Slashdot Mirror
Net-Set to Replace Jet-Set as New Elite
toe bee writes "An article at the Merc claims that some social scientists believe that folks like slashdotters, the geeks of yore, are going to be the social elite of the next century and that the 'geek/nerd' facade is quickly fading. There is justice... or is there?" Uh, oh. I can see heads starting to swell already. Well, at least it's easier to become a member of the meritocracy-based "Net Set" mentioned in the article than it was to make it into the old-fashioned "Jet Set," and (IMO) the average 21st Century Net-Setter is more likely to be worth knowing than most Jet-Setters ever were.
I'm going to plaster Linux bumperstickers all over my car. I'm going to wear ALL my Linux T's at once. I will be the poster boy for the 'net elite.
I will carry BO2K on CD for easy distribution. I will have Trinix floppies available for anyone who asks. I will always have a bottle of Jolt in hand. I will NEVER use fewer than 4 TLA's in one sentence, LOL, IMHO.
Have you ever worked at a corporation with more than 10 employees?
Large orgs destroy the meritocracy as the first order of business.
The ability to use the Internet does not grant people social skills. I think we can all find an example of this in someone we know.
And why were the "Jet-Set" so popular and envied? Because they provided society with some service? Because they were masters of new technology? Because of their tans?
People don't envy the programmers who build products or create new ways to interface, etc.- they envy the CEOs. They envy money.
But of course, to quote the article: ``A central fact is that wealth and social power, which mattered most in the old jet set, does not matter at all in cyberspace.''
I keep forgetting. (Of course, you have to be in the very small minority of the world population that can afford a computer and has access to the Internet.)
If your ability to use the Internet is what makes you popular, expect your conversations to consist of offering advice to clueless newbies, et al.
When cars became mass-produced, did auto mechanics become celebrities? Think about it.
Zonker Harris "There is not, nor ought there be, any food more exalted on the face of god's grey earth, than that
It does make sense on a certain level.
To be socially elite, one must posses things that society values above others. Money and power come to mind. Money can buy virtually all posessions, power included. Good looks open doors to money, since they make people tend to be nice to you. Connections, who you know and how much they like you, this matters. Intelligence is required to make use of looks and money, otherwise they don't last, but it's a means, not an end.
To be socially elite, one must endeavor to be upwardly mobile through the strata of society. One must have the drive to achieve the things that society values.
Geeks don't got that drive.
There's a difference in mentality, ideology and set of ethics. To a geek, doing the job right is key. Achieving a clever solution, producing, earning merit - these are the things that drive geeks. And of course, the challenge of it all.
The 'popular kids' are always looking for the easy way out, the free ride, the thing they can hold up to the Joneses face and say "Lookee what I got, and you don't!" They strut around, looking good, spending money and time on being popular. They are living in a world of things, of material possessions. Their world is defined by what they have (money, clothes, a jet, an Esq after their name, a trust fund, an Ivy league diploma, a trophy wife, etc).
A geek's world is defined by what they think. Geeks don't particularly care about the brand of their sneakers, or cars. They'd rather have a good conversation with their wife, than watch someone watch her on a tennis court. They define themselves by the life they lead inside their head, and in the heads of other geeks. They share ideas, and if they can share them as code, all the better, because it codifies their cleverness.
Can a geek really even begin to relate to a former cheerleader? What would a geek choose - a week in Aspen of a PalmV.
Don't get me wrong, geeks like nice things too. But geeks get nice things for themselves, and for the utility they provide. Not for show. I think that was the point.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
I heard somewhere that Newton died a virgin...
:)
The original nerd, methinks.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Then what's the point? Anyone who bathes, tans, gets haircuts, works out, etc. picks up chicks more easily. Like I said before, it's more of a question of power (and social skills) than hackerdom. Your boss is more likely to an "elite" than you are, and that's all there is to it- whether you're 'net-literate or not.
Zonker Harris "There is not, nor ought there be, any food more exalted on the face of god's grey earth, than that
>They'll just marry into a higher incom bracket than their intelligence merits.
UGH!!
i can't believe you people. do you still live in the stone age?? believe it or not, but some of us are out here working even though we don't really have to because we want our OWN money.
women aren't greedy on the whole. we're human. when a young girl is scared because she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life, and she resorts to marrying a guy to gain some stability, you KNOW that some of you out there would do the same thing. and some wouldn't.
don't knock us because we have different opportunities, or LACK of them, than you.
and this bitching about an impartial system?? take it from a woman, i know all about that. no, i am not crying discrimination or any of that crap, i am merely saying that impartial systems never exist, and sometimes they work for you, and sometimes they work against you. deal with it.
i still can't get over the premise of this topic. i thought that, if ANYWHERE, fellow geeks would understand what being stereotyped against feels like and would have some compassion for their fellow men and WOMEN. grow a heart!
is there such a lack of women on slashdot that you think you could go around saying this shit without anyone calling you on it?? sheesh.
Heck, I work at an HMO and just say I'm in databases and the web sites and make more per hour worked (only 40/week) than the doctors and lawyers do. Suddenly, the lights go on in their eyes.
Think about it: Good earning potential, can pick up kids after work, will help with housework.
Which means: total babe magnet.
Will in Seattle
That would be a cool thing, because I can remember when I used to get called "geek," and it was not a cool thing to be. This was back in the early '80s. Kids used to call me that even before I discovered computers. It was a name for people who were just different from everyone else. The term used to confer the same social status of being called a "retard."
/'gE-kE/ adjective
Now it's chic. My how things change!
By the way, we should notify Webster's that it needs to change its definition. I got this off the Webster's web site:
Main Entry: geek
Pronunciation: 'gEk
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from English dialect geek, geck fool, from Low German geck, from Middle Low German
Date: 1914
1 : a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usually includes biting the head off a live chicken or
snake
2 : a person often of an intellectual bent who is disapproved of
- geeky
Excuse me while I bite (or is it byte?) away...
---Mark mmille10@earthlink.net
I can't see Socrates coming up with The Republic. I think it was all Plato, who used Socrates as a mouthpiece. Then again my perception may be skewed because I think Plato is an idiot, and I don't like The Republic either.
-- $SIGNATURE
let me ask you:
are beautiful women not allowed to be intelligent? some MIGHT exist, you know.
i have a geek boyfriend. his geekiness is one thing that attracted me to him. but MY geekiness is a big part of the reason that he loves me. i am blonde. and 'english major type'?? i have an english degree. i also have completed two years of grad study in computer science.
stop the fucking stereotyping, people.
So, being defrocked doesn't have as much of a stigma attached, right?
Zonker Harris "There is not, nor ought there be, any food more exalted on the face of god's grey earth, than that
Well sorry mister Anonymous Coward!!!
English is not my native Language.
I would like to see you spell anything in french!!
Oh and please no stupid french jokes, I heard em all.
p.s. I hope the future "geek elite" wont bitch and backstab like the Jet Sets...
" Microsoft Integration = Inbread software! " SpIcEz
This article is for the most part true, but who cares? The problem with eleets is that in a very short time, it degrades into snobbery and putrid stagnance. The jet-set were lame yuppies, and if (when) there is going to be a net-set, they will be lame yuppies too. You can see the signs of it already, aol-user-bashing, stigma for people who use services like hotmail and geocities, bashing people who use microsoft software, etcetera.
But I disagree with the article when it says that the general public will look up to a general type of lifestyle which the net-setters live. I dont think the general public will care. Individuals will always strive to be better at using new technological mediums, but they will not strive to achieve the particular lifestyle set by the net-setters. Rather, than 1 elite dominating the scene, there will be a fragmentation into multitudes of different groups with their own focus and agendas, and people will find refuge in these countless groups rather than in the mainstream. The ultraconservatives, the fundamentalists, the libertarians, the pedophiles, the socialists, the hackers, the crackers, the neo-nazis, will all have their representation, for better or worse. So again, who cares about the net-setters? They'll do their thing, just like everyone else.
