You're all missing the point on how computers can be helpful in the classroom. They are tools not teachers. If your teacher is so horrible and can't teach the computer isn't going to make up for this. Its like expecting the blackboard to teach kids, except the computer is a little more interactive than a blackboard.
There are tons of free compilers out and about, not just for linux either. Search yahoo for free compiler, there are many. Of course that might require a download, but a teacher who is going to use a computer as a tool to help teach should know how to do that.
Screw educational software. Educational software is crap, I'll give you that. So don't use it. The good stuff is the programming stuff, and the presentation software. How many high school lectures could have been made more interesting by using an actual presentation, instead of a dull, monotone lecture with a teacher whose back is always turned and writing at the blackboard? And don't whine about attention span either. We don't have to be bored anymore, ok? Get that? Being interesting helps the learning process. Sure teachers aren't supposed to be entertainers, but any attempt at arousing interest is better than just feeding fact after fact.
So the admins suck, thats a general fact of school labs because yes, nobody wants to be a school network admin and everybody tries to have a job elsewhere. That pretty much means that there's always an exploit. Neither my grade nor high school admins were competent enough to keep me where they wanted me. Nobody knew security. It kept the masses inline, but gave us with some knowhow a little challenge. Some real thinking, how to get to king's quest when only the teacher has read permissions to the directory. My high school actually gave me an independent study and had me do a little admining of my own. You may think that proves your point that computers are bad in a classroom, but I don't see how a challenge like this could be bad. But you're breaking the rules you say. So were the kids too dumb to use a computer and pummeling each other on the playground. And now look who has a better job and future. And learning how to use a computer wasn't hurting anybody either, they still learned other things. Its not as though computers are doing all the teaching, thats why we have teachers.
Also, so what if the kids know more than the teachers. Are teachers too old to learn? Not all the kids are going to know more, anyway. There will always be the teachers who know nothing about technology, but how much use of computers are they going to make? Remember these are tools, a time and a place to use them. Most teachers can make a powerpoint presentation, and with the wizards make it look decent. Most of the time it wasn't a computer class anyway, so if I was helping to get the presentation in order so what? In my experience there was really only me and a few others who could beat any teacher skillwise with computers. And when the teachers had problems they came running to me, giving me a chance to teach and learn people skills.
Sure, if you think that the teachers are going to be replaced by computers you're in for a rude awakening. Like I said before, they're tools. When used properly, not as babysitters, they're going to be helpful. I started using computers at 3, most of my intelligent friends started using computers by 3rd grade. We carried through high school some of the highest GPAs, I was in the top 3% of my class of about 450. We're still doing so in college. The computer competent seem to be the most competent people I've met. Figure out how to use them in a classroom, and where its important to use them and they will do good. Don't blame the sloth and incompetence of some teachers on machines though. Teachers need to teach in order for kids to learn. Computers are just one more tool to help.
When you have over 5GB of assorted music, more than you could ever hope to listen to and appreciate, can you really call yourself a fan of anything?
What the hell are you babbeling about? 5GB of music hardly sounds like a collection that you couldn't appreciate. Mine is 2GB, and thats only 550 some songs.
Now lets see here... Assume 10 tracks to a CD. This is a light estimate too, but just assume it for a second. Now you go and buy your 100 disk changer. Wow, 1000 songs, maybe 3.75GB of music there.
Does this mean that people that can fill 100 disc changers don't appreciate music? To hell with that thought. They love music. They're the people that buy $1000+ receivers. They're the people with transistor radios. They're... you get the point.
Granted though people with transistor radios wouldn't reduce themselves to mp3, there is a slight degradation of quality. Unless of course you rip your CDs at 330k or something ungodly like that, and who has the space on their HD for that? Still, at 128k there isn't that much degradation and with good speakers, a sound blaster live and a receiver of some quality the sound is good. You can definately still listen to and enjoy that music. I'm not complaining.
And maybe learn to listen to music, not just amass it...
Just because you have a large collection of music doesn't mean you don't appreciate it, or love the better songs in the playlist, or don't know the words to nearly each song. I can sing along with almost the entirety of my playlist.
Still, I haven't downloaded anything I don't have the rights to listen to. Of that large collection I have all the CDs. I don't want to buy a big changer when my computer suffices. Hell, I like being able to pick by song title and not try to remember CD number and then track number on top of that.
