Which means -- it explains the observations . -- it can be independently verified. -- it will be discarded when it no longer fits the observations. -- it has predictive ability.
And that's just a theory.
Now lets examine "the theory of Evolution" vs. "Faith based".
1 - Evolution can predict what happens next. Can Faith? 2 - Evolution fits the observations. So does Faith. Actually, any faith based system can fit. We use the simplest Theory that explains the observations. 3 - Can Evolution is discarded? In a second, as soon as it no longer fits. Faith based? No way. Besides, Faith based will always fit the observations. After all, it's what the gods intended.
Sure, have faith. As soon as faith works in a scientific context, including predictions, scientists will simply call it a theory.
I am a freelance programmer. My web site has only a resume, contact info, public crypto key, and programming information.
No "ads" at all; but the entire site IS an ad. Low key, to be sure, but an ad none the less. It is effective.
Would an "ad blocker" block my entire site? Maybe, but the "content" would be missing as well. In the age of commercial skipping PVRs, ad blockers etc. the "ad" should be part of the content (think American Idol). Google does this reasonably well, with sponsored links. The link may have great value, and removing it would probably not be in the users interest. Example: google search for "hotels"...
Putting other ads on my site? I guess I could be paid for that, but I am not in the advertising business.
So, as another question: if I have a website, and I don't put someone elses ads on it, am I being foolish?
Back when I was young, I wrote some nasty payloads -- proof on concept only. Never attached such a payload to a "virus" or "trojan".
1 - Wait until 3am, then slam the floppy head into the backstop continuously. Also, load/unload the head. Objective: destroy the floppy drive.
2 - Identify a model by vendor. Rewrite the saved settings 10,000 times (damage the nv memory in the modem).
3 - Program out-of-spec settings to the monitor. Attempt to damage a monochrome monitor.
4 - Program nv memory on video card with settings that render it useless.
These days, flashing the BIOS would be interesting, or flashing the IDE hard drive or CD ROM drive.
Then, the warrantee would have to be honoured. Of course the objective of most "viruses" and "trojans" is theft of service, not physical destruction. So it isn't a big deal.
This is already available. My media computer was in a "beige box" -- I considered bulding a cabinet for it, but instead bought an "HTPC" case. The one I selected was the "ThermalTake Tenor". It looks like a piece of Audio/Video kit. Indeed, it is stacked with my VCR, and looks like it belongs. There are also the Mozart and Bach cases from ThermalTake; but my next case will probably be the Silverstone LC20M.
What is important is that (1) the HTPC case has feet (with some cushioning), (2) has a flat top and (3) be a standard size. All of which facilitates stacking with the other Audio/Video stuff.
Cables are another issue -- My HTPC has 10 cables connected to it. Some kind of external cable routing system, or an elimination of some of the cabling would be good. My surround sound/DVD player has 21 wires plugged into the back of it (so the HTPC isn't the worst). The TV has 13. And I can't be the only one with this issue.
There probably is a market in cable organizing and labeling sets for HT installations. Label both ends of a wire; collect and bind some of them, and attractive covers (say 3) for the major cable nexus points. In a choice of colours.
I do applaud Intel for sponsoring this effort; it may bring the price of nice looking cases down. Because right now, the HTPC case is 3 times the cost of a beige box (and more expensive than the "super cool gaming box").
I really REALLY want all users of "non-OSS" licenses to respect, 100%, their license. I really REALLY want full penalties for all license violations, or the simple inability to run "unlicensed" software. I am all for "software registration and enabling".
Really.
Because "non-OSS license" users will then actually care about the licenses they have. The ONLY reason that isn't the case is that illegal copying is (generally) encouraged.
Financial pressure? I don't think that's the reason. More like "The first rule of the EULA is that we don't discuss the EULA". [and don't discount that -- EULAs have had such clauses, along with "no benchmark results" clause, "no transfer" clause, etc.]
Just tongue in cheek (but this is how Windows feels for me; I can empathically understand that Linux/Unix feels this way to Windows users -- nothing works and it makes you want to throw the computer out of the window):
<tongue> I have Solaris and Linux at home. Recently tried to get Windows XP going.
Every system I install simply asks "Do you use NIS?". I say "Yes", and home directories and logins just work. Does Windows? NO IT DOESN'T. For the love of $DEITY, why doesn't the simplest possible operation work? (logging in and having my home directory)!
Ok, I have to create users manually on Windows; I know that it is just a home install. How do I match user ids and group ids with the file server? I guess I will have to share files as "nobody" AND THEN I DISCOVER THAT NFS ISN'T INCLUDED! So much for my home directory for sure now.
I have to install something call "Samba", and now I can see my home directory. Now, I want to run my SUN software on my fancy new LCD monitor -- well, Microsoft did include a telnet client. But, the application won't start -- can't find my GUI... That's crazy, its running -- let's try "xhost +". Nope, didn't do it. No such command. No GUI setting for it either. WAIT A MINUTE, THIS ISN'T X!
