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USPTO Lets Amazon Patent the "Social Networking System"

theodp writes "After shelling out a reported $90 million to buy PlanetAll in 1998, Amazon shuttered the site in 2000, explaining that 'it seemed really superfluous to have it running beside Friends and Favorites.' But years later in a 2008 patent filing, Amazon described the acquired PlanetAll technology to the USPTO in very Facebook-like terms. And on Tuesday, the USPTO issued US Patent No. 7,739,139 to Amazon for its invention, the Social Networking System, which Amazon describes thusly: 'A networked computer system provides various services for assisting users in locating, and establishing contact relationships with, other users. For example, in one embodiment, users can identify other users based on their affiliations with particular schools or other organizations. The system also provides a mechanism for a user to selectively establish contact relationships or connections with other users, and to grant permissions for such other users to view personal information of the user. The system may also include features for enabling users to identify contacts of their respective contacts. In addition, the system may automatically notify users of personal information updates made by their respective contacts.' So, should Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg worry about Amazon opening a can of patent whup-ass?"

265 comments

  1. Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anonymous Coward likes this

    1. Re:Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon clearly has the rights to this space. Facebook infringed on the patent, and now the rightful owner will step forward and take the just reward. Like how in braveheart the bad guy got to screw mel gibsons wife on their wedding day. It's kind of like that.

    2. Re:Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Like how in braveheart the bad guy got to screw mel gibsons wife on their wedding day. It's kind of like that.

      I thought he was the good guy just exercising his right to lease his intellectual property.

      Mel died in the end which proves my point since hollywood loves a happy ending where the bad guys gets their just punishment.

    3. Re:Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patents are like farms. If aristocrats own all of the farms, and all farm lands, then each person who wants to eat must work for
                                                                            a farm owner because only the farm owner, like only the patent owner, has a monopoly.

      Monopolies make wealthy the owner, but it makes beggars and share croppers of each its prior competitors.
      Without the rule of patent law, monopoly owners would still be competitors and competitors would still be free.
      our society would still be competitive and senmaces (senmace.com) would not own the world.

  2. Not only that- by w00tsauce · · Score: 1

    He's gonna do all that and a bag of chips!

    1. Re:Not only that- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      He's going to do a bag of chips? With all those friends you'd think he'd be able to find at least one girl to do.

    2. Re:Not only that- by w00tsauce · · Score: 1

      lol, I guess nobody here remembers 90s slang.

    3. Re:Not only that- by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Let me guess: you're ciced because this is some tight news, young.

      I remember:-)

    4. Re:Not only that- by w00tsauce · · Score: 1

      thats da bomb

    5. Re:Not only that- by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      Uh..."ciced" is meant to be "psyched" I suppose?

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    6. Re:Not only that- by Pojut · · Score: 1

      nope...90's slang.

      "Cised" (I spelled it wrong in my original post) has its origins from the word "Excited". I'm not sure how you would spell it phonetically, but listen to how you pronounce the word "excited", drop the "ex" part, and I think you will have an idea of how "cised" is pronounced :-)

      Or, for more info, check here

    7. Re:Not only that- by losfromla · · Score: 1

      uh, I was there, we pronounced it siked (long i, short e), kind of like psyched, I guess. It was more 80's slang. What part of Taiwan were you in when you were learning 80's US slang in the 90's?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    8. Re:Not only that- by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Psyched and ciced are two different things. They are both entirely different words, although their definitions are the same.

    9. Re:Not only that- by losfromla · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I call bullshit. Just cause some moron writes some asinine definition on "Urban Dictionary" doesn't mean it is true. Again, what part of Taiwan were you in when you learned or heard of *lol* "ciced"?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    10. Re:Not only that- by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Well, high school, for starters. (I graduated in 2002) Also, a LOT of people that were in other grades said it too. It's possible that it's regional slang, only used around here (DC/Metro area), but whether that is the case or not...why would I lie about a freakin' slang word???

    11. Re:Not only that- by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I don't know, cause it's what argumentative nerds do? You're probably right, it is regional. Maybe took ten years to go over to the east coast and by then had been perverted to this absurd "ciced" (pronounced cited)? We were using "psyched" in the 80's and I never came across "cyced", not even on TV, I doubt it went any further than the DC/Metro area. Good, let it die. Speak no more of it please.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    12. Re:Not only that- by Pojut · · Score: 1

      I don't know, cause it's what argumentative nerds do?

      Yes. Yes we do :-)

      (pronounced cited)?

      Here you go...just as I suspected, local to the area. I was unaware that, according to the page I just linked to, it originated in the 80's...but I'm not that surprised. In case you don't want to click that link, you would pronounce both "c"s as if they were an S.

      Good, let it die. Speak no more of it please.

      Hey, I'm with you man...that shit annoyed me whenever anyone said it, (and it still does on the rare occasion someone says it). It just seemed topical, since we were discussing slang.

  3. Patent Trolling by TheGeniusIsOut · · Score: 4, Funny

    1) Buy company that "invents" un-patented technology everyone is using.
    2) Patent said technology yourself, because the USPTO can't be bothered to actually think about what they are doing.
    3) Wait for the other users of "your" technology to make a substantial amount of money.
    4) Profit!

    --
    Ignorance is Bliss -- And the Opposite is True -- Genius is Madness
    1. Re:Patent Trolling by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      It looks like the buyout by Amazon does predate Friendster and MySpace... though to be honest, there's no way in hell this should pass any "obvious" test.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:Patent Trolling by TheGeniusIsOut · · Score: 5, Informative

      It looks like the buyout by Amazon does predate Friendster and MySpace... though to be honest, there's no way in hell this should pass any "obvious" test.

      That may well be true, but, the website based social networking sites are far from the first to utilize this "technology"

      'A networked computer system provides various services for assisting users in locating, and establishing contact relationships with, other users. For example, in one embodiment, users can identify other users based on their affiliations with particular schools or other organizations. The system also provides a mechanism for a user to selectively establish contact relationships or connections with other users, and to grant permissions for such other users to view personal information of the user. The system may also include features for enabling users to identify contacts of their respective contacts. In addition, the system may automatically notify users of personal information updates made by their respective contacts.'

      This has a very strong similarity to "elite" status granted to users of old school dial up BBSs for uploading or otherwise providing coveted data or services. Such similar systems were even loosely in place within AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, and other dial-up ISPs long before 1998. Even forum profiles could conceivably fall into this category.

      --
      Ignorance is Bliss -- And the Opposite is True -- Genius is Madness
    3. Re:Patent Trolling by coastwalker · · Score: 1, Troll

      Death is too good for them.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    4. Re:Patent Trolling by decula03 · · Score: 1

      I can't believe you like money too. We should hang out.

    5. Re:Patent Trolling by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's why they're in patent trolling instead.

    6. Re:Patent Trolling by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It looks like the buyout by Amazon does predate Friendster and MySpace... though to be honest, there's no way in hell this should pass any "obvious" test.

      None of that matters. They didn't file until 2008. Therefore... anything existing before 2008 is prior art.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    7. Re:Patent Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that's completely wrong. The Date of Invention is the earliest of 3 dates: the date of public disclosure, the earliest date of *continuous* development before the date of file, or the date of file.

      So, yes, obviousness does matter in this case, as does the DoI.

      WIth such esteem that they proclaim they have, you would think that Slashdotters would actually do the research they make fun of journalists for not doing, but no....

    8. Re:Patent Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what country you're in... but we're talking about the US... and so therefore, you're wrong.

    9. Re:Patent Trolling by adf92343414 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Bzzt! Wrong. From http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#novelty :

      In order for an invention to be patentable it must be new as defined in the patent law, which provides that an invention cannot be patented if: "(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent," or "(b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country more than one year prior to the application for patent in the United States . . ."

      If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere in the world, or if it was known or used by others in this country before the date that the applicant made his/her invention, a patent cannot be obtained. If the invention has been described in a printed publication anywhere, or has been in public use or on sale in this country more than one year before the date on which an application for patent is filed in this country, a patent cannot be obtained. In this connection it is immaterial when the invention was made, or whether the printed publication or public use was by the inventor himself/herself or by someone else. If the inventor describes the invention in a printed publication or uses the invention publicly, or places it on sale, he/she must apply for a patent before one year has gone by, otherwise any right to a patent will be lost. The inventor must file on the date of public use or disclosure, however, in order to preserve patent rights in many foreign countries.

      Even if the subject matter sought to be patented is not exactly shown by the prior art, and involves one or more differences over the most nearly similar thing already known, a patent may still be refused if the differences would be obvious. The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one color for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.

      But hey, feel free to go ahead and make stuff up about continuous development - that'll get you an upmod, despite it being hogwash. Not that GP was completely correct - there's that one year window where somebody else can describe / publish an invention that you have been working on but haven't filed a patent for. If you can file within the year and prove you started inventing it before the other person, then you have a chance of a valid patent. But after the one year window, it doesn't matter when you started working on your invention.

      #include "ianal.h"

    10. Re:Patent Trolling by sortius_nod · · Score: 1

      This has a very strong similarity to "elite" status granted to users of old school dial up BBSs for uploading or otherwise providing coveted data or services. Such similar systems were even loosely in place within AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, and other dial-up ISPs long before 1998. Even forum profiles could conceivably fall into this category.

      That's exactly what I was thinking. Some of the old forums I used to run we developed "social networking" features on them. This whole patent trolling crap just makes me feel that patents should be dispensed with and business should rely on the quality of their product rather than suing anyone who creates something similar.

      Unfortunately the people with power are the patent trolls, so that'll never happen.

    11. Re:Patent Trolling by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      This clearly falls into the Previous Use category. The usenet, for example, or DEC Notes are all examples where that "technology" was used. Even physical bulletin boards are examples. You've got to ask yourself what's up at the USPTO when they allow patents like this.

    12. Re:Patent Trolling by rtfa-troll · · Score: 4, Informative

      This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369).

      A continuation application gets the same precedence date as the original patent but validity time from the date of acceptance. The Wikipedia article referenced, whilst lacking some citations seems to be correct (at least it's current version) as you can verify against the the Patent office FAQ

      This is an extremely evil patent.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    13. Re:Patent Trolling by harley78 · · Score: 1

      The Sierra Network.

    14. Re:Patent Trolling by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Does it predate the services on AIM and ICQ that let you search for people?

      I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

      Actually, in a way, doesn't finger+whois+nslookup on UNIX provide that functionality (albeit in a user-unfriendly way).

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    15. Re:Patent Trolling by ragefan · · Score: 1

      But does it predate Six Degrees. I remember using this service in the mid-90s.

    16. Re:Patent Trolling by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was thinking of the original "walled garden" ISPs like AOL and Compuserve. I don't see any way that Amazon could hope to defend such a broad patent when the earliest "social network" I can remember joining was "Quantum-Link" (proto-AOL) on my Commodore 64-C in the late 80's.
        Granted, it wasn't the Internet, but I don't see where the patent specifies "Internet", merely "network". Q-Link was clearly a network.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    17. Re:Patent Trolling by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      It looks like the buyout by Amazon does predate Friendster and MySpace... though to be honest, there's no way in hell this should pass any "obvious" test.

      None of that matters. They didn't file until 2008. Therefore... anything existing before 2008 is prior art.

      No, they filed in November of 1997. You have to follow the continuity chain back. In this case, the application claims priority of a filing back then. Anything existing after 1997 is not "prior" art.