I personally don't care for Metallica. I have one tape, the self titled black one. After that I don't really think they put out more than 1 or 2 good songs. Who really cares if they're trying to prevent abuse of their copyright. You'd do the same. You'd be furious if people were stealing something you worked hard to do and you didn't want it distributed along channels which weren't controlled. They still suck, but they have a right to defend their copyright. This isn't really the best way to do it, but what really is the best way?
Anybody who runs intel can go download a program from their site which gives clock speed, and with the PIIIs the expected speed as well. Don't even have to run windows, there's a version that boots off a disk.
They said pirating. Can they state for certain the people downloading the music don't have the CD and the rights to listen to it? Some people don't want to cough up the $30 for AudioCatalyst so they can make high quality rips of their own CDs and aren't adept enough to find a freeware program to do so.
He's right too, most of the users are probably minors. Is Metallica going to drag thousands of 13 year olds to court? Even if they are trying to defend their copyright they're looking like asses in the attempt. I don't want to back them up by buying a CD. I'm gonna go buy Limp Bizkit's CD instead, and support a band that isn't afraid of technology.
3dfx isn't really all that great. Their cards seem to be just hacks of their older cards. The newer cards are just the same chipset with overclocked ram, or two of the same chipset with overclocked ram, or... you get the point. NVidia releases new chipsets yearly, something really nice. New revisions on those chipsets six months after release. NVidia's cards are really nice. NVidia's drivers are really nice.
As stated, this was an oversight and will be fixed. They care about both the customer and their own necks. What good company doesn't care about both?
As for the drivers they have about three choices right?
One - open source the driver. This isn't NVidia's plan or business model and I can't blame them for not doing so, they write good drivers on their own and I wouldn't want other companies being able to release an open source driver with half of my code in it. NVidia has done some amazing things through their software, at least in the windows side of things. They did SLI through software when 3dfx had to hardwire it in. Not only that but games ran 20 fps faster with this software fix. No wonder NVidia doesn't want their code to get out.
Two - kill the driver. They should be able to say it was their bad and stop, right? That would cause them not to be in violation anymore, because the driver wouldn't exist for anybody to download. Sure there are copies that others have, but NVidia wouldn't be distributing it anymore. You might still be able to sue, but then under the same thought you could sue if they changed the driver to use no GPL'd code today, because they did use GPL'd code in the driver before the change. This probably wouldn't be the swiftest move, because it would piss off the people with NVidia cards that wanted a driver for linux. Of course they wouldn't be in violation anymore...
Three - continue to violate the GPL for another week or two. This really isn't that long, and allows people with good hardware to have drivers to utilize it. Considering much of the gaming market is in Windows software NVidia would still have a market for their cards without linux drivers. Hell, they've had that market long enough and are doing great. Considering linux users probably want NVidia to release drivers to linux NVidia has a little bit of breathing room, right? It will be fixed and in the meantime the users can be happy with the drivers.
They were polite and are taking care of the problem fast. Let them off so they'll keep working at solutions for linux. Or sue them and watch them drop linux. Watch other companies follow suit when they realize that they can get burned big time if one employee makes an oversight. Linux has a lot to lose by being too aggressive. Nvidia's cards are really nice and I wonder who would be losing more, Nvidia or linux?
Umm... The Special Edition films are, IMHO, one of the best things that Lucas could have done. Not being old enough to have seen the originals in the theater, the special eddition films gave me a chance to see all three on the big screen. It was breathtaking, amazing, and a dream come true. I saw each multiple times. Then the Phantom Menace came out. Yes, I was really hyped up for it, who wasn't? But when I got to the theater, I was still, I don't know, kid enough to suspend my view of the real world to enjoy the movie. Really, that movie goes back to the basics of what is Star Wars. Yes Jar Jar was annoying, but was technically amazing. The pod race was well done, not just superfluous graphics. The notion that trusting the force came out there. Destroying the trade federation ship, just like the death star. The movie was awesome if you weren't going into the theater as a disallusioned adult hoping that TPM was A New Hope all over again. Next time you see it let yourself be immersed in the world Lucas creates. He is a master crafter of worlds and movies. I hope the next two are just as good, minus jar jar. I think that TPM was definately robbed.
