I'm frankly sick of the short-sighted attitude that gas is expensive in America and it is the fault of the oil companies. I'm an American living in the U.K. and gas is about $7 per gallon here. Every time a family member forwards me another stupid email about $3/gallon gas, I tell them to shut up already.
Gas companies in America could double gas prices if they were truly greedy, and people would still buy gas and still drive to work. Why can I say this? Because people in Harrogate, UK aren't put off by petrol that costs 95p/liter and they continue to go on with their normal driving routines, REGARDLESS of gas prices. Don't belive me? Try driving through any of the major roads at any time of any work day. Congestion is bad and it is all people in cars (and the occassional city bus).
I like microsoft products. They are much better and easier to use than Linux and Apple products.
It is hard to you seriously when you make such unsubstantiated claims of MS products being "better" and "easier to use". Perhaps if you inserted some evidence, even if it were anecdotal, I'd understand your sentiment better.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: make the driving test actually mean something, so there are less idiots on the road, thus lowering intersection collisions, thus requiring less idiot control devices (red lights).
Don't blame the cars, blame the idiots who design traffic lights (in America). Every small to medium town in America could eliminate more than half of the red light intersections by replacing the side streets with stop signs, and leaving light controls for only the most crucial of choke points/turn lanes, etc. Instead, nearly every block of any main street in America has a a light at every intersection.
Additionally, if every municipality under 200,000 population (roughly) would turn their side street red lights to blinking reds and the main road went to blinking yellows, I would never EVER have to stop in the middle of the night on an empty street and wait 3 minutes for the light to change.
Keep carrying on about fuel efficiency and public transportation if you'd like, but don't forget the real problem is the stupid red lights everywhere that are making 15 minute commutes take 35 minutes.
Made for TV is the logical progression for quite possibly the most overrated persona in movie history. Gee, I can't wait: Jar Jar Sings the Blues, maybe?
Success indeed has little to no relationship to good. I probably missed 7.0, because I remember people complaining about it, but never noticed. 5.0...ok, maybe my memory fades... HOWEVER, on modern hardware (i.e. the Macs in my house) there is NO video performance problem. My PC however, chokes on the Cover Flow view. I suppose if my PC were a Core 2 Duo, it would do better. Even my Core Duo Macbook (with supposed crappy video) handles Cover Flow view just fine. I don't play videos in iTunes. I have seen a few music videos (blame the wife), and they play...fine?
You still miss the very simple point that Apple no longer sells a single button mouse. The Mac mouse that comes with any new Mac has a left button a right button, a center scroll wheel that scrolls left to right and up and down AND is also button #3, and a side button. Obviously, based on most of these posts, people see the Mighty Mouse and its lack of physical buttons (other than the scroll button) and think..."Yep, another crappy single button mouse from Apple." The only part of that statement that is true is the "crappy" part, since it isn't a very good mouse. But then again, so is every mouse that comes with a Dell, HP, Sony, etc. If someone wants to argue that the Apple mouse is junk, they won't hear any argument from me. BUT...if you want to argue the OS has bad contextual menus, or that Mac OS only has one button functionality, I call you misinformed until I am blue in the face.
Experience with user interface and study of system design (specializing in user interface) are two entirely different things. To wit, take a look over on myspace.com and tell me that is some good design, because "anyone can do it" and "everyone has experience with" designing web sites.
ooof...no thanks. I'll leave UI design to pros, regardless of what Joe Consumer thinks.
It works great on a Mac, is all I'm saying, so the inference here is that it must be tough to develop the same quality software for the Windows environment. Or...Apple provides a half-ass attempt, knowing PC users are used to it and will just accept it. I run it on both platforms. Other than the fact it is a resource hog on the PC, it is a pretty sweet bit of software. The resource hog aspect goes away on the Mac platform (to be expected). What most people like to gripe about is the fact that iTunes is so closely related to the iPod and the Mac...things they HATE because they love their PCs, and they have no equivalent. I guess a Zune plus the Zune marketplace is pretty sweet?
My palm has never caused a right click function on the track pad, because the track pad requires two distinct input devices (i.e. fingers). The same cannot be said for the horrible clicky Sony laptops I've used. Granted, the track pad does require more dexterity than the average user is ready for. My wife turns it off, because she has a hard time controlling it. Again, it's all in giving the user options. Sure, Apple should probably add a physical button for PC centric cross over users and users not used to using a trackpad. In these instances, I suppose you are right about the lack of a physical button. Still, a button is hardly a reason to avoid a product. At worst, it is a philosophical difference that makes very little difference in the daily use of the machine. Think of it this way: if your right mouse button broke, would you no longer be able to use your computer, especially when there are at least three other ways to achieve the same function?
