Not too many users (most users or the newest Macs, esp. the iMac, natch), but I wouldn't mind being about to plug my keyboard and mouse into the USB bus instead of PS/2 ports, or an AT keyboard port and a serial port. Also, the 2.3.x kernel has developing USB support (guess keyboards and mics both work now, and sound support is in the works), so we are on the way.
Amen. Another/. poster said it best, and I'm paraphrasing: "A computer is a tool like a space shuttle is a tool, not like a hammer." People expect a computer to be as simple as using a screwdriver, but it's not that kind of tool.
And on the topic of features that the general public rarely (if ever) uses: Multitasking. Most people I know who are computer newbies will start a program, and instead of just going and starting another program, they save their work and completely exit the program they're running, then start the other program they want to run. So does that mean that we should remove multitasking too, since so many people don't use THAT either?
Basically, it's a DSP with a little bit of RAM and a couple of phone jacks wired together and plugged into the ISA (or PCI) bus, and DSP code is downloaded on demand by software drivers to tell the DSP how to act like a modem.
NT isn't directly based on VMS, but there were several people (including one David Cutler, one of the chief architects of VMS) who had worked at Digital on VMS who Microsoft scooped up to help develop NT. So it does borrow a lot of concepts from VMS, but not code.
Yes, but not as themable as some GUIs on top of Linux. You can't change the look of widgets in applications (like you can with Gtk+, and maybe Qt - I don't know, I don't follow Qt much). You can't put pixmaps in titlebars. Hell, you can't do anywhere near what you could with E. (I don't use E, but I'd say E is something of a pinnacle in the flexibility department) You can change a few font sizes, the wallpaper, and some colors. That's not very much in the way of themability.
He's not saying better for EVERY processor, just specifically for Pentium and better (?) Intel CPUs and other similar CPUs (I'm guessing on the latter account)...
MW3 on Linux won't likely happen, for one important reason: FASA is now owned by Microsoft. I don't think they'd be too big on MicroProse porting it to Linux (and I just can't see MicroProse doing it, or allowing Loki to do it).
Am I the only one who thinks this is the dumbest thing they have ever heard/read? (considering those who are generally most in-the-know are the administrators, and the people who are doing all the "Web surfing" are largely morons...)
I think the TiK AOL Instant Messenger (written in Tcl/Tk, uses the TOC protocol) client is still available, and there're other clients available that also use the TOC protocol (gAIM, for example). There are also open-source ICQ-compatible messaging tools (LICQ, GtkICQ, etc), as well as Jabber, which intends to support as many instant-messaging protocols as possible - I think TOC and ICQ protocols are both supported (check out their pages, though - I don't use it myself).
Well, even if they released their MSN Messenger client as open source (not likely), it'd all be Win32 code, so a lot of it would have to be rewritten into other APIs (POSIX APIs for system interaction, Qt/Gtk+/Motif/etc. for GUI, and whatever else)... so it wouldn't be pretty. I certainly wouldn't want to mess with it.
Except this has NOTHING to do with open source. Also, apparently Microsoft didn't use the mostly-open TOC protocol that clients like TiK use, but the unpublished one that the "official" Windows/Mac AIM clients use. It has to do with protocols, at least mostly. I bet AOL wouldn't have cared as much if Microsoft had used the TOC protocol instead, but that's just not good enough for Microsoft, I guess...
Exactly. Ever the hypocritical company, Microsoft calls for a standard when they're not winning, only to provide an incompatible hack of a program supposedly based on "standards" and flood the market with it. Then, ta da, one more market under their control. Gee, can you even feature it?
Also, the people producing clients for alternate platforms (Unix/Linux) aren't making money from it. Microsoft may not make money directly, but with advertising attached to it, you can bet they will.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that they seem to be worrying about "critical" systems being taken down? I think that's a ridiculous claim - if they have anything more critical than a Web or shell server connected to the Internet, then I say they deserve what they get, and every geek should make his/her way to DC for a mass mooning of the White House.
Probably because they want to help draft the IETF standard (like with some other things - like CSS, DOM, DHTML...) then prove their true colors by providing only a broken implementation of said "open" standard.
To those who say "Maybe they'll actually do right by users this time", I say this: Maybe, but I think it'll probably be a cold day in hell before they do.