In win2k at least windows media player is a nice thing to have. It supports a load of different formats and I haven't managed to crash the stupid thing. Really, did anybody expect MS to leave linux alone? They wrote software to run on an apple and they can do the same for linux. There isn't anything saying they can't, nor are they really going to stop trying to spread through the market. Isn't that their whole plan? We still have a choice so if it isn't a good, stable program don't use it. If its good what does it really matter?
My dorm has a quad t3 servicing only it. Only 800 people, I've seen my card running at full 10 Mbps capacity. Ah, its great. I'm gonna miss it if I leave the dorms next year.
Well, most people didn't start counting with zero but in every program I've ever written all my arrays seem to start with zero. So I guess a large portion of the computer crowd starts counting with zero, and it is after all the first non-negative integer. I say in light of these facts we should let the countless masses start counting like computer programmers.:)
I agree, and have a few questions of my own to add. First, do we really want a bunch of little Microsofts running around? At least with one big Microsoft we can see what they are doing, where they are going, and what we can do to respond to this upcoming OS/Browser/Server/Whatever else is in this one big bloated product. Now lets think what would happen if MS was reorganized into a smaller browser company, a OS company, a server company, a whatever else company. Kinda scary huh? They might be able to produce some good, stable, small company products which would be better for the non-computer literate masses, but would put more pressure on linux. One of the reasons I feel linux is doing so well now is that people are waking up and realizing that it is superior in many ways to windows. What happens when the reorganization of MS helps them instead of hurts them? More people would go back to being owned by a baby MS because the products would be better than they were, and they're already familiar with windows. Lots of companies may just give up and say, I knew how to use windows well, I can still use it well, the product is now more stable, less buggy, better, and I feel I only have about a 1/3 tight of grip on linux because I'm just starting to use that command line thing again... Line of thinking leads to MS again.
Secondly, is this not a really big slap in the face to linux? The judge stating MS has a monopoly. We all know the definition, no compitition. Does this mean that linux isn't worthy of competing with windows? I would argue till I was blue in the face that linux is a competitor, so I guess in my definition MS doesn't have a monopoly. But man, for a judge to say that there isn't any competition, even if linux has but a small hold on the OS community for the intel/client machines, I think most here would argue that linux is growing, is a good product, and is competition for MS. And granted if you have a decent connection to the net you can download any distro's cd image file, Red Hat charges $70 where I live to get the CDs and manuals. There is competition there. Not to mention how many file systems are there? FAT, FAT32, NTFS are the three that MS uses, I know that linux uses its own, OS/2 uses its own, all the OSs use there own file system and there are a ton of them, that has to say that there is at least marginal competition as well.
Lastly, is Bill really doing something that anybody wouldn't do? How many of you, upon owning a software business, would allow a competitor to produce a product which would cripple your company? Nobody would do anything illegal like break kneecaps, but I know I would try to develop better products and keep current customers in any way possible. MS has been using the fact that it has a ton of software to keep people tied in. That is the primary reason that I still have a partition on my box dedicated to NT. Not because I particualarly enjoy the OS itself, linux is IMHO far better, but because MS has some software that I need, and it has the games as well. I like games and well, if I'm willing to drop $3000 on a sweet computer with the latest technology, I'm going to play all the games I want. I spend most of my time in linux, but games like GTA2, Dune 2000, and whole slews of other games are not on linux. I keeps me with a copy of a MS product though, something that, well, just kinda happens. Buying other companies like buying groceries, it keeps MS on top of things, gets them new programmers I would assume, and gets them new technology they weren't developing but are now. Its not like businesses trading hands is anything new to people. AOL aquires new companies, netscape and nullsoft included, and nobody whines about them being enormous. We just chuckle, pat our computer and thank the heavens for DSL. No biggie. I think we too should be chuckling, patting our computers and thanking the heavens of linux. We don't need to break up MS any more than we need to break up AOL. They're annoying and sometimes we wish they would go away, but as soon as people wake up they will. I too, think the government should keep its nose out of MS. They will fall someday, and Bill knows it, and has admitted that MS will eventually be replaced. Make it happen by the force of economics though, not through government intervention. We need the government to intervene in all of our lives less and not more. We can take care of ourselves DOJ, thank you very much.