With Windows, you don't permanently delete a file with the delete key (by default). It is simply moved to the recycle bin, with the obligatory annoying popup dialogue asking you if you are sure.
You can't permanently delete a windows file with one keystroke either, but you can set your system up to do so. Why would you be so harsh on Mac, when Windows is guilty of the same thing? With the default settings, neither system allows for single key permanent delete, yet both systems allow you to configure to do so. What makes me laugh is the number of Windows apologists that claim it can't be done on a mac.
First of all, I NEVER SAID left handers don't know their right from their left. I said that average users don't know what "right click" is used for and that a left handed person using a mouse makes the concept of "right-click" that much more confusing. Does a lefty right click on the right mouse button? Yes, if they are using a mouse configured for right handed use, but no, if they are using a left handed mouse with the buttons swapped. It adds to the already confusing concept.
Regarding the 1-button mouse. You are the one who trolled the post inferring that Macs only use 1-button. Since I called you out, all you can come up with is that Mac OS X contextual menus suck compared to Windows. Care to give examples? The fact remains that the one button simplicity exists, or you can use the two buttons, the scroll wheel or the side buttons on any new Mac mouse. Or you can use ANY USB mouse. I don't understand why you think that Microsoft has a monopoly on third party mouse support? The point is, with Mac OS X you have options. Use a single button mouse, multi-button mouse, click and hold, key combos, whatever...its up to the user. Anytime people criticize the way a Mac works, I'm glad to offer alternative methods.
"I would just ask if you are going to criticize something, please get the easy facts straight first."
I would say the same to you. What's scary is thinking that you actually train teachers. Pay must not be too good.
I'm not the one criticizing anything. My facts are straight because I know that lame attempts to slam non-existent 1-button Macs are irrelevant 10-year old arguments posed by biased individuals. Would you like to point out anything I've said that is factually incorrect? Just because you don't like Macs doesn't mean they only have one mouse button.
Educational Technologists, for the record, are paid similar to administrators, depending on experience. Someone like myself, with a Grad degree in Educational Technology makes anywhere from $75,000 a year and up. I'm quite happy with my salary, thank you.
You are correct in stating left handers adapt in a right-handed world, but that doesn't help me as a trainer. It actually only makes the situation more confusing. Now I have to ask the left hander if he is using a right-handed mouse with the right handed mouse button actions, or if he has configured it for left handed use (i.e., swapped the buttons). More importantly, MOST people I work with don't fully understand the contextual menu feature anyway, so the point is moot. Two buttons confuse otherwise intelligent people. I see it everyday when I'm trying to teach said intelligent people how to use computers.
Put it this way, if you were in charge of training a staff of 50 people on how to use computers, and even after 10 two-hour training sessions (not to mention daily use of computers), 35 of them still don't understand right-clicking, you might understand why single mouse button functions are better for user interface.
Again, another wiseguy that doesn't actually do this for a living. YOU may think it sounds easy, but YOU are a presumably a geek.
A left handed person using their left hand on the mouse normally sets their mouse up for the right mouse button to be the primary click, and the left mouse button to be the "right-click". When I'm conducting a seminar that requires right-clicking, this means "left-click" to a left handed user. But...in a school, the mice are setup for right handed users, so therefore, they are either forced to use their right hand, or to do all the clicks in the exact opposite term I use. If you take into consideration that most normal, non-power using people don't understand the purpose of contextual menus, the confusion just gets worse. I'm not saying teachers are stupid, I'm just saying that what is easy for you geeks here on slashdot is NOT easy to other people in other professions. If you don't believe me, just peruse any number of slashdot articles that are summarized as: "Why are reasonably intelligent professionals so stupid when it comes to using computers?"
...except for the fact that left handed teachers and students have to SHARE the mouse in most schools. Then, when teaching a staff of 20, about the third time I say "now right click on the desktop", 15 of the right handers say "what?" and the left handers ask "do you mean my right mouse button, which is my left mouse button, or do you mean the mouse button on the right?".
You really should work in computer education to understand...
sometimes a little diagram with a print out for them to keep near by will help more than you giving them a mac mouse and then teaching them to hold down a button on the keyboard while clicking.
Or I'd just hold up an Apple mouse, or more realistically, any USB mouse, and tell them that the button on the right is the right mouse button, and works just like a right click in Windows. Why must you people keep harping on the lack of right mouse functionality, when that was addressed sometime around 1997?
