories are mostly gone we have an office by day, home by night distribution of the electric power load. It will be interesting to see what changes get made in homes to allow offices to have the power they need during the day.
Or... "Congratulations on being forward looking enough to supplement your homes power with solar and geothermal power. Feel free to use it however you want. The Smart PERSON"
Last semester, in my Embedded Systems senior design class, one group of 4 students did something very similar to this. It was essentially a wireless, distributed Kill-A-Watt for the home; for each device you want to monitor, you plug it into a small power adapter which then plugs into the wall outlet. These adapters wirelessly transmit power usage statistics to a base station, which connects to your wireless router. Then you can view statistics online, and shut off power to any adapter to "truely" turn off a device. I thought it really improved on the Kill-A-Watt concept and was one of the coolest projects (besides mine, of course; we made a bluetooth-enabled vibrating alarm clock pillow cover). Anyway, here's a link to their website if anyone is interested: http://jeules.org/.
A lot of electric utilities are piloting technology like this as well. Con Edison is doing a small pilot project in Queens, NY.
http://coned.com/publicissues/smartgrid.asp
My clothes dryer is a closet full of Sun servers. No Intel kit in there - ever!
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
3dub.myhouse.huh/dryer
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
Have you ever forgotten some damp or humid clothes in the washer (after washing them) or in the dryer (before drying them)? After a while, they start to smell and need to be washed again. If the dryer starts when electricity is at it's cheapest, it may happen.
Sometimes, my girlfriend will do several laundry loads one after the other. If she had to wait for the dryer to start, it would take forever to do the laundry!
I am for government regulations (I am not American), energy savings and such, but I'll decide when I dry my clothes!
Obviously your fear isn't well based in reality enough to motivate you to install solar power, geothermal, or wind power on your house to supply all or some of your energy needs
Actually, the reason I personally haven't installed solar/geothermal/wind power to my house is simple: they COST TOO FUCKING MUCH to install. At the rate of savings I'd get, it would take me 15 years to break even on the deal - I may not own the house that long. And yes, I've factored in the tax rebates involved.
All this "smart meter" stuff has too much data flowing around, and too much of it is sent out of the home back to organizations which may make dubious use of it.
All that's really needed to level out peaks is to broadcast a few bits of information per hour to interested power-using devices. Here's the California Independent System Operator status page. Down at the bottom is a meter showing how tight the power system is on capacity right now. When that gets into the yellow ranges, clothes dryers and air conditioners need to reduce their power consumption, and if it goes into the red (which is rare), they need to shut down. Electricity rates should go up when the power situation is in the yellow and red.
I don't want ANY of this stuff near my electronics.
Sure, it sounds good to be able to monitor...however, I'm afraid that it might become mandated that everyone would have to have a monitoring device, and the govt gets to tell you when you can do what, and what temp your house can be, etc.
With the feds (and some states) poking their noses into private citizens' lives more and more...I see this as one more thing coming. Hell, sounds like one hell of a rider to attach to the cap and trade bills going through right now.
What does having a mandate that appliances use a maximum of 0.1W have to do with any of that paranoid crap you just spouted?
Next you'll tell us how you've removed the government mandated grounding system from your house, because they use it as a reverse-antenna to beam thought control waves into your house from underground.
Crack, meet pot.
If we want to save power we need to mandate a display in the living room which shows how much power is being used in the house and current electricity price (assuming it's cheaper at night...)
If people could *see* what's going on they'd be a lot more careful about turning lights/PCs off, etc.
No sig today...
You save money on electricity so you can spend more money on the latest Intel chip.
I care not for your karma and your mod points.
The "vampire power" thing is a bit overrated, actually.
No, it isn't.
Switching power supplies, like good quality cell phone chargers and laptop power supplies generally use almost no power when they're not under load. At least, the ones in my house don't. I know this because...
I installed a Brultech ECM-1240 on my house's breaker panel. It has current taps around the main feed, and several other house circuits, like the kitchen outlets, furnace (which also works as my a/c blower in the summer), etc. It sends the data over IP to a low power PC (6W, thanks to a low power CPU and SSD) which stores it in a database and generates graphs you can view in a web browser (unfortunately using a Flash applet).
