Your users wouldn't be happy if they knew all the legit email they are missing from SORBS. And I'll be more then happy to jump over your "professional" role and just talk to your customers and let them know what an idiot you are. I've done it before, and I get great delight getting them all riled up about your "professionalism". Every time I talk to the person who couldn't get my customers email because of people like you, magically the email works again.
Sorry buddy. You aren't a pro if you use SORBS. You are either ignorant, in which case you should read over this thread to learn or you are an asshole with a chip on your shoulder, in which case, well... you are soooooo good looking!
Seriously, you can't claim to be a professional and use SORBS. It is about the most unprofessional way to filter email ever.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was operating under the impression that it is the ISP who added them self to the list (for the most part). If this holds true, you probably *do* want to talk to your ISP as they are the ones who added your netblock.
That said, this stuff is a tricky deal I know. Most people using the Spamhaus stuff have been there, done that, when it comes to dealing with shitty RBL's. If spamhaus turns foul, most people will dump them.
But in my experience, their baseline "fuck you, we dont want to talk to you ever" filtering is pretty sane--it is basically filtering out fucked HELO's, bad tasting reverse DNS, and dialup/broadband users. It is their "hey pal, I know you are sending an announcement to like 5,000 yahoo.com addresses, but slow and try again in 5 hours" that gets annoying. All it takes is one person to mark their email as spam to throw a wrench in the 4,999 who a) love getting the updates and b) opted-in into them in the first place. I can understand why they do it, but it is annoying.
But YMMV as my gear is in the US and I'm on a US netblock. My hunch is life might not be so easy for those on other countries netblocks:-(
The days of the "Usenet Death Penalty" and whatnot are over. Every single webhost, ISP, Xbox running Linux, or IPv6 microwave has probably either been hacked and turned into a warez server for a day or been abused by some spammer who signed up for a few days before getting booted.
In otherwords, he who has not sinned cast the first stone. We've all had our networks abused. 95% of us aren't doing for "pink contracts". Those 5% "pink contract" people probably have to cut deals with satan himself to get an upstream that won't boot him. Nobody wants spammers on their network--they cost far too much for what they gain.
That is why RBL's like SORBS or SPEWS failed. They punish the 95% for the 5% and have no way to differentiate. With Bayesian filtering and some modern automated RBL's, we dont need or desire RBL's maintained by humans.
Or PBL... one of the two. Self listed too (as almost all of them are), as they dont want you to send email from their stuff. Sucks there are idiots in this world who don't understand the purpose of those lists:-(
Obviously you can't turn that off. I said "stop blocking based on SORBS". Huge, huge difference. And yes, there are idiots who block based on nothing more then SORBS. Ask me how I know.
Are those who let people delist simply by visiting a website and clicking "unlist me". After that, they are instantly unlisted. See also--spamhaus. You can pretty much outright block traffic listed in the PBL.
And I realize you aren't the kind of idiot who blocks based on SORBS (or god forbid SPEWS, remember them?), and you are an ISP so if you were filtering based on SORBS you wouldn't have much business anyway, so I'm not really talking about you--I'm talking about small to medium sized businesses and other hotspots of cluelessness... "Me" in this case is my ISP and my customers trying to send email to *you* and your funky smelling email servers. In other words, imagine if some asshole listed *your* ISP or one of your upstreams in SORBS... Your (er, my) customers are now bitching to *you* (er, me). This is what I'm ranting about here.
If you weren't willing to work with our support staff and provide us the necessary information to understand where our efforts were failing, you are useless.
If you are filtering inbound email based 100% on SORBS, you are clueless and it would be a waste of my time to deal with you. Why? Either you are ignorant (thus it wouldn't do me any good anyway) or you are an asshole who does this for kicks, in which case you'd tell me to FOAD. As such, talking to you is a waste of time.
I used to tell our sales staff we didn't want [you as a customer]
You are the IT guy. Why would they listen to you? The probably already hate your guts for installing some other spite-ware or have them change their password every week. They dont listen to you and they dont like you (again, I'm not talking about you sir, but the SORBS filtering BOFH guy--ISP's are typically not the type to filter this way anyway). My calling them is just more ammo to go after you. It is politics my friend:-)
Otherwise take your business to AOL or Comcast
Funny enough, AOL has a 24 hour 1-800 number you can call to talk with the postmaster.
