People know about M$ because M$ has misbehaved not because M$ wants people to know things. M$ leaks like a sieve because their employees hate their company. This is how the rest of the world gets Halloween Documents, and other fun outside of lawsuits. Lawsuits are the result of everyone else's outrage and reveal even more. Calling that kind of hate and animosity "transparency" is a brazen lie. Actual disclosure will get you fired.
don't be so gun ho to accuse admins of wrong doing
It's not always the "admins" fault, they are doing what's legally required. Some, like the administration of UW, are more willing tools than others but ultimately the problem is a legal one.
you have to at least know where the computer is in case there is software on it that can cause havoc so you can shut it down
You don't have to violate people's privacy to shut down misbehaving equipment. Technical people know this and also know the wire tapping requirements can not be justified this way.
I suspect you know this too but either want to be an ass or are in favor of privacy violations and other lawless action. Both make you an ass and both ultimately lead to a loss of freedom.
The UW admins keep this information because otherwise it is hard to find the guy that trying to DOS your mail server into oblivion. Student networks are notorious for having internal attackers of all different kinds. If you were an admin you'd want to be able to put a finger on the students too.
That's crap from start to finish. Network administrators have these systems in place due to federal wiretapping laws and clueless pressure. All networks have a DoS problem and you won't get a finger on it with half ass tracking to catch supposed file traders. DoS and spam attacks come from widespread use of insecure client software like Windows. Finally, co-operating with this blatant shakedown is pathetic. The evidence is flimsy and the University should be giving their students sound legal advice and defense in what's really a civil dispute. Don't try to tell me that co-operating with this scam has anything to do with punishing criminals. It's about stripping people of their rights for money.
Take away the anonymity and people start to behave in a civilized manner. That's just how things work.
Do you think people in jail are civilized? They lack anonymity, privacy, speech, freedom of movement and association, yet they still do horrible things to themselves and their guards. Do you think treating innocent people like criminals will make them any nicer? There is no free speech without anonymity, do you mind giving up your whole society's right to peacefully protest that way? Do you think societies like that are safe places to live? They are not, neither for the oppressors or the oppressed because a society without rights is one without laws, much like the one that exists within prison. It is selfish and savage.
any student who says "sue me" can claim "it wasn't me" and depose the university staff who identified them to pick apart their methodology. And if they find any flaw in the methodology, they can sue the University.
I can sort of understand why it is that the ISPs shield their customers.
You should not think of this as shielding because that would imply some kind of guilt. This is a refusal to pass on unreliable identification based on even less reliable hearsay evidence of a minor infraction to people who are using it as a shake down by abusing the leagal system. From start to finish this is an abusive scam by people who have robbed and cheated everyone, especially the artists they claim to represent. The RIAA and those who co-operate with them are the real criminals.
Dedicated M$ fan and life sucker dedazo tops himself with this one. His adherence to six or seven M$ applications has clearly blinded him to the real world of computing.
your idea of "choice" is "whatever I happen to think is right for you and me".
My idea of what's wrong for you excludes a small collection of expensive and inferior software. It's inferior because it's not free. Not only does it not respect your rights and ownership of your computer, it's can't compete in quality, ease of use or documentation. My idea of what's good for you includes tens of thousands of excellent applications that run on dozens of computer hardware platforms. They have been compiled and collected into hundreds of competent and complete distributions, using a variety of toolchains and kernels.
Wake up dedazo, there's a whole world waiting outside of Bill Gates basement.
Do you think, possibly, that the BBC might be trying to find the most cost-effective option?
No, they are cow towing to WIPO and US interests. The cost here are entirely created by software patents. The BBC should violate those patents instead of paying license fees and forcing their users onto Windoze. The cost of the Windoze monopoly in lost work and intentional waste is an order of magnitude greater than M$'s revenues. BBC endorsement of M$ harms everyone because those costs are passed on.
why are you worried about it [Vista] "sucking life" again?