The Windows stuff is certainly not ready for production. How much did I pay for this?!? </tongue>
If a user is happy with Windows, she should stay in that world. The gap is very large. If there is a compelling reason to switch, then the switch should be driven by the user. With such a reason, installation won't be a problem.
Ok, the issue is isolinux not having the approporiate usb driver, coupled with BIOS problems. The solution is a BIOS upgrade -- download and flash the BIOS on your motherboard. Sorry for the delay in answering the problem...
It only affects installation; after Fedora Core is running, it will (should) be just fine.
Link it statically. If you don't want to do that, then include all shared objects with the application. Dynamically link with those objects from the top application directory, or./lib.
Rely ONLY on Clib (Xlib, and OGL). (and CLib can be supplied with the app as well).
Voila. "Click and run" application. Include a png icon for the application as well.
If you follow these rules, your application will be very portable. Even running with emulators such as QEMU to target SPARCs, etc.
Now, build your application tree into a shell archive. Double click to install, double click to run.
I thought that this was common knowledge: "Swordfish" the password comes from a Marx Brothers. movie. "Horse Feathers" (1932). A funny movie; recommended.
Point to my post, and indicate where I have engaged in name calling.
Indeed the ONLY comment I made directly about Windows was positive (if it works, why change?)
As to "standardized" GUI applications -- ok, skin in time. Name them (and NOT Microsoft applications).
Lets take something simple... teenager wants to run eMule on Windows -- where is the directory that contains that wonderful downloaded material? Compare and contrast with "Windows standards". Ok, how about the directory that contains the images just downloaded from your Sony digital camera?
How about configuring HP LaserJet All-in-one printers? Care to guess how THAT'S done? (its done by running a web server, with a BUNCH of scripts, and pointing Internet Explorer at it, RATHER than the standard Windows configuration dialogs).
But the stuff does work, and holds together. I am not quite sure how; I think there is a lot of chewing gum and bailing wire involved. The user? Generally she just copes. Somehow.
And, just as an aside, the class of user being discussed is NOT likely to have memorized SQUAT. So that can't be a motivation. However, if that user does have a problem, she can't simply take the computer to Staples, Future Shop, whatever, and have it "tuned up". Its the ecosystem that motivates the thing. She can't just "throw a program on" and see if it is useful.
The only way that user would accept Linux (or other alternative) is if the effects and benefits of that ecosystem can be replaced.
Just food for thought. (and I am STILL a bit miffed that you implied I insult Windows users!)
And my example -- it is a situation I am facing for a friends mom; She has cancer, and would like to stay on top of research. Just no money. Won't accept the gift of a computer either, so that $70 computer will have to do. What would you do? Bootleg Windows? Beg Microsoft for a freebie? Bite the bullet and pay the $177 as a necessary software tax? Try Linux? What? How important is that ecosystem? I think I will make the offer of Ubuntu as a "complete system" with the proviso that Staples et al are not available as a support source, and that commercial software will not work. I will indicate to here that all of her current needs can be easily met. And leave the decision to her. But I will recommend it over spending the additional money. Was this not your solution as well?
If "Joe" is happy with Windows, why should he switch to Linux? Joe wants it to work -- and it does. As to the other comments: purest FUD. The only thing you missed was "And all Joes hardware works with Windows, out of the box". There, I've fixed it for you.
Now, I have a question for you. Person is running an old computer. Wants to get on the "internet", but on a very restricted budget (due to health concerns). Can afford the $70 (Canadian) for a PIII/800 computer. Of course, that computer DOES NOT COME WITH WINDOWS.
What software should be provided? A few more datapoints: Windows 98 may be an option; purchasing a license from eBay (legality in question, not preferred). Windows XP available for $177, over twice the cost of the hardware. Linux is possible, or another system.
Note that making unauthorized copies of software is not an option. As to the effectiveness of such a computer: I use Fedora Core 5 on a PII/400 with 256MB of memory as my "main squeeze" workstation. Its fine (and seeing as how I develop software, it REALLY flys when deployed on 2 Ghz+ machines). Plus, the recycled computer is kept of the landfill.
"I love how people who would normally hate government regulation of the Internet are stepping and screaming for it over net neutrality."
The "Physical Internet" as supplied to people is almost COMPLETELY government regulated. You either access via telco (POTS) with a modem... through a government regulated telco, or via broadband cable... again government granted easements, or DSL... through the aformentioned telco... or fibre... with government granted easements.
About the ONLY way you can get the "internet" without government regulation is if you have a two-way satellite link. And it required government involvment to get the satellite there to make it possible.
And what do you get in exchange for dealing with these natural monopolies, granted by the government? Net neutrality.
If the government wants to do content regulation (the above deals with access), there are checks and measures. Losing net neutrality? Means that the companies who have been granted the monopolies can also regulate content.
You had better be careful of what power is granted to these companies.