The software was, to put it mildly, complicated to set up. Seriously. It's not quite a finished product, and it has a few gotchas that prevent it from working until you figure out the mindset of the person who hacked it together. Once it's working, it's pretty neat though.
So, what did I find?
The powered subwoofer in the living room uses 10W when it's in "Standby" mode. It's now wired to a relay connected to my receiver's switched outlet, so it's never on unless the receiver is also on.
The PS3 wakes itself up at all times of the night - oh, you think it's off, but it's nowhere near off. It'll wake up for whatever nefarious reason whenever the hell it wants to and then it stays on until you turn it off again - all the time using about 150W continuously. I wanted to watch Bluray movies, not heat the room all night, thanks. I turn off it's power switch (on the rear of the unit) after I shut it down now.
The Apple TV uses 30W all the time - ok, this is Apple's fault, I think. There's no power switch, and I don't think there's even an option to shut it down. I just unplug it, which is inconvenient since we use the Airtunes function a lot.
I've even found some things that aren't really vampire power, but are what I call bugs and inefficiencies:
The color laser printer upstairs decided one day that sleep mode means "run all your motors and keep the fuser warm for no apparent reason." Averaging about 350W continuously (we don't use the upstairs of the house much, so it went unnoticed until I came home and saw the power usage chart. Reset the printer and all is well so far.
The basement dehumidifier was going through defrost cycles very frequently. You could see them as a sawtooth on top of the main power use graph. I took the machine apart, washed the coils and replaced some insulation that had fallen off one of the refrigerant lines. Power use dropped by about 50W and the defrost cycles happen much further apart.
Anyhow, I guess my main point is that your house is probably full of power wasting appliances, but unless you know what's going on, you'll never find them. Except the laser printer - I heard that one when I went into the room it's in.
You don't need anything as complicated as my setup, just something that will record the power usage (or even just current) coming in on your main power feed. It's really helpful though to know when things are going wrong.
Looking at the graph, I can see big things like the house a/c, the garage door opener, etc., but also small things - in the winter I could see the 8W used by the furnace's gas valve as it cycled the burners on and off, and I can see the 3W from the solenoid valve in the fridge when someone gets a glass of water from the dispenser on the fridge door.
Putting moderation advice in your
Yes, like I stated.... you now know what price you will sell out your freedom of choice for.
Money is the highest priority to you, so don't be surprised with the results that come along with that choice.
How much money is it worth to you to not have an a/c outage during a heat wave?
How much money is it worth to you to not have no lights for days at a time if there is a regional blackout in the grid like the NE USA experienced just a few years ago?
How much money is it worth to you to have refrigeration during extended power outages?
If having numbers in a bank account if worth more to you than all of those things, then that is exactly the choice you made. Let me know how it works out eating money during an extended power outage.
What I'd really care more about the power usage is knowing when the washer or dryer cycle has completed. How about if we network those notifications...
But those numbers in my bank account end up equaling a roof over my head and food on my table. It doesnt matter one bit how short of time I can recoup my investment or how many tax rebates I get if I cannot afford the initial up front payment without losing my mortgage or starving.
I know thats the extreme other end of the argument, but it is a reality for a lot of people.
I fail to see the benefit of this hooking up to a clothing dryer. I mean, you load the dryer then turn it on,it has a timer and when the cycle is done it shuts off. And you dont want to leave wet clothing stand around they tend to get smelly and that defeats the purpose of cleaning the clothing. Theres nothing automatic about a clothing dryer unless you have a way to load it automatically. Even heat and AC, there controlled by a theromstat i dont need intel to shut it off for me and there no reason to monkey around with it while im not home.Same goes for everything else,no need to control something if its turned off when no one is home
Jack of all trades,master of none
I'm sure Intel, et al, are up on Capitol Hill lobbying the public prostitutes to pass laws requiring the monitoring all inputs AND outputs of every US dwelling. Not only to impose usage taxes (Democrat Prostitutes), but also to monitor for illegal / impure activities, such as pron, weed, and thinking critically (Republican Prostitutes).