-Laxative
The world belongs to those who can shuttle between websites with the ease of a speeding gazelle. I have in my hand $126.37 USD. I will give it to anyone who can show me a gazelle capable of surfing the web - even web-tv will count. I'll make that an even grand if you can get the gazelle to surf while loaded on meth as the article specifies.
--Shoeboy
The "Jet Set" had style, beauty and class. Everyone turns on the TV and appreciates the beautiful people on there and wants to be like them. Who wouldn't want to be Brad Pitt or Julia Roberts? Bill Gates is rich and talented (hey, to make that much money you have to be), but he's a fsking dork. Everyone pokes fun at his glasses and his haircut and his goofy expressions. They call him a dork: Who would call Brad Pitt a dork? Who would call Brad Pitt anything but good looking and a good actor? (Don't argue, I'm just using him as an example). The only people who can appreciate the knowledgable "net set" are people in it already. To the rest of the world Linus Torvalds is a funny looking geek with an accent. They can't understand a word we utter once we start speaking geek, and the only thing we do to ourselves when we do that is ostracize ourselves further.
The only geeks that are going to be in any sort of elite are the ones like the people in 'Hackers' or 'The Net', the ones who say "I'm not a geek, but I play one on TV."
Those of us who actually spend time with others will always be elite, those who don't won't. It's the way that it always has been, doesn't matter if you're tech savvy or not.
Being "cool" or a "jock" seldom leads to a good career. That why you don't see these qualifications listed on resumes. Women too, eventually learn that hanging a cool guy on their arm won't get 'em a nice home or provide for their children. Then who do they turn to?
As Oscar Wilde once remarked, "The best revenge is living well"
I'm not worried about being the "net-set" until we get a lot of pandering through fluff articles looking to cater to us because we have some disposable income.
Our industry is just too easy to make those kind of jokes. Yet another reason why computers should be abandoned - yea verily the modems should be beaten into plowshares. Okay, so beating on a modem turns it into cracked plastic, but you see my point. Lame computer related pickup lines are proof of the degeneration of this industry. Could you imagine Alan Turing saying "Hey baby can I scan your ports?" Well maybe you can, but not to a woman at any rate.
--Shoeboy
What community in the real world has an admission requirement like that?
send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
Why are you backing out of the 'linux scene'? Just because more people like it, so now you aren't some 'uber cool' kind of guy?
what the hell, man? use an operating system that serves you right, not one that is/isn't trendy. sheesh.
That was all I wanted to say... just Wow.
Finaly
" Microsoft Integration = Inbread software! " SpIcEz
At least we might have some intelligent people in high positions instead of the (a)typical morons there now.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
LOADING...
READY.
RUN
I have seen many many posts saying that this whole article is BS. I must say that the article is pretty funny.(Esp. the speeding gazelle) But the underlying message has a good possibility. Not in the current world though. In the world invisioned at MIT where Oxygen exits. That is where the technos will be the elite. Not sitting in front of a monitor chating with a 13yr old that thinks its funny to pretend he is a 24yr old bisexual female. In a world were a majority of social functions take place over a highly evolved internet, that is where the techs will be elite. Its the person at a party that can change the incoming caller's body into a speeding gazelle :), such as in Lost in Space (my favorite part :P) that will get attention. Flame the article, but embrace the idea :).
"I have no respect for a man who can only spell a word one way." - Mark Twain
SPAM openly welcomed. I do charge a 500$ proof-reading fee though. Any complaints may be directed to the brick wall to y
I dont really find the comparison to the french revolution particularly promising...wasn't a pretty event.
"Most likely, in an effort to maintain their status, they will become geeks (or try like hell, or fake it, or something) as well as the philanderers, cutthroats, etc. that they already are. That is, if that's what it takes to continue their 'ascent to power'." ;) :)
No: they'll hire geeks. It'll be like scientists of bygone days- when the article says 'speeding gazelle' what it's really saying is: How fast can you get certain types of information? If you had to know what a plausible Vermont salary for a Silicon Valley job would be, where would you look? If you're attaching a new video card to your computer where do you go to find the undocumented setup guidelines the vendor won't give you? Where do you go to be the first to hear about the HP activeX controls installed at the factory which are major security holes?
Some of you are already nodding about those ActiveX controls and have a URL which you're sharing with friends of yours who are HP owners with recent machines. Those who have already heard about this: _you_ are the Net set, _you_ are the sort who will be drowned in gold by rich people who want not only the fine wines, fancy cars- they want power, they want to be the first to know, but they cannot themselves learn what they'd need- and so they'll buy _people_ to do that for them.
Those bought people are the Net Set, as it'll actually happen. They won't be primary sources of wealth (ha- as if the rich people sit at home knitting Krugerrands), but they will be _secondary_ rich people, minstrels/wizards of the modern age- status symbols but also capable of being incredibly useful from time to time.
It's not so much the greedy little lines of MCSEs whose question is 'what's in it for me?' who'll become this type of new wizard- those people have a curiosity limited to their arms' reach, and a real unwillingness to be bothered with thinking about problems that are 'beneath' them. Instead it's the hardcore geeks who will end up with wealthy patrons- rich people asking, "Well, now, Morton, got any thoughts on my Atlantic Records stock? I hear they have invented a totally new compression scheme, think that's worth investing in them?".
In such a situation, Morton is apt to laugh in Mr. Rich Guy's face, and then have to explain why, for instance, MS is backing another thing and then there's mp3 and so the (fictional) Atlantic scheme hasn't got a chance in hell- thus saving Mr. Rich Guy far more than he could possibly pay his trophy geek, who still thinks it's amazing that he has a blank check for any and all computer equipment, consoles etc. he wants. Rich Guy lives in a mansion and has a cottage on the Riviera. Trophy Geek lives in the basement of the mansion, rent-free, and rarely leaves his techno-toys except to go to trade shows. It's a symbiotic relationship.
That's what'll happen. Knowledge is power- but the way things are shaping up, the people most able to wield this knowledge are not primarily interested in power, just in more knowledge, and techie toys to play with. This is dirt cheap even if it seems phenomenally generous to Trophy Geek.
Dare I say it- start grabbing Trophy Geeks now, rich folk! If you're too slow, you'll be stuck getting advice from some MCSE or other, and you'll lose the big chances because you didn't snatch up and become the patron to a Trophy Geek when you could!
Don't look at me- I figure I'd qualify for that job but I'm looking to industry for my patron- I intend to be trophy geek to a nonprofit organization that gives great resources to other nonprofits, and so my patron would simply be the huge corporations which give grants to the nonprofits like us. I figure we'll be able to earn all the grants we want because we're genuinely committed to service, so I won't actually need a rich-guy patron. But it would still be kinda cool, wouldn't it?
so in highschool the nerds will pack hunt & beat up the jocks? that would be a change...
MUD addicts are the social elite of the 21st century? God help us--
and (IMO) the average 21st Century Net-Setter is more likely to be worth knowing than most Jet-Setters ever were.
Let the elite snobbery begin^H^H^H^H^H^H continue!
I'm only half joking.
Calling the techie-in-crowd a meritocracy is ignoring the socioeconomic gap that STILL exists between the wired-haves and the wired-have-nots.
-- Mojo Tooth : exploring our world as only an idiot can.
Not sure I like the idea of being popular.