So I was trying to decide on some USB hardware. I need Linux support, and found an appropriate forum using Google. Clearly a simple list of USB drivers and supported hardware. For Linux.
The USB "webcam" support section had a link for the driver I needed -- bought the hardware and all is good (for me). BUT, A lot of people were looking for webcam drivers for Windows. Since the list is open for posting (but not for questions), there was a flooding of QUESTIONS. Going down one (at random), I didn't notic a "get out of here, ____wad"; the responses given were helpful, and pointed people to the driver. This was followed up by "email to me; me too; me too" posts).
Applications are not supported on Linux (modify to any other platform) -- and that's why people use Windows.
Just about the ONLY "apps" that don't have support are high-energy fps games.
As to the rest? There is "support" in terms of availability. The BIGGEST difference is that Windows provides a "standard platform". It is easy for device vendors to simply toss in a CD, rather than have to work with external (and anal-retentive) developers. It is easy for the box vendors to simply order the software and throw it in. Perhaps receiving kick-backs. It is easy for the user when EVERYTHING is integrated (even to the detriment of security). It is GOOD for Microsoft to be the lynchpin of the whole show (for Microsoft, anyway).
Why upset any of this? BSD, Linux, Solaris, ___ could be 10 times as good -- but the ecosystem wouldn't exist. And Microsofts job is to ensure platform control; to ensure that Microsoft Windows REMAINS the platform. In my opinion Microsoft will go to (almost) any length for this -- giving away product to end users, giving away assistance to device manufacturers, giving to the box vendors, and ignoring piracy. The more the network effect, the worse the lockin.
And it has NOTHING to do with application support. Once in a while, an "application category" goes away -- the latest is security. But the platform remains.
So why use alternate platforms at all? NOW the answer is: its the apps... One driver to Linux is the availability of MythTV (there was an earlier post about someone who tried Linux JUST to use MythTV -- and it really is that good). There are other apps that "just work better" under Linux. Microsoft will try to have them ported to Windows, or (if commercial) simply buy them. Since there is less "competition" in the alternate platform space, there is a good chance that "cooker" projects can survive better. I give you (partially) Google as an example of this effect.
In conclusion, enjoy the Windows Platform. There are many benefits to being in this space as an end-user. If you want "cutting-edge", or have a new "killer" idea, I urge you to look at alternate platforms.
Stop thinking about vi(m) from a Windows(tm) perspective.
Its an editing engine, nothing to do with a GUI, really.
Example:
I have a line:
void drawBackground(float scale, float angle)
The cursor is on the first character of the line; I want to remove the first parameter. What do I do? In a GUI editor, I pick up the mouse, hit just before the "f", click and drag to the second "f", and hit "Delete". Takes me 5 seconds (I timed myself).
In vi(m), I enter 3w3dw. Takes me 1 second, maybe less. I THINK in vi when editing. For what its worth, "3w" is 3 words forward, "3dw" is delete three words. In "vi(m)-think", a word is a "word or delimiter". And if I don't like the change? "u" to undo.
Learning to think vi is not easy. The only way to do it is to use it. Initially concentrate on motions, and simple commands. DO learn the merging (especially practice with "d", "y", "p"). Learn that the cursor ends up AFTER the edit point (this must become second nature for proper vi understanding).
I had told you that the CD wasn't recognized after XP booted. Drivers were needed for Network, CD *and* USB. The only device left was floppy. If I didn't have a floppy -- I would have had a VERY SECURE computer.
No, I didn't use a floppy when setting up my last RAID array. And I don't generally use it -- but it was the only possibility (short of booting Linux, pre-partitioning the disk, loading the drivers, and then rebooting the XP CD; but life is too short).
In general, I *do* live in the "dark ages" of computing. Even though I develop "cutting edge software", if I make it work on one of my main squeeze machines, its going to make the end user really happy (eg. I did some USB printer performance work -- and used a 400Mhz PII as the primary benchmark machine).
Note Linux is not different because it tries to be -- that would be Windows (NIS vs ?, NFS vs SMB, X vs RDP). Trying to achieve the "lock-in" so beloved by Microsoft shareholders (myself included).
What about NIS and NIS+? "tar" and "dd", X Windows?
All technologies that Linux implements "out of the box". They come from a Unix backgroup, and PREDATE the Microsoft "equivalents". Coming from a Unix and Solaris background, I find Microsoft frustrating.
The only reason I can see for this behaviour is that MS is trying to induce lock-in. Which is good -- I hold Microsoft shares. Not so good trying to integrate into heterogenous environments, though.
--- "When I buy *any* software product that requires separate drivers, the Windows 98, ME, 2000 and XP drivers are included on a CD in the box with a simple install program. If I have the card but no install CD, most of the time I can go to the manufacturer's site and download it. I don't have search the web and hope there is an open source driver because the manufacturer refuses to create their own driver."