    18. Re:Patent Trolling by tater86 · · Score: 1

      You are correct about the 1 year window, but in this case, the application is a chain of continuations and divisionals, so the US filing date is November 2, 1997.

    19. Re:Patent Trolling by thijsh · · Score: 1

      Didn't Amazon use to make money selling dead trees and other stuff online? What happened?

      1) Amazon sell all sorts of crap online...
      2) ???
      3) Amazon is a patent troll.
      4) Profit!

    20. Re:Patent Trolling by DIplomatic · · Score: 1

      1) Buy company that "invents" un-patented technology everyone is using. 2) Patent said technology yourself, because the USPTO can't be bothered to actually think about what they are doing. 3) Wait for the other users of "your" technology to make a substantial amount of money. 4) Profit!

      That is far too complicated.
      1) Buy company who owns patent on obvious technology many companies are using.
      2) Sue and Profit!

      Patent pending on "Sarcastic comments made on an internet forum technology."

    21. Re:Patent Trolling by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Personally, I don't think I've seen anything in the past 20 years that's deserving of a patent (regarding software patents), even so I don't think that more than 5 years protection on software is relevant today.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  4. prior art by sugarmatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My company in the mid 90's had an online resume system for internal postings that allowed people to post resumes anonymously, and hiring managers could share postings and information selectively based on whatever criteria they wanted, effectively filtering job seekers.

    This is prior art.

    1. Re:prior art by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 0

      That's networking, not social networking.

      NEXT!

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    2. Re:prior art by trentblase · · Score: 1

      Sounds like someone didn't RTFC(laims)

    3. Re:prior art by Pojut · · Score: 1

      You gotta know what a crumpet is, to understand Cricket!

    4. Re:prior art by Antony+T+Curtis · · Score: 0, Redundant

      My company in the late 80's had an online resume system that allowed people to post resumes anonymously, and hiring managers could be notified when their selection criteria was met by someone's posting.

      We ran it on the cutting edge PC hardware of the era... It ran on a 10 MHz 80286 ELONEX PC, 640K RAM with a 20MB hard disk, 8 RS232 ports, connected to some 2400 baud modems.

      Somewhere, I have kept the three 5 1/4" floppy disks which contain all the source code to the system.

      Alas, it didn't take off because our customer base balked at the price of buying a modem.

      --
      No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
    5. Re:prior art by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hate to point out the obvious, but slashdot, relationships, journal, submit a story, karma, comment response emails, basically describes the principles of this patent. Perhaps the patent filers aren't low ID types and don't realise how long it has been around.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:Prior Art by fishexe · · Score: 1

      How long has 411 been using a networked computer system?

      What's the 411?

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    7. Re:prior art by dredwerker · · Score: 1

      You gotta know what a crumpet is, to understand Cricket!

      I well know what "crumpet" is and what "a crumpet" is, I even know how to play cricket. I still dont "understand cricket".

      --
      On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
    8. Re:prior art by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK, I was a member of Quantum Link, a Commodore 64 and 128 super-BBS which was the predecessor of AOL. It was founded in 1985, had hundred of thousands of members, and they could search for each other based on profiles and information contained therein. We could chat, send each other messages, even play cooperative games. It may have been a little to simplistic to fully qualify as "prior art", but certainly by the early 90's after it had morphed into AOL, and started allowing non-Commodore computers in, it did everything described.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    9. Re:prior art by shentino · · Score: 1

      *whoosh*

  5. General SNS Definition by Rotworm · · Score: 1

    There must be examples of prior art of SNS. Wouldn't ICQ fall under the terms of that description? SMS?

    1. Re:General SNS Definition by Plekto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Prior Art can be found going back as early as the 1970s:

      ***grabbed this from wikipedia**
      The first public dial-up Bulletin Board System was developed by Ward Christensen. According to an early interview, while he was snowed in during the Great Blizzard of 1978 in Chicago, Christensen along with fellow hobbyist Randy Suess, began preliminary work on the Computerized Bulletin Board System, or CBBS. CBBS went online on February 16, 1978 in Chicago, Illinois. [2]
      **

      If he's talking about the Internet, though, that award goes to VMS Notes - (don't have exact date - early to mid 1980s), which functioned similar to a stripped-down version of Usenet, but in a live chat manner.

    2. Re:General SNS Definition by Plekto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      (Sorry for the double-post, but perhaps this can help some smart lawyer to help get this inane patent revoked)

      A more in-depth explanation of VMS Net and VMS is required:
      - The original intent was to create a version of an early Internet by linking VMS machines/clusters together like a super BBS. Eventually that fell away to where by the mid 80s or so, standard Internet/TCP IP/etc protocols had taken over and were being used. What it meant was that any university or major corporation that allowed access could link their machines to others and create a "web" of sites. These universities and corporations/government sites were the major original backbone of the Internet, so by definition it "used the Internet".

      - How this worked in practice when I was at college in 1991 and first saw it(it had been implemented a year or two earlier, IIRC) was that each user had a space where they could program and make their own home page/space to use. Almost everyone had ASCII BBS type front-ends, complete with links, menus, and personal areas. This was a few years before the first web browsers came out, but functionally identical.

      - The VMS link/Notes system usually was organized by areas, so that it was common to see a smaller discussion area devoted to each person. (in addition to the normal BBS/board type chat areas. So this was where everyone talked about their life, and so on, a lot like Facebook. You usually linked to your account's main page so that others could see and go there as well. (It was less thread driven and more topic driven by nature) ie - Ed's Corner/Life with Sandy/and so on... The admin found it easier to keep personal stuff limited to each main person/give them their own thread.

      - There also was a live chat option as well. I remember getting online, checking out people's "pages" and so on when I was in Northern California for people who were in San Diego. And then logging into their local chat area and talking to them. In 1991.

      Nothing really like it existed until much later, though, and so it's highly likely that nobody at these newer companies realized that a nearly identical thing to Facebook/etc existed that long ago on the Internet.(and of course BBS systems, but those technically didn't use the "Internet" until much later.(still early 90s - way before this patent's time-frame.)

    3. Re:General SNS Definition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      All together now: "To a first approximation, the only thing that matters in a patent are the claims. The title means nothing."

      To my knowledge no BBS implemented the claims contained in the patent.

    4. Re:General SNS Definition by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      You quote "the Internet" several times, but the abstract only says a "network". By definition a "network" is merely two or more computer systems talking to each other. Any BBS or old style pre-internet "Online Service" should qualify.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    5. Re:General SNS Definition by Plekto · · Score: 1

      True, but I mentioned this because while the founder of the original BBS probably never patented his "invention", you can be sure that DEC(later HP who bought Compaq out) holds a patent on this technology somewhere in their portfolio. It would be simple enough to for them provide proof that it was used as social networking similar to a BBS. And it did use the actual "Internet", in case they claim that a bunch of phones calling into a single server isn't a "network" in a normal sense.

      I actually have physical proof from 1992/93 showing this, since I never throw out any of my old data, email, and logs. Some goes back to 1990, in fact - way before anything was archived online. I took a snapshot of my account when I left the university I was at. Pretty standard for us older computer guys to do with our personal data. I still have the files, though of course there's no VMS system that I know of operating that I can put it on. But it is in simple ASCII format, so it's pretty easy to read and figure out(whole thing takes 2-3MB, so why NOT keep it for nostalgia?)

      Some guy who ran a BBS doesn't have the funds to fight this. But HP does. Now, of course, what it would mean is that HP would own this patent. That might be just as bad, depending upon what they do with it. But at least this might slow down the patent trolling and idiocy a little bit if they start finding themselves doing all the work only to have to repeatedly hand the patents over to these older companies.

      To be honest, I'd not dare "patent" anything in such vague terms considering what an enormous chaotic mess computing was in the 70s and 80s before there were online records of it all. Someone did what you are thinking about doing or are doing long long ago and it's only a matter of time before they figure it out. Just because your lawyers can't find anything online doesn't mean it never happened. Most of the time, the company is dead and gone, so you're fairly safe. Something like this, with the headlines it is generating, is sure to get HP to notice. And last I checked, yeah, they're still in business. Oops.

    6. Re:General SNS Definition by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Actually, it doesn't work like that (or rather, it normally doesn't). While technically HP could sue to have the patent reassigned to them, I've never heard of that being done. What's more common is for the current patent holder (Amazon) to sue an infringing party (say, Facebook) to either make them cease and desist use of the patented technology or pay whatever license fees the holder wishes. In our hypothetical case Facebook could then defend themselves by either proving that they not infringing the patent (our service doesn't do what the patent covers), or by getting the court to invalidate the patent. This is usually where "Prior Art" enter the picture. One of the ways to prove a patent is in valid is to prove that someone else already did it, or did something so close as to be indistinguishable.

      In this case, Facebook would simply have to bring up any (or all) of the many previous versions of "social networking" that did things similar to what Amazon has patented. Assuming the courts bought this argument, HP wouldn't "get" the patent, it would simply cease to be a valid patent at all. To me it seem pretty obvious most or all of this stuff had been done prior to 1998, often in the same places; but I'm not a judge or even a lawyer. That's the problem with a "Prior Art" or "Obviousness" argument to invalidate a patent, if the judge or jury disagree that what you present as "Prior Art" actually is the same thing, you don't win.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    7. Re:General SNS Definition by Plekto · · Score: 1

      Of course, you're not thinking that one step further here. :) The first thing that happens once it has been invalidated is HP will apply for the exact or nearly exact same patent. HP essentially gets the same patent for free/does a huge in-your-face to Amazon. IIRC, I don't think there were any patents for IP concerning BBSs and the like back issued in the 80s. First off, nobody did it as the concept of IP in today's context was silly to them(or just plain unknown legally), and secondly, they were a bunch of geeks and nerds having fun using other people's technology.

      But Digital/DEC certainly did take networking and the like seriously. I am 100% certain DEC patented everything it touched. Maybe they're not the first example, but they are the first patented, done by a major corporation for commercial purposes example that I know of.

      *who knew that a bonus feature they added(and thought of as almost a gimmick) to help corporations exchange information and chat between servers a bit easier would turn into something like Facebook 30 years later?

  6. It's not just a bad patent system by jmerlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it appears that the declining quality of education in this country is reaching all the way to the patent registrars themselves. What a fine example of stupidity and.. dare I say.. incredible ignorance we have here. Honestly, who the hell hasn't heard of Facebook? Where do they find these people?

    1. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by skine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Facebook came afterward, then Facebook is not prior art.

      More importantly, the USPTO seems to allow patents on whatever hasn't been patented before, regardless of whether it should be patented.

      Honestly, I don't think this is the failure of the registrars, but a serious defect in the system that such a simple idea as social networking is patentable.

    2. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by rollingcalf · · Score: 0

      "If Facebook came afterward, then Facebook is not prior art."

      The patent was Filed in 2008. Facebook was up and running years before that.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    3. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by trentblase · · Score: 1
      It appears that the declining quality of education in this country also failed to teach you that patents aren't registered

      It also appears that you have failed to learn that 2004 (the year facebook was launched) > 1998 (the date of the application to which this application claims priority)

    4. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Qzukk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If Facebook came afterward, then Facebook is not prior art.