It's too much of a pain to figure out who is really your friend, and who is just using you. Usually I think it's both. Leastways that's what it is like on 90210.
Misfit
To explain:
Linux has become so 'uber cool' that there are twenty different distributions, suits clamoring all over it to make it 'commercially feasible' 'easy to install' and all sorts of other warped perceptions of what a stable Unix system should be. The newsgroups are crawling with clueless people who want to know why their joystick doesn't work.
An operating system that has been serving me right lately is NetBSD. I've been buying mature, well written books (mostly from O'Reilly, Prentice-Hall, etc.) on how the BSD OS and kernel work, and learning a lot from running a plain vanilla Unix.
I downloaded (at work) the entire NetBSD package source archive and am slowly dragging in all the packages I want by building them from source. For a 'build it from source' approach, the NetBSD pkgsrc scheme works eminently well. If dependent packages aren't already in place, it checks them out, builds them, and installs them, then goes on and builds the package you requested.
For example, if you want to install LyX on a plain-vanilla base install, go to the LyX package build directory and run 'make && make install.' The package system builds and installs TeX, LaTeX, all the files they depend on, libraries needed to build and run LyX, etc., then builds and installs LyX itself. From the source, not from canned binaries with who-knows-what library dependencies.
With NetBSD (or any of the *BSD's actually) system administration is as simple as reading the classic O'Reilly books following instructions that have been correct for a decade. No clever Python scripts from RedHat to reverse engineer to figure out what the hell they wanted it to do.
I'm learning a lot, and none of it is obsolete when RedHat decides to write a new batch of Python config tools.
Just because you successfully installed Linux on
your system does in NO WAY make you a geek.
But as it looks, a lot of jerks out there think
different.
Yo peoples, the fact remains that who you are is made up of all your past experiences. Humans have a hard time being able to see a situation from some ones point of view because:
A) We are a selfish race and we believe that if I can handle the situation then so can everyone else.
B) because we have not lived through every single experiece that the other has.
C) We are individuals, with different minds and personalities.
The fact remains that now all the "computer-geeks" are complaining that we are being sterotyped, yet we are sterotyping women right back. The way that I view it is that if I were a jock, I would like who I was or else I'd change. Right now I like who I am (though I still have shortcomings.) If I were a woman, I would like who I was. If I was a little fairy who had pink wings, I WOULD LIKE WHO I AM. So don't try and judge people from your own point of view, just judge yourself.
user corith signing off...
>is there such a lack of women on slashdot that >you think you could go around saying this shit >without anyone calling you on it?? sheesh
Apparently, yes.
>when a young girl is scared because she doesn't >know what she wants to do with her life, and she >resorts to marrying a guy to gain some stability,
Oh, BOO HOO. It isn't our fault that she chose to shut off her brain.
>i still can't get over the premise of this topic. >i thought that, if ANYWHERE, fellow geeks would >understand what being stereotyped against feels >like and would have some compassion for their >fellow men and WOMEN. grow a heart!
Geek men have been discriminated against by women so much that you don't have the right to make this comment. How many of us have had women reject us simply because we are geeks, preventing us from having relationships with women???? The answer is many. And them women again will think there is something wrong with guys who are having problems getting relationships.
This is adding on to all of the "Women in Engineering" and "Women in Computer Science" type programs I see in colleges. All these things do is portray their fellow male engineers and programmers as evil. Then of course there is affirmitave action. What about affirmitave action for geeks when it comes to dating?
Before you complain about us showing you compassion, remember what women have done and are doing to us.
You want to get an idea of how much better to know the Net-Set is, why not go to Linux world and mention that you think maybe there's a few good Microsoft products.
See how pleasant it is to be around the new elite then.
Using the word social in the same sentence as the net population doesn't really make sense.
It's amazing how little "modern" society has really changed.
1) Women will never be attracted to doughy geeks with stringy unwashed hair and a nervous stutter, so just forget it. The jet set (aka daddy's little boys & girls + 20 years) were glamorous because they could afford to be Beautiful People and excelled at - and were interested in - very little else. These "researchers", who are searching for tenure rather desperately I must add, are not talking about all the pimply salivating AC's posting right now. No, the fictional people referenced in this "study" are the finely chiseled slogan-beshirted models on the cover of wired. Of course those people are attractive. They look nice and they have cash. They also don't exist.
2) People inventing utopian futures always manage to put themselves on top of the pile. The very first utopian, Plato, did the same thing in his Republic. "There will be a perfect society... ruled by philosphers!" This study is playing to our egotism and the credulity of the press to earn a few uninspired professers a little extra kudo-money at lecture time. Done.
3) We are all slaves. The jet set were the infant spawn of powerful business moguls who could afford the gift of indolence for their kids. We, the geeks of the world, are functionally the hirelings of those same moguls. We occupy the same space in the corporate hierarchy that clerks held in Dicken's time. Oh ye geeks, full of self importance, just wait until our talents become common in the marketplace. Very soon it will be clear how much a technical mind is valued.
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
Banks need geeks to make e-money go
networks that e-commerce deps on need geeks to make go
In short the jocks of our youth are now ill equipped for the new arena competition
where brains matter more then brawn,
so fellow geeks sit back and enjoy the ride in your nice sports car {911, MR-2, Corvette }
as you watch the pay checks come in, as you ponder
of your high school reunion.
Well, we wouldn't rely on our physical strength alone! We'd use those kickass sharpshooting skills we learned from playing Quake and the bombs we learned how to build from surfing the web! Duh.
</satire>
--
The article is pretty sketchy regarding the "research" that shows that the "geek image" is passing. Most likely, the research is someone noticing that "jet" rhymes with "net".
Why is this still my typical party conversation? ..
Me/her:
Her: So, what're you majoring in?
Me: Well, I don't know... maybe CompSci.
Her: Oh. . Do you do that sort of thing a lot, I mean computer stuff?
Me: Oh, you know, I to keep it diverse, but there's so much happening in computers these days, it's really interesting stuff.
Her: Well, did you do that sort of thing a lot in high school?
Me: No, I actually wanted to me a comp lit major, or maybe econ, but the CS department here is just really great, and it's a fun place to be.
Her: Well, I gotta go.
Me: No, wait! Really, I just want to start a net company and get rich! I swear!
Her: Oh. That's cool. Give me a call sometime. Preferrably right before your company goes public.
--JZ
I was about to rip the article to shreds when i thought about what this future-social-elite "Net Set" person is: someone who knows how to really use the web. This is *not* a coder, a hacker, programmer, or computer junkie. Because coders, hackers, programmers, and computer junkies care more about creating their own set of rules, web sites, scripts, hacks, cracks and whatnot that they are more likely to spend their free time whippin up spiffy DHTML, a new app, or some dynamic perl underbelly to a site than tinker around the web using all that commercial shit out there.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that "Net Set" people are the flaky no-lifers that spend their time "surfing" and downloading, not inspiring or creating cause people who inspire and create dont have time to piss around the web.
my 2 pfenigs
-Z
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going.
I'm a wandering geek, both net and jet set. My work (in IS) takes me all around the Americas. (The opportunity to travel is the main reason I chose my current career path.)
As far as who is more entertaining to know, give me the well-travelled over the basement-geek anyday. Of course, I sing the praises of the well-travelled geek above all.
A (surprisingly! shockingly! who'd have guessed!) good article appeared in Wired about the peculiarities of work-travel in the current era. The quirks of living for the miles (We live for the Miles, we die for the Miles) was something I recognized instantly. 100K or bust!
The article, of course, referred to the "jet set" in terms of those children of privilege who travel freely and glamorously in their youth, rather than those of us who've earned our miles through the sweat of our brow and the keen of our wits.