I mentioned that when I tried to run XP on REAL HARDWARE, it needed a driver for IDE (CDROM) *and* network. Of course I had a CD for the motherboard. How was I to use it? Using VMware, I am able to use the OS I bought... (simulated standard hardware which XP likes).
--- "Dare I even mention the amount of effort involved in trying to get the drivers created by ATI (the manufacturer) to install and operate properly on their supported hardware? There are multiple HOWTOs on the Ubuntu forums each with at least 15 pages of replies from people who are experiencing problems and this driver was supplied by the manufacturer and comes with an install program! In Windows, I simply install the driver, reboot and I'm ready to select the screen resolution. No confusing xorg.conf files or "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" with pages of options to select from."
I find this interesting. Why don't you follow the ATI instructions (download the kit, and install)? You may do "init 3" first, and follow up with "init 5" at the end -- and I believe that's covered in the instructions as well. I don't know Ubuntu, but FC5 has a menu to change resolutions. (PS. a lot of the Linux group devs I know at ATI use Ubuntu, so I imagine that it isn't a big problem).
--- "Just another addition to the list. On my home machine I installed a TV card. When I didn't like the included program I purchased Beyond TV (just one of many available alternatives). In 30 minutes I had it installed and was watching live TV and set up to record my favorite programs. It was almost easier than installing a VCR."
You win with this. I had to load a basic Fedora Core 5 installation, then enable "atrpms" repo (and install the gpg key), then type "yum install mythtv-suite". It took around an hour to download and install. I then disabled "atrpms", enabled "livna" and "freshrpms", and typed "yum install kmod-nvidia" and "yum install ivtv". Followed by an hour of final configuration (auto login, TV out configuration, etc.). And, no, I don't expect mere mortals to figure this out.
--- "On Linux, I spent hours downloading for Myth TV and its prerequisite packages before it finally compiled. Once it compiled and installed, I had to page through many different undocumented options before I was able to download TV listings and start the backend server. Finally I started the front-end and it proceeded to lock up my system. Since there is no FAQ on how to fix this issue, I'm going to have to spend time trying to figure it out. Do you really think the average consumer would still be attempting to get Myth TV to work? Most would have stopped after they couldn't download a pre-compiled version with a simple install program. Yes I tried the Ubuntu packages, they are broken, not to mention a couple of versions downlevel."
Yes, MythTV is a bear. Worth it in the end, but certainly not an easy thing to set up (see my description above of Myth with FC5). Building from source? Possible, but I seriously recommend against it unless you have some programming knowledge. The "downlevel" version is probably what you want (really, and if they are broken, its probably time to look at another distro).
"When I can play games on Linux with all my funky graphics and sound card options and controllers working right out the box like I can on Windows, then I'll make the switch. Last time I installed Linux, about a year ago, I had to spend a day finding drivers, had problems with the display and half my peripherals didn't work. Much as I don't like M$, I don't get those kind of problems when installing Windows XP. It takes 30 minutes, 1 install of SP2, a couple of drivers installs and a reboot and I'm back to normal. One point to make about Linux and enterprise and use in business. Linux doesn't ghost very well, which is a problem as far as I am concerned."
I want to discuss most of your points... (but not in order):
1 - "Linux doesn't ghost very well". No, but it tars and dds well. Why are you trying to use a Windows tool which isn't needed?
2 - Windows XP does take 30 minutes to install. "a couple of drivers installs" -- I run XP SP2 in VMware. The last time I tried to install it on real hardware: I needed drivers for the IDE driver, the audio, the network and the video. None of which were included. Of course, the drivers were too big to put on a floppy, and XP refused to see the CDROM drive it just loaded from. Of course the network required a driver as well. Way to go! Fedora Core "just works" on this machine -- needing a driver for the video only.
3 - Play games... If you want to run Windows games, use Windows. End of story. No other explanation is needed.
4 - "funky graphics and sound card options and controllers working right out the box". This is bullshit. THEY DON'T WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX WITH WINDOWS. You need to install drivers. Which are very dodgy at times. If anything, Linux has FAR more quality drivers than Windows "in the box". I still use QIC tapes: is there a Windows XP driver that is supported for those?
Slashdot Mirror
Yup, get these all the time. "Lucrative Opportunity in ..." What are your skills? What is your rate?
An ingenous way of getting the going rate. After which the job can be low-balled.
I have NEVER been contracted by any org. in India, where these seem to originate. Nor has anyone I know.
I have taken to simply forwarding the name of a local agency to them.
By jove, you are right! It IS just a Theory!
Which means -- it explains the observations . -- it can be independently verified. -- it will be discarded when it no longer fits the observations. -- it has predictive ability.
And that's just a theory.
Now lets examine "the theory of Evolution" vs. "Faith based".
1 - Evolution can predict what happens next. Can Faith?
2 - Evolution fits the observations. So does Faith. Actually, any faith based system can fit. We use the simplest Theory that explains the observations.
