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CNet Article On 2.4 Kernel
jho writes "This C|Net article talks about how the Linux 2.4 kernel, armed with Firewire, PnP and USB support, will be better equiped to tackle the desktop market. It's a intresting read as far as how Linux is being pushed to the mainstream. Have a look. "
What valid point? 2.4 is being developed currently, out in the open. It's called 2.3. That's how the numbering scheme works. 2.3 is the development track for 2.4.
Reporting on what the kernel developers are doing is not a "vaporware" article; it is perfectly valid.
Vaporware is when you *announce* software that is never delivered. That doesn't happen with the Linux kernel, therefore his point is invalid.
All I saw in his post was anti-Linux whining.
Bashing Linux and the GPL on Slashdot is the current trendy thing to do. It really stinks.
The moderation of the previous reply proves the point.
>As others have mentioned before, WinNT is based on Dec's VMS, an OS that is of the same vintage as Unix
Hymm, I have always been told that NT is what Microsoft took away from the IBM/Microsoft joint venture called OS/2. They split in the late 80s, early 90s. IBM kept the name, but much of that technology was used by microsoft for NT. correct me if I am wrong, but isn't NTFS a highly modified version of HPFS on OS/2. perhaps the OS/2 project had roots in VMS, I'm not sure...
Time to get a grip. Why support broken hardware? Nuff said.
There is a fully functional generic plug and play module in ALSA, which is AFAIK going to go into the Kernel.
--jake
>the same OS that's preferred by hardcore hackers can be turned into a >newbie-friendly system -- without sacrificing stability or >functionality. Linux has room for everyone.
Execept for Windows-using,Winmodem-loving script-kiddies like yourself. We "hard-core linux hackers" don't want or need your kind.
>USB gamepads are nice (you can daisy-chain 4 of them for multiplayer >games), etc.
Who cares? I play games on the Playstation, not the PC these days, and I really don't have the slightest interest in digital cameras (USB or otherwise.)
> CP/M was based on Unix...
:-) ) since IMO drive letters (or the CP/M/DOS way to access different floppy/hard-drives) is something that is ridiculous, absolutly obsolete and doesn't belong in any modern OS at all.
/dev/hdb) /dev/something in any file pat. Users and their tools will never touch them.
This doesn't work that good upwards, i.e. it doesn't make Unix any worse. Of course you can build a bad product starting with the ideas from a good one.
> Your point?
My point was to make joke (hence the
> Unix invented drive letters (/dev/hda
These are not drive letters, it's just a way to enumerate physical devices. You will never see
Is this supposed to be a good thing?
Or is it the RedHat-going-public sort of "good" thing?
Regards,
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Normally you would want to support hardware X, because there are people who have it and want to use it...
;^)
Besides, the winmodem hardware is not broken. Even the concept is not broken unless you want use them on a multitasking non-realtime system (like WinXX or Linux
Linmodems....hehehe..
"Gravity must be scholastic occult quality or the effect of a miracle."
Ummmm not quite.
Linux is based entirely on old unix ideas. The
way the kernel is structured, for example. A lot
of code in Linux (not the kernel, but the other
main parts of the OS) come from GPL'd code from
other Unices. On top of that, how old is Linux?
On the other hand, BeOS has POSIX compliancy...
and that's it from legacy land. The rest of it
is all new tech. I don't think we need to rehash
the list of cool features to illustrate that.
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Actually I am a happy Linux user, but as most of us around here know, Linux isn't for everyone--yet. That's why there needs to be a debate, and you can't very well have a debate if no one contradicts your point. Linux will achieve "world domination" only after the developers scratch every itch.
DOS is a rip off of CP/M while the core of NT was originally from VMS. NT was giving drive letters and a bunch of other silly stuff so it looks like DOS. Then DOS/Windows was giving a bunch of silly things to make it work like NT. So basicly NT and Dos are completely silly.