A lot of people have had their lives turn into a living hell because of some listing on SORBS. Thus if it wasn't me who chewed you out, somebody else probably would have:-)
Spamhaus's PBL?* I filter on that... the friggen ISP's make up most of that list. I'm pretty damn sure AOL and friends filter off that list too and my motto is "if AOL or Yahoo filters mail based on XYZ policy, I will too". Plus, you can get off that list on a web page.
It is SORBS that I have an issue with. SORBS was created out of pure spite. So my apologies random internet person:-)
* Excepting Godaddy who is fucking insane. Those assholes filter *URL's pointing to a PBL'd IP that are embedded in a message*!!! Worse, they dont tell you. Had fun learning that.
and you are asking if there exists products that don't outright block based on crap like SORBS. In which case "You" refers the general type of idiot who I've dealt with that does block based on SORBS.
Your parent is right. There does exist a set of clueless people who straight filter based on RBL's like SORBS. Sure, filter your home mail server any way you want, but the *second* you have third-party people using your system (or the second you run the mail server for a business), you should be outright fired for filtering based solely on something like SORBS.
I figure if there is a real problem, that I will get a support call from a customer and I can act accordingly
That is because I dont waste my time calling you. I call your boss and your sales department. If you really are running a business mail server and filtering based on SORBS, you are basically clueless and I'll gain nothing talking to you Your sales staff though, I'm sure they'd be happy to know you are blocking my customers inquiries into your companies products. And I'm probably also sure that if you are the type who filters like that, they probably have a bunch of other issues with the way you run their systems and this just might be the straw that broke the camels back.
Do what I did on my website and detect when a user is on IE6 and give them a nice fat message saying "Upgrade you bozo. See these screenshots of how nice this site looks on a real website (links to screenshots)? You are missing out!".
Dont just drop the hacks, tell the IE6 users you are dropping the hacks and show them pictures of what they are missing out on!!
But you'd be a fool not to play the scam like everybody else. The rational choice for a person was to treat their home like an ATM, after it was a "sure bet" and if they didn't, they would regret it. Even if they knew it was a scam, they figured if they got screwed everybody was screwed so why not play?
In other words, good regulation can keep a bunch of individuals who are making rational decisions from screwing up the entire system. Sometimes what is right for one person is harmful to the whole. The lending crisis is an example of that.
I do find the idea that governance is something that gets discovered just like any other invention in history. It is almost as amusing as knowing the idea of "portfolio diversification" was a "discovery" made by some dude a while ago. I mean, it seems obvious that you should diversify your stock portfolio, but I guess before this guy came along nobody considered it. Democracy seems kind of obvious to me, but it took a while to get here.
So yeah, someday there will probably be some better form of government that will be "obvious" to those at the time. However right now we dont even know of its existence. Same as we didn't know the existence of portfolio diversification.
While any "western" democracy isn't perfect, I can't think any radically different system that would work better. Unless our technological changes affect our ability to survive or we somehow change basic human nature, I can't foresee any "massive revolution" that would lead to a completely different form of government. We've kind of figured out a good base system for governance and everything from now on is adjustments and refinements to the system.
Unless of course somebody hacked into Asus's website and added that link. You can tell it was hacked because if you play the video on itsbetterwithwindows.com frame by frame, there is one frame in the middle where if you squint you can see the reflection from a sign saying "p0wn3d by D4 Cr3w". A quick search of Google will turn up the fact that "D4 Cr3w" are the same folk who faked the moon landing in the 60's.
...Forget what you were doing entirely and start making food or feeding the cat. I love that... going on an (important) mission only to get to the destination and do something completely different without even knowing I was forgetting to do something else. Then the significant other asks "did you complete $task" only to go "oh yeah... that whole thing".
The president sets the tone of the government. His or her attitude gets projected all the way down the food chain. In the person at the top of the government thinks government sucks, why should anybody below care about their job either?
Not really. I'd say the opposite in fact. Your fancy 1080p plasma TV is the most expensive monitor in your entire house. If anything, using a laptop to watch any kind of media is old-fashioned. The "hip" way hasn't fully been formed yet, but soon enough, I personally think your TV and something like an iphone will take the place of your laptop. Well, let me qualify that, it will replace your laptop for recreational use, not work use.
But if wanting to watch a video with several people at the same time without huddling around a tiny screen is old-fashioned, I guess that makes me old-fashioned too!
Slashdot Mirror
Mono is dangerous because it isn't "DotGNU Portable.NET". In otherwords, it is dangerous because it wasn't created by the FSF.