3 - Can Evolution is discarded? In a second, as soon as it no longer fits. Faith based? No way. Besides, Faith based will always fit the observations. After all, it's what the gods intended.
Sure, have faith. As soon as faith works in a scientific context, including predictions, scientists will simply call it a theory.
Ratboy
So make nicotine a controlled substance. Just that easy, and it will give the DEA more to do.
Until then, its inane.
YMMV
Ratboy
I am a freelance programmer. My web site has only a resume, contact info, public crypto key, and programming information.
No "ads" at all; but the entire site IS an ad. Low key, to be sure, but an ad none the less. It is effective.
Would an "ad blocker" block my entire site? Maybe, but the "content" would be missing as well. In the age of commercial skipping PVRs, ad blockers etc. the "ad" should be part of the content (think American Idol). Google does this reasonably well, with sponsored links. The link may have great value, and removing it would probably not be in the users interest. Example: google search for "hotels"...
Putting other ads on my site? I guess I could be paid for that, but I am not in the advertising business.
So, as another question: if I have a website, and I don't put someone elses ads on it, am I being foolish?
YMMV
Ratboy.
Back when I was young, I wrote some nasty payloads -- proof on concept only. Never attached such a payload to a "virus" or "trojan".
1 - Wait until 3am, then slam the floppy head into the backstop continuously. Also, load/unload the head. Objective: destroy the floppy drive.
2 - Identify a model by vendor. Rewrite the saved settings 10,000 times (damage the nv memory in the modem).
3 - Program out-of-spec settings to the monitor. Attempt to damage a monochrome monitor.
4 - Program nv memory on video card with settings that render it useless.
These days, flashing the BIOS would be interesting, or flashing the IDE hard drive or CD ROM drive.
Then, the warrantee would have to be honoured. Of course the objective of most "viruses" and "trojans" is theft of service, not physical destruction. So it isn't a big deal.
But, destructive software CAN be written.
YMMV
Ratboy
This is already available. My media computer was in a "beige box" -- I considered bulding a cabinet for it, but instead bought an "HTPC" case. The one I selected was the "ThermalTake Tenor". It looks like a piece of Audio/Video kit. Indeed, it is stacked with my VCR, and looks like it belongs. There are also the Mozart and Bach cases from ThermalTake; but my next case will probably be the Silverstone LC20M.
What is important is that (1) the HTPC case has feet (with some cushioning), (2) has a flat top and (3) be a standard size. All of which facilitates stacking with the other Audio/Video stuff.
Cables are another issue -- My HTPC has 10 cables connected to it. Some kind of external cable routing system, or an elimination of some of the cabling would be good. My surround sound/DVD player has 21 wires plugged into the back of it (so the HTPC isn't the worst). The TV has 13. And I can't be the only one with this issue.
There probably is a market in cable organizing and labeling sets for HT installations. Label both ends of a wire; collect and bind some of them, and attractive covers (say 3) for the major cable nexus points. In a choice of colours.
I do applaud Intel for sponsoring this effort; it may bring the price of nice looking cases down. Because right now, the HTPC case is 3 times the cost of a beige box (and more expensive than the "super cool gaming box").
YMMV
Ratboy
100 orders of magnitude? We are a lot closer than that...
Anyway, your issue is covered in the Fine Article -- the robots are needed to refuel the helium balloons.
YMMV
Ratboy
Let's focus on those "licenses".
I really REALLY want all users of "non-OSS" licenses to respect, 100%, their license. I really REALLY want full penalties for all license violations, or the simple inability to run "unlicensed" software. I am all for "software registration and enabling".
Really.
Because "non-OSS license" users will then actually care about the licenses they have. The ONLY reason that isn't the case is that illegal copying is (generally) encouraged.
Financial pressure? I don't think that's the reason. More like "The first rule of the EULA is that we don't discuss the EULA". [and don't discount that -- EULAs have had such clauses, along with "no benchmark results" clause, "no transfer" clause, etc.]
YMMV
Ratboy
Just tongue in cheek (but this is how Windows feels for me; I can empathically understand that Linux/Unix feels this way to Windows users -- nothing works and it makes you want to throw the computer out of the window):
<tongue>
I have Solaris and Linux at home. Recently tried to get Windows XP going.
Every system I install simply asks "Do you use NIS?". I say "Yes", and home directories and logins just work. Does Windows? NO IT DOESN'T. For the love of $DEITY, why doesn't the simplest possible operation work? (logging in and having my home directory)!
Ok, I have to create users manually on Windows; I know that it is just a home install. How do I match user ids and group ids with the file server? I guess I will have to share files as "nobody" AND THEN I DISCOVER THAT NFS ISN'T INCLUDED! So much for my home directory for sure now.
I have to install something call "Samba", and now I can see my home directory. Now, I want to run my SUN software on my fancy new LCD monitor -- well, Microsoft did include a telnet client. But, the application won't start -- can't find my GUI... That's crazy, its running -- let's try "xhost +". Nope, didn't do it. No such command. No GUI setting for it either. WAIT A MINUTE, THIS ISN'T X!