Again, with the MacBooks and the pros..turn on the pad click and right click functionality. Every time someone takes a dig at what a Mac can't do, there is always a simple comeback. Inform yourselves about the competition before you try to shoot it down. Just because it isn't the default setting doesn't mean it isn't there. Ok, so there isn't a physical right button. I've been using Macs and PCs since the 80s, and I've never missed a physical right mouse button below the trackpad. If anything, this is the one time I actually support "less-is-more", since our palms rest near those buttons all the time...I see people constantly evoking right click contextual menus without ever realizing why.
Well my "ghetto" consists of other educational technology specialists, many of whom have written books, all of whom have published works and ALL of whom who recognize the importance of Apple Human Interface Design guidelines. If it is so outdated, then why then, do the majority of professionals in my field use it as THE authoratative reference? Why do such mundane items like cash registers and ATM machines refer to it? Why did every graduate level course I took in System Design require this document? In Tom Kelley's book The Art of Innovation (2001), he references Apple's innovation 11 times. Microsoft is mentioned once, and even then, it mentions Microsoft Word for the Macintosh. To deny Apple's continuing innovation in the field of personal computing while simultaneously lauding Microsoft, shows a stunning lack of historical perspective.
When there is a devoted science to UI, backed by years of academic research, it cracks me up to see every random hack on slashdot claim they know what is better. Why should anyone listen to some 20-year-old slashdot "power user" that has spent half their life meddling in MS operating systems?
Unlike your cirlces, I LIKE my cult of well paid educational technologists. We speak of what we know, not what we think.
I love it! iTunes is an insanely successful program. The PC crowd just can't stand the fact that Apple makes good stuff. To some extent, iTunes on my PC can be a resource hog, but this is hardly Apple's fault. Afterall, the Mac version has been nearly flawless in every iteration for years now. I'm still waiting for boolean searches, but each new version of iTunes is awesome.
Every PC zealot I know will claim some other jukebox software is somehow superior, yet everyone I try is trash. For average consumers, iTunes + music store has NO competition...period.
Maybe you anti iTunes guys should try it on a Mac for a month, and your opinions might change.
now with a mac, if I hit command + delete, the file goes to my recycle bin. great. but then if I just want to permanently delete 1 file, I have to open my recycle bin and then there still isn't a logical way to select one file for permanent deletion.
Actually, this show you really don't know what you are doing with your Mac that you hate so much. Spend some time with the Help function, and you'll see that you can indeed change system settings to one key, permanently deleted files...bypassing the default safety net set by Apple Human Interface Design guidelines. Just because you don't like the default settings doesn't make it bad. Change it. Set whatever key you want to move a file to the trash, and set the system to automatically delete files moved to the trash. You're crazy to do so, but at least you have the option.
And this is why the science of UI is so important. Users WILL make mistakes. Why is everyone so quick to blame the user? To the UI designer, this is like blaming the customer. If the users are making mistakes, it is the UI designer's job to make mistakes less likely, or less damaging when they do happen. Based on the posts so far, most of you don't understand this, which also explains the lax attitude and willingness to accept such poor UI choices from Microsoft the past 10 years.
since the command key is so overused (thank you, unimouse),
Sorry to address the same post a second time, but I have to correct more misinformation. Again, the 1-button mouse argument hasn't been relevant since the mid 90s. Even if you have a one button Mac mouse, it isn't the command key that is used to access contextual menus. For that, you can either click and hold for a moment, or hold down the CONTROL key (not the command). Therefore, there is no risk, since the control key is used much less than the command key.
I, on the other hand, just prefer to right click.
And for those of you who think that right mouse buttons are not confusing, you need to watch normal people use computers. I work in a school and my job is to train teachers how to use computers. Most teachers can't follow simple instructions like "right-click on the desktop". Also, left-handed teachers have to share computers with right-handed teachers (and students too). Don't tell me that telling a left-handed user to "right-click" on something isn't confusing. Come work with me for a day.
I would just ask if you are going to criticize something, please get the easy facts straight first.
I don't follow you at all. XP/Vista's design are bad because hitting a key called delete prompts for you to answer did you mean to delete the item(S) and if you click yes it does?
But to delete under OS X i hold command and delete and that makes more sense?
Yes and yes. In the first case, something accidentally gets moved to the recycle bin, ESPECIALLY since users are prone to just click OK when faced with too many prompts. In the Mac case, the user had to go out of their way to invoke the action. With such a specific key combo, there is virtually no chance that the user was trying to do anything OTHER than move the file to the trash, so there is no need to prompt the user.