It pains me to see people robbed of choice and freedom. Eventually, it threatens my own.
It would further pain me to see M$ "Fucking Kill Google". Google is a great American company that's creating a considerable amount of wealth for themselves and others.
Finally, I never said I cared. What I said was that Google had better take M$ on in the OS space. If Vista catches on, they are just as screwed as Digital Research, OS/2, Word Perfect, Netscape and a host of other worthy companies and applications. They don't really have to release their own OS, they just have to support and encourage the others. They are doing a good job.
The BBC is a useful thing to have around, like schools and hospitals and welfare it's a good thing even if you might not use it personally.
Oh please don't tell me that people will have to pay Bill Gates before they can use schools, hospitals or welfare.
Wait, what was the reason for going with Windoze only digital restrictions? So the BBC and their audience can give Bill Gates money for nothing? To give preference to a foreign company over domestic software?
Have you ever wondered about the mentality of those who advocate government financing of intellectual and artistic pursuits, in the name of intellectual independence and creative freedom?
You might have a point, if this were anything more than a efficiency motivated form change. The experts are already spending their time writing the same material over and over for newspapers. Contributing source material to Wikipedia instead does nothing but save time.
M$ is a small part of the fantasy "IP" Empire some deluded people believe in. Other members are big oil, telco, pharmacy, insurance and financial institutions. Their attitude is ugly but even while ascendent it should in no way be mistaken for real American attitudes or values. They have abused the US government and it's laws and used the US military power to force more of the same around the world, but the backlash is here. Making friends with China has been a disaster and the IP fantasy people increasingly talk about "offshoring" their operations to blackmail the US Government further. Actual Americans are fed up with the whole thing, but if you think they are angry with US companies that have sold them out to Chinese slave labor, just wait until they are asked to do things on behalf of companies based in the Bahamas or Dubai. Fat chance.
The real spirit of America is still enshrined in it's constitution and bill of rights. Those, more than silly, made up corporate and "IP" rights motivate US citizens. It is in that spirit that GNU was founded and grew. M$'s vendor manipulation and marketing billions have bought them some misguided adherents, but they are further and fewer between than ever before. M$ would strip their user of their freedom and choice in something as slippery as software. A command economy based on software, can their be a dumber concept than that? Ultimately, people hate restrictions and being forced to press "I Agree", so the game can't last.
Apple is more content with knowing that users in supported enterprise/academic/government environments can get Macs and use nifty technologies like Parallels, VMware, Boot Camp, etc., but isn't interested in getting into the Windows game itself.
This is about ending the Windoze game. Apple is offering a safety blanket so that people can user Apple and other applications without fear of not being able to work with dreaded M$ enslaved coworkers. Their users, in turn, will do what they can to interact in standards based ways like Open Office, Google Office and anything but Office 2007. Being able to run Office 2007 in a virtual machine, minimizes Windoze created hardware problems and eliminates the "networking" game M$ uses to push it's upgrade train.
A better way to end that train is to make government use ODF and return all Office Docs to their source with a note that tells the clueless sender why you can't work with them.
The upgrade train is already fatally damaged. Vista is not selling and both it and Office 2007 have been baned almost everywhere. Google and Sun have useful and free alternatives that won't wreck your work in a few years because neither can decide it's time to overhall things to generate revenue. Apple is happy to join the pack of rebels. The lack of Vista sales is hurting hardware makers enough to discredit the perpetual upgrade train for them. This destroys M$'s ability to manipulate hardware vendors and will ultimately bring about real hardware standards and competition. M$'s days of BIOS sabotage are numbered.
Do you really trust M$? Their search engine sucked before, as documented by the story linked above. They lie to their customers, to the government, their developers and to their own employees. What makes you think you can trust them?
Why are they bothering trying to change the wreckage that is Vista, instead of releasing their own OS? Frankly at this rate I'm surprised GoogleOS hasn't already been announced.