First off, the price difference between the two is quite large and I already own a IIIx, but that is just on a literal level.
I, being a geek, like utility and gadgets and all, but there's one other thing I spend money on that has nothing to do with bragging rights: enjoying myself. I love to ski, among other sports like backpacking, kayacking, mountain biking, rock climbing, etc.
I would suggest that the chief difference between the geek community and the social elite is that geeks base the level of "eliteness" that they consider people to be at by how much they respect them. I respect people based mainly on intelligence, honesty, friendliness, and how good they are at whatever they happen to do.
Hollywood and the social elite is based not on respect but on envy. It is not the goal of the social elite to be respected, but envied. Hence the lavish lifestyles and trophy spouses.
Geeks climb by making themselves more respectable, such as by getting better at something. The social elite want to be "the envy of all they see".
Vidi, Vici, Veni
I don't know how philosphy started getting discussed on slashdot, but hey, it's fun ;). The "popular kids" aren't looking for the quick way out. They just have different priorities. Like Me and My friend dan. Dan would rather do homework than go out with his friends, but once his homework is done he'll call everyone and get us all together. Now me on the other hand. If I know the material then I'll skip the homework, get a 0 and have a blast bowling, reading, rollarblading, or coding. We both like doing the same things. Just somethings are important to him that aren't to me. Has your wife/girlfriend ever asked you to prom? That, to most guys, is blah. I would much rather be Mudding, or slamming a screwdriver into my eyes, but I do it for her. Because to her it's important. I think that we "geeks" need to have an open mind about what could be important to others. Rather than try to critisize about what SHOULD be importannt.
user corith signing off...
Within the confines of the Internet itself, there are social strata, certainly. But the "real" world is not going to idolize this "Net-Set" any more than they idolize people who know a lot about cars or banking or any other complex subject.
The reason wealthy people are admired is because they are wealthy, and presumably their status is unattainable by the "common" people. If it was easy to become a billionaire, everyone would do it. Getting on the 'Net and learning to use it is within the grasp of most people, and therefore impresses only the very, very dumb.
The idiotic thing about this article is that the premise is that people who know how to navigate the 'Net and use it are the new elite. As if buying books at Amazon takes a huge amount of skill or knowledge. It says nothing about having an in-depth knowledge of how the system works, or being able to do much more than point-and-click. These aren't skills that will be cherished and admired; they're skills everyone will have.
I remember the same thing happening (but not quite to the extreme as this 'cool internet thing') to the people who liked the dark, liked darker music, and thought the only good movie is the kind that leaves you wanting to kick small dogs.
Of course, I'm talking about goths after the release of Interview With The Vampire. Suddenly, everyone is wearing black, and being morose and damned for eternity is neat.
Go figure...
...well, until some more of the geeks get loads of money (I hope the RedHat IPO works for y'all who can get in it!), it will still be the stupid, but amazingly rich, froth (I refuse to call them the elite cream) and the associated wannabes that make up the Jetset now, that if they find that the Net is the Chic thing to do, then these people, not extroverted geeks, who will become the Netset...
The Geek and Nerd show will still go on, but will be on public access, instead of UPN or WB stations...
"women aren't greedy on the whole. we're human. when a young girl is scared because she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life, and she resorts to marrying a guy to gain some stability, you KNOW that some of you out there would do the same thing. and some wouldn't. "
/. for one simple reason. It isn't because they don't have the brain power to handle computers. It isn't because they might not have the interest. It is simply because they aren't required to be as productive as men (work force). A man does not have the option to find a good woman and stay home and raise the children (it exists but the incidence is extremely low).
Women have that OPTION. While 99.999% of males don't. I'm not BLAMING her. But it is her choice. She isn't choosing to use her brains or her skills. She is using her body and her youth and her sex.
Which again leads to the "First Wife's Club" syndrome I mentioned above. If women recognize that other women exercise this option (find male when you don't want to put forth the effort to actualize your skills) then women should not complain about males dumping them for the latest model. Work on your own house before you complain about other's.
Of course, part of the blame goes to society. It is completely acceptable for a woman to trade on her looks instead of her brain/abilities. But half of society is female.
There aren't that many women who read
Do you want evidence that men are more strigently socialized than women? Check out what would happen if a woman showed up to work wearing slacks and a vest. The have a man show up to work wearing a dress. Clothing options are just one example.
And don't bother trying the stud/slut argument. How many sluts don't get married because they've slept with too many men? How many women won't hang with their girl friends because their girl friends are sluts?
Women have more options than men.
Women have less stringent social restrictions.
Conversly
Men gain higher status in their careers.
Men earn more in their jobs.
"When was the last time people showered you with adoration because you bought arline tickets online?"
I bought some CD's and books and now I get email love notes from lots of people offering me free services and promising to make me !!$RICH$!! working part-time from home with a computer.
Not to mention all the people who want me to watch them having sex (they think I might be some 13 year old so I have to give them my credit card number, but I understand their position).
My social life has never been better. I can hardly wait to go to the clubs and have the reporters and babes follow me around.
I owe it all to those books and CD's I bought !ONLINE!.
Hmm, I think eventually the media/government complex will need a way to differentiate "good" hackers from "bad" hackers. You know some bland, inoffensive standard of behaviour for "nouveau establishment" people who have a lot of money and power but started out in their garages with home made computer? Maybe these people can be the "net setters?"
Unfortunately I'm not entirely up on who a "jet-setter" is or was, it seems to be a sort of archaic term. But, I'm thinking that up until now, the media has been portraying hard core computer experts as sort of like the Mafia. You know, people with cool underworld nicknames who dress in black and wield sinister power over computers. The "evil hacker" stereotype, similar to any other media stereotype about people the newsreaders just don't understand. If this becomes a huge way to wield influence in modern society though, they'll have to be an acceptable version of hackers. You know, in order to get a handle on people who refuse to play golf and otherwise fit in with the status quo. (I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with golf, btw, just that in some parts of the establishment it seems, well, mandatory. Sort of like gym class in High School, you can choose racket ball too if you want.)
Besides, if people from elite families decide to get into traditional computer industry jobs, it will no longer be OK fo the media to treat them as freaks. (Or say if some new elite families appear, like the Gates dynasty or something.)
Sorry, if I sound cynical, I just meet too many people at my job who seem to think there's something "funny" about me because I actually enjoy computers and they are just getting into it for the Big Buck$. (I keep getting into arguements with this one guy at work just because I'm interested in Linux. I mean, I'm not trying to get the company to change to Linux, I'm just interested in it, and he has a problem with me being curious about Linux in my free time. He'd rather go to the gym and work out on the machines <shiver>)
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Why couldn't it have happened right before I started high school? Maybe I could've gotten laid more often.. *shrug*
and "shuffling between websites with the ease of a speeding gazelle" is just hilarious.
Watch me as a I click that Submit button with the ease of a speeding gazelle.
I think I disagree with the idea that it's easier to be a net elite than a member of the jet-set. I know for myself (and I'm only a yung'un) that I've spent a huge number of my waking hours reading, coding, learning, researching, debating, .... to end up with the amount of knowledge and experience I already have. I wouldn't say that it's easy to become a geek. It takes years of hard work and is a constant struggle to keep up with the times. Much like any other clique it takes hard work and some talent to become a member of the elite.
superdoo
---
A bunch of overweight, pimple-faced, poorly dressed Linux users in one room do not constitute a gathering of the future social elite.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Excuse me if I am not looking forward to a future populated by chat rooms and disconnected OS wars.