      The patent was filed in 2008. It literally looks like something that might have been written in 2000 and sat around in the bottom of a desk drawer for years before someone found it and mailed it in. Hell, it cites Palm Pilot, Lotus Notes, and the Internet White Pages as prior art, and nothing since!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by tkohler · · Score: 2, Informative

      It appears that you have failed law school or at least the part of the patent bar that recognizes that the first effective filing date of this patent is 2 Nov 1997. "RELATED APPLICATIONS This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369). "

    6. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by lalena · · Score: 1

      This Amazon patent cited other Amazon patents going back to 1997 (filing date) - approved 2001: 6175831
      Abstract: A networking database containing a plurality of records for different individuals in which individuals are connected to one another in the database by defined relationships. Each individual has the opportunity to define the relationship which may be confirmed or denied. E-mail messaging and interactive communication between individuals and a database service provider provide a method of constructing the database. The method includes having a registered individual identify further individuals and define therewith a relationship. The further individuals then, in turn, establish their own defined relationships with still other individuals. The defined relationships are mutually defined.
      I also found this patent reference very odd: 5263160
      Abstract: Augmented doubly-linked list search and management method for a system having data stored in a list of data elements in memory

    7. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      It appears that the declining quality of education in this country has failed to teach you the concept of synonyms. This patent application was filed in 2008, that it took 10 years to be filed with ample demonstration that the technology in question is highly successful and lucrative should be grounds for rejection per se.

    8. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by trentblase · · Score: 1

      More like I failed my typing test and fat-fingered a 7 into an 8. However, as 1997 is even earlier than 1998, the typo does not change the analysis.

    9. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by trentblase · · Score: 1

      If your talk about synonyms is implying that registration is that same as examination, then you are simply wrong. In the context of intellectual property, examination includes substantive review while registration does not. Even in plain English, I find it dubious that registration is a synonym for examination.

      You are entitled to your own views of whether extended prosecution should be grounds for rejection, but as the law stands, it is not.

    10. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      If Facebook came afterward, then Facebook is not prior art.

      1) Facebook existed prior to the 2008 filing.

      2) ideas aren't patentable - or shouldn't be.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    11. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by treeves · · Score: 1

      That's a big "or".

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    12. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by fishexe · · Score: 1

      it appears that the declining quality of education in this country is reaching all the way to the patent registrars themselves.

      Yes, it's been quite some time since patent offices could attract the Einsteins of the world.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    13. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by NekSnappa · · Score: 1

      Leave my mother out of this!

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    14. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by glwtta · · Score: 1

      What a fine example of stupidity and.. dare I say.. incredible ignorance we have here. Honestly, who the hell hasn't heard of Facebook?

      Are there really people naive enough to believe that these patents are granted through some personal failing of the examiners?

      Think of it this way: are there any incentives for the USPTO to only grant patents which fit your criteria of what a "good patent" should be?

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    15. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, I remember facebook back in 1997. How could we forget. Yes, those patent examiners with advanced science and engineering degrees from top schools are all idiots. They obviously don't know the rules.

      I love how the jackasses come out of the woodwork on /. whenever patents are mentioned. You should take some time and try to learn something about the patent system.

      it appears that the declining quality of education in this country is reaching all the way to the patent registrars themselves. What a fine example of stupidity and.. dare I say.. incredible ignorance we have here. Honestly, who the hell hasn't heard of Facebook? Where do they find these people?

    16. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Nikker · · Score: 1

      The don't patent just anything that hasn't been patented just patent anything from those with the most money, work the details out in the court room.

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    17. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      The personal failing of the examiners, no. The collective failure of a chain of people who are supposed to uphold patent law where clearly prior art exists, and yet not one of them could produce one piece of evidence of it? Only a fundamental level of stupidity can be to blame for this. These people shouldn't be examining patent applications. If you can't even comprehend the patent, or the legalese in which it's written, you shouldn't be working there.

      And as for an incentive: if they do it right the first time, we won't have to waste the time of the courts paid for by tax dollars with frivolous patent litigation down the road when a patent like this is inevitably used in what can only be described as extortion.

    18. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by deblau · · Score: 3, Informative

      The application was filed in 2008, true. But look! Here's another patent with essentially the same disclosure (different claims) that was filed in 1997! Magic!!

      Amazon went back and looked at their old technology, thought about it a bit, and realized that they had already all the core components of Facebook, they just hadn't realized it as such. And in the US system, even if you didn't realize it at the time, as long as you disclosed it you win.

      This kind of nonsense can be stopped if you tell applicants that they have to claim everything they're going to claim in their first application (keep divisionals based on restriction requirements but otherwise curtail continuation and CIP practice, to be technical). This is not a theoretical argument, either: Europe has just recently adopted a system like this, major pieces go into effect on October 1. See this PDF for more information. Executive summary of the European system: your invention is locked down two years after the first time the patent office sends you a letter. You don't get to go back 10 years later claiming you invented Google or something.

      --
      This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
    19. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not stupidity, it's greed and corruption. Patent Office higher-ups get paid for patents they pass. Obviously they'll pass as many as they can to get more money.

      Wouldn't be surprised if there was the occasional cocaine-coated hooker involved. Government agencies seem to really love those.

    20. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Look, these people are lawyers who are not good enough to make money as normal lawyers. Their salary sucks, their jobs suck, but they still stay there and do that job instead of making bazillions in civil cases. That alone should speak lengths about their qualifications.

      They don't find these people. These people come to them as last resort because they were too poor at everything else.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    21. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Don't ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity/incompetence.

      Have a closer look at a typical patent examiner.

      He finished Law.

      He's the guy who partied all night throughout most of the studies. He'd not pass most of the tests. But he lucked out at cheating in few, pawned his car in to join the extra (paid) course the proffessor said is necessary to pass (then didn't show even once, but the money were paid). He copied your answers from your sheet on the final exam. He finished the studies with lowest grades in the class.

      Then he tried to get work at several lawyer agencies. He was accepted for internship then fired a month later for incompetence. He tried working as a public attorney but after the first few cases nobody would choose him due to horrible track record. He tried to make his living giving legal advice, but once his advice landed a significant gang member in prison, and the gang leader told him he'll cut his tongue off if he ever tries to give a legal advice to someone. And meant it.

      And then as his bills start to pile up, he takes the desperate step: patent examiner at USPTO.

      So he comes to work. He picks up a pile of patents with titles that contain the same words as title of the one he has to examine. He looks at the titles. If any is a different wording of the same name, he denies the patent. Otherwise he accepts it. Then he drinks coffee for the rest of afternoon pretending he checks online for prior art, while in fact chatting with girls in a chatroom. That's it.

      He's not smart, he's not responsible, he's not hard-working. It's a fluke he finished the studies, but the fluke didn't repeat and he didn't get a job as a lawyer. That's the kind of people that join USPTO.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    22. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's patent declining education, and charge royalties!

      That should put a stop to it...

    23. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      If you check their job listings, their salaries start at the high-60k range and go on up from there. Hardly "suck". I have a friend who works there and has two Mercedes and a BMW. I don't want to hear it about their pay sucking.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    24. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      If you work at USPTO why bother searching prior art? Just take the money and let them patent everything. (And at the end of the day go drink a beer with your lawyer friend).

    25. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      What? It cites prior art itself? How does that not equal auto-invalidation?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    26. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      The "Prior art" section of a patent requires you to disclose things that already exist that are similar to what you're patenting, and how your patent is better.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    27. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That story may be true but those are just the examiners, the low-level drones, those who get hired by the ones with malice. The latter being the ones who want as many patents to pass as possible for their own gain (hookers and bribes from corporate "friends" and lawyers, bonuses for outstanding performance because under his rule the office issued 20% more patents, etc.).

    28. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All members of the patent bar are both lawyers and experts in their field (i.e. possessing graduate degrees in their field.)

      USPTO examiners are overworked - 4 to 5 years is a typical time frame from initial filing to granting of a patent due to the enormous backlog - and under pressure to grant patents.

      There's definitely a problem of incentives - i.e. no disincentive to granting patents and letting the courts sort out validity of claims later - but USPTO examiners are not stupid or poor students.

    29. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by losfromla · · Score: 1

      so, their pay sucks, and they get free cars as bonuses for patents approved? Is it by volume or do specifically asinine patents approved get one the bonuses depending on how grateful the customer can be?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    30. Re:It's not just a bad patent system by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      He said his position is salary only, at the standard governmental pay class for his schedule. He doesn't get bonuses of any sort. He said the only people that get bonuses, are those in charge of their specific patent branches. AKA, those who give "Final Approval". He just does grunt work.

      Hey, they are always looking for Engineers (double points for any law experience!) of practically any sort. You have the qualifications, go work there, make their money. Be warned, he said some of the biggest assholes you could ever meet are in there, and that one patent group manager is always trying to one-up the others (because those guys are the career PHBs and not actual engineer/law/etc guys). That is in combination with silly amounts of red-tape. Example: Having to submit formal requests for information via paper form, from other "patent officers" in other "fields", and some of them, being the assholes they are, making you wait for weeks on a response.

      He's one of the guys who reviews patents that are challenged after they've already been granted, and the proper forms have been submitted, etc, etc, etc. His workload is way worse than examiners of origin. He gets one month to review evidence, and do further searching for information that the original officers had a few years to do to begin with.

      He puts in 12-16 hour days, every Mon-Fri.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
  7. Fucking lame! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Constructive, eh?(c)(p)

    Can someone please put an end to this constant stream of approval diarrhea pouring out of the USPTO?

    1. Re:Fucking lame! by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Can someone please put an end to this constant stream of approval diarrhea pouring out of the USPTO?

      No.

      (The proof is trivial: This situation is a gold mine for lawyers. Most members of the US Congress are lawyers. They may not understand technology, but they do understand the effect of patent law on lawyers' income. Ergo, the current mess that is US patent and copyright law won't be ended. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  8. Love it! by portrman · · Score: 4, Funny

    I love this, I hope Amazon tries to sue every Social Networking like site out there! Then we can watch it crash and burn. Most likely, they'll just hold on to it and claim it's value. Possible go after small dogs to gain a few pennies. But I'd love to see them try to hit up Microsoft/Google/MySpace/Facebook and probably several dozen other sites.

    1. Re:Love it! by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most likely, they'll just hold on to it and claim it's value.

      No, they'll hold onto it for cross-licensing purposes. The next time a business operating a service that vaguely qualifies as social networking tries to sue Amazon, Amazon plays this card. That's what patents mean to companies like Amazon: they're playing cards in a hand to prevent losing an expensive game. In a pinch Amazon could use it to extract licensing fees, but that's probably not their immediate intent.

    2. Re:Love it! by mandelbr0t · · Score: 1

      Richard Stallman explains the practical ideology behind software patents. Parent states the gist of how it works.

      --
      "Please describe the scientific nature of the 'whammy'" - Agent Scully
    3. Re:Love it! by babybird · · Score: 1

      But don't you have to actively defend your patent or you lose the right to? You can't just let some people get away with "stealing" it and not others. Or can you? :(

      --
      Keith D.
  9. If Zuck isn't worried, he should be. by keirre23hu · · Score: 1

    Bezos has shown he will apply the patents whenever he thinks it benefits Amazon, having a taste of FB's profits would definitely benefit Amazon in a very big way. There really needs to be something done about the way that patents are being awarded for things that it seems obviously are outside the scope of the patent examiners. If the problem isn't the examiners, then the process definitely needs to be looked at. For all of the skepticism I've heard about some of the referred journals and conferences in computer science and related fields, it seems more difficult to publish there than to get a patent. That's not saying too much having read some pretty badly written published research. At least tech patents could expire on a pretty quick timeline if they are going to allow people to patent everything under the sun from ideas to genetic sequences. I'd love to hear the examiner(s) for this patent speak their case.