They had better. The consent decree expires in November. If that means what I think it means, Vista is going to suck life more obviously than it already does. It's like they've ignored the consent decree, even while it's in effect. Normal people are unable to think of what M$ will do next.
Motive power is from a two-stage steam turbine, fed by a boiler fired on LPG.... The boiler section is in the centre of the car directly behind the single seat cockpit.... with a bulkhead between the driver and the powertrain.
Ah yes, the very important bulkhead between driver and 4MW of blue blazes and steam. Steam turbine powered craft do better on an ocean of cooling material or fixed next to a very large body of water. Launching one at 200 MPH on land is, well, crazy.
... someday that power will expose their secrets and then be used organize their fall from power.
How do you organize the memory hole? The problem with censored electronic media is that it eliminates the ability to reference. If your references disappear and organizers are put in jail, there will only be one coherent story.
Your analysis is correct and what the American Electronics Association says should be rejected, but they did not intend to be honest. They claimed the technology is already in widespread use without problems, which is a lie. They then essentially called Simitian an extremist while refusing to discuss the issues. It's typical PR BS and we can expect more of the same from this same group and others.
The truth is that the technology itself is dangerous and unnecessary. Society does not need unique identifiers for mass produced articles like shirts and shoes. It is dangerous enough to create a unique identifier for each type of article for inventory. Unique identifiers for everything, which can be read at a distance, make subdermal implants superfluous. Everone can be tracked and recognized where ever they go by the objects they own. The dangers of the technology itself should be well known before it's forced onto people.
That's a nice article but it makes the industry look more reasonable than it is. If Scott Silverman, chief executive officer of VeriChip Corp., is in favor of bans of abuse, he needs to recalibrate the American Electronics Association and work to make sure his principles are upheld.
Very strong protection is required to keep us from ending up with implants we don't have any control over. There are several economic incentives for them. They are cheaper than ordinary ID cards and the employee can't lose them. Once a significant number of "voluntary" users are obtained, it's very easy for companies to start requiring them. They are already moving to schemes that will allow identification though your clothes and other personal items anyway. The same kind of thing happened with social security numbers, a mess that was predicted, happened despite laws against it and is still being cleaned up after all sorts of needless economic harm. Unchecked RFIDs will be even worse.
My journal article has links to the Senator's website and other articles.
Ok, it is your good right to refuse, it is our good right to choose an employee, accepts it.
Your employees have rights and so do you but you don't really have a right to impose unfairly on your employees. When you have an economic incentive to do so, it's in society's best interest to make laws that destroy that incentive. Go ahead, break the law and pay the fine if it's worth it to you. Everyone else will be free of needing surgery to keep their job.
In a real free market, the RFID people will have to compete and make privacy respecting products people want to own. They should offer such alternatives instead of trying to bullshit their way through.
This is not an honest response. Besides not answering questions about the specific bill, they make the misleading statements you noticed and set the impossible criteria of limiting abuse without calling it abuse. The RFID industry does not want an informed public, a fair debate or anything else that might limit deployment of their toys. Shame on them.
I have links to three articles on the subject in my journal. You can read that and see the same conversation there as you see here. I'm sure the oversite will be corrected, but the above will do in the mean time.
[blah, blah, blah] i can post a link to that thread on the mailing list, if you want. i can be 'manacing' and all that. we are a lot of cool threads there otherwise, dont get all cocky, ok? just carry on....
I expect nothing less of you idiots than for you to do your worst and to be completely ineffective.
"Would you also be so kind as to post my M$ file one day?"
that can crtainly be arranged willy. here, to the brlug, to your inbox and many other places. even the ones you dont know about. over and over and over. i can start running that script again, if you want. just ask nicely, it would be my pleasure.
Spamming the BRLUG was creepy, but it did not go very far. They all laughed too and told you to fuck off. Like everyone else, you dirt bags only have the power to disgrace yourselves.