In short:
In otherwords, I'm confused. Does he like C# or not? If he doesn't, why does the FSF have their own .NET implementation? What makes theirs so special?
Your users wouldn't be happy if they knew all the legit email they are missing from SORBS. And I'll be more then happy to jump over your "professional" role and just talk to your customers and let them know what an idiot you are. I've done it before, and I get great delight getting them all riled up about your "professionalism". Every time I talk to the person who couldn't get my customers email because of people like you, magically the email works again.
Sorry buddy. You aren't a pro if you use SORBS. You are either ignorant, in which case you should read over this thread to learn or you are an asshole with a chip on your shoulder, in which case, well... you are soooooo good looking!
Seriously, you can't claim to be a professional and use SORBS. It is about the most unprofessional way to filter email ever.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was operating under the impression that it is the ISP who added them self to the list (for the most part). If this holds true, you probably *do* want to talk to your ISP as they are the ones who added your netblock.
That said, this stuff is a tricky deal I know. Most people using the Spamhaus stuff have been there, done that, when it comes to dealing with shitty RBL's. If spamhaus turns foul, most people will dump them.
But in my experience, their baseline "fuck you, we dont want to talk to you ever" filtering is pretty sane--it is basically filtering out fucked HELO's, bad tasting reverse DNS, and dialup/broadband users. It is their "hey pal, I know you are sending an announcement to like 5,000 yahoo.com addresses, but slow and try again in 5 hours" that gets annoying. All it takes is one person to mark their email as spam to throw a wrench in the 4,999 who a) love getting the updates and b) opted-in into them in the first place. I can understand why they do it, but it is annoying.
But YMMV as my gear is in the US and I'm on a US netblock. My hunch is life might not be so easy for those on other countries netblocks :-(
The days of the "Usenet Death Penalty" and whatnot are over. Every single webhost, ISP, Xbox running Linux, or IPv6 microwave has probably either been hacked and turned into a warez server for a day or been abused by some spammer who signed up for a few days before getting booted.
In otherwords, he who has not sinned cast the first stone. We've all had our networks abused. 95% of us aren't doing for "pink contracts". Those 5% "pink contract" people probably have to cut deals with satan himself to get an upstream that won't boot him. Nobody wants spammers on their network--they cost far too much for what they gain.
That is why RBL's like SORBS or SPEWS failed. They punish the 95% for the 5% and have no way to differentiate. With Bayesian filtering and some modern automated RBL's, we dont need or desire RBL's maintained by humans.
Or PBL... one of the two. Self listed too (as almost all of them are), as they dont want you to send email from their stuff. Sucks there are idiots in this world who don't understand the purpose of those lists :-(
Obviously you can't turn that off. I said "stop blocking based on SORBS". Huge, huge difference. And yes, there are idiots who block based on nothing more then SORBS. Ask me how I know.
Are those who let people delist simply by visiting a website and clicking "unlist me". After that, they are instantly unlisted. See also--spamhaus. You can pretty much outright block traffic listed in the PBL.
And I realize you aren't the kind of idiot who blocks based on SORBS (or god forbid SPEWS, remember them?), and you are an ISP so if you were filtering based on SORBS you wouldn't have much business anyway, so I'm not really talking about you--I'm talking about small to medium sized businesses and other hotspots of cluelessness... "Me" in this case is my ISP and my customers trying to send email to *you* and your funky smelling email servers. In other words, imagine if some asshole listed *your* ISP or one of your upstreams in SORBS... Your (er, my) customers are now bitching to *you* (er, me). This is what I'm ranting about here.
If you are filtering inbound email based 100% on SORBS, you are clueless and it would be a waste of my time to deal with you. Why? Either you are ignorant (thus it wouldn't do me any good anyway) or you are an asshole who does this for kicks, in which case you'd tell me to FOAD. As such, talking to you is a waste of time.
You are the IT guy. Why would they listen to you? The probably already hate your guts for installing some other spite-ware or have them change their password every week. They dont listen to you and they dont like you (again, I'm not talking about you sir, but the SORBS filtering BOFH guy--ISP's are typically not the type to filter this way anyway). My calling them is just more ammo to go after you. It is politics my friend :-)
Funny enough, AOL has a 24 hour 1-800 number you can call to talk with the postmaster.