This is just another in a continuing series of articles that are simply trying to attract readers who style themselves 'geeks'. Katz suffers the same symptoms - by glorifying the ideal of 'being a geek' (without truly understanding what he's saying - i.e. that anyone who is different on even a remotely intellecutal scale is suddenly a 'geek' according to the new Geek Chic social forces), and by attacking old social structures (not realizing that any new ones that get built will suck just as much for those who aren't a part of them) he feels he is now sufficently rebellious and intellectual to hand down 'Geek Manifestos'.
This article is just more of the same, just not from Katz. It's writer is just trying to appeal to geeks that have inferiority complexes, without really realizing what a 'Net-Set' crowd would be like (i.e. sitting around trading pr0n and playing Quake is what I would imagine a 'Net-Set' get-together would be like).
How can you have a social elite comprised of a (by the classical pop definition of 'geek') socially inept group of people?
(The social elites of the future, btw, will likely be those who further mutilate thier bodys and minds in order to become physically and sexually attractive - and most of us will care less and less, just like it's always been) (because, when you get right down to it, the social elites are the ones that you see on the cover of tabloids and on TV tabloid shows, etc. And I wouldn't wish being a 'social elite' on my worst enemy.)
There appears to be more to eliteness than money. Other than Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, how many computer celebrities can the person-on-the-street name? And just how fondly do they think of BillG, anyway?
Someone else mentioned in another reply that the idea of geeks in general being elite is just wishful thinking. It seems to me that the elite have to have entertainment value, and geeks are entertaining only to themselves. For geeks to be deemed truly cool and elite, the rest of society would have to adopt the values of geeks... meaning an end to social elitism! So, the idea that the Net Set is the new Jet Set would be paradoxical. (How's that for simplistic thinking :) )
Anyway, aren't the Jet Set people the ones in the tabloids? Of course, no sane person would want to be in the tabloids, but the fact is, I've never been paying for my groceries and seen the headline, "Exclusive! Microsoft-Intel Meeting Ends in Messy Tryst!"
Do we really believe that the elite of the world will give up their power to a bunch of hackers/geeks like us?
..
I don't think so.
Most likely, in an effort to maintain their status, they will become geeks (or try like hell, or fake it, or something) as well as the philanderers, cutthroats, etc. that they already are. That is, if that's what it takes to continue their 'ascent to power'.
Either that or they'll make rules to keep the poor poor -- Just look at the stockmarket.. who gets richer? The rich. Who stays poor (or gets poorer)? The poor. The RedHat IPO is at the heart of the matter -- to take advantage of the enormous profit potential, you must either A) have a lot of money, B) have a lot of money, or C) be willing to lie your ass off and pretend like you have a lot of money. Hmm. Where does that leave most of us? Money obviously begets money, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's someone somewhere sitting and snickering because (s)he knows that most people don't have the opportunities to make money that they do, and that the profit is all theirs. How many of us have the US$5Mil that it takes to open an account with Goldman-Sachs? I'd be willing to wager that not many of us do.
.. And if we do make it to to the top ? Well, as someone mentioned before.. Power Corrupts. I know I'll have no problem living the good life..and I'll probably want to stay there. As Frank Herbert put it: 'Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely'
The cycle will perpetuate itself, ad infinitum, IMO.
Just my $.02 --
_nexxus_
Most nerds I know aren't able to handle that much drugs and booze. T'ain't gonna happen.
Before you complain about us showing you compassion, remember what women have done and are doing to us.
Okay, I don't normally act the part of the anti-male feminist (and won't now) but please-- admittedly, a lot of women leave a LOT to be desired. But in admitting that (as a women), hopefully some men out there will have the guts to admit that a lot of men leave a lot to be desired as well. Stereotypes bashing one sex or the other, IMHO, seem fairly riduculous. Sure, some women reject geeks for being geeks.. whatever it is we're defining "geek" to be (other than people biting off the heads of chickens). But as another woman posted early, we can't deny that women *and* men have been given both the short end of the stick in some situations and preferential treatment in others.
/rant.
--Anneke
"Real Women Use Linux"
Am I the only one who thinks this is the dumbest thing they have ever heard/read? (considering those who are generally most in-the-know are the administrators, and the people who are doing all the "Web surfing" are largely morons...)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I would suggest that the chief difference between the geek community and the social elite is that geeks base the level of "eliteness" that they consider people to be at by how much they respect them. I respect people based mainly on intelligence, integrity, friendliness, and how good they are at whatever they happen to do.
The social elite Hollywood culture is based ot on respect but on envy. It is not the goal of the social elite to be respected, but envied. Hence the lavish lifestyles and trophy spouses.
Geeks climb by making themselves more respectable, such as by getting better at something. The social elite want to be "the envy of all they see".
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Are geeks the next girl-chasing badboys? Will high school chicks now wear their boyfriends pocket protector instead of the grad jacket/leather jacket? Will young women finally realize that a sensible car and a steady intellectual job are better than a Camaro driving redneck working at the 7-11?
Some how I don't think so.
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
Kill the monkey
The Jet-Set are only the arbiters of society because of money. As long as they have the money and as long as the world is primarily capitalistic, they will dictate most everything one can imagine. The Net-Set usurping this power would imply a significant shift in the capital structure of society, which I don't see happening in either the short or long term.
-jason
http://www.kottke.org
"home of fine hypertext products"
I hope this article is BS. :)
I don't want to be a member of the cultural elite.
I want to revel in my early-twenties angst!
I enjoy being the outcast. I wouldn't be happy any other way.
Anonymous Coward, to quote you: "Geek men have been discriminated against by women so much that you don't have the right to make this comment. How many of us have had women reject us simply because we are geeks, preventing us from having relationships with women???? The answer is many."
You poor thing. So because you couldn't get a date, now *all* women do not have a right to comment on this issue? Tell me, in your early years did you try to ask out only the cheerleaders and hot babes, or the "geeky" girls? Did you even *look* at the "geeky" girls?
Does all this come down to some sort of perverse revenge because you couldn't get a date? Give me a break.
there's a reason you get denied.
it's not because you're a geek, it's because you are an asshole.
one reason i love my boyf is because he's a geek. it's a turnon, not a turnoff.
climb out of your hole once in awhile.
i'd have to take a laptop while i was at it.
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
Now, hang on, this doesnt apply to me. I've been 3r337 since the day I was born....
--
Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
http://www.amorphous.org
Maybe instead of Football and Basketball teams in Highschool maybe now we will have HTML and Perl teams. We can sing songs like "They call him mister Java..." instead of mister touchdown. The cheerleaders will call the other team "Wimps" (Windows Icons Mice and Pointers). The BMOC would be the guy who can set up virt user tables the fastest instead of the Quarterback.
This would also eliminiate all this school violence because the Football dorks wont be able to look on the internet on how to make bombs. And since they don't play Duke Nukem, they really wont even have the desire for such behavior.
The best part though is that I'm gonna get laid!
It's slightly more complex than that.
Women make the choice on who to marry. But there is also the phenomena of the "First Wives Club". Where the first woman is dumped for a younger, more attractive one when the male's income increases. This is also known as the "Trophy Wife".
Very successful males (Johnny Carson) have displayed behavior known as "serial monogamy" where they will focus on a single woman during her most attractive years and discard her for another when she starts to show imperfections.
A young, attractive woman can get just about anything she wants. But her window for such is limited (from age 18 to 25 approx). The male, on the other hand, can increase his attractiveness as he gets older. Compare the difference between the common, young actresses and how many are successful after age 40. Then compare how many young actresses get paired with Sean Connery or Harrison Ford or Clint Eastwood. How often do you see an older actress paired with Leonardo?
Societaly, men look good longer than women AND they don't have the career limitations that women do.