What I would like to see, expanding upon the CAD comment, is a 3d environment, with the typical title bar, except it would have four faces, then a cube of a window, not flat, but see through. That way, say a CAD object, would be represented in 3d space, being rendered from whatever angle you wanted to see it from. It would kill the top, front, side view that plagues many programs, IMHO. Then a person could rotate the "window" which is more a cube, or rotate around the window, take your pick, allowing a better grasp of the object. Perhaps for familiarity sake the top, front, side view could rotate along so you always see them flat, and presto! a nicer CAD program. I think, at least for the casual, untrained user of such a program, ad 3d window manager might be a boon.
Actually, I had heard of this at least being in development from a friend who has a close relative working at Intel US. Early this year he told me that they were working on finishing Williamette. I wouldn't put it past Intel to sit on the chip for 9 months and milk Coppermine if they could, it would be a bad marketing decision to create the Coppermine and Williamette simultaneously, then release both in a short span of time. Obviously it would kill the sales of Coppermine. But if you have the resources, and look at the size of chipzilla, why not develop multiple processors at once?
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You're all missing the point on how computers can be helpful in the classroom. They are tools not teachers. If your teacher is so horrible and can't teach the computer isn't going to make up for this. Its like expecting the blackboard to teach kids, except the computer is a little more interactive than a blackboard.
There are tons of free compilers out and about, not just for linux either. Search yahoo for free compiler, there are many. Of course that might require a download, but a teacher who is going to use a computer as a tool to help teach should know how to do that.
Screw educational software. Educational software is crap, I'll give you that. So don't use it. The good stuff is the programming stuff, and the presentation software. How many high school lectures could have been made more interesting by using an actual presentation, instead of a dull, monotone lecture with a teacher whose back is always turned and writing at the blackboard? And don't whine about attention span either. We don't have to be bored anymore, ok? Get that? Being interesting helps the learning process. Sure teachers aren't supposed to be entertainers, but any attempt at arousing interest is better than just feeding fact after fact.
So the admins suck, thats a general fact of school labs because yes, nobody wants to be a school network admin and everybody tries to have a job elsewhere. That pretty much means that there's always an exploit. Neither my grade nor high school admins were competent enough to keep me where they wanted me. Nobody knew security. It kept the masses inline, but gave us with some knowhow a little challenge. Some real thinking, how to get to king's quest when only the teacher has read permissions to the directory. My high school actually gave me an independent study and had me do a little admining of my own. You may think that proves your point that computers are bad in a classroom, but I don't see how a challenge like this could be bad. But you're breaking the rules you say. So were the kids too dumb to use a computer and pummeling each other on the playground. And now look who has a better job and future. And learning how to use a computer wasn't hurting anybody either, they still learned other things. Its not as though computers are doing all the teaching, thats why we have teachers .
Also, so what if the kids know more than the teachers. Are teachers too old to learn? Not all the kids are going to know more, anyway. There will always be the teachers who know nothing about technology, but how much use of computers are they going to make? Remember these are tools, a time and a place to use them. Most teachers can make a powerpoint presentation, and with the wizards make it look decent. Most of the time it wasn't a computer class anyway, so if I was helping to get the presentation in order so what? In my experience there was really only me and a few others who could beat any teacher skillwise with computers. And when the teachers had problems they came running to me, giving me a chance to teach and learn people skills.
Sure, if you think that the teachers are going to be replaced by computers you're in for a rude awakening. Like I said before, they're tools. When used properly, not as babysitters, they're going to be helpful. I started using computers at 3, most of my intelligent friends started using computers by 3rd grade. We carried through high school some of the highest GPAs, I was in the top 3% of my class of about 450. We're still doing so in college. The computer competent seem to be the most competent people I've met. Figure out how to use them in a classroom, and where its important to use them and they will do good. Don't blame the sloth and incompetence of some teachers on machines though. Teachers need to teach in order for kids to learn. Computers are just one more tool to help.
Wow, long rant.
What the hell are you babbeling about? 5GB of music hardly sounds like a collection that you couldn't appreciate. Mine is 2GB, and thats only 550 some songs.
Now lets see here... Assume 10 tracks to a CD. This is a light estimate too, but just assume it for a second. Now you go and buy your 100 disk changer. Wow, 1000 songs, maybe 3.75GB of music there.
Does this mean that people that can fill 100 disc changers don't appreciate music? To hell with that thought. They love music. They're the people that buy $1000+ receivers. They're the people with transistor radios. They're... you get the point.