The Windows stuff is certainly not ready for production. How much did I pay for this?!?
</tongue>
If a user is happy with Windows, she should stay in that world. The gap is very large. If there is a compelling reason to switch, then the switch should be driven by the user. With such a reason, installation won't be a problem.
Just sayin'
Ratboy
Ok, the issue is isolinux not having the approporiate usb driver, coupled with BIOS problems. The solution is a BIOS upgrade -- download and flash the BIOS on your motherboard. Sorry for the delay in answering the problem...
It only affects installation; after Fedora Core is running, it will (should) be just fine.
Ratboy
Tadrith
I currently on contract with ATI/AMD, but I'll see if I can squeeze out some cycles to look at this (again, I am intrigued). Not tonight, though...
Ratboy
So, now I am curious. What motherboard, are you using a USB external hub, if so, which one, and which keyboard?
Secondary, which distribution(s)?
YMMV
Ratboy
Link it statically. If you don't want to do that, then include all shared objects with the application. Dynamically link with those objects from the top application directory, or ./lib.
Rely ONLY on Clib (Xlib, and OGL). (and CLib can be supplied with the app as well).
Voila. "Click and run" application. Include a png icon for the application as well.
If you follow these rules, your application will be very portable. Even running with emulators such as QEMU to target SPARCs, etc.
Now, build your application tree into a shell archive. Double click to install, double click to run.
How is this different from the Windows approach?
YMMV, but I don't see how
Ratboy
I thought that this was common knowledge: "Swordfish" the password comes from a Marx Brothers. movie. "Horse Feathers" (1932). A funny movie; recommended.
Point to my post, and indicate where I have engaged in name calling.
Indeed the ONLY comment I made directly about Windows was positive (if it works, why change?)
As to "standardized" GUI applications -- ok, skin in time. Name them (and NOT Microsoft applications).
Lets take something simple... teenager wants to run eMule on Windows -- where is the directory that contains that wonderful downloaded material? Compare and contrast with "Windows standards". Ok, how about the directory that contains the images just downloaded from your Sony digital camera?
How about configuring HP LaserJet All-in-one printers? Care to guess how THAT'S done? (its done by running a web server, with a BUNCH of scripts, and pointing Internet Explorer at it, RATHER than the standard Windows configuration dialogs).
But the stuff does work, and holds together. I am not quite sure how; I think there is a lot of chewing gum and bailing wire involved. The user? Generally she just copes. Somehow.
And, just as an aside, the class of user being discussed is NOT likely to have memorized SQUAT. So that can't be a motivation. However, if that user does have a problem, she can't simply take the computer to Staples, Future Shop, whatever, and have it "tuned up". Its the ecosystem that motivates the thing. She can't just "throw a program on" and see if it is useful.
The only way that user would accept Linux (or other alternative) is if the effects and benefits of that ecosystem can be replaced.
Just food for thought. (and I am STILL a bit miffed that you implied I insult Windows users!)
And my example -- it is a situation I am facing for a friends mom; She has cancer, and would like to stay on top of research. Just no money. Won't accept the gift of a computer either, so that $70 computer will have to do. What would you do? Bootleg Windows? Beg Microsoft for a freebie? Bite the bullet and pay the $177 as a necessary software tax? Try Linux? What? How important is that ecosystem? I think I will make the offer of Ubuntu as a "complete system" with the proviso that Staples et al are not available as a support source, and that commercial software will not work. I will indicate to here that all of her current needs can be easily met. And leave the decision to her. But I will recommend it over spending the additional money. Was this not your solution as well?
YMMV
Ratboy
If "Joe" is happy with Windows, why should he switch to Linux? Joe wants it to work -- and it does. As to the other comments: purest FUD. The only thing you missed was "And all Joes hardware works with Windows, out of the box". There, I've fixed it for you.
Now, I have a question for you. Person is running an old computer. Wants to get on the "internet", but on a very restricted budget (due to health concerns). Can afford the $70 (Canadian) for a PIII/800 computer. Of course, that computer DOES NOT COME WITH WINDOWS.
What software should be provided? A few more datapoints: Windows 98 may be an option; purchasing a license from eBay (legality in question, not preferred). Windows XP available for $177, over twice the cost of the hardware. Linux is possible, or another system.
Note that making unauthorized copies of software is not an option. As to the effectiveness of such a computer: I use Fedora Core 5 on a PII/400 with 256MB of memory as my "main squeeze" workstation. Its fine (and seeing as how I develop software, it REALLY flys when deployed on 2 Ghz+ machines). Plus, the recycled computer is kept of the landfill.
YMMV
Ratboy.
"I love how people who would normally hate government regulation of the Internet are stepping and screaming for it over net neutrality."