I always thought the accepted definiton of vaporware was 'software that is announced but doesn't ship (yet)'. Thus Win2K is vaporware too. Am I wrong here?
How courageous of you: bashing a project to which people generously donate their time. This place gets uglier by the day.
At the time I post this, they're about 34 replys. I want to first start by saying clearly "I LOVE LINUX"
Now for the flaming part:
Why is it that the Linux community, for the most part can't accept a little press awareness or a little humor? I am a member of MDLUG (Metro Detroit Linux Users Group) and recently someone posted a funny site that was sarcatic to "Micorsoft" (as he put it), and the group went mad about it. Slam after slam was posted about how STUPID this guy was and I thought his site was hilarious (sorry I don't have the URL handy). I laughed my ass off.
Now CNET is paying attention to Kernel 2.4... so what, big deal. The direction that Linux goes is controlled by what the Linux community wants and what the developers are interested in. God bless the people with that kind of knowledge.
The point of the whole CNET article was that things like USB and Firewire were being worked on, who knows if it will actually be implemented or how stable it will be. As of right now Linux is still geared at people who are computer literate, but I think thats soon to change, especially if things like USB are implemented.
Enough said... now will the uptight people in the Linux community please take a minute to pull the underware out of the crack of their ass' and just be glad that Linux is getting press time? Linux is serious but even Linus said it should be a little fun, and comments like most of these are worthless attempts to slam people that don't know as much as you do.
IMHO, it's just as bad as M$ taking advantage of people's ignorance by hiding the fact that Win98 is version 4.1 and Win95 is version 4.0, how many people realized that? Not many I'll bet, atleast until they spent $89 on it.
Well, my system came with a WinModem--something I did not know at the time, as the provider merely said it was a "56Kflex internal modem." I was really disgusted with it even before attempting to install Linux. Reasons:
- About 1/3 of the time, when I connected, the modem would make an odd noise and reset the entire system, as if I'd turned the power off.
- No blinking status lights to show what's really going on.
- Can't seem to coexist happily with the external modem I bought to replace it. Win98 refuses to connect at a speed higher than 4800 baud to the external, but works with the internal just fine. (I'm yanking the WinModem soon, of course.)
The first item is, of course, the most troubling--especially with Linux; do you really want to have all your data scribbled because the modem acts up and resets everything in the middle of a disk write? Well, the more hardware supported, the better, I guess. I just hope WinModems will be required to carry labels warning of the power-hit problem.Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.
Impossible? Never is anything impossible... The thing is why would we want to have Winmodem support? So it can make Linux as crappy as Windows? PNP support doesn't mean Winmodems man :) Just support for the devices so we don't have to do ISAPNP config files hehe
Full Firewire support probably will appear first in the PowerPC distributions. Just like USB is more usable on the PowerPC, because, well, they need it. (to prove my point... iMac.)
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
What Metcalfe tried to say was that the technology in Linux has not evolved very far. Many of its design paradigms have been superseded, not necessarily by Win95, but by 30 years of OS research in general. And let's not even talk about the UI (or lack thereof - for all but the most primitive tasks), that's still pure 70's.
So what if we can put pixmaps on a friggen toolbar! Windows can't be themed as much as our Unix GUIs? I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut! It just doesn't matter. Fact remains, most people stick with the default look anyhow. Themes are just a silly add on with no functional purpose. Form over Function. There is no substance to your argument.
Corndog
Well, you can tell linux is going mainstream when the press starts commenting on the latest linux vaporware. 2.4 isn't out yet. It doesn't have all the features listed in the article in the kernel source. Reminds me of how the press treats a certain Redmond-based company - "w2k will have xyzzy feature - blowing away the competition!".
Okay, mark me down now - I've spoken blasphemy against the holy os...
--
I've been thinking about this for a while, and it's something I would be interested in helping with. But their's no way I could start or manage such a project, at least not until I graduate. I'm willing to donate time, moeny, & HW if anyone else in my area is doing something like this.
The press are reporting on features which are currently in the beta release.