  10. Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by rollingcalf · · Score: 0

    The damn patent reads like a high level specification of Facebook, and Facebook already had tens of millions of users in 2008. This is new heights of idiocy at the USPTO.

    --
    ---------
    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  11. Fuck the USPTO by MRe_nl · · Score: 0, Troll
    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  12. Prior art? by nebaz · · Score: 1

    I worked for a start-up in the .com boom whose selling point was "self updating address book". It consisted of a web app PIM suite (email, calendar, chat, address book, etc) where each field displayed was available for access to "friends" etc. This was 1999. The original patent filing date looks like 1997 though, so is that prior art, and if not, why is a patent whose filing date was 1997 finally granted now?

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    1. Re:Prior art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least it is only valid until 2017

    2. Re:Prior art? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      why is a patent whose filing date was 1997 finally granted now?

      Dude, it took them 13 years to thorougly check for prior art. Oh, wait.

    3. Re:Prior art? by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Yea, the horror of patent continuations!

    4. Re:Prior art? by yuhong · · Score: 2, Funny

      The original patent filing date looks like 1997 though, so is that prior art

      No, I don't think so.

    5. Re:Prior art? by tsm_sf · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here's an interesting article on patent continuation abuse, hot off a google. No idea how accurate it is, but worth reading.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
  13. Unbelievable by bteed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't even completely fault Amazon for this, the system is so broken that a company needs its own patent arsenal to defend itself from trolls. This one is really egregious, though.

  14. Friendster? by ldapboy · · Score: 1

    I heard that Friendster also managed to get a patent on social networking.

    1. Re:Friendster? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Four patents.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  15. The end does not equal the means by Bryansix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The part of the patent posted in the article looks like the end. That's like patenting a Bicycle by saying it's a device with two wheels and some pedels which you can power to transport you places. Obviously that kind of patent would make not sense and there can be an infinite amount of bicycle designs which acheive the same goal but don't copy each other or rip each other off. In this case I highly doubt that Facebook actually took any code or even any major functionality from PlanetAll. I mean that's giving Facebook way too much credit. Basically Facebook was a dead technology until they went and merged a hack of Twitter's timeline in with their social networking system. Until they did that they didn't stand out from the pack at all.

    1. Re:The end does not equal the means by Microlith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Filing extensions. It's how more than a few patent trolls managed to set their patents up, by continually filing extensions and amending them to better line up with where technology was going already then dropping them like bombs on anyone that came along.

    2. Re:The end does not equal the means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369).

      Sing with me! o/~ We all live in a patent submarine, a patent submarine...

  16. The USPTO Itself Has a Facebook Page. Bizarre! by Ron+Bennett · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even the USPTO has its own Facebook page. Bizarre!

    http://www.facebook.com/uspto.gov

    Why does the USPTO need that when their own website is sufficient for posting information...

    Or is social networking how the USPTO decides applications now ... get enough "Likes" and you're approved ;)

    Ron

    1. Re:The USPTO Itself Has a Facebook Page. Bizarre! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets all become Fan's of uspto.gov's Facebook page and comment under every posting "REPEAL SOFTWARE PATENTS". Come on, you all know you have a FB page.

    2. Re:The USPTO Itself Has a Facebook Page. Bizarre! by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Even the USPTO has its own Facebook page. Bizarre!

      http://www.facebook.com/uspto.gov

      Why does the USPTO need that when their own website is sufficient for posting information...

      Because this way we can all show what fans we are of the USPTO!

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    3. Re:The USPTO Itself Has a Facebook Page. Bizarre! by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

      Having a facebook page is the 'in' thing for government/corporate entities to do these days.

  17. While I don't by al0ha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    agree with most patents like these, as long as it was awarded I personally would not at all mind seeing some cash rich entity open a can of whup-ass on Zuckerberg, at the very least it would be some form of karmic payback for stealing ( as is alleged) the Facebook idea from the students who hired him to help them. Cheating is one way to win at business, but not at life and I will never applaud a cheat, regardless of apparent success.

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
    1. Re:While I don't by Nikker · · Score: 1

      While I would like to see Facebook get a swift kick in the ass this is just going to fuck everything else up down the road. Facebook will get its day don't worry.

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
  18. The main function of the by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

    internet is social networking in reality (the transfer of information between individuals and groups), so basically Amazon have been given a patent for the internet, wtf crack monkey at USTPO let this one pass.

  19. Late to the party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't 2008 a little late for Amazon to be trying to crash this patent party?

  20. Invalid by michaelmalak · · Score: 2, Informative

    The time limit for patenting after public sale or disclosure is one year. A judge would declare the patent invalid and throw this case out in five minutes. Minimal attorney fees will be involved.

    IANAL, but I have seen a similar case thrown out where the patent was filed one year and three days after first sale.

    1. Re:Invalid by Kenoli · · Score: 1

      Such garbage would likely be thrown out regardless of the time limit.

    2. Re:Invalid by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Well, seems that PlanetAll was launched November 16, 1996 according to this, while the original patent application dates back to November 2, 1997.

    3. Re:Invalid by michaelmalak · · Score: 1

      Well, seems that PlanetAll was launched November 16, 1996 according to this, while the original patent application dates back to November 2, 1997.

      Thank you for that information. I thought maybe the companies might have submarined it, but I thought -- 13 years, no impossible. So I didn't look it up or RTFA before I posted. My mistake.

    4. Re:Invalid by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      IANAL

      Evidenced by your lack of understanding of patent law, specifically regarding continuing applications.

    5. Re:Invalid by michaelmalak · · Score: 1

      As I already posted, I assumed it wasn't continued for 13 years, and didn't bother to look up the filing date. That turned out to be an incorrect assumption, and since Slashdot does not allow editing or retraction, all I can do is reply to everyone seeking to correct me.

  21. Various Services? by hondo77 · · Score: 1

    ...system provides various services...For example...

    Various services? What am I doing sitting at work like a sucker? I should filling out a patent application for...oh, I don't know...teleportation! Everybody wants teleportation, right?

    The system provides various services to transport an object from point A to point B. For example, it could do it instantaneously and invisibly.

    Since everybody wants teleportation I just sit back and collect those licensing checks. Am I forgetting anything?

    --
    I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    1. Re:Various Services? by GIL_Dude · · Score: 1

      Or, it could show you advertisements during your trip (maybe the teleportation includes a method and a system whereby the user is detained in a cocoon-like sensory deprivation node where the only thing they can see or hear are advertisements for, by way of example, 5 minutes, after which time they are transported forthwith to their ultimate destination). The length of time of the adverts would depend upon the amount of money said user "bid" for the trip and the amount of money advertisers were willing to pay for ads uniquely targeted to the specific traveler. We'll call it Google World Traveler and it will initially be available in the US only.

  22. Facebook and twitter share buttons by drexlor · · Score: 1

    To quote my friend who works for Amazon, "The "share on" facebook and twitter buttons below the summary should be replaced by the amazon smile ;)"

  23. damn... by Charliemopps · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How long is it going to take before they stop allowing software and business practice patents? This is just getting silly.

    1. Re:damn... by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

      Maybe just one more day. Maybe tomorrow SCOTUS starts cleaning up the mess via Bilski. Maybe.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    2. Re:damn... by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 1

      SCOTUS would never let the bad guys win, or carve out a niche scenario in their majority opinion such that the core underlying question remains fundamentally unanswered ... would they?

    3. Re:damn... by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

      technically they have, the US courts have already ruled software methods as not being patentable.

  24. Priceless! by dragisha · · Score: 1

    I think we can just hail Amazon for bringing patent troll to new heights! They bought company, scrapped it... and came to senses 8 yrs later only so they can do a patent troll!

    If that does does not make whole software patent mess obvious enough, I am sure some new Amazon will make even better exercise of it soon enough. We'll sit and wait while they troll each other and whole software patent system to ruin.

    --
    http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
  25. Criteria for patent infringment by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 1

    I read the claims, and noticed that 2 specifies 'friend requests' are sent via email. I only mention claim 2, because while everything else is unavoidably broad, and vaguely worded, I am fairly certain that Facebook specifically does not do this. Does this help to exonerate them?

    More generally, since I care not a whit for facebook, how many claims must one infringe on to be held to task? All of them? 50%? 1? Or is it ultimately, and entirely, up to a judge/jury to decide if you acted in good faith in the event that you get sued (similar to Fair Use)?

    1. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook forwards friend requests via email.

    2. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by tepples · · Score: 1

      I lack a Facebook account, but YouTube friend requests are forwarded through e-mail.

      Meet all the elements of one claim and you infringe.

    3. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 1

      I see. Does Amazon sell tiny violins? It would be equally useful to serenade either Bezos or Zuckerburg when this is through.

    4. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't read this patent but usually they are worded such that the claims are separate. Eg, there is this system for associating contacts thats patented. Such systems that e-mail friend requests are covered, but so are systems that don't

    5. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 1

      Meet all the elements of one claim and you infringe.

      Is there leeway for the judge to decide that while you may infringe, the claims you infringe upon are ridiculously broad? Is there a possibility for justifiable infringment; or is it completely black and white: You infringed, you pay the fine.

    6. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by rilister · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thanks for asking! Most people just go ahead and comment...

      You are in violation of a patent if you violate any single claim - but!

      Typically, you can describe claims as "independent" or "dependent" - in this case Claims 1 and 13 are the independent claims: they don't refer to any other claims.

      These are the most important claims. To work out if you're in violation of a patent, read these first. If you aren't covered by either of these, then you aren't violating the patent.

      The dependent claims (all the others) build on the independent claims by adding detail of some sort. You can't be in violation just by having the same detail in your implementation: you have to be violating this claim and the independent claim it refers to together.

      By the way, most discussions on patents on Slashdot are usually the result of an accumulation of misinterpretations of the way patents work. It's really *only* the claims that matter, and when the other parts seem broad, it doesn't matter at all. Don't get riled up by the background text or the abstract - as people so often do. However, to my eyes, (IANAL) this patent actually is absurd, for once.

      --
      'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
    7. Re:Criteria for patent infringment by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 1

      Well thanks for answering! :)

      They say ignorance is bliss, but I find it quite frustrating. Generally, the more I understand about a system that produces seemingly undesirable results, the less vexing those results become.

  26. This is broken by karlssberg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Software patents are clearly a huge mistake. The US should never have allowed them. They are costing business in the US a fortune and do nothing to protect the little guy inventor with the next idea that will change the world. They are simply a tax on innovation and must be stopped immediately.

    1. Re:This is broken by kegon · · Score: 1

      What about the little guy inventor who comes up with an incredible and magical piece of software that no one would never have thought of in a million years ?

      Without software patents:
      1. He has to hide it and obfuscate it so that no one can copy his idea.
      2. He can't protect it so if anyone works it out they can copy it.
      3. If he successfully hides it, no one ever gets to know how he did it.

      With software patents:
      1. He can get a government enforced monopoly.
      2. Everyone learns how his idea works, from standardised documentation, spurring on further innovations.
      3. After 20 years anyone can copy it and use it, no charge.

    2. Re:This is broken by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      What about the little guy inventor who comes up with an incredible and magical piece of software that no one would never have thought of in a million years ?

      Without software patents:

      1. Copyright law protects both copying of the source and the binaries, and software licenses and/or EULAs can legally limit things like reverse engineering, specific types of usage, etc.

      2. Those protections might be sufficient even if a large company (e.g., Microsoft) decided to appropriate the tech. An obvious appropriation may require legal action, but

      3. The source to successful proprietary programs has been released on a number of occasions. 4DOS, Doom/Quake, and DR-DOS are three potentially interesting examples.