Slashdot Mirror
What amazing spin:
Microsoft is an amazingly transparent company.
People know about M$ because M$ has misbehaved not because M$ wants people to know things. M$ leaks like a sieve because their employees hate their company. This is how the rest of the world gets Halloween Documents, and other fun outside of lawsuits. Lawsuits are the result of everyone else's outrage and reveal even more. Calling that kind of hate and animosity "transparency" is a brazen lie. Actual disclosure will get you fired.
don't be so gun ho to accuse admins of wrong doing
It's not always the "admins" fault, they are doing what's legally required. Some, like the administration of UW, are more willing tools than others but ultimately the problem is a legal one.
you have to at least know where the computer is in case there is software on it that can cause havoc so you can shut it down
You don't have to violate people's privacy to shut down misbehaving equipment. Technical people know this and also know the wire tapping requirements can not be justified this way.
I suspect you know this too but either want to be an ass or are in favor of privacy violations and other lawless action. Both make you an ass and both ultimately lead to a loss of freedom.
The UW admins keep this information because otherwise it is hard to find the guy that trying to DOS your mail server into oblivion. Student networks are notorious for having internal attackers of all different kinds. If you were an admin you'd want to be able to put a finger on the students too.
That's crap from start to finish. Network administrators have these systems in place due to federal wiretapping laws and clueless pressure. All networks have a DoS problem and you won't get a finger on it with half ass tracking to catch supposed file traders. DoS and spam attacks come from widespread use of insecure client software like Windows. Finally, co-operating with this blatant shakedown is pathetic. The evidence is flimsy and the University should be giving their students sound legal advice and defense in what's really a civil dispute. Don't try to tell me that co-operating with this scam has anything to do with punishing criminals. It's about stripping people of their rights for money.
Take away the anonymity and people start to behave in a civilized manner. That's just how things work.
Do you think people in jail are civilized? They lack anonymity, privacy, speech, freedom of movement and association, yet they still do horrible things to themselves and their guards. Do you think treating innocent people like criminals will make them any nicer? There is no free speech without anonymity, do you mind giving up your whole society's right to peacefully protest that way? Do you think societies like that are safe places to live? They are not, neither for the oppressors or the oppressed because a society without rights is one without laws, much like the one that exists within prison. It is selfish and savage.
Wow, that's right.
any student who says "sue me" can claim "it wasn't me" and depose the university staff who identified them to pick apart their methodology. And if they find any flaw in the methodology, they can sue the University.
Class action anyone?
I can sort of understand why it is that the ISPs shield their customers.
You should not think of this as shielding because that would imply some kind of guilt. This is a refusal to pass on unreliable identification based on even less reliable hearsay evidence of a minor infraction to people who are using it as a shake down by abusing the leagal system. From start to finish this is an abusive scam by people who have robbed and cheated everyone, especially the artists they claim to represent. The RIAA and those who co-operate with them are the real criminals.
Dedicated M$ fan and life sucker dedazo tops himself with this one. His adherence to six or seven M$ applications has clearly blinded him to the real world of computing.
your idea of "choice" is "whatever I happen to think is right for you and me".
My idea of what's wrong for you excludes a small collection of expensive and inferior software. It's inferior because it's not free. Not only does it not respect your rights and ownership of your computer, it's can't compete in quality, ease of use or documentation. My idea of what's good for you includes tens of thousands of excellent applications that run on dozens of computer hardware platforms. They have been compiled and collected into hundreds of competent and complete distributions, using a variety of toolchains and kernels.
Wake up dedazo, there's a whole world waiting outside of Bill Gates basement.
Do you think, possibly, that the BBC might be trying to find the most cost-effective option?
No, they are cow towing to WIPO and US interests. The cost here are entirely created by software patents. The BBC should violate those patents instead of paying license fees and forcing their users onto Windoze. The cost of the Windoze monopoly in lost work and intentional waste is an order of magnitude greater than M$'s revenues. BBC endorsement of M$ harms everyone because those costs are passed on.
why are you worried about it [Vista] "sucking life" again?