Linux 2.4 is pure vapor.
Some of us care. I don't like Windows' default look - it's ugly. And there's not a hell of a lot that I can do to make it "un-ugly". For the "average (l)user", if they're happy with the default look, great. For those of us who like to customize our environment... well, for us, there's X. To each their own, I guess.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I thought that it was impossible to write drivers for winmodems. Is someone actually taking this on, or are the people at C|Net high?
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. -- Oscar Wilde
Geeks Into The Streets!
.sig-- it's buggy!)
http://linux.umbc.edu/gits/
Right now, it's only in the Baltimore, MD area. That's where the UMBC LUG (which is basically sponsoring the project) is located.
Currently, they're working on the Agape House-- an inner-city Baltimore after school club. Anybody have some other projects they want to suggest?
The ironic part is, a lot of groups seem to think that by giving kids a copy of MS Word, they are doing them a favor by making them learn the most well-known word processor. But when you give a kid Linux, he or she will learn System Administration, Programming, User Management, Networking, and Configuration.
Anyway, check out Geeks Into The Streets. It's a pretty neat bunch of guys, IMHO.
(Ignore the
I notice that among some other things, the new kernel will have at least some support for Winmodems. We all know that they're crap, but it's good news anyway, because lots of newbies don't know that. There's a lot of scorn among Linux users for anyone whose skills are anything below Guru. This is going to have to stop. A lot of people use Winmodems, and anything we do to make it easier for people with low-end hardware that the guy at Circuit City told them would be fine is great -- GNOME, Winmodem support, wheel mouse support, popular programs e.g. WordPerfect & Netscape. So this is a Good Thing (TM).
Switch the . and the @ to email me.
Maybe a name like SoftModem.....And some decent drivers. They don't work so well in WinDross because you can't have decent drivers if the OS is Crap, now can you?
Yes, the kernel will have more functionality. Sure, this is good for the OS, but that only tackles half of the problem of entering the desktop market. Linux really needs a somewhat standardized set of distros to sit on top of it, and a lean, mean GUI before it can hit the desktop market with any real force. I hesitate to say that we have such a userfriendly and joe public ready distro in anything we see about today.
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd"
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd"
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
As it happens, I just bought a USB scanner today (HP 4200c). I was thinking of getting a parallel port one, but the USB scanners were 2-3 times faster in all the benchmarks I've seen.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
CP/M was based on Unix... Your point? and btw, Unix invented drive letters (/dev/hda /dev/hdb)
Also, MS-DOS/Windows 9x has its roots in CP/M. Microsoft used VMS as a model when it ws developing NT. It only uses drive letters to emulate the feel of 9x.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
All this time I thought KDE and GNOME were modern UIs. I even thought MS was using some of KDE's UI principles in Win2K. So is Win2K's UI catching up with the 70's? I'm confused.
And that brings up a unique dilemma...if winmodems are to be supported by linux, what do you call them? Certainly not "winmodems" :-)
Jeremy
would that make you a 'luser'? :)
:) I don't have anything aganst linux users at all (infact I plan on installing it once I get a new hard drive...)
That just occoured to me, and I thought it was funny
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Selling Winmodems should be a punishable offense. Around here a USR winmodem retails for _$80_. Outrageous.
and slightly back on topic, i thought java was oak. it was called oak for awhile, but then they realized there was another language called oak so they renamed it to java. *shrug* thats what i heard
Folks,
....) for a gov TEK (Technology Experience & Knowledge) learning center (TFG for Linux) management has no TEK idea/concept. I used my own copy of redhat-6.0.
... two months ago their TEK consultant said Solaris/i386 (I said Linux ...) ... two weeks ago they could not load Solaris/i386; So, this past week I installed and setup a small LAN connected with Telecoms (two old tactical circuit-switches and six cisco 2514 routers). Software Operating Systems (SOS) (WinNT-DOS and Linux-unix) worked very well together.
....