Slashdot Mirror
Gas companies in America could double gas prices if they were truly greedy, and people would still buy gas and still drive to work. Why can I say this? Because people in Harrogate, UK aren't put off by petrol that costs 95p/liter and they continue to go on with their normal driving routines, REGARDLESS of gas prices. Don't belive me? Try driving through any of the major roads at any time of any work day. Congestion is bad and it is all people in cars (and the occassional city bus).
(please feel free to add the word "take" after the fourth word...I suck.)
It is hard to you seriously when you make such unsubstantiated claims of MS products being "better" and "easier to use". Perhaps if you inserted some evidence, even if it were anecdotal, I'd understand your sentiment better.
I fail to see how liking warm showers makes me lazy. It actually takes more work to get my shower to turn to hot than it does to take a cold shower.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: make the driving test actually mean something, so there are less idiots on the road, thus lowering intersection collisions, thus requiring less idiot control devices (red lights).
Additionally, if every municipality under 200,000 population (roughly) would turn their side street red lights to blinking reds and the main road went to blinking yellows, I would never EVER have to stop in the middle of the night on an empty street and wait 3 minutes for the light to change.
Keep carrying on about fuel efficiency and public transportation if you'd like, but don't forget the real problem is the stupid red lights everywhere that are making 15 minute commutes take 35 minutes.
Made for TV is the logical progression for quite possibly the most overrated persona in movie history. Gee, I can't wait: Jar Jar Sings the Blues, maybe?
Success indeed has little to no relationship to good. I probably missed 7.0, because I remember people complaining about it, but never noticed. 5.0...ok, maybe my memory fades... HOWEVER, on modern hardware (i.e. the Macs in my house) there is NO video performance problem. My PC however, chokes on the Cover Flow view. I suppose if my PC were a Core 2 Duo, it would do better. Even my Core Duo Macbook (with supposed crappy video) handles Cover Flow view just fine. I don't play videos in iTunes. I have seen a few music videos (blame the wife), and they play...fine?
You still miss the very simple point that Apple no longer sells a single button mouse. The Mac mouse that comes with any new Mac has a left button a right button, a center scroll wheel that scrolls left to right and up and down AND is also button #3, and a side button. Obviously, based on most of these posts, people see the Mighty Mouse and its lack of physical buttons (other than the scroll button) and think..."Yep, another crappy single button mouse from Apple." The only part of that statement that is true is the "crappy" part, since it isn't a very good mouse. But then again, so is every mouse that comes with a Dell, HP, Sony, etc. If someone wants to argue that the Apple mouse is junk, they won't hear any argument from me. BUT...if you want to argue the OS has bad contextual menus, or that Mac OS only has one button functionality, I call you misinformed until I am blue in the face.
ooof...no thanks. I'll leave UI design to pros, regardless of what Joe Consumer thinks.
It works great on a Mac, is all I'm saying, so the inference here is that it must be tough to develop the same quality software for the Windows environment. Or...Apple provides a half-ass attempt, knowing PC users are used to it and will just accept it. I run it on both platforms. Other than the fact it is a resource hog on the PC, it is a pretty sweet bit of software. The resource hog aspect goes away on the Mac platform (to be expected). What most people like to gripe about is the fact that iTunes is so closely related to the iPod and the Mac...things they HATE because they love their PCs, and they have no equivalent. I guess a Zune plus the Zune marketplace is pretty sweet?
My palm has never caused a right click function on the track pad, because the track pad requires two distinct input devices (i.e. fingers). The same cannot be said for the horrible clicky Sony laptops I've used. Granted, the track pad does require more dexterity than the average user is ready for. My wife turns it off, because she has a hard time controlling it. Again, it's all in giving the user options. Sure, Apple should probably add a physical button for PC centric cross over users and users not used to using a trackpad. In these instances, I suppose you are right about the lack of a physical button. Still, a button is hardly a reason to avoid a product. At worst, it is a philosophical difference that makes very little difference in the daily use of the machine. Think of it this way: if your right mouse button broke, would you no longer be able to use your computer, especially when there are at least three other ways to achieve the same function?
You can't permanently delete a windows file with one keystroke either, but you can set your system up to do so. Why would you be so harsh on Mac, when Windows is guilty of the same thing? With the default settings, neither system allows for single key permanent delete, yet both systems allow you to configure to do so. What makes me laugh is the number of Windows apologists that claim it can't be done on a mac.