It pains me to see people robbed of choice and freedom. Eventually, it threatens my own.
It would further pain me to see M$ "Fucking Kill Google". Google is a great American company that's creating a considerable amount of wealth for themselves and others.
Finally, I never said I cared. What I said was that Google had better take M$ on in the OS space. If Vista catches on, they are just as screwed as Digital Research, OS/2, Word Perfect, Netscape and a host of other worthy companies and applications. They don't really have to release their own OS, they just have to support and encourage the others. They are doing a good job.
The BBC is a useful thing to have around, like schools and hospitals and welfare it's a good thing even if you might not use it personally.
Oh please don't tell me that people will have to pay Bill Gates before they can use schools, hospitals or welfare.
Wait, what was the reason for going with Windoze only digital restrictions? So the BBC and their audience can give Bill Gates money for nothing? To give preference to a foreign company over domestic software?
The late, great Anne is invoked:
You might have a point, if this were anything more than a efficiency motivated form change. The experts are already spending their time writing the same material over and over for newspapers. Contributing source material to Wikipedia instead does nothing but save time.
M$ is a small part of the fantasy "IP" Empire some deluded people believe in. Other members are big oil, telco, pharmacy, insurance and financial institutions. Their attitude is ugly but even while ascendent it should in no way be mistaken for real American attitudes or values. They have abused the US government and it's laws and used the US military power to force more of the same around the world, but the backlash is here. Making friends with China has been a disaster and the IP fantasy people increasingly talk about "offshoring" their operations to blackmail the US Government further. Actual Americans are fed up with the whole thing, but if you think they are angry with US companies that have sold them out to Chinese slave labor, just wait until they are asked to do things on behalf of companies based in the Bahamas or Dubai. Fat chance.
The real spirit of America is still enshrined in it's constitution and bill of rights. Those, more than silly, made up corporate and "IP" rights motivate US citizens. It is in that spirit that GNU was founded and grew. M$'s vendor manipulation and marketing billions have bought them some misguided adherents, but they are further and fewer between than ever before. M$ would strip their user of their freedom and choice in something as slippery as software. A command economy based on software, can their be a dumber concept than that? Ultimately, people hate restrictions and being forced to press "I Agree", so the game can't last.
Apple is more content with knowing that users in supported enterprise/academic/government environments can get Macs and use nifty technologies like Parallels, VMware, Boot Camp, etc., but isn't interested in getting into the Windows game itself.
This is about ending the Windoze game. Apple is offering a safety blanket so that people can user Apple and other applications without fear of not being able to work with dreaded M$ enslaved coworkers. Their users, in turn, will do what they can to interact in standards based ways like Open Office, Google Office and anything but Office 2007. Being able to run Office 2007 in a virtual machine, minimizes Windoze created hardware problems and eliminates the "networking" game M$ uses to push it's upgrade train.
A better way to end that train is to make government use ODF and return all Office Docs to their source with a note that tells the clueless sender why you can't work with them.
The upgrade train is already fatally damaged. Vista is not selling and both it and Office 2007 have been baned almost everywhere. Google and Sun have useful and free alternatives that won't wreck your work in a few years because neither can decide it's time to overhall things to generate revenue. Apple is happy to join the pack of rebels. The lack of Vista sales is hurting hardware makers enough to discredit the perpetual upgrade train for them. This destroys M$'s ability to manipulate hardware vendors and will ultimately bring about real hardware standards and competition. M$'s days of BIOS sabotage are numbered.
Do you really trust M$? Their search engine sucked before, as documented by the story linked above. They lie to their customers, to the government, their developers and to their own employees. What makes you think you can trust them?
Why are they bothering trying to change the wreckage that is Vista, instead of releasing their own OS? Frankly at this rate I'm surprised GoogleOS hasn't already been announced.