      With software patents:

      1. He can get a monopoly on not just his specific implementation of an idea, but ON ALL POSSIBLE IMPLEMENTIONS of that idea. This prevents even those approaches to solving the problem which are technically quite dissimilar from being independently invented and used.

      NOTE: This is the main problem with software patents: they often describe general concepts, not specific implementations. It's just patenting a "two wheeled vehicle" instead of a "scooter".

      2. He can make the patent application without disclosing source code, and without disclosing enough meaningful technical information for someone else to actually reimplement the idea.

      NOTE: This is the second huge problem with software patents: while the intent of a patent is to disclose the invention so others can benefit, in reality a software patent does no such thing because it is a legal rather than technical representation of the idea.

      3. The patent will effectively last forever in an information technology context. Yes, I've had the chance to work with software older than 20 years of age, but that's in a mainframe context in a line of business where core procedures have changed very little in 20+ years. In a desktop context, 20 years might as well be 100. Or 1000.

      NOTE: This is the third problem with software patents: the term is usually not reasonable given the context of the invention.

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    3. Re:This is broken by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      I think actually the problem is that software patents seem to be allowed on things they would never be allowed on if it weren't software. You can patent a technique or a machine, but you can't patent "a method for conveying people from one place to another via machine". You have to have a particular machine you've invented, or a non-obvious particular method. It seems, at least to this interested but semi-casual observer, that patents are being granted on software for impossibly broad things-- like patenting the extraction of iron from ore, rather than patenting a specific method of extracting iron from ore. Can you patent a "one-keytwist" method of unlocking a door? Of course not, though you certainly could patent a particular lock mechanism. Yet somehow you can patent the entire idea of clicking on just one button to order something. Unfortunately, the patent office is not apparently immune to the common problem of the computer being looked at as an inexplicable magical box and therefore having no idea what precedents or analogues might apply to something when that something is on a computer.

    4. Re:This is broken by kegon · · Score: 1

      1. Copyright law protects both copying of the source and the binaries, and software licenses and/or EULAs can legally limit things like reverse engineering, specific types of usage, etc.

      Copyright law does not protect an invention. If I come up with something totally revolutionary someone else can possibly make another implementation of it. All of my hard work, research and effort has been bypassed. What's my incentive to make something magical ?

      Or, on the other hand, if I invent something totally mind blowing but no one else can work out how to do it. Can you guarantee that all the details will be fully disclosed in a limited period of time ?

      2. Those protections might be sufficient even if a large company (e.g., Microsoft) decided to appropriate the tech. An obvious appropriation may require legal action,

      Tell me more about all these individuals successfully suing large companies who have stolen their IP.

      3. The source to successful proprietary programs has been released on a number of occasions. 4DOS, Doom/Quake, and DR-DOS are three potentially interesting examples.

      What has this got to do with software patents ? 99.99% of proprietary software is never made open source. There is a lot of software that is more then 20 years old for which you cannot get access to the core algorithms. These outliers don't prove anything.

      1. He can get a monopoly on not just his specific implementation of an idea, but ON ALL POSSIBLE IMPLEMENTIONS of that idea. This prevents even those approaches to solving the problem which are technically quite dissimilar from being independently invented and used.

      No, he gets a patent on that invention. If your algorithm uses his invention then you have got to get a licence. If your algorithm is "technically quite dissimilar" either you are using the invention or not, it's quite simple. The patent document can be used to seek new and completely different ways of solving the problem at any time after it has been published, without waiting 20 years.

      2. He can make the patent application without disclosing source code, and without disclosing enough meaningful technical information for someone else to actually reimplement the idea.

      This is not specific to software patents. Your problem is with the patent system itself. The majority of examiners are highly qualified and check whether or not the patent disclosure is sufficient for someone else to recreate the invention. If the disclosure is insufficient then the examiner is bad and the patent can be challenged.

      3. The patent will effectively last forever in an information technology context

      Again, this is not software specific. Most patents are for technology, therefore any amount of time is "forever". The patent has to last long enough to make it worthwhile to the inventor. You've got to give him a chance to recoup his investment, develop a product, license it out, etc.

    5. Re:This is broken by karlssberg · · Score: 1

      The problem as I see it is that the inventor of an idea may not have created the best implementation of that idea. Someone else may come along and want to create a better product that uses the (unchanged) original patent, but they can't because the inventor sees this as competition. Who should suffer? The individual inventor, or society at large by putting up with an inadequate product? Software patents are a monopoly on ideas in an industry where ideas are the building blocks of progress.

    6. Re:This is broken by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      2. Those protections might be sufficient even if a large company (e.g., Microsoft) decided to appropriate the tech. An obvious appropriation may require legal action, but

      How do you prove Microsoft didn't make an independent invention?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:This is broken by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      Sure, that may be, but that doesn't apply uniquely to software, that applies to inventions in general. Ideas are the building blocks of progress in all patentable arenas, not just software. The notion of the idea is the whole point of the patent. If you patent a new mousetrap design, I may come up with a better but derivative design, and then I have to license it from you if I want to sell it within the patent period.

      Note also that the patent period is relatively short (and maybe it should be even shorter for software), as compared to copyright which has gotten out of hand (death plus 70 years). Both are originally intended to secure some benefit to creators for their creation by allowing them to exclusively profit from it for some initial period of time after it is introduced.

      And by doing so, don't forget that, while indeed keeping society from getting to have cheaper knock-offs or patent-infringing improved designs, patents also do confer benefits on society at the same time, by encouraging innovation on the part of people who can patent their ideas. Remember that if software can't be patented, then the individual or start-up business has no protection against the giant industry leading corporation that can, without penalty, just duplicate the invention and reap all its benefits thanks to their huge existing marketing and distribution channels and budgets. Today a Microsoft would have to either buy my company from me or license the use of my idea. Without a patent, they could just duplicate it themselves and put out of business the person who came up with the idea. Society needs to balance the public good of getting to use new ideas freely with the public good of fostering those ideas, and a short but real patent period of time is probably a good way of doing so.

    8. Re:This is broken by karlssberg · · Score: 1

      I think the inventor should go out of business if they can't make their idea work properly as a product. They shouldn't hold the rest of the industry to ransom. Software ideas are cheap, quick and serendipitous, its the implementation that cost time and money.

    9. Re:This is broken by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      The point isn't whether they can make it work properly as a product, but whether they can, with a working product, have an opportunity to actually profit from their own inventions. Without patents, inventors have a better chance of losing money than making money from putting the effort-- often a whole lot of money and time-- into inventing. The market-wide incentive would be to sit back and let other people invest all the money in R&D, and then scoop up their ideas. And small businesses and individuals would be altogether out of luck-- they'd have nearly no chance to get something out to a wide market before large businesses with large amounts of capital copied their product and put it on every shelf in the country.

      As for being "cheap, quick and serendipitous," maybe, but implementation is also far cheaper than for mechanical inventions. Especially implementation on a mass, distributable scale-- you can make a new, better lawn mower engine prototype in your garage if you own machining tools, but you need to set up a whole factory somehow if you want to sell them, and retool every time you make a design change. With software, scaling up from one copy to one million copies is practically nothing in comparison.

      I'd think that the lower implementation and to-market barriers in software, combined with the fact that the cycle of development, design, and market advancement is faster, possibly argues for a shorter protected period under patent law, maybe 5 years instead of 14 (though, I may be thinking of things like packaged software; maybe something like, say, a compression algorithm could be a different story), but I don't see a qualitative difference between software and any other invention with regard to the things that we're discussing here.

    10. Re:This is broken by karlssberg · · Score: 1

      Nice answer but you've forgetting that an "idea" has nothing to do with research, has nothing to do with how well you can mass produce it or any of the other distractions to my argument. You can't plan an idea, you can only influence peoples minds with facts, experience etc in the hope that something original will come out of it. Whether you came up with the idea or not, building a factory and/or pumping out products has nothing to do with the act of inventing. Inventors (which I include myself as) come up with good ideas because they have a deep interest in the subject. I have spent no money coming up with great ideas. It is a fallacy that the idea costs time/money.... it's the education/knowledge/experience necessary to come up with great ideas that does. Software should be considered in the same spirit as business processes, art, music and mathematics.

    11. Re:This is broken by miserere+nobis · · Score: 1

      But it isn't an "idea", in the sense that you're talking about, that gets patented. It is a specific design of something-- an idea in practice. And I'd dispute your contention, as well, that all such things are free. Ideas don't usually happen out of nowhere. Sometimes they take serious, applied thought in an attempt to solve a particular problem.

      "Well, that means of synthesizing this protein didn't work...what if we tried this way? Okay, another failed attempt that we spent a week and built specialty equipment for, let's try a third option." Eventually you come up with something that is worth patenting, which not every idea is. (I could give you plenty of methods for failing to turn iron into gold, for instance.) And that process definitely costs time and money and serious effort. Even in software, it takes work and experimentation, and often a lot of time spent in analysis and thought, if you are solving a complex problem.

      Sure, an idea has nothing to do with research if you only count the actual split-second moment that the final, working solution occurs to you as "having an idea". But that's not really all that's involved in having an idea, and it certainly isn't all that is involved in testing the idea or developing something real out of it. I can't just say, "I have an idea-- let's get stuff into outer space using a 25,000-mile elevator. Okay, hand me a patent, please."

      Furthermore, you still say nothing that really shows software inventions to be qualitatively different than other inventions.

      Finally, I certainly wouldn't claim building a factory and mass producing something is part of the invention process. The point about building the factory is that the law secures to an inventor the exclusive right to do that mass producing for a period of time, because otherwise the inventor would have little or no chance of profiting from his or her own invention.

  27. Re:Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by trentblase · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is a continuing application claiming priority to an application originally filed in 1997.

  28. Hope Zuk's feeling rich by psyopper · · Score: 1

    I wonder if Amazon has a "1-Click Ordering" system in place for patent licensing fees.

  29. Prior Art by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A networked computer system provides various services for assisting users in locating, and establishing contact relationships with, other users.

    How long has 411 been using a networked computer system?

  30. Re:Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Couple things:

    - The date to beat is Nov. 2, 1997, not the 2008 filing date. That is, art after Nov. 2, 1997 is not prior art.
    From the patent: This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369).

    - The abstract of the patent, quoted above, is not the critical part. The claims are what determine infringement. Here, the claims are pretty broad and do seem to cover facebook.

    -- Patent Attorney

  31. Wouldn't... by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    having a geocities/or web page with links to your fiends pages which then contain links to other friends pages be the same thing? What about a webring?

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  32. It's all BS. by msauve · · Score: 3, Informative
    First, it's obvious that there was prior art for the patent as described, when it was filed in 2008.

    Second, even if Planetall used a unique and patentable invention in 1998, it cannot be patented with an application filed in 2008. Here's a descriptive quote from the MIT Technology Licensing Office:

    The U.S. patent law system is among the most lenient in the world with regards to prior disclosure of your invention. It allows you to publish your invention or offer it for sale prior to filing a patent application, provided that you file your patent application within one year of the publication or offer for sale. If you wait longer than one year, your patent rights are forfeited. The one-year period is a "grace period." - MIT-TLO

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:It's all BS. by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's all very good, Mr. Patent-Law-Reader, but why should we expect a reviewer at the USPTO to be aware of that rule? They don't have time to read legalese: they have patents to grant. Including mine, for a method of storing and nesting hypertext comments in a networked news system. Now get off their backs!