... and other apps make Linux very user friendly. Linux-RH is a very competative package ... high-school and college freshman students could learn to install/use Linux-RH as easy as WinNT, in less time, on older ($75 hand-me-down) PCs, and have all/more apps/features (network/management/internet/...) than offered by a WinNT platform.
... THANKS BUNCHES FOLKS!
Linux is some Kool shit. I was just forced to upgrade 6 year old P1-90Mhz-PCs with Win95/16MRAM/1GHD/...) to a duo-op (WinNT + Unix, +64MRAM/+4GHD) (no money, no time, no thanks,
Six months ago they did not listen to me (I said Linux
RH-Linux loaded up in one-quarter (okay maybe one-half) of the time for WinNT, very straight forward network configuration for Linux, a little confussion about the network
Linux-RH with all the GNU, Gnome,
Y'all have done a dang good job. What I was able to do in a week surprised me.
"linux is going mainstream" is a very good thing.
As a simple minded user
Yep, I'm looking forward to "2.4" and what may come with it in the packages.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
I love linux, best OS there is...usued it on my old 486/33 with kernel 1.3.X. BUT, it's not ready...and I'm not sure ever will be...and I rather hope it never will be at that.
Mainstream means losing alot of power, you can
have configuration tools that increase productivity, but after a time they are just fluff. Linux is gett emmensly more conveinent for power users....easier networking, SCSI, etc.
However, the first time the power flicks out and now the thing has INODE blocks all of the place the grandma who bought a gateway will be lost. Specially when it loses some config file (what's w/ Mandrake 6.0 and the kdmrc file??? I need a UPS.)
It's great, but it's a niche product, my niche, but still a niche.
Does anybody have an idea of when 2.3 will re-merge FAT? The FS stuff was changed back in 2.3.6, but 2.3.12 still doesn't want to compile in FAT, which is pretty much required for me, as my /usr/src/linux resides in a big loopback file on a DOS partition ;-)
/* Steinar */
(This comment is of course GPLed.)
I'm quite sure Unix did not invent alpha-enumerated devices. Unix presents one large virtual filesystem, physical devices are mounted at points within it. You don't seem to understand the difference.
NT did not use drive letters to "emulate the feel of 9x." NT predates Windows 95 by years.
You have been eaten by a grue.
[Your score is 0 points out of 42, in 5936 moves. This gives you the rank of screw-up.]
Do you want to restart the discussion, post a new thread, or quit?
[Type RESTART, POST or QUIT.] >
This article is the sort of FUD we're used to seeing about upcoming releases of WinX. Kinda interesting to see it about Linux. It makes me wonder how much of the FUD we see about Windows is due to the Redmond marketing juggernaut, and how much of it is simply due to clueless reporters (as this piece on Linux seems to be).
I'd say you're dead on with this one. Microsoft would LOVE to be able to control the press to the degree that folks here seem to think they do. As Linux goes more and more mainstream (why do we want this exactly?) I expect we'll just see more of this sort of thing. And eventually everyone will get just as pissed and jaded about Linux hype as they currently are about Windows hype. Sigh.
Bottom line: most FUD comes from clueless "tech" reporters (or even more clueless "techies" on the 'net).
I for myself would apreciate ANYTHING included in the Linux-Kernel. Since I can configurate my own kernel to be compiled, I do not have to use all of them. But hey, I rather have Linux being able to do something I don't need, than to not being able to do something I need!
Any feature is great, when it's implemented right and works properly.
--- If OS were buildings, then the first woodpecker to come around would erase 95 % of civilization.
Watch it buddy, lest you accidentally canonize the MS-DOS components of Win98 while you're at it..
This is the exact kind of comment that leads me to believe that the Linux Community is just as full of ass holes as it is people that care about it, and care about helping people understand it... Go back to f*cking using Windows get out of our realm!!!!
For further explanation of my opinion on this subject see my "The Linux Community" post to jerk-off.
That was a friendly use of the word "fuck." See this.