They had better. The consent decree expires in November. If that means what I think it means, Vista is going to suck life more obviously than it already does. It's like they've ignored the consent decree, even while it's in effect. Normal people are unable to think of what M$ will do next.
User Search Term: "Linux"
M$ Desktop Search, instant answer: "Windows in unable to find Linux on your Desktop" - BSoD -
Nothing new here! Does anyone in the whole wide world think M$ is going to do anything but sabotage a "competitor" on "their" platform?
Ah yes, the very important bulkhead between driver and 4MW of blue blazes and steam. Steam turbine powered craft do better on an ocean of cooling material or fixed next to a very large body of water. Launching one at 200 MPH on land is, well, crazy.
How do you organize the memory hole? The problem with censored electronic media is that it eliminates the ability to reference. If your references disappear and organizers are put in jail, there will only be one coherent story.
Your analysis is correct and what the American Electronics Association says should be rejected, but they did not intend to be honest. They claimed the technology is already in widespread use without problems, which is a lie. They then essentially called Simitian an extremist while refusing to discuss the issues. It's typical PR BS and we can expect more of the same from this same group and others.
The truth is that the technology itself is dangerous and unnecessary. Society does not need unique identifiers for mass produced articles like shirts and shoes. It is dangerous enough to create a unique identifier for each type of article for inventory. Unique identifiers for everything, which can be read at a distance, make subdermal implants superfluous. Everone can be tracked and recognized where ever they go by the objects they own. The dangers of the technology itself should be well known before it's forced onto people.
That's a nice article but it makes the industry look more reasonable than it is. If Scott Silverman, chief executive officer of VeriChip Corp., is in favor of bans of abuse, he needs to recalibrate the American Electronics Association and work to make sure his principles are upheld.
Very strong protection is required to keep us from ending up with implants we don't have any control over. There are several economic incentives for them. They are cheaper than ordinary ID cards and the employee can't lose them. Once a significant number of "voluntary" users are obtained, it's very easy for companies to start requiring them. They are already moving to schemes that will allow identification though your clothes and other personal items anyway. The same kind of thing happened with social security numbers, a mess that was predicted, happened despite laws against it and is still being cleaned up after all sorts of needless economic harm. Unchecked RFIDs will be even worse.
My journal article has links to the Senator's website and other articles.
Ok, it is your good right to refuse, it is our good right to choose an employee, accepts it.
Your employees have rights and so do you but you don't really have a right to impose unfairly on your employees. When you have an economic incentive to do so, it's in society's best interest to make laws that destroy that incentive. Go ahead, break the law and pay the fine if it's worth it to you. Everyone else will be free of needing surgery to keep their job.
In a real free market, the RFID people will have to compete and make privacy respecting products people want to own. They should offer such alternatives instead of trying to bullshit their way through.
This is not an honest response. Besides not answering questions about the specific bill, they make the misleading statements you noticed and set the impossible criteria of limiting abuse without calling it abuse. The RFID industry does not want an informed public, a fair debate or anything else that might limit deployment of their toys. Shame on them.
I have links to three articles on the subject in my journal. You can read that and see the same conversation there as you see here. I'm sure the oversite will be corrected, but the above will do in the mean time.
[blah, blah, blah] i can post a link to that thread on the mailing list, if you want. i can be 'manacing' and all that. we are a lot of cool threads there otherwise, dont get all cocky, ok? just carry on....
I expect nothing less of you idiots than for you to do your worst and to be completely ineffective.
The AC Troll tries to be manacing:
"Would you also be so kind as to post my M$ file one day?"
that can crtainly be arranged willy. here, to the brlug, to your inbox and many other places. even the ones you dont know about. over and over and over. i can start running that script again, if you want. just ask nicely, it would be my pleasure.
Spamming the BRLUG was creepy, but it did not go very far. They all laughed too and told you to fuck off. Like everyone else, you dirt bags only have the power to disgrace yourselves.