    2. Re:It's all BS. by blair1q · · Score: 4, Funny

      Kindly cease and desist using a method of concatenating letters to form words. It is patent-pending.

    3. Re:It's all BS. by Random+BedHead+Ed · · Score: 1

      Not if my pending "method of delivering a blunt patent-infringement threat" patent has anything to say about it.

    4. Re:It's all BS. by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Informative

      The patent has a valid priority chain going all the way back to 2 November 1997. That means that the effective filing date of this patent is 2 November 1997.

      See 35 USC 120.

    5. Re:It's all BS. by McFortner · · Score: 1

      You are all infringing on my "Using marks, characters, and pictures to transfer information between two parties" patent. My lawyers will be in touch!

      --
      Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
    6. Re:It's all BS. by Veramocor · · Score: 1

      Actually the prior art that is required may even be earlier than that. You are only statutorily barred from a patent if the prior art ( 35 USC 102(b) type art) is more than 1 year prior to your priority date (or on sale in use 1 year prior).

      If it is say 6 months from your priority date (102 (a) the inventor may file a 131 declaration which attests that the invention was reduced to practice prior to the prior art date or that it was conceived prior to the prior art date and they diligently worked on the invention till the invention was reduced to practice.

      --
      Veramocor
    7. Re:It's all BS. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Well, if your reference is another patent or patent application publication under 102(e), the prior art date (i.e., the filing date of the prior art patent or pub) could be more than a year before the priority date, and the applicant could still swear behind it (however unlikely that might be).

    8. Re:It's all BS. by Peach+Rings · · Score: 1

      Good luck making yourself understood without infringing on my "Method to aid in communicating with other similar minds by means of symbolizing common thoughts" patent on language!

    9. Re:It's all BS. by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Oh, please. Before any of you posted you'd already violated my patent on the business method of 'patenting methods that others are already employing'. I am entitled to all proceeds derived from enforcing your respective patents.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    10. Re:It's all BS. by Nailer235 · · Score: 1

      This should not be rated as informative as it's just flat out wrong. The application appears to be a continuation of an app. filed in 1997. What matters in determining priority is when the original app. was filed and whether or not the applications were co-pending.

    11. Re:It's all BS. by sincewhen · · Score: 1

      But is pre-dated by my patent upon a method of employing symbols in various shapes, sizes and spacings which in at least one embodiment may be used as a means of communication.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    12. Re:It's all BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not BS. The patent claims priority back to November, 1997. So if Planetall had a unique and patentable invention, it would be entitled to this patent.

    13. Re:It's all BS. by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      I h e r e b y d e c l a r e t h a t I w i l l n o t v i o l a t e y o u r p a t e n t . F e e l f r e e t o s u e M a n k i n d .

    14. Re:It's all BS. by blackbeak · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it's probably safe to assume even you McFortner are infringing on my organic O2 to CO2 conversion process patent. So pay up or cease and desist!

      --
      Everything and its opposite is true. Get used to it.
    15. Re:It's all BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are wrong. If original 1997 disclosure the technology required, new claims can be written later so long as there is a co-pending continuation of the original filing.

      First, it's obvious that there was prior art for the patent as described, when it was filed in 2008.

      Second, even if Planetall used a unique and patentable invention in 1998, it cannot be patented with an application filed in 2008. Here's a descriptive quote from the MIT Technology Licensing Office:

      The U.S. patent law system is among the most lenient in the world with regards to prior disclosure of your invention. It allows you to publish your invention or offer it for sale prior to filing a patent application, provided that you file your patent application within one year of the publication or offer for sale. If you wait longer than one year, your patent rights are forfeited. The one-year period is a "grace period." - MIT-TLO

    16. Re:It's all BS. by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Kindly cease and desist using a method of concatenating letters to form words. It is patent-pending.

      Who cares? Repeatedly randomising the alphabet and removing letters until the desired word appears is just as good really.

    17. Re:It's all BS. by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Which was preceeded by sixdegrees.com and classmates.com, at least.

    18. Re:It's all BS. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      If you first cease and desist using a method of matter transformation that is called “life”. As I patented just that a year ago.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    19. Re:It's all BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so what then were CompuServe communities....

    20. Re:It's all BS. by Syberz · · Score: 1

      Kindly cease and desist using a method of concatenating letters to form words

      Honestly, someone should plump this sentence up with fancy sounding words and grammar, add some legalese and then try to patent "peer to peer communication using drawing recognition of optical input" aka writing, for real. If that were to be granted it would be the most glaring example of the failure of the patent system.

      --
      ~Syberz
    21. Re:It's all BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kindly cease and desist using a method of concatenating letters to form words. It is patent-pending.

      K i n d l y c e a s e a n d d e s i s t u s i n g a m e t h o d o f c o n c a t e n a t i n g w o r d s t o f o r m s e n t e n c e s . I t i s p a t e n t - p e n d i n g .

  33. Are you persuaded to let go of patents yet ? by unity100 · · Score: 1

    how many absurd examples and exploits will it take to make some of you realize that this thing, CAN NOT work ? 'logic' being patented in the climax ? if a=> b, and b=>c then a=>c being patented ? what ?

  34. Software Patents Have Missed The Boat by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm very pro-patents. I think they are necessary to spur new innovations in technology and, more importantly, share innovations with everyone as quickly as possible. Without patents, almost all manufacturing would be a trade secret, instead of the knowledge being spread world-wide as soon as a new invention arises. This, I think, is vital to our society.

    However, the more I think about the nature of software the more I think software patents are unnecessary, even for the true innovations out there, and therefore actually harmful to progress. With traditional patents, what you get is a machine design, which by necessity must give you the "secret" to the innovation. That secret can be small, so long as it's new and non-obvious it's still worth copying. But with the current state of software patents, even if you read the patent you must still either re-create the patented idea from scratch, using the patent as nothing more than a direction (with no "secret" revealed at all), or you must reverse engineer the product to discover the secret for yourself. That doesn't spread the knowledge of the innovation at all, and does nothing to add incentive to the creators of a new innovation. In fact, thanks to patent trolls, it actually inhibits innovation in a lot of cases.

    In my opinion, software patents need to either start coming with pseudo-code or be dismissed out of hand. All this bullshit of just listing a bunch of claims without any actual code behind it that can be applied by a software engineer is worthless. If the patent doesn't need any code for a competent engineer to re-create the product, then it's obviously not novel and should have been dismissed in the first place. Given the speed with which the software industry moves and strength of the open source movement, I think there is also strong evidence to suggest they are entirely unnecessary to promote innovation (which is what they exist to do).

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    1. Re:Software Patents Have Missed The Boat by OnePumpChump · · Score: 1

      "For example, in one embodiment" This phrase alone means the patent is over-broad.

    2. Re:Software Patents Have Missed The Boat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Innovation" is just a bullshit way of saying "leech off other peoples work. It is, by definition, NOT an invention.

    3. Re:Software Patents Have Missed The Boat by testostertwo · · Score: 1

      Of course if you supply pseudo-code, then it's semantically equivalent to maths, so not patentable.

      Software patents? Just say no.

    4. Re:Software Patents Have Missed The Boat by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Of course if you supply pseudo-code, then it's semantically equivalent to maths, so not patentable.

      So is everything in the Universe. Most physical goods these days are designed entirely with information. Casting the part into steel is the last and already not patentable.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  35. hooray! by bugi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I for one applaud amazon's efforts at destroying the patent system by demonstrating the extent of its absurdity.

    1. Re:hooray! by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      I for one applaud amazon's efforts at destroying the patent system by demonstrating the extent of its absurdity.

      Those of you too young to be familiar with Amazon's 1999 One-Click ordering patent should have a look at the links.

      The patent excerpt even states "Method and system for placing a purchase order via a communications network" without immediately clarifying the single click. The patent probably clarifies the focus on the 1-click part and avoids otherwise obvious issues with the excerpts lack of precision.

  36. lolwut by bender183 · · Score: 1

    What exactly does this mean for the social networking giants like facebook? Are they going to have to pay royalty fees to amazon now every time someone writes on ur wall? This is a really bizarre patent issuance.

  37. Hmm by nightfire-unique · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When a process runs amok and takes down the host OS, we don't blame the process. We blame the OS. The OS's job is to protect the host (and other processes) from errant processes.

    While it's certainly unethical behavior, I don't think we should rush to blame Amazon for this and any of its future actions. It's like putting candy in front of a baby and getting upset when the baby reaches for it.

    The patent system should be dismantled. It is obsolete.

    Failing that, software patents should be unquestionably and finally ruled invalid.

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    1. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it's certainly unethical behavior, I don't think we should rush to blame Amazon for this and any of its future actions. It's like putting candy in front of a baby and getting upset when the baby reaches for it.

      Agreed. Candy that they're legally obligated to reach for, no less.

      Not that I'm bashing corporations or capitalism, but when the actors in a system like the patent system are both expected and required to maximize their own self-interest, it's all the more important for the system to be secure against abuse.

    2. Re:Hmm by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      errr.....it's not necessarily the job of the OS to babysit everything. Nanny-state, much? If a process simply calls a recursive fork, it can cause problems.

      How about a different option - we blame the OS for not being set up well enough to handle assholes, and we blame the asshole for being an asshole.

    3. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we blame the process for crashing, and the host for also crashing, when each should be designed so that they don't crash.

      Or are all of Adobe's security holes on Windows, really Microsoft's? (Some of them are, tbh, but that's usually url handler issues)

    4. Re:Hmm by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

      "While it's certainly unethical behavior, I don't think we should rush to blame Amazon for this and any of its future actions. It's like putting candy in front of a baby and getting upset when the baby reaches for it."

      You seem to be asserting that corporations and their CEOS have the emotional maturity and ethical development of an infant.

      Ok, I'll give you that much.

      --
      This space available.
  38. Flowcharts by tepples · · Score: 1

    In my opinion, software patents need to either start coming with pseudo-code or be dismissed out of hand.

    Read the "description" and you might find something like pseudocode. Certainly the diagrams in a software patent represent flowcharts.

  39. Classmates.com est.1995 by future+assassin · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  40. Social Networking - What's that? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

    I'm 33, have seen the rise of the dial-up BBS, Internet boom of the 90s, and still work in the IT industry. I don't have a MySpace, Facebook, or Twitter account. The only social networking that comes even close is Slashdot and the occasional postings on in other forums. Even so, I'm still relatively anonymous with the exception of what I tell you, and my online handle.

    Is it me, or am I the only one that could get a rats ass about these social networking sites. Some how, I feel like *I'm* the odd ball here with all the hype surrounding these sites.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
    1. Re:Social Networking - What's that? by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      You're not alone. I only have the accounts on Facebook and Twitter as placeholders. I think it's because I pretty much grew up with the BBS back in the 80's and the early web chat sites in the late 90's, I'm social-ed out.

    2. Re:Social Networking - What's that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > am I the only one that could get a rats ass

      I'm not sure, but I don't think _I_ could get a rat's ass, certainly I don't have a clue where I might get one from. I doubt many other slashdot users could either. So yeah, maybe you're the only one.

    3. Re:Social Networking - What's that? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Is it me, or am I the only one that could get a rats ass about these social networking sites.

      I started online with a 300 baud modem on a C=64. But most of my friends didn't and I care what they're up to. YMMV.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  41. How about sixdegrees.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Well lets see... there was sixdegrees.com in 1997. AOL... Usenet... prodigy... FidoNET...