It's not fair. But I'll take it until I can get cheerleaders after me because I know Kant and Skinner.
Sometime in the middle of the next decade, we'll all be sitting around a virtual cafe, talking on our cellular iPhones, paying for our Java applets with eCash, comparing notes on our vacations.
Say, Buffy, tell us again about how you were slummin' it with that computer illiterate English Lit major... Is it true that he really didn't know how to use Linux?? And did he really use one of those... umm, those, you know. Them keyboard things without a monitor... You know, where what you type goes right onto paper, and there's no UNDO or anything.. Man, I'll tell you what! That's down right arcane. Let them use T-1's is what I say.
So, Trevor ol'chap! How's that new IPv6 multicast router project coming along? Have you uploaded your IPO proposal to First Virtual Bank yet.. Oh, hold on, my PalmPilot is beeping:
[aside: talking to live vid on PalmX] Hi hon, no, no, yes.. Well just email the grocery store and have them deliver another gallon of milk then.
No thanks! The upper crusties will always and forever be the rich, pretty, Ivy and ascot types. We're Morlocks, and now and again we'll get to eat us an Eloi debutante. And that's fine.
Let THEM eat their damn cake. Let them play their golf and go to their cheese and wine shindigs. We have more substantial and satisfying things with which to occupy our craniums than social politics.
If we ever become da'shit, we'll probably be to busy to notice.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
What makes you think that this poster's wife married him/her for money?
Considering he was gay, I'd say you were right. However, I bet Isaac Newton got some girl in the sack by asking her to help integrate his functions, or somesuch.
My Uncle S. is always asking me what is the newest happening thing going on with technology. I've talked to him about Linux, Amazon.com, and more recently the Red Hat IPO. This is happening shit, man!
I know my life seems pretty typical to me, but to others it is like "whoa... he like knows where to find stuff on the web and a talks to people over the Internet and he writes cool programs... wow..." It is wierd.
>For some of us, living well includes being fit.
Fair enough. To each his own. You're seem an OK guy.
>Doing nothing but computers isn't living at all, let alone living well.
Well there goes the 'OK guy' description. Who are you to say what is a good life and what is not. I'm a programmer. So is my wife. We're not the athletic type, but we're happy together. What an arrogant bastard of a person it takes for you to tell us our life sucks. I think I speak for both of us when I say, "You sir, can go to hell".
True, but it's not really about the physical battle between jocks and nerds, but a matter of which is respected more (if you're talking about Net Set vs. Jet Set). Which group is respected for what they do, not who they are. It's all about saying geeks are cool for being geeks (I sure think we are). A meritocracy, as was said: being praised for something worthwhile (your hard-earned knowledge set), not who your parents are, etc.
--Anneke
"Real Women Use Linux"
WTF? "Those who fathom the internet?" Give me a break. There can't be that few of us around, can there?
Sheesh.
I'm pretty sure I was the best Doom/Quake player in my school back in highschool.
I didn't get me any cheerleaders.
In fact, there were no Quake cheerleaders... maybe they all went for the Starcraft dudes...
My impression is that most of us (at least, those of us who are male) are spending lonely nights hacking, not being followed around at parties by adoring crowds. My personal experience suggests that most people associate "computer programmer" with "boring"; if they ask what I do for a living, I tell them very quickly, and then change the subject to something they can relate to.
There might be some glamorization of programmers in the popular imagination, but for me and the other hackers I know, it doesn't seem to translate into any real social opportunities. Despite the profusion of chat services, the web is still an extremely difficult place to make friends, and even if you do manage to connect with someone, you're unlikely to ever meet them in person.
When we're away from our computers, we're in the same boat as everyone else.
--
Buying lots of stuff as a requirement for status? It's not exactly unknown. It's a way of displaying how gosh-darned successful you are, how much better it is to be you than Joe Lunchbox, and has been for hundreds if not thousands of years.
This is all crap. I mean really, did anyone pay any attention to the 80's? The tailored suit business man "corporate raider" was the coolest thing in the world, which everyone thought would be the cool thing in the future. Now it's geeks? Give me a break, the coolness of geeks will last another decade, if that, then some other social strata would be cool and hip and chic. You know, the computer isn't everything, there was a world before it and there will be one after it.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
When will the game net-set-willy appear ?
Here's my question:
Is it more cool for me to lock myself in a room to masturbate to pornographic magazines or to lock myself in a room to masturbate to pornographic images downloaded across the Web?
Just using the Internet doesn't make anyone cool.
>Does knowing how TCP/IP works get you a date?
actually, it has.
A person living on the same floor of the droms as me needed to email a paper to a prof and couldn't
do it (her ppp numbers were all incorrecrt.) I fix this and we go out to dinner afterwords (with her paying no less)
:)
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
> Of course, part of the blame goes to society. It
> is completely acceptable for a woman to trade on
> her looks instead of her brain/abilities. But
> half of society is female.
This argument is a little fallacious. I don't think society is humanitarian enough. But the whole of society is composed of humans... what could possibly be the problem?!
> And don't bother trying the stud/slut argument.
> How many sluts don't get married because they've
> slept with too many men? How many women won't
> hang with their girl friends because their girl
> friends are sluts?
Since you ask: the answer is that way more women are ostracised in this way than men.
You are massively oversimplifying the issues here!
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
/* MAGIC THEATRE
ENTRANCE NOT FOR EVERYBODY
MADMEN ONLY */
Those commercials make my skin crawl, and turn me even further away from ever wanting a Mac. Gee, let's revel in our cluelessness and be proud of our fear of learning anything technical.
oooh, computer's are too hard, I'll buy an Imac.
Cooking's too hard, I'll get frozen dinner.
Voting's too hard, I'll watch MTV instead.
George
I knew I were 31337!
;)
Just kidding
I cannot believe that this old chesnut (women have it easy because we can get hitched) has come out of the fire again.
/economic system still exist...and because they do this man feels like we've got it easy.
---What a joy it is to know that instead of getting an education, a job, owning property, contributing to my community, and caring for my family...all I have to do is find me a big hunky man and all of my needs, wants, desires, trials, failures, and successes will be taken care of. Whew, I was worried I might have to think for myself, instead I've given up all the power I ever had to my husband. Now, I feel complete. Who wants cookies? Or how 'bout a blow job...I've finally learned my place.
Interesting that the patriarchy spends centuries making it impossible for women to support themselves (denied access to education, property, business ownership, unequal pay.. etc), and then it chides us for attempting to make our way in the world on the ONE thing it's let us cultivate...our bodies. Not that we have control over our bodies either, they are simply vessels...right? Then, we're suprised once the system does start to change just a bit that throwbacks to the old power
Anonymous Coward, it's almost the 21st Century and women of all kinds aren't going away. You wouldn't be wasting your time if you found out more about us. We've had centuries of listening the likes of you!
Get it together! What would Esther Dyson think?
This message will self destruct in 30 seconds.
I am a woman, and I'd certainly like to consider myself both beautiful and intelligent. I said in my post that I am an exception, but referred to my friend as an "english major type" to distinguish her as "not a geek" she is, in fact, a photographer.
All I was saying is that I know geek guys who date (marry) non-geek and attractive females. I'm sorry if that did not come across correctly.
-Alison
>What makes you think that this poster's wife married him/her for money?
Well, the original poster said,
>Now that geeks make a lot of money too suddenly we will all find ourself awash in babes.
followed up with:
>That explains why my new wife, who is incredibly attractive, married me, who is NOT.
But you're right, maybe I'm misinterpreting something here. Please feel free to point out my error.