It doesn't say they're using IETF's messaging protocol - mainly because the protocol specs still haven't come off the drawing board, to my knowledge. I don't know what protocol M$'s messaging client is using to talk to their own service, but it's not IETF's IMPP (Internet Messaging and Presence Protocol), since it's not finished.
Well, this sounds like the kind of thing that's been said about Microsoft products before - the first version's small and lightweight, and everyone thinks it's just wonderful. Then later releases start stuffing in more fluff and bloat, steadily growing in size.
Well, of course they love standards, when they're not winning. When they're already on top, standards be damned, they're going to do it their own way, and you'll damn well pay for it too.
They only love their precious 'standards' when it suits them...
Okay, maybe my sarcasm was uncalled for. I just happen to think 'ethics' is a rather important word. (And one that certain businesses and gov't officials need to be reintroduced to.) Were it ANY other word, I mightn't have said anything about it.
Also, some misspellings are simple finger missteps. I've had a few of those. But actually not knowing the spelling of that particular word strikes me as rather odd.
I'm sorry for any hurt feelings, but that's just the way I see it.
I'd like to see them mend their ways - don't get me wrong. However, I have a hard time believing they'd mend their ways so easily. They have a simply pitiful track record, and I believe that they'll continue following their track record until there's some (very pressing) reason for them to do otherwise (like losing tens of millions of dollars because no one will buy their crappy products anymore). I see no reason to believe they'd do anything new though - there's no money in it.
Also, like you noted, rather ironic that something so simple took them 2 years to develop.
Maybe I'm just being an insufferable prick... but to some degree, turnabout is fair play.
Well, the AOL spokesperson has a point. You have no real idea what Microsoft's client is doing with the password you give it (unless you do 'netstat' or similar while it's running) other than what it's claimed to do. For the average user, they're not going to have any IDEA that maybe M$'s messaging client is doing a bit more than it advertises. Maybe it doesn't do anything more, but it's hard to say. I wouldnt trust it, that's for damn sure.
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Not too many users (most users or the newest Macs, esp. the iMac, natch), but I wouldn't mind being about to plug my keyboard and mouse into the USB bus instead of PS/2 ports, or an AT keyboard port and a serial port. Also, the 2.3.x kernel has developing USB support (guess keyboards and mics both work now, and sound support is in the works), so we are on the way.
Amen. Another /. poster said it best, and I'm paraphrasing: "A computer is a tool like a space shuttle is a tool, not like a hammer." People expect a computer to be as simple as using a screwdriver, but it's not that kind of tool.
And on the topic of features that the general public rarely (if ever) uses: Multitasking. Most people I know who are computer newbies will start a program, and instead of just going and starting another program, they save their work and completely exit the program they're running, then start the other program they want to run. So does that mean that we should remove multitasking too, since so many people don't use THAT either?
Basically, it's a DSP with a little bit of RAM and a couple of phone jacks wired together and plugged into the ISA (or PCI) bus, and DSP code is downloaded on demand by software drivers to tell the DSP how to act like a modem.
It's cheapo hardware, basically...
NT isn't directly based on VMS, but there were several people (including one David Cutler, one of the chief architects of VMS) who had worked at Digital on VMS who Microsoft scooped up to help develop NT. So it does borrow a lot of concepts from VMS, but not code.
Yes, but not as themable as some GUIs on top of Linux. You can't change the look of widgets in applications (like you can with Gtk+, and maybe Qt - I don't know, I don't follow Qt much). You can't put pixmaps in titlebars. Hell, you can't do anywhere near what you could with E. (I don't use E, but I'd say E is something of a pinnacle in the flexibility department) You can change a few font sizes, the wallpaper, and some colors. That's not very much in the way of themability.
That's correct. (Yes, I know,a short message like this is almost not worth it, but I figured I may as well confirm it for anyone who isn't sure.)
He's not saying better for EVERY processor, just specifically for Pentium and better (?) Intel CPUs and other similar CPUs (I'm guessing on the latter account)...
MW3 on Linux won't likely happen, for one important reason: FASA is now owned by Microsoft. I don't think they'd be too big on MicroProse porting it to Linux (and I just can't see MicroProse doing it, or allowing Loki to do it).
Am I the only one who thinks this is the dumbest thing they have ever heard/read? (considering those who are generally most in-the-know are the administrators, and the people who are doing all the "Web surfing" are largely morons...)