Wordnik, a dictionary project which aims to collect
No, not really. But the site he is talking about is here:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members7 /geraldholmes/
Funny as hell! I think it's already been on Slashdot, a couple days ago though.
-Joe
-Joe
I said this when Wordperfect 4 was BIIIG, and wordstar was dying: People switching to windows from DOS? Never... I mean, they don't even know how to save to the "A:" drive yet... and you want them all to relearn all their F keys?
BOOY OH BOOOY was I ever wrong (whimper).
1. By "space travel technologies," I assume you
... not the
mean the science and techniques used to put man
in space? If so, then no, we should not throw
that away. But if you mean the actual guidance
computers, parts, etc. that powered man into space
back then... well, yes, they should be stored
away in a museum.
2. The technology and ideas behind ALGOL may
indeed be in use today, but how many languages
are actually built on top of ALGOL? You bring
up Java, but it was written from scratch. The
authors of the language merely learned from
previous languages and combined the best parts...
they did not start with the ALGOL code-base, and
go from there.
3. Your analogy to firearms is also not workable.
Again, the stuff we use today is based on the
principles behind the first weapons
actual weapons themselves. Show me a man shooting
a 500-year old weapon, and I'll show you a man
that stands a good chance of blowing his hand off
or losing an eye to a misfire.
I imagine your point was to try and show that just
because Linux and other Unix-based OS's are based
on legacy code, does not mean they need to be
scrapped for something new. These analogies you've
offered just don't do much for your point.
Unix may be quality work, but it is also old
technology. There are newer, younger OS's that
are high quality, new technology, and free from
legacy code. Windows is not one of those OS's,
but BeOS certainly is...
-WW
--
Why are there so many Unix-using Star Trek fans?
When was the last time Picard said, "Computer, bring
Themable? Themable?
Good grief, this was first introduced in the Windows 95 Plus Pack.
Don't think of them as just modems. Because they currently do not work in Linux doesn't mean they're crap. WinModems have many possibilities.
http://linmodems.org
"Software Modems" as opposed to "Hardware Modems" ...
Ok, to be literal, here's how it went:
DOS/Win used drive letters.
NT 3.x kept them to emulate the feel of DOS/Win
Windows 95 kept them to emulate the feel of DOS/Win
NT4 kept them to emulate the feel of Win95
Windows 98 kept them to emulate the feel of DOS/Win & NT4
Win2000 probably uses drive letters, to emulate the feel of all of the above.
That's correct. (Yes, I know,a short message like this is almost not worth it, but I figured I may as well confirm it for anyone who isn't sure.)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Linux really needs a somewhat standardized set of distros to sit on top of it, and a lean, mean GUI before it can hit the desktop market with any real force. I hesitate to say that we have such a userfriendly and joe public ready distro in anything we see about today
:-)
I expect that the Amiga OE will close this gap. At least that's what I'm hoping.
NT isn't directly based on VMS, but there were several people (including one David Cutler, one of the chief architects of VMS) who had worked at Digital on VMS who Microsoft scooped up to help develop NT. So it does borrow a lot of concepts from VMS, but not code.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Of course, it does bear mentioning that NT is based on a lot of work done on VMS which was more stable than the Unix systems of its time, which in turn was based on the work done on PDP-11 systems. This work on the PDP-11s was also where some of the ideas that begat Unix started, so "I'm older and more mature" arguments don't really work in this context.
Does the same argument apply to languages like BASIC and FORTRAN which are all older than C, or possibly even ALGOL (not sure on that one).
A lot of the point about relatively new technology (including Unix, VMS and languages) is that you really can't tell what is going to be a success and what is a failure until you have the benefit of decades of hindsight. Who knows - BeOS may be the system we all end up using in a hundred years time, after all it does have a very good architecture. Open source systems may end up with a difference between ideology and implementation and crumble, the capitalist society we live in may fall to anarchy etc.
Remember than when Unix was invented, no one 'knew' it was a success. They all have to start somewhere.