Call me cynical, but doesn't it seem like most "mandates" don't solve any problem whatsoever, but just serve to take money from pocket A and put it in pocket B?
For all these "conservation" issues, it seems like it really boils down to an existential question... why are we here, what good are people, what's the point, etc.
The reason is that no matter the "mandate" to save, nobody ever tells you how many kids you can have, and there is no denying the fact that more people, no matter how "efficient", consume more than fewer.
If I think the meaning of life is to drive an SUV by myself and leave my incandescent bulbs burning while I am out, am I any worse than a "green" family of 10? Who are you to restrict my religious belief in the God of Consumption?
1. Monitor total power consumption on a second-by-second basis
2. Compare increases and decreases in consumption against a database of consumption fingerprints, to determine which appliances has just turned on or off.
3. Present consumer with a bill that lists which things in their house used what $ and % of their bill.
What aspects of this are not possible? The signal analysis? All homes record how much power they use, I imagine.
The point of the exercise was to reduce power consumption to zero for devices that aren't being actively used.
"Lame" - Galaxar
1. 1.How much money is it worth to you to not have an a/c outage during a heat wave?
Meh. I can rough it for a few days. Handled it well enough during two hurricanes.
2. How much money is it worth to you to not have no lights for days at a time if there is a regional blackout in the grid like the NE USA experienced just a few years ago?
See previous statement. A set of crank flashlights, a battery powered clock radio, some books to read, and I'm ok.
3. How much money is it worth to you to have refrigeration during extended power outages?
Fired up the grill, cooked the perishables, had a block party with the neighbors who were doing the same thing, chatted and socialized. Had canned soup or other nonperishables cooked over an open flame on the grill for a few days, drank a few warm cans of pepsi. I survived.
It amazes me you're so fucking wimpy that you think having your power out now and again is the end of the fucking world.
What about people who rent? They don't have the option of installing solar on the roof.
Geothermal isn't practical (or legal) in all places. Water pollution laws or lack of sufficient groundwater. Clay or other non-sand soils.
Wind has restrictions, in particular from HOAs and other zoning restrictions.
I guess just as much as the average person saves. They can claim that on average you save 15%, but there are 2 kinds of people: does who turn off appliances when not around and those who don't.
The only nice thing about such a system is that it could monitor the power used by appliances while knowing how much electricity goes in the wire from the breaker box and thus prevent fires, as the electricity not going in the appliance is prolly creating heat somewhere in a wall.
15 years is an optimistic interval in my opinion. This is based on current tech that I am aware of.
The power that used to be consumed by your always-slightly-on tv, stereo, playstation, laptop etc, will just go to feed the multiple always-on power monitors and the always-on control box instead. Net savings could be 0 or even negative.
The real answer is to get manufacturers to fit 'proper' power switches to everything like the good ol' days when 'off' really meant 'off'.
Shameless Plug:
My startup Gridspy also helps you to track your power usage, but with a web focus. You can see your power usage online, and the install is simple (you do it at the breaker box) so it doesn't require new appliances.
I've also written about how GridSpy works
I'm more than willing for them to run an ethernet cable to my clothes line.
Don't think it'll reply to a ping though.
A bullet may have your name on it, but artillery is addressed to " Whom It May concern"
It amazes me you're so fucking wimpy that you think having your power out now and again is the end of the fucking world.
No, I said that all of those things are worth more to me than money, not that its the end of the world. But then again, a lot of stuff is worth more to me than money. That wimpy, end of the world concept, was your careful choice of words for whatever reason.
Up until the moment something unprecedented happens to you, by definition it's never happened before. You plan accordingly, based on the past. Like I stated above, a follower. Just like all your neighbors that you willingly admit 'were all doing the same thing'. Great plan you have there.
It is very much the reality for a lot of people, there is no doubt of that.
Do you think the GP is one of them?
The Intel device puts a Zigbee dongle on every powered device, like a clothes dryer, to sense power consumption for reporting back to a PC for display and management.