Granted though people with transistor radios wouldn't reduce themselves to mp3, there is a slight degradation of quality. Unless of course you rip your CDs at 330k or something ungodly like that, and who has the space on their HD for that? Still, at 128k there isn't that much degradation and with good speakers, a sound blaster live and a receiver of some quality the sound is good. You can definately still listen to and enjoy that music. I'm not complaining.
And maybe learn to listen to music, not just amass it...
Just because you have a large collection of music doesn't mean you don't appreciate it, or love the better songs in the playlist, or don't know the words to nearly each song. I can sing along with almost the entirety of my playlist.
Still, I haven't downloaded anything I don't have the rights to listen to. Of that large collection I have all the CDs. I don't want to buy a big changer when my computer suffices. Hell, I like being able to pick by song title and not try to remember CD number and then track number on top of that.
I personally don't care for Metallica. I have one tape, the self titled black one. After that I don't really think they put out more than 1 or 2 good songs. Who really cares if they're trying to prevent abuse of their copyright. You'd do the same. You'd be furious if people were stealing something you worked hard to do and you didn't want it distributed along channels which weren't controlled. They still suck, but they have a right to defend their copyright. This isn't really the best way to do it, but what really is the best way?
Anybody who runs intel can go download a program from their site which gives clock speed, and with the PIIIs the expected speed as well. Don't even have to run windows, there's a version that boots off a disk.
He's right too, most of the users are probably minors. Is Metallica going to drag thousands of 13 year olds to court? Even if they are trying to defend their copyright they're looking like asses in the attempt. I don't want to back them up by buying a CD. I'm gonna go buy Limp Bizkit's CD instead, and support a band that isn't afraid of technology.
As stated, this was an oversight and will be fixed. They care about both the customer and their own necks. What good company doesn't care about both?
As for the drivers they have about three choices right?
One - open source the driver. This isn't NVidia's plan or business model and I can't blame them for not doing so, they write good drivers on their own and I wouldn't want other companies being able to release an open source driver with half of my code in it. NVidia has done some amazing things through their software, at least in the windows side of things. They did SLI through software when 3dfx had to hardwire it in. Not only that but games ran 20 fps faster with this software fix. No wonder NVidia doesn't want their code to get out.
Two - kill the driver. They should be able to say it was their bad and stop, right? That would cause them not to be in violation anymore, because the driver wouldn't exist for anybody to download. Sure there are copies that others have, but NVidia wouldn't be distributing it anymore. You might still be able to sue, but then under the same thought you could sue if they changed the driver to use no GPL'd code today, because they did use GPL'd code in the driver before the change. This probably wouldn't be the swiftest move, because it would piss off the people with NVidia cards that wanted a driver for linux. Of course they wouldn't be in violation anymore...
Three - continue to violate the GPL for another week or two. This really isn't that long, and allows people with good hardware to have drivers to utilize it. Considering much of the gaming market is in Windows software NVidia would still have a market for their cards without linux drivers. Hell, they've had that market long enough and are doing great. Considering linux users probably want NVidia to release drivers to linux NVidia has a little bit of breathing room, right? It will be fixed and in the meantime the users can be happy with the drivers.
They were polite and are taking care of the problem fast. Let them off so they'll keep working at solutions for linux. Or sue them and watch them drop linux. Watch other companies follow suit when they realize that they can get burned big time if one employee makes an oversight. Linux has a lot to lose by being too aggressive. Nvidia's cards are really nice and I wonder who would be losing more, Nvidia or linux?
Well, considering that a goodly size of the population are a bunch of morons, I would say that Artificial Intelligence is better than none.
Umm... The Special Edition films are, IMHO, one of the best things that Lucas could have done. Not being old enough to have seen the originals in the theater, the special eddition films gave me a chance to see all three on the big screen. It was breathtaking, amazing, and a dream come true. I saw each multiple times. Then the Phantom Menace came out. Yes, I was really hyped up for it, who wasn't? But when I got to the theater, I was still, I don't know, kid enough to suspend my view of the real world to enjoy the movie. Really, that movie goes back to the basics of what is Star Wars. Yes Jar Jar was annoying, but was technically amazing. The pod race was well done, not just superfluous graphics. The notion that trusting the force came out there. Destroying the trade federation ship, just like the death star. The movie was awesome if you weren't going into the theater as a disallusioned adult hoping that TPM was A New Hope all over again. Next time you see it let yourself be immersed in the world Lucas creates. He is a master crafter of worlds and movies. I hope the next two are just as good, minus jar jar. I think that TPM was definately robbed.