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
I started out with 1.2.7 (I forget now). I noticed 1.3.20 worked well on my box (never upgraded to anything higher until 2.0). If the even numbers are stable, and the odds are devel, what happened to 1.4.x? Maybe 2.3. will be 3.0.x
--
Lab test show that use of micro$oft causes deadly cancer in lab animals.
USB in demand? By who? Pretty much the only people I've seen "demanding" USB "products" are the "computer jornalists" who write articles for Ziff-Davis mags. Tell us something. Exactly what is a USB keyboard or modem good for? Other than eating up your money that is....
Not too many users (most users or the newest Macs, esp. the iMac, natch), but I wouldn't mind being about to plug my keyboard and mouse into the USB bus instead of PS/2 ports, or an AT keyboard port and a serial port. Also, the 2.3.x kernel has developing USB support (guess keyboards and mics both work now, and sound support is in the works), so we are on the way.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
That's the wonderful thing about linux: instead of 'features' like an animated paperclip 'assistant', the people developing linux are answering only to thir own needs and things that there is a demand for. There are no marketdroids, no billionaire empire moguls commanding from on high (yet), and no single point of development. These are all Good Things.
With this kind of a development system, I'm not at all surprised that there's no PnP (yet). I hate Plug-n-Pray. Firewire and USB? Bring 'em on, these I can use! However, I'm not yet confident enough to hack my own mods to a kernel, so all I can do is let it be known that I would like these features included in linux, please. Then an amazing thing happens: Enough people want something, and a very generous person dedicates a chunk of his or her life to staring at a glowing screen, and a few kernels later, things work.
Know what, folks? This is a great time to be alive.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
Admit it. You work for Microsoft.
the last thing we need are a buncha guys and girls with rotating infinite IP addresses writing infectious looping perl scripts to bombard our system.
Who would have thought that Perl's dangerous, and apparently unique, ability to loop could prove so threatening.
"Linux is 30 year old technology. It's just a notch above Luddism."
Bob Metcalfe
Electronic computers are a 55-year-old technology. What's Metcalfe doing still messing around with them?
As others have mentioned before, WinNT is based on Dec's VMS, an OS that is of the same vintage as Unix. In fact, Microsoft themselves proudly point to this when touting WinNT's enterprise credentials. Why isn't Metcalfe diss'ing WinNT as "30-year-old technology?"
Claims such as Metcalfe's assume that those who hear them are ignorant of Unix's history. In 1978, when I first encountered Unix, it had maybe a tenth the functionality it does today, even though it was already nine years old. It was 16-bit, it only supported 64MB filesystems, 20 open files was a kernel-enforced limit, file names could only be 14 characters-- it had no networking, no demand paging or other virtual memory features, no threads, and so on. What it did have was the modularity and elegance that its successors, including Linux, have emulated with greater or lesser success as they have extended its limits and added all the modern features of a 1990's OS.
So Metcalfe should know better. And so should you.
Man walked on the moon in 1969, the year before the dawn of the Unix epoch. Must we discard the aging space travel technologies pioneered during and prior to those days and start anew?
The first block-structured language, ALGOL, is now about 40 years old. That software technology is still alive in the latest languages -- Java can trace its roots directly back to ALGOL.
Firearms are now about 500 years old -- and still rule the world in a very literal sense. Further, all the modern pistols I've seen are mere refinements and variations on a 90+ year old design.
It is not the arbitrary incident of when a technology is originally developed that determines its importance now and in the future. The solid stuff lasts and is refined and improved. Like it or not, the works of Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie were so fundamentally sound that new variations of Unix are just hitting their stride now, three decades later.
That kind of quality is something that fans of Bill Gates' young empire, now pushing its third OS family, can only dream about.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
Winmodems should go the same way...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Can you guys REALLY see the average Windows user switching to Linux? This just doesn't seem like it will ever happen...which isn't stopping the &$^*%^* computer "journalists" from touting it as the next desktop OS...bleh, Windows can have the lusers...