A lot of people have had their lives turn into a living hell because of some listing on SORBS. Thus if it wasn't me who chewed you out, somebody else probably would have :-)
Spamhaus's PBL?* I filter on that... the friggen ISP's make up most of that list. I'm pretty damn sure AOL and friends filter off that list too and my motto is "if AOL or Yahoo filters mail based on XYZ policy, I will too". Plus, you can get off that list on a web page.
It is SORBS that I have an issue with. SORBS was created out of pure spite. So my apologies random internet person :-)
* Excepting Godaddy who is fucking insane. Those assholes filter *URL's pointing to a PBL'd IP that are embedded in a message*!!! Worse, they dont tell you. Had fun learning that.
and you are asking if there exists products that don't outright block based on crap like SORBS. In which case "You" refers the general type of idiot who I've dealt with that does block based on SORBS.
Your parent is right. There does exist a set of clueless people who straight filter based on RBL's like SORBS. Sure, filter your home mail server any way you want, but the *second* you have third-party people using your system (or the second you run the mail server for a business), you should be outright fired for filtering based solely on something like SORBS.
That is because I dont waste my time calling you. I call your boss and your sales department. If you really are running a business mail server and filtering based on SORBS, you are basically clueless and I'll gain nothing talking to you Your sales staff though, I'm sure they'd be happy to know you are blocking my customers inquiries into your companies products. And I'm probably also sure that if you are the type who filters like that, they probably have a bunch of other issues with the way you run their systems and this just might be the straw that broke the camels back.
yet it doesn't work on any of the browsers in stalled on my computer.
And give them a message and screen shots of what your website would look like if they upgraded to a modern browser.
Do what I did on my website and detect when a user is on IE6 and give them a nice fat message saying "Upgrade you bozo. See these screenshots of how nice this site looks on a real website (links to screenshots)? You are missing out!".
Dont just drop the hacks, tell the IE6 users you are dropping the hacks and show them pictures of what they are missing out on!!
But you'd be a fool not to play the scam like everybody else. The rational choice for a person was to treat their home like an ATM, after it was a "sure bet" and if they didn't, they would regret it. Even if they knew it was a scam, they figured if they got screwed everybody was screwed so why not play?
In other words, good regulation can keep a bunch of individuals who are making rational decisions from screwing up the entire system. Sometimes what is right for one person is harmful to the whole. The lending crisis is an example of that.
I do find the idea that governance is something that gets discovered just like any other invention in history. It is almost as amusing as knowing the idea of "portfolio diversification" was a "discovery" made by some dude a while ago. I mean, it seems obvious that you should diversify your stock portfolio, but I guess before this guy came along nobody considered it. Democracy seems kind of obvious to me, but it took a while to get here.
So yeah, someday there will probably be some better form of government that will be "obvious" to those at the time. However right now we dont even know of its existence. Same as we didn't know the existence of portfolio diversification.
While any "western" democracy isn't perfect, I can't think any radically different system that would work better. Unless our technological changes affect our ability to survive or we somehow change basic human nature, I can't foresee any "massive revolution" that would lead to a completely different form of government. We've kind of figured out a good base system for governance and everything from now on is adjustments and refinements to the system.
Unless of course somebody hacked into Asus's website and added that link. You can tell it was hacked because if you play the video on itsbetterwithwindows.com frame by frame, there is one frame in the middle where if you squint you can see the reflection from a sign saying "p0wn3d by D4 Cr3w". A quick search of Google will turn up the fact that "D4 Cr3w" are the same folk who faked the moon landing in the 60's.
By the way, cattle mutilations are up.
...Forget what you were doing entirely and start making food or feeding the cat. I love that... going on an (important) mission only to get to the destination and do something completely different without even knowing I was forgetting to do something else. Then the significant other asks "did you complete $task" only to go "oh yeah... that whole thing".
Good times.
A common claim on Slashdot that always makes me laugh. Wonder who is paying the FSF shills to post on Slashdot?
But yeah, pretty childish, no?
The president sets the tone of the government. His or her attitude gets projected all the way down the food chain. In the person at the top of the government thinks government sucks, why should anybody below care about their job either?
Not really. I'd say the opposite in fact. Your fancy 1080p plasma TV is the most expensive monitor in your entire house. If anything, using a laptop to watch any kind of media is old-fashioned. The "hip" way hasn't fully been formed yet, but soon enough, I personally think your TV and something like an iphone will take the place of your laptop. Well, let me qualify that, it will replace your laptop for recreational use, not work use.
But if wanting to watch a video with several people at the same time without huddling around a tiny screen is old-fashioned, I guess that makes me old-fashioned too!