Regarding the 1-button mouse. You are the one who trolled the post inferring that Macs only use 1-button. Since I called you out, all you can come up with is that Mac OS X contextual menus suck compared to Windows. Care to give examples? The fact remains that the one button simplicity exists, or you can use the two buttons, the scroll wheel or the side buttons on any new Mac mouse. Or you can use ANY USB mouse. I don't understand why you think that Microsoft has a monopoly on third party mouse support? The point is, with Mac OS X you have options. Use a single button mouse, multi-button mouse, click and hold, key combos, whatever...its up to the user. Anytime people criticize the way a Mac works, I'm glad to offer alternative methods.
I'm not the one criticizing anything. My facts are straight because I know that lame attempts to slam non-existent 1-button Macs are irrelevant 10-year old arguments posed by biased individuals. Would you like to point out anything I've said that is factually incorrect? Just because you don't like Macs doesn't mean they only have one mouse button.Educational Technologists, for the record, are paid similar to administrators, depending on experience. Someone like myself, with a Grad degree in Educational Technology makes anywhere from $75,000 a year and up. I'm quite happy with my salary, thank you.
Put it this way, if you were in charge of training a staff of 50 people on how to use computers, and even after 10 two-hour training sessions (not to mention daily use of computers), 35 of them still don't understand right-clicking, you might understand why single mouse button functions are better for user interface.
A left handed person using their left hand on the mouse normally sets their mouse up for the right mouse button to be the primary click, and the left mouse button to be the "right-click". When I'm conducting a seminar that requires right-clicking, this means "left-click" to a left handed user. But...in a school, the mice are setup for right handed users, so therefore, they are either forced to use their right hand, or to do all the clicks in the exact opposite term I use. If you take into consideration that most normal, non-power using people don't understand the purpose of contextual menus, the confusion just gets worse. I'm not saying teachers are stupid, I'm just saying that what is easy for you geeks here on slashdot is NOT easy to other people in other professions. If you don't believe me, just peruse any number of slashdot articles that are summarized as: "Why are reasonably intelligent professionals so stupid when it comes to using computers?"
You really should work in computer education to understand...
Or I'd just hold up an Apple mouse, or more realistically, any USB mouse, and tell them that the button on the right is the right mouse button, and works just like a right click in Windows. Why must you people keep harping on the lack of right mouse functionality, when that was addressed sometime around 1997?Again, with the MacBooks and the pros..turn on the pad click and right click functionality. Every time someone takes a dig at what a Mac can't do, there is always a simple comeback. Inform yourselves about the competition before you try to shoot it down. Just because it isn't the default setting doesn't mean it isn't there. Ok, so there isn't a physical right button. I've been using Macs and PCs since the 80s, and I've never missed a physical right mouse button below the trackpad. If anything, this is the one time I actually support "less-is-more", since our palms rest near those buttons all the time...I see people constantly evoking right click contextual menus without ever realizing why.
When there is a devoted science to UI, backed by years of academic research, it cracks me up to see every random hack on slashdot claim they know what is better. Why should anyone listen to some 20-year-old slashdot "power user" that has spent half their life meddling in MS operating systems?
Unlike your cirlces, I LIKE my cult of well paid educational technologists. We speak of what we know, not what we think.
Every PC zealot I know will claim some other jukebox software is somehow superior, yet everyone I try is trash. For average consumers, iTunes + music store has NO competition...period.
Maybe you anti iTunes guys should try it on a Mac for a month, and your opinions might change.
And this is why the science of UI is so important. Users WILL make mistakes. Why is everyone so quick to blame the user? To the UI designer, this is like blaming the customer. If the users are making mistakes, it is the UI designer's job to make mistakes less likely, or less damaging when they do happen. Based on the posts so far, most of you don't understand this, which also explains the lax attitude and willingness to accept such poor UI choices from Microsoft the past 10 years.
Slashdot has been over this many times...too many dialogue boxes and people stop reading them and just choose the default...bad UI
I, on the other hand, just prefer to right click.
And for those of you who think that right mouse buttons are not confusing, you need to watch normal people use computers. I work in a school and my job is to train teachers how to use computers. Most teachers can't follow simple instructions like "right-click on the desktop". Also, left-handed teachers have to share computers with right-handed teachers (and students too). Don't tell me that telling a left-handed user to "right-click" on something isn't confusing. Come work with me for a day.
I would just ask if you are going to criticize something, please get the easy facts straight first.