What do you call them? JUNK!!!
Get an external modem and hang it off your serial port... I agree that ISA is doomed and rapidly disappearing, IMHO there's really not much reason to develop "PnP".
>I imagine your point was to try and show that >just because Linux and other Unix-based OS's are
>based on legacy code, does not mean they need to
>be scrapped for something new. These analogies
>you've offered just don't do much for your point.
Linux doesn't use any legacy code either. Unlike commerical Unices and BSD's Linux is and allways has been written entirely from scratch. What the kernel and application developers have done is
1. borrow solid ideas from supposedly legacy Unices and
2. develop full POSIX compliency.
All while writing everything from scratch.
BeOS even has extereme if not full POSIX compliency, that's why it's so easy to port apps between the two OS's. So obviously BeOS is also based on outdated 30year technologies.
I've seen many Winmodems operate just fine, usually getting anywhere from 46-50K and some 'real' 56K modems getting no higher than 33.6K. There are too many variables with modems to just say that Winmodems are crap.
Surely someone out there can see the potential of a software controlled telephone device AKA Winmodem. The Linux community prides itself on it's programming prowess and should be able to pull this off. Just because there are problems under Windows (why should that surprise any of you?!?) doesn't mean they could be useful. If you could only get past the Winmodem name...
(This post is directed at other replies to the above post). What's wrong with winmodems? If someone wants to trade off some processor time for lower hardware costs, that's their choice. Should everyone have hardware 3d sound synthesis, or hardware 3d graphics? This is pure technological snobbery. Furthermore, I've used winmodems before without any noticeable slowdown either.
Winmodems make perfect sense on very low cost systems (sub $200? systems). Supporting winmodems will be a major step for Linux towards that market.
Yes, Linux was based on a 30 year old OS. Notice that this design still powers most of the worlds internet servers? On the other hand, Win9x is based on a 15 year old pseudo-OS caled DOS.
If Windows is such a radically better technology, how come it still loses in real world benchmarks and stability? Because MS put their GUI first before their core components. That isn't technology, thats stupid.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Bob Metcalfe
Does Billy pay you by the word? This blatant name-calling is making your side look worse by the day.
Seriously though, this is good stuff. I'm glad there is an attempt to add support for more hardware and interfaces. One of the things that kept me from switching to Linux for the longest time was lack of "modern" hardware support. Nowadays, the map has changed. I have support for my 3Dfx card, my Zip drive, and my CD burner. And now there's an effort to improve on the hardware support even more.
Face it: The ball's no longer in Microsoft's court in terms of hardware dominance. Many popular devices are already here (or in the works), and even if not, hardware companies are developing drivers for us. The stranglehold has been broken.
And this why Linux (and FreeBSD, and the rest of the Open Source movement) is making a difference. We don't wait for dubious improvements to come from on high. We discuss what NEEDS to be in place, and we dig in and get to work.
rivet
"Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst."
> WinNT is based on Dec's VMS :-)
Really? It thought it comes from CP/M.
Or wich OS "invented" the drive letters?
Other old computing technologies -
- Windowing GUIs
- Mouse
- Ethernet(!)
- Object oriented programming
- C programming language
And speaking of old computing technology, have you checked to see what's running under Win98 lately?General technologies older than 30 years -
- Telephone
- Internal combustion engine
- Jet aircraft
- Light bulb
- Electricity
- Radio and television
- Indoor plumbing
Can I assume you don't lower yourself to using these old, outmoded technologies either?well, as far as ISA PnP goes, I can do without, or do with what we already have (enough to get my sound card working). PCI is inherantly PnP, there are no recources to fight with (except when mobo manufactures make stupid assumptions about IRQ assignment). AGP is just an extention of PCI so it to is PnP. Scsi is alos PnP by design when you use SCAM. USB and firewire are alos PnP by design. This leaves ISA and Parallel connections that are not PnP. The parport driver does a relatively good job for parallel port. for ISA, dont toutch it with PnP. My bios sets up enough of my sound card to get it working relatively well without PnPtools in linux, and I will leave it that way. anyway, ISA slots are disapearing in computers, most mobo s only have 1 or 2 ISA slots, a year ago, they had 2 or 3, and a year befor that, 3 or 4. so ISA may become an exception rather then a rule (where will I put my modem). oh well....