The "Physical Internet" as supplied to people is almost COMPLETELY government regulated. You either access via telco (POTS) with a modem... through a government regulated telco, or via broadband cable... again government granted easements, or DSL... through the aformentioned telco... or fibre... with government granted easements.
About the ONLY way you can get the "internet" without government regulation is if you have a two-way satellite link. And it required government involvment to get the satellite there to make it possible.
And what do you get in exchange for dealing with these natural monopolies, granted by the government? Net neutrality.
If the government wants to do content regulation (the above deals with access), there are checks and measures. Losing net neutrality? Means that the companies who have been granted the monopolies can also regulate content.
You had better be careful of what power is granted to these companies.
YMMV
Ratboy
So I was trying to decide on some USB hardware. I need Linux support, and found an appropriate forum using Google. Clearly a simple list of USB drivers and supported hardware. For Linux.
The USB "webcam" support section had a link for the driver I needed -- bought the hardware and all is good (for me). BUT, A lot of people were looking for webcam drivers for Windows. Since the list is open for posting (but not for questions), there was a flooding of QUESTIONS. Going down one (at random), I didn't notic a "get out of here, ____wad"; the responses given were helpful, and pointed people to the driver. This was followed up by "email to me; me too; me too" posts).
Just an observation
YMMV
Ratboy
Applications are not supported on Linux (modify to any other platform) -- and that's why people use Windows.
Just about the ONLY "apps" that don't have support are high-energy fps games.
As to the rest? There is "support" in terms of availability. The BIGGEST difference is that Windows provides a "standard platform". It is easy for device vendors to simply toss in a CD, rather than have to work with external (and anal-retentive) developers. It is easy for the box vendors to simply order the software and throw it in. Perhaps receiving kick-backs. It is easy for the user when EVERYTHING is integrated (even to the detriment of security). It is GOOD for Microsoft to be the lynchpin of the whole show (for Microsoft, anyway).
Why upset any of this? BSD, Linux, Solaris, ___ could be 10 times as good -- but the ecosystem wouldn't exist. And Microsofts job is to ensure platform control; to ensure that Microsoft Windows REMAINS the platform. In my opinion Microsoft will go to (almost) any length for this -- giving away product to end users, giving away assistance to device manufacturers, giving to the box vendors, and ignoring piracy. The more the network effect, the worse the lockin.
And it has NOTHING to do with application support. Once in a while, an "application category" goes away -- the latest is security. But the platform remains.
So why use alternate platforms at all? NOW the answer is: its the apps... One driver to Linux is the availability of MythTV (there was an earlier post about someone who tried Linux JUST to use MythTV -- and it really is that good). There are other apps that "just work better" under Linux. Microsoft will try to have them ported to Windows, or (if commercial) simply buy them. Since there is less "competition" in the alternate platform space, there is a good chance that "cooker" projects can survive better. I give you (partially) Google as an example of this effect.
In conclusion, enjoy the Windows Platform. There are many benefits to being in this space as an end-user. If you want "cutting-edge", or have a new "killer" idea, I urge you to look at alternate platforms.
YMMV
Ratboy
Stop thinking about vi(m) from a Windows(tm) perspective.
Its an editing engine, nothing to do with a GUI, really.
Example:
I have a line:
void drawBackground(float scale, float angle)
The cursor is on the first character of the line; I want to remove the first parameter. What do I do? In a GUI editor, I pick up the mouse, hit just before the "f", click and drag to the second "f", and hit "Delete". Takes me 5 seconds (I timed myself).
In vi(m), I enter 3w3dw. Takes me 1 second, maybe less. I THINK in vi when editing. For what its worth, "3w" is 3 words forward, "3dw" is delete three words. In "vi(m)-think", a word is a "word or delimiter". And if I don't like the change? "u" to undo.
Learning to think vi is not easy. The only way to do it is to use it. Initially concentrate on motions, and simple commands. DO learn the merging (especially practice with "d", "y", "p"). Learn that the cursor ends up AFTER the edit point (this must become second nature for proper vi understanding).
YMMV
Ratboy
You are far too subtle for me...
YMMV
Ratboy
I had told you that the CD wasn't recognized after XP booted. Drivers were needed for Network, CD *and* USB. The only device left was floppy. If I didn't have a floppy -- I would have had a VERY SECURE computer.
No, I didn't use a floppy when setting up my last RAID array. And I don't generally use it -- but it was the only possibility (short of booting Linux, pre-partitioning the disk, loading the drivers, and then rebooting the XP CD; but life is too short).
In general, I *do* live in the "dark ages" of computing. Even though I develop "cutting edge software", if I make it work on one of my main squeeze machines, its going to make the end user really happy (eg. I did some USB printer performance work -- and used a 400Mhz PII as the primary benchmark machine).
Note Linux is not different because it tries to be -- that would be Windows (NIS vs ?, NFS vs SMB, X vs RDP). Trying to achieve the "lock-in" so beloved by Microsoft shareholders (myself included).
YMMV
Ratboy.