I think the TiK AOL Instant Messenger (written in Tcl/Tk, uses the TOC protocol) client is still available, and there're other clients available that also use the TOC protocol (gAIM, for example). There are also open-source ICQ-compatible messaging tools (LICQ, GtkICQ, etc), as well as Jabber, which intends to support as many instant-messaging protocols as possible - I think TOC and ICQ protocols are both supported (check out their pages, though - I don't use it myself).
Well, even if they released their MSN Messenger client as open source (not likely), it'd all be Win32 code, so a lot of it would have to be rewritten into other APIs (POSIX APIs for system interaction, Qt/Gtk+/Motif/etc. for GUI, and whatever else)... so it wouldn't be pretty. I certainly wouldn't want to mess with it.
Except this has NOTHING to do with open source. Also, apparently Microsoft didn't use the mostly-open TOC protocol that clients like TiK use, but the unpublished one that the "official" Windows/Mac AIM clients use. It has to do with protocols, at least mostly. I bet AOL wouldn't have cared as much if Microsoft had used the TOC protocol instead, but that's just not good enough for Microsoft, I guess...
Exactly. Ever the hypocritical company, Microsoft calls for a standard when they're not winning, only to provide an incompatible hack of a program supposedly based on "standards" and flood the market with it. Then, ta da, one more market under their control. Gee, can you even feature it?
Also, the people producing clients for alternate platforms (Unix/Linux) aren't making money from it. Microsoft may not make money directly, but with advertising attached to it, you can bet they will.
Am I the only one who finds it odd that they seem to be worrying about "critical" systems being taken down? I think that's a ridiculous claim - if they have anything more critical than a Web or shell server connected to the Internet, then I say they deserve what they get, and every geek should make his/her way to DC for a mass mooning of the White House.
Oh. I wasn't really aware of how far they'd gotten in the process of drawing up the protocol. Well, that's news to me...
Probably because they want to help draft the IETF standard (like with some other things - like CSS, DOM, DHTML...) then prove their true colors by providing only a broken implementation of said "open" standard.
To those who say "Maybe they'll actually do right by users this time", I say this: Maybe, but I think it'll probably be a cold day in hell before they do.
It doesn't say they're using IETF's messaging protocol - mainly because the protocol specs still haven't come off the drawing board, to my knowledge. I don't know what protocol M$'s messaging client is using to talk to their own service, but it's not IETF's IMPP (Internet Messaging and Presence Protocol), since it's not finished.
Don't read in things that aren't actually said.
Well, this sounds like the kind of thing that's been said about Microsoft products before - the first version's small and lightweight, and everyone thinks it's just wonderful. Then later releases start stuffing in more fluff and bloat, steadily growing in size.
I wouldn't mind being wrong about this.
Massaging area? Oooh. Do they do Swedish massages? I could use one right now, I think... :)
Well, this IS just the first version. If it's successful enough, v2 will be coming down the pipe. And you KNOW what that means...
Well, of course they love standards, when they're not winning. When they're already on top, standards be damned, they're going to do it their own way, and you'll damn well pay for it too.
They only love their precious 'standards' when it suits them...
Okay, maybe my sarcasm was uncalled for. I just happen to think 'ethics' is a rather important word. (And one that certain businesses and gov't officials need to be reintroduced to.) Were it ANY other word, I mightn't have said anything about it.
Also, some misspellings are simple finger missteps. I've had a few of those. But actually not knowing the spelling of that particular word strikes me as rather odd.
I'm sorry for any hurt feelings, but that's just the way I see it.
I'd like to see them mend their ways - don't get me wrong. However, I have a hard time believing they'd mend their ways so easily. They have a simply pitiful track record, and I believe that they'll continue following their track record until there's some (very pressing) reason for them to do otherwise (like losing tens of millions of dollars because no one will buy their crappy products anymore). I see no reason to believe they'd do anything new though - there's no money in it.
Also, like you noted, rather ironic that something so simple took them 2 years to develop.
Maybe I'm just being an insufferable prick... but to some degree, turnabout is fair play.
Well, the AOL spokesperson has a point. You have no real idea what Microsoft's client is doing with the password you give it (unless you do 'netstat' or similar while it's running) other than what it's claimed to do. For the average user, they're not going to have any IDEA that maybe M$'s messaging client is doing a bit more than it advertises. Maybe it doesn't do anything more, but it's hard to say. I wouldnt trust it, that's for damn sure.