Those dongles are expensive. The Zigbee part is $10-15 each (wholesale in 1000+ qty), the current sensor is $2-4, the Pic or Arduino microcontroller is $2-5, the relay (dryers are typically 240V@30A=7.2KW) or other power actuator is $5-10; integrating them is at least $5 = $24-39. Even for a $400 dryer that's something like 10% more, breakeven at 80 runs skipped, so probably over 10 years.
For appliances around $100 or less, where savings are less than 7KW per hour skipped, the payback is a lot longer.
If the dongles could cost $5 or less, the payback in a year or so could justify the expense.
Though I don't think Intel is complaining.
--
make install -not war
Great plan you have there.
Hmmm. Given that I didn't have a few dozen grand just burning a hole in my pocket to burn on a system that will eat just as much money in maintenance as it will "save" me generating electricity? FUCK YEAH.
So I laid in supplies before the storms. And I, and my neighbors, had already planned out what to do if/when the power went out. I got a great time hanging out with the neighbors, catching up, relaxing, being sociable (something you are probably unfamiliar with living in your parents' basement for so long). I got to sample half a dozen different dishes from the neighbors, I got to share some of my favorite items to barbecue too.
Was it "unprecedented"? Fuck no. Storms happen. Power's gone out before. One time, it was because a dumbass driving an 18-wheeler took down the main line going into my subdivision. You deal with it. And I'm not being a "follower" just because I don't feel like wasting money on what YOU think everyone should waste money on.
A while ago, I got a free energy monitor from British Gas that has a transmitter that goes around the live wire leaving the mains meter. That model had a option where you could buy additional transmitters that plugs in between the mains socket and the appliance's plug. The transmitter would then measure the consumption of the appliance and transmit it to the energy monitor. The monitor could measure up to 9 separate appliances. Okay, maybe not as good as this thing, but offers similar functionality and is available now. This was a couple years ago though and British Gas don't supply that any more. I found it to be pretty unreliable so I got another one from British Gas, but it only monitors the mains meter, and not any additional transmitters plugged between the mains socket and the appliance.
Found it on Google - here - note "The ability to monitor up to ten separate transmitter systems."
The clever thing is that once Intel's system learns about your habbits, it can recommend optimal new devices to replace your old ones. Any producer of dryers will want to be a recommended by Intel's home optimisation system.
This is new ground for Intel, as they could become more of a datamining platform, like Google. Of course, Google is trying the exact same thing:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/power-to-people.html
So does that mean they will have a special clothes dryer that doesn't do any monitoring when you are using solar power? I think you are the one that needs to wake up.. Got a rain water tank? get ready for the 'precipitation tax' (google it). Plans are already in place to tax the users of alternative energy so as to reimburse kind and caring companies that have gone to all the expense of providing a service to your neighbourhood that you with your anti-green hate mongering intransigence are refusing to use.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Hows that for good timing! Right now, in my area, there are 250,000 people without power as I type this, except me.
MY neighbors who cant afford the same setup(not because they bought a new car on a whim, or other toys for themselves) know that they are welcome in my house anytime. One mother slept here last night with her younger child. There is a second fridge in my garage that is now holding perishable food from 4 other houses. Each person can come and go as they wish, since they all have keys to the place.
Many more will no doubt be over here this afternoon to enjoy the AC when the heat index gets up into the 100's. Each one of them is welcome, and like you said they will return the favor when they can. The power co. reports this morning that the repairs will take WEEKS to restore power to all customers. High temps are expected to be in the mid to upper 90's most of that time. Im sure my elderly neighbor would love your bbq, although Im sure she would much rather live through the next few weeks a little more than that. People DIE when its this hot outside(something you are probably unfamiliar with having lived a sheltered suburban life for so long).
Storms happen, yes. That's EXACTLY why this type of event is planned for, instead of going with the flow and just hoping everything will work out. Ill ask my neighbors if they think it was a 'waste of money' when they are over today. I'm sure they could use a chuckle during this experience.
More than a quarter of a million people without power, some for multiple weeks, is a little more widespread than your subdivision not having power because a truck hit a pole. You aren't going to be able to walk across the street to someone with power, or take a short drive to a nearby store with power in this case.