  42. Amazon versus Facebook? by ignavus · · Score: 1

    Wake me up when they have destroyed each other.

    --
    I am anarch of all I survey.
  43. buying != inventing by Red_Chaos1 · · Score: 1

    Amazon bought another site and it's software. They didn't invent a fucking thing. IMO that should immediately make it impossible for them to have claimed to have invented anything. They may own it, but they didn't make it.

    Just another example of our wonderfully and horribly broken patent system.

  44. Slashdot violates this patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You realize that the patent is broad enough to claim /. as an infringer.

    1. Re:Slashdot violates this patent by dwarfsoft · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly what I was thinking. Friends and Foes infringes on this patent. Having said that, the fact that they only applied for a patent after these types of systems were already built should stop it from being enforceable right? Prior art?

      --
      Cheers, Chris
  45. My BBS by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    My BBS predates this patent, and had all the stated features. ( as did many others )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:My BBS by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      The claimed features? Or just the ones blathered on about in the abstract?

      Also, was your BBS available for the examiner to cite as prior art? If not, you can't really fault the examiner for not citing it - examiners can't just say, "Yeah, I've seen that before," but not provide evidence to back up their statement.

    2. Re:My BBS by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      No, its no longer online for direct examination, but its documented, as are many others. Some are still online if a little research was done, but I would assume that 3rd party documentation of a pre-existing software product would be enough for the Patent Office?

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  46. Prior art back in 1971, if not earlier. by EWAdams · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First there was the Who program that let you see who was logged on. Then Les Earnest wrote the Finger program which displayed their .plan file. This enabled them to share personal information like which high school they went to. Then you could send them E-mail or ttymsgs and talk about it. The Name/Finger protocol makes it work over the network. Social networking in a nutshell.

    Assholes.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:Prior art back in 1971, if not earlier. by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      Finger is built into Windows 7, which is pretty impressive. Now I'm coming up with some very evil thoughts about underused services and getting around firewalls.

    2. Re:Prior art back in 1971, if not earlier. by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Dude, Finger is in Windows XP.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    3. Re:Prior art back in 1971, if not earlier. by AlexiaDeath · · Score: 1

      Damn... A trip down memory lane... Terminal services at uni, finger on friends what they are up to, making funny plan files and scripts to grep out friends last online time out of who and making it part of your bash profile--- Where has the time gone... all 6 years of it. VT220 terminals FTW.

  47. Yes they should worry by mysidia · · Score: 1

    And Facebook should really try to partner with Amazon or establish other agreements / arrangements to align the two company's interests.

    The consequences for FB could be dire if Amazon decides to back a new social networking venture, and use their patent as leverage against the competition.... or...

    Maybe since the social networking sites Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google buzz, Google Wave, Myspace, Orkut, Yahoo profiles, Frienster, eHarmony, delicious, ...., seem to be so popular these days, maybe there is money to be made, if not in pursuing lucrative *cough* extortio^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H licensing arrangements with these social networking websites, ..

    Then by renting out the patent, or outsourcing 'Intellectual property rights monetization' to another company, preferably one located in the district of East Texas.

  48. The final straw.... by Rhadamanthos · · Score: 1

    I can only wish and pray so much: but let us all hope that this is the last straw that broke the copyright' back. If you’re interested in knowing more I would suggest Shamans, Software and Spleens, Law and the Construction of the Information Society by James Boyle. Granted it's more of an educational book/ref book for college students. But it does shed light on much that is controversial in this topic.

  49. Delete the Patent System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One more beautiful example of why the patent system should be disbanded. Amazon is positively evil about this sort of thing.

  50. NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Theaetetus · · Score: 4, Informative

    RELATED APPLICATIONS This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369).

    That last one is the prior art date - November 2, 1997. This predates Facebook, Friendster, and all that jazz by half a decade.

    1. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by cottandr · · Score: 1

      The first patent (the one filed in 1997) describes a PIM a la microsoft exchange. The second patent (the one filed in 1999) distinctly mentions relationships and granting permission to view personal information. The 2008 patent just seems to adjust the claims to fit a current social network.

      --
      my other sig is also a porsche
    2. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'm sure that without this being patentable, none of those sites would have been made possible. All hail patents for their ability to encourage innovation!

    3. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks?

    4. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if they claim the same thing or not. They gain priority benefits by having identical specifications. You can have more than one invention within the specification.

      If what is claimed does not have support this time around, the examiner should give a new matter or enablement rejection.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    5. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, somebody who actually understands how priority dates work. Whenever I see a patent posting on Slashdot I am amused by all the commenters who call patent attorneys and examiners idiots without first informing themselves of the most basic rules for patenting.

    6. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stajl Plejs Community" the first Swedish community was founded in 1996, and that was an actual community site in the same sense as those we have today (but slightly more primitive obviously).

    7. Re:NOT "2008 patent filing", but 1997! by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The first patent (the one filed in 1997) describes a PIM a la microsoft exchange. The second patent (the one filed in 1999) distinctly mentions relationships and granting permission to view personal information. The 2008 patent just seems to adjust the claims to fit a current social network.

      Doesn't matter, provided the specification matches the application they claim priority to, with no new matter.

  51. Not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It was not "published", so is not prior art.

    Let's spend more energy on this, instead of leading productive lives.

  52. Hipocricy is not karma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cheating? He made it work.

    To make social engineering work for you, you need incredible amounts of luck, devotion and investment.

    Or just a bogus patent to swing your whip at businesses.

    I find your "karmic payback" smack of hipocricy and laziness. When have YOU ever made ANY social networking site work? I highly doubt you are in the .1% category that made it work..

  53. Missed what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Software patents haven't missd anything. They don't think or act, just abused by huge corporations and troll lawyer firms.

    I think what you're looking for is "copyright", and yes, the code should be revealed. Now it is still secret, and protected. The content providers of software get it both ways now.. Especially with the DMCA, even encrypted transmissions and storage are protected from altering or "unauthorized" access, even if you bought and "own" the device yourself.

    "I think there is also strong evidence to suggest they are entirely unnecessary to promote innovation (which is what they exist to do)."

    Mwhahahahahahahaaaahahaaaa gurgle... You had to make me spill my coffee up my nose, didnt you?

    As if anything to do with patents nowadays is about sharing actual knowledge, and not squash competition and gain monopolistic favours. Hehe. Nice to see someone think straight, but the "business" out there, is more alike mafia, than actual enterprises. More like criminals and extorters, than service providers. Nice laugh though, wish it were true. Patents these days are not worth investigating, especially from the triple damages risked if you wilfully violate a patent..

  54. Mod parent up by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

    Finally someone on Slashdot gets the patent game.

  55. Re:Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which is, BTW, the real problem: you can file a patent application and keep rewriting it for a decade or more until somebody comes up with the same idea. Then you tweak the language to match perfectly and collect big-ass cash money. Software patents may be stupid, but the rules that allow this are Sarah-Palin-retarded.

  56. How can the PTO be so STUPID? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, where do they find examiners so BRAIN-DEAD as to approve these patents? It's almost incomprehensible that 21st century humans could be so ignorant and incompetent.

  57. To read a patent look at the claims not the intro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Slashdot is fond of finding patents that describe an invention in very broad terms and then say someone else did that. Whoever does that doesn't understand patents. Before complaining go to the section labeled Claims. A claim will contain a number of elements. If previous literature does every single one of those elements then the patent should not have been granted. Otherwise the patent holder can go after someone who does every single one of those things. If someone doesn't do even a single thing listed, then the patent is useless against them. There are many patents that should not be granted but only a small percent of what Slashdot complains about have anything to do with the real patent issue and needlessly inflame people.

                Here's the claim for this patent:

                What is claimed is:

                1. A computer-implemented method, comprising: receiving and storing personal data of a first user of a computer-based service, said computer-based service accessible to users over a network, said personal data specified by the first user; providing a user interface for users to establish contact relationships with other users of the service such that each user can have one or more contacts, said user interface enabling a user to identify other users of the service, and to selectively initiate the generation of requests to establish contact relationships with the identified users; receiving a request from a second user of the service to establish a contact relationship with the first user, said request submitted to the service over a network via said user interface; sending a notification of the request to the first user over a network; providing an option, in connection with said request, for the first user to grant permission for the second user to view at least some of the personal data of the first user; and in response to the first user granting said permission, providing the second user access to at least some of the personal data of the first user via a contact information user interface of the service, such that the second user is provided access to data that would not otherwise be accessible to the second user via the service; wherein the method, including receiving and storing the personal data, providing the user interface, receiving the request, sending the notification, providing said option, and providing the second user access, is performed by a server computer system.
     

  58. Re:To read a patent look at the claims not the int by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But it's hard to read a claim, it's much more fun to flame without actually knowing anything you are flaming about. It's much more fun to complain about the education of patent reviewers than to actually find out what a patent is and be the slightest bit educated yourself.

  59. Antisocial patent? by LittleBigScript · · Score: 1

    I hereby patent the antisocial network. Now get off my lawn.

    1. Re:Antisocial patent? by fishexe · · Score: 1

      I hereby patent the antisocial network. Now get off my lawn.

      No!





      .... shit, did I just violate your patent?

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  60. Re:Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by Veramocor · · Score: 1

    You are technically not allowed to add new matter to a continuing application. That means only things which were described at the time of filing of the priority application can be claimed. Of course a broad reading of the specification may allow for embodiments to be patented which were't necessaerily contimplated at the priority filing date but do pass the written description test.

    --
    Veramocor
  61. Ridiculous! by n6kuy · · Score: 1

    ... but I wouldn't mind if classmates.com got sued out of business...

    --
    If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
  62. People were already networking socially in 1997... by mykos · · Score: 1

    Why are people allowed to patent obvious stuff? People were doing social networking in 1997 via the internet. Geocities? AOL Instant Messenger? ICQ? BBS? Tripod? Classmates.com? Any of these ring a bell?

  63. Re:Niggers are worthless by BillX · · Score: 1

    What's that, 1E+09 boos?
    You even fail at being a racist.

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
  64. You have to read the claims by mixed_signal · · Score: 1

    Everything referenced in the thread so far is from the description and abstract. What matters most is the actual claims. These can be quite narrow, especially given the cited prior art, however given the rapid time from filing to issue I would guess that the application went through without much push back from the examiners.

    Claim 1 is pasted below. The other independent claim is Claim 13. All the other claims are dependent on these (narrower).

    It will be interesting to see if this is challenged... but I suspect Amazon will first have to sue someone, since a patent is just that - a right to sue.

    1. A computer-implemented method, comprising: receiving and storing personal data of a first user of a computer-based service, said computer-based service accessible to users over a network, said personal data specified by the first user; providing a user interface for users to establish contact relationships with other users of the service such that each user can have one or more contacts, said user interface enabling a user to identify other users of the service, and to selectively initiate the generation of requests to establish contact relationships with the identified users; receiving a request from a second user of the service to establish a contact relationship with the first user, said request submitted to the service over a network via said user interface; sending a notification of the request to the first user over a network; providing an option, in connection with said request, for the first user to grant permission for the second user to view at least some of the personal data of the first user; and in response to the first user granting said permission, providing the second user access to at least some of the personal data of the first user via a contact information user interface of the service, such that the second user is provided access to data that would not otherwise be accessible to the second user via the service; wherein the method, including receiving and storing the personal data, providing the user interface, receiving the request, sending the notification, providing said option, and providing the second user access, is performed by a server computer system.