Let's take on one facet of social elitism: attractiveness to the opposite sex. Most geeks will remain unattractive to the opposite sex (in general) because of the nature of the geek community. To wit, geeks -- guy and girl geeks alike -- have a reputation for asexuality. Geeks live in a world of ideas. Non-geeks live in a world of physical things. It comes down to values. Maybe the article would be more accurate if it's point were that the geek community now is complex enough to have an elite and whatnot. Which is hardly a revelation, but I guess it sounds more interesting to compare them to the Jet Set.
M[r|s]. Wire, please report to the office. Doctor Jones would like a word with you...
Fear my wrath, please, fear my wrath?
Homer
We apologize for the inconvenience.
"And what they live is the cyberlife -- more thrilling to many than the old high life of the jetsetters because in cyberspace there are virtually no limits to what you can purport to do."
Yes, you can drink, alone.
You can dance, alone.
You can masterbate to online porn, alone.
You can chat with a 13 yr old boy pretending to be a 26 yr old stewardess into bondage and light S&M.
And someone considers this to be a LIFE?
Get real. This isn't a life. This is a hobbie. This is a means of accomplishing a task. Providing the infrastructure for all of this is a job.
The writer is totally clueless and doesn't even interview people anyone has ever heard of.
Does anyone remember Bill Gates' thing about the "Internet Lifestyle" that we would all be living soon?
I guess we should fire Linus and Alan.
No, no, no. Those two are leaders, who are respected by their peers. That's different from blind media worship.
--
Michael Chisari
dominion@beyondtheweb.com
It suddenly occurred to me that this article reads an awful lot like the Jeff Goldblum IMac commercials: "Now you can be part of the party, sending e-mails [bla bla bla]", etc. Since when did sitting in front of a box full of transistors while absorbing cathode rays become a "party"?
(Why do I think that many people may answer with: "Since Quake came out, you nimrod!")
Yes, I agree, Brad Pitt played a wonderfully believable stoner. LOL
Reminds me of my comment on Keanu in the matrix: the first half of the film he was confused and the second half he was asleep. How perfect!
The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
Both of you guys mentioned how money was power to some degree or another. It's also been said that information is power. I (and I'm sure the vast majority of you) have access to incredible large reserves of information and also (more importantly) posess the skillz/bandwidth to access it in a timely manner. I'm not specifically referring to h/cr|acking, but that's part of the mystique.
Personally I think this article is quite a bit off base, but, as it said ``A central fact is that wealth and social power, which mattered most in the old jet set, does not matter at all in cyberspace.''. This makes your new presentation of yourself all that matters. We're pretty good at that, now if we could all collectively 1/bathe,2/haircuts,3/tans,4/workout..we could much better match the jet-sets ability to do the thing that REALLY matters...pick up chicks.
+&x
The jet set myth was driven by advertising. Advertisers loved the proto-product placement they could get by showing ``news'' shots of Prince Rainier with champagne, followed by a Moet ad. Therefore, the jet set became newsworthy (it sold products).
The article specifically mentions that wealth and power don't matter to someone who is a net-setter. So who's going to care about wide exposure for them? You can't sell anything but computers if you are depicting people in dimly lit rooms banging on keyboards. If you're not doing that, perhaps people will remember that many worthy coders smell like goats and behave worse. Would you buy laundry soap from someone who has just spent 36 hr banging on a network?
I was having one of those "you want me to be responsible for WHAT??" type of days when I read this... if nothing else it put me into a better mood. So I might turn out to be elite -- OK. That I can handle.
But I have a problem with the whole basis of it: people that understand the Internet are suddenly idolized in society because of their knowledge of its inter-workings? That's a bit of a stretch. Like most other things, the Internet will "dumb down" its interfaces to expose itself to the masses.
This isn't a perfect analogy, but how many people understand the details of cable television? Does anyone care that I can rig together a descrambler box & get all the channels for free? OK, I guess my friends do (cheapo's that they are), but that doesn't make me elite.
--Mid
Hopefully you'll be able to find a woman who thinks that a well-padded wallet, if it is, is only a nice bonus to the Nice Geek she just found for herself. If the bank acct is all she's interested, you wouldn't want her anyway.
If it helps any, none of the women I know (myself included) consider the checkbook to be even CLOSE to a reason to date/be with someone.
Best wishes,
--Anneke
"Real Women Use Linux"
Liberal translation of the post:
"Do you want to fsck with me, my frog of the urinal?"
Of course, my French is atrociously rusty, not having been used in a very long time- it's likely I've got something off...
As to what you said, I guess I shouldn't be surprised- I wouldn't expect any more than this from someone who resorts to spelling (f)lames.
What the guy means is that in our parent's generation the important guy in town was the doctor, and everyone respected him because he had a lot of earning power.
Now that geeks make a lot of money too suddenly we will all find ourself awash in babes.
That's how I interpret the article.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Does knowing how TCP/IP works get you a date? Not yet, at least not with the women down at TGI Friday's.
I guess we'll have to start praying to the Great and Ancient God Tcp'ip. Do we get robes?
As much as we'd all like to be the JFK, Jr. and Princess Di's of the world, you have to remember that any person, put in a position of power over others, will become corrupted. There are no exceptions to this rule.
I'd hope that we'd move towards a more egalitarian society where everybody's contributions are valued.
--
Michael Chisari
dominion@beyondtheweb.com
It is going to be hard to UpScale Market this like they did with JetSet.
Some how the sight of a some mushroom tanned Hacker crawling out from under their desk, pushing coffee cups, roaches and listings to get to the keyboard is not going to make me buy a 8000$ watch.
my2c
> root. god. whats the difference ?
god is root everywhere. if he IS, of course.
erik
But it cost lots of money to be a member of the jet set.
It would seem to me that most people who can get someone to get them online can quickly figure out as much of the Internet Mystery as they want... i.e. how to send internet greeting cards.
So without a barrier to entry, and with the clueless media along to describe what is and what is not cool for the new net elite, I would think that it will quickly degenerate to a circus with only clowns in the center ring.
Check out the Lance Armstrong Foundation
kayaking
Everyone takes it because there is no exam.
happened to me when I went on a blind date (didn't work out at all). Anyway, there we were chatting about this and that. Got to the question, Well, what do you do for a living. When I said sysadmin, she kinda blinked and said nothing. Then I went on to explain that I do the companies web site and maintain its servers and mostly surf the web for new developments, etc - even mentioned /. heh.
She took a sip of here soda and said - you surf the internet for work!!!???
She just didn't get it at all. BTW, she's not a dummy - a registered nurse, has traveled overseas, has kids, etc. At first, this made me feel strange, but hey! I'm 'leet. That's why she didn't get it!:) (I'm kidding)
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
I'd still rather be travelling, drinking, partying and loving....
nax@exec.pc.com writes:
There should only be one '.' in my email address.
Great, now pc.com gets crap meant for you. Why should their mail admins have to suffer so you can get less spam? Instead of fscking over pc.com, use your real address:
nax@execpc.com
Ok! (DING! DING! DING! DING!) Calling all email harvesters! Come and get it!
l00zer.
Thou art, methinks.
>It's not fair.
Oh come on now, don't tell me women don't like this system. They happily abuse it for their own ends. I've known women who openly say they don't need to go to college. They'll just marry into a higher incom bracket than their intelligence merits. And they usually do. Now, let's look at Johnny Carson's previous wives which you mentioned. Isn't it wierd how none ever remarried? And it's not because they're aged and unattractive. They know that their alimony payments (sizable from Carson) will stop the moment they say "I do" so don talk about how the system is unfair to women. If anything it's unfair to men. Courts support the view of women as powerless victims. How many men get alimony and child support? How many men get custody of their kids? This is not an impartial system we live within.