In win2k at least windows media player is a nice thing to have. It supports a load of different formats and I haven't managed to crash the stupid thing. Really, did anybody expect MS to leave linux alone? They wrote software to run on an apple and they can do the same for linux. There isn't anything saying they can't, nor are they really going to stop trying to spread through the market. Isn't that their whole plan? We still have a choice so if it isn't a good, stable program don't use it. If its good what does it really matter?
My dorm has a quad t3 servicing only it. Only 800 people, I've seen my card running at full 10 Mbps capacity. Ah, its great. I'm gonna miss it if I leave the dorms next year.
Well, most people didn't start counting with zero but in every program I've ever written all my arrays seem to start with zero. So I guess a large portion of the computer crowd starts counting with zero, and it is after all the first non-negative integer. I say in light of these facts we should let the countless masses start counting like computer programmers. :)
Secondly, is this not a really big slap in the face to linux? The judge stating MS has a monopoly. We all know the definition, no compitition. Does this mean that linux isn't worthy of competing with windows? I would argue till I was blue in the face that linux is a competitor, so I guess in my definition MS doesn't have a monopoly. But man, for a judge to say that there isn't any competition, even if linux has but a small hold on the OS community for the intel/client machines, I think most here would argue that linux is growing, is a good product, and is competition for MS. And granted if you have a decent connection to the net you can download any distro's cd image file, Red Hat charges $70 where I live to get the CDs and manuals. There is competition there. Not to mention how many file systems are there? FAT, FAT32, NTFS are the three that MS uses, I know that linux uses its own, OS/2 uses its own, all the OSs use there own file system and there are a ton of them, that has to say that there is at least marginal competition as well.
Lastly, is Bill really doing something that anybody wouldn't do? How many of you, upon owning a software business, would allow a competitor to produce a product which would cripple your company? Nobody would do anything illegal like break kneecaps, but I know I would try to develop better products and keep current customers in any way possible. MS has been using the fact that it has a ton of software to keep people tied in. That is the primary reason that I still have a partition on my box dedicated to NT. Not because I particualarly enjoy the OS itself, linux is IMHO far better, but because MS has some software that I need, and it has the games as well. I like games and well, if I'm willing to drop $3000 on a sweet computer with the latest technology, I'm going to play all the games I want. I spend most of my time in linux, but games like GTA2, Dune 2000, and whole slews of other games are not on linux. I keeps me with a copy of a MS product though, something that, well, just kinda happens. Buying other companies like buying groceries, it keeps MS on top of things, gets them new programmers I would assume, and gets them new technology they weren't developing but are now. Its not like businesses trading hands is anything new to people. AOL aquires new companies, netscape and nullsoft included, and nobody whines about them being enormous. We just chuckle, pat our computer and thank the heavens for DSL. No biggie. I think we too should be chuckling, patting our computers and thanking the heavens of linux. We don't need to break up MS any more than we need to break up AOL. They're annoying and sometimes we wish they would go away, but as soon as people wake up they will. I too, think the government should keep its nose out of MS. They will fall someday, and Bill knows it, and has admitted that MS will eventually be replaced. Make it happen by the force of economics though, not through government intervention. We need the government to intervene in all of our lives less and not more. We can take care of ourselves DOJ, thank you very much.
What I would like to see, expanding upon the CAD comment, is a 3d environment, with the typical title bar, except it would have four faces, then a cube of a window, not flat, but see through. That way, say a CAD object, would be represented in 3d space, being rendered from whatever angle you wanted to see it from. It would kill the top, front, side view that plagues many programs, IMHO. Then a person could rotate the "window" which is more a cube, or rotate around the window, take your pick, allowing a better grasp of the object. Perhaps for familiarity sake the top, front, side view could rotate along so you always see them flat, and presto! a nicer CAD program. I think, at least for the casual, untrained user of such a program, ad 3d window manager might be a boon.
Actually, I had heard of this at least being in development from a friend who has a close relative working at Intel US. Early this year he told me that they were working on finishing Williamette. I wouldn't put it past Intel to sit on the chip for 9 months and milk Coppermine if they could, it would be a bad marketing decision to create the Coppermine and Williamette simultaneously, then release both in a short span of time. Obviously it would kill the sales of Coppermine. But if you have the resources, and look at the size of chipzilla, why not develop multiple processors at once?