What about NIS and NIS+? "tar" and "dd", X Windows?
All technologies that Linux implements "out of the box". They come from a Unix backgroup, and PREDATE the Microsoft "equivalents". Coming from a Unix and Solaris background, I find Microsoft frustrating.
The only reason I can see for this behaviour is that MS is trying to induce lock-in. Which is good -- I hold Microsoft shares. Not so good trying to integrate into heterogenous environments, though.
YMMV
Ratboy.
--- "When I buy *any* software product that requires separate drivers, the Windows 98, ME, 2000 and XP drivers are included on a CD in the box with a simple install program. If I have the card but no install CD, most of the time I can go to the manufacturer's site and download it. I don't have search the web and hope there is an open source driver because the manufacturer refuses to create their own driver."
I mentioned that when I tried to run XP on REAL HARDWARE, it needed a driver for IDE (CDROM) *and* network. Of course I had a CD for the motherboard. How was I to use it? Using VMware, I am able to use the OS I bought... (simulated standard hardware which XP likes).
--- "Dare I even mention the amount of effort involved in trying to get the drivers created by ATI (the manufacturer) to install and operate properly on their supported hardware? There are multiple HOWTOs on the Ubuntu forums each with at least 15 pages of replies from people who are experiencing problems and this driver was supplied by the manufacturer and comes with an install program! In Windows, I simply install the driver, reboot and I'm ready to select the screen resolution. No confusing xorg.conf files or "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" with pages of options to select from."
I find this interesting. Why don't you follow the ATI instructions (download the kit, and install)? You may do "init 3" first, and follow up with "init 5" at the end -- and I believe that's covered in the instructions as well. I don't know Ubuntu, but FC5 has a menu to change resolutions. (PS. a lot of the Linux group devs I know at ATI use Ubuntu, so I imagine that it isn't a big problem).
--- "Just another addition to the list. On my home machine I installed a TV card. When I didn't like the included program I purchased Beyond TV (just one of many available alternatives). In 30 minutes I had it installed and was watching live TV and set up to record my favorite programs. It was almost easier than installing a VCR."
You win with this. I had to load a basic Fedora Core 5 installation, then enable "atrpms" repo (and install the gpg key), then type "yum install mythtv-suite". It took around an hour to download and install. I then disabled "atrpms", enabled "livna" and "freshrpms", and typed "yum install kmod-nvidia" and "yum install ivtv". Followed by an hour of final configuration (auto login, TV out configuration, etc.). And, no, I don't expect mere mortals to figure this out.
--- "On Linux, I spent hours downloading for Myth TV and its prerequisite packages before it finally compiled. Once it compiled and installed, I had to page through many different undocumented options before I was able to download TV listings and start the backend server. Finally I started the front-end and it proceeded to lock up my system. Since there is no FAQ on how to fix this issue, I'm going to have to spend time trying to figure it out. Do you really think the average consumer would still be attempting to get Myth TV to work? Most would have stopped after they couldn't download a pre-compiled version with a simple install program. Yes I tried the Ubuntu packages, they are broken, not to mention a couple of versions downlevel."
Yes, MythTV is a bear. Worth it in the end, but certainly not an easy thing to set up (see my description above of Myth with FC5). Building from source? Possible, but I seriously recommend against it unless you have some programming knowledge. The "downlevel" version is probably what you want (really, and if they are broken, its probably time to look at another distro).
YMMV
Ratboy
"When I can play games on Linux with all my funky graphics and sound card options and controllers working right out the box like I can on Windows, then I'll make the switch. Last time I installed Linux, about a year ago, I had to spend a day finding drivers, had problems with the display and half my peripherals didn't work. Much as I don't like M$, I don't get those kind of problems when installing Windows XP. It takes 30 minutes, 1 install of SP2, a couple of drivers installs and a reboot and I'm back to normal. One point to make about Linux and enterprise and use in business. Linux doesn't ghost very well, which is a problem as far as I am concerned."
I want to discuss most of your points... (but not in order):
1 - "Linux doesn't ghost very well". No, but it tars and dds well. Why are you trying to use a Windows tool which isn't needed?
2 - Windows XP does take 30 minutes to install. "a couple of drivers installs" -- I run XP SP2 in VMware. The last time I tried to install it on real hardware: I needed drivers for the IDE driver, the audio, the network and the video. None of which were included. Of course, the drivers were too big to put on a floppy, and XP refused to see the CDROM drive it just loaded from. Of course the network required a driver as well. Way to go! Fedora Core "just works" on this machine -- needing a driver for the video only.
3 - Play games... If you want to run Windows games, use Windows. End of story. No other explanation is needed.
4 - "funky graphics and sound card options and controllers working right out the box". This is bullshit. THEY DON'T WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX WITH WINDOWS. You need to install drivers. Which are very dodgy at times. If anything, Linux has FAR more quality drivers than Windows "in the box". I still use QIC tapes: is there a Windows XP driver that is supported for those?