... don't call yourself a geek.
If you think it's possible to spend too much time on a computer, you're not a geek.
Go do some extreme sporting or get a yacht, or something.
Computer people will eventually go the way of
automobile mechanics and telephone people...
you'll have the front line techies who don't
know a lot and don't earn a lot. you'll have
the engineers in the back room who get paid
reasonably well. and you'll have salespeople
and businesspeople like any other business.
Marketing & monopolies will be what earns you
money; and glamor and respect will still go to
doctors and firemen.
Get a grip, people...
Quite frankly, bollocks. Perhaps you'll have to be good with code to gain admission to the club, but once you get into the club it's personality all the way. That's the nature of any social grouping. Why would geeks be any different? (Did you think that ESR got his high profile through his stunning good looks?)
That said, it's not like social status by birth is any better. Of course, most geeks tend to come from the middle, upper middle, or upper class, the ones that can afford to go to college (which is both an expense and foregone income), often for prolonged periods of time.
--
There is no premature anti-fascism. -Ernest Hemingway
I *do* have my own domain registered. I've even given one to my mom as a mother's day gift for her company.... *grin*
That aside, though-- i thought seattle was a fairly big geek town? (#4 wired city in the US or something?) and geekiness is cool.
--Anneke
"Real Women Use Linux"
A few years back I read an interesting book called "Technopoly", by Neil Postman. It made the point that those who understand the "advanced" technologies will have a distinct social and economic advantage.
To put this in perspective (probably just mine), how many times have we had to control that condescending feeling while explaining the diffenence between a file and a directory (for the eighth time to the same person).
Until some asteroid comes out of nowhere and blasts us back into the stone-age, we "geeks" will continue to have better jobs, more money and live in nicer nieghborhoods (and, subsequently better health care and longer lives).
Sig
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars
root. god. whats the difference ?
man, what does that have to do with anything? what are you smoking???
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Aren't we already.
TH1S 15 ~ TRU3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 1, B1FF, AM TH3 M0ST 3133T D00D 3V3R, && 1 AM 5T1LL ~ A 5N0B! SUM P33PL3 SAY, "B1FF SUX!!!" BUT TH3Y R JU5T J3AL0U5!
UR 50 WR0NG!!!! 3V3RYB0DY WANT5 MY WAREZ! 3V3N TH3 C0MM0N MAN WH0 IZ ~ 3L33T L1KE M3! TH3Y CAR3 A L0T!!!!!!!!1
ALL HA1L B1FF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
_Scientists_ have proclaimed the birth of the new, trendy 'net-set'? The _article_ points out that the term is often self-applied. Does this give anyone the inkling that it's not a genuine phenomenon?
I mean, my cat has been proclaiming itself as a member of the new elite - the Pet-set. And who can argue? Today's top pets have more attention lavished on them than most human children. I wouldn't be surprised if that gourmet cat food that Misty is so finicky about costs more money by weight than the crap that I eat. There are drive-through pet treat stands, animal massage - not to mention that Cybernetic Cat page that was in the Quickies today.
Who's REALLY in charge? and where can I get a decent mouse around here?
Some of the largest companies and richest people in the world are already computer related. And for those asking about highschool, many many people in my school takes the programming classes because thay get to play StarCraft and Quake 2 tournaments. Its almost as popular as phys ed.
these are the same people who published that woman's rantings the other day, she of "closing 300 websites stopped almost all episode 1 VCD trading on the internet" fame
Looks like this article's thrust is not so much to point out where the powerbase of the future is as much as to congratulate its readership for being able to click and drool its way through websites.
:)
The idea of using your technical savvy as a means of achieving social status is kinda laughable. In the words of a really cool sysadmin I know, "True power seeks no status." Of course he's nuts, but what else is new?
-- lk t lv ll th vwls t f wrds. T svs lts f tm t wrt bt ts pn n th ss t rd nd mks m lk lk cmplt dpsht.
Get used to it. Whether or not we geeks become the social elite, we're already among the wealthiest people in this country. The average American salary is ~$35k last I heard. How many coders do you know who make that little? Being a misfit myself, I know there's that little part of me crying out to be accepted (although it does sound genuinely pathetic to admit) and I always fear that said acceptance may come from a woman who is more impressed with my wallet than me (yes, I randomly bring relationships into this as, being a geek, I experience them entirely too infrequently).
Didn't Newton die a virgin?
Josh Winslow
"the average 21st Century Net-Setter is more likely to be worth knowing than most Jet-Setters ever were."
Tell that to the jet-setters.
They are talking about consumers of the net, those who consume and that's all. Not the producers. Unswell those heads, folks. Assuming there's any validity to the idea of a net set replacing the jet set, it's stil just parasites vs producers.
--
Infuriate left and right
In the words of celebrity Tom Sellick: You will. And Ziff-Davis is the company that will bring it to you. Ever seen PC Magazine?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Hey, last time I went into a bar wearing a linux shirt, thousands upon thousands of women came up to me and asked me if I wanted a dance. I had to fend them all off with a stick.
Shortly after that, I took the dollar bill off my nose and left "The Jiggly Room" only to go to a TGI Fridays. The woman there didn't seem to appreciate my penguin laden attire.
The moral is, I think it all depends on where you hang your hat.
Keep your stick on the ice,
Don =D
Worst Sig Ever
"Merit" can only be calculated in a context. I may have high merit as a programmer, but low merit as an administrator, for example.
What this means is that a "meritocracy" has to be sure to calculate merit on the relevant characteristics. Those characteristics are unlikely to be solely technical for anything but the most trivial of social groupings.
Therefore: FascDot's Law--As technology advances, the more technologically literate will become more powerful (politically, socially, etc), all else being equal.
Corollary #1: If Joe Random is technologically literate but not powerful, "all else" must not equal--i.e. he doesn't know the first thing about history, psychology, economics, politics, etc, etc , etc.
A good argument for 4 year degrees for computer nerds, no?
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
We'd all like to think that would happen... but can you really see a pack of US... typically(maybe stereotypically) twinkie-eating, Dew slurping, computer-chair-rear "hackers" beating up some muscular, fit jock? Maybe we should stick to (stereotypically, again) putting F's on their report cards through the school computers instead.
----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
warn "Just Another Perl User" if $anyone_cares;
The possibilities for new pick-up lines are endless.
/. BEFORE it was cool."
"Why yes, I DO have my own domain registered."
"Baby, my keyrate is over 10KKeys/second. I'm a GOD on distributed.net."
"Sweetheart, I read
Somehow, I don't think the Seattle chicks are in any danger from me in the near future.
Now, maybe in Boston or somewhere where the ability to correctly sub-net a class C in less than 5 secons is APPRECIATED......
I find it frightening, in a way. Whenever anything becomes trendy, rich kids with attitude push all the regular people outta the way and party. I'm not in any way pretending the net should or could be egalitarian, but watch for the poseurs to come outta the woodwork when it becomes trendy. (hasn't it already? Color bitmaps on shrinkwrapped Linux boxes at Best Buy??)
We're already seeing people (myself included) backing the heck outta 'the linux scene' for similar reasons. I hope the various BSD communities can bear the load when a lot of people with practical reasons for running a free Unix bail outta the linux party room looking for a quiet place to get some work done.
Meritocracy? Surely you jest. When the room fills up with newbies new things become more important like apperances, etc.
I remember when a similar social phenomenon happened in "The Punk Scene." (where, granted, there was no meritocracy unless there is merit in self-destructive nihilism) All kinds of new people with expensive punk costumes started dominating the dance floor at the club one night. Then I noticed cameras were filming them. I bailed outta there. Haven't wanted to go back much.