Dave Cutler is the OS architect behind NT and before that VMS. I believe he is currently heading up the NT-64 project.
It's interesting, Joe Pranevich's piece about what's new in Linux 2.4 at www.linuxtoday.org didn't make it to
I mean, the time when it instantly was "News for Nerd", whenever mainstream press (or something remotely resembling it) just mentioned Linux in an article is long gone. IMO Joe's article is much more NfN. Stm., than the C|Net one.
</slightly OT>
<extremely OT>
Sorry, but I've always wondered: Why do C|Net have that pipe in their name (or is it just the logo)? What is it supposed to mean?
</extremely OT>
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
> With this kind of a development system, I'm not at all surprised that there's no PnP (yet). I hate Plug-n-Pray.
Only because MS are so bad at it. Now if Linux supported it well, I for one would be very happy.
actually java can trace its roots back to Oak, which can then be traced back...
This is a transitionary generation.
Computers have exploded onto the scene and have
infiltrated almost every environment we occupy.
Interesting to not that it's advances have rushed
ahead much faster than the population's education has.
Hence the popularity of M$ dummy-ware.
This doesn't have to be.. and will be changing in
the next few years.
Ever see a kid who'd Pop was a System administrator?
A kid who grew up sitting on his knee while Pop ran
BIG *nix machines? Gee... being raised in that
environmnet makes for a pretty savvy *nix dude.
It's all environment and exposure... Kids in school
today are using computers on a regular basis...
(Yeah.. Ok.. so a lot of schools are still way behind.. but it's getting better)
They're starting out with skills that we never learned at that age
because we didn't have the computers.
LINUX IS NOT COMPLICATED.... It's just more involved
that what most people are used to.
Total and complete morons drive through LA traffic
EVERY DAY!!... Is this easy? Is this Effortless?
It seems like.. but it's not.. driving is something you get
used to over time... It seems confusing at first... then as you
learn it BECOME's almost effortless...
Watching a 5 year old putter around inside a cruddy M$ box
to get his game to run properly is amazing.
Makes me wish all kids were exposed to linux at that age.
Hang in there... be patient.. and deal with it...
Linux is not really for our maximum benefit (though I admit
that I get a hell of a kick outta using it)
It's for the future generation to use to design
the next Confusing as hell OS on.
Erf!
Friends don't let friends buy Compaq's. (Dell/Gateway... same same) You want a good computer? Build it yourself.
"From the Etherbottle"
This reminds of a project I'd love to start to help the disadvantaged gain valuable work skills in our new network economy, and at the same time, spread the gospel of Linux.
;-)
The project goes as such: find people with older computers that they're tossing to the wayside because the upcoming release of Win2k won't run on anything but a PIII-600 with a terabyte of RAM, install Linux on those puppies, and provide them to disadvantaged folks (inner-cities, rural areas, third world, etc.) and let them have a chance to learn some programming and sys admin skills (maybe get hackers to volunteer an hour or two a week to teach a course).
I just finished a book that talked a lot about affirmative action, and how bad it is because a.a. only REINFORCED our old views on race (i.e. superiority of whites, giving to the blacks; inferiority of blacks, taking a hand-out). We need to start giving people opportunities for development and chance to better themselves on their own -- not giving them hand-outs!
OK. I'm done ranting.
Article was posted on Friday: Taking a look forward. Now stop complaining.
Hands in my pocket
You are in a twisty maze of passages, all alike.
Plover!
Do anal-retentive people hyphenate 'anal retentive'?
There is a shovel here.
There is a key here.
There is a spleen here.