  65. Fear by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    As a developer I am frightened every time I expose some code to the world. Who's patent have I infringed? If I make it so that a user's status is visible to others I can be assured that somebody has patented this. I would not be shocked if people have patents on things like logins and logouts, or a patent on centering things on a screen.

    Now that the patent office basically has given away a patent that seems to cover facebook to perfection what technically stops Amazon from shutting Facebook down? People might say, "Hey facebook is big and will pile on the lawyers." but when Microsoft was even recently staring down the barrel of an injunction on further Office sales what the heck chance does someone small have?

    Some patent trolls are looking to take a bite from the big pies but does everyone remember Blackboard Learning Systems? They used patents to kill competitors who "stole" their technology. In that case their patent was taken out and shot but not until they had killed a Canadian company with something like a 2.7 million dollar judgment. It was only after a huge internet quest was started for prior art that a single foul patent was curtailed. 1 down, 1 zillion to go.

    Let's hope that the Supreme Court pulls the rug out from under all these patent trolls. I suspect that most viable companies with many software patents will breath a sigh of relief knowing that some team of lawyers in Texas won't be able to tax them ever again. Patents are supposed to be Non-Obvious to someone working in the field. Usually the great successes are not so much technological but a combination of balance and marketing. In a way patents often only provide protection to the failed ideas. I usually hear of patent lawsuits originating from patents that were created by companies that ended up face down in the dirt. Some law firm or competitor buy the patent for a song and starts ruining everyone else's day. I doubt that there is any part of Twitter that 100,000 slashdotters couldn't build 10 different ways and in many cases better than the twitter people. But what I suspect that most of us would have said, pre twitter, is that a 140 character blogging site is stupid. Might still say it but I wouldn't mind having a piece of that. But I wouldn't want to see them sued because someone has a patent on limiting a text field to a set number of characters, say 140.

  66. sounds like email and dns? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    email + dns (for affiliations resolution) - or am I just talking crazy?

  67. uspto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    another failure of the illegitimate obama regime /s

  68. Prior Art by Nailer235 · · Score: 1

    I'm seeing way too many of you who have no idea how the patent system works and what is considered prior art. 35 U.S.C. 102(b). If the invention claimed has been in public use more than one year prior to the patent being filed, a statutory bar exists. No patent rights can be obtained for it. "Prior Art" is anything that existed before the date of invention. It doesn't really matter in this case since a statutory bar exists. However, if this application is a continuation of a previously filed application, then the statutory bar may not exist. The way the intro is worded suggests it's a brand new app so this shouldn't be the case

  69. Perfect scenerio by codecore · · Score: 1

    Patent is granted.
    Amazon gets a court order to halt facebook.
    The public sees our flawed patent system.
    Patent system gets reformed.

  70. Software Patents vs Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see any problem with the software patents. They are the natural extension of capitalism - that allows people to profit from the multiple use of their inventions - virtual/electronic or otherwise.

    If someone invents something (and has the good sense to patent it), they are entitled to profit from its use. Why should this not apply to software?

    If you want to break the back of software patents, you're going to have to substantively alter the capitalist model.

    I believe that abolishing IP is a great start. I'm not Chinese, and I'm not a software pirate. I just feel that people should not profit eternally from their inventions. They should profit from their efforts. Viva la open source model.

  71. Time to patent Planet-forming... by Montezumaa · · Score: 1

    I am going to patent both planet-forming and planets in general. It will be about as easy as patenting "Social Networking System" and then I am going to boot all these asinine patent trolls of this planet. I will stipulate that Jupiter is "prior art", but that all the other planets are not, as I could not submit my patent within the proper time frame.

  72. Prior art by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

    Surely Friends Reunited or Live Journal pre-date this by a long long time.

    --
    Sara
    Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  73. Am i missing something here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they've patented "Go out and meet people... but with computers?"

  74. The first effective electronic social networking.. by suitepotato · · Score: 1

    ...would be when people gathered around a telegraph. Amazon is quite a bit late.

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
  75. IRC = prior art by beaverdownunder · · Score: 1

    Or Diversi Dial, or Synergy Teleconferencing System, or Galacticomm...

  76. My Next Patent by Bysshe · · Score: 1

    A method by which protection is granted to novel approaches and products allowing an entity to enforce and profit for a given amount of time from the effort put into the approach and/or product and any enduring benefits of said approach or product.

    Then I'll sue the USPTO

    --
    Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
  77. Since the USPTO will approve any patent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tomorrow I'm going to apply for a patent on air. The USPTO will grant my patent. I will then force all of you to agree to a license to use air. Those who refuse will be summarily suffocated by my IP enforcement team. We cannot and will not be charged with murder as we are simply enforcing our patent. Thanks for the profits and otherwise illegal mayhem USPTO!

  78. Just out of curiousity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the US patent system patented? Or even patentable?

  79. Oh Snap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And now the Zuckerpuncher becomes the Zuckerpunchee!

  80. Prior Art Cited in the Patent by notaspy · · Score: 1

    Wellman (For A Social Network Analysis of Computer Networks), Jan. 1996, ACM, pp. 1-11. cited by examiner .
    Kautz et al (ReferralWeb: Combining Social Networks and Collaborating Filtering), Mar. 1997, Communication of the ACM, vol. 40 No. 3, pp. 1-4. cited by examiner .
    "1997 Edition GS Lotus Organizer/Exploring Organizer/Windows 95 edition," pp. iii-vii and 8-1-8-6. cited by other .
    "Applications Handbook For the Palm III .TM.Organizer," 3Com, pp. iii-v, and 1-12 (Apr. 1998). cited by other .
    "Symantec ACT! User's Guide and Reference, Version 2.0 For Windows," pp. ix-xvi and 3-11-3-26. cited by other .
    "Information about Lotus Notes from the Lotus Web Site (www.Lotus.com), " pp. 1-13 (Apr. 1998). cited by other .
    "Domino 4.6 Features Overview," Jul. 1997, 2 pages, www.lotus.com/domino. cited by other .
    "Yahoo! White Pages," Copyright 1994-1998, Yahoo!, http://www.yahoo.com/. cited by other .
    "WhoWhere?," Copyright 1995-1998, Who/Where? Inc., http://www.whowhere.com/. cited by other .
    R. Tamura, et al., "Lotus Notes 4," pp. 39, 64-65, and 176 (1996). cited by other .
    Cardwell, "Cyberscene Planet Keeps You in Touch," Dec. 1996, Boston Herald Boston. cited by other .
    Day, "New Software Tracks Corporate Travel Plans," Jan. 1991, Denver Post (Denver, CO,US), V99 N153 sC p2, Dialog File 63 Accession No. 0187621. cited by other .
    Wetzel, "Municipally-owned venues feel brunt of city budget cuts," Aug. 1991, Amusement Business, v103, n31, p3(3), Dialog File 148, Accession No. 05427255. cited by other .
    "Should manufacturers try to establish rapport with their agents' other principals," Mar. 1995, Agency Sales Magazine v25n3, pp. 13-15, Dialog File 15, Accession No. 00988855. cited by other .
    Smith, "Companies Meet Each Other at the Airport," Jul. 1995, The Los Angeles Times, ISSN: 04583035. cited by other .
    Gerety, "Whose Job Is It Anyway?; Meetings As a Subset of Travel: Yes or No?," Apr. 1992, Business Travel News, ISSN: 8750-3670. cited by other .
    Brisson, et al., "Lifeco Puts Pre-Trip Control in Travel Managers' Hands," Mar. 1991, Business Travel News, ISSN: 8750-3670. cited by other .
    "PlanetAll plans to Make a World of Difference in Busy Lives," Nov. 1996, PR Newswire, pp. 1113NEW025. cited by other .
    "Fall Internet World '96 Exhibitor Previews," Dec. 3, 1996, Business Wire, p. 12030220, Dialog File 16, Accession No. 04716024. cited by other .
    Answer and Second Amended Counterclaims of Defendant Amazon.com, Inc. in Cordance Corporation v. Amazon.com, Inc. (C.A. No. 06-491-MPT). cited by other.

    --
    hi!
  81. Novelty and non-obviousness by tepples · · Score: 1

    Is there leeway for the judge to decide that while you may infringe, the claims you infringe upon are ridiculously broad?

    If by "ridiculously broad" you mean "predicted by the prior art at the time the patent was filed" or "obvious to a person skilled in the art who was familiar with the prior art at the time the patent was filed", then yes. We just have to prove that this stuff was obvious in the dial-up era, when the first patent in this chain of continuations was filed.

  82. Main Claims in the Patent by notaspy · · Score: 1

    1. A computer-implemented method, comprising: receiving and storing personal data of a first user of a computer-based service, said computer-based service accessible to users over a network, said personal data specified by the first user; providing a user interface for users to establish contact relationships with other users of the service such that each user can have one or more contacts, said user interface enabling a user to identify other users of the service, and to selectively initiate the generation of requests to establish contact relationships with the identified users; receiving a request from a second user of the service to establish a contact relationship with the first user, said request submitted to the service over a network via said user interface; sending a notification of the request to the first user over a network; providing an option, in connection with said request, for the first user to grant permission for the second user to view at least some of the personal data of the first user; and in response to the first user granting said permission, providing the second user access to at least some of the personal data of the first user via a contact information user interface of the service, such that the second user is provided access to data that would not otherwise be accessible to the second user via the service; wherein the method, including receiving and storing the personal data, providing the user interface, receiving the request, sending the notification, providing said option, and providing the second user access, is performed by a server computer system.

    13. A computer system that provides a service to users over a network, said computer system comprising a processor and a memory, an being programmed, via executable program instructions, to perform a method that comprises: receiving and storing personal data of a first user of the service, said personal data specified by the first user; providing a user interface for users to establish contact relationships with other users of the service such that each user can have one or more contacts, said user interface enabling a user to identify other users of the service, and to selectively initiate generation of requests to establish contact relationships with the identified users; receiving a request from a second user of the service to establish a contact relationship with the first user, said request submitted to the service over a network via said user interface; sending a notification of the request to the first user over a network; providing an option, in connection with said contact relationship, for the first user to grant permission for the second user to view at least some of the personal data of the first user; and in response to the first user granting said permission, providing the second user access to at least some of the personal data of the first user via a contact information user interface of the service, such that the second user is provided access to data that would not otherwise be accessible to the second user via the service.

    --
    hi!
  83. Ridiculous by SnugglesTheBear · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else see how that definition of a social network can easily be abstracted to the internet and its remote hosts?

    --
    Would you hug a bear?
  84. Re:Filed in 2008? Are they serious? by alexo · · Score: 1

    Couple things:

    - The date to beat is Nov. 2, 1997, not the 2008 filing date. That is, art after Nov. 2, 1997 is not prior art.
    From the patent: This application is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 11/022,089, filed Dec. 22, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,386,464 which is a division of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/780,486, filed Feb. 17, 2004, now U.S. Pat. No. 7,194,419 which is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/348,355, filed Jul. 7, 1999 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,714,916), which is a continuation of U.S. application Ser. No. 08/962,997, filed Nov. 2, 1997 (now U.S. Pat. No. 6,269,369).

    - The abstract of the patent, quoted above, is not the critical part. The claims are what determine infringement. Here, the claims are pretty broad and do seem to cover facebook.

    -- Patent Attorney

    Dear Patent Attorney,

    Please explain to us what is the reason behind allowing a company to modify a patent years after it was filed and have the modifications effectively backdated.

    Or am I missing something?

  85. Hahahah by paxcoder · · Score: 1

    a.